has anyone thought of this trade from a different angle? hear me out...

maybe JoeD's whole intention with this trade was to upgrade the backup PG position. remember when we brought in Sheed right at the trade deadline? it was because JoeD thought the team needed help to get over the hump. it was controversial, but it was the shot in the arm that the team needed. maybe this is the nearly the same scenario. he sees the wins, but he's worried about the bench play that starts at the backup PG. he's not fully confident that Arroyo will lead the 2nd squad to success during the playoffs and Finals.

now just trading Arroyo might have been a difficult task. BUT, JoeD had a extra chip to play with: Darko.

so, maybe JoeD was fully intent on getting rid of Darko, but wasn't really in a hurry.....that is until he felt he needed to get rid of Arroyo and upgrade the backup PG. combine the two and he's got room to make some moves. i know he said he's "gotta start looking for a backup PG", but that could just be smokescreen while he's got a player (or maybe a few) in his sights.

maybe?

you say 'why keep him?' i say 'why move him?'

for that draft pick? i'd let his contract expire. hell, maybe the switch gets turned on, who knows?

in all likelyhood, that draft pick will net us a player that will contribute less than a MLE free agent would. if theres some guy joe has his eye on (ala tayshaun) im sure he could trade up.

of course, we could get the #6 pick, which would be nice. but we could get the #15 pick... which is more like 'who cares'.

Hey everybody Joe Dumars shit doesn't stink. HIS SHIT DOESN'T STINK!!!!!!

Listen, I know I'm going overboard, I'm just venting a little is all. I was pissed, though not to this level when we traded Roddy White away for a first rounder, a second rounder and Don Reid, claiming Dumars would rue the day he made that trade. If the search function works at RGM, it's probably one of my first posts overthere if I recall correctly.

But I don't genuflect at the altar of Joe Dumars either. You claim he doesn't make mistakes, but then why wait until Milicic's value is so low to trade him? Judging by this trade, it couldn't get any worse - might as well hold on to him and see if he raises it over the summer.

We could have had Al Harrington last year, won the title and be odds on favorite to win this year. You buy low and sell high. Dumars sold low on this one boys and girls.

has anyone thought of this trade from a different angle? hear me out...

maybe JoeD's whole intention with this trade was to upgrade the backup PG position. remember when we brought in Sheed right at the trade deadline? it was because JoeD thought the team needed help to get over the hump. it was controversial, but it was the shot in the arm that the team needed. maybe this is the nearly the same scenario. he sees the wins, but he's worried about the bench play that starts at the backup PG. he's not fully confident that Arroyo will lead the 2nd squad to success during the playoffs and Finals.

now just trading Arroyo might have been a difficult task. BUT, JoeD had a extra chip to play with: Darko.

so, maybe JoeD was fully intent on getting rid of Darko, but wasn't really in a hurry.....that is until he felt he needed to get rid of Arroyo and upgrade the backup PG. combine the two and he's got room to make some moves. i know he said he's "gotta start looking for a backup PG", but that could just be smokescreen while he's got a player (or maybe a few) in his sights.

maybe?
But he hasn't upgraded the backup PG spot yet.

Granted he could still trade Cato for some help but from all the reports, we are either going to keep Cato or waive him.

[smilie=hissyfit.gi: I hate this trade!!!!!!! BTW,I bet Joe's just going to waive Cato within the next 48 hours.

Drama queen little bitch. I wish there was an ignore feature around here for the likes of you!!

What are we happy about? The fact that the only 2 players that I dislike on the Pistons are now gone. The fact that everything we see of Darko tells us that he sucks and the only reason that people think he might be good is that Joe Dumars kept saying he was. If he's willing to do this trade than it only adds to my belief that Darko will never be a good player in this league.

Arroyo blows. I would much rather have Delfino out there than him any day of the week. Sure we are in deep shit if Billups gets hurt but if he gets hurt, we are screwed with Arroyo anyways.

I doubt that we trade Cato but if we do and we get a decent player for him than Dumars is a god.

You are happy that the two player you dislike are gone. The rest of us are unhappy that we don't have a fucking backup PG. Hunter, Delfino and Prince are only patchwork solutions.


Gee, where oh where are we going to find a backup pg that averages 3 pts and 3 assists on 36% shooting that plays absolutely no defense and makes 4+ million dollars a year?

LOL at anyone upset that we lost Carlos Arroyo. You guys are hilarious.

has anyone thought of this trade from a different angle? hear me out...

maybe JoeD's whole intention with this trade was to upgrade the backup PG position. remember when we brought in Sheed right at the trade deadline? it was because JoeD thought the team needed help to get over the hump. it was controversial, but it was the shot in the arm that the team needed. maybe this is the nearly the same scenario. he sees the wins, but he's worried about the bench play that starts at the backup PG. he's not fully confident that Arroyo will lead the 2nd squad to success during the playoffs and Finals.

now just trading Arroyo might have been a difficult task. BUT, JoeD had a extra chip to play with: Darko.

so, maybe JoeD was fully intent on getting rid of Darko, but wasn't really in a hurry.....that is until he felt he needed to get rid of Arroyo and upgrade the backup PG. combine the two and he's got room to make some moves. i know he said he's "gotta start looking for a backup PG", but that could just be smokescreen while he's got a player (or maybe a few) in his sights.

maybe?
But he hasn't upgraded the backup PG spot yet.

Granted he could still trade Cato for some help but from all the reports, we are either going to keep Cato or waive him.

well obviously nothing's been finalized, but with all the shrewd moves JoeD has made over the years, i don't think (hope) that he would put the team at risk right in the middle of a championship season. like i said, my hunch, is that he's got someone in his sights.....and this whole deal was a ploy to upgrade backup PG, not necesarily dumping Darko (but that was a good byproduct of the deal).

of course, we'll wait and see what happens with our backup PG situation.

you say 'why keep him?' i say 'why move him?'

for that draft pick? i'd let his contract expire. hell, maybe the switch gets turned on, who knows?

in all likelyhood, that draft pick will net us a player that will contribute less than a MLE free agent would. if theres some guy joe has his eye on (ala tayshaun) im sure he could trade up.

of course, we could get the #6 pick, which would be nice. but we could get the #15 pick... which is more like 'who cares'.

hmmmmm

Prince, Delfino, Okur, and the crop this year........

Darko, White, Cleaves.........

Lets hope Orlando gets really good and we end up with the 25th pick.

Gee, where oh where are we going to find a backup pg that averages 3 pts and 3 assists on 36% shooting that plays absolutely no defense and makes 4+ million dollars a year?

So you want to replace him with a 35 year old career 39% shooter, coming off a major knee surgery just for the fact that he plays defense?


LOL at anyone upset that we lost Carlos Arroyo. You guys are hilarious.

LOL at anyone who thinks we can get by with Hunter (or Delfino, Prince) as our backup PG. You guys are delusional.

I think we're mostly pissed because we know more could have been had out of darko in terms of players..(harrington...those other players)

No one really knows whether or not we turned down Harrington or if we offered it and they turned us down. No one ever had a definitive answer.

Secondly, Darko sucks and everyone knows it. Does anyone think that we were just swamped with offers and Dumars just accepted this one?

Face it, this was the best that we could do. Dumars did not blow this trade, he blew the pick in the first place.

The reality of this deal is simply this: we save a large amount of money by doing this trade that we need to resign Ben and Chauncey. Davidson has ordered Joe D not to go over the LT at all, and this trade allows us to keep the more important players while still saving Davidson big bucks.

Its a salary dump nothing more. To say that it improves our team at all from a basketball perspective (shorterm or longterm) is assinine.

No that means its also unlikely that this is a prelude to a trade to shore up our bench, that would cost money too.

trainwreck, your implying that doing this trade is better than not doing this trade.

i, for one, think we were better off without it.

I think we're mostly pissed because we know more could have been had out of darko in terms of players..(harrington...those other players)

No one really knows whether or not we turned down Harrington or if we offered it and they turned us down. No one ever had a definitive answer.

Secondly, Darko sucks and everyone knows it. Does anyone think that we were just swamped with offers and Dumars just accepted this one?

Face it, this was the best that we could do. Dumars did not blow this trade, he blew the pick in the first place.


Put me on the train Wreck band wagon. This man is talking the truth tonight. I'll let him do my talking for me.

[smilie=anxious.gif]

I'm reserving judgement for now.Totally agree. Dumars ain't done fellow Pistons fans.

More info on the pick:

If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot.

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

Gee, where oh where are we going to find a backup pg that averages 3 pts and 3 assists on 36% shooting that plays absolutely no defense and makes 4+ million dollars a year?

So you want to replace him with a 35 year old career 39% shooter, coming off a major knee surgery just for the fact that he plays defense?


LOL at anyone upset that we lost Carlos Arroyo. You guys are hilarious.

LOL at anyone who thinks we can get by with Hunter (or Delfino, Prince) as our backup PG. You guys are delusional.

Absolutely. He at least plays defense. Arroyo does nothing. Seriously, the 2 main threats for us in the playoffs are going to be Miami and San Antonio. Whether you guys like it or not, Lindsey was going to get those minutes anyways going up against Wade and Parker.

Can someone tell me what benefit the Pistons get from waiving Cato? If his contract comes off the books at year end why waive him?

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

trainwreck, your implying that doing this trade is better than not doing this trade.

i, for one, think we were better off without it.

I'm not saying that it makes us a better team because we didn't get anything that will help us right now. I'm just saying that we traded 8 million dollars of useless crap and got a draft pick in return.

Joe loved Darko and defended him countless times. If he's ready to give up on him, than so am I.

Lost in all this is how good Kelvin Cato was last year. 7 pts, 7 rebounds, and 1.4 blocks a game in 24 minutes on 54% shooting?

If he got healthy, we could actually use him at times.

Why didnt we do this trade a bit earlier and sign Chucky for the minimum? i doubt we get a better backup than Atkins for free...if we cut Cato, who we trade for a PG ?? [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

@ anyone who thinks Darko will turn out to be a starter or even allstar...

http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0506ew5.htm

[smilie=2thumbsup.g:

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

while i do believe JoeD will address the backup PG position.....am i the only one who thinks that we might be able to do fine with guys like Delfino and Tayshaun handling the ball?

in Flip's offense, there doesn't seem to be a need for a traditional, handle the ball most of the time, PG. with the ball movement that is generated by the offense, everyone is a potential passer and assist guy.

Arroyo seemed to suffer BECAUSE he was a traditional PG....the guy who needs to dribble the ball a majority of the time and make most of the plays for everyone else. that seemed to be the reason he stuck out when he would "overdribble" the ball.

thoughts?

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

My thoughts are that if Billups go's down than we are screwed anyways. Having Prince and Delfino on the court would alleviate that problem, IMO.

Obviously we would be at a disadvantage on the defensive end having one of them check a PG but I love to see a PG try to check one of them.

I really don't think people realize how bad Arroyo has been this year.

So if we cut Cato, who we trade for a PG ? [smilie=anxious.gif]

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

while i do believe JoeD will address the backup PG position.....am i the only one who thinks that we might be able to do fine with guys like Delfino and Tayshaun handling the ball?
in Flip's offense, there doesn't seem to be a need for a traditional, handle the ball most of the time, PG. with the ball movement that is generated by the offense, everyone is a potential passer and assist guy.

Arroyo seemed to suffer BECAUSE he was a traditional PG....the guy who needs to dribble the ball a majority of the time and make most of the plays for everyone else. that seemed to be the reason he stuck out when he would "overdribble" the ball.

thoughts?

Nope, I'm with you there. We run a motion offense and are always making the extra pass and are flat out unstoppable. Than Arroyo comes in, dribbles for 18 seconds and passes to whoever (usually McDyess) and than he shoots.

It's the complete opposite of what we usually do.

More info on the pick:

If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot.

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

That doesn't seem to make sense unless I am misreading it. the way I read it it sayd, if the pick is No.5 or better the Magic keep it, however if it is not five or better the Pistons acquire the 2008 pick,

I believe it should read that if it is No.5 or better Orlando keeps their 2007 pick and Detroit recieves their 2008 pick.

Basically exactly what we've been saying.

I hate the trade too. I actually didn't mind Arroyo and I've always been a Darko basher, but I was holding out hope that he might contribute (way) down the line. Now we have no serviceable backup PG and another washed up pointless big man (Dale Davis being the other). The Darko pick now becomes easily the #2 worst draft pick of all time (behind Bowie over Jordan), and the jury is still out on that one considering the way that Wade is playing. I hated the Darko pick then, I hated it all along, I hated taking him over Wade, Carmelo, and Bosh, I hated his puss ass play and pouty attitude, I hated the slick hair and the frenchie mustache, AND I HATE THIS FREAKING TRADE! [smilie=angryfire.g:

I think we could have sold some whack teame on Darko's upside and got at least a solid player that could distance us from the pack and all but assure us the title.

Joe D better have something else up his sleeve.

[smilie=shootingsol: [smilie=freedarko.g: [smilie=rocketlaunc:

Praise Joe, Love Joe, Trust Joe etc.

People have said it for years but now when he turns around and trades 2 pieces of shit for a Lotto pick in a strong 2007 Draft and 1 big expiring contract he suddenly lost his mind?

Whatever.

[smilie=shootingsol: [smilie=freedarko.g: [smilie=rifle.gif]

alright, now that's pretty damn funny [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

I hated his puss ass pouty, I hated the slick hair and the frenchie mustacheHe shaved his head and his mustache.

Fuckin scumbag. He should have done that earlier. He'd still be a Piston.

Why didnt we do this trade a bit earlier and sign Chucky for the minimum? i doubt we get a better backup than Atkins for free...if we cut Cato, who we trade for a PG ?? [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

@ anyone who thinks Darko will turn out to be a starter or even allstar...

http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0506ew5.htm

[smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Thats my biggest problem with this whole thing. Oh well. Chucky would have been a good signing.

BTW, does anyone need me too point out Arroyo's stats this year again? He sucks. 3 pts, 3 assists, no defense, and 36% shooting????? He's a frickin bum. Also, can someone show me an article that confirms the fact that we were the ones that turned down Al Harrington and that it wasn't the other way around?

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

while i do believe JoeD will address the backup PG position.....am i the only one who thinks that we might be able to do fine with guys like Delfino and Tayshaun handling the ball?
in Flip's offense, there doesn't seem to be a need for a traditional, handle the ball most of the time, PG. with the ball movement that is generated by the offense, everyone is a potential passer and assist guy.

Arroyo seemed to suffer BECAUSE he was a traditional PG....the guy who needs to dribble the ball a majority of the time and make most of the plays for everyone else. that seemed to be the reason he stuck out when he would "overdribble" the ball.

thoughts?

Nope, I'm with you there. We run a motion offense and are always making the extra pass and are flat out unstoppable. Than Arroyo comes in, dribbles for 18 seconds and passes to whoever (usually McDyess) and than he shoots.

It's the complete opposite of what we usually do.

add to that Arroyo is a foul magnet and he seems to get his layups blocked 50% of the time.

i really think we're looking at this from the wrong angle. this wasn't a Darko trade as much as it was an Arroyo trade. i mean, what was the rush to get rid of Darko? none. the rush to upgrade Arroyo, however, was because the trade deadline was approaching and the playoffs aren't too far away.

I hate the trade too. I actually didn't mind Arroyo and I've always been a Darko basher, but I was holding out hope that he might contribute (way) down the line. Now we have no serviceable backup PG and another washed up pointless big man (Dale Davis being the other). The Darko pick now becomes easily the #2 worst draft pick of all time (behind Bowie over Jordan), and the jury is still out on that one considering the way that Wade is playing. I hated the Darko pick then, I hated it all along, I hated taking him over Wade, Carmelo, and Bosh, I hated his puss ass play and pouty attitude, I hated the slick hair and the frenchie mustache, AND I HATE THIS FREAKING TRADE! [smilie=angryfire.g:

I think we could have sold some whack teame on Darko's upside and got at least a solid player that could distance us from the pack and all but assure us the title.
Joe D better have something else up his sleeve.

[smilie=shootingsol: [smilie=freedarko.g: [smilie=rocketlaunc:

Yeah, you're probably right. Teams were probably offering all kinds of good talent for Darko and we took this trade.

Face it, Darko blows and this was the best we were going to do.

Praise Joe, Love Joe, Trust Joe etc.

People have said it for years but now when he turns around and trades 2 pieces of shit for a Lotto pick in a strong 2007 Draft and 1 big expiring contract he suddenly lost his mind?

Whatever.

Preach on.

I wonder how many other fans would be pissed when their team traded away their 9th and 13th best players for a possible lotto pick.

Its hard for some of his biggest fanatics to grasp this. Other GM's in the league saw the same crap. His blind followers kept on feeding us excuse after excuse and now are attacking Dumars for trading him. What a bunch of idiots.

Thats what I see trainwreck. We get a lotto pick for one of the worst NBA players. Thank you Orlando for being that stupid.

question: when is the trade deadline?

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

while i do believe JoeD will address the backup PG position.....am i the only one who thinks that we might be able to do fine with guys like Delfino and Tayshaun handling the ball?
in Flip's offense, there doesn't seem to be a need for a traditional, handle the ball most of the time, PG. with the ball movement that is generated by the offense, everyone is a potential passer and assist guy.

Arroyo seemed to suffer BECAUSE he was a traditional PG....the guy who needs to dribble the ball a majority of the time and make most of the plays for everyone else. that seemed to be the reason he stuck out when he would "overdribble" the ball.

thoughts?

Nope, I'm with you there. We run a motion offense and are always making the extra pass and are flat out unstoppable. Than Arroyo comes in, dribbles for 18 seconds and passes to whoever (usually McDyess) and than he shoots.

It's the complete opposite of what we usually do.

add to that Arroyo is a foul magnet and he seems to get his layups blocked 50% of the time.

i really think we're looking at this from the wrong angle. this wasn't a Darko trade as much as it was an Arroyo trade. i mean, what was the rush to get rid of Darko? none. the rush to upgrade Arroyo, however, was because the trade deadline was approaching and the playoffs aren't too far away.

Darko for a lottery pick is fine....but how we upgrade our PG situation without giving up anyone we like? that means just about everyone beside Cato and a pick?

Its hard for some of his biggest fanatics to grasp this. Other GM's in the league saw the same crap. His blind followers kept on feeding us excuse after excuse and now are attacking Dumars for trading him. What a bunch of idiots.

It amazes me. The only hope anyone had for Darko was that Joe still believed in him. Now Joe traded him which now means that everyone in Detroit (except for Zeebneeb) realizes what many of us were saying 2 years ago.

Well, I'll have to edit my post.

I'm reading that if the pick is Top 5 in 2006 the Magic keep it (and they likely will suck that much) and we get a 2008 unprotected pick.

WTF?

A 2007 pick would have been awesome but by the 2008 Draft Orlando could be decent.

They're clearing money for the Lebron Class of free agents.

The thing that could save us here?

Darko would be on their books at 300% of his last salary due to the rookie contract.

But if they dump Francis, Hill, Garrity, Battie and Darko before the 2007 free agent class (or at that time) then they'll have mega money to play with.

The last time they had a ton of cap room they got Hill and Tracy McGrady.

This is a bigger risk than I first thought but I'm still (only barely) on the side that thinks this is a good move for us.

question: when is the trade deadline?February 23rd...one week left.

question: when is the trade deadline?

Not entirely positive, but the 23rd of this month rings a bell. We do have a week for Dumars to work his "magic". Jason Terry would be really nice...

question: when is the trade deadline?February 23rd...one week left.


question: when is the trade deadline?

Not entirely positive, but the 23rd of this month rings a bell. We do have a week for Dumars to work his "magic". Jason Terry would be really nice...

ok, then i'm reserving judgement on this whole ordeal until then or if JoeD makes a move before then.

question: when is the trade deadline?February 23rd...one week left.


question: when is the trade deadline?

Not entirely positive, but the 23rd of this month rings a bell. We do have a week for Dumars to work his "magic". Jason Terry would be really nice...

ok, then i'm reserving judgement on this whole ordeal until then or if JoeD makes a move before then.

That might be the prudent thing, to do, but what fun is that??

[smilie=uzi.gif] http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20040610/dumars1_70038.jpg [smilie=rocketlaunc:

DAMNIT! [smilie=angryfire.g:

So what is the official word on the pick protection?

I'm reading from you guys that it's Top 5 in 2006 and if they keep it we get their 2007 pick.

I'm reading on ESPN and Yahoo that it's Top 5 protected in 2006 and if they keep it we get their 2008 pick.

Which is it?

It makes a huge fucking difference.

As for trading Cato: I doubt that's happening. He's more likely to be waived (which will piss me off)

Has anyone thought Mo Evans could be traded?

Delfino seems to have the back-up swingman minutes on lockdown and Evans is a luxury that we could lose for a back-up PG.

And all of you bitching about Joe need to STFU

He's not perfect and I've bashed him for his Drafts often enough but when was the last time he got screwed in a trade?

Think about that - he's always come out on top when making trades. ALWAYS!

And if he suddenly decided that Darko was never going to be anything in the league then why are people bashing this trade?

Bash the fact we picked Darko in the first place.

If we got it right in 2003 this wouldn't be happening.

(we likely don't win the title either though)

It's top 5 protected in 2007, unprotected in 2008.

I would bet Evans is moved with a TE for a low rent PG like Murray.

I would expect Hoiberg to brought in as insurance if Evans is dealt.

I could see Detroit waiving Cato and signing a healthy PF like Antonio Davis if he is waived just in case.

And all of you bitching about Joe need to STFU

He's not perfect and I've bashed him for his Drafts often enough but when was the last time he got screwed in a trade?

Think about that - he's always come out on top when making trades. ALWAYS!

And if he suddenly decided that Darko was never going to be anything in the league then why are people bashing this trade?

Bash the fact we picked Darko in the first place.

If we got it right in 2003 this wouldn't be happening.

(we likely don't win the title either though)

The last time he got screwed in a trade? How about when he gave up a 1st to get Arroyo in the first place? That and the Corliss debacle.

And all of you bitching about Joe need to STFU

He's not perfect and I've bashed him for his Drafts often enough but when was the last time he got screwed in a trade?

Think about that - he's always come out on top when making trades. ALWAYS!

And if he suddenly decided that Darko was never going to be anything in the league then why are people bashing this trade?

Bash the fact we picked Darko in the first place.

If we got it right in 2003 this wouldn't be happening.

(we likely don't win the title either though)

There is always a first time for everything.



But on a serious note, I don't think anyone regrets losing Darko. It's the fact that we traded Arroyo without getting someone in return that bothers everyone. Atleast that's the case with me.

Skelly - are you certain of that protection?

Chances are we get the pick in 2007, probably around 8.

That makes the deal IMO.

Joe didn't get screwed in the Utah deal. We gave up Elden and a first for Arroyo.

We then got Elden back. So we gave up the #30 pick to Utah for Arroyo? I don't think that's getting screwed.

The Corliss trade? Dice was here so Corliss had no role. We saved some money in the deal so where is the screwing?

Some of you have short memories or are just emotional right now. Either way I disagree that this move is bad for us...

IF Skelly's protection post is FACT

I would bet Evans is moved with a TE for a low rent PG like Murray.
We can't trade Evans because we can't rely on Delfino to stay healthy.

IF Skelly's protection post is FACT
That's according to Marc Stein, Chris McCoskey, A. Sherrod Blakely, WDFN, and all media outlets basically.

I'm Just gonna Trust Joe and go for the ride, reguardless of how I feel about the trade.

Like Trainwreck said, Either Mr. D want's to be a tight ass, or Joe realized Darko was tanking it (because thats also a possibility) and made it clear he would not give 100% here.

I really don't think it was that Darko sucked enough for Joe D to trade. If a guy is clearly telling you or showing you he is unwilling to compete for your organization, what other choice do you have then to bench him or trade him?

As for the no back-up PG thing:

Arroyo rarely played - what's the big deal?

IF Billups goes down we were screwed with or without Arroyo so I don't see the problem there.

Saving money and getting a Lotto pick while still contending for the title?

Can't expect more than that when we're dealing 2 guys that don't fit here and one of them hasn't shown shit in 2 and a half seasons.

Skelly - are you certain of that protection?

Chances are we get the pick in 2007, probably around 8.

That makes the deal IMO.

Joe didn't get screwed in the Utah deal. We gave up Elden and a first for Arroyo.

We then got Elden back. So we gave up the #30 pick to Utah for Arroyo? I don't think that's getting screwed.

The Corliss trade? Dice was here so Corliss had no role. We saved some money in the deal so where is the screwing?

Some of you have short memories or are just emotional right now. Either way I disagree that this move is bad for us...

IF Skelly's protection post is FACT

Well, I obviously agree completely agree with the trade but we did get screwed in the Corliss trade.

Also, if we never traded to get Arroyo in the first place, than we never would have had to package him with Darko just to dump him. I just think that Darko alone would net us a better package than Darko + Arroyo. Not a big deal.

Not all Joe's trades have been good but most have been tremendous.

i agree hunter is better than arroyo. but losing arroyo weakens our team.

if billups goes down, we might struggle just to get the ball across the timeline. arroyo could atleast given us a leg to stand on if billups goes down. now...?

while i do believe JoeD will address the backup PG position.....am i the only one who thinks that we might be able to do fine with guys like Delfino and Tayshaun handling the ball?
in Flip's offense, there doesn't seem to be a need for a traditional, handle the ball most of the time, PG. with the ball movement that is generated by the offense, everyone is a potential passer and assist guy.

Arroyo seemed to suffer BECAUSE he was a traditional PG....the guy who needs to dribble the ball a majority of the time and make most of the plays for everyone else. that seemed to be the reason he stuck out when he would "overdribble" the ball.

thoughts?

Nope, I'm with you there. We run a motion offense and are always making the extra pass and are flat out unstoppable. Than Arroyo comes in, dribbles for 18 seconds and passes to whoever (usually McDyess) and than he shoots.

It's the complete opposite of what we usually do.

add to that Arroyo is a foul magnet and he seems to get his layups blocked 50% of the time.

i really think we're looking at this from the wrong angle. this wasn't a Darko trade as much as it was an Arroyo trade. i mean, what was the rush to get rid of Darko? none. the rush to upgrade Arroyo, however, was because the trade deadline was approaching and the playoffs aren't too far away.

Darko for a lottery pick is fine....but how we upgrade our PG situation without giving up anyone we like? that means just about everyone beside Cato and a pick?

I guess I think our PG situation was upgrade by this trade. Arroyo is horrible.

Praise Joe, Love Joe, Trust Joe etc.

People have said it for years but now when he turns around and trades 2 pieces of shit for a Lotto pick in a strong 2007 Draft and 1 big expiring contract he suddenly lost his mind?

Whatever.

Preach on.

I wonder how many other fans would be pissed when their team traded away their 9th and 13th best players for a possible lotto pick.

Also I would like to say that when I said Darko was our 13th best player, I meant no disrespect to Alex Acker [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Not all of them have been good, but he has never been screwed IMO.

The majority here think he got screwed.

I completely disagree, especially if Skelly is right on the protection.

Anyone got a link for the protection?

Because right now if I believe Skelly (and I should) then that means in 2007 we're getting a quality player out of this trade.

That probably doesn't calm the emo crowd here but the rest of you sane people should be ahppy.

Orlando is not gonna go from being completely shit to being a playoff team in 1 season.

They'll go from being bottom 3 to being bottom 10 and I can handle that.

"If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot."

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

So it's either 2006 or 2008.

I agree with Pharoah on this one. The salary cap figures are going to get high when we re-sign Billups 2 years from now. It would have been hard to keep Darko around and Arroyo's $4 million salary wouldn't have made it any easier.

Let's face it, Darko was never going to amount into anything in Detroit. We keep him here, he'll sit the rest of the year. I thought we were pretty much all in agreement that Darko had to get out of here.

And in the Carlos Arroyo "yay or nay" thread, most of you voted no to him. Now you are upset to see him gone? Joe is going to bring another guy in here, for a MUCH cheaper price.

In the end, we pick up a very good draft pick. Why would you be upset that the pick isn't in 2006? This is a very weak draft class because no high schoolers are allowed, no strong lottery candidates AND we have no use for rookies in our lineup. The same thing would happen as Darko and Maxiell. Talented kid, no room to play. We would have brought a veteran back-up point anyways. In 2008, the draft is much richer as highschool players are forced to attend college AND we will need that pick as our current lineup is getting old.

H1Man - that's exactly what I'm talking about.

2008? WTF

That pick could be anywhere.

IF they get mega cap space for the 2007 free agents, plus add the 2006 and 2007 picks then we're gonna get fucked in this deal.

By the time the 2008 Draft rolls around we'll be looking at a pick somewhere between 13-20

Unless of course Orlando fails to improve and this turns into another Memphis thing.

It's possible Darko sucks in Orlando and possible Arroyo doesn't produce much for them.

Arroyo has 1 decent NBA season on his resume.

Darko has none.

But still, a pick in 2008? WTF

"If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot."

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

So it's either 2006 or 2008.

Doesn't "next year" mean 2007? Because "this" year is 2006?

Again, McCoskey, Stein, Blakely have all said top 5 protected in 2007, no protection after that.

Blakely's weblog:

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/

"If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot."

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

So it's either 2006 or 2008.

Doesn't "next year" mean 2007? Because "this" year is 2006?

Again, McCoskey, Stein, Blakely have all said top 5 protected in 2007, no protection after that.

I thought they meant next year as in 2006 because we are still technically in the 2005 season. I might be wrong though.

"If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot."

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

So it's either 2006 or 2008.

Doesn't "next year" mean 2007? Because "this" year is 2006?

Again, McCoskey, Stein, Blakely have all said top 5 protected in 2007, no protection after that.

Good catch Skelly.

Isn't it weird that it's February and I still didn't realise next year = 2007.

Lack of sleep must be the reason.

That's tricky wording though. Whenever I hear "next year," I think, next season. So when you think of the pick for next season, you think of the one in 2006.

But in terms of the draft, "next year" means 2007.

It's all so clear now.....

Dumars planted Darko in Orlando on purpose. Darko is going to sabotage Orlando's '08 season, netting us the Greg Oden pick. Then Darko will sign with us for the Vet's Minimum, and let the dynasty begin. ALL HAIL DUMARS!

[smilie=anxious.gif]

I am pretty sure Oden is coming out in 2007, so you can cross out that possibility.

I am pretty sure Oden is coming out in 2007, so you can cross out that possibility.

I've been hearing he plans 2 years of college. But I guess the temptation of being a number 1 lock will convince him when the time comes.

john hammond was on jamie and brady this morning. unfortunately, the recording program on my laptop was screwed up. here are the highlights:

he spun the deal as the deal being a "fair" deal for Darko, in terms of opportunity for him to play. he defended Darko as far as a hard worker in practices. he reiterated Darko's difficulties as being viewed as a side show here in Detroit. when asked if the Darko trade could be simplified as purely a financial move to resign ben and chauncey, hammond adamently denied it. he didn't hint at having a backup PG in their minds, although he said they'd "make some calls and will probably receive some calls". he said, "i wouldn't say that we're DEFINITELY going to do something", regarding the backup PG. he said that he told orlando that "he's still got a tremendous up side".

It's not that he did or didn't have the talent and it's not about the playing time he did or didn't get. While he was out there, he looked winded. He didn't look like he gave a damn. He just went through the motions, expecting PT. That wasn't gonna fly in the D. Kinda sad to see him go because I wanted him to pan out but whatever. Hopefully Joe doesn't blow the pick he got for Darko.

Ok so did Hammond say why now? Did Darko and Arroyo's value only go down if they waited? I was no fan of either but why upset chemistry and things now? I still will reserve judgement until after the trade deadline.

Ok so did Hammond say why now? Did Darko and Arroyo's value only go down if they waited? I was no fan of either but why upset chemistry and things now? I still will reserve judgement until after the trade deadline.

well, he didn't say anything outright, like "darko demanded a trade" or anything like that.

Ok so did Hammond say why now? Did Darko and Arroyo's value only go down if they waited? I was no fan of either but why upset chemistry and things now? I still will reserve judgement until after the trade deadline.

I don't think this upsets chemistry. Well, in terms of Darko anyway. Seems like the players/coaches were getting tired of his act. I think the locker room will miss Arroyo. Seems like he was the "jokster". But even with the loss of him I don't think the chemistry will be affected. Maybe if it were one of the big 6.

2 points of interest:

1) Darko reportedly asked to be traded;

2) Pistons reportedly pursuing Claxton, Lue, or Knight for Cato

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/SPORTS0102/602160362/1004/SPORTS

I also question the people on here who are acting like Joe just took the first trade offer he heard. He is the GM. He gets calls every day! Joe evaluated what was available and made the best decision for this team. He's not an idiot. I think the reason people are mad is because they feel that we could have gotten more for the trade. No one knows that, and the one that does made the trade. Joe is not sabotaging the Pistons. This will make us better, somehow, in the long run. Joe's track record shows that.

I am actually one of the few that are happy the pick is not this year. #1, we've talked about the lack of highschoolers making the draft weaker. For every high schooler not taken, that's one more solid player that doesn't fall to us. #2, if we had a high pick this year, that player would be in the same boat as Darko is/was here. They'd be stuck behind a bunch of vets and barely play at all. The only position we could have drafted is a PG that would actually see PT, and even that would be 10-15 minutes max backing up Billups. Not to mention since we'll probably get another PG in here this year, they might not have played at all (supposing we get Watson, Knight or someone that would stick around a few years). any swingman drafted would compete with Delfino, and any big man would be in the same position as Darko. So why does everyone want a pick so soon?

Not only would there be no room for PT, we've got Amir, Max and Acker still to develop. Either that draft pick is behind them, or we wasted those picks on guys who will never develop either.

Then you have the salary side of it. Any future pick pushes back the worries of taxes and cutting players. Why are you guys in a hurry to add another salary to this team that forces Joe to cut someone?

For all these reasons, I like that the pick is not this year. The only way it truly sucks is if the Magic become a playoff team for the next couple years. We all know Grant Hill is fragile, that Francis will probably be traded for young guys, and that Darko still has a long way to go to be a solid pro. I could see the Magic being decent in a few years, but do you really think they are a playoff team in the next couple years? I don't.

I am worried about the PG spot though. I wasn't a fan of Arroyo, but we need someone capable of replacing Billups for a couple games if he sprains an ankle or something. Joe knows this too, and will do something about this.

Overall, I'm not estatic about the deal, but if it's the best we could get for Darko I guess it will do. His stock wasn't going to get any better. Assuming Orlando does not become a playoff team before we get the pick...then this deal will be pretty good. If they do, we get screwed. Even then, Joe has shown he's better with late first rounders anyway. What if this gets us another Prince, Delfino, Okur type player?

I also question the people on here who are acting like Joe just took the first trade offer he heard. He is the GM. He gets calls every day! Joe evaluated what was available and made the best decision for this team. He's not an idiot. I think the reason people are mad is because they feel that we could have gotten more for the trade. No one knows that, and the one that does made the trade. Joe is not sabotaging the Pistons. This will make us better, somehow, in the long run. Joe's track record shows that.

I simply can't believe a useless expiring contract and an unknown future draft pick is the best deal possible. If it is, then you don't make the trade.

If Milicic asked to be traded you do one of two things. You sit him down and tell him that offers are way too low for what we believe his talent level is. You tell him you will trade him if he starts applying himself - keeping his head in games, working like a fiend in practises. What about showcasing him during some games?? We're up 10 games on anybody in our division - I say screw worrying about HCA vs the West and play the kid. If we play the kid and he shows flashes of his talent, maybe we could have traded him for help this year and future bounties. If you simply cannot do that - why not hold an open practice and show him off - even if he hasn't progressed one iota since his pre-draft tryout, that would be damn impressive and piqued interest enough for more of a bidding war.

Instead we traded the kid for his benefit out of the goodness of our hearts.

I simply can't believe a useless expiring contract and an unknown future draft pick is the best deal possible. If it is, then you don't make the trade.


I don't know whether that's the best we could get for him. Obviously it is the best we could get for him this year. Lets suppose it is the best we could get for him though, and that his stock would have fallen even more next year...

Would you do this deal if you knew for sure this was the best we'd EVER get for Darko?

I would. Unless Darko has a life changing experience and suddenly gets the additude of Mad Max, he isn't going to be good enough for Joe to sign him to a big deal and let one of our other bigs go. He just isn't. His shitty mentality hasn't changed in 3+ years, what's going to change in another year?

Like I said, I don't know if this is the best we could get. But if it is, I sure hope everyone on here would do it. Otherwise we get jack shit for him.

2 points of interest:

1) Darko reportedly asked to be traded;

2) Pistons reportedly pursuing Claxton, Lue, or Knight for Cato

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/SPORTS0102/602160362/1004/SPORTS

For some reason i could see claxton here. Not sure why, just a feelin.

Didn't some people want to trade Darko for Knight straight up?

One thing is absolutely, 100%, unquestionably for certain. If Dumars can't get a back-up PG then the following quote is the God's honest truth.


Here's how we're planning on addressing the shortage.

Flip will publicly say that he's gonna give a good chunk of mintues to Lindsey, Acker will get some real minutes, and Delfino/Tay will get some PG mins.

Then in the game:

Acker: 2 mins
Lindsey: 4 mins
Billups: 42 mins

for the rest of the season.

john hammond was on jamie and brady this morning. unfortunately, the recording program on my laptop was screwed up. here are the highlights:

he spun the deal as the deal being a "fair" deal for Darko, in terms of opportunity for him to play. he defended Darko as far as a hard worker in practices. he reiterated Darko's difficulties as being viewed as a side show here in Detroit. when asked if the Darko trade could be simplified as purely a financial move to resign ben and chauncey, hammond adamently denied it. he didn't hint at having a backup PG in their minds, although he said they'd "make some calls and will probably receive some calls". he said, "i wouldn't say that we're DEFINITELY going to do something", regarding the backup PG. he said that he told orlando that "he's still got a tremendous up side".

So if I am reading that correctly, if Hammond is telling the truth, and he keeps to his word, then there should be no reason that Cato is waived. None.

I wonder what Krista Latham thinks of this trade.

I wonder what Krista Latham thinks of this trade.

I think that's my cue...

http://freepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/SPORTS03/602160553


DARKO DUMPED: Milicic, Arroyo traded to Orlando

BY KRISTA LATHAM, PULITZER CANDIDATE
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

February 16, 2006

For 2 1/2 seasons, the Pistons touted Darko Milicic as a long-term project. But Wednesday night, that unproductive and highly scrutinized project was abandoned.

After a day of on-again, off-again negotiations, Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars finalized a trade sending Milicic and backup point guard Carlos Arroyo to the Orlando Magic for injured center Kelvin Cato and a top-five protected pick in 2007. The pick has no protection beyond that. Cato's $8.6-million contract comes off the books this summer.

Pistons coach Flip Saunders said the team had not determined whether it would keep or waive Cato, an eight-year veteran averaging 3.8 points and 2.7 rebounds and who has been sidelined for all but 23 games with foot, ankle and shoulder injuries. He is recovering from a cracked bone in his right foot and might be able to play again this season.

Either way, with Cato's expiring contract the Pistons will have more salary-cap flexibility to re-sign center Ben Wallace this summer and point guard Chauncey Billups next summer, when they will be unrestricted free agents.

Saunders said he viewed the deal as a win-win. The Pistons get cap space and a future player. The two departing Pistons get the probability of more playing time.

"You want to make a trade situation that's good for all parties," Saunders said. "And Darko and Carlos want opportunities to play more. I think they'd be content to stay here and be on a championship-type team, but the way the roster is set up and with their situations, it's not going to change. If they want to play and want to play more minutes, that wouldn't happen here for some time."

Milicic, the No. 2 pick in the 2003 draft, played in only 96 games, averaging 1.6 points and 1.2 rebounds. Milicic, a 7-footer from Serbia and Montenegro, was a polarizing topic for a team that usually made news because of its success.

Fans wanted more out of a rare No. 2 pick, even on a team that won a championship in 2004, went back to the NBA Finals in 2005 and is 42-9 at the All-Star break this season.

But with little room for playing time on rosters filled with veterans, Milicic sat on the bench. At times, he complained about his lack of playing time, but he also appeared to loaf when he got some.

So the debate over whether the Pistons should have selected Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh or Dwyane Wade -- who were drafted at spots three through five that year and have become stars -- reigned on talk radio and Internet sites.

The Pistons insisted they saw Milicic's potential. They preached patience.

"I don't think it changed," said Marc Cornstein, Milicic's New York-based agent. "I think they still believe in him. ... I don't think they gave up or are being impatient."

It ultimately came down to this: The Pistons couldn't handle developing a project for the future while holding onto their lineup of all-stars for championships today. Because Detroit's core of stars likely will be sticking together for the foreseeable future, Darko's situation didn't seem likely to change anytime soon.

So Dumars cut him loose.

"I still think he's very skilled," Saunders said of Milicic. "He could play 12 or 13 years in our league. He's a serviceable player. But it came down to we're gonna have to make a financial decision for the future."

And in return for a one-time No. 2 selection, Dumars received a draft pick down the road and salary-cap room immediately.

"I think it's an excellent thing from Darko's standpoint," Cornstein said. "He had a great opportunity from Detroit, learning from some of best coaches. He got to practice every day with great players like Ben (Wallace), Dice (Antonio McDyess), and Rasheed (Wallace). Now he needs to have experience, and now that's what he'll get."

Milicic was unavailable for comment. The Pistons and Magic play one more time this season, April 7 at Orlando.

Dumars said in a statement: "We feel like this is a good trade for our team and gives our organization flexibility as we move forward this season and in the future. ... Darko is a young player and I think he's going to get an opportunity to play in Orlando. I wish him the best going forward."

Even though the Pistons might end up watching Milicic develop into a productive player -- or maybe even a star -- alongside Magic forward Dwight Howard, the trade brings up a slightly more pressing issue. Without Arroyo, who was well liked by his teammates, the Pistons have vulnerability at the point.

Arroyo arrived last season via a trade with Utah. As Billups' main backup, he played in 90 games. His time dropped from 17.7 minutes last season under Larry Brown to 12 minutes under Saunders.

Arroyo's problem was consistency. At times, he would run the offense efficiently, make dazzling passes, get players involved and stay away from turnovers. Other nights, he dribbled away the shot clock, tried to force plays and mishandled the ball.

But without Arroyo, the Pistons have only veteran Lindsey Hunter backing up Billups. An injury would mean trouble, but Saunders said he was comfortable with his new lineup.

"We've done some things in practice where we'll play a bigger lineup, playing a two at the point," Saunders said. "And even the development of (rookie Alex) Acker at practice, in certain situations, we might not be afraid to play him some."

Dumars also said he was comfortable with the risk. He also has until Feb. 23 to work another trade that could bring in a point guard. Cato could be used in such a trade.

And risk is nothing new to Dumars.

At the time of the 2003 draft, Dumars saw the risk in selecting Milicic, but deemed it worth it. Here was a 7-foot center, just barely 18, with coveted skills that seemed earmarked for NBA stardom. He could run. He could play facing the basket. He had inside-outside range.

Dumars wasn't alone. He has often said he believes almost any other team would have picked Milicic after LeBron James. No one then knew how good Bosh or Wade would be. At the time, the obvious competition to Milicic was Anthony.

It's impossible to predict how the Pistons would have fared with any other player. It's not as if they did too shabby with Milicic on the bench, going to back-to-back NBA Finals and winning one title.

As time went on, finding time to develop Darko became harder. Dumars didn't know on draft night that he'd later swing a trade for Rasheed Wallace. He also didn't know -- although he always had a hunch -- his team would rise to such elite levels.

Nor could Dumars have predicted the lax effort Milicic showed on the floor when he did get minutes. Milicic was given his chance this season to earn time under Saunders, who, unlike Brown, is not afraid to play young players if they earn that responsibility.

But after playing well -- and with good effort -- in the exhibition season, Milicic's body language changed in the regular season. That sleepy, slow-footed body language did not go unnoticed by the front office.

And shortly into the season, Milicic's time shrank to lower levels than ever. On Wednesday, it ended for good.

PULITZER CANDIDATE

Nice [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

I'm also awaiting the arrival of a certain Gutz Callahan, who loved telling us all that we were crazy for talking about Darko getting traded.

We need to start a countdown to Dice getting traded for cap space thread. Fuck money bags in the members only jacket right in his big hairy dumbo ears.

We need to start a countdown to Dice getting traded for cap space thread. Fuck money bags in the members only jacket right in his big hairy dumbo ears.

Ben's not getting the max and Chauncey isn't getting the fat extention. You know this.

"We've done some things in practice where we'll play a bigger lineup, playing a two at the point," Saunders said. "And even the development of (rookie Alex) Acker at practice, in certain situations, we might not be afraid to play him some."

Delfino running the point? I hope so.

We need to start a countdown to Dice getting traded for cap space thread. Fuck money bags in the members only jacket right in his big hairy dumbo ears.

I bet that happens next. This ownership isn't serious about winning. They just lucked out with picking Dumars as GM. I'm pretty sure that Dumars hiring was a publicity stunt to sell tickets and they got very lucky.

Bobcats were interested in Darko.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/basketball/nba/charlotte_bobcats/13884031.htm


Bobcats coach-general manager Bernie Bickerstaff said he spoke with the Detroit Pistons about Darko Milicic's availability, but the price was too high. Bickerstaff wasn't willing to part with high draft picks he considers the franchise's future.

Does anyone get the feeling that if we acquired someone like Bosh that they would have traded Prince to make salary cap space for him? Now that I look back upon the Dorko pick, we were in a no-win situation because of the cheap old geezer.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/SPORTS03/602160603/1082


MITCH ALBOM: With clock ticking, Darko had to go

February 16, 2006

He was the firecracker that we watched as kids, standing in a circle, hands in our ears. It fizzled. It went poof.

"Is that it?" we asked.

Darko Milicic never exploded. You knew it. I knew it. Anyone who watched him play over the years knew it. He looked tentative. He looked lost. With that long, nimble frame, you kept wanting him to turn into something great, someone worthy of being one pick behind LeBron James, so much so that any little move he made -- one dunk, one block -- was greeted with "Aha! There's the potential!"

And there goes the potential -- after fewer than 100 regular-season games and a career average of less than two points a night. It was only three years ago that Joe Dumars and Rick Carlisle sat by a TV in a New Jersey arena and hollered with joy when Detroit got the No. 2 pick in the draft lottery. The two men walked down the tunnel high-fiving each other.

But time moves quickly in the NBA. Carlisle is gone. Now, so is Darko. And if this was a rare miscalculation by Dumars, you have to say this: He doesn't sit around and let mistakes fester.

"It was time to move on," Dumars said Wednesday night in an e-mail. He pulled the trigger with the philosophy that has guided his so-far stellar reign in Detroit: Don't be afraid to say good-bye.

Darko wasn't going to contribute

Remember, this is the same Pistons president of basketball operations who parted with beloved Grant Hill, who dealt superstar Jerry Stackhouse, who gave up on previous first-round picks Mateen Cleaves and Rodney White. Dumars has overhauled the entire roster since his arrival, including several big-name coaches. He doesn't get sentimental. He can't afford to. And the one thing you can say about those who leave here: They rarely go on to prove Dumars wrong.

"There was not one moment," Dumars answered when asked when he knew it was time to pull the plug on The Darko Experiment. "It was simply evaluating the situation over the past 2 1/2 years and coming to the conclusion that it would be best for both sides."

Remember, the clock is always ticking in the NBA, toward free agency, toward middle age, toward the inevitable flame-out of a coach.

Darko was not going to make a difference this season. Dumars saw that. New coach Flip Saunders hasn't been able to milk anything more out of the 7-foot Serbian than Larry Brown did. And once this year is over, the Pistons have money issues with Ben Wallace as a free agent and Chauncey Billups likely to seek a contract extension.

It's a wonderful thing to have the best starting five in the NBA.

But it ain't cheap to keep them.

Darko simply didn't work out

So the Pistons gain cap space here, plus a future first-round pick, plus another big body in Kelvin Cato from Orlando, a veteran whose contract is expiring, but still has career numbers three times those of Darko. He could provide depth. Carlos Arroyo will be missed, but backup guards are not hard to find.

As for those who say the Pistons blew it with Darko -- they could have drafted Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade instead? Well, factually, that's true. But had that happened, these Pistons wouldn't be these Pistons, because somebody else would be gone. And these Pistons, during Darko's stay, have one championship and one near-championship.

It's hard to argue the results.

"We loved his talent when we drafted him, but it didn't work out here in Detroit," Dumars wrote.

It's best for Darko. It's best for the Pistons. It just wasn't best for Darko and the Pistons. Maybe others want to harp on what could have been. Dumars seems intent on looking forward and betting that the boom we never heard in Detroit won't be haunting him any time soon.

Does anyone get the feeling that if we acquired someone like Bosh that they would have traded Prince to make salary cap space for him? Now that I look back upon the Dorko pick, we were in a no-win situation because of the cheap old geezer.

Not really. If we got Bosh, Dyess would be gone, or never here at all. If we drafted Melo, Prince wouldn't have gotten this big of an extension (less PT with Melo here) and we wouldn't be worried about it. If we had Wade, we wouldn't have traded for Arroyo and his bad contract.

We are in this position only because Darko provided nothing to this team but hope. If he was in the rotation, we wouldn't have acquired players like Dyess or Arroyo and our cap problem wouldn't even have been an issue IMO.

This could have been written by diddy. LOL and LMAO


Leonard (New Haven, CT): Will you take full responsibility for Darko's collapse?

Chad Ford: (12:15 PM ET ) Sure. I wrote back before the draft that Darko had as much potential as LeBron James and that the Pistons made the right call passing on Carmelo, Bosh and Wade to draft him. Clearly I was wrong. However, contrary to public opinion, I didn't discover Darko (there were already a ton of scouts in Serbia before I arrived), I didn't draft him (Joe D doesn't consult me on his draft choices) and I didn't refuse to play him in Detroit (Larry Brown isn't taking my calls either). I writing about him in glowing terms before the draft led to his collapse, then I'll take the blame.

"If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot."

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5335384

So it's either 2006 or 2008.

Doesn't "next year" mean 2007? Because "this" year is 2006?

Again, McCoskey, Stein, Blakely have all said top 5 protected in 2007, no protection after that.


Thats what I was thinking, but everyone else was saying the opposite, so I didnt question it. I feel less dumb [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Here's one by NBA Expert, Will Perdue...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-060216


Life begins at 20

By Will Perdue
ESPN Insider

The Orlando Magic have their man. They, like more than a few organizations, had long been interested by the possibility of getting ahold of Darko Milicic and seeing what he can do.

The Magic now have a pair of intriguing 20-year-olds in the frontcourt. If Dwight Howard ends up being the next Tim Duncan as some predict, then the Magic won't necessarily need big-time numbers from their center position.

So even if Milicic turns out to just be a decent player, it will be a good acquisition for the Magic. If he puts up anywhere from 8-12 points per game and the same amount of rebounds per night, it will help. The team did not get what it expected coming into the year from Kelvin Cato and Mario Kasun. Tony Battie has done a good job in the center role, but the Magic probably would like to use him off the bench.

We don't know what to expect right away from Milicic. I haven't seen anything skill-wise to offer any comparisons to, say, a young Dirk Nowitzki. But the Pistons have seen him in practice, and have been impressed.

In doing more than a dozen of his games for ESPN, here's two things I've noticed.

• I've never seen the kid smile.

• I've never seen him put himself through a hard workout before a game, never seen him go toe-to-toe, working out with a coach. I've always been a little surprised by that. You will usually see the bench guys getting in their workout before the game. Could be a European thing.

This is a no-lose for Orlando. And Detroit got what it needed out of the deal -- salary cap room to use for its veteran players.

A change of scenery can help. Phil Jackson had me pegged as a rebounder and defender in Chicago, but when I went to San Antonio, Bob Hill and Gregg Popovich didn't have those limited expectations. They proposed that I could do more than I did before.

It was a breath of fresh air.

I think that's how Milicic can view this move. He's going to have every chance to succeed in Orlando. The coaches will do whatever it takes to help him thrive in the system.

Here's one by NBA Expert, Will Perdue...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-060216


Life begins at 20

By Will Perdue
ESPN Insider

The Orlando Magic have their man. They, like more than a few organizations, had long been interested by the possibility of getting ahold of Darko Milicic and seeing what he can do.

The Magic now have a pair of intriguing 20-year-olds in the frontcourt. If Dwight Howard ends up being the next Tim Duncan as some predict, then the Magic won't necessarily need big-time numbers from their center position.

So even if Milicic turns out to just be a decent player, it will be a good acquisition for the Magic. If he puts up anywhere from 8-12 points per game and the same amount of rebounds per night, it will help. The team did not get what it expected coming into the year from Kelvin Cato and Mario Kasun. Tony Battie has done a good job in the center role, but the Magic probably would like to use him off the bench.

We don't know what to expect right away from Milicic. I haven't seen anything skill-wise to offer any comparisons to, say, a young Dirk Nowitzki. But the Pistons have seen him in practice, and have been impressed.

In doing more than a dozen of his games for ESPN, here's two things I've noticed.

• I've never seen the kid smile.

• I've never seen him put himself through a hard workout before a game, never seen him go toe-to-toe, working out with a coach. I've always been a little surprised by that. You will usually see the bench guys getting in their workout before the game. Could be a European thing.

This is a no-lose for Orlando. And Detroit got what it needed out of the deal -- salary cap room to use for its veteran players.

A change of scenery can help. Phil Jackson had me pegged as a rebounder and defender in Chicago, but when I went to San Antonio, Bob Hill and Gregg Popovich didn't have those limited expectations. They proposed that I could do more than I did before.

It was a breath of fresh air.

I think that's how Milicic can view this move. He's going to have every chance to succeed in Orlando. The coaches will do whatever it takes to help him thrive in the system.

Nice...A big white gump analyzing another big white gump.

2 points of interest:

1) Darko reportedly asked to be traded;

2) Pistons reportedly pursuing Claxton, Lue, or Knight for Cato

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/SPORTS0102/602160362/1004/SPORTS


[smilie=master_emot:

He does make a good point about Milicic not having fun - ever. He was completely miserable here. Even when the rest of our guys were going nuts on the bench from a big play or in a tight game, Milicic was just sitting there looking like his dog just got run over. Which is why I still think he'll get a helluva lot closer to reaching his potential than being a bust.

I'm going to be a big Milicic fan and know this move is great for him. It's just too bad Milicic couldn't work out here and that Joe sold low.

He does make a good point about Milicic not having fun - ever. He was completely miserable here. Even when the rest of our guys were going nuts on the bench from a big play or in a tight game, Milicic was just sitting there looking like his dog just got run over. Which is why I still think he'll get a helluva lot closer to reaching his potential than being a bust.

I'm going to be a big Milicic fan and know this move is great for him. It's just too bad Milicic couldn't work out here and that Joe sold low.

honestly, if Darko were anywhere else, i'd quietly hope he does well too. however, since our 07 or 08 draft pick is contingent on the Magic sucking, i'm hoping he blows up no sooner than three years :D

He does make a good point about Milicic not having fun - ever. He was completely miserable here. Even when the rest of our guys were going nuts on the bench from a big play or in a tight game, Milicic was just sitting there looking like his dog just got run over. Which is why I still think he'll get a helluva lot closer to reaching his potential than being a bust.

I'm going to be a big Milicic fan and know this move is great for him. It's just too bad Milicic couldn't work out here and that Joe sold low.

honestly, if Darko were anywhere else, i'd quietly hope he does well too. however, since our 07 or 08 draft pick is contingent on the Magic sucking, i'm hoping he blows up no sooner than three years :D

I hope he doesn't blow up at all. Fuck him. When Vince Carter pulled that tanking shit in toronto, he's a bad bad man. When Darko pulls it, it's ok? Fuck that shit, fuck Orlando, and fuck him. Fuck Bill Davidson if this was a luxury tax move.


Fuck [smilie=freedarko.g:

I've seen a few Pistons fans drop the "I'm an Orlando fan now too" bullshit since the deal went down.

If you say that then I'm sorry, you were never a Pistons fan, you were nothing but a Darko fan, IMO.

Who said that? I want you to name names.

Visit some Orlando boards and you'll see some Pistons fans saying that.

The ones that I've seen myself I've never noticed before, but they have Pistons avs/Mich locations in their profiles.

Joe D on the Inferno right now.

Running miss-quoting:

"I wasn't gonna get rid any of the big 3 to let Darko play. So he had to go."

"I'm not gonna beat up on the guy, yeah he could have tried harder, but wasn't gonna play in front of any of those 3."

"Ackers very good, this isn't some fly-by-night thing with Acker. We are very high on him."

"I wanna be 12 mill under the tax to sign Ben and Billups. This trade puts me 15 under."

"There is only a handful of guys I'm looking at. If I can't get one of those 2 or 3 guys, we are staying with Lindsay and Acker for those 10-12 minutes."

"Billups is gonna get 36 minutes. I don't know if we will get another PG or not."

"Starter minutes are down about 2 minutes from last year. Our plan was to push hard till the AS-break and then gear up, get Linsday and Davis ready, the second half."

"Can we get Eldon back? No."

"What about the pick? Orlando wanted full lottery protection for an 06 pick and wouldn't move. So I (Dumars) said give me a top-5 protected pick in 07."

I'm not saying I am a Magic fan, I'm a Milicic fan just like I am a Iverson fan, just like I am a KG fan, just like I am a Bosh fan, just ling I am a Luol Deng fan, Chris Paul fan...

No worries Key, I wasn't talking about you.

FYI- That sig, while within your rights to use, makes your posts difficult to read at work.

Check your PMs.

Thanks fool, listening to the stream right now.

i'm most definitely not an Orlando fan, but since he's been in the league, i've thought Darko had the talent to be an above average player. i'd like to see him be good in 3 years, just to satisfy my ego that i can evaluate talent :D

but no earlier than 3 years.......either than or Darko blows up, Dwight Howard regresses and Orlando becomes a cellar dweller in the East until we get our draft pick.

Visit some Orlando boards and you'll see some Pistons fans saying that.

The ones that I've seen myself I've never noticed before, but they have Pistons avs/Mich locations in their profiles.

Fuck them. They're not allowed on the bandwagon once the playoffs start. They can stay @ orlando and talk about how much they'll suck next year, and how bad it is that we have their pick. Fuckers.

Uggh...

Joe Dumars is only talking about money.

UGGGGH...

He said he "might" pick up a pg with a salary of $2-$4 mil.

Not good.

If we end up standing pat we won't win the title, IMO.

I don't want that sick feeling again like I had after game 7 last year.

i hope JoeD is just putting up smoke screens about maybe getting a PG. although if he wants to field offers from other clubs, he might have been better off announcing their need for a PG, so teams would start calling him. but then again, he might be playing coy so that the pistons don't come across as desperate to other teams looking to trade.

Joe D on the Inferno right now.

Running miss-quoting:

"I wasn't gonna get rid any of the big 3 to let Darko play. So he had to go."

"I'm not gonna beat up on the guy, yeah he could have tried harder, but he wasn't gonna play in front of any of those 3."

"Ackers very good, this isn't some fly-by-night thing with Acker. We are very high on him."

"I wanna be 12 mill under the tax to sign Ben and Billups. This trade puts me 15 under."

"There is only a handful of guys I'm looking at. If I can't get one of those 2 or 3 guys, we are staying with Lindsay and Acker for those 10-12 minutes."

"Billups is gonna get 36 minutes. I don't know if we will get another PG or not."

"Starter minutes are down about 2 minutes from last year. Our plan was to push hard till the AS-break and then gear up, get Linsday and Davis ready, the second half."

"Can we get Eldon back? No."

"What about the pick? Orlando wanted full lottery protection for an 06 pick and wouldn't move. So I (Dumars) said give me a top-5 protected pick in 07."

I've quoted most of the call in my post above.

"I wanna be 12 mill under the tax to sign Ben and Billups. This trade puts me 15 under."

I think that pretty much settles the "maybe it wasn't a money deal" issue.

thanks, Fool.

Acker is kind of a wildcard here.

just heard it all too.

Besides that, he mentioned something very interesting. Mike said he wasn't allowed to talk about Brevin Knight because of tampering rules, but asked Joe if he would be interested in a PG that has 2 years of about 4 mil left and leads the league in AST/TO ration. Joe said he would hypothetically be on the phone with that GM today.

"I wanna be 12 mill under the tax to sign Ben and Billups. This trade puts me 15 under."

I think that pretty much settles the "maybe it wasn't a money deal" issue.


A fucking salary dump.

I think I need a vacation.

1 week, Joe.

thanks, Fool.

Acker is kind of a wildcard here.

So we may have a vet with a hobbled ankle, and a rook over a guy that has the ability to do more then both of them combined? I don't understand. I truly dont.

"I wanna be 12 mill under the tax to sign Ben and Billups. This trade puts me 15 under."

I think that pretty much settles the "maybe it wasn't a money deal" issue.


A fucking salary dump.

I think I need a vacation.

1 week, Joe.

Joe has been mentioning the money issue alot lately. I think it's his way of telling the public (mainly fans) that his hand was forced. That he had no choice but to give up on Darko because if we kept him we'd be compromising our core.

We both know Joe wasn't ready to give up on Bitcho. Dumbo is trying to hold on to chump change at all costs, even the championship and our future.

Why are you guys jumping on Joe about the salary. I'm sure he'd spend a hundred million like Isiah does if he could. It's not his call.

At any rate, the salary dump only matters with Arroyo. Darko was a waste of salary and we got a pick to replace him. Basically you are talking about getting nothing for Arroyo. But he didn't fit our system anyway, and only played 10 minutes a night. What's the big harm here? Hunter can be as effective as Arroyo in those 10 minutes. I think Delfino can do even better. So why are we freaking out?

The two pieces that we traded could have been traded for something to help up THIS YEAR.

Yeah, yeah the pick is nice in 2008 or whenever it is, but if Joe doesn't turn Cato and/or the pick into a rotation player for THIS CHAMPIONSHIP, I'm pissed.

I like Arroyo fine enough, but I don't care about losing his flimsy production, and you know I don't care about losing Darko himself. It's the value proposition that I don't understand.

Why take a chance that we "might" be good enough to win it, why not damn near ensure it?

The two pieces that we traded could have been traded for something to help up THIS YEAR.

Yeah, yeah the pick is nice in 2008 or whenever it is, but if Joe doesn't turn Cato and/or the pick into a rotation player for THIS CHAMPIONSHIP, I'm pissed.

Who would have traded for Arroyo? He has a crap contract. What could we possibly get for him?

If you think we could get more for Darko, I understand. I just don't see how people think Arroyo gone is so bad. What did he honestly provide to us besides and occasional pick and roll?

Packaging the two of them together should have been able to produce one solid rotation player IMO.

So that didn't happen, I'm okay as long as what we got in return (Cato's deal and a future pick) is able to net us the same, a solid rotation player, for THIS YEAR.

Does anybody else want to win the title THIS YEAR or would you rather hope to have a shot at it in 2008?

Fuck, I'm going to lunch.

Bickerstaff has said that he'll move Brevin Knight - it's just a matter if we have what it takes to make it happen. I always figured Charlotte would have wanted Arroyo in return, and now they'll probably ask for Acker, as they'll need somebody to back-up Spencer, as well as the Minnesota 2nd rounder we really have no use for.

The benefit to trading with Charlotte is that they have room under the cap to take Cato's contract on without having to ship us anything else.

Cato was supposedly pissed leaving Orlando yesterday, basically surmised because he won't get any PT when healthy to earn his next contract. With Charlotte having a lot of bigman injuries - this makes certain basketball sense for them as well.

Is Cato close to returning?? What exactly is wrong with him.

**EDIT** Did a little asking around and he has a broken bone in his foot, but was said to be back with Orlando after the All-Star break. If he is ready to come back, I think it increases the chances Charlotte would be interested in him and our trade package.

I expect something to the effect of Cato, Acker and the Minnesota #2 for Brevin Knight.

There was no talk of Prince or Delfino running the point, from what I heard.

Not good.

If we end up standing pat we won't win the title, IMO.

I don't want that sick feeling again like I had after game 7 last year.

Then lay off the game-day nachos, fatty . . .

Packaging the two of them together should have been able to produce one solid rotation player IMO.

So that didn't happen, I'm okay as long as what we got in return (Cato's deal and a future pick) is able to net us the same, a solid rotation player, for THIS YEAR.


I can understand that, but what 8 mil rotation player is available?

Not good.

If we end up standing pat we won't win the title, IMO.

I don't want that sick feeling again like I had after game 7 last year.

Then lay off the game-day nachos, fatty . . .

SNIPER




I can understand that, but what 8 mil rotation player is available?

I made all of my suggestions in the "fun with Cato" thread.

Hell, if they can get a better rotation player for Mo Evans I wouldn't be opposed to moving him instead.

Pistons always benefited staying flexible on the financial side...if Darko,Arroyo and one of our first round picks turn out to be an upgrade at PG over Arroyo (->Knight), enough caprelief so we can resign both Ben and Chauncey and stay under the tax, and a good Pick 07 or 08, Joe D again did everything right.

Two questions that I haven't seen asked/answered anywhere yet, and some others that probably have been asked.

1. Did we waive the need for Cato to pass a physical to get this deal done?

2. Does anybody here think that, if healthy, Cato would be a better "Shaq stopper" than Dale? If so, could we move Dale instead, and what kind of value does he have?

I assume that Davis has minimal value this year because of the overinflated deal that Joe gave him (but luckily his value improves next year when his deal becomes expiring, doesn't help us this year though).

Are there any teams out there that are desperate enough for a big man that they would want Dale in exchange for a quality PG? What about Dale and Mo Evans for Earl Watson? Denver needs bigs and SGs, we need a PG.

Also, I know that this has been asked, but exactly how serious is Cato's injury and when was Orlando expecting him to return?

If we did that deal above, we'd still be weak at SF though. I suppose Chuancey could play some 2 when Watson was in and Delfino could play the 3 against certain opposing 3's.

Billups/Watson/Hunter
Rip/Delfino
Tay/Free Agent pickup?/Amir?
Sheed/Dice/Maxiell
Ben/Cato

Inactive: Acker

It would be bad business for Joe to trade Dale.

Even to a solid playoff team that many consider to be a contender?

Why? We gave him more money than anybody else ever would have, and then we send him into a primo situation where he could actually contribute (start?) on a playoff team?

Cato has a broken bone in his foot, but Orlando expected him back after the all-star break, so he has to be close. Considering that we view Cato as nothing more than cap fodder and a expiring contract, I'm pretty sure we would have waived the physical.

I agree that trading Davis would be bad business. I recall hearing where Dumars asked Davis earlier in the year if he was happy with his role on the team or if he's rather be traded and though Davis said he'd like to be playing some, he understood the situation when he came here and he'd like to stay.

I can't believe that Joe would basically tell Dale that if he signed here he'd be untouchable.

Dale took the money and the 2 year deal. Of course he's "content" to just sit and get paid if the other alternative is going to Toronto or Portland.

I don't think Joe would have hamstrung himself by guaranteeing Dale that he wouldn't be involved in a trade. But Joe has surprised me before I guess, like um, yesterday.

I think the plan was to use Davis as insurance this season and then deal him in the off-season/next season. I think Dumars gave Davis more money then we expected because Davis's expiring contract next year will be a tradeable asset - I further think Davis knew of the situation completly.

Why does everyone keep mentioning us getting Watson? He's another Arroyo with another bad contract.

From AS Blakely's blog:


Dumars on the trade...

Joe D. met with reporters this afternoon to discuss the Darko trade. Here are a couple of snipets from that.

(Joe on being disappointed, on a personal level, that things didn't work out with Darko)

“Not really, not from a personal level. I think my track record speaks that it’s business. It's nothing personal, it’s business. I' ll support it as long as I think it can work. When I get to the point where I think it’s probably not going to work, I tend to not hold on to it and force it. I don’t mind taking chances and coming up short. That’s the only way you can be great at something, if you’re willing to take risks to get out there and see if it works or not. If it doesn’t, I'll be the first to stand up and raise my hand and say, ‘it didn’t work.’"

He talked about how the team has received a bunch of calls from agents wanting to see if Detroit's interested in their point guard. Still, Joe D. cautioned that they'll look but they don't necessarily have to add another point guard. A lot of people have asked about, 'what if Chauncey gets hurt?' Well, the bigger concern appears to be Lindsey's health. If he goes down, than rookie Alex Acker is the team's lone point guard off the bench.

I have a feeling that the Pistons aren't going to do anything with the point guard situation. And if something does happen to Lindsey, I see them going the 10-day route ... so don't be surprised if you see a guy like Anthony Goldwire getting a call at some point between now and the end of the season.

Joe also talked about Kelvin Cato, who will report when the guys get back next week. His foot is still in a boot, but the Pistons aren't sure what they'll do with him. But they do know that they will not waive him.

That last sentence gives me hope that they learned something when they waived Coleman last year.

I just noticed that Cato is now our second highest paid player.

LMAO

I don't know if they learned anything from Coleman because the trade deadline is a whole week away in this scenario. I don't want him waived/released because I think a healthy Cato could catch on with and improve a rival contender, and I think he could be of value to us at sometime or another. 6'11" 280 is a big boy, and he's probably a little bigger now that he's been off his feet for awhile. If we can't trade him for a Brevin Knight, I'd rather keep him.

Either Joe Dumars is blowing sunshine up Ackers ass to improve any potential trade value or he legitimately likes the kids potential.

Also given that we have an open roster spot, I'd start auditioning pointguards right now. Can players on 10-day contracts be inactive though??

Bad Trade IMOgiving them two players. he coulda dumped them for more. thats all i got to say.

Funny thing is that i expect this pathetic darko talk to continue even with him in Orlando.

Bad Trade IMOgiving them two players. he coulda dumped them for more. thats all i got to say.

Funny thing is that i expect this pathetic darko talk to continue even with him in Orlando.

I'll let all the haters know how well his is doing in Orlando...

Bad Trade IMOgiving them two players. he coulda dumped them for more. thats all i got to say.

Funny thing is that i expect this pathetic darko talk to continue even with him in Orlando.

no doubt. we overanalyzed every second he was on the floor. pistons fans are lying if they say they're not at all curious as to how Darko will play over in Orlando. i'll be watching.

Bad Trade IMOgiving them two players. he coulda dumped them for more. thats all i got to say.

Funny thing is that i expect this pathetic darko talk to continue even with him in Orlando.

I'll let all the haters know how well his is doing in Orlando...
i never hated the kid. but i also didnt give a shit about whether he was the next big thing or not. loving him or hating him is retarded either way. ya'll dont even know much about the fuckheaded milk breath kid. so i always find the extremists on this a lil puzzling.

worst part about is this that i actually do hate kelvin cato. fucc him.

^^ As will I.

Here's to hoping Delfino can handle the rock.

Not wanting to start it's own thread, I'll ask it here - Did anybody catch the ASB interview on 1270 today??

Also, do you think this will actually have a solidifying effect on the team. I mean McDyess must have always sorta felt like the odd man out because he was likely the player moved if Milicic ever was moved to a more prominant roll. This move tells him that he is a Piston and not a mere stopgap.

Also Joe Dumars is going to meet with Cato on Monday to discuss this situation. Does that mean anything - will he not be traded before then, or if he is not traded by then is he staying sorta deal?? Dumars said he'd be the fifth bigman off the bench if he stays and that he certainly will not be waived.

Here's a great blog entry by WTF poster Lee McPherson.

http://www.mlive.com/weblogs/beyondthearc/


Dumars, Darko and the draft...oh my.

In the aftermath of the trade that sent Darko Milicic and Carlos Arroyo to Orlando Wednesday, there was some pretty tense fan debates raging about Joe Dumars' draft history and whether or not picking Darko was a mistake, and how that ultimately plays into the big picture for the Pistons.

A familiar refrain from some is that when it comes to the draft, Dumars sucks, and the nearly comical failure of Darko to produce anything at all isn't the only evidence of that, just the most obvious example, given his high draft status in a class that's already produced three All-Stars out of the top five players selected (LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade), and one other player that probably should've been picked this year (Carmelo Anthony).

Outside of James, who went first overall, the Pistons could've had any one of the other three, but passed on them to take a chance on Milicic, and on numbers alone, they couldn't have fanned worse if they tried. Darko has scored about the same amount of points in his career (115) the other four usually combine for on any given night.

At the break, Anthony, Bosh, James and Wade were averaging 26, 22.5, 31.2 and 27.4 points per game, respectively.

Moreover, you'll hear the same people wonder why, as a rule, Dumars and the Pistons can't draft like the Spurs or the Suns. The prevailing opinion seems to be that not only do the Spurs and Suns draft well, they have rosters stocked with "home grown" talent. In the case of the Spurs, the heady contributions of Argentina's Manu Ginobili and France's Tony Parker have stoked the belief that the Spurs not only draft better, but they have a better eye for foreign talent, as well.

Maybe so.

But, in the end, what piqued my curiosity is not so much the charge that Dumars can't draft, but that this inability has somehow adversely affected the Pistons' to be as successful as possible.

Currently, the top four teams in the NBA, record-wise, are Detroit (42-9), Dallas (41-11), San Antonio (40-12) and Phoenix (35-17).

Of the four, the Pistons have the highest number of players originally drafted by them still on the roster, six, including Lindsey Hunter. Three of those draftees (Hunter, Tayshaun Prince, Carlos Delfino) are in the main playing rotation, although Alex Acker may join that group if Dumars' stated desire to nab a replacement backup PG for the departed Arroyo doesn't pan out.

The Spurs, on the other hand, have four players they originally drafted on their roster, three in their rotation. In terms of impact, the Spurs' three rotational draftees (Tim Duncan, Ginobili, Parker) bring far more to the table than do the Pistons'. Duncan and Parker both made the All Star team this year.

The Suns have three players originally drafted, all three are in the rotation when Amare Stoudemire is healthy. Currently, with Stoudemire on the shelf recovering from knee surgery, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion are the remaining two. Nash was originally drafted by the Suns, traded to Dallas in 1998, then returned as a free agent signee prior to last season. Nash and Marion played in the All Star game Sunday, it's hard to believe that a healthy Stoudemire wouldn't have also made it, as well.

The Mavs have five players, including Rawle Marshall (Oakland University) and Pavel Podzkoldine. Dirk Nowitzki and Devin Harris technically weren't drafted by them, but were acquired in draft day trades. Josh Howard joins Nowitzki and Harris in the rotation. Nowitzki was an All Star this year.

Of 58 roster spots (Spurs are carrying 13), that's 12 contributing players for the top four teams originally drafted by those clubs, or 21%.

Each of the other three teams are getting more bang for their buck from each of their contributing draftees than are the Pistons. The failure of Darko to force his way into the playing group in two years and change, especially in light of the successes of his 2003 draft mates, seems to lend itself to the argument that Dumars, who excels in nearly every aspect of running a team, really falls short when it comes to plucking players in the entry draft.

The problem I have with this whole argument is not necessarily the assertion that Dumars' draft record is crap (though that bears a closer look), it's that it's an all-important factor that has precluded the Pistons from becoming a dynasty, as opposed to a really good team.

Bill Simmons of ESPN.com wrote this Friday in response to a reader:


For instance, Mitch Albom wrote on Wednesday, "As for those who say the Pistons blew it with Darko -- they could have drafted Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade instead? Well, factually, that's true. But had that happened, these Pistons wouldn't be these Pistons, because somebody else would be gone. And these Pistons, during Darko's stay, have one championship and one near-championship."

No offense to Mitch, but what the hell does that mean? Who would be gone? Why couldn't they have kept everyone and the No. 2 pick? You're telling me the last three Pistons teams wouldn't have been better off with Carmelo as a sixth man, Wade as a third guard or Bosh as the backup big guy ... especially last year's team, that was forced to play six guys in Game 7 of the NBA Finals? Really? You're making that argument with a straight face? Having a better player would have held the team back?
...
The bottom line: They could have won four or five straight titles with this current nucleus if Dumars didn't pass up three of the top-eight young assets in the league with that pick. As it stands, they're going to struggle to win two. That's why I believe that, other than Bowie-over-MJ, that was the most damaging draft-day decision of the last 20 years. And anyone who says otherwise is crazy.

Call me crazy.

For starters, something would have had to give, whether Simmons cares to see it or not. Had they picked Bosh instead of Darko (popular opinion is that they would've taken Anthony, but they wanted a big man, and were duly impressed with Bosh's personal workout) and watched him progress the way he has, then it's likely that they don't make the trade for Rasheed Wallace in February 2004, opting instead to roll with a frontcourt rotation of Bosh, Ben Wallace and Mehmet Okur.

It's also likely that with that frontcourt, they probably don't have a legit shot at winning the title that year. Probably not in 2005, either. Maybe this year, but who knows?

Sheed gave them a legitimately great frontcourt defender to pair with Ben, and that, more than anything, contributed to their title run. Okur is a nice young player, but nowhere near Sheed's level as a defender, and Bosh doesn't yet possess the strength or instincts to put the shackles on Duncan or Jermaine O'Neal, players he would've had to defend to help facilitate this run of titles Simmons suggests was likely.

Given that titles are not commodity items, the assumption that the Pistons, or any team not featuring Michael Jordan in his prime playing against a watered-down late 90s NBA, could win four or five straight 'ships is as ridiculous a notion as there is, especially given the fact that the Spurs are currently as good as they are.

Something else to consider: Since acquiring Sheed, the Pistons are 116-43 in the regular season, and 31-17 in the playoffs.

Would they be similarly successful without him? Doubtful.

If the Pistons had drafted Anthony, then maybe they still acquire Sheed, but then they would've still lost Okur to free agency following the 2004 season, given that they didn't own his Bird Rights, and couldn't go over the cap to sign him, or they would've signed him and bid Sheed adieu. That was an either/or situation. Going forward, they also would not have been able to keep Prince and Anthony. Prince was just signed to a five-year extension, and Anthony, one year behind him, is soon due for a hefty extension.

There is really no scenario in which the Pistons could've drafted one of the 2003 stars, traded for Sheed, and kept everyone together and happy. The hallmark of this current team is the remarkable congruity among their starting five, the league's best unit. They didn't achieve that until Sheed arrived, and their record since resoundingly bears that out.

Before his arrival, the Pistons were a decent team, but hardly among the league's elite. There are absolutely no assurances that had they passed on Darko and picked one of the other 2003 top draft picks, that things would've played out in the same manner.

Which leads me back to my original line of thinking...

If 21% of your draftees end up contributing something to your success, regardless if we're talking about Duncan or Hunter, you better be phenomenal at all aspects of the job (trades, FA signees, cap management, future projection), or it won't matter how well you fare in early July in New York every year.

Dumars took over the team in 2000, the year Grant Hill spurned them to sign with Orlando, but not until after that summer's draft had taken place. Thinking that he would be able to convince Hill to re-sign, he addressed the team's pressing need (point guard) in the draft, taking Michigan State's Mateen Cleaves at 14. Had Hill already split, Dumars would've likely selected another Spartan, Morris Peterson, to try and fill the void.

If he had picked Peterson that year, then maybe they don't pick Rodney White in 2001, opting instead to address a hole at point guard instead. Tony Parker, Jamaal Tinsley, Earl Watson and Gilbert Arenas were all available in that draft.

Having picked one of those players, and having Peterson in the fold, then maybe they don't feel a need to take Prince in 2002, nor sign Chauncey Billups as a free agent.

No one really knows how these things are supposed to turn out until they play out. Maybe things turn out better, or maybe Dumars is still trying to assemble a roster that works for him.

Utimately, though, whether it's Darko helping them get there through the draft or Sheed through trade, does it matter how the roster was built, and who eventually helps them succeed at the highest level?

Not when there is so much at stake, and not when there is so little assurance that drafting well means anything more than coming off more favorably on an message board.

i comletely agree with his take. There is a reason why time travel is likely impossible afterall. Anybody ever watch Back to the Future? One punch and the futhre is changed. Well looking at the NBA draft, one "better" draft by Dumars and the Pistons, if not the league could look radically different.

You can't simply remove Milicic and plug in Wade and assume Joe Dumars would have made the exact same moves. It's terribly ignorant to even consider such with any seriousness.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5345682


...And yet, for all of these intriguing NBA water-cooler topics, no second-half story is more captivating than the one lifting off in Orlando. That's right, chapter two of "The Darko Story" begins Tuesday versus Cleveland. With Darko Milicic jerseys selling like hotcakes on the Orlando Magic team Web site, it's obvious that the fans are amped and ready. The Magic front office is, too. Appearing on ESPN Radio's "Gamenight" last week, Magic senior VP Pat Williams was jumping out of his skin with optimism, "(Darko's) still 20 years of age. Can we reap the benefits? Can we take advantage and pluck one here?" … "We think the talent is there. The skills are there. He's still only twenty years of age. We're going to get him out on the floor and give him an opportunity. We're going to find out about this mystery man — who is Darko Milicic?!"

Darko's career is now at a crossroads. His legacy hangs in the balance.

At this crucial time in NBA history, I found it absolutely necessary to catch up with the men behind the blog, FreeDarko.com. When we last checked in with the brains behind the Darko-centeric Web site, they were waxing poetic about number 31. Back in September, they were hopeful for the 2005-06 season. And yet, half-way through the year, Darko's averaging a dissapointing 1.5 points per game, 1.1 rebounds per game, and a startling 5.4 minutes per game.

I caught up with the fellas over the All-Star Break for an exclusive interview. We discussed life, laughter, and all things Darko:

Peter Schrager: First off, was this the goal? Is Darko finally "free"?

FreeDarko.com's Bethlehem Shoals: In our hearts, no. Too many great international prospects have already fallen, and J.R. Smith languishes on the bench.

PS: What happened in the Free Darko world when the trade was announced?

Shoals: At first, nothing. I now see that we were all in denial, or in the throes of that most gut-wrenching of existential moments: fulfillment. When the emails of congratulations started pouring in, though, we knew our lives would never be the same. We then hurriedly began discussing a name change, which may or may not ever happen.

PS: What are your thoughts on all the knocks on Darko up to this point in his career? Any NBA Insiders in particular you'd like to call out?

Shoals: I tend to believe that people should exercise a little loving restraint when it comes to teenagers who grew up under the sign of bloodshed. The GM's should really be blamed for 97% of what goes wrong in the NBA, and Chad Ford should be writing spy novels.

PS: Darko and Arroyo or Cato and a Draft Pick? Discuss.

Shoals: Darko and Arroyo could be starters in this league, but Cato and the future pick won't distract you from trying to win a championship this year.

PS: Is Darko the next Jermaine O'Neal or the next Kwame Brown? Will the new team bring fresh opportunities or will it just be the same old thing?

Shoals: With all due respect to O'Neal, a top-tier talent and all-around class act, he should hope he ends up in the same category as Kwame, a true lamppost of history. Centuries from now, Jermaine O'Neal will be but another misplaced hero. Kwame, though, will forever be the No. 1 overall high schooler who dazed his way into tantalizing mediocrity and perpetual sadness. If Darko goes to his grave as the jester of the 2003 Draft pantheon, his immortality is a lock.

PS: Now that Darko's been traded, whose cause do you guys plan on taking up next?

Shoals: As an organization, we stand at a meaty crossroads: Have we finished the cause, or was our love of Darko merely an illusion, a songbird of wood? I personally would like some teams to get interesting, and fast, and for Amare to return safe and sound.

PS: Place the following names in order: LeBron James, Darko Milicic, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh

Shoals:

1. LeBron: He is basketball
2. Melo: Our common humanity
3. Darko: Made us a bit of money off those t-shirts
4. Bosh: I've been told that big men are the key to success
5. Wade: Like he needs any more adulation. And frankly, he's kind of boring.

PS: Will Darko be an All Star next year? An MVP?

Shoals: No, the coaches will shoehorn in all the Pistons starters just to keep Darko down. And no, Dwight Howard will sap votes from him.

PS: If Darko wasn't a basketball player, what would he be?

Shoals: You mean if he quit now, or if he'd never started? Either way, probably a dentist and/or a semi-professional zombie collector. He would dabble in cosmetics on the side.

PS: Will Darko go back to the blond highlights now that he's in sunny Orlando?

Shoals: He's probably going to have one hell of a chip on his shoulder, so look for some soft, patchy attempt at a Gasol-ish overgrowth. With blond highlights in that.

PS: Should Darko be in the Monday Night Football booth?

Shoals: I have so little sense of what currently qualifies someone to be on MNF that I can't confidently answer "no."

PS: It's almost Oscar season. If Darko were to star in a movie, what kind of movie would it be? Who are his co-stars? What is it called?

Shoals: A comedic love story in two parts. The first part: Darko, big-time, self-absorbed ballplayer with innards of shyness, falls for middle-aged schoolteacher (Angela Bassett) working with underprivileged kids. He learns the power of charity and the fruitfulness of total surrender. NOTE: He can only speak his native language, except for when he dresses up in a seven-foot tall corn-on-the-cob costume, which gives him a rudimentary command of only the most emotionally-charged words we have. Second part: Newly engaged, Darko and his femme journey to his homeland to ask for his extended family's blessings. She is kidnapped by roving Ukrainian gangsters (cast of the Russian film 'Brother'). Darko springs into action and spends a blistering hour trying to save her and/or send her corpse out to sea in a burning boat, since she loves Vikings. He is joined on this caper by his diminutive sidekick, a mercenary international basketball scout played by Topher Grace. I don't want to give away the ending, but the title would.

PS: Finally, what can we expect from Darko for the rest of the season?

Shoals: A fitting tribute to the efforts of all those who believed in him.

If you're not ready to jump on the Darko bandwagon, at least circle April 7th on your calendar. The Magic take on the Pistons in Orlando. Consider it "Darko's Revenge."

I gotta say it...LOL@Darko

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/local/orl-magic2106feb21,0,3363011.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines


Milicic glad for fresh start

Newly acquired Magic forward Darko Milicic might see some action tonight.

Brian Schmitz | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted February 21, 2006

CLEVELAND -- Darko Milicic might have felt out of place in his first practice with the Orlando Magic on Monday.

He certainly looked the part. He resembled a tourist who had returned from a weekend in Miami, sporting a nasty sunburn and peeling face.

"I fell asleep on the beach," he said, sheepishly.

It's just one of the many adjustments Milicic will have to make now that he's playing with a Florida-based team.

Milicic couldn't help but smile. He had left the cold -- and perhaps the cold shoulders -- behind in Detroit.

He knew it was time to find a new team, a new city and a new chance to prove himself.

And if he can burn the legions of skeptics along the way, all the better.

"This is the chance," Milicic said after practice at Quicken Loans Arena, where the Magic face the Cleveland Cavaliers tonight. "I feel good about it. Good guys, good players, good city. I want to show Coach how hard I want to play."

Last week the Magic acquired the 7-foot Milicic and point guard Carlos Arroyo from the Pistons for center Kelvin Cato and a first-round pick.

Magic Coach Brian Hill said Milicic and Arroyo both could play tonight. "I'd like to get them out there," Hill said.

That's fine with them.

Playing time -- or rather the lack of it -- was the issue with Milicic and Arroyo in Detroit.

Milicic, 20, took more heat because the Pistons invested a No. 2 draft pick in him in 2003, passing up the likes of Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade.

Milicic was sentenced to the bench by then-coach Larry Brown, seeing only mop-up minutes for 2 1/2 seasons.

He was lampooned as a bust.

In fairness, he was playing behind Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and, later, Antonio McDyess. The Pistons assembled a championship team and won the title in the 2003-04 season, leaving Milicic with little opportunity.

The Serbia native has played in only 96 games in his career, averaging a microscopic 1.6 points and 1.2 rebounds.

His spirits crushed, his attitude soured.

Milicic and the Pistons knew it was time to part.

"At the end, he was frustrated," said Marc Cornstein, Milicic's agent, on Monday. "Anyone in life would be. I think that happened with Darko.

That's our franshice player!

I love gold pants.

Hey Magic fanboy,

Shouldn't that be "golden" pants? Like in "golden shower"?

Jealous much?

This thread was dropping a little too far down the list.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basketball/nba/cleveland_cavaliers/13922923.htm


James hopes Orlando is magic for Milicic
No. 2 pick in 2003 Draft makes Magic debut

By Brian Windhorst
Beacon Journal sportswriter

CLEVELAND - One of the biggest storylines at this year's All-Star Game was the further emergence of the NBA Draft Class of 2003 with members LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in the game, and Carmelo Anthony as a top snub.

There was not a single mention of Darko Milicic, the once mysterious 7-foot Serbian who went No. 2 behind James in that blockbuster draft.

Tonight could be the start of a change to that or, then again, maybe not. No one is sure, except maybe the Detroit Pistons, who gave up on Milicic last week when they traded him to the Orlando Magic. His debut, along with point guard Carlos Arroyo, who also came over in the deal for center Kelvin Cato, will come tonight at Quicken Loans Arena.

Buried on the end of former Pistons coach Larry Brown's bench, Milicic made no inroads with new coach Flip Saunders and was averaging just 1.6 points in 25 games mostly in mop-up duty. For his career, he's played in just 96 games and averaged 1.6 points and 1.2 rebounds.

``I hope he's successful for Orlando representing our class,'' James said Monday after the Cavs' first post-All-Star break practice.

``We've done a great job and taken a good course in this league and I hope he does, too.''

The Magic are in the midst of trying to remake themselves after another disappointing season. There have been heavy rumors that star point guard Steve Francis could be traded before Thursday's trading deadline.

That isn't the Cavs' concern tonight. They are 2-0 against the Magic this season and are looking to get off to a good start after the time off. Last season, they lost six out of seven following the All-Star Game to start a hugely disappointing close to the year.

``They are going to be different,'' Cavs coach Mike Brown said.

``I have not seen much of Darko; I know he's skilled and he can shoot the ball.''

From last night's game recap on ESPN:


Hill said Darko Milicic, the No. 2 pick behind James in the 2003 draft acquired Feb. 15 with guard Carlos Arroyo from Detroit, will be given an opportunity to play -- but only after the third-year center learns the system.

Milicic had two points in four minutes and Arroyo was scoreless in five minutes.

"I'm happy to get another chance to play, to see what I can do," Milicic said. "In Detroit, it was horrible for me. A nightmare."

"In Detroit, it was horrible for me. A nightmare."

How ironic, Pistons fans can say the same thing.

Milicic is happy nightmare's over (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060222/SPORTS0102/602220389/1127)

Former Piston said he's looking forward to a fresh start, more playing time in Orlando.

Joanne C. Gerstner / The Detroit News

After languishing for 2 1/2 seasons at the end of the Pistons' bench, with little hope of playing, Milicic is happy.

And just a bit perturbed with his stay in the Motor City.

"It was a nightmare in Detroit, and now it is over," Milicic said Tuesday before his first game with the Magic, his new team. "It was not good. I never got to play no matter what I did. It was very hard, but it is over now and I do not want to think about it anymore. As soon as I leave Detroit, I get happier.

"This is good for me, I am happy I am here. They're a great group of guys and now I finally get a chance to play."

Milicic, in his first extended interview since being traded with Carlos Arroyo to the Magic on Feb. 15, said his time with the Pistons was emotionally trying.

Pistons president Joe Dumars still sees the potential in Milicic, but knew a trade was necessary.

"As I've said before, Orlando is going to be a good team for Darko," Dumars said Tuesday. "And I expect him to help their team."

Great expectations

Milicic reached a few highs - and many lows -- in Detroit.

Expectations soared when Milicic was selected as the No. 2 overall pick by the Pistons in 2003. He had just turned 18, and was a baby-faced high schooler from Serbia with a precious few words of English.

Many saw a bright future with the Pistons because of his lithe 7-foot frame and advertised -- but unseen -- skills.

The hype never matched reality for Milicic and the Pistons. He couldn't crack the rotation, eternally stuck behind Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess.

Former Pistons coach Larry Brown pounded on him mercilessly for two years during practice, trying to use old-school tough love to mold Milicic into an NBA player.

Milicic's confidence, however, withered, and at times, he bitterly and impatiently complained about the lack of playing time.

"In Detroit, I feel like a ball boy," Milicic, 20, said. "I never got the chance to play. Nobody gives me an explanation of why. I know they're a championship team, but I am in my third year. You can't tell me there wasn't a place for me to get five, seven minutes? But that's all past time now, now I'm here."

Milicic thought he might have a fresh start when the Pistons hired Flip Saunders to replace Brown. Saunders gave Milicic playing time during preseason, but formulated a very successful regular rotation sans Milicic.

"It was a bad time," Milicic said. "At first, I was happy because I was around good people. I can't forget the guys on the team and Joe (Dumars). But I just want to forget about the rest of it.

"It was a nightmare because I never got a chance to play. Two-and-half years and never a chance. I was working hard every day, knowing that I was never going to get a chance to play. It was a nightmare."

Milicic remembers the crowds at The Palace, sarcastically chanting his name when the Pistons were blowing out an opponent.

He remembers how local and national sports talk shows, Web sites and newspapers dissected his failures or incessantly compared him to more successful draft classmates Carmelo Anthony or Dwyane Wade.

A new team

Milicic's way of processing his time in Detroit is simple -- he's leaving it all alone.

The Magic are promising Milicic a fresh start, and more importantly, virtually guaranteeing playing time.

Magic coach Brian Hill used Milicic in the Magic's 105-92 loss to the Cavaliers. Milicic played nearly four minutes, scoring his lone basket on a pretty reverse layup in the second quarter. "That's the fewest minutes he's going to see all season," Hill said about Milicic.

Milicic, after the game, liked what he heard from Hill.

"That's good, I will get better as I play," Milicic said.

His new team is a far cry from the Pistons, with a 19-32 record and rebuilding.

They are young and willing to try different things to get the franchise turned around.

Which is exactly what Milicic wanted, prompting a celebration he found out about the trade while his vacation in Miami during the All-Star break.

"I was so happy, it was a very good day in Miami," Milicic said. "Everybody was happy for me."

Hill watched Milicic practice and was impressed with his shooting range from the perimeter.

Hill knows Milicic is a risk, a total unknown quantity. But he plans on bringing him off the bench, seeing how Milicic meshes with other young players such as Dwight Howard.

"The only thing we can do is give him an opportunity to play," Hill said. "And I think the last two years, obviously only he knows what he can do in practice situations. He doesn't know what he can do in game situations."We don't expect him to be a miracle worker right away or anything. But he has a great deal of potential. We just have to give him the opportunity."

"In Detroit, I feel like a ball boy," Milicic, 20, said. "I never got the chance to play. Nobody gives me an explanation of why. I know they're a championship team, but I am in my third year. You can't tell me there wasn't a place for me to get five, seven minutes? But that's all past time now, now I'm here."

I thought the same thing many times last season and obviously this season.

Makes me wonder ....

Wow he's falling off hard. Reminds me of Rodney White.

Darko has a good point. I don't know why we couldn't find him 5-7 minutes either. Plain stupid. He didn't expect to be a huge part of the rotation, just to play every night for 5 minutes. Was that really too much to ask?

He's got a shitty agent.

One of the first things Cornstein should have said to him after the deal was "Don't trash the Pistons on your way out".

For some reason, he's still got a lot of fans here, why say things that may alienate them or turn them against you?

Why wouldn't you take the high road?

How hard would this have been: "While I wish that it would have worked out differently for me in Detroit, I feel as though I really learned a lot from some great teammates and some great coaches. I look forward to putting all that I learned into action with this new opportunity".

Stupid.

Dosnt he remember getting 5-7 minutes during the beginning of the season and doing NOTHING.



Fuck that bitch. Bye Bye. Have fun, watch the sun burn.

LOL @ the first thing Darko did after moving to a team where he'll "get a chance to play" is go sleep on the beach all day.

SUPREME WORK ETHIC!

Opps, I mean I'm sure that doesn't imply anything about how hard the guy will work for the team with the brightest future in the league!

Gooooooo MAGIC!