In response to Kstat's comment about keeping Ben over trading for Chandler a few pages back (don't feel like going for the quote)

You have 2 guys that used to be stars. Both had games that fully relied on their athleticism. Would you want to pay one of them for 2 years to be your backup C or one for 1 year that can play backup C and potentially net you a better player in a trade later this season?

Seems a bit obvious to me. Keep the one that you can trade later. Paying Chandler 12 million next season after your medical staff says he's no good would be ludicrous.

As for P's idea of Kwame and Max splitting the C time, that's a TERRIBLE idea. Max is not and never will be a center. If we have him out there at C for for 24mpg, we're going to be looking like a top-5 lottery team. We'd get lit up, relentlessly.

Jacob (Ypsilanti, Mich.): Why would the Pistons consider trading Rip Hamilton for Carlos Boozer? I understand Boozer is a good player and we need a spot for Gordon and Villanueva, but why not trade Prince?

Langloistat: Whoa. All this talk about a Hamilton-Boozer trade is getting a little out of hand. And it ignores one simple but significant fact: That trade doesn’t do anything to alleviate Utah’s overriding problem, which is going deep into tax territory to retain Paul Millsap. On a talent-for-talent basis to address each team’s needs, Hamilton for Boozer does make some sense. The Pistons need another big body up front and the Jazz, if they match Portland’s front-loaded offer to Millsap that will greatly exacerbate their tax liability, will have a lot of money tied up in the power forward and center spots with having just agreed to an extension for Mehmet Okur. But taking the next four years of Hamilton’s big contract means the Jazz could be looking at four years of paying luxury tax, not the one they’re facing by keeping Boozer and retaining Millsap. Sorry, that doesn’t really address your question, but it sort of does. As I’ve often said, you can’t separate a player from his contract, and in this case, while the player makes sense for Utah, the contract does not. If Utah trades Boozer, it’s more likely to be to a team with lots of cap space left and involve a lesser player (with a far lesser contract) and maybe a draft choice. There was a deal proposed to the Pistons last week that involved a third team and would have netted them Boozer, but they rejected it.



Kyle (Trenton, Mich.): I’ve seen talk about a possible sign and trade for Linas Kleiza, maybe involving Afflalo. I was just wondering about the validity of this rumor.

Langlois: I like Kleiza, but that doesn’t make much sense for the Pistons. Their next move has to be for a big man. The rumor that does have some validity, it would seem, is a deal that sends Afflalo to Denver – which doesn’t have cap space, but does have a trade exception – so the Pistons clear more cap room to increase their hunting options for a big man. Denver seems resigned to losing Kleiza.

Joe's probably trying to get Boozer without being bent over.

Joe's probably trying to get bent over without getting Boozer.

I've got a feeling that it'll be a 3-way trade where a third team gets Maxiell, Utah gets Kwame Brown, and the Pistons get Boozer. Just a feeling.

You're worried about overpaying now?

What do we have to spend? $3 mil?

Morons!

At this stage the only way I can get through each post is by telling myself that Joe is gonna give Maxiell this ONE season to show the world he's worthy - otherwise the train known as the Detroit Pistons is gonna drop him off at the next station.

Kwame? Dude gets ONE last shot at redemption. He kind of started down that road last season during the clusterfuck that was the Curry Error so maybe he can actually improve under Col. Que?

Small ball here we come:

C: Kwame 24 mins/Maxiell 24 mins
F: Powder 30/Summers + Jonas 18
F: Prince 30/Rip 12/Daye 6 (spends most of season in NBDL)
G: Rip 18/Gordon 30
G: Stuckey 30/Bynum 30

We'll probably hold onto Washington and AA cause you can never have enough swingmen. And by keeping them around we can all play the board game called Chris Bosh - "Deal At The Deadline" for one last season.

I forgot the green text.

Obviously Joe has no intention of playing Max at C.

I don't think he has any intention of playing anyone at C.

Joe loves playing 4 on 5 - he actually prefers 3 on 5 though.

Or did everyone forget all those years Ben was at C (and those years Curry also started)?

Yes, it was 4 on 5 on the offensive end when we had Ben at C, but our defense was so ridiculous that it didn't matter. We had enough offense to put up 80 points playing 4 on 5, and that's all we needed. We had a ridiculous stretch of keeping teams under 70 points. The guy that made a layup to put his team over 70 celebrated! That's how stunning our D was. I had no problem with 4 on 5 offense in that situation.

I've got a problem Z, maybe you can help me?

I know how to do the white text like this see? Can you see? No, you can't cause it's white But for some reason I always forget the green

Yes, it was 4 on 5 on the offensive end when we had Ben at C, but our defense was so ridiculous that it didn't matter. We had enough offense to put up 80 points playing 4 on 5, and that's all we needed. We had a ridiculous stretch of keeping teams under 70 points. The guy that made a layup to put his team over 70 celebrated! That's how stunning our D was. I had no problem with 4 on 5 offense in that situation.


You know how much I would KILL for that? To be able to trot a team out there that says "If we can score 80, we will probably win." To me, that was enjoyable basketball, this pussy shit that disguises itself as NBA basketball nowadays is weak.

DBTM, Please don't ever use Pussy and Shit in the same sentence. Bad imagery.

DBTM, Please don't ever use Pussy and Shit in the same sentence. Bad imagery.


lol my bad, change it to weak shit

I wish we could find Bison. He would be solid in the post.

Is there enough cap room/would New Oreans consider Tyson C for Kwame, Max and our cap room? Then we can sign Ben at the vets minimum.

Tyson's too injured...fuck that shit

I wish we could find Bison. He would be solid in the post.

Is there enough cap room/would New Oreans consider Tyson C for Kwame, Max and our cap room? Then we can sign Ben at the vets minimum.

If Tyson was expiring I'd do it. To me we need to solve center one of two ways:

1) trade for a long term solution there (with a combination of RIP, Tay, Max, Kwame)

2) get an expiring yet productive center (for the same players above) and try again next year at Amare or Bosh.

Signing Davis, trading for stop gap type centers with multiple years is a waste of time. If it takes Joe a couple years to get back in the playoffs people will call for his head.

You know how much I would KILL for that? To be able to trot a team out there that says "If we can score 80, we will probably win." To me, that was enjoyable basketball, this pussy shit that disguises itself as NBA basketball nowadays is weak.

It's a shame the NBA legislated that style of play out of existence as soon as the pistons won the title starting with the "no touching on the perimeter" rule at the start of the 04-05 season.

Portland is still trying to pry Tayshaun Prince(notes) out of Detroit in a three-way deal with Utah, but Pistons president Joe Dumars hasn’t shown an inclination to move Prince and extend Boozer’s contract, league sources say. Several league executives are dubious of Boozer as a $14 million-a-year player, which his agent, Rob Pelinka, has told teams it will take to sign him to an extension. Miami could be the suitor willing to pay it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-odomboozer071509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

If portland wants Tay, give us Outlaw and Pryz!

Or give us Boozer and we can let his crippled ass walk next off-season.

More cap space!

Imagine the excitement.

KING (AGAIN)

KING JOE II

Or give us Boozer and we can let his crippled ass walk next off-season.

More cap space!

Imagine the excitement.

I'd take Boozer for Tay if we're also getting Rudy Fernandez and Outlaw. Oh, and to make salaries match, Utah would need to take Max and his $5 million dollar salary. I think that gets them under the luxury tax, even if they match Portland's offer to Millsap.

Of course, with Rudy on board, in addition to Stuckey, Ben, and Rip, we would really need to trade Rip. I've fantasized about a Rip for Okafor deal but I don't think Jordan is quite that dumb. Maybe, but probably not. I like a three-guard rotation of Stuckey, Rudy, Ben. They're kind of turnstilish on defense. It would be nice if we could add a defensive stopper to that mix, like hmmm... I don't know, maybe Arron Aflalo?

Either way, I think a fresh start does us all some good. Except for Rip if he was stuck in Charlotte playing on a team where Nazr, Diop, and Ajinca are the centers. Kinda sucks for him.

I don't think Okafor, Boozer, Charlie V, Ben, Stuckey, Outlaw, Rudy, and the 2nd rounders would be contenders, but we'd be a playoff team IMO. Kwame would have to take all of the backup minutes at Center, Boozer and Charlie V would play all the minutes at PF, and Outlaw could log plenty of minutes backing up Charlie V at SF since Charlie V would slide over to PF when Boozer is on the bench (or injured, which would probably be often).

Nah, won't fly.

Somehow I don't see us getting Outlaw, Boozer and Rudy Fernandez for Tayshaun and Maxiell.

We could do Tay for Outlaw/Pryzbilla Gorilla and leave Utah stuck with Boozer.

Not long to go now though - the clock is ticking on the Utah Jazz. I'm interested to see what they're gonna do.

Somehow I don't see us getting Outlaw, Boozer and Rudy Fernandez for Tayshaun and Maxiell.

We could do Tay for Outlaw/Pryzbilla Gorilla and leave Utah stuck with Boozer.

Not long to go now though - the clock is ticking on the Utah Jazz. I'm interested to see what they're gonna do.

I'd do that, too, but I don't think Portland is willing to move Pryzbilla given the fragile state of Greg Oden.

If Oden had the legs of an early-20s guy instead of a late 40s guy, they'd definitely do that deal. Unfortunately, they have no other options at C when Oden is injured or in foul trouble. Combined, those cover probably 70 games a season.

Maybe we should be talking Oden for Prince. High risk/reward.

I didn't want to make that post. Thanks Herm.

Yeah, neither did I. Word is Portland is super fucking stoked about how healthy he is and his speed is back and he looks great.

In other news, Darko put on another 25 pounds of muscle (brining him to a grand total of 186 lbs added since he was drafted) and is finally ready to dominate.

Oden and Outlaw for Prince? They have a few young SFs, they could afford to include on. We'd have to see what our medical guru could do with his knee.

Yeah, neither did I. Word is Portland is super fucking stoked about how healthy he is and his speed is back and he looks great.

In other news, Darko put on another 25 pounds of muscle (brining him to a grand total of 186 lbs added since he was drafted) and is finally ready to dominate.


lol that cracked me up

They wouldn't toss in Outlaw. I think they keep everyone else, or give us scraps.

You were too scared to make it a thread in the FWTI forum.

We don't make the trade if its just Oden for Prince. Not a chance. In the very least we'd get Webster.

Maybe we should be talking Oden for Prince. High risk/reward.

Why would we want a 40 year old?

Joe would do Oden for Prince in 10 seconds. Oden and anyone else for Prince in 5 seconds. Don't get me wrong, Tay is good, but Oden is a low price, low liability, obscenely upside center. Not a chance in the world he would pass that up.

Joe would do Oden for Prince in 10 seconds. Odom and anyone else for Prince in 5 seconds. Don't get me wrong, Tay is good, but Oden is a low price, low liability, obscenely upside player. Not a chance in the world he would pass that up.

Oden, right?

Fixed and thanks.

Oden is a low price, low liability, obscenely upside center.

Uhhhhhh.........


Actually, I do think Joe would make that trade in a heartbeat on second thought. We don't have a starting SF, but we still have Rip as a potential trading piece, Kwame's expiring contract and an extra $5m in cap space, putting us up around $8.6m.

Plus, we have a guy that could potentially bounce back from his injury and be a monster on defense. He's either going to be a fouling machine forever or he's going to be great. Worth a shot since we're in rebuilding mode. He fits the profile I've been talking about and we have Arnie's Magical Alpaca Blood.


I wonder if Portland's called asking about Prince and Joe's said "How about Oden". I think I just talked myself into liking that deal.

We could live with RIP at SF for a while. Sure, we'd get killed by Lebron and PP but I suspect he'd make a change at some point in the season.

What if it was Tay/Max/Pick for Oden/Outlaw?

Then RIP would split his minutes on the wing positions.

Rip guards Bron much better than Tay.

Portland would much sooner do Tay for Oden than that deal Chris.

I think its time we ALL recognized that Maxiell's contract is a minus in negotiations and that it is really only acceptable to include him if we are taking on someone with an even worse contract.

Hermy agreed. Everyone sucks against LBJ and PP, but Tay was awful too.

New York Daily News:

Utah overpaid to keep Paul Millsap, but that's the price the Jazz has chosen to pay as it looks to find Carlos Boozer a new home. Due to financial considerations, the Jazz doesn't want to take back a big contract when it moves Boozer. Detroit is said to be entering the hunt, while Miami and Chicago have had interest all along.

Nets express interest in Davis
By Marc J. Spears, Yahoo! Sports

The New Jersey Nets are among the teams who have expressed interest in Boston Celtics restricted free-agent forward Glen Davis(notes), a league source said Monday.

The Nets still have their $5.8 million mid-level exception to spend as they search through their options from a pool of free-agent power forwards that also includes Lamar Odom(notes) and Drew Gooden(notes). The Nets also are interested in Carlos Boozer(notes), whom the Utah Jazz are trying to trade.

The Celtics have said they would match any reasonable offer for Davis. The Detroit Pistons, New Orleans Hornets and Portland Trail Blazers, league sources said, tried to work a sign-and-trade deal for Davis only to be rebuffed by the Celtics. Boston did offer Davis and guards J.R. Giddens(notes) and Gabe Pruitt(notes) to the Pistons for forward Jason Maxiell(notes) and a first-round pick, but was quickly turned down.

A Pistons 1st round pick is more valuable than it used to be.

I would have done it in a heartbeat for a 2nd rounder though.

Agreed.

J.R. Giddens and Gabe Pruitt?
Pruitt will expire after the season and he'd be our 3rd PG. He's one of the guys I thought we'd take a look at when we drafted Afflalo.
Giddens would be our 3rd SG and he has a team option for the next two seasons, meaning he could also come off the books next year if we decided not to keep him. He'd fill in as the 3rd SG, possibly keeping Washington overseas.
We'd rid ourselves of Max's contract. We'd get Davis, who Joe has been after.
That's not a bad haul.
What if we had top-20 protection on the pick? Would Boston do the deal then?

Maybe this is Joe showing that he wants to keep Max. The whole trading Max idea was never a public rumor, it was always just a WTFDetroit thing.

I'm surprised that the Mavs haven't thrown their MLE at Baby.

i'm with Z. we should've made it top 20 protected or even top 15 protected. if we did that, i don't see how we could refuse that deal.

I'm pretty sure that if we parted with the 16th pick for Davis, there'd be a cry for Joe's head. I wouldn't go a step below 20, and even then I think I'd take my chances with the 21st pick over Davis. We need a center, not another PF who can play little bits of C.

I'm pretty sure that if we parted with the 16th pick for Davis, there'd be a cry for Joe's head. I wouldn't go a step below 20, and even then I think I'd take my chances with the 21st pick over Davis. We need a center, not another PF who can play little bits of C.

Well the #15 pick is gold and the #27 pick is trash, so #21 is right in the middle.

We don't do that deal because the primary need is a shot blocker

Maybe this is Joe showing that he wants to keep Max. The whole trading Max idea was never a public rumor, it was always just a WTFDetroit thing.
or it shows that davis isnt worth what some think.

I don't think he's any better than Max. He does some things better, some things worse. He's just bigger and could potentially play some C, somewhere Max should never play. Ever.

It's not that Davis is or isn't better than Maxiell.

The deal SHOULD have been done simply to clear Maxiell's bloated contract extension off the books.

We might give up our first round pick in the next draft but are we seriously thinking of adding more rookies to this young group?

I think we could justify losing the pick by claiming that Daye, Summers and Jerebko would be "ready for more minutes" aka "internal development".

Were this any other GM, I'd say "sure, if it's a lottery-protected pick". Given that it's Dumars, I'd almost want a non-lottery protected pick. :)

I wouldn't care where the pick was in the Draft. You'd naturally have Lotto protection the 1st year, then we could have zero protection the next.

Moving Maxiell would have made this off-season IMO. He simply isn't worth the MLE, which is basically what we'll be paying him.

IF by some miracle John Q Cleveland can make him an awesome role player that boards and blocks and bangs I'll be the first to say I was wrong but until Maxiell shows he can handle 25 minutes per night and can be a force out there he's way overpaid IMO.

I don't want to give up any firsts. If we can't trade for a quality big we are going to need to draft one. The more 1sts that we have, the better. I wouldn't mind throwing Boston a couple of 2nds though.

I have to agree. Also consider that Maxiell's contract actually isn't that bad. It is a problem when trying to sing FAs, but once you are capped out, like we almost are, then it makes less of a difference. Max really just has to up the output a little to be worth 5mill. I would consider it if we traded him for actual cap room now, and had a deal with Lee or Odom.

are we seriously thinking of adding more rookies to this young group?
Why not add another rookie 1st rounder to the team next year, P?

What's so much better about having a summer leaguer in the 3rd PG role instead of having a promising rookie as our PG depth? He may end up being the #2 PG with Bynum being a FA next year. Who knows what will happen there.

What's wrong with having a rookie SG taking Washington's spot on the roster next year, or taking over backup SG if we move Rip?

What's wrong with a rookie big man? Having a rookie in the frontcourt that can develop and work his way into the rotation is not a bad thing. We have CV, Max, and Wilcox under contract for next year. If we still have them and get an improvement at C, we'll still want one more big for depth. Why not have it be a rookie?

I just don't understand the logic in not wanting to add another young piece while we're rebuilding, or ever for that matter.

It's not that Davis is or isn't better than Maxiell.

The deal SHOULD have been done simply to clear Maxiell's bloated contract extension off the books.

We might give up our first round pick in the next draft but are we seriously thinking of adding more rookies to this young group?

I think we could justify losing the pick by claiming that Daye, Summers and Jerebko would be "ready for more minutes" aka "internal development".


Wow. Just wow.

...so, your brilliant logic is, get rid of a bloated Maxiell contract by taking back a soon-to-be bloated Glen Davis contract, and throw in a 1st rounder because we already have enough young talent?

Yes, with all the young centers currently on the roster, we obviously have no need for a 1st rounder next season. Let's just give it away at the first opportunity.

That is Matt Millen-type logic. The worst of the worst. thank god you aren't actually in charge of anything that matters.

I miss Glan. He made much more sense than this.

Davis would have made 3.5 mil a year starting out if we signed him. Even at the MLE he's better than Max because he can play center. Max only has on position. I would move Max for Davis for sure. I'm not interested in giving them first rounders though.

There is also the interest in Davis by other teams. If he doesn't fit, he can be traded. There really doesn't seem to be much interest in Max.

Wow. Just wow.

...so, your brilliant logic is, get rid of a bloated Maxiell contract by taking back a soon-to-be bloated Glen Davis contract, and throw in a 1st rounder because we already have enough young talent?

Yes, with all the young centers currently on the roster, we obviously have no need for a 1st rounder next season. Let's just give it away at the first opportunity.

That is Matt Millen-type logic. The worst of the worst. thank god you aren't actually in charge of anything that matters.

I miss Glan. He made much more sense than this.

You make me say "WOW"?

I can't believe that you actually called Davis' cheap ass contract "soon to be bloated".

LMAO!

And yeah, I'll stand by my statement that with Davis, Summers, Jerebko, Daye, Washington, Stuckey, Pruit and JR on the books I wouldn't be concerned if we gave up ONE first round pick.

You can't give everyone playing time to develop.

It's funny you mention us not having centers in relation to the pick I was willing to part with. Have you already decided to draft for need in 11 months time?

WOW!

It's a little early to be thinking of forfeiting the Best Player Available idea and going for the best C available.

But thanks for posting.

As long as we disagree I'll be feeling alright.

I agree in one way with Kstat. I think there will be some size in next year's draft in the 1st round that has all the potential to be better than Davis and also cheaper. Meanwhile Max is still a high-energy spark plug that is a perfect asset as long as you agree to take him at face value. He's the Vinny Johnson of PF's.

I still say Glenn Davis is overrated and won't do much on a team that isnt Stern ref endorsed.

I still say Glenn Davis is overrated and won't do much on a team that isnt Stern ref endorsed.

Not sure how a young big man that performed the way he did in the playoffs and is scrapping for a piece of someones's MLE can be "overrated", but yeah.

Not sure how a young big man that performed the way he did in the playoffs and is scrapping for a piece of someones's MLE can be "overrated", but yeah.

Agreed.

Foul rate is the key.

At >4 fouls/game in a playoff series, bigs aren't gonna play big minutes during the regular season to perform. Dalembert was the same way, making his money performing well against us in a playoff series, then not being able to stay on the court for 30+ mpg come regular-season time.

File under: Young STAR center demands trade


I’m a star but on the bench: Haddadi

TEHRAN, Aug. 25 (MNA) -- Iranian international Hamed Haddadi says he is a star of the Memphis Grizzlies but the NBA team leaves him on the bench and off the court most of the time.

“Grizzlies’ officials don’t let me show my abilities. I have done my best every time I was called up to play for my team, but I don’t know why they don’t trust me,” added Haddadi, who was the first Iranian basketball player to make it to the NBA.

“I vant to play regularly for the Grizzlies; nevertheless I will have to change my team now since I am a star of the team but sitting on the bench,” he told the Mehr News Agency in an interview at the MNA offices on Monday.

The 7-foot-2 player helped Iran win the 25th FIBA Asia Championship for men two weeks ago. Haddadi, who scored 31 points in Iran’s final triumph two years ago, was once again the leading scorer for his side in the final with 19 points against China.

“I could not do my best against Jordan but played well against China in the final. We could have won the match even if Yao Ming would have played against us,” he added.

http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=936058

YOU LISTENING, JOE DUMARS!?!

If he thinks he's a star and he can't get off the Memphis bench, I don't want him. He's definitely a Joe type, you know, since Darko was a Joe type and sounded the same way.

career highs of 10 points and 8 rebounds.

Of course, he never played more than 18 minutes in any game.

What was the point in signing him? 22 years old and 7-2 with some skill, and the memphis grizzlies never saw fit to give him a chance?

He's still an unknown as far as I'm concerned. I'd be ok with picking him up.

Haddadi has a PER of 19.7 and a +9 +/- rating. Hollinger would ejaculate on himself if he weren't a cunt.

Obviously, Haddadi was playing against scrubs, but he is making a case on the court that he should get more minutes. (Off the court is another story.)

I'm hearing that he had trouble with english last year and fell behind.

I'm hearing that he had trouble with english last year and fell behind.

That's why you (not you in particular) have to be careful with the "star" comment. Odds are pretty good that's not what he intended to say.

That's why you (not you in particular) have to be careful with the "star" comment. Odds are pretty good that's not what he intended to say.

I considered that it might be a "lost in translation" moment, but considering the source, I'm not so sure.

http://www.mehrnews.com/en/AboutUs.aspx

So what's the difference between him and Gortat? Exposure?

Evidence.