http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/

Wednesday, February 15, 2006

Blakley...


DARKO, ARROYO UPDATE...The deal that will send Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic to Orlando for Kelvin Cato (and his expiring contract) and a first round draft pick is on the Magic right now. The Pistons have signed off on the deal, and are waiting to hear back from Orlando regarding the draft pick.

Detroit wants it to be a top-10 selection, while the Magic front office is deciding whether to give up this year's pick, or offer Detroit their 2007 first round pick.

If they offer the 2007 pick, that could blow up the entire deal. Detroit knows Orlando's pick in June will be a lottery pick, so that's the one they want. And considering they're giving up a former No. 2 pick and the backup point guard to the team with the league's best record, they want to make the draft pick as potentially high in the lottery as possible.

I spoke with a league official a few minutes ago who said the deal could be done as soon as today, but a lot right now depends on the Magic and how quickly (or willingly) their front office can reach a consensus on what to do.

This whole situation illustrates how Joe D. and company have it so much better than a lot of front office executives. Team owner Bill Davidson has an unbelievable amount of trust in Joe and his ability to make sound basketball decisions, and allows Joe to make these type of decisions without having to go through a lot of the red tape a lot of other GM-types have to do.

More details on this to come later today ...

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/

Wednesday, February 15, 2006

Blakley...


DARKO, ARROYO UPDATE...The deal that will send Carlos Arroyo and Darko Milicic to Orlando for Kelvin Cato (and his expiring contract) and a first round draft pick is on the Magic right now. The Pistons have signed off on the deal, and are waiting to hear back from Orlando regarding the draft pick.

Detroit wants it to be a top-10 selection, while the Magic front office is deciding whether to give up this year's pick, or offer Detroit their 2007 first round pick.

If they offer the 2007 pick, that could blow up the entire deal. Detroit knows Orlando's pick in June will be a lottery pick, so that's the one they want. And considering they're giving up a former No. 2 pick and the backup point guard to the team with the league's best record, they want to make the draft pick as potentially high in the lottery as possible.

I spoke with a league official a few minutes ago who said the deal could be done as soon as today, but a lot right now depends on the Magic and how quickly (or willingly) their front office can reach a consensus on what to do.

This whole situation illustrates how Joe D. and company have it so much better than a lot of front office executives. Team owner Bill Davidson has an unbelievable amount of trust in Joe and his ability to make sound basketball decisions, and allows Joe to make these type of decisions without having to go through a lot of the red tape a lot of other GM-types have to do.

More details on this to come later today ...

for the record.....i don't like the deal*



*if joeD has a plan to get a PG somehow, then disregard the above comment.

That makes it sound like Detroit isn't accepting any protection...

I recall hearing a week or so ago that Dumars really liked some kid in this years draft. It's probably one of the point guards(Rondo, Washington), but I could see it being JJ as well - the kid is as pure a shooter as I have seen.

I recall hearing a week or so ago that Dumars really liked some kid in this years draft. It's probably one of the point guards(Rondo, Washington), but I could see it being JJ as well - the kid is as pure a shooter as I have seen.

I always thought that Trajan Langdon was a can't-miss player too.

If Joe hurts our chances of winning a title this year to take a chance on anything less than a "can't miss " potential stud college kid, I think he'll regret it down the road.

I recall hearing a week or so ago that Dumars really liked some kid in this years draft. It's probably one of the point guards(Rondo, Washington), but I could see it being JJ as well - the kid is as pure a shooter as I have seen.

I always thought that Trajan Langdon was a can't-miss player too.

If Joe hurts our chances of winning a title this year to take a chance on anything less than a "can't miss " potential stud college kid, I think he'll regret it down the road.


I thought the same about Trajan but like Respert both were too short and lacked the strength to make it in the NBA. JJ is much different than those two as he is taller and can shoot over other NBA sg's.

A fanboy over at Orlandosite is saying that the Magic have traded Francis and Tony Battie to the NYK for Penny Hardaway, Jamal Crawford and Trevor Ariza.

If that is the case, Dumars better not accept any protection. They're in tanking mode and in trading Battie, Milicic is going to get forcefed minutes until he pukes(or fouls out)...

OK can I get a consensus here. Do we believe this deal is for cap room to sign players or do we think Dumars is going to get other players we need to win the title this year. I am trying to get a consensus on what the end game is and I have a hard time believing it ends with Cato and a draft pick.

thats more like it. its ridiculous for orlando to want a top 7 protection (lol) considering they're getting two players, a PG and 7 foot 20 y/o C for just an expiring contract. Hopefully Joe D sticks to his guns about this. Fuck protection. We need to get something out of this shitty deal than just cap space

Orlando has the 5th worst record in the league right now and check out their schedule from here on out...


Wed 15 Miami
Tue 21 @ Cleveland
Wed 22 @ New Jersey
Fri 24 Seattle
Sun 26 Houston
Tue 28 @ L.A. Lakers
Wed 1 @ Golden State
Fri 3 @ Phoenix
Sat 4 @ Denver
Mon 6 @ Utah
Fri 10 Cleveland
Sat 11 Golden State
Mon 13 @ Indiana
Wed 15 Utah 7:00pm
Fri 17 Boston 7:00pm
Sun 19 @ Atlanta
Tue 21 @ Charlotte
Wed 22 New York
Fri 24 @ Philadelphia
Sun 26 Atlanta
Tue 28 @ Chicago
Wed 29 @ Minnesota
Fri 31 Dallas
Wed 5 Milwaukee
Fri 7 Detroit
Sun 9 @ Miami
Mon 10 Atlanta
Wed 12 Toronto
Thu 13 @ San Antonio
Sat 15 Philadelphia
Mon 17 Chicago
Wed 19 @ Indiana

This pick had better be unprotected because who knows how high it could end up. This next strech could send them absolutely reeling into the gutter. ESPECIALLY if Darko is playing big minutes.

It's all a shame. I don't believe that dumars would throw away darko and their backup point guard for a protected pick and cap space. It just doesn't make sense. If Orlando wants Darko and Arroyo so much why not try a darko, arroyo and Dale davis for Steve Francis and throw out the draft choice?

It's a valid trade under the CBA, we get a solid scorer that can create and play the point. It's all such a shame.

I would have rather done Battie and a pick for Darko.

I would even be happy if we got Crawford and a pick for Darko and Arroyo.

I just don't get the cap saving elements of this deal. There has to be more to the deal. Hell if they have such a hard on to deal these guys, Gooden and Jones for Darko and Arroyo would have been better.

I know I am repeating myself but I realy didn't think all we could get for Darko is a bag of chips.

Right now, according to WDFN, its in the Magic's court.

Joe has signed off on the deal, providing its a top 5 or less protection.

OK can I get a consensus here. Do we believe this deal is for cap room to sign players or do we think Dumars is going to get other players we need to win the title this year. I am trying to get a consensus on what the end game is and I have a hard time believing it ends with Cato and a draft pick.

I'm firmly in the second camp saying that it's not a cap move. The team is to go over and stay over the cap to keep the core together. Given that, there will be no "cap space" whatsoever regardless of whether they keep Darko or not. For the foreseeable future, roster improvements will have to be draft choices, trades or exception spending (MLE, etc), re-signing existing players, etc... none of which require cap space. We won't be using the words "cap space" and pistons in the same sentence again until they break up the band.

I don't think there's been any evidence under the Dumars regime that Davidson will not spend to win. For example, when the Sheed deal needed a bag of cash at the last minute to make it happen, Davidson cut the check without hesitation. The man is not a tightwad. He won't just throw away money like the Knicks but there is every reason to believe that if Dumars asks for spending to keep them at the level of title contention, he will get it.

If Darko gets shipped out of town, it'll be for the sake of roster improvement, not penny pinching.l

shit, i hope they figure out something soon. everytime I step away from the computer, i rush back to see if there have been any developments [smilie=404.gif]

Right now, according to WDFN, its in the Magic's court.

Joe has signed off on the deal, providing its a top 5 or less protection.

What I would do is demand the only protection be top 3, or Top 5. Anything less I would ask for a second first.

There isn't going to be much savings really as we're going to have to pay top eight pick money and will probably have to use the MLE to fill a hole in the off-season.

Where I think we gain on this deal financially is two years down the road where Milicic would be pulling $9M, we'll still have our new rookie on their rookie deal.

I think we could deal Cato for a pg with one more year on their deal max(and then wouldn't use the MLE this off-season). Billups is the contract that will put us over the luxury tax threshold in a major way.

Right now, according to WDFN, its in the Magic's court.

Joe has signed off on the deal, providing its a top 5 or less protection.

What I would do is demand the only protection be top 3, or Top 5. Anything less I would ask for a second first.

Any protection on this years pick absolutely kills the deal in my mind. Orlando is going to tank the remainder of the season and would have decent odds at winning a top three slot. We don't get this years pick, we're looking at a 15-20 pick next season...

Gee the term cap space in this instance refers to the luxary threshold. When I and others use the phrase cap space or salary dump move it refers to Mr. D's unwillingness to pay luxary tax.

So you are right we won't have "cap" space but the deal helps but the organization stay under the threshold where you have to pay taxes. So if there is no second deal it is safe to assume it was about luxary tax not about solidifying the roster.

Yea, I want unprotected. Or maybe just #1 protected. I can't see them pulling the number 1 pick. Charlotte is way too injured and crappy to get out of that #1 pick.

Yea, I want unprotected. Or maybe just #1 protected. I can't see them pulling the number 1 pick. Charlotte is way too injured and crappy to get out of that #1 pick.

They'd still have the 3rd or 4th best shot at landing the top pick though. It's weird, when the game of chance(lottery) is in my favor, I never expect to win, no matter the odds. However when the luck of the situation is going to go against me, I always feel the worst will result.

I was gonna post something extremely long but decided not to.

I only have some questions:

How is Orlando a playoff team next season if they do the NY and DET deals?

Playoff contenders possibly include:

Detroit
Miami
New Jersey
Cleveland
Indiana
Boston
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Washington
and maybe even
New York (now with Frye, Curry, Francis, Marbury)

What free agent are they gonna sign?

Isn't the 2006 Free Agent class weak?

AND:

IF you believe the 2006 Draft is shit and the 2007 Draft is gonna be sick then why have a problem with the protection?

IF you have a problem with the protection then you obviously feel that the rookie they draft is gonna change their fate, which means you think that the 2006 Draft really isn't weak at all.

AND:

Can't Delfino handle some PG duties? Can't Prince?

Where is it written in stone that Hunter automatically gets all of Arroyo's minutes?

Fuck, this is long anyway but reason seems to be lacking in here.

Orlando as a playoff team in 2007? LMMFAO

I would disagree with you Gee, Mr. D has proven over the last few years he is not willing to spend what it takes. He is willing to spend a lot but not if he has to pay taxes.

I would imagine if you sat down in a room with NBA owners and said you can have the entire Pistons roster as it is but you need to pay 70 million instead of 56 that Mr. D is paying most would not hesitate to take on the added cost for this team.

It's going to be at least top 5 protected so we might as well forget about this top pick stuff.

There had better be something else behind this, point guard wise. I can't imagine rollin' the rest of the season with a brittle Lindsey Hunter as our backup.

Gee the term cap space in this instance refers to the luxary threshold. When I and others use the phrase cap space or salary dump move it refers to Mr. D's unwillingness to pay luxary tax.

So you are right we won't have "cap" space but the deal helps but the organization stay under the threshold where you have to pay taxes. So if there is no second deal it is safe to assume it was about luxary tax not about solidifying the roster.

I agree with both JS and geerussell. Dumars is in it to win this title this year. For sure he is keeping an eye on the future but not at the expense of winning today. There has to be more to this than what we have heard so far. He isn't stupid and won't be heading into the playoffs with Hunter as the sole backup PG. I am not big on letting Del and Tay bring the ball up the court should something happen to Billups or hunter.

I don't have faith that Boston or Philly are locks to be play-off teams, but i think Chicago will surely be one. You make a valid point though. Furthermore in considering that we won't have any room for a rookie to get any PT and are going to have to pay them to ride the pine just like Milicic did.

What I think the issue is, is that Dumars loves one of the PG's in the draft, and wants to draft an apprentice to play behind Billups for a year, just incase Billups gets some insaneo offer after next season and walks. We'd still be over the cap and at best could get a pg in on a MLE.

Question - do we still have a trade exception we can use or did it expire?

It's going to be at least top 5 protected so we might as well forget about this top pick stuff.

There had better be something else behind this, point guard wise. I can't imagine rollin' the rest of the season with a brittle Lindsey Hunter as our backup.

There is another PG. I'm guessing Dumars has a deal that involves Cato's contract, so as soon as he got the word that the PG spot would be filled that he signed off on the Darko deal. I'd expect to hear about a PG deal very shortly after this deal is done. It is NOT POSSIBLE that we would roll into the playoffs with nothing.

Could Joe flip Cato and the Orlando pick for a PG and another player as long as he does it within 48 hours?

Could Joe flip Cato and the Orlando pick for a PG and another player as long as he does it within 48 hours?

Yes because the deal doesn't involve another player just a pick.


From the CBA FAQ...
The legal combining of exceptions sometimes creates the appearance of teams getting away with illegal trades. For example, as detailed in question number 85, when a team is over the cap and acquires a player in trade, they cannot re-trade that player in combination with other players for two months. Technically, however, this applies only to players traded together using the same exception (i.e., aggregated). For example, Orlando acquired Danny Manning from Phoenix (as part of a package for Penny Hardaway) on 8/5/99. They then traded Manning and Dale Ellis to Milwaukee on 8/19/99. This trade did not violate the two-month rule because Orlando technically traded the players separately -- Ellis completed an earlier, non-simultaneous trade. Therefore the trade was legal.

Ok, let's talk cap savings:

We save $8,000,000+ in this deal.

Assume Orlando drafts #3 and we don't have to pay the pick.

Anyone want to add Tayshaun's first year extension salary into the mix yet?

What about Ben's new deal?

And then the MLE since some think we're gonna spend it to cover holes?

Forgive me for asking but what cap savings are you guys talking about?

Even if we don't spend the MLE Davidson is adding payroll for next season.

Tay makes less than $3,000,000 now.

Add another $4,000,000 for his extension.

Ben makes $6,000,000 now. Double that.

So Davidson adds an additional $2,000,000 to payroll for next season PRIOR to spending the MLE and he's a cheap bastard?

IF we spend the MLE Davidson will add an additional $7,000,000 to our current payroll.

And in case anyone was wondering:

We're already over the luxury tax and will have to pay. There will be a luxury tax every single year of this new CBA so get used to us paying it.

I think Orlando could be playoff team easy next year.

C: Darko
PF Howard/Garrity
SF Hill/ Ariza/ Hedo
SG Hedo/ Crawford/Dooling
PG Nelson/ Arroyo

Sign a vet C for the BAE like Mohammed, Khandi, Wright.

The nUse the MLE to get a veteran 6th man like KVH, Tim Thomas.

It is a week FA class but Orlando even without counting on Hill could end up in the playoff IMO.

Bam, that's the shit I was looking for PharAOh!

NOTE:

The trade checker approved Mike James and Eric Williams from Toronto for Kelvin Cato in Orlando.

I imagine that trade could work, and Toronto wuld fucking jump all over that if we included the Magic's pick.

More cap space for the Raptors and an additional pick in the Lotto either in 2006 or 2007.

I seriously doubt the Magic contend for a playoff spot with Darko starting at PF or C and a rookie starting at SG.

Their team is crap IMO

Question - do we still have a trade exception we can use or did it expire?
The Jazz trade one of 400k expired, we have a 900k left from the Dupree trade.

NOTE:

The trade checker approved Mike James and Eric Williams from Toronto for Kelvin Cato in Orlando.

I imagine that trade could work, and Toronto wuld fucking jump all over that if we included the Magic's pick.

More cap space for the Raptors and an additional pick in the Lotto either in 2006 or 2007.

I seriously doubt the Magic contend for a playoff spot with Darko starting at PF or C and a rookie starting at SG.

Their team is crap IMO


That's where I was headed next.

Cato and the T-Wolves 2nd rounder for Earl Watson and Voshon Lenard?

Earl Watson was a guy Denver brought in to replace Andre Miller because they thought that he was heading to the Celtics for Pierce at the time. The deal fell through, and now they're stuck paying 3 PGs. Voshon is a DNP guy in Denver, but he's an expiring deal that makes the $$$ work. This essentially lets them dump Watson's contract. I'm not sure what else it would take to get him from them (if anything), but I think Watson would be a perfect fit here.

Watson + Lindsey + Delfino = Pitbulls X3?

I think Orlando could be playoff team easy next year.

C: Darko
PF Howard/Garrity
SF Hill/ Ariza/ Hedo
SG Hedo/ Crawford/Dooling
PG Nelson/ Arroyo

Sign a vet C for the BAE like Mohammed, Khandi, Wright.

The nUse the MLE to get a veteran 6th man like KVH, Tim Thomas.

It is a week FA class but Orlando even without counting on Hill could end up in the playoff IMO.

Why would those free agents sign there and not with a better team (contender or certain playoff team)?

Why would Orlando waste cap space on those guys when the 2007 Free Agent class is stellar?

I think they're doing a 2-year tank job to load up for another big free agent run.

I was only half joking when I said yesterday that we might need a "Fun with Cato trades" thread.

Without the Tayshaun or Ben added in the 06-07 team salary minus Darko and Arroyo is 41 million, add 7.5 million for Tayshaun and 11 for Ben, that is 59.5 million. Rookie scale ranges from 6th pick money of 2.5 million to 13th pick salary of 1.6.

So give the weak FA classes we won't be spending more than BAE for a FA vet.

GD - I still can't believe we have 20 pages for this.

Everyone is so down on the trade and I can't see why.

If you hate the 2006 Draft rejoice knowing that the Magic suck and are aiming for the 2007 free agent class.

If you hate the salary dump rejoice because it means more playing time for Delfino.

There are many ways to look at this trade:

Darko = First Round Pick (at this point it's obvious he was never gonna do shit here)

Expiring deal = Arroyo's deal

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

Dont forget, i'm pretty sure Billups can opt out after next season, and I'm pretty sure he will, so he can get payed.

Thats when McDyess gets dealt.

:-(


I like mcDyess. Damn cap.

The cap isn't the problem. The problem is how much Davidson is willing to shell out. We have the Bird rights to every important player on the roster. Davidson could max out Ben and Chauncey without giving up Dice or anyone else if he wanted to.

J, a $59 million payroll is right around the tax threshold, but not excessive.

Without the pick but with the MLE we'd be fine tax wise.

It's no different than it is now, except we cleared guys who didn't fit and got a pick.

This deal comes down to what you think of Orlando's team and where you think the pick will fall in 2006 or 2007.

I think Lotto.

Some are claiming anywhere from 14-20.

LMMFAO - Darko starting in the NBA for an entire season for the very first time?

A rookie playing big minutes in the NBA for the very first time?

And Grant Mr. Reliable Hill providing leadership with Brian "I was fired and then brought back" Hill as head coach?

WTF - those guys are gonna suck.

How do I know?

Look at the Raptors - Howard is Bosh, Nelson is James and everyone else sucks

GD - I still can't believe we have 20 pages for this.

Everyone is so down on the trade and I can't see why.

If you hate the 2006 Draft rejoice knowing that the Magic suck and are aiming for the 2007 free agent class.

If you hate the salary dump rejoice because it means more playing time for Delfino.

There are many ways to look at this trade:

Darko = First Round Pick (at this point it's obvious he was never gonna do shit here)



That's my story and I'm sticking to it

P,

My problem with deal is mainly the fact that we would just waive Cato. I am not saying Cato is an impact guy but I think we should try to flip him for an expiring deal by using a future first or a few 2nds. We have no use for 2 seconds in the upcoming draft along with ORL's pick.

I just think that are ways to stock up for a title run with out adding multiple years of salary. Or even taking back a guy like Watson and Lenard would be worth Cato and a 2007 Detroit first. Lenard is expiring and Watson is 100 times better than Arroyo plus we wouldn't really need to use the MLE to get bench help after this season.

Additionally I have no problem with getting rid of the guys we did, I just hope that Joe is actively looking to fill the roster out if he waives Cato.

Honestly I think Delfino is going to get run at PG, and we may go after one of the two SG/SF I have mentioned countless times to help with the playoff run.

Well, if Joe waives him then you can go nuts.

But I thought you posted that Joe had another deal on the table?

I'm happy with this deal IF we don't waive Cato altogether. Have him ride the pine and fit his ass into the groove Darko left on the bench.

Just don't waive him so someone else can pick him up - that's stupid.

Getting a Lotto pick for Darko was a good move (if Joe doesn't fuck up another high pick)

Clearing Arroyo's shitty contract and shitty play was a good move too.

Maybe Joe doesn't want another PG? Maybe he wants Delfino to get as much playing as possible and realised Flip wasn't moving quickly enough?

How do you get Carlos Delfino more minutes?

Remove the competition for his playing time.

Evans ain't going anywhere because Flip likes the guy and is gonna play him regardless.

But if Delfino keeps on producing on D then he's gonna get the bulk of the minutes and without a real back up PG around Flip is gonna have to use him there some as well.

People were specualting Joe doing the same type of thing to force playing time for Darko. If he didn't do it for the #2 who didn't get any time, I don't think he's going to do it for Delfino just to try to increase the minutes he's already getting.

Maybe Joe doesn't want another PG?

I know that not being able to see the game last night that there is no way that you could know this, but they quoted Joe saying that if he trades Arroyo, that he will go out and get another PG.

Cutting Cato would be an absolutely ridiculous move. He isn't terribly when healthy - I mean somebody thought enough of his game to give him almost $9M/season. You cut Cato and he signs with a team like New Jersey, Dallas, Denver or PHX...

Who started the rumor that Cato was going to be cut? I haven't seen any legit sources say he would be waived.

McCosky I believe. From an article a couple o' days ago...

P,

Talk is that there is a posible deal with Dallas, and Sac. However a lot of that hinges on the health of Wells.

From what I was told last night, Dallas is shopping Terry and Stackhouse, they want a guy like Wells in return as well as front court muscle.

Sac is looking to unload Salary.

One deal I have heard is Detroit Sends Cato and a pick to Sac, Sac then sends Thomas and Wells to Dallas, and Dallas send sDet Terry and Stack to Sac.

Nothing is for sure with this deal it has just been mentioned as a possibility.

People were specualting Joe doing the same type of thing to force playing time for Darko. If he didn't do it for the #2 who didn't get any time, I don't think he's going to do it for Delfino just to try to increase the minutes he's already getting.

Yeah, but Darko was shit. This potential Franchise C shit has got to end.

2 and a half years of NOTHING has fucked everyone up.

He is nothing but a wasted pick. You think Joe deals potential Franchise big men for an expiring contract and a pick?

When a trade is on you know Joe wins it. Check his trade history.

And then check his Draft history:

Cleeves - shit
White - shit
Darko - shit

What else do they have in common?

TRADED! (I hope Darko is)

BTW, Delfino is actually producing when on the floor.

Joe dealt Mike Curry to get playing time for Tayshaun.

GD - another PG could mean anyone. A vet to carry bags or someone that can come in and IF needed play.

It doesn't have to mean "second string"

And Kilo - if we cut Cato then I agree that's stupid. It doesn't kill us but it's not exactly smart to let some shot blocker join a rival for the playoff run, no matter how injury prone he may be.

This thread is certainly blossoming.

P,

Talk is that there is a posible deal with Dallas, and Sac. However a lot of that hinges on the health of Wells.

From what I was told last night, Dallas is shopping Terry and Stackhouse, they want a guy like Wells in return as well as front court muscle.

Sac is looking to unload Salary.

One deal I have heard is Detroit Sends Cato and a pick to Sac, Sac then sends Thomas and Wells to Dallas, and Dallas send sDet Terry and Stack to Sac.

Nothing is for sure with this deal it has just been mentioned as a possibility.

IF this deal goes down our trade becomes:

Darko and Arroyo for Jason Terry?

Holy Shit!

I think I just soiled myself.

IF it doesn't happen I'm still happy though

Cuban has been going on for the past few weeks about how happy he is with his team, and why wouldn't he be?

I would be very surprised (but thrilled) if we ended up with Terry.

I'm not sure Cuban would help us get better.

He would if they get better at the same time.

Dallas isn't giving up Terry. Not a chance. That team is the best they have ever been and Terry is their 2nd leading scorer and their guy that takes all the big shots. To think they'll send him to US of all teams (with only San Antonio being worse) is crazy. Who replaces him on that roster? Does Harris take over with Armstrong as their full time backup?

That said, I'd do it in a second.

Apparently Dallas has made no effort to let Terry know they want to re-sign him. Also Avery Johnson met with Cuban and stated his desire to have Harris be the FT PG and want sto cut JT's PT. This has upset Terry and he may have asked to be traded.

Also whenever Cuban says he is happy with a roster a move is made shortly there after. Plus Johnson has stated e wants more defensive toughness from guys come playoff time, Wells and Thomas would do that more than Terry and Stack.

I'm happy with the deal provided the protections are ok (ie top 3 or 5 this year and none next year)...that Cato is not cut and Joe tries to move him for something useful...and that Delfino gets more PT from this.

This deal makes no sense if we

A) don't try Delfino at PG some
B) don't trade Cato for PG help.

If we simply cut Cato, I would not be a fan. I would be happy to get rid of Arroyo, but I would be concerned that it would hurt our title chances this year (Hunter cannot fill in for Billups full time) even with a minor injury.

If we added Jason Terry, I'd LOVE this trade.

Dallas would take on Kenny Thomas' 4-year deal, and add Bonzi Wells' expiring deal. Giving up and expiring Terry and one year remaining on Stackhouse.

Sacto loses Thomas' four years and an expiring Bonzi, adds one year of Stackhouse, an expiring Cato and a Minnesota 2nd rounder.

Detroit trades Cato's expiring and a Minesota 2nd rounder for expiring Jason Terry.

The reason I don't see this actually happening is I really don't see Dallas messing with their team so drastically. If they trade Terry who is averaging big minutes for them and start Devin Harris, who is their back-up PG?? Darryl Armstrong.

However looking at Dallas' minutes distribution, it looks like they must be playing Terry at the 2-guard, or at least splitting time at both spots. They give up a ton of size in doing so and hurt their rebounding. Wells is a very good rebounding 2-guard and can play SF.

Thanks for the info JS.

I have to wonder if Terry is making a big stink about reduced PT in Dallas what kind of a teammate would he be here with even less PT?

Terry was nearly an All Star this year for god's sake.

Maybe Cuban will fuck up a good thing? I sure hope so.

Here's a question.... would we be able to re-sign Terry in the offseason?

And I was typing this as the Dallas stuff was posted. I would be a huge fan of that deal for us as well.

Here's a question.... would we be able to re-sign Terry in the offseason?

Probably not, nor would we lilely want to - eventhough he'd be ideal in our offense.

Another knock against this trade is that if he's bitching about time in Dallas, he really isn't going to like coming here and backing up Billups for twelve-fifteen minutes a game. Now if we give him some burn as a 2-guard, that might help the situation, but then we're cutting into Delfino's minutes and hurting on defense ourselves. Delfino could become Princes primary back-up with Evans losing all of his minutes, but then are we messing too much with a good thing??

With Terry in a contract year he's going to want PT and going to want to play the hero taking the big shots. Will he play team basketball?? Will he play Piston basketball??

I'm not shooting the messanger here by any stretch, just talking it out is all. This is exactly the type of Cato trade that I'd be looking for.

People were specualting Joe doing the same type of thing to force playing time for Darko. If he didn't do it for the #2 who didn't get any time, I don't think he's going to do it for Delfino just to try to increase the minutes he's already getting.

Yeah, but Darko was shit. This potential Franchise C shit has got to end.

2 and a half years of NOTHING has fucked everyone up.

He is nothing but a wasted pick. You think Joe deals potential Franchise big men for an expiring contract and a pick?

When a trade is on you know Joe wins it. Check his trade history.

And then check his Draft history:

Cleeves - shit
White - shit
Darko - shit

What else do they have in common?

TRADED! (I hope Darko is)

BTW, Delfino is actually producing when on the floor.

Joe dealt Mike Curry to get playing time for Tayshaun.


Yeah, or he fired Carlisle to get playing time for Prince. Either way you want to view that, it was still between seasons and didn't entail moving a guy who plays a totally different position in the hopes that it forces the current coach to play people out of position and open up minutes for a bench player. The consequences of completely undercutting Flip's power during a 42-9 start hasn't even been brought up yet.

We've both made essentially the same argument with opposite conclusions as to the "Delfino plays and Darko didn't" portion of the debate.

Thanks for the info JS.

I have to wonder if Terry is making a big stink about reduced PT in Dallas what kind of a teammate would he be here with even less PT?

Terry was nearly an All Star this year for god's sake.

Maybe Cuban will fuck up a good thing? I sure hope so.

I think the biggest issue for Terry is he feels disrespected. I know that is cliche' but he is bothered by the fact they have given him no indication they want him back. At the same time Johnson is saying Harris is a better PG. I don't think it is a PT issue as much as he feels like what he is doing is being overlooked or ignored. despite it being his best season.

Marc (Sterling Heights, MI): Do you think Joe Dumars' unwillingness to trade Darko has more to do with his pride and him not wanting to admit that he screwed up big time in that draft? If Darko can't play now for the Pistons, why would he be able to play next year or the year after that? Shouldn't Joe get this deal done ASAP?

Marc Stein: No. I think it has more to do with wanting to get as much as they can for Darko to feel like they got something of value in return for a No. 2 overall pick. Nothing Detroit gets in a deal is going to have an impact this season, so why not wait until the deadline buzzer to see if the offers improve? Cato and a lottery pick gives Detroit cap relief and a chance to draft someone else later, which helps the Pistons with their twin aims of re-signing Ben and finding a Darko replacement, but it's not out of the question that a better package may surface next week or closer to the draft.

However looking at Dallas' minutes distribution, it looks like they must be playing Terry at the 2-guard, or at least splitting time at both spots. They give up a ton of size in doing so and hurt their rebounding. Wells is a very good rebounding 2-guard and can play SF.

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506DAL2.HTM

From the list of their 5 man units and their per minutes: Terry plays about 13 minutes at the 2 and its generally with Howard at the 3 (who rebounds well). Its also always with Harris at the 1 (of course) who is a pretty good rebounder for the time he plays. But yeah, Harris/Terry is a small back court.

Marc (Sterling Heights, MI): Do you think Joe Dumars' unwillingness to trade Darko has more to do with his pride and him not wanting to admit that he screwed up big time in that draft? If Darko can't play now for the Pistons, why would he be able to play next year or the year after that? Shouldn't Joe get this deal done ASAP?

Marc Stein: No. I think it has more to do with wanting to get as much as they can for Darko to feel like they got something of value in return for a No. 2 overall pick. Nothing Detroit gets in a deal is going to have an impact this season, so why not wait until the deadline buzzer to see if the offers improve? Cato and a lottery pick gives Detroit cap relief and a chance to draft someone else later, which helps the Pistons with their twin aims of re-signing Ben and finding a Darko replacement, but it's not out of the question that a better package may surface next week or closer to the draft.

I read that yesterday.

I like how flippantly he says the bolded part above. I totally disagree with him on that point.

I would love this trade it nets us Terry, even if we can't resign him in the offseason.

In the case that Dallas doesn't want to trade Terry, I will gladly take Harris off their hands.

jason terry? wtf? waist of time discussing a trade with dallas.

right now it sounds like maybe its no protection or no deal.

if thats the case, i'll completely change my tune.

not top 5 protected, not top 3, it has to be no protection.

i disagree with pharoah. even though 2007 is supposed to be a great draft, im not willing to gamble that orlando doesnt improve. thats just too risky for a team that has a pf stud who's about to go into his third year (typically a breakout year).

im surprised no one has mentioned the possibility of cato for harrington.

Cato for Harrington? Both players with expiring contracts. The former plan for a Det/Atl trade included Darko going to Atl because they need a big. If Darko is in Orlando, who does Detroit have to make Atl want to take one expiring contract for the other?

if it matters to anyone, i'm watching the Pistons/Nets replay and Kelser did say that JoeD told him that if he were to trade Arroyo, he'd only do it if he was able to get a backup PG in return.

Which leads me to think, either he has another deal, or is just going to sign someone to finish the rest of the season out.

No way Atlanta trades Al for Cato, unless they are really trying to lose the few fans they have.

I doubt Dallas trades us Terry, but I think he would get enough minutes here. He could easily get 25 MPG in this situation:

PG
Billups 33 MPG
Terry 15 MPG

SG
RIP 33 MPG
Terry 10 MPG
Delfino 5 MPG

SF
Prince 33 MPG
Delfino 15 MPG

PF
Ben 23 MPG
Dyess 25MPG

C
Sheed 35 MPG
Ben 13 MPG

I think we would have really liked to sign Chucky Atkins about now [smilie=annoyed.gif]

Well Cleaves is on his second 10 day contract in a row. He'll become available. Cleaves back in the D!

if atl decided it wasnt keeping harrington this summer (no clue why they wouldnt, but its atl) we could probably do cato + future first for harrington.

Well Cleaves is on his second 10 day contract in a row. He'll become available. Cleaves back in the D!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/GlennDanzig/scream.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/GlennDanzig/mahteen.gif

McCosky (co-hosting S&W on WDFN) just said ORL deal is "50/50 at best" still.

FWIW.

http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/gifs-animated/nothing.gif

(That means "nothing")

if atl decided it wasnt keeping harrington this summer (no clue why they wouldnt, but its atl) we could probably do cato + future first for harrington.

but why? The most we get out of him is 20 minutes at SF maybe. That's it. And he'd probably leave in anyway unless we moved Dyess. That's not worth a first rounder IMO.

Well we'd be acquiring his bird rights, and any S&T would probably bring more than a late first rounder in return...

Of course Atlanta would realize this and keep him for themselves to trade via S&T unless they know Chicago is going to make a play for him and have the cap space to make it happen.

I think it says an awful lot that instead of staying on top of the Darko story, (making calls, nosing around at the Palace, etc.), McCoskey is sitting there with Stoney for 3 hours yukking it up about Tigers pitchers and catchers reporting.

WDFN just said that Joe wants the pick to be this year, no matter what...and Orlando wants it lotto protected.

What a shitty ass trade. Sure were trading Darko, but Arroyo? And Were just gonna cut Cato so whats the fucking point?

WDFN just said that Joe wants the pick to be this year, no matter what...and Orlando wants it lotto protected.

So the battle of wills has begun. Who will blink first? I just can't see us needing to make this trade. If the JS floated Dallas trade was reality, I'm sure we wouldn't be making an issue over the protection. Orlando is pressured by the trade deadline - Dumars would be smart to wait and see. If the deadline comes and goes we still have Arroyo and can still deal Milicic on trade day.

This draft has two bigmen - Aldridge and Bargnini. Once they are off the board it's all SF/SG's and PG's the rest of the lottery. A team(like Atlanta) looking for size who picks after Aldridge and Bargnini are off the board might be willing to accept Milicic for their pick.

I think it says an awful lot that instead of staying on top of the Darko story, (making calls, nosing around at the Palace, etc.), McCoskey is sitting there with Stoney for 3 hours yukking it up about Tigers pitchers and catchers reporting.

Outside of It is what it is WDFN has become pure garbage. S&W can be great but have dropped off from the glory days. Outside of Sean it seems like they mail it in a lot. It's not like 1270 is better but outside of Karsch and Lund I would rather listen t 1270. Karsh and Lund love to beat topics to death day after day.

WHy have McDouchebag on and talk about the Tigers? Let me know what S and MC have to say about the need for a starting Lions QB.

It just shows you McCoskey is joke, he just mails in his work year after year.

If McDouchebag takes calls be sure to recap his condescending respones to the inferior humans who dare to ask him questions. That is if they can get the mike to reach him on his high horse.

I'm sure it doesn't mean anything, but after having it there since about midnight last night, ESPN.com has removed the Darko story from it's home page altogether.

If Joe trades Arroyo and Darko for Cato and a 1st rounder (protected or not) and then goes and trades THAT draft pick for Mike James...

I will literally shit an alpaca and then ride it to go hunt down Dumars so I can fully express to him just how disappointed I was with his decision.

What about doing the Darko trade (and keeping Orlando's pick) but then using the Pistons' first rounder and say Mo Evans to get Mike James Bitch?

I'm sure it doesn't mean anything, but after having it there since about midnight last night, ESPN.com has removed the Darko story from it's home page altogether.

It's still there, they just moved it.

Jack I really wish you would post more...If you do decide to post more maybe you could show us some more the MSU collection.

The contracts don't match and we don't have a first rounder this year anyways. I don't think James is really an option for us anyways.

If we get the unprotected first rounder we surely are not going to trade it.

i'm warming up to the draft pick. If we get a high pick maybe we can get someone who can actually give us a good 10 mins off the bench.

The contracts don't match and we don't have a first rounder this year anyways. I don't think James is really an option for us anyways.

If we get the unprotected first rounder we surely are not going to trade it.

Yeah I just can't imagine Dumar's trading Orlando's pick unless he's getting something -VERY- legit in return. I'm thinking a bonafide starter on most teams and something certainly better than Mike James.

Right now Orlando has the 5th worse record in the league and they've lost 5 in a row. If they add Darko, I just can't see them improving any, and to be honest I see the opposite happening meaning they're going to have a great chance of landing a top 2, 3 or 4 pick.

The contracts don't match and we don't have a first rounder this year anyways. I don't think James is really an option for us anyways.

If we get the unprotected first rounder we surely are not going to trade it.

Yeah I just can't imagine Dumar's trading Orlando's pick unless he's getting something -VERY- legit in return. I'm thinking a bonafide starter on most teams and something certainly better than Mike James.

Right now Orlando has the 5th worse record in the league and they've lost 5 in a row. If they add Darko, I just can't see them improving any, and to be honest I see the opposite happening meaning they're going to have a great chance of landing a top 2, 3 or 4 pick.
Which is all the more reason for us to get that pick without any protection or Top 3 at the most.

1) Get unprotected from Orlando.

2) Trade Cato for backup PG right now. Hold on to pick for year. Re-sign Ben.

3) Either draft a rook with the pick or trade it for a solid veteran player that guarantees a championship.

Also, I'm talking out of my ass.

Right now Orlando has the 5th worse record in the league and they've lost 5 in a row. If they add Darko, I just can't see them improving any, and to be honest I see the opposite happening meaning they're going to have a great chance of landing a top 2, 3 or 4 pick.

I agree, and that is Orlando's masterplan that Dumars is throwing a wrench in. They wanted to add Milicic, trade Franchise for more youngsters(Ariza/Crawford), tank the remainder of the seaosn and get a top five pick.

Dumars is making them choose between Milicic and the top five pick. It has to be disappointing choice, when you thought you would get them both. Notice their demand for a top seven protection, knowing that they'd fall to bottom five in the league, meaning if two better teams won the lottery and leapfrogged them into the top three, they'd only be pushed back to No.7 and still keep their pick.

Now they either got to make the Milicic trade, and keep Francis and try to win now or not make the Milicic trade, dump Franchise for youngsters and keep their top five pick.

This is just stupid.

I really used to like Stoney & Wojo, too.

I can't believe that in the absence of any new information, they aren't at least taking phone calls about the trade, especially with "Pistons Insider" McCosky sitting right there.

Instead, they are playing "The Pyramid".

Fucking stupid.

I would make it very uncomplicated for the Magic drop the protection or give us Nelson in turn we will only ask for the 06 pick if it 7th or lower.

If it's unprotected I'm all for this. I think Dumars can work Cato and a couple 2nd rounders into a backup PG that is better than Arroyo. And the more I look at it, the more I think Orlando is going to tank and that pick will end up 3-5. If you look at the draft there are some very solid players there.

Adam Morrison
LaMarcus Aldridge
Rudy Gay
Andrea Bargnani (Highly doubt we'd take him due to the circumstances)
Tyrus Thomas

I'd be thrilled with any of those guys. Hopefully Bargnani would get picked before us though. Just to get rid of the temptation.

regarding Jameer Nelson, people on the magic forums are talking about possible torn cartilege. not sure if it's a good idea to pick up Nelson because of that (not that the Magic are offering, of course).

This is just stupid.

I really used to like Stoney & Wojo, too.

I can't believe that in the absence of any new information, they aren't at least taking phone calls about the trade, especially with "Pistons Insider" McCosky sitting right there.

Instead, they are playing "The Pyramid".

Fucking stupid.

It's possible they are just waiting for the 5:00 block to take all those calls.

Unlike a lot of you I am not down on this draft class. It may not be a deep because of the new format but I think you can get a contributor at most spots in this draft.

I would even venture to say that if we got the 6th pick, Joe could trade up using an 07 first, the 6th pick, and the 40th pick to grab the best available player. For example if JJ is the 6th player picked I could see Cha who is likely picking 1 trading the pick for Redick and additional picks. Since they need a SG more than a SF.

This is just stupid.

I really used to like Stoney & Wojo, too.

I can't believe that in the absence of any new information, they aren't at least taking phone calls about the trade, especially with "Pistons Insider" McCosky sitting right there.

Instead, they are playing "The Pyramid".

Fucking stupid.

Turn to 1270. Doug and Art as stupid as they are with regards to the NBA (Doug is still trumpeting trading the Orlando pick for Mike James) [smilie=404.gif] ...they're at least taking phone calls on the topic.

I know we have beat this topic to death but does anybody think we could trade actually trade for James.

I mean Cato and a second for James and Williams. Williams is done in all likleyhood but he has a player option with a 4 million dollar buy out after this year.

Wouldn't Toronto have to clear that with Bosh?

I thought that he was basically insisting that they bring MJ back if they want him to re-sign?

Yeah they did say Bosh loved MJ, so probably that deal would never happen regardless of what bad contract we took back.

Yeah they did say Bosh loved MJ, so probably that deal would never happen regardless of what bad contract we took back.

Although when you look at the cap situation after a deal to unload Williams and James, they woul have almost 25 million dollars to spend in FA . So they could perhaps sell Bosh on the fact they will make a hard push for James in FA since they would have more Cash to spend. It would be easier to convince Bosh you are commited to Bosh if you add a few players rather than keeping one.

as of 5pm EST, wdfn isn't reporting any new developments.

"unprotected!!" [smilie=argue.gif] "protected!!"

Around the Horn (espn) is about to talk about Darko next. not that their opinions hold much value, but just a heads up.

they did buy/sell the "change of scenery" helping Darko, it was 2 for and 2 against.

memorable quote:

"He can't play.......he couldn't play dead." -Woody Paige.

I might go as far as saying that if this trade doesn't happen to day it will not happen. If the issue is that Dumars is saying no protection or no deal, I don't hink you need more than a day to make that decision. You call in your top scouts and get a brief on this years draft class and then either you do it or you don't.

seems like JoeD is playing hardball is the deal hasn't been done yet. good. i hope the pick is unprotected or is only like top 3 protected. JoeD's got the leverage here and i'm predicting that joeD will get the pick in our favor.

again, i'm backing away from the computer......DAMN YOU DARKO for keeping me glued to my laptop all day [smilie=angryfire.g:

[smilie=freedarko.g:

oh, and Darko's going to be on PTI soon [smilie=404.gif]

Up in a few minutes. :)

This is seriously the most I've watched PTI and Around the Horn since we were hoping to land Rasheed. This trade is obviously not as exciting, but I'm intrigued none-the-less.

Thanks for telling us everything we already knew, Tony and Wilbon...

I hate seeing those highlight clips when we're talking about trading him. Scares the shit out of me what he's going to become. I don't even think Milicic knows how good he can be.

I heard Paul Silas on ESPN Radio on my drive home. It's his opinion that Darko will not amount to anything but an "NBA journeyman".

bah...iv been checkin the internet all day hopin somethin would go down today.

I heard Paul Silas on ESPN Radio on my drive home. It's his opinion that Darko will not amount to anything but an "NBA journeyman".

How would he know - has he seen him in practice and such?? He's probably talked to Larry Brown is all. I know Silas is recognized for his work with young bigmen, but if he hasn't worked with him, how can he make such a statement?

See you on Tuesday, Pauly.

I bet this deal never happens since its been "close" for like 6 months.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons/

DARKO GONE, ACCORDING TO ASB

WooooHooooo Darko's gone! First round of drinks on me!!!!!

[smilie=alpacacall.: [smilie=dance.gif] [smilie=djparty.gif] [smilie=fireworks.g: [smilie=hammertime.:

I wonder who blinked!! I hope is wasn't Joe D. I don't want to watch the lottery results with anything other than anticipation...

2007 pick is top 5 protected. Deal is done.

Anything more than a top 3 protection, and joe D should be shot.

*prays for unprotected*

details, we need details!!

2007 pick is top 5 protected. Deal is done.

I hope you are guessing. I mean we don't get a 2006, 2007 is protected - meaning we are looking at a 2008 pick - hell Orlando could be title contenders by then...

I'm gunna PUKE!!!

I heard it on the radio.

2007 pick!?!??! Oh fuck no. Joe D gets bitchslapped if thats true

ASB saying he heard top 7 protected.

[smilie=arnold.gif]

Hey Dumars [smilie=faeuste_bal:

Thank you for getting rid of that arrogant worthless pile of shit that couldn't play in the 6th divison Greek league. I'm glad you acknowledged your mistake and corrected it. I know many Piston fans say thank you. Now if Millen gets rid of Harrington, I will paste the same exact post in the NFL forum.

a Breaking News notice on ESPN, the trade is done. no details on the draft pick.

I agree 100%. Although I do have more hope for Darko than I do Joey

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index?&lpos=globalnav&lid=gn_NBA_NBA

sorry but if the word that's going around, that its Top 7 protected in 06, and Top 5 in 07 (WTF??) then i'm not happy. joe d fucked up.

Sorry to disappoint you guys but Orlando got raped in that deal. They gave us a top 10 pick for a pile of shit.

top 10 pick that we wont be able to use... We're not getting that pick this year if there's a top 7 protection on it. The Magic aren't getting better in the last 20-something games.

The pick is for 2007. I am not sure why people keep talking about this year. I keep on repeating its 2007 top 5 protected.

Darko's gone ? OMG i can't believe it.

After 2007 the pick is not protected.

wdfn reported that the pick is top 5 protected and then unprotected the year after.

wtf wtf WTF JOE.

Motherfucker better have something else in place. Top-7 protected is just too much.

That and Cato is nothing here.

i HOPE that joe D has some ace up his sleeve regarding our back-up PG situation...

wtf wtf WTF JOE.

Motherfucker better have something else in place. Top-7 protected is just too much.

That and Cato is nothing here.

i think it's a top 5 protected and then unprotected the next year.

Joe better have some moves left.

wtf wtf WTF JOE.

Motherfucker better have something else in place. Top-7 protected is just too much.

That and Cato is nothing here.

i think it's a top 5 protected and then unprotected the next year.

So we're talking 2007's pick here? That makes the deal even worse.

Who is our backup PG? Is Acker a fucking stud or something?

Fuck.

wtf wtf WTF JOE.

Motherfucker better have something else in place. Top-7 protected is just too much.

That and Cato is nothing here.

i think it's a top 5 protected and then unprotected the next year.

Top five this year and unprotected next, or top five in 2007, unprotected in 2008??

Yeah so we won't get Oden.

Darko must suck something nasty in order for this trade to be done. We lose our project and our backup PG for a first-rounder next year, number 6 at best?

Trust in who?

The Detroit Pistons traded forward-center Darko Milicic and point guard Carlos Arroyo to the Orlando Magic for Kelvin Cato and a 2007 first round pick, ESPN.com has learned Wednesday.

The little-used Milicic appeared in 25 games for the Pistons this season, averaging 1.5 points per game in 5.6 minutes. Arroyo, a reserve guard, averaged 3.2 points and 3.1 assists in 50 games for Detroit.

Cato averaged 13 minutes in 23 with the Magic, averaging 3.8 points and 2.7 rebounds.

My gawd. I can't believe this. I just hope it works out. As of now, I'm just going to be patient, looking for another move before the all-star break.

wtf wtf WTF JOE.

Motherfucker better have something else in place. Top-7 protected is just too much.

That and Cato is nothing here.

i think it's a top 5 protected and then unprotected the next year.

Top five this year and unprotected next, or top five in 2007, unprotected in 2008??

hmm.....i think it's top 5 in 07 and unprotected in 08. this is what i just heard on wdfn and i think UC's been saying it.

Anyways....



NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, HEY HEY HEY, GOOD BYE!!!!!!


NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, HEY HEY HEY, GOOD BYE!!!!!!


http://www.nba.com/media/pistons/80s_darko_milicic.jpg

Magic probably won't get a top 5 pick any way. We could get some good talent out of this(JJ Redick?)

UGH. goddammit. fuckin Joe D. We didnt even get an 06 pick!? Man, fuck this shit. Orlando gets Darko and Arroyo for a garbage expiring contract......... they get a HIGH pick in 06, and if they still suck their 07 pick is protected too, and if they dont suck, we get raped with a shitty pick.

Joe D got raped here. So this is what its like to be on the other side.

In other news Joe Dumars was seen leaving his office walking bowlegged and John Hammond has taken the Toronto Raptors job...

wait its not 06?



FUCK. WTF JOE.

well, if Darko does turn out to be a bust, we stay contenders for about 3 years, the Magic suck for about 3 years, and we nail the #1 pick.....

....this deal could look like an absolute steal in years to come.....

:P

Aww delfino will have to finda new friend. He always seems to be chillin w. darko on the bench

Magic probably won't get a top 5 pick any way. We could get some good talent out of this(JJ Redick?)
Did you just call Redick good talent?

Trust in Joe. He has to have something else lined up. Doesn't he?

Doesn't he???

[smilie=anxious.gif]

Nobody to contribute this year. No draft pick in 06. FUCK.

Darko better be a huge bust.

Nobody to contribute this year. No draft pick in 06. FUCK.

we've got three rookies that the Pistons are supposedly high on: Maxiell, Acker, and Amir....

im going to hold out till i get a source better than wdfn to beleive its top 5 protected.

in fact i wont say anything, other than the local coverage of this trade is pissing me off. its not a cap clearing trade, its a salary dump. this doesnt help us retain billups or wallace. it helps bill davidson save money.

THE CELTS GOT MORE FOR JIRI WELCH THAN WE GOT FOR DARKO!!! FUCK THIS!

[quote=metr0man]
we've got three rookies that the Pistons are supposedly high on: Maxiell, Acker, and Amir....

players that they're so high on that THEY NEVER EVER PLAY. I bet all of them bolt when their time comes because they just wanna fuckin play basketball.

yea, by the time we get that pick it might be in the high 20s. and he gave away our backup pg.

great deal. i would have rather let darko's contract expire than do this deal.

what the fuck are you exactly happy about? that darko will never prove you wrong in detroit?

we've got three rookies that the Pistons are supposedly high on: Maxiell, Acker, and Amir....

players that they're so high on that THEY NEVER EVER PLAY. I bet all of them bolt when their time comes because they just wanna fuckin play basketball.

but what's the point of stockpiling rookies when they don't have minutes to play.

we don't get a pick right away, but maybe we're better served if we can develop the rookies we have now and then get new blood later.

Dumars is buying into his own hype he sees Cleaves, White and Milicic and then sees Prince, Delfino, Maxiell, and Okur and doesn't want a high first rounder it seems...

yea, by the time we get that pick it might be in the high 20s. and he gave away our backup pg.

great deal. i would have rather let darko's contract expire than do this deal.

what the fuck are you exactly happy about? that darko will never prove you wrong in detroit?

please, please, please let the reason that the deal took so long is because Joe D has a trade or some kind of move that's coming soon.....

please.

Magic probably won't get a top 5 pick any way. We could get some good talent out of this(JJ Redick?)
Did you just call Redick good talent?Dude, I never said he fucking sucked. He could help us out.

Where the fuck is our backup PG?

I'll toast to that.

On the bright side, the 2007 draft is going to be MUCH MUCH deeper and more talented than the one in a few months.

I still can't believe it's anything more than top 3 protected though. Damn Joe, say it ain't so. [smilie=angry.gif]

Where the fuck is our backup PG?

Alex mother fucking Acker. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:






[smilie=anxious.gif]

yea, by the time we get that pick it might be in the high 20s. and he gave away our backup pg.

great deal. i would have rather let darko's contract expire than do this deal.

what the fuck are you exactly happy about? that darko will never prove you wrong in detroit?

He better swing a trade for another backup PG or I am going to be real pissed.

i agree i like the 2007 pick (lol at the 'joe has his eye on a guy in this draft) better than 2006, but i dont like it being protected (seeing how i thought this year's should be protected...)

[smilie=duh.gif] To Joe Dumars.

Well, Dumars finally lost his anal virginity.

i agree i like the 2007 pick (lol at the 'joe has his eye on a guy in this draft) better than 2006, but i dont like it being protected (seeing how i thought this year's should be protected...)

I agree.

The 2007 draft class is a lot deeper but by the time we get the pick, Orlando might improve enough to give us a late first rounder instead of a lottery pick.

BTW WOD must be creaming him self right now that we traded Sucko and Diet Rafer Alston.

maybe lindsey, delfino, and tay all split time at backup PG, and that leaves the door open for more Mad Max as a bruiser SF [smilie=alpacacall.:

So exactly why is the 2007 draft stronger? I have seen many say it but no one explain why?

maybe lindsey, delfino, and tay all split time at backup PG, and that leaves the door open for more Mad Max as a bruiser SF [smilie=alpacacall.:

No way. Were talking about this team trying to win the title. You can't go up against SA with that.

So much better than getting Al Harrington.
















I hope Darko fucking rots in Orlando. Piece of shit.

maybe lindsey, delfino, and tay all split time at backup PG, and that leaves the door open for more Mad Max as a bruiser SF [smilie=alpacacall.:

No way. Were talking about this team trying to win the title. You can't go up against SA with that.

hey, i'm trying to look at the cup half full here! [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

I hope Darko fucking rots in Orlando. Piece of shit.Why?

So exactly why is the 2007 draft stronger? I have seen many say it but no one explain why?

All the HSers that are prohibited from entering next year's draft will be in the 2007 draft including Greg Oden.

outside of oden (who is probably one of the most anticipated draftees ever. probably near the same level as james and duncan), there are alot of bigs that are going to get drafted.

its hard to pass on talented big men...

maybe lindsey, delfino, and tay all split time at backup PG, and that leaves the door open for more Mad Max as a bruiser SF [smilie=alpacacall.:

No way. Were talking about this team trying to win the title. You can't go up against SA with that.

hey, i'm trying to look at the cup half full here! [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Your cup past 1/2 full the second the Darko trade was signed.

I hate this trade. I wanted to trade Darko for someone that could help this team win NOW. We got nothing to help us. Fuck Joe.

Here's how we're planning on addressing the shortage.

Flip will publicly say that he's gonna give a good chunk of mintues to Lindsey, Acker will get some real minutes, and Delfino/Tay will get some PG mins.

Then in the game:

Acker: 2 mins
Lindsey: 4 mins
Billups: 42 mins

for the rest of the season.

Thank you for getting rid of that arrogant worthless pile of shit that couldn't play in the 6th divison Greek league. I'm glad you acknowledged your mistake and corrected it. I know many Piston fans say thank you. Now if Millen gets rid of Harrington, I will paste the same exact post in the NFL forum.


Thank JoeD for what? Leaving us without a backup PG?

maybe lindsey, delfino, and tay all split time at backup PG, and that leaves the door open for more Mad Max as a bruiser SF [smilie=alpacacall.:

No way. Were talking about this team trying to win the title. You can't go up against SA with that.

hey, i'm trying to look at the cup half full here! [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

Your cup past 1/2 full the second the Darko trade was signed.

well, i still maintain that if Darko becomes a bust in Orlando even with real minutes, we come off looking like bandits. i sincerely hope that JoeD has seen Darko for the past few years in practices and is convinced that he's not going to amount to much. there, the glass is back to half full [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Who knows? Maybe JoeD will trade Cato and the pick for a backup PG before the deadline.

If he doesn't then this trade is garbage.

I'm looking to the 2008 mock drafts and they don't even make ones 'cause it's too early.

I think OJ Mayo will be eligible in 2008.

I hate this trade. I wanted to trade Darko for someone that could help this team win NOW. We got nothing to help us. Fuck Joe.


Agreed.

This trade was a waste of the former No. 2 pick. This is the absolute best we could do with it? What the hell?

Chris McCosky said on wdfn that the Pick is for 2007 protect 1 to 5. And its only protected for 2007, after 2007 no Protection.

Look, I'm not happy with Arroyo being traded for nothing but I'm assuming that Dumars has a deal in place.

If he doesn't have a deal in place then including Arroyo was retarded.

If this trade is done, Magic will have 16 players on their roster. I don't know if that affects the trade in anyway though.

If this trade is done, Magic will have 16 players on their roster. I don't know if that affects the trade in anyway though.

It means they'll waive Terence Morris or Bo Outlaw.

Im sure Joes got somethin else cooking. Cause this trade has been hung up forever it seems like. And im sure Joe dint puss out and give in. Cause lets face it...there was no immediate reason for him to. I think Cato is going to be going off somewhere for a backup PG. Joe was prolly just waiting to get something else fairly close b4 he pulled the trigger on this one. Dear lord i hope im right.

well, shit. i'm going to be following Magic games much more closely than i ever have in my entire life, now.

what are the odds that Darko passes out or pulls a rodney-white-puking-on-the-court the first time he plays 30 minutes?

Look, I'm not happy with Arroyo being traded for nothing but I'm assuming that Dumars has a deal in place.

If he doesn't have a deal in place then including Arroyo was retarded.

Amen.

I did not know that about Rodney White puking. That's hysterical! Anyone have video of that?

If we don't land another PG to spell Billups, I think I'll be the one puking.

Fricken Joe D, what are you doing? If I don't hear news of us landing a high profile point guard in the next few days I'm going to fly to Detroit and kick Joe square in the nuts.

dont like this trade at alllllllllll

It sounds like this trade is definitely not going to be a fan favorite.

I can't figure out if i'm bummed or happy about the trade.

On one hand, I think that:

- Darko is still worth more than that (in my opinion)
- Arroyo was a decent, young back up who liked playing for Detroit
- We don't have a good back up at PG now
- Cato seems kinda broken and useless despite his expiring deal


On the other hand:

- Darko sucks. He could be good but i doubt it after meeting him twice. He's an idiot.
- Arroyo is not a guy who I trusted when the game was close. His shot is streaky, his D suspect and he over dribbles too often.
- Two big contracts are gone and we'd likely lose Darko after next year anyways
- We get a 1st. I'm ok with it being an 07' since anyone drafted this year would just be riding the pine anyways.

We'll see how things pan out but so far i'm not sure how to react.

“Right now, I have to get to work on finding another back-up point guard,” Dumars said.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060215/UPDATE/602150451

Way to go, genius. I hope you started working on that BEFORE you made the trade.

Please tell me you're just being coy, Joe. Please!

I think we all need to calm down here. I don't like the trade either, but it's not like Carlos Arroyo was the key to the championship. The one game he missed, the Pistons DESTROYED the Spurs on their homecourt, and Hunter wasn't even active for that game. The Pistons are still the best team in the East, and are still co-favorites with the Spurs to win it all. That hasn't changed.

However, I'll go on record right now as saying the Pistons aren't going to trade Kelvin Cato, unless it's for players with expiring contracts. This was a salary dump, because Davidson doesn't want to pay the luxury tax. The Pistons have plenty of room to sign Ben Wallace now without going over.

About a week to see what other moves JoeD makes before I'll comment on anything.

And since I don't want to post without proposing a solution, how about this trade.

Antonio Burks for Minnesota's 2nd rounder.

I think that's the type of trade Dumars will make.

“Right now, I have to get to work on finding another back-up point guard,” Dumars said.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060215/UPDATE/602150451

Way to go, genius. I hope you started working on that BEFORE you made the trade.

Please tell me you're just being coy, Joe. Please!

I hope that this doesn't turn into a revolving door at the backup PG spot like last year (Smush, Jenkins, Goldwire).

its not so much that we traded arroyo (i've said many times this year that could get by with just hunter) or that we've officially given up on darko (i'll trust joe's judgment on that one).

and hell, if all those two are worth is this ? draft pick than fine.

what does piss me off is we took a shakey bench (at best) and made it worse.

that we're fucking with the chemistry of a team thats 41 and 9.

that were dumping salary when we should be getting ready to make a charge at the finals.

I want Dumars to make a deal for a player that is equal or greater to Arroyo.

I don't think Arroyo was happy here anyway.

its not so much that we traded arroyo (i've said many times this year that could get by with just hunter) or that we've officially given up on darko (i'll trust joe's judgment on that one).

and hell, if all those two are worth is this ? draft pick than fine.

what does piss me off is we took a shakey bench (at best) and made it worse.

that we're fucking with the chemistry of a team thats 41 and 9.

that were dumping salary when we should be getting ready to make a charge at the finals.

I'm wondering if there wasn't more of a chemistry problem with Darko than was let on. And don't forget that a big part of this deal was getting Arroyo's salary off the books for the next two years.

[smilie=anxious.gif]

I'm reserving judgement for now.

Thank you for getting rid of that arrogant worthless pile of shit that couldn't play in the 6th divison Greek league. I'm glad you acknowledged your mistake and corrected it. I know many Piston fans say thank you. Now if Millen gets rid of Harrington, I will paste the same exact post in the NFL forum.

Maybe we'll luck out on Harrington and he'll comit suicide.
After he's outed.

Its not like having an 8 million dollar expiring contract is a hard thing to trade. Joe will make a deal for a PG/SG scoring guard off the bench.

Rumors are that they are waiving him. I seriously hope that isn't the case and they will make a deal with that contract.

Why would we waive him...i never got why teams do it. We did it with Coleman last year, and I just dont undertand it. Cato would be useful for some team, and id rather get something for him rather then just have him leave

I don't like Darko, but THIS sucks! Nothing better than a trade that you don't get crap from in well over a year or even 2 years.

that thing where u cant trade a traded player for like 60 days doesnt exist anymore right?

I was thinking the same thing. I think you can trade him but he can only be traded by himself without a package. Like Rasheed was traded to the Pistons by himself without anyone else from Atlanta.

Worst fuckin trade - Fuck Dumars. Buys into his own hype yet he gets fucked over by Dumb and Dumber in Orlando.

Damn disgrace.

There is absolutely no risk from Orlando's perspective - if Darko sucks, they still get to keep their 2007 pick. Darko is good and we get a shit assed pick for him. I want to spit in Dumars' face right now.

There isn't a trade he can make that would redeem this montrosity unless Cleveland would take the 2007 protected pick and Cato for Lebron James.

I hope whichever trade Dumars thinks he's got lined up falls apart - stupid fucker. There has to be a trade lined up - why else would he have to bend over today, time was on our side.

Even if Joe did fuck up this deal, I'm disappointed in the fact that everyone is saying "Fuck Joe Dumars" and "Joe Sucks." We're talking about Joe Dumars here. This is a guy that's smarter than all of us. He knows what he's doing, so if he makes a deal like this, there is a reason. This could be for the future, keeping our team together. Even so, Arroyo wasn't doing shit and Darko didn't even crack the rotation. There's a good chance he's talked to Flip and they have an idea as to what to do. Wheter it's Delfino playing the point or getting another player, Joe has something in mind.

We're talking about Joey D here. Not Danny Ainge. Joe knows everything he is doing. If he didn't make a trade in the past for Darko, he wouldn't just randomly decide to make a dumbass decision now. He sure as hell hasn't given up on this season. Can we wait before condemning him to hell.

Joe Dumars, people. The hero of Detroit. Don't forget that with one seemingly stupid trade.

Worst fuckin trade - Fuck Dumars. Buys into his own hype yet he gets fucked over by Dumb and Dumber in Orlando.

Damn disgrace.

There is absolutely no risk from Orlando's perspective - if Darko sucks, they still get to keep their 2007 pick. Darko is good and we get a shit assed pick for him. I want to spit in Dumars' face right now.

There isn't a trade he can make that would redeem this montrosity unless Cleveland would take the 2007 protected pick and Cato for Lebron James.

I hope whichever trade Dumars thinks he's got lined up falls apart - stupid fucker. There has to be a trade lined up - why else would he have to bend over today, time was on our side.

I am not sure what the little emotional outbursts are all about here.

Interesting how fast some can throw the towel in on Dumars. He goes from being the greatest GM of all time to suddenly stupid. Why not wait 48 hours and see what else he might do? Very little risk in doing so.

I have a terrble feeling that we have gotten the next Jermaine O'neal type thing.


Then again, I thought Kwame Brown would have success in LA.

careful kilo... dont say anything you might regret.

but to add to your rant.

can anyone name ONE thing joe did right in regards to darko.

firing larry brown...? trading him now....? from day one ("he could help us right now"), to jumping through a hundred hoops to get him out of his contract (how much better would it have been to keep him overseas for 1 or 2 seasons?) to hiring the last coach thats going to play him, to adding vet after vet that he had no chance of getting playing time in front of, etc, etc, etc.

its not that joe only made a bad selection (remains to be seen) its that he hasnt done one thing in regards to darko since then.

yes, we've had unbelievable team success over the last 3 years. but darko was the key to extending the success.

darko was supposed lift the load once ben got a little older. was supposed to extend the career of all the starters.

oh well. atleast bill davidson wont have to pay an extra $10 million. he'll probably be dead before darko makes him regret this move anyway. (hows that for saying something you might regret?)

Thank you, Geck.

Please stay calm. Dumars has not thrown the towel in on this season yet.

yea, by the time we get that pick it might be in the high 20s. and he gave away our backup pg.

great deal. i would have rather let darko's contract expire than do this deal.

what the fuck are you exactly happy about? that darko will never prove you wrong in detroit?

What are we happy about? The fact that the only 2 players that I dislike on the Pistons are now gone. The fact that everything we see of Darko tells us that he sucks and the only reason that people think he might be good is that Joe Dumars kept saying he was. If he's willing to do this trade than it only adds to my belief that Darko will never be a good player in this league.

Arroyo blows. I would much rather have Delfino out there than him any day of the week. Sure we are in deep shit if Billups gets hurt but if he gets hurt, we are screwed with Arroyo anyways.

I doubt that we trade Cato but if we do and we get a decent player for him than Dumars is a god.

Yeah seriously. I'm going to have to get mola to install an ignore button if you don't control yourself and stop acting like a little emotional bitch.

What are we happy about? The fact that the only 2 players that I dislike on the Pistons are now gone. The fact that everything we see of Darko tells us that he sucks and the only reason that people think he might be good is that Joe Dumars kept saying he was. If he's willing to do this trade than it only adds to my belief that Darko will never be a good player in this league.

Arroyo blows. I would much rather have Delfino out there than him any day of the week. Sure we are in deep shit if Billups gets hurt but if he gets hurt, we are screwed with Arroyo anyways.

I doubt that we trade Cato but if we do and we get a decent player for him than Dumars is a god.

You are happy that the two player you dislike are gone. The rest of us are unhappy that we don't have a fucking backup PG. Hunter, Delfino and Prince are only patchwork solutions.

I dont believe that Cato is going to be traded. The whole point was to clear the space. All the fantasy Cato trades are imo just desperation grabs by fans trying to salvage something from this trainwreck. we'll see maybe a really really cheap PG will be signed with that relief money to play like 4 minutes.

Fuck, at this point I'd support activating Acker and letting him get 5 solid minutes every game. if Darko has taught us anything, it's players gotta play to develop.

This fantasy of our young guys sitting on the bench forever and ever until our starting 5 gets old.......... then suddenly jumping in the lineup as great replacements, is a fantasy.

I think we're mostly pissed because we know more could have been had out of darko in terms of players..(harrington...those other players)

if our plan was to play delfino at the point, why havent we used delfino at the point?

darko... was he doing any harm here? was there some giant rush to move him? can you honestly say this deal is great for us? good? fair? why not just leave him off the playoff roster? its not like his value was getting any lower.

to me, this deal is a little like quitting your job before you start looking for a new one.

i dont blame joe entirely, most should go to davidson. were not going to bring back a pg of arroyo's calibre with a kinder contract than his. worrying about the lux tax now is inexcusable.

Even if Joe did fuck up this deal, I'm disappointed in the fact that everyone is saying "Fuck Joe Dumars" and "Joe Sucks." We're talking about Joe Dumars here. This is a guy that's smarter than all of us. He knows what he's doing, so if he makes a deal like this, there is a reason. This could be for the future, keeping our team together. Even so, Arroyo wasn't doing shit and Darko didn't even crack the rotation. There's a good chance he's talked to Flip and they have an idea as to what to do. Wheter it's Delfino playing the point or getting another player, Joe has something in mind.

We're talking about Joey D here. Not Danny Ainge. Joe knows everything he is doing. If he didn't make a trade in the past for Darko, he wouldn't just randomly decide to make a dumbass decision now. He sure as hell hasn't given up on this season. Can we wait before condemning him to hell.

Joe Dumars, people. The hero of Detroit. Don't forget that with one seemingly stupid trade.

AMEN.....this is why I don't need to post, eventually somebody will crawl into my head and put my thoughts out there

Any deal that gets rid of both Darko and Arroyo is a good Deal. I said this before, Lindsy Hunter is serviceable. No one ever said he had to handle the ball. We can let Delfino do that.

And with that, i'm assuming that Mad Max moves into Darkos spot on the roster and rotation (?). He is way more than capable of replacing Darkos bench warming Skills. As for that, so is Aker.


This deal is not as bad as you guys are making it out be. Some of you (kilo) need to stop acting like little bitches and relize that Joe D is not a stupid man. If he thought he could get something more, i'm sure he wouldnt have cut this deal. Fuck ya'll.

Even if Joe did fuck up this deal, I'm disappointed in the fact that everyone is saying "Fuck Joe Dumars" and "Joe Sucks." We're talking about Joe Dumars here. This is a guy that's smarter than all of us. He knows what he's doing, so if he makes a deal like this, there is a reason. This could be for the future, keeping our team together. Even so, Arroyo wasn't doing shit and Darko didn't even crack the rotation. There's a good chance he's talked to Flip and they have an idea as to what to do. Wheter it's Delfino playing the point or getting another player, Joe has something in mind.

We're talking about Joey D here. Not Danny Ainge. Joe knows everything he is doing. If he didn't make a trade in the past for Darko, he wouldn't just randomly decide to make a dumbass decision now. He sure as hell hasn't given up on this season. Can we wait before condemning him to hell.

Joe Dumars, people. The hero of Detroit. Don't forget that with one seemingly stupid trade.

It wasn't a stupid trade. It was a stupid pick 3 years ago. Some people need to get that straight. Darko is absolutely clueless out on the court. Will that change? maybe but I wouldn't bet on it. There are only 2 reasons this trade was made......

1.) Darko truly does suck and Dumars finally realized this and cut his losses accordingly.

2.) Bill Davidson told him to cut salary.

Neither of which you can blame Joe for.

Does anyone truly believe Dumars really think Darko will become a good player in this league and just decided to trade him for Cato and a protected pick?

As for giving up Arroyo? I've never liked him and I don't want to rely on Lindsey but when you factor in his defense, I think its a wash between the 2.

if our plan was to play delfino at the point, why havent we used delfino at the point?

darko... was he doing any harm here? was there some giant rush to move him? can you honestly say this deal is great for us? good? fair? why not just leave him off the playoff roster? its not like his value was getting any lower.
.

Keep him around for what? If someone doesn't want to be there and shows no effort I don't see why it would be beneficial to keep him instead of trading him for a high pick. Maybe he was being a nuisance to the team. I don't know. His excuses ran dry when Flip benched him.

THANKS YOU JOE D!

[smilie=hissyfit.gi: I hate this trade!!!!!!! BTW,I bet Joe's just going to waive Cato within the next 48 hours.