to wrap up, i wouldn't pay either guy $8 mil per year. if he's not worth it, he's not worth it.

that's just how i see it. my point with the konkack comparison was that he was a good, solid player. not saying that he wasn't. but he was vastly overpaid, that's all.

A starting salary of $8 mil is more than fair, considering there will be no one else bidding. It simply comes down to what the breaking point is for Utah and New York.

And that adds another interesting wrinkle as we head into the offseason. Turkoglu is going to opt out of his contract in the summer and there are mutterings that the Pistons are ready to offer him a big deal to come there.

But after watching tonight, isn't it fair to ask if Joe Dumars -- or any other team with cap money -- might be better off pursuing the 23-year-old Ariza rather than the 30-year-old Turkoglu? In addition to being seven years younger, Ariza had the better PER this season and is the better defender, so the lure of Turkoglu may be based more on reputation than reality.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090615

i am afraid, but i agree with Hollinger on this one, i want Ariza! he's the best defender in the FA pool, proved himself on a championchip squad, get rid of Tay and/or RIP for a big and sign Ariza+ Millsap...plus you know what both are ONLY 23 YEARS OLD ! :D

sheer stupidity. The Pistons would regret either of those signings for any more than $7 million.

I'll amend that if Joe goes out and Gets Ben Gordon and Ariza, given that those two would complement each other beautifully, and leverages Tay and Rip for a quality big man.

is ariza only 23? it seems like he's older than that for some reason....

i agree. he was on NY and Orlando, right? He does seem older than that.

He came right out of HS, IIRC. Either that or only 1 yr of college ball.

No big deal, hell, Lebron is only 24.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? ONLY 24!!111

I'm pretty sure Ariza was a 1 year guy in college. I know he played for UCLA. If we got a bigtime scorer at SG and PF, grabbing a hustling defender at SF would not be a bad thing in the slightest.

Turkoglu opting for free agency.

I have been saying all along that chasing Turkoglu would be foolish. The guy is 30 years old and is not worth the money we would have to pay (I agree with Kstat - anything over $7 mil for him is too steep)

IF the MLE is approx $5 mil I would hazard a guess and say that Ariza could be had for a starting salary of $6 mil. If the Lakers wanna pay him that then good for them - enjoy paying the luxury tax. He's not worth more than $6 mil though and we don't wanna just throw money around cause we've got it.

Fair market value and not much more IMO. We're the only real playoff team bidding for any of these cats.

I'm pretty sure Ariza was a 1 year guy in college. I know he played for UCLA. If we got a bigtime scorer at SG and PF, grabbing a hustling defender at SF would not be a bad thing in the slightest.

u ah correct sah

I have been saying all along that chasing Turkoglu would be foolish. The guy is 30 years old and is not worth the money we would have to pay (I agree with Kstat - anything over $7 mil for him is too steep)

IF the MLE is approx $5 mil I would hazard a guess and say that Ariza could be had for a starting salary of $6 mil. If the Lakers wanna pay him that then good for them - enjoy paying the luxury tax. He's not worth more than $6 mil though and we don't wanna just throw money around cause we've got it.

Fair market value and not much more IMO. We're the only real playoff team bidding for any of these cats.

careful

What other team has a ton of cap space and has our history?

What other team has a ton of cap space and has our history?
Didn't the Bulls have that after MJ at one point? Orlando had the space, but no history of winning to attract FA's.

For some reason I think they had a lot of space around the time of the Brand trade. Or was that when Kobe was going to be a FA and they wanted to try for him?

Has.

We can haz cap space.

I love Ariza's game, but can he hold up over an 82 game season guarding the other teams best player every night? Ariza had the luxury of playing next to Kobe on offense AND defense. At least we know Prince will hold up over the course of a year.

We know that Tay has held up all year, will that continue?

Finding that point of diminishing returns is key.

Do we know Ariza would play as well outside the triangle?

Do we know Ariza would play as well outside the triangle?

Nope.

Do we know that Kobe would?

Great comparison.

That's what I do.

Nope.

Do we know that Kobe would?
Did they play the triangle in the 2008 Olympics?

I was obviously EXAGGERATING.

I thought I would give that a try.

I was obviously EXAGGERATING.

I thought I would give that a try.
Nope, you were serious. You also think MJ would have sucked outside the triangle. In fact Washington proves there was a big drop off without Phil in your mind.

Cool, I don't even need to post anymore!

lol - I think it's a fair statement in regard to Ariza though. Dude played in some other systems and did squat.

Now he's next to Kobe, Odom, Gasol, Bynum and Fisher in the triangle and all of a sudden he's worth the MLE?

I'm not saying he can't be successful elsewhere, just we've never seen it. He could be the next Bobby Simmons.

If nothing else, he'll defend.

Don't forget his 3 point shooting.

Don't forget his 3-point shooting


Don't forget MY 3-point shooting


No forge my 3 punt shuting


I can shoot 3's too


I can shoot 3-pointers too

Matt (Grand Rapids, Mich.): Why not trade for J.J. Redick? I saw much more from him in these playoffs than I have in the past. He is an excellent shooter and an underrated passer. He is a better player than a No. 3 shooting guard and the Magic would be best served to trade him if they don’t intend to use him more. What are your thoughts?

Langlois: First things first, Matt. The Pistons’ roster decisions are going to be shaped by what they do in free agency. I’m not saying they’re going to sign Ben Gordon, but that’s one possibility. And if they sign Gordon – whether or not they subsequently work out a trade for Rip Hamilton or not – another shooting guard probably isn’t going to be their first priority. Redick is due to make almost $3 million next year – not a ton of money, but enough that if you’re going to take it on you’d want to make sure you have a role for him. Is Redick really a better player than Arron Afflalo? It’s possible the Magic would essentially give Redick away to a team with cap space (the Pistons, among few teams, have it) for two reasons: (1) They have both Courtney Lee and Mickael Pietrus at shooting guard and (2) they’d save $3 million which could be put toward a new deal for Hedo Turkoglu and cut some off Orlando’s luxury-tax bill. So if the Pistons are contemplating a run at Turkoglu as a free agent, it wouldn’t make sense to help Orlando keep him by taking Redick’s salary.

Wish we had Pietrus at SG.

me too. wanted him last offseason. ah well....

i keep reading the 'rip to washington for the #5 and expiring contracts' rumor and makes me wonder if it could really happen.

can't wait for draft day to see how it all unfolds...

Teams "back East" where Rip might be happy:

Philly - almost home.
Washington - how much did he like Flip? How much did Flip like him?
Charlotte - you know LB loved him

New York is an interesting proposition. They are looking to have enough cap space to sign 2 MAX free agents in 2010. Would they like to have MAX cap space for 1 dude and Rip?

As long as they keep Lebron space, I could see NY interested. What would you get from them for RIP?

The Boston Celtics (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/bos/;_ylt=At1ub5TUO75jdYhoyOtv.QnTjdIF) appear willing to make major roster changes to balance a chance for a championship run and future financial flexibility.
The Celtics offered Ray Allen (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3080/;_ylt=Aisp9SHgXT1r4CwPmzR2jqDTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3080/news;_ylt=AmebSMlT6F8va6uD4bajPq_TjdIF) and Rajon Rondo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4149/;_ylt=AqedrLjf7kTauWm_B5PwJBLTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4149/news;_ylt=Ak6glOZy7Knp5I_KuamOmTXTjdIF) to the Detroit Pistons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det/;_ylt=AlgyV7k4dbWXoVaktU8vr8LTjdIF) for a package that included Richard Hamilton (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3330/;_ylt=Al9JCRZT2JqSUmvxGRoBUZnTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3330/news;_ylt=Ar9jJwzcPiWjDd2e.u7M1F3TjdIF), Tayshaun Prince (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3621/;_ylt=AvSsuGu87KpV0P4kXDvLZfTTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3621/news;_ylt=Apuvr3p5vxzvdgqwuFUXzZLTjdIF) and Rodney Stuckey (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4293/;_ylt=AkdlCi.gBQCjvgqdeUmfYT7TjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4293/news;_ylt=AliErIXeHTDSoPTvzfbf6BPTjdIF), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Boston general manager Danny Ainge and Detroit’s Joe Dumars never spoke, but rather the Celtics had a lower-level executive make the pitch to a Pistons official over the past weekend, league sources said. Detroit immediately rejected the idea, and it never advanced to the two top executives speaking about particulars.

This isn’t an uncommon occurrence for a GM like Ainge to dispatch an underling to make that kind of a call, if for no other reason to give the top executive some level of deniability that he’s shopping his stars.

This isn’t the first time that Allen, a six-time All-Star, has been mentioned in trade talks this summer. Allen, who will soon turn 34, has an expiring contract of nearly $20 million, for next season. Rondo, 24, a rapidly developing point guard, has been publically termed off-limits by Ainge in trade discussion this summer. Nevertheless, his name found a way into this conversation. Rondo averaged 11.9 points, 8.2 assists and 5.2 rebounds in the regular season, and had three triple-doubles in the Celtics’ playoff run this season.

Boston is unlikely to re-sign Allen to a long-term extension next summer, and there is belief around the league that the Celtics have hesitancy about committing a long-term, expensive contract to Rondo.
There has been some friction with Rondo, largely based on maturity. No issues with him are insurmountable, but Ainge has never minded shopping ideas around the league. Nevertheless, it’s hard to imagine a deal that Boston could do with these two players that would give them a chance to stay a championship contender around Kevin Garnett (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3007/;_ylt=An._g9Y2rDIHON9WgBxFPx_TjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3007/news;_ylt=ApFGYzmjrt_jEIcNtjEdtRbTjdIF) and Paul Pierce (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3253/;_ylt=AiDSYo_k0YG6bscWTFYPvEPTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3253/news;_ylt=AsQaShhocGdIc9r1NGgtV4_TjdIF).

For the Pistons, this deal makes little sense, unless they wanted to let Allen’s expiring deal gain even more salary cap space for the free-agent class of 2010. The idea of trading his three best returners for an expiring contract and one good young player wasn’t worth considering for Dumars, sources said.

Posted twice for some reason. Oh well. I can't wait to wake up and see the responses to the above.

WHO THE FUCK DO THEY THINK WE ARE?

Chris - possibly a sign and trade for David Lee and their first round pick.

I can't think of anything else they would have that we would be interested in.

As for the Boston thing I think Joe was smart not to do that deal - it's a fucking insult. What were we supposed to do? Hang on to all our cap space, have a team of bums play next season and then try to attract Bosh and Lebron or some shit?

All to play with Rondo? I like Rondo but not that much.

Wojnarowski is solid, but I hope that's a joke.

i wouldn't trade those 3 guys for rondo and jesus christ. much less rondo and jesus shuttlesworth.

I would have fired Joe myself had he pulled the trigger on that deal.

Fired him?

I would have got my passport, flown to LA, caught a connecting flight to Detroit, stole a car, found Joe's house, broke in and ...

feel to the floor in his presence lol

I'd be too fucking tired from the trip to kick his ass.

Ray and Rondo for Tay, Rip, and Stuckey.

Source Yahoo!

That trade offer sucks my ass.

Seems this is being discussed in the other thread BBF so I doubt you'll get much going here.

That said can anyone improve the Boston deal to the point Joe would even look at it?

Obviously Rondo and Ray aren't enough - their picks are worth next to nothing. Who do they have that we might want?

Perkins?
Big Baby?

I'm guessing that Joe let this offer get out for strategic purposes. Or is that giving him too much credit?

I think it's common knowledge that all Pistons are avialable in a trade, you just gotta make an offer.

Maybe they did leak this to let teams know that 1 young gun and a massive expiring deal isn't what we want?

Maybe it's also a sign to teams that we have no interest in waiting for the free agent class of 2010 - we're gonna spend it this off-season.

Maybe it's a little bit of both?

if tay was left out, i think i'd do it..BUT WHY FUCKING ADD TAYSHAUN PRINCE?

wow seriously? it didn't even make it to joe.

imagine

Perkins
KG
Pierce
Rip
Stuckey

with tay as their 6th...

we'd have

rondo
ray
fucking idk maybe turk?
maybe boozer?
kwame?

we'd still have capspace, alot of it actually, but Rondo is going to get an extension soon.

Atleast there are some rumors flying around though

Such a bad deal it's unbelievable. Trade the Pistons best 3 players for a good young pointguard and Jesus Shuttlesworth. Ugh.

AingeTweet


DA: "I'm not sure why his is popping up, but we love Rajon. It doesn't seem like you have to have any source any more (to report rumors)."

http://twitter.com/celtics

yeah. They love Rajon so much they want badly to deal him while his value is high.

Supposedly, he is having maturity issues behind the scenes.

Rondo does have skills. What about Ray(exp), Rondo, Tony Allen(exp), Scalabrine (exp) and a future 1st for Tay, Rip, and Max?

Rondo, Ray, Stuck, AA and Bynum would be a solid back court. This would also give us even more cap room for 2010. Bigs would still be a problem but we would have good flexibility for both off seasons or a shitload of expirings for the trade dealine.

That only really works (long term) if Stuckey can develop a three point shot. Also, who comes off the bench? Ray is not a SF, that is for sure.

We would have to pick up a SF in FA.

Well, I'm leery of Gordon and Stuckey, but Gordon at least has a three point shot. How would Rondo and Stuckey work?

We would have to pick up a SF in FA.

Because even a backup SF has been easy to come by the last few seasons.

They wouldn't, Chris. End of story.

not a pistons rumour specifically, BUT definitely something to keep an eye on:

POSTED: June 24 -- 10:24 p.m. ET

Andy Katz: A source with knowledge of the situation said the Clippers wanted to move Chris Kaman but weren't able to do so as of Wednesday. There was nothing imminent for draft night.

The source said that the Clippers will continue to try to move one of three players -- Kaman, Marcus Camby or Zach Randolph -- by the time training camp opens. The source said the only 100 percent certainty is that expected top pick Blake Griffin will be in training camp

rip for kaman?

Doesn't Kaman have some insane trade kicker?

I guess he could waive it if he wanted to come here.

But is Kaman, Boozer, Prince, Gordon and Stuckey a title contender?

http://www.nypost.com/img/cols/petervecsey.jpg


If Danny Ainge had the nerve to propose Rajon Rondo and Ray Allen in exchange for Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rodney Stuckey, as a report insisted, he didn't have the guts to deal directly with Joe Dumars.

Joe never spoke to anyone from Boston about this, e-mailed a Pistons official.

"Sounds like Danny had one of his scouts call one of Joe's scouts and run it up the flag pole. When the scout presented it to Joe he thought it he was a joke, but was told it was serious. Joe's response was, 'You gotta be kidding me!' His next response was, 'Absolutely not!'

"So, to answer your question, JOE NEVER TALKED TO AINGE. I don't know if that means they made a real offer or not. Smile."

That's nice to read.

Pistons Insider Peter Vecsey to the rescue.

Doesn't Kaman have some insane trade kicker?

I guess he could waive it if he wanted to come here.

But is Kaman, Boozer, Prince, Gordon and Stuckey a title contender?

a lot closer than we would be otherwise. still need to trade prince IMO. but that roster would be a pretty good start.

interesting comment by joe which gives insight into the type of FAs we might pursue too:

"As you know, I put a premium on character and guys that will represent us the right way," Dumars said. "Never again will I allow us to deal with issues like we're dealing with this year. I refuse to go down that road again."

makes you wonder exactly what went on behind closed doors last year. it had to be more than just iverson or sheed acting up. right?

I think Iverson/Sheed's attitude and maybe Rip's sulking is what Joe is talking about.

He's from an era where players man'd up and played the game as hard as they could. Not because they were making $10 mil per season, but because they wanted to be the best.

It seems Joe is not happy with superstar wannabes not giving it their all when they are paid big money to do so.

It's about fucking time Joe! Now get busy and buy us some real fucking players with heart, guts and some nuts.

I don't care if we're a .500 team for the next 5 years IF the team is working it's ass off every single game.

interesting comment by joe which gives insight into the type of FAs we might pursue too:

"As you know, I put a premium on character and guys that will represent us the right way," Dumars said. "Never again will I allow us to deal with issues like we're dealing with this year. I refuse to go down that road again."

makes you wonder exactly what went on behind closed doors last year. it had to be more than just iverson or sheed acting up. right?

:SHIT STORM!:

FWIW, DD2K on MLive is reporting that Rip for Boozer is being discussed, or something to that effect.

FWIW, DD2K on MLive is reporting that Rip for Boozer is being discussed, or something to that effect.

I'd be ok with that if we let Boozer/Kwame walk and got Bosh or Amare from it. Max would be pretty much useless though.

What about RIP/Max for Boozer/Brewer?

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/Brewer/AA
SF Tay/Brewer/Charlie
PF Boozer/Charlie
C Kwame/Dice?

Kwame, Boozer and Brewer would expire giving us Bosh/Amare money.

Who is DD2K again...

is he 'plugged in'

Dave Dial, works for Mlive, pretty much does what I do here (looks for relevant articles and posts them)

I'd be ok with that if we let Boozer/Kwame walk and got Bosh or Amare from it. Max would be pretty much useless though.

What about RIP/Max for Boozer/Brewer?

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/Brewer/AA
SF Tay/Brewer/Charlie
PF Boozer/Charlie
C Kwame/Dice?

Kwame, Boozer and Brewer would expire giving us Bosh/Amare money.
So next year, assuming we can somehow lure Bosh this way and he and CV pair up well together, which a few people around here don't seem to like, we'd be:


PG Stuckey/Bynum (if we resign him)
SG Gordon/AA/Washington
SF Tay/Daye/Summers
PF CV/Jarebko
C Bosh

I think we brought CV here to be a starter, so you'd have Boozer starting next to him this year as your C. We'd have to find some serious help since that leaves us with no backups at PF this year and no backup PF/C next year. I guess if they think Jarebko is going to be a PF, he could earn some backup PF time. Other than that, we're empty.

I'd almost rather just move Rip for a young C right now and let the team develop some chemistry and grow together instead of hoping we can land someone next year. Give me Okafor for Rip. Then we have a down low C next to our floating athletic PF.

The ideal thing would be to trade for the big now. then we can exceed the cap to resign him (if it were a FA like Bosh or Amare) and also use the MLE on a backup big.

Dave Dial finds another gem (or has it handed to him):

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/report_detroit_pistons_sign_de.html

Report: Detroit Pistons sign Deron Washington to guaranteed contract

Posted by Dave Dial (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/about.html) July 03, 2009 00:01AM

Deron Washington's coach at Virginia Tech has stated that the Detroit Pistons and Deron Washington have agreed to a guaranteed contract.

July 3, Daily Press: (http://www.dailypress.com/sports/spt_deron_0702,0,334315.story?track=rss) Virginia Tech head coach Seth Greenberg posted on his Twitter account that former Hokies standout Deron Washington has signed a guaranteed contract with the Detroit Pistons, who selected him 59th overall (second round) in the 2008 NBA draft.This was sent to me via email by Full-Court Press reader Erik S., who also speculated that the Pistons signing Washington to a guaranteed contract could mean that he is involved in a trade that will be consummated July 8th, when free agents can sign and teams can begin making trades.
Moves like that(signing players like Washington to guaranteed contracts) are often made when one team has to send back a certain amount of money back in a trade. For example, if Detroit is $4 million under the cap after signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva and were to get involved with the Hornets in a trade for Tyson Chandler, the Pistons would have to send back a certain amount of salaries in order to make it work.
Chandler makes $12.2 million dollars, and the Pistons might be $4 million under the cap so a straight salary dump couldn't work. Stay tuned...

Hope there's no connection here:

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/gordon_in_a_signandtrade_for_i.html
Gordon in a sign-and-trade for Iverson?

Posted by Dave Dial (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/about.html) July 02, 2009 22:56PM

Ken Berger of CBS Sports has been pretty busy the last couple days. He's broke some pretty big signings, the latest of which are Ron Artest to the Lakers and now Trevor Ariza to the Rockets. Now he is reporting that the Bulls and Pistons may work out a sign and trade between Ben Gordon and Allen Iverson.

July 2, CBS Sports: (http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/15865675) Ben Gordon to the Pistons is a done deal. The method by which he will get there is still under discussion. CBSSports.com has learned that the Bulls and Pistons may yet revisit Detroit's agreement with Ben Gordon and instead investigate a sign-and-trade that would send Allen Iverson to Chicago.
Discussions have not yet reached the highest levels of both organizations, but the revised look at how Gordon goes from Chicago to Detroit would benefit Gordon and the Bulls. Gordon would get an extra year, and thus more money, by signing with the Bulls and getting traded. The Bulls, who currently are getting nothing for losing him, would get Iverson -- a fading future Hall of Famer who would get to finish his career in a major market as long as he's willing to accept a secondary role. It's a farfetched scenario, and not everyone involved would be on board -- particularly the Pistons. The major sticking point would be how to sweeten the deal for Detroit, which would only consider such an option if it would provide significant cap savings. The Pistons took themselves out of the 2010 free-agent sweepstakes by agreeing to terms with Gordon and Charlie Villanueva on the first day of the free-agent negotiating period. Those agreements are not binding until July 8, when the league-mandated moratorium is lifted and the league and players association agree on the salary cap and luxury tax for the 2009-10 season.
A person familiar with the situation said the Pistons would flat-out refuse to entertain a sign-and-trade for Gordon unless it provided significant savings. The Bulls, too, may not be eager to do business with Gordon, whose agent did not give the team a chance to match Detroit's offer.

Going through the scenarios, I'm not sure there is one that would benefit the Pistons enough for them to consider a sign and trade with the Bulls, or at least one that the Bulls would also consider. Chicago would have to give up something they may not want to part with in order to entice the Pistons to agree to any kind of deal. A first round pick or a defensive big man would get the attention of the Pistons, but seem to be a bit much for the Bulls to give up.
On the other hand, if the Bulls would take on another salary or two(Kwame Brown, Walter Sharpe) the Pistons could gain about $5 million more in cap space. That would allow the Pistons to sign a third free agent to go along with Gordon and Villanueva.
Far fetched might be a good word for Berger to use but he seems to be in touch with the pulse of the league lately, so maybe Piston fans should keep an eye on this. Stay tuned...

^ that's pretty interesting, because apparently there was a report on 97.1 citing a team source saying that a deal involving Max/Kwame for Chandler was in the words. Could be Washington being used to fill out the difference.

2 very interesting bits of news.

The bit about Washington is odd, considering we can go over the cap to sign him after we do all our deals.

That leads me to believe he must be included in some trade.

As for a sign and trade with Chicago it could work. I have no idea who they'd send us other than Gordon though.

And I'm surprised they're interested in Iverson - can't they draw a crowd in Chi-Town anymore?

Hell its possible that Joe could be after 2 bigs, one on the Chandler giveaway (although I would rather have West), and keep Rip for another if something worked out. Not a bad move at all.

Isn't anyone going to start a Deron Washington appreciation thread? ;)

What I don't get is this:

If you deal Maxiell/Kwame/Washington for Chandler who is on the bench at PF and C?

And doesn't that deal use the remaining cap space?

So then what? We deal Rip for 2 bigs? How we gonna do that?

Maybe Chicago include a big in the Gordon trade (Please be James Johnson) and someone else comes with Chandler (someone cheap)?

Then we don't deal Rip at all... still got options, Joe. Plenty of them.

Agreed that makes no sense. I am not sure if we can afford to trade Max in a 2 for 1 right now even if the front court player is better.

if you have a chance to swap two bench players for a legit starting center (and a rebounding/defensive center at that), you do it. It's much easier to find backup bigs on the cheap than a starting center.

Maybe some close to retiring retread or 2nd round pick from someone else. Again this is why I am surprised we didn't pick Blair just to have some safety at this point. Also how long is Chandler going to be out at the beginning of next season?

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but once we use up all our cap space, don't we then get the MLE to work with? We could use that to sign a backup big or two.

No, I believe that you only get the midlevel if you are over the cap at the beginning of free agency.

No, I believe that you only get the midlevel if you are over the cap at the beginning of free agency.
I thought it was "At Any Point" or something like that. I'll double check.

(Nevermind, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

No, I believe that you only get the midlevel if you are over the cap at the beginning of free agency.

Correct. It's either the MLE or the cap space, never both.

Hell its possible that Joe could be after 2 bigs, one on the Chandler giveaway (although I would rather have West), and keep Rip for another if something worked out. Not a bad move at all.

Isn't anyone going to start a Deron Washington appreciation thread? ;)

jaF0VIhFq7s

Didn't we have to renouce AI earlier this week to get our cap space? Can you even S&T an unrestricted free agent?

Didn't we have to renouce AI earlier this week to get our cap space? Can you even S&T an unrestricted free agent?

We haven't signed anyone yet Glenn.

Right, but if AI is now unrestricted, then what cap advantage comes by signing him with our cap space and trading him to Chicago as opposed to just signing Gordon with the cap space?

Thanks for your patience, this shit is a big time weak spot for me.

Right, but if AI is now unrestricted, then what cap advantage comes by signing him with our cap space and trading him to Chicago as opposed to just signing Gordon with the cap space?


Let alone helping out another team within the division.

I don't see what the incentive (for the Pistons) is either.

We get something. A pick, a piece. We get to attach a deal maybe or swap some guys....depends on what CHI will sign him for and if it's worth the bonus loot to them.

I can't imagine why it would be. Seems like an awful fit. But I'm not creating the rumor.

So would the incentive for Chicago be that they could give AI more than MLE money and also still use their MLE on someone else?

We've save a little room off the cap if we signed Gordon to a 6-year deal.

1. We'd be paying him less per season over a longer deal.

2. It allows for higher annual increases, making the first year number cheaper.

I can't imagine it'd be more than a million dollars savings for the first season, but that might be crucial in another deal.

So would the incentive for Chicago be that they could give AI more than MLE money and also still use their MLE on someone else?
yes sir.

and what Kstat said about us. I don't know if we'd want to span 6 years, but hey.

AI supposedly wants to go to Memphis.

Sign-and-trade for Hakim Warrick or Marc Gasol?

Much rather have Gasol for his size.

Does Marc have at least half the skill set Pau does?

I think Memphis would view Gasol as more valuable than more cap space, though. I could be wrong.

Much rather have Gasol for his size.

Don't come across those 7'1" fellas too often.

But does he play like a bitch?

No, he's a brute. Much different than his bro, bro.

It's not that I don't trust you, bro. I'm just going to need a second, maybe a third, opinion on this one.

Kstat?

He's a true center. More a throwback to the 80's 7-footers that played near the paint and had strong fundamentals.

Not nearly as athletic as Pau, but he's much more physical.

It's settled then. I would be in favor.

Why are Memphis gonna dump Gasol?

And the Chicago sign and trade thing seems weird to me. I don't know why they'd want Iverson, who we'd take back with Gordon or what else we'd give them.

It's just a rather odd situation since the Bulls are essentially helping Gordon and his agent get what they want.

Why do the Bulls care now?

I can see them maybe seeing Gasol expendable now that they have Thabeet.

They already dumped one Gasol.
Hopefully, they can dump another our way.
I can dream...

Why are Memphis gonna dump Gasol?


why would Memphis deal for the one and only Zach Randolph?

stranger things have happens, i really like Marc gasol

Randolph is Boozer with character issues. Memphis only really has him for one season, then he's a big fat expiring if he doesn't work. He's certainly worth the risk for them.

Mayo, Gay, and Randolph need a ton of touches for each and everyone one of them to be somewhat useful. Atleast 15 shots a game for each... This team is headed towards a weird direction. However, I'd like to get Marc Gasol, if it didn't cost much.

There is no reason for them to trade Gasol or Thabeet. Nothing wrong with having 2 good cheap centers on your roster to multiyear deals. They will probably just sit on them both. IF we somehow blew them into doing Gasol and Jaric for Kwame and the rest of our space I would shit myself.

The Nuggets traded Camby for no good reason other than to clear time for Nene.

Wasn't it partly due to payroll/tax issues, too?

Hey, maybe we can deal Rip for Nene? Re-unite Rip and Chauncey?

They open up more time for Birdman and could probably get some cheaper big to be the back-up (like Davis) with part or all of the MLE

well ,they were happy to slash the salary, but its not like camby was breaking the bank.

I believe the team payroll was rather high though - so while it wasn't all Camby's fault the team felt the need to move someone and he was the guy they dealt.

and the team made the WCF...so it mustve been camby's fault

The Nuggets traded Camby for no good reason other than to clear time for Nene.


Wasn't it partly due to payroll/tax issues, too?

You are correct, P. Convenient revisionist history on Kstat's part. It was entirely a luxury tax move, and I was hoping the Pistons would similarly be able to cash in at some point this off-season.

We did cash in - we got Charlie V aka Powder.

Due to the Bucks situation they didn't give the qualifying offer...

We got him because of tax issues.

Which is why we didnt overpay for him.

Gordon? Don't know why we overpaid but I'm hoping there is a sign and trade where we somehow get some big to help our depleted PF/C rotation

Talks continue between the Pistons and Jazz about a Carlos Boozer-Rip Hamilton trade. Hamilton didn't fit with Allen Iverson this season, and he won't fit with newly acquired Ben Gordon. In fact, Gordon has become Iverson. He has no conscience when taking shots.

http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/07/05/sports/nh1129847.txt

Let's do this.

Boozer/Rip is really making the rounds. Looks like it's going to happen.

This would be a steal on two fronts: First, Boozer is a very good big we need, and second, Boozer is an expiring contract which will allow us to go out and get another free agent next summer.

Yeah, it would be really nice if Boozer turned into Bosh next year. If not at least we wouldn't have RIP's contract.

The Tay for Outlaw/Pryz trade would complement that move nicely too.

here's the rub: even with Boozer, we really have no center or shot blocker.

If Joe can get Chandler for Kwame/ Maxiell, it would potentially give us a 50+ win roster again.

However, it would cap us out in 2010. We'd have MLE space, but that's it.

That said, we'd have Chandler's $12 mil coming off the books in 2011, as well as tayshaun's $11 mil. Even if we re-signed boozer, we'd still have max space.

Basically, I could see Joe making two quick moves and have this team set for the next 2 years.

What would it look like with Rip, Tay, Kwame, and Maxiell gone, but Pryz, Outlaw, Chandler, and Boozer here? Capwise in 2010.

assuming you cut both Boozer and Outlaw loose after this season, you're looking at about $30 million in cap space.

Of course, that is a lot of holes to fill.

Right... Those moves would be my choice, if possible. With Chandler possibly gone in 2011, you'd have a decent amount of capspace yet again.

problem being, you'd be risking an awful lot on an offseason where half the NBA will have a ton of cap room. Some teams(s) will be left standings when the music stops and all the big ticket guys are gone.

Planning for 2011 would be thinking outside the box. There's almost as many quality free agents, and they are for the most part younger (Dwight Howard, Chris Paul anyone?).

Not sure if this was posted:


"Joe Dumars and I had a long talk, and he really liked David a lot. David would have been a major target for them but he said 'Mark, if the Knicks match, I've lost Ben Gordon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2381) and everybody else I'm trying to get.' So this is a very difficult situation to operate under," Bartelstein said. "Even Toronto, they would have had to renounce all their players to get David -- and then they're not even sure they could get him."

(Comments are from Lee's agent)

if you get get Boozer for RIP, you have to do it, even if we go into the season with Kwame as the only center, none of this squad can play any D, but it would be fun to watch i guess + Boozer expiring contract gives us great flexibility for next season + offseason

Question is, do you give Dice the rest of our cap room, first?

And does he take it?

Do we need to clear more for him?

Yes, we should have 2 starting PFs and a guy we hope becomes the starting PF going into next year.

Dice can come off the bench, Charlie can play both PF and SF. Boozer is possibly a rental.

Quit yer bitching.

We should trade Tay for Amare after that. Joe Dumars would be KING! of the PFs.

i'd rather go for a young guy like Zaza, no disrespec to Dice, but he should get his ring now, no reason to resign here...also you can just keep the capspace and maybe you can get a good trade later or at the deadline with a team trying to unload some contract

Is Dice even talking to anyone else? Most of the reports that I have seen make it seem like it's almost a foregone conclusion that he'll be back.

Other teams want him, for sure, but does it Ledezma?

if he really comes back for even less than the MLE, you have to build him a statue in front of the palace, unreal loyalty

Especially with everyone else leaving the team/being traded away.

If anyone deserves to go ring chasing, it's Dice.

If anyone deserves to go ring chasing, it's Dice.

At the same time, if anyone is most unlikely to go chase said ring, it's Dice.

Yes, we should have 2 starting PFs and a guy we hope becomes the starting PF going into next year.

how many 'true' centers are around today anyway? pairing 2 PFs and putting one of them at C is the way to go. i seem to remember us winning an nba title that way.

Really. You think Ben was a PF?

At the same time, if anyone is most unlikely to go chase said ring, it's Dice.

Sometimes loyalty can be a bad thing.

Boozer Villa Prince Gordon Stuckey would be a horrible defensiv lineup, but they shoud score like at least 105 a game, should be fun to watch, if you close your eyes when they try to defend...

Boozer Villa Prince Gordon Stuckey would be a horrible defensiv lineup, but they shoud score like at least 105 a game, should be fun to watch, if you close your eyes when they try to defend...
Man, if they could only hold the opp. to 87!

how many 'true' centers are around today anyway? pairing 2 PFs and putting one of them at C is the way to go. i seem to remember us winning an nba title that way.
Between Boozer and either CV or McDyess, we wouldn't even average a block a game from our starting frontcourt. Boozer can hold his own in the post, but he's not a big weakside defender. Unless CV takes a step up and finally uses all of that athleticism on the defensive end, that doesn't seem like a very good pairing to me.

On the offensive end, he'd be a great fit next to CV. He'd command a double-team on many occasions and someone would be getting an open look. Would he get the ball enough to be happy? We're looking at Gordon, Villanueva, and Boozer all being offense-focused players. Stuckey hasn't really defined himself yet but he needs the ball in his hands on offense. Tay is the only defensive guy that doesn't need touches on offense to be happy (based on his passive offensive game) but he may still be traded.

I think CV cares more about minutes than starting vs bench. If the bench was as mismanaged as when MC ran the show I would expect him to be pissed. Anyway, I'd rather move RIP for Bosh/Amare/Kaman/Okafor that can play center full time but it may not be an option.

I'd be comfortable with a Rip for Boozer deal if they also tossed away a few players for a shot-blocking help defender like Chandler (Would Kwame and Max get that done?)

This would give the squad a nice rotation of:

Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/Afflalo
Prince and the kids (summers, daye, washington and the swede)
Boozer/CV
Chandler

Not sure if there's cash left over to bring back dyess but at the very least you can sign some league veteran stiff to fill out the roster. I'd be comfortable with an off-season that concluded with a young, 3-man big rotation of Boozer, CV and Chandler.

I would think they'd do Kwame/Max for Chandler.

It gets them 2.75 mil away from taxes this year, saves them 7 mil next year.

We'd lose 2.75 off whatever is left, which means Dice has to take the LLE or something to come back. He might do that since he'd certainly get some PT with the lack of center depth.

There are a lot of options actually for backup center if Dice says no. Not sure which (that are worth a damn) would take that little of money though:

Zaza
Moore
Wright
Smith
Petro
Rasho
Mihm
Magloire
Ely
Wilcox
Swift
Foyle
Ratliff
Swift
Frye
Booth
Voskhul (UCONN BABY!)
Collins

Maxiell is full BYC, i am still not sure even with 4 mil capspace the deal Kwame, Maxiell for Chandler can be made...

Do we have the cap space for that?

Maxiell is full BYC, i am still not sure even with 4 mil capspace the deal Kwame, Maxiell for Chandler can be made...

Max would only count 2.5 mil. With Kwame that makes 6.6 mil. With our 3-4 mil in cap space we could trade for a player making 10.5-11.5 mil basically.

Chandler makes 11.85, so someone else would have to be included (probably Sharpe).

if we sign Dice or Bass, Maxiell will stay...so if rather sign Dice because he can play center?

Max would only count 2.5 mil. With Kwame that makes 6.6 mil. With our 3-4 mil in cap space we could trade for a player making 10.5-11.5 mil basically.

Chandler makes 11.85, so someone else would have to be included (probably Sharpe).
Trading Max means his salary counts as 2.5mil for the trade, but still 5mil against the cap, correct? For example, if we traded him away for a pick, that would clear up 5 mil in cap room for us even though the team taking him would only need to have 2.5mil in cap space.

So Max only counts as 2.5mil in the trade, but as far as our team salary and the cap is concerned we'd still have 5mil coming off, plus Kwame's 4, plus our 3-4 in cap space makes 12-13mil we can take back.

Am I way off?

Also, if we trade Rip for Boozer, then trade Max/Kwame for Chandler, does that make CV our backup SF? Boozer is going to get about 30mpg at PF and maybe a few minutes at C depending on matchups. CV would be left with 18-20mpg at PF so he'd have to pick up 8-10 minutes at SF, right? He'll want around 28mpg total and you don't want to piss off the guy you just signed to a 4 year deal under the assumption that he's starting (I'd guess he came here to start).

You are correct. He counts 2.5 mil for matching salaries only. He'd still be paid/count against the cap 5 mil for his new team.

Any team taking Max/RIP on for a center would not save money. Taking Kwame and Max would save them next year (Kwame expiring) though.

Also, if we trade Rip for Boozer, then trade Max/Kwame for Chandler, does that make CV our backup SF? Boozer is going to get about 30mpg at PF and maybe a few minutes at C depending on matchups. CV would be left with 18-20mpg at PF so he'd have to pick up 8-10 minutes at SF, right? He'll want around 28mpg total and you don't want to piss off the guy you just signed to a 4 year deal under the assumption that he's starting (I'd guess he came here to start).

I'd try hard to move RIP for a center (like Okafor). I'd then attempt to trade Max. You'd get back a 2.5 mil salary that would give us another 2.5 mil in cap space to be used on Bass or Millsap.

For Max you'd have to find a team that really needs a PF, is not close to the tax level, and does not have cap space/MLE to sign one of the PF's on the market. Maybe a team that already used it's MLE.

Maybe move him to SA for Finley. They'd get some PF depth and we'd get some more cap space.

I'd try hard to move RIP for a center (like Okafor). I'd then attempt to trade Max. You'd get back a 2.5 mil salary that would give us another 2.5 mil in cap space to be used on Bass or Millsap.

For Max you'd have to find a team that really needs a PF, is not close to the tax level, and does not have cap space/MLE to sign one of the PF's on the market. Maybe a team that already used it's MLE.

Maybe move him to SA for Finley. They'd get some PF depth and we'd get some more cap space.

They just drafted a Max clone.

when you trade Max you have to take back at least 5 mil, there goes your capspace...you cant trade a BYC player without capspace or a 3rd teams with caspapce has to be involved...so its either trade Max and take back more salary with a guy whos not BYC or sign a FA, not both

when you trade Max you have to take back at least 5 mil, there goes your capspace...you cant trade a BYC player without capspace or a 3rd teams with caspapce has to be involved...so its either trade Max and take back more salary with a guy whos not BYC or sign a FA, not both
How do you figure?

If Max is BYC, that means his trade value is either his old salary or 1/2 of his new salary, whichever is greater. That would be 1/2 of 5 mil = 2.5 mil.

The trade must be within %125 of that 2.5 mil. You can't take back 5 mil in salaries unless you have the cap space to do so (which we do, but don't have to).

The only exception is the poison pill effect (in which case his full salary would count), but that does not apply because PP is only during the time between when the extension is signed and it goes into effect. His new salary is already in effect as of July 1.

I guess there is one other exception. If both players are BYC in the trade, then they both count as their full salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q73

yeah i was talking about the guy we will get back, he won't be BYC probably

example:
75. Whenever I read about prospective trades involving base year players, they say a third team must get involved. Why? Can't a base year player be traded in a two-team trade?

There's no specific rule that prohibits trading base year players in a two-team deal. But the way the numbers work, it's not always possible unless one of the teams dumps additional salary onto a third team.

As an example, let's say Player A plays for Washington. He earned $3 million last season and re-signed as a free agent for $10 million. That makes him a base year player whose BYC value is $5 million (see question number 73). Player B plays for Seattle and also earns $10 million, but is not a base year player. Both Seattle and Washington are over the salary cap.

Now suppose Seattle and Washington want to trade Player A and Player B for each other. Seattle can take back 125% plus $100,000 of Player B's $10 million salary, or $12.6 million. Player A's $10 million salary easily fits within that limit. But Washington can only take back as much as 125% plus $100,000 of Player A's $5 million BYC value, or $6.35 million. Player B's $10 million salary is too high.

If the two teams want to complete this trade, then Washington must rid themselves of an additional $2.92 million in salary (because Washington's total outgoing amount would then be $7.92 million, and 125% plus $100,000 of $7.92 million is $10 million, which is the amount of incoming salary Washington is trying to absorb in this example). Let's say that Player C plays for Washington, is not a base year player, and earns $3 million. What happens if they want to trade Player A plus Player C for Player B? Player A plus Player C total $13 million, which is greater than Seattle's $12.6 million maximum. So Washington can't give the additional $2.92 million to Seattle.
This is where a third team gets involved. This team must be far enough under the cap, or have a Traded Player exception (see question number 69) to absorb the additional $2.92 million in salary.

We'd be Washington in that scenario. Chris is saying we trade Max (makes 5 but counts as 2.5 in a trade) for someone making 2.5. We'd be taking back a salary equal to Max's trade value. That gives us an extra 2.5 in cap space and the other team takes on an extra 2.5 in salary for the year, but the trade still works because of BYC.

Yeah, that rule doesn't apply if we have the cap space to cover the deal. No third team is needed. It also only talks about players with matching salaries (in which case their trade value doesn't equal). In this case I'm talking about a 2.5 mil player for Max.

We can deal max for a player making up to 6.5 mil (2.5 plus the 4 mil in cap space).

We can also trade him for a player making 2.5 mil, after which we end up getting 2.5 mil in cap space. That team would have to be willing to increase their payroll 2.5 mil after the trade though.

Can we trade someone the remainder of Oberto's salary we are on the hook for?

Can we trade someone the remainder of Oberto's salary we are on the hook for?


No. Can't trade contracts not attached to a player.

I think we're going to end up seeing some random sign-and-trade with one of our own free agents. Something silly like Drew Gooden from SA for McDyess or something.

McDyess isn't restricted. I don't believe we can S&T him. We can't even go over the cap to sign him. We renounced AI and Wallace, so we have no one to sign and trade away.

a player doesn't have to be a RFA to do a sign and trade. it works with URFA too. the player 'signing' and being traded obviously has to be willing though...

McDyess isn't restricted. I don't believe we can S&T him. We can't even go over the cap to sign him. We renounced AI and Wallace, so we have no one to sign and trade away.

Oh yeah, I'm pretty slow lately.

a player doesn't have to be a RFA to do a sign and trade. it works with URFA too. the player 'signing' and being traded obviously has to be willing though...
After you sign someone, don't you have to wait a certain amount of time before they can be traded? Or is this one of those deals where you have a day to trade them and then you have to wait?

^ the latter.

@RicBucher (from last night)

Told this a.m. by a Bulls source that the Boozer deal wasn't happening. It's been discussed. A Por/Jazz/Det deal was, too.

The Warriors are after Boozer. But all they have to offer are big, long contracts. Utah wants financial relief, not more pain.

@RicBucher (from last night)

Told this a.m. by a Bulls source that the Boozer deal wasn't happening. It's been discussed. A Por/Jazz/Det deal was, too.

The Warriors are after Boozer. But all they have to offer are big, long contracts. Utah wants financial relief, not more pain.

The deal with Golden State is that while they have all those contracts, it's tough to say which players they would be willing to part with.

Ellis? probably not
Beidrins? a ton of teams would happily take him, but I doubt GS would deal him
Maggette or Jackson? probably, but which one or both?
What smaller contracts? would they part with Wright, Randolph, Turiaf?

They have so many contracts that are in the $7-11 per year range. It might actually be easier to work out a deal if they had a couple bigger contracts, but they would have to give up half their team to make most deals work. Utah would jump at the chance if they could deal, say, Kirilenko as well and maybe get a Tayshawn back. That would be cap relief. But I wouldn't want Kirilenko in Det, I would want Maggette and Turiaf.

I read some Rip for Dampier speculation, but it was only FanHouse and some other place not worth linking to.

Dumpier might be good in a contract year, sorta like he was when he last got his big fat contract.

Of course, the fact that I subconsciously type his name as Dumpier means my gut feeling is that he will suck no matter what.

What? Dampier?

You're gonna send me over the edge here GD.

Ain't no freakin' way that deal should go down.

NONE!

Dampier for Rip? Heck no. We can do better.

The Warriors would be willing to move Biedrins in the right deal, and they showed it when they were trying to get Amare. They just weren't willing to move Curry.


I'd much rather have Biedrins than Boozer. He's 23 years old. He's 7' 240lbs. In 30mpg last year he shot 58%, grabbed 11 boards (3.6 offensive), had 2 assits, a steal, and 1.5 blocks. His 2 big problems are that he tends to foul a lot and he's piss-poor at free throws. He lives in the post on offense and plays off the ball (we already have 3 guys who want/need the ball).

Just like Okafor, he's exactly what I want in our C. He hits the boards extremely hard, he doesn't command the ball on offense where he lives in the post and just takes what comes to him, and he's a great post- and weakside-defender who swats some shots. If we got one of those 2, I'd call this offseason a success.

I wish ESPN had the trade machine up and running. It's still got everything from last season.

Utah wants to clear cap space, so I don't know what they'd be willing to do. How highly do they think of C.J. Miles? He's making 3.7 million over the next 3 years and they have Brewer who's better and cheaper. They could move Brewer to the 3 with Rip at the 2. They have plenty of depth at C but they'll need a backup PF as well.

Rip (11.6), Wright (2.7) to Utah
Boozer (12.3) goes to GS
Biedrins (9), C.J. Miles (3.7), Fesenko (.9) or Koufos (1.2) to Detroit

Utah gets an upgrade at on the wing with Brewer moving to SF and Rip at SG. They get a good young backup big in Wright. They save $2.5-3mil on the cap, which is $5-6mil after you count luxury tax.

Detroit gets an upgrade at C with Biedrins. C.J. Miles can backup SG and SF while our young guys develop, or could potentially start at SF if we moved Tay Fesenko/Koufos becomes a project C or the main backup if we move Kwame. Mainly they save some tax dollars for Utah.

Golden State gets Boozer, who they're believed to be targeting and only give up Biedrins and Wright, much less than they'd have given up for Amare.

Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/Miles/AA
Tay/Miles/rooks
Villanueva/Max/rooks
Biedrins/Kwame/Fesenko

That's pretty solid. I'd be happy. Tay would have a true backup and we'd have some serious youth. Tay would be our only player over 26, I believe. Plus, it all fits within the 125% rule, so it doesn't matter whether we have cap space or not. We can sign someone or make a trade with what space we have left then make this trade.

I think it would still work if we took Wright and Utah kept Miles, which I'd rather do, but would Utah do that? They have Brewer and Miles who can both play SG/SF, and Korver as the backup SF, and then they get Rip? I suppose they could move Korver for a solid piece since he's a $5m expiring contract that can shoot.

Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/AA
Tay/rooks
Villanueva/Wright/Max/rooks
Biedrins/Kwame/Fesenko

Deal Kwame for a backup for Tay if you don't think Villanueva or the rooks fit the bill this season. Hell, make the Jazz an offer they can't refuse and include Kwame to them and Korver to us. Saves them another 1.2 on the cap (2.4 after luxury tax).

I went off on a tangent. Here are the two ideas simplified:

1-
Pistons get Biedrins, Miles, Fesenko (or Koufos)
Utah gets Rip, Wright
GS gets Boozer

2-
Pistons get Biedrins, Wright, Korver, Fesenko (or Koufos)
Utah gets Rip, Kwame
GS gets Boozer

Makes sense for Utah and GS on both accounts because GS gets Boozer and Utah saves around $6m after the luxury tax and resigns Millsap.

We get a perfect fit at C and some young talent. I prefer #2.

There, I saved you some pointless reading.

I used the trade checker at TOS and ran this trade:

GS gives:
Biedrins and Turiaf
GS gets:
Boozer

Utah gives:
Boozer
Utah gets:
Rip

Det gives:
Rip
Det gets:
Biedrins and Turiaf

It's obvious why Utah and Detroit would go for that deal, but GS would have to really want Boozer to do it.

I would be ecstatic with that trade. It would give Det the frontcourt upgrade they've needed instantly and solve the problem with the minutes logjam at the guard spot.

By the way, that deal only saves UT $1 million this year, but that's $2 million when you figure the luxury tax.

Not only that, but it allows them to run out a lineup of:
D. Williams
Rip
Kirilenko
Millsap
Okur

That's a strong lineup. Williams and Rip together would make Rip piss himself in joy and opposing coaches do the same in agony.

Again though, GS would basically have to play Boozer at C with Wright and/or Maggette at PF. That makes them very thin there, but maybe they could swing another deal to pick up someone else. It's all a matter of how dumb Larry Riley is.

Wow, Jethro in the NBA forum.

Jeth, they actually started Stephen Jackson at PF for 59 games until he was injured. Anthony Randolph started at PF after that and Maggette got a few starts there.

They would have zero depth at C though. It would be Boozer and no one. that's why I don't think they include Turiaf. He's one of their team captains and leaders, plus he was 3rd in the NBA in blocks last year despite only playing 22mpg. Wouldn't they give up two lesser players first? Like Wright and Law.

The addition of Curry makes Law expendable. Ellis is their PG, they have Speedy Claxton, Curry can handle the point, they have Morrow, Bellinelli, and Azubuiki all playing SG. That guard spot is pretty loaded right now and Law could be on the outside looking in. Easy salary to include.

They have a ton of forwards with Jackson, Randolph (who emerged late in the year), Maggette, and the ability of their SGs to play SF in their small-ball lineup

Probably makes that trade a bit easier than the one I cooked up.


GS gives:
Biedrins, Wright, and Law
GS gets:
Boozer

Utah gives:
Boozer
Utah gets:
Rip

Det gives:
Rip
Det gets:
Biedrins, Wright, and Law



GS had 47 different starting lineups last year.....

Do they have to wait a certain amount of time to trade Law? They just got him from ATL via the Crawford trade.

As for Turiaf being one of the top shot blockers, why do you think I covet him? Together they bring exactly what Det needs. Apart, they cure only part of the problem. But I agree that GS wouldn't part with both.

Didn't Azubiuki play SF? All I know is GS has 438 forwards. That's almost as many as Joe drafted this year. Apparently 6'10" 195 SF's are a dime a dozen now.


And yes, Glan, I need a reprieve from a handful of idiots in another forum so I'm browsing. The NBA forum moves at a faster pace than I prefer, but it's the topic that got me into message boards in the first place (damnit).

I wish ESPN had the trade machine up and running. It's still got everything from last season.

i was on there yesterday and it at least had 'turned the clock' over to the new nba year. IOW, THIS year's salaries were up instead of last years. only thing missing was the new players added to each roster.

afflalo & sharpe to denver.....? maybe:

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/report_arron_afflalo_could_be.html

i like afflalo just OK. but don't we need him for depth purposes at SG? if we trade him then i guess that officially means there's ZERO chance we trade rip. which is a mistake IMO. but that's another story entirely....

hate that we lost out on bass. love that kid. like big baby a lot though. i'd still be aiming high for someone like chandler though.

OAN- i read somewhere that we're not that interested in boozer because we like the pairing of charlie V and prince. if that's true, it means prince is off the table too.

i'm not saying we should be giving rip and prince away. but i personally think it's a mistake not to try actively to trade these guys. complete the makeover and let's do it right. we have a bunch of SFs anyway and we already know prince has maxed out his abilities.

I suppose he couldn't be traded in a multiplayer deal until after a certain date. I don't know how high on Azubuiki they are. He's a bit undersized as a SF, but he can play it in Nellieball. He started 51 games and played 32 minutes per last year. He shoots 45% from downtown. I think they want to hold onto him.

If the Warriors are getting Boozer, 12.4m, thenby the 125% rule they only need to move 9.92m in salary. Biedrins is 9m. They could chose one of Wright(2.7m), Randolph(1.8m) or Belinelli(1.5m) to include. That's all they'd have to give up.

Would you still make that trade? We give up Rip and get back Biedrins and another young player. I'd do it.

This is not a plan.

We could still trade Rip, but we'd just have to get another guard back in the trade.

Rip for a C + G

Either that or Deron Washington is really the shit.

Those Mlive reader comments are something else.

We could still trade Rip, but we'd just have to get another guard back in the trade.

Rip for a C + G

i realize that's possible. it's just not easy to find that sort of combination that works under the cap. if we deal with new orleans, i guess we could go for chandler and posey (plays SF but could certainly play backup SG) for rip and j-max.

but i'm not sure that deal would satisfy either team. it's tough to find a trade that works under the cap AND gives us what we need.

Either that or Deron Washington is really the shit.

i'd love to believe that but i'm not holding my breath. a possible rotation player with nice future development still to come? sure. but...

More likely he's Alex Acker.

he's about 50 times as athletic as alex acker...

but not near as good a shooter. at least, not last time i checked. he supposedly improved his J overseas, so i'm very curious to see this kid.

i love him as a project and hope he can be a diamond in the rough. but i'm not holding my breath. he could just as easily be the next lou roe.

Davis is another guy that's just not tall enough to be the answer. Yes, his playoff scoring was nice, but he still wasn't rebounding.

The way this team is coming together, they better run down the court to get shots off, because without any rebounds they'll be one and back on every trip and might stay a while on the defensive end.

but not near as good a shooter. at least, not last time i checked. he supposedly improved his J overseas, so i'm very curious to see this kid.


Agreed, which makes it look even dumber to compare him to acker...

Again, it would be retarded to trade AA. He's the only good defensive guard that we have left.

we have a bunch of SFs anyway and we already know prince has maxed out his abilities.
So we're giving up Prince because we have 3 untested rookies that haven't even made the team yet?
Daye is a project, he's not expected to contribute much, if at all, this season.
Jarebko is supposedly going to be a PF for us. Don't remember where I read that, but I posted it a while back. Joe said after the draft that they think he's going to develop into more of a PF than SF.
That leaves Summers, who could actually potentially give Prince a backup if he's as NBA ready as people think.
1 backup and a project do not push a solid starter out the door. Unless we're bringing in another SF, we're not trading Prince.

Also, I like that he's maxed out his abilities and its a terrible thing. Just because a guy doesn't have any much more untapped potential doesn't mean he's useless. He's plays fantastic defense and solid offense. He doesn't take over the game but he hits the open shot and does exactly what he's been asked in our offensive gameplan, and he can show flashes of brilliant offense at times.

Since his sophomore year he's averaged over 35mpg while going deep into the playoffs each year and playing on Team USA. He's never had a real backup.

On second thought, you're right. We should probably get rid of a guy that plays lockdown D on most occasions while putting up 14ppg, 6rpg, 3apg on 45%fg and 40%3pt. Oh yeah, and he's only started nearly 900 straight games.

Not if they think Washington can replace afflalo and his contract can allow them to get another decent big.

Still think Sean May is worth a look. The C's aren't going to let us get big baby for $3 mil a season.

Wilcox would also be a more attainable player, plus he can play some center.

All this is window dressing though. We need a shot blocker or this team is pretty incomplete.

HW, this is what you were referring to with the Prince/Villanueva thing I assume

The Detroit Pistons, meanwhile, continue to be widely mentioned as a trade suitor for Boozer, but sources with knowledge of Detroit's thinking insisted again Friday that the Pistons will not join the trade bidding for the Team USA power forward because they think Tayshaun Prince and newly signed Charlie Villanueva will complement each other better than Boozer and Villanueva would.
From the ESPN article glenn posted in the non-pistons thread.

That's only even possibly true i they can get tyson chandler or a similarly-gifted rebounder/shot blocker.

Still think Sean May is worth a look. The C's aren't going to let us get big baby for $3 mil a season.
Why? They have Perkins, Sheed, and Garnett. Those 3 will eat up the majority of the frontcourt minutes. Why would they want to spend another $3mil for a guy that's going to get 10 minutes a game? I feel like Sheed pretty much replaced him.

because it keeps us from getting a little better. If it was GSW signing him, i don't think they'd care.

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/07/report_arron_afflalo_could_be.html

if we really gonna dump Afflalo and NOT somehow get a quality starting 5 (trade?) and go into the season with RIP & Gordon i am losing my faith in Joe D...i'd rather have Afflalo for 1 mil $ at BACKUP SG than Gordon for 11 mil $

Agreed, which makes it look even dumber to compare him to acker...

The comparison was in terms of value/possible future contributions only, not style of play or abilities.

Relax.

Maybe he'll be the next Ronald Dupree!!!

because it keeps us from getting a little better. If it was GSW signing him, i don't think they'd care.

Talk about stupid. The Celtics aren't going to spend $6m on Big Baby ($3m salary, $3m in tax) because they are concerned about the Pistons getting him.

That made my day, thanks.

Speaking of the Celtics, whatever happened to Bill Walker? I remember when everyone wanted him, then we passed on him for D.J. White, then traded White and moved into Rd 2, passed on him again for Sharpe (we needed a backup SF and we passed on him for Walter Sharpe?!) then AGAIN for Trent Plaisted.

So we're giving up Prince because we have 3 untested rookies that haven't even made the team yet?
Daye is a project, he's not expected to contribute much, if at all, this season.
Jarebko is supposedly going to be a PF for us. Don't remember where I read that, but I posted it a while back. Joe said after the draft that they think he's going to develop into more of a PF than SF.
That leaves Summers, who could actually potentially give Prince a backup if he's as NBA ready as people think.
1 backup and a project do not push a solid starter out the door. Unless we're bringing in another SF, we're not trading Prince.

Also, I like that he's maxed out his abilities and its a terrible thing. Just because a guy doesn't have any much more untapped potential doesn't mean he's useless. He's plays fantastic defense and solid offense. He doesn't take over the game but he hits the open shot and does exactly what he's been asked in our offensive gameplan, and he can show flashes of brilliant offense at times.

Since his sophomore year he's averaged over 35mpg while going deep into the playoffs each year and playing on Team USA. He's never had a real backup.

On second thought, you're right. We should probably get rid of a guy that plays lockdown D on most occasions while putting up 14ppg, 6rpg, 3apg on 45%fg and 40%3pt. Oh yeah, and he's only started nearly 900 straight games.

lol- take a breath Z. read my posts. i did not say we should dump him and that he's a bad player or whatever. but if you think he's brilliant on D you clearly are going more on past reputation and not what he's done the last 2 years. he's a good defender but he's hardly a lock down defender. he is far too often now being either outmuscled or outathleted. (yes, that is now a word i made up) actually i would downgrade his defensive skills even more now in fact, but for arguments sake i'll concede the point and allow that he's a 'good' defender.

prince can still bother people defensively but i honestly believe someone like summers could soon be at least as good a defender. prince is not a standout guy in that department anymore IMO.

and yes- he is an efficient player with decent numbers. but he's being paid as if he was a much better player. so his salary does not fit into our salary structure moving forward IMO. we need to get more athletic and get guys who can score in a greater variety of ways. no doubt, prince can still fit in anywhere and play well. but for $11 mil a year i don't think it's good value moving forward.

is prince REALLY worth more than 1/5 of our salary cap? no way on earth. that is why i favor trying to move him. i have a lot of love for him and greatly respect his game and what he's done. but this is a business and i want what is best for us longterm, regardless of whether that means moving him or not. my only real loyalty is to the team.

That quote saying the Pistons like the Prince/Villa combo more than Villa/Boozer almost makes it sound like we're going smallball. We have Stuckey at PG, Gordon at SG, Hamilton at SF (ugh), Prince at PF (UGH) and Villanueva at C (just kill me now if we do this). I don't think we'd be that stupid, but for a split second when I read the quote, I got nervous.

Good stuff, HW.

Me likes critical thinking.

not necessarily Z; prince primarily plays SF and charlie V primarily plays PF.

I think if we got Prince some rest, got him down around 30 mpg, his defense would step back up a notch. I'll agree that it hasn't been as great the last year or two, but he's still above-average. You give a guy the hardest matchup on a nightly basis and he's not going to look like a star, but he's going to get the job done. Now that I think about it, he hasn't had the safety net behind him that he used to. Two years ago we lost Ben and that's when his D dropped. If you bring in someone that can guard the paint, I think he gets back to his stellar defensive ways. Maybe not DPOY style D, but someone that's recognized for his defensive prowess.

Too much thinking. Must leave work.

not necessarily Z; prince primarily plays SF and charlie V primarily plays PF.
That's why it was a split second fear. I'd stop watching if they did that, it wouldn't even be enjoyable.

Why? They have Perkins, Sheed, and Garnett. Those 3 will eat up the majority of the frontcourt minutes. Why would they want to spend another $3mil for a guy that's going to get 10 minutes a game? I feel like Sheed pretty much replaced him.

Not to mention Powe,

again though- prince is most definitely not worth what he's being paid. we're not winning a title with him in the next 2 years. so why not find a way to stockpile more young assets who COULD be part of that future by moving him?

not to mention that the salary cap is shrinking and could do so again next year. so you REALLY have to think about your team's salary structure and how you want to allocate that money. spending the amount we're spending on prince is not good value for money/cap space IMO.

That's only even possibly true i they can get tyson chandler or a similarly-gifted rebounder/shot blocker.

That's what makes it so tough to give up the idea of Okafor. He's a walking double-double who's a top-15 shot blocker.

I just can't figure out a package they would go for. I don't know how they feel about the contracts of Diop, Radmonavic, or Nazr, but would they trade Okafor with one of them for Rip and Kwame? It would be amazing if they would take Rip and Max for Okafor and Bell, but that's not likely to happen. For all I care they can have a handful of draft picks too. Rip would be nice for them since he has played for LB, with MJ, and would make a nice mentor for Gerald Henderson.

they badly need a shooting guard. I'd think they would want rip.

the real question is whether they have a PA announcer capable of doing rip's introduction properly. i'd have to think that would play a factor in any potential trade for him.

So when the Blazers get the Millsap offer sheet signed today, the Jazz have a week to trade Boozer, eh?

Hopefully we can buy low.

It's not that risky at this point, IMO, if he sucks or gets injured, let him walk next year.

:stein:


The Pistons have been widely mentioned as a trade suitor for Boozer, but it remains to be seen if they will formally enter the bidding. Sources with knowledge of Detroit's thinking insisted again Friday that the Pistons were not interested in trading for Boozer, largely because they think Tayshaun Prince and the newly signed Charlie Villanueva will complement each other better than Boozer and Villanueva would, especially on defense. Yet it remains possible that Pistons' inability to sign Orlando-bound Brandon Bass will lead them to re-consider.

The revamped Pistons have no dependable low-post scorer and are seeking to add size to their front line, with Boozer's expiring contract -- as it would in Chicago, New York or Miami -- affording them the added bonus of potentially creating salary-cap space again next summer after Detroit had the most spending money in the league this summer.

So when the Blazers get the Millsap offer sheet signed today, the Jazz have a week to trade Boozer, eh?

Hopefully we can buy low.

It's not that risky at this point, IMO, if he sucks or gets injured, let him walk next year.

And how do you construct a deal that Utah wanna do?

IF they keep Boozer they lose Millsap and next off-season they likely lose Boozer too.

But they don't wanna trade Boozer for contracts within the 125% range and then match on Millsap cause the taxes would be huge.

The ideal trade would be for us to send Maxiell and Kwame to a team with cap space and/or a big trade exception (OKC or ORL), we get Boozer and Utah take back nothing.

Then Utah can match on Millsap AND avoid luxury taxes

For us we give up Kwame and Maxiell to net Boozer.

For the team using their cap space/trade exception they have to believe that Maxiell has value or the deal doesn't happen.

I'm guessing Utah would be willing to give up a future 1st rounder. Maybe we would be willing to do that, too?

I proposed that deal (Kwame/Max to OKC, Boozer to DET, UTA get nothing) in the trade forum.

It seems to be the only thing that makes sense for all teams, though OKC would probably want those picks included for helping out 2 other teams.

BTW, is anyone seriously worried that we didn't have a deal already locked in for a big man prior to July 8th?

While it's true we're all armchair GM's it didn't take a genius to work out that after the season ended we needed big men.

After the Draft it was obvious we needed bigs.

After the Amir trade it was even more obvious.

Yet we spent a huge chunk of our precious cap space on a combo guard!

I understand why we signed him. I understand why Joe wants a 3 guard rotation. I don't understand spending all that money on our backcourt when our starting C is Kwame Brown.

The signing of Villaneuva is a good thing. He can hit jumpers, is super young and is capable of rebounding. He also seems like the kind of guy that is gonna keep working cause he actually improved his game while playing for crappy teams. But he's not a defensive presence. Ideally he'd play with someone like Tyson Chandler or Joel Pryzbilla - a shot blocker who can board.

I don't mind that we're gonna be a perimeter team. Quality low post scorers are hard to find. And the guys that are/were available have issues (Boozer/Randolph). So don't sign or trade for them. Get Powder.

But don't spend the rest of the money on a guard. We've got Bynum and AA at those spots and both earned the chance to comeback and continue their development.

Spend that money on a big man. David Lee would not have been ideal but at least he rebounds and hustles. Same with Millsap. Sign The Birdman, even if you overpay at least you overpaid for a bigman with the skills we need. Sign Gortat to a deal starting above the MLE. At least he'd get to start and he could be useful.

Joe had options and every single day another option goes off the board.

The latest rumour? Dumping AA and Sharpe for nothing so we gain less than $2 mil more in cap space.

Say It Ain't So, Joe - say it ain't so.

We had enough money, draft picks and assets to trade before July 1st.

We had 4 picks in the last Draft, Kwame and Amir about to be expiring deals and our millions and millions in cap room.

Why on Earth are we dealing a good young player, who worked his butt off last season for NOTHING!

So Joe can have almost $5 mil in space to spend? Dude, you had $17 freakin' million to spend and that was plenty.

Obviously with me trying not to swear and smoke I'm losing it. Patience might be a virtue but forget that.

Get something done Joe. Send Kwame, Max and Washington to NO for Chandler. Send Rip/Sharpe to Philly for Brand. Send Prince to Portland for Outlaw and Pryzbilla

C: Chandler/Pryzbilla/Brand
F: Brand/Villa/Summers or Jonas maybe
F: Outlaw/Daye/Summers/Jonas
G: Gordon/AA
G: Stuckey/Bynum

Just do something Joe.

I'm right there with you, P

It's funny, before all of the moves started happening, I remember feeling a bit overwhelmed when thinking about all of the options that Joe had (as KING) but almost every scenario had him landing a bigtime post presence, and now here we are.

I also remember thinking (and posting) that no matter what he did this summer, that many of us would be disappointed.

He's still got time to fix the roster imbalance,of course,
But the options seem to be dwindling by the day.

I think a lot of us liked to think that he had this master plan that he was just waiting to unveil, but as each day passes,
It's starting to look more and more like he is winging it.

I'm sure that's not really the case,
But that's how it seems.

I'm right there with you, P

It's funny, before all of the moves started happening, I remember feeling a bit overwhelmed when thinking about all of the options that Joe had (as KING) but almost every scenario had him landing a bigtime post presence, and now here we are.

I also remember thinking (and posting) that no matter what he did this summer, that many of us would be disappointed.


He's still got time to fix the roster imbalance,of course,
But the options seem to be dwindling by the day.


I don't think I had high hopes.

I don't think my ideas were too unrealistic.

I knew he wanted Gordon. I'm sure Gordon's agent and Gordon himself knew Joe wanted him. So why the massive contract? It killed any chance we had of keeping Dice or signing Bass or signing any reasonable big man.

The Villa signing was a good move and I think the money is about right. But Joe blew it on Gordon. At least $5 mil too much.



I think a lot of us liked to think that he had this master plan that he was just waiting to unveil, but as each day passes,
It's starting to look more and more like he is winging it.

I'm sure that's not really the case,
But that's how it seems.

Dude, the way it looks from over here in Oz is that Joe had no plan to begin with outside of Gordon and Villa as a tag team. He had no idea who he was gonna get to play C, what money he'd have left or gave any thought to potential trades.

Our options are being taken off the table by other, more patient and cap savvy teams while Joe twists in the wind.

And he had just as much time, if not more time than us everyday regular folk to plan for this. He was preparing for this last November.

Right now that Kwame/Max/Washington for Chandler deal is looking sweet, even though we'd be left with no back-up bigs. Chandler can play 36 mins every night for 82 games + playoffs, right?

For crying out loud Joe!

He better fix it or I figure to go micknugget in here soon.

With as desperate as the team is for some size, I'm not sure why people still hate Drew Gooden.

Right now that Kwame/Max/Washington for Chandler deal is looking sweet, even though we'd be left with no back-up bigs. Chandler can play 36 mins every night for 82 games + playoffs, right?
First, they want to cut salary, so I don't know why we'd sign Washington then include him in this trade? We could just not sign him and save them even more money.

i've read at a Phoenix forum that they said Chandler is done, and never will be fully heahlty again...the trade rumored was Big Ben for Chandler and Phoenix medical staff checked out Chandler and then said he is done - i believe this too, i any other case OKC wouldnt have canceld the trade they had agreed to with NOH

here are some quotes:

The Suns' Chandler deal is definitely in Suns hands. They can have Chandler anytime they want as Hornets really want Ben Wallace's contract and know Chandler is shot up.

Hornets feel Armstrong's workouts are progressing so well that he is making Chandler look like an old man because he does not have lateral explosiveness he once did.

Suns will NOT make the deal whatsoever. After thought and evaluation, medical personnel believe Chandler is indeed damaged goods. As mentioned above, doesn't seem to have the same lateral/medial explosiveness and looks pretty much shot. Don't expect him to be any kind of force and will probably be a backup center for the Hornets if this keeps up.

Not only is the trade not going to happen, but if it did Suns would be slower and less explosive up front. Tyson is not worth the long commitment and Steve Kerr knows exactly what he would get into if he did such terrible deal.

big deal. He's got a whole 1 more year remaining on his contract than Big ben.

I'll buy into the validity of chandler's injuries, but to say its some great financial genius to keep ben wallace's massive 1-year contract instead of taking on chandler's slightly less massive 2-year contract is stupid.

Afflalo for Kleiza?

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/07/the_cleveland_cavaliers_and_th.html

Nice talent and he can play the 4, but still doesn't solve the center issues.

At least it would take the sting out of losing Brandon Bass.


2. Linas Kleiza: He's a bit more stout and rugged than Barnes and is more of a power forward, where Barnes is closer to a small forward. But he's younger and has a higher ceiling. There are some indications he could be headed to the Pistons in a sign-and-trade, however.

Precursor to a Tay deal 4 a center?

Not necessarily. It could just as easily mean Maxiell is getting dealt, though his BYC status makes that difficult.

Kleiza is a natural 3 in the body of a 4. You can really play him at either spot.

i like kleiza. not sure if this rumor is true though.

but IMO he's definitely going to play more PF than SF. in fact almost exclusively. he isn't a traditional PF but he is a halfway decent defender and rebounder. he's a scrappy player and fits the need for more perimeter shooting. not to mention he's not even 25 yet so he's got more upside.

would be a real nice role player for us if we could get him.

Oh boy, yet another quasi-big who can't rebound.

My kingdom for a credible C... a rebounder somewhere.

he's not even 25

FYP

There is no reason why we need seperate stickied threads for "Pistons trades" and "Pistons free agency" They are all so intertwined nowadays.

Anyways, Tyson Chandler fits all of our needs and was at least availalbe. What happened to him nobody's talking about trading for him anymore.

because the fact nobody wants him seems to suggest he can't play anymore.

Lots of injury questions about Chandler.

In addition to the failed OKC physical, there are rumors that PHX had a deal for him recently and he failed that too.

The Pistons’ three rookie draftees keep giving Joe Dumars reasons to fend off any panicked moves to overpay for a veteran big man in free agency with their smorgasbord of skills for new coach John Kuester to tap as the need arises.

because our 3 rookie SF are so nice, we don't need a veteran bigman =?

Just remember that Keith predicted that Amir would end up with a max contract someday.

They are gonna overhype these kids again.

Just remember that Keith predicted that Amir would end up with a max contract someday.

He could still be right.

:-|

Hey, just saying that theoretically he isn't wrong until Amir retires.

Lamar Odom

His agent has been desperately trying to find a sign-and-trade around the league, but there’s little there but the Lakers’ offer of $7 million per season. Odom had a terrific playoffs and Finals on L.A’s championship run, but he has few options to make the Lakers raise their offer. Why has Portland so far sat it out with him? It still makes no sense.

NBA free agency's winners and losers - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnFX9gYgM2Xl.QwXO9XQuva8vLYF?slug=aw-winnerslosers071109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

...what does that have to do with the Pistons?

He's a douche, let it go.

Besides, the latest rumor is that the Lakers bumped their Odom offer to $8+ million/year. I never really thought that Odom was on the table, not for Portland. I bet they smell the weed on Odom and think "second coming of the Jailblazers".

The Pistons’ three rookie draftees keep giving Joe Dumars reasons to fend off any panicked moves to overpay for a veteran big man in free agency with their smorgasbord of skills for new coach John Kuester to tap as the need arises.

You're worried about overpaying now?

What do we have to spend? $3 mil?

Morons!

At this stage the only way I can get through each post is by telling myself that Joe is gonna give Maxiell this ONE season to show the world he's worthy - otherwise the train known as the Detroit Pistons is gonna drop him off at the next station.

Kwame? Dude gets ONE last shot at redemption. He kind of started down that road last season during the clusterfuck that was the Curry Error so maybe he can actually improve under Col. Que?

Small ball here we come:

C: Kwame 24 mins/Maxiell 24 mins
F: Powder 30/Summers + Jonas 18
F: Prince 30/Rip 12/Daye 6 (spends most of season in NBDL)
G: Rip 18/Gordon 30
G: Stuckey 30/Bynum 30

We'll probably hold onto Washington and AA cause you can never have enough swingmen. And by keeping them around we can all play the board game called Chris Bosh - "Deal At The Deadline" for one last season.

Hey, we can also play the lottery!