Dream on, Tre. Gray is hyped on the Corn. Local hacks out here were very impressed with him, and he lubbed him some Lincoln!
Of course, guys always have a boner for the latest place they've visited. Just don't be surprised if he ends up out here partying with ol' Zip Goshboots.

Dream on? You want me to post the direct quotes where Gray said MSU is his leader? So he enjoyed his visit, big deal. I'd enjoy all my visits too. Until he states differently, his leader is MSU. You're a Michigan fan that doesn't want to see him in green. It's great that you have an opinion, but it's a biased one with nothing backing it other than him saying he enjoyed his visit.

Sucks about OSU offering Fred Smith. I hope he thinks that through. Michigan and Michigan State both showed way more love and showed it much earlier. If I'm him, I'm going to the schools that wanted me the most. This is a rare case, I'd rather him go to UM than OSU at this point because I think it would be bullshit for a Michigan kid to go to OSU when his in-state schools showed him love first.

In case you're wondering, you've been kindof coming across like a dick on here lately. Glenn and I go at each other. It has nothing to do with you at all, yet you feel the need to fly in and defend Glenny like he can't defend himself and rip one of your boys for no reason at all.

The "LOL" was a response to Jickboy's joke that was thrown my way. Generally when somebody throws an inside joke your way, you respond. So you go out of your way to rip me for posting "LOL" and word hump Glenn while you're at it. Surprised we didn't hear more about his rhetoric. Not sure what your problem is.

Ok, since we absolutely must stay off topic from time to time, I quoted you with the intention of quoting your quote as well.
The old format used to do that. If I was calling you out, it was for inconsistancy. You hate on Glenn but then suck on your old high school boys if they do the same thing. That was my issue. A moronic fantasy football joke that belongs in the NFL forum is nice and all, but way off topic and could have been done in a PM. I don't have much of a problem with it, to be honest, unless you're going to criticize others.
It makes sense to you because you've known him a long time and it's funny. Well, since you've only seen Glenn's stuff in here, you know nothing about his posting style and how much legit stuff he can come with if he wants to. But he comes in here with inside jokes and you rip him. If it's playful, fine, but if you're getting bent out of shape on it, which you have, I'm calling it.
But I guess that's just me being a dick, right?

Once again, back on topic.
Good lord.

By the way, why does it have to be a bitter UM fan if someone says Gray might be heading to Nebraska?
You said yourself you were worried about them, and so what if he said MSU was his leader. Things change. Remember once upon a time UM was leading for Delvon Roe? Things change and it doesn't mean anyone is bitter. Personally, I think he'll still end up at MSU, but you can't just pretend he's going to hate everyone else that offers him and sets up visits.

Ok, since we absolutely must stay off topic from time to time, I quoted you with the intention of quoting your quote as well.
The old format used to do that. If I was calling you out, it was for inconsistancy. You hate on Glenn but then suck on your old high school boys if they do the same thing. That was my issue. A moronic fantasy football joke that belongs in the NFL forum is nice and all, but way off topic and could have been done in a PM. I don't have much of a problem with it, to be honest, unless you're going to criticize others.
It makes sense to you because you've known him a long time and it's funny. Well, since you've only seen Glenn's stuff in here, you know nothing about his posting style and how much legit stuff he can come with if he wants to. But he comes in here with inside jokes and you rip him. If it's playful, fine, but if you're getting bent out of shape on it, which you have, I'm calling it.
But I guess that's just me being a dick, right?

Once again, back on topic.
Good lord.

I rip Glenn for coming with absolutely no discussion posts whatsoever. He posts sarcastic jokes towards MSU or me, that's it. Everybody knows that. If he came with something decent once in awhile, it would be a different story. I believe I do post alot of discussion type stuff and throwing out one "LOL" post doesn't make me inconsisent. It was one post and you're going to "call me on it" ???

We have a free pass and understanding that we can rip each other and talk shit on WTF to get it out of our system when it comes to MSU-UM. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to rip my boys here. I'm also not going to jump into any of my boys battles and back somebody else that I don't even know if it's not in regards to MSU-UM. There have been plenty of times that I've witnessed Jethro arguments on here and agreed with the other guy or thought you were "inconsistent," yet I didn't jump into the conversation.

Posted by Steve T over at sportsinferno.com ... I agree with everything he points out..


Heading into the CFB season (training camps start in a couple weeks) Michigan State is beginning to lag behind in recruiting numbers and talent. The trend in football recruiting is for classes to fill up earlier and earlier, five years ago it was unheard of for Notre Dame to have 19 commitments or Michigan to have 11 at this point in the process. Currently, Michigan State has the least number of commits and three-star or higher commits in the Big Ten (all star ratings from Scout.) Here are the numbers:

Team - total commits - 3 star or higher
Illinois-8-5
Indiana-12-3
Iowa-7-3
Michigan-11-11
Michigan State-3-1
Minnesota-10-5
Northwestern-8-2
Ohio State-9-9
Penn State-4-4
Purdue-10-4
Wisconsin-18-10

As you can see every Big Ten team except Penn State has more than double the number of commits of MSU. The difference with Penn State is that they are involved with far more top prospects (3 star or higher) than Michigan State and they had 19 top commits last year to MSU's nine. Another interesting comparison is Michigan State to Minnesota, both of whom hired new coaches over the offseason. Minnesota doesn't have any clear advantages over MSU in facilities, tradition, etc. but they have managed to get five three-stars (including one from California and Texas.) There is no reason for Minnesota to out recruit MSU. Taking a look at the national numbers would probably be even worse for MSU as many of the southern schools fill up their classes even earlier than Big Ten schools.

Obviously, there is still time for Dantonio to fill out this class with higly touted prospects but it can no longer be said 'it is early' in the recruiting process. Maybe in February this post will look stupid but MSU has a lot of ground to make up to get out of the cellar of Big Ten recruiting.

Demens is on the verge of getting a UM offer.

Could make things interesting for Gray. See how this plays out. Again, seems like Nebraska is on top right now.

Demens is on the verge of getting a UM offer.

Could make things interesting for Gray. See how this plays out. Again, seems like Nebraska is on top right now.

If they offer this late, I'd say screw off. They had an opportunity at camp and they didn't offer.

Once again, a Michigan fan saying Nebraska is on top. I'm not saying they won't go there, but why the hell would you assume they're on top when both Gray and Demens have said MSU is on top? I already know the answer.

I agree with Tommy's post. I'm getting really pissed off. We had momentum when Hoover commited. They needed to be a little more pushy to get some more commitments at that time. 3 Commits? It's almost a panic type of situation.

I agree that the offer to Demens is too little too late. I would imagine he would see right through it - just a hunch though.
I think he might be willing to take an official there, but I have a feeling he would just be going through the motions and they wouldn't ever be a legit player for his services.
I've been wrong plenty of times before and anything can happen, but I think it will still be a package deal for Gray and Demens and it's between MSU and Nebraska.
Nebraska has nothing. Been there, worst state in the union. (ok, that's a bit much)
They have a legacy and they may be able to make some promises. They put guys in the NFL and if they roll out the red carpet they could make it interesting, but it certainly won't be easy to beat out the school close to home. Slight advantage at this point, IMO = MSU.

Yet, once again, another example of people that seemingly could have/should have committed weeks ago. (along with Smith, Perry, McGuffie, etc.)

Fact of the matter is that MSU is "in the conversation" and in most instances the top 2 or 3 for many outstanding recruits. Smith, Gray, Demens (WAS offered last night by A2), Perry, Pannel, Marquise Gray, the QB from Indiana as well as a couple of solid recruits from Texas, Pa. and Jersey. Dantonio is working it.

That said, this is a process. MSU was the shits last year and they are trying to rebuild the program. I have to think that these kids must employ a "wait & see" attitude or at least a put a whole lot thought before they pull the trigger on MSU. This is a decision that they will live with for the next 4-5 years. Let's be honest. Some might look at this as signing on for the Alamo for fucks sake. I think the fact that MSU is still prominent in their final selection speaks volumes. It ain't gonna' be easy. If MSU gets 3 of the previous mentioned it would be huge. Little by little the ranks will fill in.

Hey I'm with you Tre. This is very trying on what little patience I possess but I get that it's all uphill.

Is it possible that these kids are just enjoying all the attention and are trying to drag this out to keep their names out there?

I think it's an ego trip, sure. The only problem comes when it influences who might be playing along side you. The player with the team in mind would want to commit earlier and help recruit solid teammates. Outside of selfish ego tripping, the other factors would be truly being torn over a decision but not letting on, or leaving yourself out there for a better offer.

My thing is, if you've had a clear favorite through all or most of the process, and a good idea of who might be offering, why not commit?

Here is what Demens said just prior to getting his Michigan offer-

"This affects everything," said Demens. "It definitely is going to make my decision tougher, but then again I have Michigan on my radar right now. They are definitely moving to the top of my list, somewhere up there. The chance to conversate with the coaches, that's going to be huge in my decision.

Maybe it's just talk, but that sounds pretty positive from a U-M perspective. I still think it's too little too late, but who knows.

Fact of the matter is that MSU is "in the conversation" and in most instances the top 2 or 3 for many outstanding recruits. Smith, Gray, Demens (WAS offered last night by A2), Perry, Pannel, Marquise Gray, the QB from Indiana as well as a couple of solid recruits from Texas, Pa. and Jersey. Dantonio is working it.

That said, this is a process. MSU was the shits last year and they are trying to rebuild the program. I have to think that these kids must employ a "wait & see" attitude or at least a put a whole lot thought before they pull the trigger on MSU. This is a decision that they will live with for the next 4-5 years. Let's be honest. Some might look at this as signing on for the Alamo for fucks sake. I think the fact that MSU is still prominent in their final selection speaks volumes. It ain't gonna' be easy. If MSU gets 3 of the previous mentioned it would be huge. Little by little the ranks will fill in.

Hey I'm with you Tre. This is very trying on what little patience I possess but I get that it's all uphill.

Hip, there were a lot of big ten teams in the shits last year...It is a bad showing that as of right now MSU is being out recruited by every team in the big ten. There is no excuse for that...That wait and see thing is an excuse when teams like Illinois and Indiana and Northwestern have a better recruiting class right now..

With that said, I still believe Dantonio will be fine. But, no matter what you MSU guys say. John L would have a better class right now...

How about this direct quote Mr. Fucking know it all Tre.

"I really can't say right now who's on top. I'm not too sure. After this visit to Nebraska, I might be a little more ready to name a leader. It was Michigan State, but then Michigan stepped up and I haven't been to Nebraska yet. Right now they're all equal." - Demens

How about this quote from Gray.

“I think it has (changed) in the sense where everybody is even,” Gray said. “I haven’t sat down like I wanted to and really reflected on it yet. That’s one of the things I’m going to do now. I leave for Costa Rica on Sunday (yesterday…July 22nd) and I don’t come back until the 30th. No coaches can contact me. I’ll be able to sit down and just reflect on everything that is going on in recruiting.”

Here is another from Gray.

“It definitely was the best visit that I have taken to any college. I was just the way that everything went. Louisville and Michigan State were good, but Nebraska was the best.”

MSU WAS the leader 2 weeks ago.

Just because I am a Michigan fan does not mean I am bitter.

Michigan is going to land a better RB this coming Sunday. Also, the fact that we are not talking about BBall, but football, what exactly should I be bitter towards when it comes to MSU football?

So again tell me by looking at those direct quotes attributed to Gray that one would think that maybe just maybe Nebraska could be in the lead right now?

Please show me something within the last week that counters what I posted above, which is all within the last 5 days.

I totally disagree and I was a staunch "Cowboy" supporter. Smith, once he found out that U-M offered, was GONZO. Never took them on head to head. Name a recruit in the last 3-4 years MSU got away from A2. There may be 1 or 2 at the most. I just can't name them.

Illinois' Zook may be the best recruiter in the college game. Add the fact that he hired Reggie Mitchell another great recruiter away from MSU and you see why they are getting kids left and right. If you can sell a kid that fucking cornfield and the total absence of anything resembling on the field success in recent history on top of it you are being grossly underpaid and in the wrong field. You need to work for Donald Trump.

I don't know that MSU wants some of the kids that Indiana OR Cheezitz has verballed. Seriously, not at this point.

It's all about the "Brand I.D." for anyone puzzled by the lack of bodies lined up to verbal in East Lansing. I mean really. Why the fuck would you? Dantonio is their 5th coach in 14 years. They are 14-27 in the Big 10 in the last 5 years. 1-7 last year. They have been #2 in the State of Michigan for the last 40 years. Gee, I'm 17 and I'm hot shit. Where do I sign??

It's a cheap ploy but the best example I can give, and there are no shots intended here, but look at A2 vs. MSU in hoop recruiting. Who the fuck in their right mind is going to U-M when Izzo wants him? One in 25? Probably just about the same ratio that will sign with MSU over U-M.

Unless Dantonio does one of the best sales jobs since the Kirby Vacuum and gets a majority of those in state studs like say Gray, Demens and Smith? This one is going to be a steep climb out of a dark hole.

I'm not discouraged but a realist and I'll be rooting him in every step of the way.

Again, I disagree Hip..I dont care if Zook is a great recruiter. The facilities Suck. The program is awful..MSU is better in both points..Dantonio should have a nice base already in Ohio since he was the D-coordinator at OSU and HC at Cincy...Yet he has pulled what from Ohio? You have kids in Michigan who should have committed to them now re-considering their feelings about MSU for some reason in Gray, Demens, and Smith.

Minnesota has a new coach as well with the worst facilities in the big ten, bar none. Yet they are out recruiting MSU and that should NOT happen..

I also believe,even though it may never be proven, that when Dantonio pulled the scholly from C.Johnson it may have hurt the recruiting process on some level. I know coaches do that all the time..But with someone as talented as Johnson, you dont see that much..

I hope none of you Spartan fans are taking this as me bashing MSU because im not..Im pointing out that I believe Dantonio is doing a very poor job of recruiting when I know he is better than he is showing

If there is such a thing as a "virtual bitch slap" I think Art's last two posts are a good example of it.

"Minnesota has a new coach as well with the worst facilities in the big ten, bar none. Yet they are out recruiting MSU and that should NOT happen.."

Minny-9 recruits. 5-3 *'s. 3- 2*'s. 1-4*.Pretty good especially as you pointed out, that it's Minny.

Indiana- 7 recruits all 2*'s. I'm thinking going after the likes of guys like Gray, Demens et al will bear more fruit.

Cheezitz- 10 kids- 9- 3*'s and 1-4*. Eh...this ain't blowing my doors off.

Purdoo- 10 kids. 5-3*'s and 5-2*'s.

It's July. The coaches were on vacay last week with no contact. MSU with 2-3*s and 1-4* is definitely slow out of the gate. However if they land a third of the guys they are in on I think they heal up quick. I guess I'm just not ready for the garden hose in the exhaust pipe in the closed garage just yet.

If Coach D is not able to land 2 out of 3 of Demens, Gray and Smith.....Coach D is in serious trouble for the year.

I do not blame him for the whole C. Johnson thing. Mrs. JOhnson is a nutjob and I wouldnt want to have to put up with her for a whole season.

If Coach D is not able to land 2 out of 3 of Demens, Gray and Smith.....Coach D is in serious trouble for the year.

I do not blame him for the whole C. Johnson thing. Mrs. JOhnson is a nutjob and I wouldnt want to have to put up with her for a whole season.

C'mon. The guy should have the right to re-evaluate offers out there from the previous regime. He's the one that is going to work with them for the next 4-5 years. If Corey doesn't understand this good luck at Florida or wherever.

If Coach D is not able to land 2 out of 3 of Demens, Gray and Smith.....Coach D is in serious trouble for the year.

I do not blame him for the whole C. Johnson thing. Mrs. JOhnson is a nutjob and I wouldnt want to have to put up with her for a whole season.

That is not why the scholly was pulled...He wanted to re-evaluate the recruits..He pulled Johnsons and then re offered..that is bs. He should not have pulled it in the first place..

C'mon. The guy should have the right to re-evaluate offers out there from the previous regime. He's the one that is going to work with them for the next 4-5 years. If Corey doesn't understand this good luck at Florida or wherever.

But he did not pull schollys from any other athlete. Bad move by Danotnio

And Indiana has 3, 3 star recruits according to scout.com

I am not saying he doesnt have the right to reevaluate.

I was doing a little tongue in cheek with regards to Mrs. Johnson.

Anyways, at least coach d is a better coach than smith with x's and o's....isnt he?

I am not saying he doesnt have the right to reevaluate.

I was doing a little tongue in cheek with regards to Mrs. Johnson.

Anyways, at least coach d is a better coach than smith with x's and o's....isnt he?

Hands down! Like I have said before. This is a good pick up for MSU

But he did not pull schollys from any other athlete. Bad move by Danotnio

And Indiana has 3, 3 star recruits according to scout.com
I'm a Rivals guy. Those are all their numbers.

But he did not pull schollys from any other athlete. Bad move by Danotnio

And Indiana has 3, 3 star recruits according to scout.com

I don't think that is accurate. Budnaro (sp) the OL from Grand Rapids was pulled. Michael Jordan was re-evaluated. His was not a solid offer as it hinged on classroom performance. Can you site examples?

I don't think that is accurate. Budnaro (sp) the OL from Grand Rapids was pulled. Michael Jordan was re-evaluated. His was not a solid offer as it hinged on classroom performance. Can you site examples?

Your right on the kid from EGR.. I forgot about him..Michael Jordan was re evaluated but never had his scholly pulled before re evaluating him. Johnson did

Your right on the kid from EGR.. I forgot about him..Michael Jordan was re evaluated but never had his scholly pulled before re evaluating him. Johnson did

I don't think there was a scholly (or verbal) to be revoked as any offer had conditions in the classroom to be met before the offer was in place in Jordans case. John L. stashed him in Boo-Hoo, Az. Jordan looked long and hard at A&M before selecting MSU in the 11th hour. This one though is probably splitting hairs. Plus Jordan, as a DL, is needed a little more than Corey at this point.I believe he has 4 to play 3.

I see no tactical error in re-evaluating Corey. I'd bet money Johnson got a phone call with a "I hope you understand I'm new here and we're starting with a clean slate. I need to look at the roster and film and chart out priorities as to the programs particular needs. I know you are an excellent prospect and there is no reason to believe the offer won't be put back on the table. Hopefully you can understand where I'm coming from....blah x3" Big fucking deal. The kid was in the middle of his junior year of high school. It wasn't like they hung him out to dry. Hey as Nichol showed. It slices both ways. Should he BLOW UP this year who's to say he would have held up his end. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

Well, I will say this, if Dantonio doesn`t pull in Gray after the great start with him, that will definitely not bode well. We have to wait and see, but it sure seems MSU has lost ground on some kids that seemed fairly wrapped up.

...is pondering life presently on the beach in Costa Rica. Hopefully he picked the Pacific side. If he went to the Atlantic side he is definitely going to Nebraska because his taste is up his ass. Nebraska? At the risk of offending the inimitable Zip Goshboots, I've been all the way to Lincoln. You gotta' be shittin' me.

...is pondering life presently on the beach in Costa Rica. Hopefully he picked the Pacific side. If he went to the Atlantic side he is definitely going to Nebraska because his taste is up his ass. Nebraska? At the risk of offending the inimitable Zip Goshboots, I've been all the way to Lincoln. You gotta' be shittin' me.
Agreed. From North Dakota to the panhandle of Texas, that part of the US is one you drive through at night with the cruise-control set at 85 mph.

I'm gonna say this, recruiting is like a roller coaster. For a few weeks, you'll be down in the dumps (Jethro) because things aren't going well. Few weeks later, you'll be on top of the world with big commitments. I'm on the bottom of the slope right now, but I believe in Dantonio.

I say in the end, Jonas Gray is the prized recruit that jump starts Michigan State football.

I'm gonna say this, recruiting is like a roller coaster. For a few weeks, you'll be down in the dumps (Jethro) because things aren't going well. Few weeks later, you'll be on top of the world with big commitments. I'm on the bottom of the slope right now, but I believe in Dantonio.

I say in the end, Jonas Gray is the prized recruit that jump starts Michigan State football.

I hope your right. Even if it isn't Gray a couple anyway from all those guys would make me feel better.

I'm gonna say this, recruiting is like a roller coaster. For a few weeks, you'll be down in the dumps (Jethro) because things aren't going well. Few weeks later, you'll be on top of the world with big commitments. I'm on the bottom of the slope right now, but I believe in Dantonio.

I say in the end, Jonas Gray is the prized recruit that jump starts Michigan State football.
I gotta tell ya, I`m kind of banking on Gray. The way the kid was talking about MSU and his relationship with Ringer was sounding real solid. Just the kind of stuff you want to hear from a top recruit during a rebuilding year.

If Gray doesn`t come around I don`t know whether to blame Dantonio or the kid. It just seems things have gotten so false, so insubstantial. I know, the kids have to do whats best for them, but damn, its just such a filthy game nowadays . It just seems like a bunch of prostituted beef cattle looking for the most glamour. I don`t think its good for anybody anymore. It just sucks. Its such a big-money circus now that it just sucks. Its bad for the kids, its bad for the universities, its bad for everybody involved. Soon, the college game will be as filthy as the pros. What the hell happened?

Most of college BBAll is as dirty as it gets. Football is not far behind.

Especially with the Arthur Brown's of this world and his "agent".

I gotta tell ya, I`m kind of banking on Gray. The way the kid was talking about MSU and his relationship with Ringer was sounding real solid. Just the kind of stuff you want to hear from a top recruit during a rebuilding year.

If Gray doesn`t come around I don`t know whether to blame Dantonio or the kid. It just seems things have gotten so false, so insubstantial. I know, the kids have to do whats best for them, but damn, its just such a filthy game nowadays . It just seems like a bunch of prostituted beef cattle looking for the most glamour. I don`t think its good for anybody anymore. It just sucks. Its such a big-money circus now that it just sucks. Its bad for the kids, its bad for the universities, its bad for everybody involved. Soon, the college game will be as filthy as the pros. What the hell happened?

I felt and was told the same about Ronald Johnson as well...The last I heard from the horses mouth was that Gray was going to state..I have not been in the loop of that camp or people since then. It has been a quiet which is something that was not being done weeks ago.. I really hope State lands him..Im still leaning that way..But how everything is now quiet is a little weird..

Isn't this the dead period where coaches usually take a short vacation for camp begins? That might have something to do with it.

Gray is in Costa Rica so it is going to be very quiet.

Fred Smith made it to AA today and he brought with him a "ton" of family.

Nebraska got it's 5th commit at LB...you would think the slots for that position are all filled there. I would assume that Nebraska is getting less attractive to Demens if he still stays with a longer commit date.

Of Nebraska's LB commits, only one is ranked as highly as Demens and that's Compton, who plays inside while Demens is listed as an OLB. I doubt Demens is concerned about the other guys committed. They're called backups. Don't rule out position changes for some of them either.
Realistically, looking at who they have committed at LB, I would expect one could be converted to FB and at least one other is signed with the intention of being pretty much a special teams guy.
By the way, according to Rivals they only have 4 LB right now. The 5th must be a guy they have listed as an athlete.

If I had to choose a list just from everything I have heard for where everyone is going this is what I would guess as of right now.

F. Smith to MSU
Perry to UM
Demens to UM
Gray to Neb

That is just from things I have read recently and if they were going to choose yesterday.

BTW McGuffie announcing to tonight on the Houston TV station at 10:30 CST, I believe.

Gray and Demens are a packaged deal. I know this could change i guess, but once again, until they've stated otherwise, I'm going to believe the words from the horses mouth over opinions on recruiting boards, etc.

I think the Fred Smith decision could be major for MSU from a recruiting standpoint. It would make them hot again and be proof to other recruits that other big name guys also believe in Dantonio. If Smith is a Spartan, I'll be even more confident in Gray and Demens putting a Spartan helmet on.

So you finally believe me when I say that MSU is not the leader for Gray and Demens? Or are you only going to believe stuff that fits what you want to believe.

.....to JoPa. Ugh!!

So you finally believe me when I say that MSU is not the leader for Gray and Demens? Or are you only going to believe stuff that fits what you want to believe.

I'm going to believe what actual recruits say, not what "Art" says. Direct quotes fit into "what I want to believe." Here is a direct quote from Kenny Demens TODAY:

"My top schools are Nebraska, Michigan State, Michigan, West Virginia, Louisville and Wisconsin. Right now, Nebraska and Michigan State have the edge. Michigan State is probably number one just because I've been up there and have seen everything but Nebraska would be a close number two. Those two schools are definitely at the head of the list."

Demens said he's gotten to develop good relationships with some of the various coaching staffs who have been recruiting him over the last several weeks and months. He admitted, however, its hard to beat the bond he's developed with the Michigan State coaches.

"I probably have the best relationship with the Michigan State staff," Demens said. "I was on their radar way back last February and have been up there more than anywhere. From the head coach to their offensive coordinator to all of their assistants, I feel like I get along with them all really well."

Care to comment Art? Jonas did say Nebraska was the best college he's ever seen. However, he was talking about the appearance. He did say he was very comfortable. BUT, he did not say his leader (Michigan State) which he named about a month ago has changed. After seeing direct quotes, I'm thinking Art is the one looking for things that fit into what he wants to believe.

Care to bold the part that says "just because I've been up there and have seen everything"? Keep in mind he's on his way to Nebraska, a school he's never visited, and yet they're a close number 2. Never been there and already a close #2? How is that possible? Not the type of lead I would be bragging about.
Meanwhile, when it's this close and given what Gray said, you're still going into all this just to prove that Michigan fans are bitter and that's the reason they predict that Nebraska may be the team to beat?

Don't confuse this with me standing up for Art. I realized big boys can fight their own battles and I've proven my point. THIS fight is to end the ridiculousness of thinking Michigan fans want to make it out that State will lose everyone to another school, just because they aren't going to Michigan. Seriously, I think we have other things, like feeling our own recruits, to do with our time than to make up stories about your recruits. They day comes when you yourself substantiate just how close Nebraska is for these guys and because we think they may be the team to beat, seeing as they're already a close 2nd without even a visit, now we're bitter? Please.

I asked all along for new quotes where Demens said MSU was still his leader. Congrats on finding them. BTW what site is that quote from?

I already said I expect F. Smith to head to MSU, so it is not like I am saying all the playes MSU has pinned their hope to are going to get away.

I just put percentages from what I have been hearing. It makes no difference where Gray or Demens goes if it is not to UM. I just posting what I have been hearing.

JB Fitzgerald is coming to UM with the ways things look right now.

He doesnt want to announce until his B-Day (Nov 13), but he will let the school know beforehand. Down to Rutgers, Florida and UM and UM has been his stated leader. He should play Mike.

Care to bold the part that says "just because I've been up there and have seen everything"? Keep in mind he's on his way to Nebraska, a school he's never visited, and yet they're a close number 2. Never been there and already a close #2? How is that possible? Not the type of lead I would be bragging about.
Meanwhile, when it's this close and given what Gray said, you're still going into all this just to prove that Michigan fans are bitter and that's the reason they predict that Nebraska may be the team to beat?


I wasn't posting those quotes to brag about a lead. I also never said Demens or Gray would for sure not go to Nebraska. What I was arguing with was Michigan fans making the statement that Nebraska was the leader for both when it was absolutely not true. Could it be true in the future? Yup. True now? No, and I proved that with quotes. The fact that UM fans would say Nebraska is the leader when the actual recruit himself said that they are not is PURE BIAS.

I asked all along for new quotes where Demens said MSU was still his leader. Congrats on finding them. BTW what site is that quote from?

I already said I expect F. Smith to head to MSU, so it is not like I am saying all the playes MSU has pinned their hope to are going to get away.

I just put percentages from what I have been hearing. It makes no difference where Gray or Demens goes if it is not to UM. I just posting what I have been hearing.

Had you said, I believe this is where they will go, I wouldn't have argued. In previous posts, you said Nebraska was the leader. Zip chimed in with "Dream on Tre" when I said MSU was the leader. That was my only beef.

The quotes came from Rivals insider.

JB Fitzgerald is coming to UM with the ways things look right now.

He doesnt want to announce until his B-Day (Nov 13), but he will let the school know beforehand. Down to Rutgers, Florida and UM and UM has been his stated leader. He should play Mike.

So where would that leave things with Hale and Saddler?

Can you point me out where I said Nebraska was on top.

I do recall saying, it seems like Nebraska was on top....seems, which doesnt necessarily make it so. It seems to you that Nebraska is not on top.

I never said that Nebraska led for Demens. I posted a direct quote from him on what he said. He said they were equal.

I cannot find any quote by me saying flat out that Nebraska was leading for either.

Hale has OSU on top. That one will have a long way to play out. There are some who really think they are a package deal, but I will believe in packages when I see them.

I tend to believe in package deals when there are multiple links. The fact that they're teammates, friends, AND cousins leads me to believe they would be willing to settle on the same school, as long as they felt like one wasn't holding the other back. Seeing that they have multiple great schools in common on their lists, I figured they truly would be a package.

I'm inclined to believe in Gray and Demens as a package also, but maybe I'm just naive on the whole thing.

Were Woodley and Jackson truly a package, or was that just a convenient story? I'm not trying to sound cynical, I'm truly wondering. I always figured they were because it didn't make sense for UM to offer Jackson even though he was highly rated, and there was so much talk that they wanted him as a DB but gave him the shot to earn time at RB just to make him happy and secure Woodley, the real prize.

When is Fred Smith announcing?

When is Fred Smith announcing?

Was supposed to be Sunday, August 5 at 6:00, but read what he said after his recent U-M visit.

"I can honestly say before my visit I was leaning towards Michigan State, but after this visit, I need to take this into consideration and think some more. I think they have pulled even as of now," said Smith "I was planning on making the decision sometime this week, but I took that last visit and I think it's going to take me a little more time."

He was this Saturday and if he had gone ahead with that, it would have been MSU for sure.

Now I dont know what the plan is except before his season starts.

He had like 10-15 family members go with him to AA and they are all big Wolverine fans, which always helps.

They laid it on him.

I still say he ends up at MSU, but this gave him pause.

Other are much more optimistic on him being Blue than I am.

According to Scout, Smith told them that he got a call from McGuffie recruiting him to UM.
Those are the type of calls Gray would be making for MSU if he had committed yet.

Not sure how much of a factor these things are, but I'll say this. People think Smith wouldn't come to UM because of Stonum. Stonum and McGuffie are boys. Now McGuffie is calling Smith telling him not to worry about it. Alexander, Hayes, Howard....Terrell, Walker, Edwards, Avant, Manningham, Arrington. Great UM WR's have shared the field and gotten single coverage because of it.

By the way, it's a shame McGuffie couldn't talk one of his other boys into joining him. He and JB Shugarts (stud OL and OSU commit) and very good friends. That would have made this OL class insanely good. Shugarts is the #13 OT and had Michigan among his top 10, though they didn't make his top 5.

This is going to piss some people off, but oh well.

Words from Mr. McGuffie to Mr. Smith.

"Fred -- I just told him that that was a second-tier school he was looking at in Michigan State! Why would he want to go there -- when Michigan is the school that wins in football! It was just in good fun."

I guarantee Fred Smith goes to Michigan. No doubt in my mind.

I bleed green so much. Just want to see a change sooooo freaking bad. Have been just a die-hard loyal fan that can't even give up last year (I was close, real close) as I stood on the Spartan ledge in wake of the ND debacle. But it just freaking sucks. Which is why I started the other thread. I just don't think it's freaking possible to build a power out of nothing.

Dantonio gets in good with these kids, shoots right to the top of their list, but in the end, they choose schools that have won for 40-50 years. I would too. Don't blame them. I just want to see change so bad, but I can't stay optimistic as the rich get richer and the Spartans just can't close out on Smith, Gray, Demens, and co.

When you are a Braylon fan. The school you rooted for gives his number and top priority to somebody else. Yet, you still will go there. There is no hope.

Flip flop everything I said. I guarantee Smith goes Blue and Gray and Demens will jump on the cornstalk or some shit too. HUGE SIGH

I am not with you on this one Tre. I still see Smith going Green.

Gray and Demens....well I see Gray going Green or Red, but Demens could end up blue, as could Perry.

Cheer up Tre at least you still got BBall. I would trade Smith, Demens and Gray for a chance for UM to go to the tourney all 4 years those kids would be at state.

I still think Smith will be Green too. Like I mentioned in the other thread, if you hire the right coach, and he's in for the long haul, I think you can build something, and I think Dantonio is that kind of guy.

I am not with you on this one Tre. I still see Smith going Green.

Gray and Demens....well I see Gray going Green or Red, but Demens could end up blue, as could Perry.

Cheer up Tre at least you still got BBall. I would trade Smith, Demens and Gray for a chance for UM to go to the tourney all 4 years those kids would be at state.

I'm trying to cheer up man and no doubt I love my bball. I just want a taste of football success. 26 years wears on ya man. I've experienced so little success as a Spartan Football fan, I just need some optimism. I no doubt believe in Dantonio and the way he's doing things, but you need bullets to win the war. Smith would be a big bullet, not holding my breath.

Early in the process, Smith said his mother had talked about him going to Michigan ever since he was a boy. Both of his parents' affinity for the Wolverines appears to still be quite strong.

"My parents really like Michigan," Smith said. "She's always been a Michigan fan. He always loved Michigan because of the academics and thinks it's a great opportunity."

He's so going to Michigan. Fan his whole life and his parents totally want him to go there.

Rumors are out there that Mark Ingram commited to MSU. I really want this kid, it would be a quality pickup. Pannel is also holding off his announcement a bit. Sounds like many of these kids are wavering hard between MSU and UM. Dantonio just needs one to pick the Spartans first and I think that would give others the confidence to make the bold move and go with the up and coming program rather than the established power.

I cannot believe Pannel goes to UM even though he said UM pulled even with PSU and MSU.

I dont know what is going on there. He doesnt really have us excited at the Scout board, but who knows.

I cannot believe Pannel goes to UM even though he said UM pulled even with PSU and MSU.

I dont know what is going on there. He doesnt really have us excited at the Scout board, but who knows.

The thing about the McGuffie announcement is that it gets other recruits excited. Just look how since then Fred Smith said UM pulled even with MSU and how Pannel said that UM pulled even with MSU as well. Just goes to show how important a commitment from a big name would play a big part in MSU's class. This is absolutely the most critical time right now for MSU in recruiting (these next couple of weeks). I'll remain skeptical. Ingram, and Smith or Pannel might change my attitude a bit.

Gray is off the board for UM now (I would guess).

They picked up a committment from RB Mike Cox.

Not going to go over well with some of you, but he is the big back UM likes when taking a guy like McGuffie.

BTW dont let the 1* fool ya. It just means he has yet to be evaluated.

So Gray looks Red or Green at this point.

Unless Cox is coming in as a LB or athlete.

He did have offers from BC and Maryland. PSU was hot on him, but it looks like Shaw to PSU, he was the other guy in the running for the last RB slot.

I got his measurables.

6' and 205.

He has been timed at 4.47 in the 40-yard dash and 4.40 in the short shuttle. He also boasts a 36-inch vertical leap and 10-foot-4 broad jump.

Gray is off the board for UM now (I would guess).

They picked up a committment from RB Mike Cox.

Not going to go over well with some of you, but he is the big back UM likes when taking a guy like McGuffie.

BTW dont let the 1* fool ya. It just means he has yet to be evaluated.

So Gray looks Red or Green at this point.

Unless Cox is coming in as a LB or athlete.

He did have offers from BC and Maryland. PSU was hot on him, but it looks like Shaw to PSU, he was the other guy in the running for the last RB slot.

IMO, Gray was never ever going to go to Michigan. I think he was bitter that they showed no love and he has spoken about the fact that he'd love to come in and start as a sophmore for MSU, with McGuffie a done deal for awhile, no way he was considering them.

Man, I want Gray so bad. This is the most I've wanted a football recruit in years.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about Mike Cox (say it out loud and laugh).

Looks like he has ability and freakish athleticism, so I'm thinking he has no rating because he's from Connecticut. Scout calls him one of the hottest RB's in the nation right now, but I think many of us are tired of how easily recruiting places throw phrases like that around. I wasn't really expecting any other big name RB to commit at this point anyhow. Meaning people can formally (if they hadn't already) cross UM off the list for Darrell Scott, Gray, and others. They weren't going to happen, but were still on some lists.

Next item - now that McGuffie has put in his phone calls, Mallett is getting after it. Apparently HE followed up Sam's call to Fred Smith with one of his own and he and Smith got along very well. If those two phone calls don't get it done, I'm not sure if anything will. Ok, well, there's two more phone calls that could make it happen - Braylon Edwards and Texas call #3, Stonum. Braylon has been the guys hero and a nice nudge could help. As for Stonum, if he calls and says "Bro, do you have any idea the kind of tandem we could be? I dare opposing DB's to challenge us! At State, you would be getting double and triple teamed all over the place, but here we can get single coverage all day. If they double me, you've got one on one and you're taking it to the house. If they double you, it opens things up for me or Sam. They can't double anybody in this offense if you commit! You'll have a highlight reel 10 hours long and someday we'll be wanting to play together in the League!"
I think a reach out from Stonum would be huge!
However, I doubt there will be any more surprise calls and I'm guessing he knows where he's going and not much can change it now - unless he's leaning toward UM and State quickly picks up 4-5 instate commits before Smith announces.

It would be a recruiting violation if Braylon called Smith. But I get your point.

I am feeling slightly better about this after reading the Mallet talked to Smith, but still think he goes to State.

So what exactly can alumni do? I know I read all the time about basketball programs where big name alum play in a pickup game with recruits, and you KNOW some of the things that will be said on the court. Braylon is supposedly mentoring Smith and working out with him, so why is that ok and advising him during those workouts that he should go to UM would not be?

There's so much gray area in recruiting.

Couple things.

Smith announcing Sunday at 6 p.m.

Alumi cannot instigate the contact. The player could call Braylon and it would be fine no problems. Like a pickup game. Smith instigated the work outs with Braylon.

More info:

Gray is announcing on Friday. I am hearing he is going to Nebraska.

Smith looks like my feeling was wrong and it is looking much better that he comes to AA.

Just to clarify - are you hearing Gray to Nebraska, assuming they're his leader, hearing it from his own mouth, guessing, going on a hunch, or what?

I just want to avoid three pages of logistics following a 3 line post.
(intended for laughter, though people pissed at the notion that Gray might possibly go elsewhere - which I'm not stating as a fact but rather a possiblity - might also be pissed at my sarcasm)

Couple things.

Smith announcing Sunday at 6 p.m.

Alumi cannot instigate the contact. The player could call Braylon and it would be fine no problems. Like a pickup game. Smith instigated the work outs with Braylon.

This Sunday announcement isn't going to get postponed a week at a time for 3 weeks, is it?

The Smith announcement was said to Sam directly from Smith's mouth. He said he was having a family dinner to put the final touches on his decision and that he would annouce at Southeastern Sunday at 6 p.m. Talking to family is never a bad thing. Mods are extremely confident about Smith.

Another Mod seems to think that Gray is going to Nebraska. I wouldnt be shocked if he picked MSU, but right now word is that he is leaning to Nebraska.

Here's what I know. Nebraska's site on Rivals has Gray as their lead story right now, with Demens as the #2 story. State's site has Smith as the #3 story, with zero mentioned of Gray or Demens. UM has Demens as the #2 story, with an article mentioning both Smith and Gray #3.

Based on that, it looks (simply in my opinion alone) like a good time to be a Cornhusker.

Moving on to another area, I think it's time UM looks at the other side of the ball a bit. Of their 13 commits so far, 10 are on the offensive side. So, in the event they get a commit from Smith, it's time to call the O good and put huge efforts on getting some defensive help.

Guys like Jon Major, Will Hill, Kavario Middleton and JB Fitzgerald would help a ton. However, UM faces some serious competition for all these guys and geography isn't doing a thing to help their chances.

But here it is - if UM grabs 3 of the 4 of those guys they're a lock for a top 5 class and I'll be on record guaranteeing at least 1 NC.

Wel let me get done with more disappointing news so far regarding MSU and then we can move to UM D.

Pannell is said to be leaning towards PSU.

If Jonas goes Red this Friday execpt Demens to follow, even though Demens mom likes UM.

Ok now to UM D. Will Hill likes Florida a lot right now. See where that goes.

We made John Major's final 7. Lets see if we make the final 5.

Middleton likes UM a lot and if he leaves the NW he will come to UM.

JB is coming to UM.

All this information is per the mods at Scout site.

Gray to Nebraska.
Demens to Nebraska.
Smith to UM.

Put all your money on it. Every last RED cent. Done deal. "Bank on it bitches."





p.s.-Dantonio is doing a great job recruiting! The whole lets bring in nobody plan seems to be working out beautifully. I've got this tune in my head sung by an old honky tonk with a harmonica. It goes a little something like this...I hope you can hear it too. "I've been stuck in the fucking ceeeeeeeeeelar all of my damn life. I've been stuck in the fuuuuuuuuuuucking ceeeeeeeeeeelar I just wish this program would die."

Dantonio is a tool, I don't know why everybodys banking on this guy to be the next Nick Saban, isn't that what all you little Sparty's said about JLS & Bobby?? I'll believe it when I see it, right now you'll be lucky to make it to a bowl game next year...even with your almighty 3 star top incoming frosh Antonio Jeremiah

From what Bucknuts that come on to premium say about Coach D is he is a great X and O guy, but he needs to bring in a guy like Corwin Brown, because Coach D can turn recruits off with his gruff and to the point demeanor. Coach Carr is one of the few like Bo that could pull stuff like that off.

Then again Carr has got some good recruiters around him and give it up for Singletary. He is doing a great job. He is one reason why you hearing about guys like Mallett doing a bang up job recruiting.

Dantonio is a tool, I don't know why everybodys banking on this guy to be the next Nick Saban, isn't that what all you little Sparty's said about JLS & Bobby?? I'll believe it when I see it, right now you'll be lucky to make it to a bowl game next year...even with your almighty 3 star top incoming frosh Antonio Jeremiah
Fuck off. "little Sparty`s" (sic), my ass. When you can muster a degree from a Big Ten university, come talk to me. Until then, fuck off.

Dantonio is a tool, I don't know why everybodys banking on this guy to be the next Nick Saban, isn't that what all you little Sparty's said about JLS & Bobby?? I'll believe it when I see it, right now you'll be lucky to make it to a bowl game next year...even with your almighty 3 star top incoming frosh Antonio Jeremiah

If you want to talk trash, will you please read up a little before you do so. You sound like a moron and you need to get your facts straight. You obviously don't have a clue.

1) NOBODY thought Bobby was the next Saban. NOBODY thought JLS was the next Saban. I liked JLS's system in the early stages and thought there was promise and admittedly got giddy over ND wins, but I hated the hire when it was announced and Jethro will verify.

2) I am extremely frustrated by the recruiting situation, however I know Dantonio is a good coach. Can you back your opinion that he isn't? He sound like a moronic troll.

3) Nobody in their right mind is even predicting a bowl this year with the BT's toughest schedule and Dantonio cleaning up Bobby and JLS's Defensive mess. Antonio Jeremiah is a four star recruit for your last unintelligent statement.

Dantonio is a tool, I don't know why everybodys banking on this guy to be the next Nick Saban, isn't that what all you little Sparty's said about JLS & Bobby?? I'll believe it when I see it, right now you'll be lucky to make it to a bowl game next year...even with your almighty 3 star top incoming frosh Antonio Jeremiah

That was a pretty retarded post, and that's coming from a UM slappy. Sounds like the Sparty fasn you know are morons, which is not indicitive of the Sparty fans here, or Sparty Nation. They're fun to talk trash with, but you have to come with something other than that joke you posted.

3) Nobody in their right mind is even predicting a bowl this year with the BT's toughest schedule and Dantonio cleaning up Bobby and JLS's Defensive mess.

why is it that when you talk about Michigan, the Big 10 is a joke and they should breeze through....but when you talk about State they have the BT's toughest schedule. I fully understand that they may have the "toughest" schedule among the BT teams but if the conference is such a joke this year, it really shouldn't be that "tough"....right?

It makes me feel good to know that even Tre's closest friends don't get his logic. I'm not alone.

why is it that when you talk about Michigan, the Big 10 is a joke and they should breeze through....but when you talk about State they have the BT's toughest schedule. I fully understand that they may have the "toughest" schedule among the BT teams but if the conference is such a joke this year, it really shouldn't be that "tough"....right?

Do you seriously not know? I'd expect Glenn not to understand (only took 10 pages for him to understand my addidas stance), but you?

Michigan is a national power. Their toughest competition (teams like OSU and Iowa) are down this year providing Michigan with a pretty easy road. Wisconsin is probably the only potential great BT team and I still question that.

Michigan State on the other hand is at the bottom of the barrel. Sure the BT is down, but Ohio State on a down year is still 10 times better than State. And even if some of the teams are down, State still has to play them on the road making their toughest BT schedule a nightmare for a low on talent, new coach/new system team. Huge down year for the BT is still a monumental task for the joker MSU fball program.

Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio St., Penn St. all on the road.

It's not rocket science. When you speak of Michigan and Michigan State's chances this year you are looking at two completely different perspectives. One looking down, the other looking up at everybody. Don't worry Glenn, I'll explain it to you in a pm a couple more times.

It's not rocket science. When you speak of Michigan and Michigan State's chances this year you are looking at two completely different perspectives. One looking down, the other looking up at everybody. Don't worry Glenn, I'll explain it to you in a pm a couple more times.

...says the guy that admittedly can't even read any post longer than a few sentences.

The old "when all else fails and you are getting your ass handed to you, plead boredom" trick.

We will just have to not agree here. I just don't see how you can say the Big 10 is crap in one breath and then say that you have a tough Big 10 schedule in the next. No matter what perspective you are looking from.

I apologize for hijacking the recruiting thread.

I expect OSU to do what they did when they beat Miami for the champioship. Great D. Solid running game and field position.

Wisconsin is breaking in a new QB. Penn State is going to be solid. Not great but solid. Illinois will be better this year. No matter how bad a coach Zook is, he has got some talent to go there and talent will win you some games.

I just think Michigan especially offensively is that much better than anyone else in the conference and top 3 in the country.

D UM will struggle a little, but I expect them to be aggressive and faster than last year.

...says the guy that admittedly can't even read any post longer than a few sentences.

The old "when all else fails and you are getting your ass handed to you, plead boredom" trick.

Few sentences? Try 691 words. That's right, X wrote nearly 700 words in one post. If you have time to read that shit, I feel sorry for you.

Getting my ass handed to me huh? Right. The dude claimed that UM doesn't walk their football players through joke courses and backs it by citing UM's high graduation rate! DUH! How do you think they graduate? Yet, I got my ass handed to me.

Glenn, I hate to break it to you, but just because I root for State and have MSU opinions doesn't make me automatically wrong. Doesn't mean that I get worked in every arguement because you like the Michigan opinion and agree with it. You are so bent by my State perspective, you can't get over it. Go ahead, let's hear about how you went to MSU.

We will just have to not agree here. I just don't see how you can say the Big 10 is crap in one breath and then say that you have a tough Big 10 schedule in the next. No matter what perspective you are looking from.

I apologize for hijacking the recruiting thread.

Wow. You can't understand the fact that MSU will struggle in a down BT because they are: 1) Bad 2) Playing on the road

And you can't understand why UM in the same down conference will breeze through because they are: 1) Really good 2) Not playing most of their tough games on the road

Can't help ya then bro.

I expect OSU to do what they did when they beat Miami for the champioship. Great D. Solid running game and field position.

Wisconsin is breaking in a new QB. Penn State is going to be solid. Not great but solid. Illinois will be better this year. No matter how bad a coach Zook is, he has got some talent to go there and talent will win you some games.

I just think Michigan especially offensively is that much better than anyone else in the conference and top 3 in the country.

D UM will struggle a little, but I expect them to be aggressive and faster than last year.

I agree with your teams. Iowa will probably be solid too. I think UM's offense will be Top 3, but not their team. I think their D will be average at best in comparison to the other top teams in the country. However, I would definately bet on them getting to the NC game given their schedule in comparison to SEC teams for example.

Few sentences? Try 691 words. That's right, X wrote nearly 700 words in one post. If you have time to read that shit, I feel sorry for you.

It's a "discussion", which usually requires actually reading and considering what others have to say before spouting diarrhea from your keyboard.


Getting my ass handed to me huh? Right. The dude claimed that UM doesn't walk their football players through joke courses and backs it by citing UM's high graduation rate! DUH! How do you think they graduate? Yet, I got my ass handed to me.

See, if you actually read what others have to say, you might be able to form a somewhat coherent argument once in a while. Although, the quote above is not an example of you doing so.


Glenn, I hate to break it to you, but just because I root for State and have MSU opinions doesn't make me automatically wrong. Doesn't mean that I get worked in every arguement because you like the Michigan opinion and agree with it.

You are completely right here. You rooting for State and having MSU opinions is not the reason that you get worked in every argument. There are other reasons for that, but we don't need to get into that in any further detail right now.

Wow Tre by the time you got down copying and pasting his article into word and looking to see how many words were in his article, you could have finished 1/3 of it.

Also btw you have spouted 491 words just on this one page. How the fuck am I supposed to read it all? I mean what if I just got to this page just now and didnt see any of it. That is a lot of words for someone to write when they dont have time.

I am sure Tre will not read this because it has over 60 words and Tre just does not have time to read it all.

Also the fact that you have spent so much time and effort to defend the fact you did not read what Xanadu wrote, you could have read what he said and rewritten a response.

How did you ever manage to get through high school let alone college if you cannot concentrate on almost 700 words that someone wrote. Did you go to Michigan?

Sorry mine is only around 200 words so you have a chance to read it.

Wow. You can't understand the fact that MSU will struggle in a down BT because they are: 1) Bad 2) Playing on the road

And you can't understand why UM in the same down conference will breeze through because they are: 1) Really good 2) Not playing most of their tough games on the road

Can't help ya then bro.

You are always asking others to "read my post, I didn't say that"....well, read my post, I didn't say that.

I understand that Michigan is good and should win in a down conference....again, I've always understood this. I also understand that MSU is part of the reason that the conference is down this year.....again, I've always understood this.

What I said is when you talk about Michigan you oversell expectations (before you jump on this, I realize that all Michigan fans have high expectations) and when you talk about Michigan State you undersell expectations and this, as some of us know, has been going on for years.

You are always asking others to "read my post, I didn't say that"....well, read my post, I didn't say that.

I understand that Michigan is good and should win in a down conference....again, I've always understood this. I also understand that MSU is part of the reason that the conference is down this year.....again, I've always understood this.

What I said is when you talk about Michigan you oversell expectations (before you jump on this, I realize that all Michigan fans have high expectations) and when you talk about Michigan State you undersell expectations and this, as some of us know, has been going on for years.

You just agreed with what I said, yet you're giving me crap for it. (UM winning, MSU losing) Just classic "but it's coming from Tre the MSU fan so he must have some angle" bs.

I love the old Tre undersells/oversells complaint from the old UM united crew. There is nothing that pisses me off more in rivalry talk than this old bs. Filly threw this old bs at me on here before and I annihilated it, so please give my following words some thought because I'm sick and tired of this old bs claim that I can absolutely prove to be untrue.

99/00 Bball- Openly guaranteed a NC. Hence the Jickboy "Wait on it" line. Is predicting a NC underselling?!!!!!!!!!!!
00/01 Bball- Openly predicted another NC and was wrong. Underselling?
05/06 Bball- Openly predicted a NC and BT Championship. Underselling? Jethro and Moodini will verify the MSU preseason #1 stuff all over my living room floor and my annoying hype.

Charles Rogers/Jeff Smoker debacle year- openly predicted a BT title, way wrong. Underselling?
Braylon Miracle Comeback year vs. State- following the game I openly argued that State had the best team in the BT when healthy and got blasted for it. Underselling?
Last year- Predicted victory versus Michigan despite the ND debacle and predicted a great finish based on my belief that "good things will happen to good people" stance (Stanton).- way wrong, underselling?

I could go on and on. And in reference to overselling Michigan. WTF?!!!!!! Do you know me? I hate on Michigan every year. I told Moodini that I'd poop on my living room floor and eat it if Michigan won the NC last year because I was hating on them so much. I got BLASTED here for hating on them and then posting my "Told you so" thread. REMEMBER? I've spent my life doubting Michigan and hating on them. So maybe you can put away the old UM fans united bs conspiracy theory.

BTW, you never seem to have a problem with Filly never ever making a prediction but hating on others, you never seem to have a problem with jickboy's always predict success loyalty, and you never seem to have a problem with moodini pessimistic predict failure hot and cold style. But you'll talk about Tre under/overselling because he's a State fan.

Those are 700 quality words. whew, haha

k, back to recruiting. Tired of arguing.

k, back to recruiting. Tired of arguing.

Yeah!!!!!!

Now, since I have been in Vegas for a week, let me give my opinion on a few things that were not MSU vs Michigan stuff..

If Gray ends up a Husker, that should be an indictment on Dantonio..Gray has been a MSU lean for a long while and im shocked at just the thought he may end up at Nebraska. Also, the people I know are not telling me anything on Gray, which I find a little weird for who it is...Im sorry Tre. I wish I knew more to tell you like I did before...Walk away from the ledge my friend....

If Smith ends up with the Wolverines, I will still be surprised..I knew his parents were blue fans but were going to let him make his own decision and not pressure him as alot of parents do. To me after reading the article on rivals, it seemed he wanted to give his parents a look at the inside of Michigan because they are big blue fans rather than see the stuff over as he said...I still believe he ends up green..

Im happy the McGuffie saga is over..Glad he is blue.. But as someone said, its really time to start picking up some D players..We still really need some Lbers...Hopefully some of the big names come our way..

So far im really impressed with Michigan's recruiting class..Its way better than I thought it would be at this time..

Im very discouraged about MSU's class..As good as a coach that I believe Dantonio is, you can only do so much when you are thin on talent and have no depth..So far as much good as Dantonio has done at changing some attitudes at MSU, he is not showing anything on the recruiting front..

Yeah Dantonio sucks. Why aren't kids flocking to a 1-7 team that has underperformed for three years. I just don't get it?????

Yeah Dantonio sucks. Why aren't kids flocking to a 1-7 team that has underperformed for three years. I just don't get it?????

rolleyes.....

Smith is coming to UM. I was leery, but everything that is coming out of his camp has him coming to Michigan.

Brandon Smith and JB Fitzgerald, S and a LB. They will be blue. Well JB I am feeling very good about. B. Smith has maintained that Michigan has led throughout. So if UM takes care of business that is 2 very good D players.

Plus there are always guys who pop up in season that are not on the radar yet.

Now, since I have been in Vegas for a week, let me give my opinion on a few things that were not MSU vs Michigan stuff..

If Gray ends up a Husker, that should be an indictment on Dantonio..Gray has been a MSU lean for a long while and im shocked at just the thought he may end up at Nebraska. Also, the people I know are not telling me anything on Gray, which I find a little weird for who it is...Im sorry Tre. I wish I knew more to tell you like I did before...Walk away from the ledge my friend....

If Smith ends up with the Wolverines, I will still be surprised..I knew his parents were blue fans but were going to let him make his own decision and not pressure him as alot of parents do. To me after reading the article on rivals, it seemed he wanted to give his parents a look at the inside of Michigan because they are big blue fans rather than see the stuff over as he said...I still believe he ends up green..

Im happy the McGuffie saga is over..Glad he is blue.. But as someone said, its really time to start picking up some D players..We still really need some Lbers...Hopefully some of the big names come our way..

So far im really impressed with Michigan's recruiting class..Its way better than I thought it would be at this time..

Im very discouraged about MSU's class..As good as a coach that I believe Dantonio is, you can only do so much when you are thin on talent and have no depth..So far as much good as Dantonio has done at changing some attitudes at MSU, he is not showing anything on the recruiting front..
Good post. Even though you are a UM guy, you have my respect. The other UM slappies could do a lot worse than mirror you.

Dang, I'm too late to get in on the arguement? Aww snap! I'll save the ammo for a later date. I guess I'll post some recruiting stuff.

Lemming's top 100 is out, here are the noteables.

Wolverines
Sam McGuffie # 10-"Human-highlight film, most exiciting player in the country, threat for big yards every touch."
Boubacar Cissoko # 49
Dann O'Neill #59
Darryl Stonum #80
Brandon Moore #96

Others
Jonas Gray #62

Apparently Lemming is not a racist.
http://www.cstv.com/recruiting/recruiting2008.html

Last second indecision by Smith. MSU is not out of it yet.

Revisited yesterday, and is a SPARTAN!

Hell yea! I agree with the post above. TommyZ is actually my favorite poster here and he's a Wolverine. Maybe because he's got Wolverine allegiance and opinions, but comes with quality material to back it up and not just trash talk.

#13 Dayne Crist
#20 Kyle Rudolph
#32 Ethan Johnson
#34 Darius Fleming
#37 Steve Filer
#42 Omar Hunter
#89 Sean Cwynar
#92 Robert Blanton
#94 Lane Clelland

Notre Dame has a hell of a class.

MSU got another commitment. Drew Stevens LB from Ohio. My prediction, this will be a huge sleeper and the surprise of this class. He's only a 2 star player, but this is completely misleading. The reason? Last year out of necessity, his high school team needed him to play tailback. He had a terrific season, but he had very very little tape of himself playing D. Teams like Nebraska and Boston College were just now starting to hear about him, but the Spartans snagged him. Get this, he's 6'4" and runs a 4.5 forty! You take those numbers and add linebacker weight and he could be something. I like what I hear so far. But, many teams were hesitant to pull the trigger because of lack of video.

Hell yea! I agree with the post above. TommyZ is actually my favorite poster here and he's a Wolverine. Maybe because he's got Wolverine allegiance and opinions, but comes with quality material to back it up and not just trash talk.
Nice Pic Tre!! I'm thrilled for Coach D and MSU. Do you realize that to the best of my knowledge they haven't verballed/signed(?) a kid that U-M wanted since CHARLES FUCKING ROGERS??? Now with Hoover & Smith MSU has plucked 2 in 5-6 weeks. I only hope that Perry, Pannell, or Demens will climb on board.

Nice Pic Tre!! I'm thrilled for Coach D and MSU. Do you realize that to the best of my knowledge they haven't verballed/signed(?) a kid that U-M wanted since CHARLES FUCKING ROGERS??? Now with Hoover & Smith MSU has plucked 2 in 5-6 weeks. I only hope that Perry, Pannell, or Demens will climb on board.

Just a hunch here, but I dont believe Demens will end up with MSU...

Edit:


"It was awesome," Demens said. "It went well enough to make Nebraska my clear number one school right now. That's how big it was."

Just a hunch here, but I dont believe Demens will end up with MSU...

Edit:
Queue the Eagles and "Desperado." I'll take one of three (Pannell, Perry, Demens). All things point to you being "money" on Demens but then Smith was a "recent U-M lock" too. Stranger things...etc.

Queue the Eagles and "Desperado." I'll take one of three (Pannell, Perry, Demens). All things point to you being "money" on Demens but then Smith was a "recent U-M lock" too. Stranger things...etc.

I never thought Smith was going to Michigan.. I believed MSU all along...I also believe MSU will land Pannell...In not sure on Perry though

I never thought Smith was going to Michigan.. I believed MSU all along...I also believe MSU will land Pannell...In not sure on Perry though

Then you were the wisest of the "smart money" in the last two weeks. Spath even wrote it was a done deal yesterday afternoon according to Rivals. I believe Dotman had him there too. All on the strength of his visit with the family that was described as U-M pulling out ALL the stops and way over the top. Personally I don't think he amounts to a pimple on U-M's ass "on the field". This one was about keeping him from MSU, and inroads to the City of Detroit recruiting down the road.

Then you were the wisest of the "smart money" in the last two weeks. Spath even wrote it was a done deal yesterday afternoon according to Rivals. I believe Dotman had him there too. All on the strength of his visit with the family that was described as U-M pulling out ALL the stops and way over the top. Personally I don't think he amounts to a pimple on U-M's ass "on the field". This one was about keeping him from MSU, and inroads to the City of Detroit recruiting down the road.

Here Is a quote from Me.


On 8-3

If Smith ends up with the Wolverines, I will still be surprised..I knew his parents were blue fans but were going to let him make his own decision and not pressure him as alot of parents do. To me after reading the article on rivals, it seemed he wanted to give his parents a look at the inside of Michigan because they are big blue fans rather than see the stuff over as he said...I still believe he ends up green..

....signaling an ORANGE alert. Getting ready to announce a new verbal. Here's hoping for Demens, Pannell or Perry.

....signaling an ORANGE alert. Getting ready to announce a new verbal. Here's hoping for Demens, Pannell or Perry.

Oh baby....c'mon, more good news! I'd honestly be silly hyped over any one of those. However, I think if Demens were to come to State it would have to be an announcement that comes deep into the fall after the Spartan coaches have swayed him back. So I'd be more likely to believe that it is Pannell, Perry, Ingram, Gray, or Ray. Ingram or Ray would be my bet. Not sure what an orange alert is, but I guess I'll find out.

Gray, Pannell, and Perry are my top three on my wish list.

The Spartans land Trenton Robinson. Sounds like a similar situation to the LB they picked up yesterday. Robinson has played a variety of positions. He was All State last year and had 8 picks on a 10-2 team that won the SVL. He also won the 100 meter as a SOPHMORE. No idea why this kid isn't ranked higher. State wants him as a DB. Watched video of him and he burned Kenny Demens when they were doing LBs vs. RBs. Solid pickup regardless of the ranking. They say he can fly and I saw it on film, fast as hell.

Uh, not EXACTLY what I was looking for with the momentum from Smith yesterday. That said I'll defer to Dantonio/Narduzzi plus the old saying "you can't coach speed." These kind of choices, those somewhat under the radar, are candidates that are key for success down the road. Let's hope it bears fruit.

Sounds like whomever mans the ORANGE ALERT button has an itchy trigger finger.

I gots love for the City by the Bay, though.

They have some quality trashy high-haired women there, good fireworks on the 4th, too.

I agree that it isn't a high profile commitment, but I like what Dantonio is doing in terms of speed. Last year they landed the 100 m champion in Chris Rucker, now they add Robinson. That kind of speed will make MSU a better football team.

Did you guys know that Scout has Fred Smith as the top player in the state of Michigan? I think I read that right. Pretty cool.

I agree that it isn't a high profile commitment, but I like what Dantonio is doing in terms of speed. Last year they landed the 100 m champion in Chris Rucker, now they add Robinson. That kind of speed will make MSU a better football team.

Did you guys know that Scout has Fred Smith as the top player in the state of Michigan? I think I read that right. Pretty cool.
I also read that. I wonder if they meant top-rated uncommitted player in the state.

Bobo is the no 1 player in da state hands down. As for RB this year I say the Spartans should pick up Caulton Ray and then focus on the instate studs like Capers and Jackson in 09.

Robinson is cool, but I want to see more of him before I really say much about anything.

However, Stevens is a great pickup IMO. At the worst you have a GREAT special teams body - 6'4 220 and in the 4.5's - that is what every ST coach is looking for. Best case - you have Brian Urlacher out there, this kid is big, fast, and athletic(34 inch vert).

Bobo is the no 1 player in da state hands down. As for RB this year I say the Spartans should pick up Caulton Ray and then focus on the instate studs like Capers and Jackson in 09.

Caulton + MI2 = My RB class if I'm MD. Especialy with Ingram's flexibility, he could play just about anywhere on the field.

Pannell Picks Penn State...Im my opinion a big loss for the Spartans..I thought he might end up at MSU..


Birmingham (Mich.) Groves three-star offensive lineman Deon'tae Pannell has chosen to end his recruitment and make a commitment to a Big Ten school.

"I decided a while ago, but I wanted to let it sit in and stuff, and I actually committed to Penn State today," said Pannell.

Pannell Picks Penn State...Im my opinion a big loss for the Spartans..I thought he might end up at MSU..
Grew up a U-M fan. Wasn't going to happen. The guys at Rivals had this one pegged from the go. They saw him at State on visits and his body language showed he just wasn't feeling it. He selects Penn State and he is in neutral territory with a good opportunity. Good luck to him.

Grew up a U-M fan. Wasn't going to happen. The guys at Rivals had this one pegged from the go. They saw him at State on visits and his body language showed he just wasn't feeling it. He selects Penn State and he is in neutral territory with a good opportunity. Good luck to him.

Had State as his #1..That from his mouth..

Had State as his #1..That from his mouth..

Perhaps Pannel speak with forked tongue.

I always thought that would be the case. That is why I kept saying PSU 51/49. If he wanted MSU he would have done it a few weeks ago.

To me this is a classic..can't pull the MSU trigger case.

Pannell is one of those guys that grew up rooting for UM and against MSU. Then he gets recruited...MSU recruits him harder, builds more rapport with him and he realizes that even though UM offers, MSU is the better fit...BUT..he grew up liking UM and not liking MSU.

What is a kid to do....select Penn State. PSU basically becomes the easy choice by default. He had no exsisting feelings positive or negative toward PSU. In addition, by selecting PSU he gets everyone off his back in Michigan.

Trust me, Pannell is the 3rd kid that I know really liked everything about MSU, but for some reason they could not pull the trigger..The other 2, Tim Shaw and Trent Varva...common theme...grew up big UM's fans, but were not made a priority by UM even though Shaw eventually did get UM offer.

I saw Pannell on campus and was able to observe his body language, I just got the sense that though he liked everything about MSU, he just never saw himself as a Spartan.

The positive spin is you want kids that will bleed Green and White. Like Coach Dantonio said in round table, it has to be in a kids heart. If Pannell committed he may have been wavering for 6 months. Better he commits now so MSU can prioritize other guys.

BTW, Ron Vandy is an average recruiting coach at best IMO, so it is not like PSU outworked MSU here.

MSU did everything right here.

Perhaps Pannel speak with forked tongue.

I always thought that would be the case. That is why I kept saying PSU 51/49. If he wanted MSU he would have done it a few weeks ago.

To me this is a classic..can't pull the MSU trigger case.

Pannell is one of those guys that grew up rooting for UM and against MSU. Then he gets recruited...MSU recruits him harder, builds more rapport with him and he realizes that even though UM offers, MSU is the better fit...BUT..he grew up liking UM and not liking MSU.

What is a kid to do....select Penn State. PSU basically becomes the easy choice by default. He had no exsisting feelings positive or negative toward PSU. In addition, by selecting PSU he gets everyone off his back in Michigan.

Trust me, Pannell is the 3rd kid that I know really liked everything about MSU, but for some reason they could not pull the trigger..The other 2, Tim Shaw and Trent Varva...common theme...grew up big UM's fans, but were not made a priority by UM even though Shaw eventually did get UM offer.

I saw Pannell on campus and was able to observe his body language, I just got the sense that though he liked everything about MSU, he just never saw himself as a Spartan.

The positive spin is you want kids that will bleed Green and White. Like Coach Dantonio said in round table, it has to be in a kids heart. If Pannell committed he may have been wavering for 6 months. Better he commits now so MSU can prioritize other guys.

BTW, Ron Vandy is an average recruiting coach at best IMO, so it is not like PSU outworked MSU here.

MSU did everything right here.

I enjoyed the response Hip...I still believe Dantonio should have got him. But PSU was strong with him in the beginning....This is the one trait showing up of Dantonio that was said to be his weak point from the beginning..Hopefully He rights the ship as I like him as a football coach..Just not a recruiter

Tony Gillespie, a 4 star DT by Scout and 3 star by Rivals he has high interest in MSU according to Rivals. On Scout MSU isn't even listed?

Tony Gillespie, a 4 star DT by Scout and 3 star by Rivals he has high interest in MSU according to Rivals. On Scout MSU isn't even listed?

Based on the articles, MSU shouldn't be listed, he says his top 3 is Arkansas, KSU, and OSU.

"I enjoyed the response Hip...I still believe Dantonio should have got him."

The guy and his family loved U-M his whole life (which begs the question why didn't he go to U-M again??? Did they pull the schollie?). Those that observed him in his visits say his body language was throbbing "I'm not feeling it..." the times he was in E.L. Yeah, Dantonio what a fuck up.

You imply that Dantonio has a rep as a poor recruiter down. First I've heard of that. Can you elaborate? I heard just yesterday he got Troy Smith for one when he was at OSU.

Anyone know if Vaughn Carraway or Jonathan Meyers might be announcing soon?
Scout has Carraway as a 4 star WR with UM as the only team at High Interest level. Meyers is a 3 star LB with Florida and UM at High.

Rivals has Nick Smith updated with High Interest in MSU and medium for the biggest competition (UM, Iowa, etc.) I know Smith said he wanted to wait to make his decision, but I really hope Dantonio pushes him on this one. Fred Smith has been calling him regularly, talking to him about coming to MSU. This would be a big get.

I said a long, long time ago that I really wanted MarQueis Gray, back before he was getting much love and before many knew about him. Well, he's just been bumped up to a 4-star and it could get even better than that. I think MSU would be a great fit for him. I'd love to see him slinging it to Dell and Smith and he'd get an opportunity to do so maybe from his freshman year. Get him MD!

Who is Nick Smith? I'm guessing he is a new recruit because that name isn't ringing a bell.

Who is Nick Smith? I'm guessing he is a new recruit because that name isn't ringing a bell.

Ditto!!!

He's referring to Nick Perry.

Yeah, Nick Perry. My bad. Typo with talking about Nick and Fred Smith in the same post.

Gotcha Tre. I was kinda thinking that, but didn't wanna make any presumptions. Thanks for the clear up.

According to Scout Demens has narrowed it down to two teams, but I have no clue what two they are. I'm assuming MSU and Nebraska. Someone else likely knows more, especially if they have access to the article.

According to Scout Demens has narrowed it down to two teams, but I have no clue what two they are. I'm assuming MSU and Nebraska. Someone else likely knows more, especially if they have access to the article.

Demens is such a hot and cold kid. Did you read what he said about Michigan after his visit? You would have thought he just got a tour of Heaven from Jesus himself. It was out of control. He's named 3 different leaders and each leader came after he visited that school. Last one he went off about was Michigan, so I would guess it is Michigan and Nebraska.

I have some serious fan hatred for this kid if he isn't a Spartan because MSU was the first and only school to believe in him for quite some time. They were the first to offer and they were his only offer for awhile. Not until Jonas said they were a package deal did schools offer. Unless he's always been a Michigan fan, for him to choose them when they barely offered (late) or for him to go to freaking Nebraska after MSU praised him early and often, that would piss me off.

I have some serious fan hatred for this kid if he isn't a Spartan because MSU was the first and only school to believe in him for quite some time. They were the first to offer and they were his only offer for awhile. Not until Jonas said they were a package deal did schools offer. Unless he's always been a Michigan fan, for him to choose them when they barely offered (late) or for him to go to freaking Nebraska after MSU praised him early and often, that would piss me off.

That is why you need some help. This is an 18 year old kid we are talking about, and for you to spout this kind of shit speaks to your emotional bankruptcy. For crissakes, get over your sorry ass Sparty self and realize that these kids are obligated only to themselves. They're not 35 year old losers who hinge their emotions on what some 18 year old kid does for the next 4 years of his life. They have some other purpose than to live vicariously through other people.

That is why you need some help. This is an 18 year old kid we are talking about, and for you to spout this kind of shit speaks to your emotional bankruptcy. For crissakes, get over your sorry ass Sparty self and realize that these kids are obligated only to themselves. They're not 35 year old losers who hinge their emotions on what some 18 year old kid does for the next 4 years of his life. They have some other purpose than to live vicariously through other people.

Here we go! More of the BS that derails threads and leads to individual wars. That post wasn't about Demens, it was about me. Thank you for once again posting crap. I'll respond and if you want to carry on further with your personal assumptions and battles after this, It'll get sent to the Terrordome or the stands where most of your personal bs belongs. But I'm the one who flames the most right? You've already led one thread to be sent to the Terrordome and now dangerously close to 2 in 2 days. Thanks for your contribution.

Now on to my answer:

I said I'll have some FAN hatred. I made sure to say "FAN" hatred in attempt to clarify that it was simply a sports related dislike, not to be confused with real life hatred/feelings/etc. You know, like disliking TO or Bonds or Kobe. Get it?!!!

To clarify, I'm 26. Not 35.

It is "Christ's sake" not crissake. The "C" should be capitalized and it shouldn't be in a sports related post. Show some freaking respect. But maybe that's just my opinion.

Lastly, I love how you make assumptions about my life through a message board. Assuming that I need help, have emotional bankruptcy, and live through 18 year olds all because I think a recruit should go to a certain school. That is a pathetically bad post. I'd love to do a side by side comparison about where you and I are at in our lives to verify my lack of dependency on recruiting in the grand scheme of my life, but that's probably best left for the Terrordome like the rest of your shit. BACK ON TOPIC.

Actually the 2 schools are UM and Nebraska. Let the hate begin Tre.

Demens has always been a UM fan and so has his family. The only reason Nebraska is still in it is because of Gray and some of the other players out there.

Well Tre it is not like you have never made assumptions about people on this board. Deal with it and move on. Get past the posts that derail threads and they wont derail them.

All the best. MSU is trying to get headed in a positive direction and if you don't want to be a part of it. I totally get that. Dantonio and staff showed the love early on and if Demens isn't feeling it adios` muchacho. I got No PROBLEMO with it. Better to get a kid who'll bust his hump on 24/7 to wear the Green & White to play along the banks of the Red Cedar. All in time.

All the best. MSU is trying to get headed in a positive direction and if you don't want to be a part of it. I totally get that. Dantonio and staff showed the love early on and if Demens isn't feeling it adios` muchacho. I got No PROBLEMO with it. Better to get a kid who'll bust his hump on 24/7 to wear the Green & White to play along the banks of the Red Cedar. All in time.

Great point. Dragging kids into the program kicking and screaming is just setting up a house of cards. Take the kids that are willing to buy into what is happening and are willing to bust their asses.

I like your outlook, Hip.

Great point. Dragging kids into the program kicking and screaming is just setting up a house of cards. Take the kids that are willing to buy into what is happening and are willing to bust their asses.

I like your outlook, Hip.

At the risk of being redundant (here I go) I've said for the last 4-5 years (and Zip knows this) that MSU will need to do more with less. I remember when MSU was shoving U-M all over the field in A2 those few years ago. Up 17 with 8 minutes to go. Jim Comparoni made the observation that it was being done by guys who 90% of whom U-M wouldn't have even offered a schollie to. Of course the wheels came off the bus but it was a valiant effort. ONE OF THESE CAMPAIGNS maybe they close the deal. Then when the Jackson's and Woodley's SAY they are conflicted as to U-M or MSU maybe they really will be and don't automatically like some reflex action pull the Blue lever. Maybe when a solid group like Demens, Gray, Pannel,Perry, and Smith put their heads together and come to the conclusion that "for the hell of it let's see if we can turn things. Put MSU on our backs. It will be fun and it will be a challenge" things change. Dreamy shit but how real?

The more likely scenario will be Dantonio busting his giblets by knocking on doors and scouring not only the City of Detroit but the backwaters (Bay City and the new speedy all-state DB WITH NO FUCKING STARS) and evaluating and recognizing talent EARLY and getting them to commit. Then he must find a way to WIN with them. This and only this will be the catalyst for an MSU turnaround.

They need to find THOSE kids and that ain't easy. When or IF they do, then and ONLY then will things change.

I don't blame Tre for being a little ticked. Not just this situation, but these 18 years kids aren't just ordinary kids. When your grill and name are plastered all over the internet and you're about to get tens of thousands of educational dollars handed to you and enjoy the life for a while, it's understandable for me if fans get antsy with your comments and your on again off again feelings.
John Navarre wasn't much older than that when I was cursing his family after 7 consecutive passes either hit a WR's feet or got batted down at the line by someone barely over 6 feet tall. It's part of the deal. So as a Michigan fan, when someone is feeling Michigan and say all the right things and Michigan has given them all they wanted - if they decide to spend their next 3-5 years somewhere else I feel justified in being a little pissed. MSU losses that type of kid to Michigan and, apparently, Nebraska and such and their fans CAN be ticked and I'm fine with that. I'm ticked when UM loses kids to Notre Dame, Ohio State, USC, Florida State, Florida and so on.

Tre:
I apologize for my rant last night. That was a wholly unwarranted attack, and you're right, it's wrong for me to assume that you are completely irrational.

There was an article in the Freep about the Big 10 being over rated, and like HipDigIt, I NOW agree with it, and one of the ways to remove that tag is for the teams in the conference to get better. Even Sparty. I would also agree with Hip that the Michigan recroots like Gray, Demens, et al might think "Hey! We can go to MSU and bring them back, be part of something special, even if the mascot is kind of gay looking"--but I'm not an 18 year old kid with my whole life ahead of me and the world eating out of the palm of my hand.
These kids are obligated only to themselves. If Dantonio or Carr want to come around every night and give them a foot massage, that's on them. The kid doesn;t owe them a committment just because they showed them love, or first love or whatever.
Second, and this is the anlge I really believe in--I can understand wanting to leave the nest and go to a place like California, or Louisiana, or even, god help me, Nebraska. There's a whole new world out there, and why not go out and see it on someone else's dime?
I think a better way to phrase it might be disappointment. Why be angry (even a little) if a kid goes elsewhere? That's the problem with foloowing recruiting, and making it the circus that it is. Young, volatile, impressionable men, and we all sit around waiting for them to put on our favorite team's hat. It's ridiculous.

I guess with Demens I see it like this: MSU coaches were genuinely interested in him and saw his talent. They made him a top priority and gave him an opportunity when 0 other schools were willing to do so. Then UM comes in real late, offers maybe just as a defensive offer or because they wanted to snag the Gray/Demens combo. I wish he saw through it. Maybe that's not true, but that's my take on it. Seems like they would've offered much earlier if they were genuinely interested, they offered guys like Fred Smith last year. Normally I don't blame a kid one bit for not choosing State because that's your future and I don't know that I would risk it. However, this is a unique situation that I would have liked to see some loyalty to the only school that thought you were worth damn 6 months ago.

HipDigIt just said on another board that MSU is on Orange alert at Rivals..A position of "importance" is announcing soon...

You guys see this Kenny Demens kid from the 08 class yet? State was the first to offer him and I'm praying they get him. He's a linebacker, 6'1" 225 and wow. He is so physically impressive looking. He's got Big Ten linebacker arms right now. Check him out on Rivals. If it's the same pic they've got up in the state article, you'll see just how impressive he now is.

Thought this was fun to read now. I posted this like 50 pages ago in December. That's how early MSU was up on him. They offered well before I posted. That's why I'm so frustrated I guess.

Well, I understand the frustration. But it is going to be a long road for Dantonio. I'd be frustrated too because these last two Michigan high school classes have been diffeence makers, and it could have gone a long way for BOTH UM and MSU, but MSU especially.

Anthony Woods and SCRATCH THAT!

Looks like they get Anthony Woods: 6'4 313 OL from Melvindale MI

Thought this was fun to read now. I posted this like 50 pages ago in December. That's how early MSU was up on him. They offered well before I posted. That's why I'm so frustrated I guess.
As has been said by you and others, if the kid flip-flops like Mitt Romney on abortion, who needs him.

I tell ya what, if State can get Tarik Rollins I believe his name is, I'll gladly take him over Demens. This LB is just as impressive and he has much much more impressive offers on the table. I believe MSU is one of his favorites and he is from the sunshine state.

Played with Perry at McKenzie last year. Hopefully he'll have some juice and get in his ear. MSU really needs Perry if Demens is gonzo. Note Woods has ZERO stars on Rivals (and I'm about over that shit by the way...different thread..different day) but is rated the #32 player in Michigan? Dantonio is going to have to feast on this under the radar shit more than he may like. Then its' a matter of coaching 'em up.

Played with Perry at McKenzie last year. Hopefully he'll have some juice and get in his ear. MSU really needs Perry if Demens is gonzo. Note Woods has ZERO stars on Rivals (and I'm about over that shit by the way...different thread..different day) but is rated the #32 player in Michigan? Dantonio is going to have to feast on this under the radar shit more than he may like. Then its' a matter of coaching 'em up.

Exackry, Hip. If he can get these guys to line up, and if he is as good as some think, he can build up this way gradually. A few Alamo Bowls/recruiting trips, and who knows?

Some reasons why this kid is under the radar forthcoming. Turns out McKenzie closed and nobody knew where this kid would turn up. Woods will suit up for Melvindale this year. Perry is I forget.... but elsewhere. Evidently he was the #3 guy in 2006. Maybe a good get after all.

Hip:
It seems that with offensive linemen that if they're semi coodinated, and can run a forty in anything less than 19 minutes, that if they have the size they can be coached up.
Nebraska has won five NC's since 1970, and is famous for the offensive linemen they churned out. Most of them were walk ons from the middle of nowhere that nobody wanted. I think the O-Line is more about coaching than any other position in football.

Anthony Woods and SCRATCH THAT!

Looks like they get Anthony Woods: 6'4 313 OL from Melvindale MI


I went to school with his sister.

Just my take on why UM didn't offer Demens until late in the game. I don't think it was because they didn't know who he was or anything. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they were recruiting linebackers like Shayne Hale, Arthur Brown, Jon Major, Christian Wilson, Marcus Witherspoon, JB Fitzgerald, Steve Filer, etc.

It's like if the Spurs had a bunch of cap space and a number of the leagues stars were free agents. If you think you have a good shot with Kobe, AI, Lebron, Nash and Garnett. You only have cap space to sign 2 players. Do you think Chris Paul should feel disrespected if they don't offer him a contract until late in the game when some of the other players have signed elsewhere? So many of the other sign contracts in other spots around the league but the Spurs are still contenders every year. Finally, it comes down to the Spurs, Timberwolves and Hawks that have contacted him about signing. Do you blame him for taking the Hawks off his list even though they were the first to call his agent?

They obviously felt they had a strong enough influence to get both Gray and Demens late in the game. Any kid in Detroit dreams about going to Michigan and that is worth the wait to most. Michigan always has a shot at falling back on solid players when their super stars go elsewhere especially kids from the Midwest and Detroit.

Some reasons why this kid is under the radar forthcoming. Turns out McKenzie closed and nobody knew where this kid would turn up. Woods will suit up for Melvindale this year. Perry is I forget.... but elsewhere. Evidently he was the #3 guy in 2006. Maybe a good get after all.

He'll be a 3 star prospect once they get video on him and get more information after his move. That's my prediction.

My last post came before I read this. Here is what Rivals has to say about Anthony Woods. Sounds like this isn't just a played up "under the radar" recruit, but in fact a very good pickup.>>

People that have seen Woods in action believe he has all the makings of a tremendous interior offensive line prospect. Earlier this year, Woods attended the NIKE Combine in Columbus and was named to the All-Combine team. StudentsSports.com had the following to say about Woods' performance at that event:

Melvindale (Mich.) offensive line prospect Anthony Woods first appeared on the radar way back at the 2005 Ann Arbor NIKE Camp where he showed tremendous athleticism as a rising sophomore. After awhile off the map, Woods resurfaced Saturday and showed he's still got it, working out with the offensive linemen and ranking amongst the coach's top performers. He has good size at 6-4, 312 pounds and is a solid athlete for a player his size. He can also play D-line, where he had 12 sacks as a junior.

Woods possesses an excelent combination of speed and power for a player his size. This summer at the Michigan State camp he looked especially good in the agility drills. His time in the L-Drill was more indicative of a linebacker recruit than a 300-pound lineman. As far as strength, Woods currently has a max of around 400-pounds and has done 27 reps on the bench press.

Woods was offered by the Spartans last week. In addition to Michigan State, he also had scholarship offers from Colorado, Indiana, Toledo and Eastern Michigan. SpartnaMag.com has also learned that Virginia Tech and West Virginia were both close to pulling the trigger as well.

The opportunity to play close to home in the Big Ten and help Coach Dantonio build a championship team, as well as join several other local area stars in East Lansing was a positive in the recruitment of Woods. Woods is good friends with current Spartan wide receiver Chris Rucker who played for Detroit Country Day. He also knows 2008 commitment Fred Smith of Detroit Southeastern High School.

Woods would also like to see his former Mackenzie teammate Nick Perry join him in East Lansing. Perry and Woods were a tough duo to deal with at MacKenzie last fall. Perry is now at Detroit Martin Luther King High School.

Woods was flying under the radar of some recruiting analyst this year due to the change of schools as well as being tough to track down. SpartanMag.com included Woods on our list of top prospects due to his performance at Michigan State camp. We firmly believe that Woods will rise significantly in the national rankings once his senior film from Melvindale becomes available.

Woods has 4-star ability and once people see him in action, they will recognize talent he possesses. Woods and his Melvindale squad open the season against Brendon Kay and Marine City High School on August 24th. SpartanMag.com will have details about that match-up.

Here are some links to yet another recruitnik site:

Here is his profile from Michigan Elite:
Michigan Elite Football - Athlete Bio

Also he is ranked the #4 Defensive Lineman in the state, so he could project at DT.

Here are Michigan Elite's Offensive and Defensive Rankings:

Offense - Michigan Elite Football - Player Rankings

Defense - Michigan Elite Football - Player Rankings

Sorry, the links aren`t pasting over well. One point of interest, this website has Ingram the #1 RB in the state and Gray as #3. They also speak highly of Woods as a DL.

Here are some links to yet another recruitnik site:

Here is his profile from Michigan Elite:
Michigan Elite Football - Athlete Bio

Also he is ranked the #4 Defensive Lineman in the state, so he could project at DT.

Here are Michigan Elite's Offensive and Defensive Rankings:

Offense - Michigan Elite Football - Player Rankings

Defense - Michigan Elite Football - Player Rankings

Sorry, the links aren`t pasting over well. One point of interest, this website has Ingram the #1 RB in the state and Gray as #3. They also speak highly of Woods as a DL.

Interesting. I'm going to go watch Ingram's tape right now. I can't imagine he's the horse that Gray is. However, that Ingram name has been good to us in the past.

Here are some links to yet another recruitnik site:

Here is his profile from Michigan Elite:
Michigan Elite Football - Athlete Bio

Also he is ranked the #4 Defensive Lineman in the state, so he could project at DT.

Here are Michigan Elite's Offensive and Defensive Rankings:

Offense - Michigan Elite Football - Player Rankings

Defense - Michigan Elite Football - Player Rankings

Sorry, the links aren`t pasting over well. One point of interest, this website has Ingram the #1 RB in the state and Gray as #3. They also speak highly of Woods as a DL.
Thus killing the credibility of the website. Had Gray committed to State, that post wouyld have been decimated by now by the collective outrage of Spartan fans.

Gray is good, but he isn't the top kid in the state(and I've been saying this for months). Bobo, Martin, Smith, and maybe ONeill are better. And Ray and Ingram are at least close(I'd say that Gray should be a low 4 star, Ingram high 3, Ray 3), and have proved themselves vs. much better competition.

I think that that site is off, but not so far that it 'had it's credibility killed'.

I disagree about Gray not being the best in the state. I watched his video again and the kid is just a stallion. He's just so ripped up and his speed going down hill is so impressive for his size. I watched Caulton Ray's and then Jonas' and had to admit, Ray looks good, Gray looks great. I also watched Bobo's video. I came away EXTREMELY impressed watching him, but going back to my old point, his size keeps him out of the top 2 in my opinion. Not just height, but overall strength and size.

Rankings are based on a kid's potential at the next level and Gray and Smith both have a higher ceiling based on their body. I rank them like this:

1) Jonas
2) Fred
3) Bobo

BTW, I used to want Ingram and all, but didn't realize how big of a recruit he'd be because they don't have video. But, Wisconsin and Tennessee are all over him and Florida wants him as a DB. I'm impressed.

Jonas is playing against class C and D opponents. Ray is playing class A teams.

Gray should look bigger and faster compared to his competition than Ray ir Ingram.

Jonas is playing against class C and D opponents. Ray is playing class A teams.

Gray should look bigger and faster compared to his competition than Ray ir Ingram.

And on top of that, they only play 2 decent schools..Grand Rapids CC and Flint Powers...They also play Saginaw Nouvel but they lost everyone from last year

By the way, im not saying Gray is bad..He is the #2 player in the state..I still feel far and away that Boo Boo is the best..

And on top of that, they only play 2 decent schools..Grand Rapids CC and Flint Powers...They also play Saginaw Nouvel but they lost everyone from last year

By the way, im not saying Gray is bad..He is the #2 player in the state..I still feel far and away that Boo Boo is the best..


I think Boubacar has the best set of skills. Meaning his footwork and agility are untouched. But, when you look at him and then look at Gray/Smith-there is a difference there. Sure they play different positions, but I just see a higher ceiling with Gray and Smith.

I think Boubacar has the best set of skills. Meaning his footwork and agility are untouched. But, when you look at him and then look at Gray/Smith-there is a difference there. Sure they play different positions, but I just see a higher ceiling with Gray and Smith.

Sorry, Gray has no 'potential'. He is a 5'9 215 pound back. He isn't a kid that is going to bulk up or whatever. Will he still be good, hell yes. But if you are discounting Bobo(when half the NFL pro-bowl Corners are 5'9 too) based on size, why are you suggesting Gray has 'upside'.

Sorry, Gray has no 'potential'. He is a 5'9 215 pound back. He isn't a kid that is going to bulk up or whatever. Will he still be good, hell yes. But if you are discounting Bobo(when half the NFL pro-bowl Corners are 5'9 too) based on size, why are you suggesting Gray has 'upside'.

Potential and Upside: Going to MSU
Third best of the three: On to UM
It's simple dimple.

Potential and Upside: Going to MSU
Third best of the three: On to UM
It's simple dimple.

If I was going homer, I would put Ingram and Ray above Gray like others have stated genius. I also would have put Smith above Gray like Scout did. Brilliant.

Sorry, Gray has no 'potential'. He is a 5'9 215 pound back. He isn't a kid that is going to bulk up or whatever. Will he still be good, hell yes. But if you are discounting Bobo(when half the NFL pro-bowl Corners are 5'9 too) based on size, why are you suggesting Gray has 'upside'.

I specifically stated that it isn't just about height when I say size. Gray and Smith look like men among boys physically. Gray could easily add 10 pounds of muscle and cut his 40 time even further. He's also very raw, experience in reading the defense and making cuts can take you a long way. And BTW, I'm not discounting Bobo. I said I came away "EXTREMELY impressed." I just said that given his body, his ceiling isn't as high and apparantly some recruiting services agree because there are some that have Gray and Smith higher. It's not like I'm throwing some crazy idea out there.

Let me give you an example. 2 corners come into your school. One is 5'9" with a small frame and the other is 6'1" with broad shoulders and good build. If they are comparable in speed, which has the ability to perform at a higher level? I look at a 6'2" 215 pound ripped receiver in Smith and I just see him being able to compete at a higher level than an amazing 5'9" corner with a smaller frame. I guess time will tell.

In regards to Gray and Caulton Ray, watch both of their videos. If you don't see a difference, I don't know what to tell ya.

In regards to Gray and Caulton Ray, watch both of their videos. If you don't see a difference, I don't know what to tell ya.

Tre, I don't believe you are taking into account the outright bad schools that Gray has faced...Last year the 2 best schools he faced were a loaded Saginaw Nouvel and Flint Powers..In those 2 games he did absolutely nothing..That is an indictment on him and his team...Again, with that said, I still believe as of right now he is better than Ray...

On Smith. I really like him..But I dont believe he is going to be the stud you hope for Tre...I believe he is a true 3 star prospect...He is not in the same class as Mark Dell who you got last year and should be an absolute stud..Just my opinion there..

And I disagree about Boo Boo..I believe your making to much out of his size right now..He is only 17 and has a lot of growing to do..He has the ability to be a shutdown corner...Will he have trouble with a Calvin Johnson/Braylon Edwards type guy? Yep...But we will see..

I do invite you down to watch Smith and Burrell take on Boo Boo this year...

If I was going homer, I would put Ingram and Ray above Gray like others have stated genius. I also would have put Smith above Gray like Scout did. Brilliant.

You got me. It's a loophole, but you snuck it in there. And by the way, thanks for acknowledging that I'm a genius.
The point also is that Cissoko is #3 on your list, and guess where he's going?

Fred Smith is better than Mark Dell. Fred Smith is going to be a beast.

Gray is alright. Booboo is a true lockdown corner and with Warren, we are going to have a great secondary for a few years to come.

You got me. It's a loophole, but you snuck it in there. And by the way, thanks for acknowledging that I'm a genius.
The point also is that Cissoko is #3 on your list, and guess where he's going?
Maybe, just maybe, Tre actually thinks BoBo or BooBoo, or whatever the hell you freaks call him, is the third best player in the state regardless of where he is going. Zippy, the last thing you need loaded on your wagan of malcontent is paranoia.

Fred Smith is better than Mark Dell. Fred Smith is going to be a beast.

Gray is alright. Booboo is a true lockdown corner and with Warren, we are going to have a great secondary for a few years to come.

Disagree about Smith...Mark Dell is better..JMO on actually watching both numerous times in person...

Fair enough Tommy. Since you have seen them both live. I have only seen game footage.

Tre, I don't believe you are taking into account the outright bad schools that Gray has faced...Last year the 2 best schools he faced were a loaded Saginaw Nouvel and Flint Powers..In those 2 games he did absolutely nothing..That is an indictment on him and his team...Again, with that said, I still believe as of right now he is better than Ray...

On Smith. I really like him..But I dont believe he is going to be the stud you hope for Tre...I believe he is a true 3 star prospect...He is not in the same class as Mark Dell who you got last year and should be an absolute stud..Just my opinion there..

And I disagree about Boo Boo..I believe your making to much out of his size right now..He is only 17 and has a lot of growing to do..He has the ability to be a shutdown corner...Will he have trouble with a Calvin Johnson/Braylon Edwards type guy? Yep...But we will see..

I do invite you down to watch Smith and Burrell take on Boo Boo this year...

I did hear about him doing nothing about Nouvel. I don't know much about Gray's line or anything at Country Day so I don't know how much weight to put on him doing nothing against the best. I thought Smith was a "good" prospect watching video from last year. Once I watched him this summer in drills against some of the best, that's when my opinion changed.

I definately might take you up on that offer for the game this year. Maybe some fellow WTFers like Moodini, Jethro, and I can head out and see the game. Depends what Friday it falls on though.

I did hear about him doing nothing about Nouvel. I don't know much about Gray's line or anything at Country Day so I don't know how much weight to put on him doing nothing against the best. I thought Smith was a "good" prospect watching video from last year. Once I watched him this summer in drills against some of the best, that's when my opinion changed.

I definately might take you up on that offer for the game this year. Maybe some fellow WTFers like Moodini, Jethro, and I can head out and see the game. Depends what Friday it falls on though.

The game will be on Sept.28th....If im not mistaken it will probably start at 3:30 as most games do in Detroit...

Tre -

A short list of corners under 6'0:
Ronde Barber - 5'10
Dre Bly - 5'9
Sheldon Brown - 5'10
Fernando Bryant - 5'10
Randall Gay - 5'11
Deangelo Hall - 5'10
Leon Hall - 5'11
Sam Madison - 5'11
Ricky Manning Jr. - 5'9
Terrence McGee - 5'9
Terrence Newman - 5'11
Asante Samuel - 5'10
Lito Sheppard - 5'10
Fred Smoot -5'11
Patrick Surtain - 5'11
Nathan Vasher - 5'10
Antoine Winfield - 5'9

And even Darrell Green - 5'9

If I was making the perfect prototype corner, he'd be 6'1; however them 5'9 kids seem to have done OK.

Tre -

A short list of corners under 6'0:
Ronde Barber - 5'10
Dre Bly - 5'9
Sheldon Brown - 5'10
Fernando Bryant - 5'10
Randall Gay - 5'11
Deangelo Hall - 5'10
Leon Hall - 5'11
Sam Madison - 5'11
Ricky Manning Jr. - 5'9
Terrence McGee - 5'9
Terrence Newman - 5'11
Asante Samuel - 5'10
Lito Sheppard - 5'10
Fred Smoot -5'11
Patrick Surtain - 5'11
Nathan Vasher - 5'10
Antoine Winfield - 5'9

And even Darrell Green - 5'9

If I was making the perfect prototype corner, he'd be 6'1; however them 5'9 kids seem to have done OK.

Damn dude, I've said multiple times now that when I say size I'm not just talking height. I'm also talking about the build. Sure, you can lift and get bigger to an extent, but some kids are just genetically more equipt to build a pro type of body. When I looked at BoBo, he looked very small.

Caulton Ray is visiting East Lansing this weekend with his mom. He will possibly announce his commitment to Michigan State on Saturday or sleep on it and announce Sunday or Monday.

Would be a nice pickup.

http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Camper/PHOTO/BOUBACARCISSOKO707NA200.JPG
Looks to be similar build to most of the guys on that list. He's 171 right now, according to Rivals. That's got to be bigger per inch than many quality corners.

As for making it to the game, I would love it but that 3:30 start would be rough. All us teachers would have to leave right after school if we hoped to make it there by halftime.

Finally, I see that Christian Wilson has narrowed his schools down to Michigan and Rutgers. Looks like UM is looking at him as a FB or H-Back. BJ Askew?

Wilson is going to UM. His mom is a saleperson and SE Michigan is going to be in her new route.

http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Camper/PHOTO/BOUBACARCISSOKO707NA200.JPG
Looks to be similar build to most of the guys on that list. He's 171 right now, according to Rivals. That's got to be bigger per inch than many quality corners.

As for making it to the game, I would love it but that 3:30 start would be rough. All us teachers would have to leave right after school if we hoped to make it there by halftime.

Finally, I see that Christian Wilson has narrowed his schools down to Michigan and Rutgers. Looks like UM is looking at him as a FB or H-Back. BJ Askew?

He's way smaller than Smith and Gray muscle wise. However, he at least looks bigger in this pic than he did in his videos.

He's way smaller than Smith and Gray muscle wise. However, he at least looks bigger in this pic than he did in his videos.

But if you are standing far enough away from him, Tre, you will STILL be able to smash him between your index finger and your thumb for going to Michigan.

Remember this name Marvin Robinson Jr. from FLA.

He is 6'2 sophomore and is coming to UM on the 22nd with his teammate. A junior last names Aaron Williams. Both could be 5* in their respective classes.

Robinson is a S and Williams is a RB. Williams could commit if he gets an offer on the 22nd vs. PSU. It might signal that Capers is not coming, but you take a 5* no matter what.

Robinson already has his # at UM picked out (#3). He wears #2, but knows that Sam is getting that number and so he will take #3 after Brown leaves in a couple of years.

bukdow, I think you need therapy. Exactly what IS a "sellout" in terms of a high school athlete choosing a college?

bukdow, I think you need therapy. Exactly what IS a "sellout" in terms of a high school athlete choosing a college?
Well, I think a sell-out is a kid who buys the hype when objective evidence is to the contrary. They allow themselves to be swayed by psuedo-elitest hogwash, all the while the ones who view themselves as the true elites only want to use the kid like cattle. All the charms and alluring buables they use to bring the kid in will never actually be available to him. This is known, this is documented. Yet, the kid still falls for it.

I think you are engaged in a war of words and philosophies filled mostly with hyperbole, and I can;t follow you here. Are you saying that UM won;t give him an opportunity to play, or that he won;t get an education? This is the #1 rated prospect in Michigan, and UM needs some secondary help. It seems like a match made in heaven (otherwise known as Ann Arbor).
Now I've said that I can agree with those who think that at MSU, all these Michigan prospects could have ganged up, went to East Lansing, and started a revolution. But most have chosen not to.
You got to admit, that with "The Helmet", THE Fight Song, and a long track record of blowing big games (but at least playing in some), UM is pretty alluring.

I think you are engaged in a war of words and philosophies filled mostly with hyperbole, and I can;t follow you here. Are you saying that UM won;t give him an opportunity to play, or that he won;t get an education? This is the #1 rated prospect in Michigan, and UM needs some secondary help. It seems like a match made in heaven (otherwise known as Ann Arbor).
Now I've said that I can agree with those who think that at MSU, all these Michigan prospects could have ganged up, went to East Lansing, and started a revolution. But most have chosen not to.
You got to admit, that with "The Helmet", THE Fight Song, and a long track record of blowing big games (but at least playing in some), UM is pretty alluring.
Well, I think that he will be funneled into General Studies (an education you could get a community college) and if he doesn`t pan out to be the next Woodson, he will be tossed aside. In addition, to get him to come to UM they will talk about the academics, the football history (rightly so) and the phenomenon of the "Michigan Man". However, he will, more than likely, not be exposed to great academics and if he doesn`t become an All-American he will be discarded.

Christian Wilson to Michigan as an H-back think Askew.

Well, I think that he will be funneled into General Studies (an education you could get a community college) and if he doesn`t pan out to be the next Woodson, he will be tossed aside. In addition, to get him to come to UM they will talk about the academics, the football history (rightly so) and the phenomenon of the "Michigan Man". However, he will, more than likely, not be exposed to great academics and if he doesn`t become an All-American he will be discarded.

And what's the problem with all of this? If Booboo wants to be a good student, he will be; if he doesn't, he better be damn good at football. If he sucks at both, then he should be kicked to the curb.
Welcome to life, booboo (and, apparently bukdow).

What does the snagging of Wilson do to the Demens scenario? Husker lock?

Wilson has been recruited as an H-back, but could play LB.

From what I hear today Demens to Huskers is probably the way that is going to go.

UM still in the lead for Fitz.

Well, I think that he will be funneled into General Studies (an education you could get a community college)

why does my post get deleted while ignorant drivel like this stay up?

bukdow: why dont you say what you know about UM's general studies program, or admit that your as ignorant as you appear.

No posts were deleted, some personal attacks were moved to the Terrordome, though.

Buk's not really adding anything to the recruiting discussion with his wide sweeping generalizations and personal agenda against Michigan, but he's not derailing the thread with an attack on a specific poster either (at least not in the post you quoted).

If you want to go at it with him there, go for it.

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?p=184110#post184110

On Demens:
I can't stand the thought of another Michigan kid coming to Nebraska.

I hope Demens is aware that Husker Fans' patience is wearing thin with Callahan. Most of the juice from their win over (who else?) Michigan a couple years ago is gone. Another four or five loss season, and the heat will be turned up quite a bit.
I am very sure (because I checked) that Frank Solich's last five seasons at Nebraska produced records of 12-1,10-2,11-2,7-7,and 10-3. Then he was canned.
And Callahan was about their 4th choice, and was only available because the Raiders fired him late in the game.

On Demens:
I can't stand the thought of another Michigan kid coming to Nebraska.

I hope Demens is aware that Husker Fans' patience is wearing thin with Callahan. Most of the juice from their win over (who else?) Michigan a couple years ago is gone. Another four or five loss season, and the heat will be turned up quite a bit.
I am very sure (because I checked) that Frank Solich's last five seasons at Nebraska produced records of 12-1,10-2,11-2,7-7,and 10-3. Then he was canned.
And Callahan was about their 4th choice, and was only available because the Raiders fired him late in the game.

I gotta' think that after they made Solich gonzo with a pretty decent record Callahan's perp walk is shortening by the day. He's got that fucking Keller who I hate like poison and if he can't make his pro offense tick the la-la Callahan.

Maybe Beau Bridges is available?

Nebraska does have a five star QB coming in next year, and they have loaded up on O line talent. HOWEVER, Callahan, and correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't been nabbing a whole lot of solid defensive recroots.

It won't matter who they bring in. This dufus of a coach runs the West Coast offense. Better known as, we don't throw deep, our offense will never put up more than 28 on the board, and our ground game is gimmicky offense. TheWCO is a joke and I wish alot of these kids realized what they were signing up for. Hell, go to Michigan. As stone age as it is over there, you have much more room for success with their offense.

It won't matter who they bring in. This dufus of a coach runs the West Coast offense. Better known as, we don't throw deep, our offense will never put up more than 28 on the board, and our ground game is gimmicky offense. TheWCO is a joke and I wish alot of these kids realized what they were signing up for. Hell, go to Michigan. As stone age as it is over there, you have much more room for success with their offense.

Agree: WCO is for dolts, and won;t work in college on the grand scale
Michigan's offense was devised by Barney Rubble

I gotta' think that after they made Solich gonzo with a pretty decent record Callahan's perp walk is shortening by the day. He's got that fucking Keller who I hate like poison and if he can't make his pro offense tick the la-la Callahan.

What I don't understand is how is Keller named the starting QB? Didn't he transfer from ASU just last year? Doesn't he have to sit a year? Did I miss something?

Yeah he transferred last year and sat out last year.

What I don't understand is how is Keller named the starting QB? Didn't he transfer from ASU just last year? Doesn't he have to sit a year? Did I miss something?

Sammy I-ammy Keller once verballed to U-M. He changed his mind went to Tempe. When Andrew Walter got hurt and couldn't go in the Sun Bowl Keller stepped in as an untried sophmore and delivered a win against Purdon't. He became instantly insufferable and "thought who he was." Two springs ago, after Keller had been hurt the previous year and Rudy Carpenter stepped in and led the nation in passing percentage and some other shit, Keller was on a party rampage up and down Mill Ave. and his teammates resented it. At the last moment that fuckhead Koetter (the only coach in the NCAA who could puke a 28-3 half-time lead against USC last season...I'm still sick) names Rudy C. the starter in hopes of getting Keller to straighten out and what does SammyIammy do? He takes his ball and goes to Lincoln and sits a year. I got my boy Goshboots on the case and if I hear one piece of biz that he's out of line I'm releasing the glossy 8x10's of Keller with that farm animal taken behind "Freddy's Down the Tracks" (though it may have been Chuy's Choo Choo) from two years ago.

WOTS from Lincoln is that Keller is staying sober, and quiet. After he was named the starter for this season, Police in Lincoln had Keller and his father sequestered in an unknown location, and they were on suiced watch for 24 hours. However, Callahan, to everyone's best knowledge, wasn't having dinner that night with Koetter of ASU.
Forty eight hours, and many local newspaper stories later, and Keller is still in as the starter for the Huskers.
Never known as a group short on optimism, Husker fans are predicting a Big 12 Championship and a possible BCS Title Game berth.
And yes, an upset over USC this year at Memorial Stadium in Lincoln.

Congrats to the Sparties on getting Caulton Ray from Brother Rice. He looks like he is one hell of a RB.

Congrats to the Sparties on getting Caulton Ray from Brother Rice. He looks like he is one hell of a RB.

Link?

Filly, I know it is near a done deal, but where did you see that? It isn't in the underground bunker. They've always got to the minute announcements.

Filly, I know it is near a done deal, but where did you see that? It isn't in the underground bunker. They've always got to the minute announcements.
Ray at this point is a "silent verbal" and is waiting to hit the campus with his Moms before announcing. I've seen his film and he looks to be a solid get.

Every Wednesday, on "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" here in Omaha, the local hacks interview Jerely Crabtree of Rivals.
I called ( I do almost every week), and this is what Jeremy had to say about UM and Demens:
Demens: No decision, probably Nebrasky, but he just can;t get a read on what Kenny will do. The local hacks love Demens, and ask about him every week. Who knows?
On UM: Great class, "powerful"
O'Neill: Franchise offensive lineman of the future, be "very excited" about him
Brandon Moore: Great receiver, big kid, big hands, throw it up there, he will go get it
Stonum: Going to be "special" at UM, a great recruit.
BooBoo: FRANCHISE defensive back, not phased by BooBoo's 5'8-ness. Crabtree says he will be great.
McGuffie: Everyone is excited about him and they "should be", but a quickly went onto Stonum.

A guy still out there that would be a huge get for UM is Trevor Robinson. Rivals has him at the #2 offensive guard in the country. Originally a Nebraska recroot, he de-committed after the Huskers secured their 300th OL committment for next year.
He is 6'6, 304, runs a 5.2 forty. 3.92 GPA (He should glide through General Studies), and looks like a tractor eating kid from the middle of nowhere.
I'm interested in him, cuz kids this good from Nebrasky don;t leave the state usually. It's down to UM, Nebraska, and Notre Dame.
Come on, Lloyd, give the kid a call. Work your charm on him.

His dad wants ND. Who also have 30 OL recruits over the last 2 seasons.

I think that's what is the holdup on him announcing. He wants UM, and has always hinted that that was where he wanted to go. The local hacks were super surprised when he committed to Nebraska, and did it early.
Believe it or not (at your own peril) I was listening to the local hacks interview him on the radio. He was pretty hyped about UM and Nebraska, and during the interview he received a text from none other than Lloyd H Carr. The local hacks said that was a first for their show.

Some fresh Demens info. He is announcing Sept 4th. First day of school.

Fred Smith has been talking to him on Facebook and MSU has come back into the picture and it is a 3 team race.

Saying that, the chances of him coming to Michigan are very, very strong.

Looks like Michigan State has picked up a committment from an Offensive Tackle from Gull Lake. Looks like he is a big boy, but the name didn't really pop off the sheet, so I'm wondering if MD found himself a "sleeper."

He has a decent forty time for his frame, maybe he is underrated due to the fact that he isn't from a powerhouse school and didn't get much exposure. Thats the 3rd very high 2 star in the books for state with a 5.4 rating (Deyo, Robinson, Woods) that may eventually become threes per Rivals. Also note commits Burrell and Ruhland are very high threes, 5.7 rating.

Also got a DE today named Chris McDonald.

Also got a DE today named Chris McDonald.

6'4 260 and a 4.65

Offered by Illinois, Indy, Purdue, and Duke.

Bball11- Where did you get that pic of the Spartans mowing down the competition? I HAVE TO HAVE IT! Hook me up!

I'm sick of 2 star recruits btw. You can only have so many "sleepers."

Bball11- Where did you get that pic of the Spartans mowing down the competition? I HAVE TO HAVE IT! Hook me up!

I'm sick of 2 star recruits btw. You can only have so many "sleepers."

Tre, I feel ya, bra.
But Dantonio has a long road to hoe, and he's gotta start somewhere. I for one get a good feeling about him, I think he's not panicking, he'll take the lumps the first year, because he believes in what he is setting out to do. Just roll with it for now, and you'll be rewarded.

And I think bball got that picture from his dreams.

Tre, I feel ya, bra.
But Dantonio has a long road to hoe, and he's gotta start somewhere. I for one get a good feeling about him, I think he's not panicking, he'll take the lumps the first year, because he believes in what he is setting out to do. Just roll with it for now, and you'll be rewarded.

And I think bball got that picture from his dreams.
Zippy, you are correct. Dantonio is going to have to win with the "diamonds in the rough" and the "sleepers" before he starts getting the 4 and 5 star recruits and kicking UM`s ass consistently. Causing you and the other UM lampreys to try and become Green and White.

And why the hell did you call Tre a woman`s under garment?

Bball11- Where did you get that pic of the Spartans mowing down the competition? I HAVE TO HAVE IT! Hook me up!

I'm sick of 2 star recruits btw. You can only have so many "sleepers."

Deyo - sleeper

McDonald - Will be 3 stars next update, he has a half dozen BCS offers. That isn't a sleeper.

http://www.spartantailgate.com/images/wallpaper/070818/070818_300_1024.jpg

The best part is Tommy Zibikowski from ND getting speared.

Zippy, you are correct. Dantonio is going to have to win with the "diamonds in the rough" and the "sleepers" before he starts getting the 4 and 5 star recruits and kicking UM`s ass consistently. Causing you and the other UM lampreys to try and become Green and White.

And why the hell did you call Tre a woman`s under garment?

UH.................no

UH.................no
We shall see. Good Lord, you had better hope not. What would you guys do if MSU/UM went .500 against one another in football? Or worse, what if MSU got the upper hand? UM basketball will never catch MSU. All you have is football. And softball, I guess. The state of Michigan would really rue the day Reagan cut the funding for all the mental institutions and asylums (basically creating the homeless problem).

We shall see. Good Lord, you had better hope not. What would you guys do if MSU/UM went .500 against one another in football? Or worse, what if MSU got the upper hand? UM basketball will never catch MSU. All you have is football. And softball, I guess. The state of Michigan would really rue the day Reagan cut the funding for all the mental institutions and asylums (basically creating the homeless problem).

lol

The state of Michigan would really rue the day Reagan cut the funding for all the mental institutions and asylums (basically creating the homeless problem).

Well, now we know how bukdow has gained access to a computer.
bukdow, so far MSU is seriously lagging in the recruiting game. If the State got a little "greener" when he was hired, it was because Michigan got a lot of rain, not because of his hiring.
For all of Lloyd's shortcomings, he can and is stocking the cupboard with superior talent. The next COACH who comes in will have a pretty smooth transition, not the three or four year rebuild that was laid at Dantonio's feet.
I'd seriously worry about blowing homecoming games to Illinois before I start hurling spears in the direction of the Michigans and The Ohio States.

Well, now we know how bukdow has gained access to a computer.
bukdow, so far MSU is seriously lagging in the recruiting game. If the State got a little "greener" when he was hired, it was because Michigan got a lot of rain, not because of his hiring.
For all of Lloyd's shortcomings, he can and is stocking the cupboard with superior talent. The next COACH who comes in will have a pretty smooth transition, not the three or four year rebuild that was laid at Dantonio's feet.
I'd seriously worry about blowing homecoming games to Illinois before I start hurling spears in the direction of the Michigans and The Ohio States.
Yeah, it will take some time, but I think kids want to come to MSU. For example, the fact that RoJo and Barksdale were actually seriously considering MSU at the end is a good sign. Once MSU starts winning, those kids will come to MSU. I don`t think it will take too long before MSU and UM are splitting the top kids in the state. Hell, they almost are now. Add some of the top kids from Ohio to MSU`s roster and all of a sudden there is a very talented team with a good coach and gameplan.

On the other hand, I almost don`t want it to happen. It would look like 1929 in all the trailer parks across the state. Taking UM football away from the pleather crowd may be more than the Midwest can handle.

I don't understand what you are saying about Michigan State and UM with regard to recruiting in Michigan. But typically, State is still getting the kids UM doesn't have a need for (Fred Smith). Also, alot are still going out of state. The most troubling recruiting loss was Gray (not to mention Pannell). I'd have thought State would get those kids instead of friggin' Nebraska or Penn State (who has had one and a half good years out of the last 7 or so).

Good luck with the "top" kids from Ohio who still appear to be locked in by either UM, OSU, or even Penn State. I think it is over sell to think that at this point Dantonio is going to walk into Ohio and flash that NC ring and win them over.
If winning is what it will take, then you'd better hope that MY VERY OWN thought that if Dantonio is a good coach, he'd be worth two to three victories per year that JLS couldn't muster up (even with the same talent).
Game plan? I will wait and see. Tough defense, run the ball...and you Sparties think Lloyd is unimaginative!
Dantonio's game plan has all the appearances of something that will require TALENT snf COACHING, two things it is very premature to start hanging your hat on.

I don't understand what you are saying about Michigan State and UM with regard to recruiting in Michigan. But typically, State is still getting the kids UM doesn't have a need for (Fred Smith). Also, alot are still going out of state. The most troubling recruiting loss was Gray (not to mention Pannell). I'd have thought State would get those kids instead of friggin' Nebraska or Penn State (who has had one and a half good years out of the last 7 or so).

Good luck with the "top" kids from Ohio who still appear to be locked in by either UM, OSU, or even Penn State. I think it is over sell to think that at this point Dantonio is going to walk into Ohio and flash that NC ring and win them over.
If winning is what it will take, then you'd better hope that MY VERY OWN thought that if Dantonio is a good coach, he'd be worth two to three victories per year that JLS couldn't muster up (even with the same talent).
Game plan? I will wait and see. Tough defense, run the ball...and you Sparties think Lloyd is unimaginative!
Dantonio's game plan has all the appearances of something that will require TALENT snf COACHING, two things it is very premature to start hanging your hat on.
Zippy, you really shouldn`t be so disingenuous. UM offered, and wanted, Fred Smith and Tyler Hoover. However, they chose MSU over UM. Also, its looking like the same thing might happen with Perry.

I understand, you are seeing the writing on the wall and you are getting nervous. Just settle down, you probably have another 3 to 4 years before you have to come to the Green and White with your tail between your legs asking if you can be part of it.

Two more points, bukdow:
Renowned sports analyst Gary Danielson was on a Detroit radio show awhile back and said MSU's avenue would be to stick with the "sleepers", kids that will stay for four years and work really hard, tossed in with a star or two, and beat the UM's or TOSU's with coaching and experience (which would not mean regularly beating them or even splitting with them, more like a play for one or two good year span and then rebuild again).
Secondly, MSU is years away from having star power to recruit the Florida's, Texas's, California's; in other words, MSU has NO national pull and won't for awhile. It seems that when they did pull guys from those places, again, it was guys that the big boys didn't go after.
I'm not feeling your enthusiasm if you keep insisting that Belein won't be able to do it with UM basketball. The arguments are the same, and I can't get where you have some magical feeling about a guy who is way less proven than Belein, and Belien is in a sport where one or two guys makes a huge difference.

OK, you get Hoover (4 star TE); UM get's THREE 4 star TE's. You get Fred Smith (who was truly a UM lean, a 4 star), UM matches that, as an add on to the freshmen coming in this year (we can't yack about receivers, MSU seems to have a pretty good tradition there, and uM ALWAYS has great receivers).
You TALK top kids in Ohio, UM goes out an gets a 3 star and two 4 stars from the buckeye state. Drew Stevens (by Scout.com) is a 1 star out of Ohio.

Disingenuous, last time I checked, meant dishonest. I ain't being dishonest, I'm being realistic.

Two more points, bukdow:
Renowned sports analyst Gary Danielson was on a Detroit radio show awhile back and said MSU's avenue would be to stick with the "sleepers", kids that will stay for four years and work really hard, tossed in with a star or two, and beat the UM's or TOSU's with coaching and experience (which would not mean regularly beating them or even splitting with them, more like a play for one or two good year span and then rebuild again).
Secondly, MSU is years away from having star power to recruit the Florida's, Texas's, California's; in other words, MSU has NO national pull and won't for awhile. It seems that when they did pull guys from those places, again, it was guys that the big boys didn't go after.
I'm not feeling your enthusiasm if you keep insisting that Belein won't be able to do it with UM basketball. The arguments are the same, and I can't get where you have some magical feeling about a guy who is way less proven than Belein, and Belien is in a sport where one or two guys makes a huge difference.
MSU doesn`t need "national pull". It merely needs Midwest pull. And as I have said before, RoJo and Barksdale were both seriously considering MSU til the very end. Also, Smith and Hoover chose MSU over UM. It seems to me there is already interest in MSU and once they put together three 7-8 wins seasons (which I believe will start this season), you will see more kids pick MSU over the "big boys".