Post em if you got em

Use the "Fun with Trade Ideas" forum if you just want to make some fake trades up (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80), I'm thinking that this thread is more for legit rumors.

Here's the Mustache of Disdain's best effort:

:mccosky:


Would Dumars call his buddy Michael Jordan in Charlotte and try to work a deal for Jason Richardson, who is going to, most likely, chafe under the constraints of Larry Brown's offense? Would Dumars call and offer Wallace and others in exchange for Richardson and Emeka Okafor?

If Joe acquires Richardson, then Hamilton has to go too, either in the same deal or another different deal, IMO.

Which wouldn't be all that surprising with that opt-out cloud hanging over Rip.

Does Rip+Sheed=JRich+Okafor

What evil lurks in the heart of an NBA GM?

Out of all the starters, I think Rip would be the one who should stay here the most. I would rather see Chauncey and Sheed go, even though it will suck to lose any starter.

In a vacuum, I'd like Rip to stay too, but I just don't know if Joe is willing to risk losing him for nothing next summer.

Have none of you seen that "Spotlight" feature FSN did on Chauncey? Dumars said he told Billups he wants him to be a Piston for the rest of his career.

In a vacuum, I'd like Rip to stay too, but I just don't know if Joe is willing to risk losing him for nothing next summer.

I don't think he'd leave if Joe was savvy enough to move Sheed (with someone) and bring in a good big man.

Out of all the starters, I think Rip would be the one who should stay here the most. I would rather see Chauncey and Sheed go, even though it will suck to lose any starter.
:motown owns:

Everyone, take notes.

RIP is da man

Just saw the first reference to Gilbert Arenas and the Pistons.

love the tough talk i'm hearing from Joe D. Awesome. Awesome to the max.

love the tough talk i'm hearing from Joe D. Awesome. Awesome to the max.

No doubt. Ya gotta love the line he said, "Damn right I'm going to make some moves. I goosebumped a bit.

Just saw the first reference to Gilbert Arenas and the Pistons.


where is the reference that you saw?

Is there anywhere I can watch the entire press conference? I was at work at 2. I keep hearing how he sounded so pissed but the only clips I've seen are of him talking about Flip.

nvm, nba.com

thing is, nothing ever catches joe off guard. he always has a plan AND a backup plan.

so i'm super excited to see how he shakes things up and to what extent.

i don't think we necessarily have to blow it all up- unless we can get some great young talent and/picks in return. but i do think we need to trade at least 1 starter- possibly even 2 or 3.

if we're smart we can still maintain our status as a top team and adjust on the fly. might take a slight step back, but hey- it's a changing league. you snooze, you lose.

if we maintain anything even close to the status quo, we will drop off a lot more IMO. and then it will be even harder to 'rebuild' after that. right now we can 'retool' without necessarily 'rebuilding'.

if we wait too long, we might end up in total rebuild mode and take a lot longer to get back where we want to be.

man, i'd love to be a fly on dumars' wall right now. i'd LOVE to know what he's considering with this roster and how he'll go about it.

If Joe had plans upon plans we wouldn't have any roster holes.
Having no true center on the roster?
Not having a backup SF that Flip was willing to play?

where is the reference that you saw?

Blakely/MLive

i'm not seeing your logic if it can be called that. having a plan does not mean you will never have a hole on your roster or that you will always make moves that turn out to be golden.





If Joe had plans upon plans we wouldn't have any roster holes.
Having no true center on the roster?
Not having a backup SF that Flip was willing to play?

What is nobody wants Rasheed because he doesn't rebound, is "old" and is not exactly a consistent player/model citizen? Do we give him away for a lesser player or do we hang on to him because we aren't getting half his value? I wonder what the rest of the league REALLY thinks of Rasheed Wallace and what his trade value REALLY is.

I'm guessing that his contract will have just as much, if not more, value than Sheed himself (and his baggage).

I'm guessing that his contract will have just as much, if not more, value than Sheed himself (and his baggage).


Disagree. Having a player who contributes a great deal and you are not tied to is the value. Lots of expiring deals out there.

I guess I was thinking of the "not being tied to" part as being an additional aspect/benefit of him having an expiring deal.

I guess I was thinking of the "not being tied to" part as being an additional aspect/benefit of him having an expiring deal.

As did I, but his play is still great, he just played in the AS game. People would be taking a shot at his talents, not the ability to dump some coin.

I don't know how you seperate the two.

(even though I came close to trying in #21)

Atlanta wouldn't trade him away again if they traded for him again.

Sheed is a valuable asset to a team close to winning it. 2004 proved he can take a team over the top. 2005-2008 has shown that he doesn't have the drive to play down in the box and be a top scoring option though. Any team with a few scorers would love to add Sheed in as the 3rd-4th option to add range and defense. His weakness (lack of aggression on offense) was highlighted here because we don't really have a #1 scoring option like most teams do. We were really too balenced for him I think. You need to pair him with a player consistantly drawing double teams where he can pick his spots and hit daggers.

What about keeping Sheed, but putting him in a role where you don't have to rely on him as much, like getting somebody else who can make up for the loss...

Remember when the Mavs had Antawn Jamison on their damn bench, if we had something like that, we'd be able to keep Sheed and his nonchalant play and not even have to worry about it being a liability anymore, your not going to get equal return value trading Sheed, and I think Joe would only settle for that since our team really isn't that far away from a title (compared to the rest of the league)

Damn the CBA.

When did the Mavs win it all with Jamison?

Having Sheed is fine if you have another big than can score on the block consistantly. Let me know how we can get a player like that without moving Sheed.

When did the Mavs win it all with Jamison?

Having Sheed is fine if you have another big than can score on the block consistantly. Let me know how we can get a player like that without moving Sheed.


Well they didn't, it was just an example of having QUALITY depth, Jamison won 6th man that year...

and your right, it's not likely to be had

When did the Mavs win it all with Jamison?

Having Sheed is fine if you have another big than can score on the block consistantly. Let me know how we can get a player like that without moving Sheed.

I know it's a pipe dream, but I would keep Sheed if he was paired with Elton Brand.

I know it's a pipe dream, but I would keep Sheed if he was paired with Elton Brand.


thats because the best parts of each of their games differ from eachother, that would be the perfect front court...


Brand grabs boards, Sheed doesnt
Brand can be dominate inside, Sheed can be when he wants too (not often enough)
Brand doesn't have much of a jumper, Sheed does and then some
Brand went to Duke, Sheed went to UNC

^^^match made in heaven

I know it's a pipe dream, but I would keep Sheed if he was paired with Elton Brand.
If Joe can pull that one off, do it. I'd move Billups and Max for Brand if they would do it. Then you could send Dyess to Houston for Battier. Amir backs up Brand and Sheed. Battier backs up RIP and Tay. Pick #29 and Dixon back up Stuckey. Fill in the rest with the MLE.

This was on RotoWorld...


MLive speculates that the following deal could be worked out: Detroit sends Billups to Miami, along with Jason Maxiell, and receives Miami's No. 2 pick, Marcus Banks and Mark Blount.


We'd probably waive Mark Blount right away in that trade. Basically your giving up Maxiell and Billups for Beasley and Banks...

I don't know if Beasely is going to be that great of a player...if Chicago took him, and we could get rose, god I'd give up sex for a year

Brand grabs boards, Sheed doesnt
Brand can be dominate inside, Sheed can be when he wants too (not often enough)
Brand doesn't have much of a jumper, Sheed does and then some
Brand went to Duke, Sheed went to UNC

^^^match made in heaven
Brand has a great jumper, just not 3P range.
He's a superior version of McDyess.

You forgot the biggie, though:

Rasheed tall, Brand short

Remember when Dumars passed on someone who was too short for their position?

One interesting idea would be to offer Wallace to the New York Knicks for his former Portland Trail Blazer teammate Zach Randolph.

While Randolph is nowhere near the defender that Wallace is, he's a more consistent post scorer and rebounder. The Knicks are looking to get under the salary cap before 2010 and are considering moving Randolph to facilitate that process. Wallace is going into the final year on his contract at $13.6 million. Randolph is owed $48 million over the next three seasons.

Nuggets, Pistons Perfect Trading Partners

By: Travis Heath Last Updated: 6/4/08 10:34 PM ET | 1050 times read

Joe Dumars is angry, really angry. He's so angry, in fact, he told media in Detroit yesterday at the press conference to announce Flip Saunders firing that he's open to trading anyone on the team's current roster.

"I don't have any intention of coming back with the same group," Dumars asserted in an almost defiant tone. "But, nor am I going to give these guys away. These are good players and I am not going to take mediocre players back just to say we made some changes. I've got to get value back."

Really? So the Pistons would actually be willing to part with the likes of Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace?

"Make no mistake, everybody's in play now," Dumars said. "There are no sacred cows here. I have no interest in completely ripping the team down, but will I look to make like significant changes? Yeah, you're damn right I will."

Of course, the challenge remains finding a willing trade partner. And even once one is found, trades are always much easier to talk about philosophically than to actually consummate.

All that said, the Denver Nuggets are also a team that is willing to shake things up after being eliminated from the playoffs in the first round for the fifth consecutive season. Could the Nuggets be just the kind of willing trade partner Dumars is looking for?

Denver's brass has said they'll look at every possible scenario this offseason, and there are no doubt plenty of possibilities in Detroit.

For starters, Billups is a guy the Nuggets could take a long look at it, and the Pistons might be ready to move him given his age and the stellar play of rookie Rodney Stuckey in the postseason. The Nuggets could start by building a package around center Marcus Camby who would give the Pistons the inside shot blocking presence the team has lacked since the departure of Ben Wallace to Chicago in the summer of 2006. In addition to being a Denver native, Billups is also a point guard with the kind of size the Nuggets have been looking for to complement Allen Iverson in the backcourt.

However, Billups has never been a pass-first point guard which could cause problems if he were to team-up with Iverson. Moreover, Billups' has three years and a fourth-year team option left on a contract which will pay him $11-million next season and increases by basically $1-million annually through the 2011-2012 season. That is certainly one heck of a salary for the Nuggets to absorb.

The Pistons and the Nuggets could also expand the deal to include multiple pieces. The Nuggets could package Iverson, Camby and Kleiza in exchange for Billups, Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess, a deal which would work under the cap.

The aforementioned deal would undoubtedly shake up both squads. The Nuggets would inherit another potential headache in Wallace. However, when Wallace has his head screwed on straight -- which hasn't happened frequently enough for Dumars' liking in the past couple of seasons -- he's a formidable defender and almost impossible to guard on the offensive end.

Furthermore, given the fact Wallace will be in the final year of his contract next season makes it somewhat less risky of a move from Denver's perspective. It's also worth noting that Denver VP of Basketball Operations Mark Warkentien is familiar with Wallace as a result of their days together in Portland and has a great deal of respect for what he brings to the table.

The deal would also allow two former Nuggets a chance to come home in Billups and McDyess. Billups would give the Nuggets another fan favorite to offset the loss of Iverson at the box-office, and he would also give Denver a bigger and better defender at the point. McDyess would bring a much needed mild-mannered, veteran presence to a locker room full of strong personalities.

For the Pistons, there would definitely be some concerns with regard to whether or not Iverson and Hamilton could coexist given Iverson's propensity to over-dribble and Hamilton's game which is dependent on a good point guard delivering the rock when he comes off of screens. Still, with a scorer like Iverson, a shot blocker like Camby and a developing young scorer in Kleiza, this is a deal the Pistons would have to consider. And much like Wallace, if things don't work out between Iverson and the Pistons, Detroit could simply let him walk after the season.

The Nuggets and the Pistons will no doubt talk to one another in the coming weeks. However, it's important to remember that blockbuster trades aren't easy to pull-off these days for a variety of reasons. That said, both teams appear truly motivated to shake things up this summer and it's hard to imagine either team finding a more willing trade partner.

Hoopshype also has some Billups for Melo junk on their homepage, linking back to Hoopsworld, but I can't find anything else on that one.

:chad:


With the Pistons firing coach Flip Saunders and GM Joe Dumars promising further changes, I wouldn't be surprised to see them find a way to move up in the draft.

One of Dumars' biggest concerns about Saunders (as well as previous coaches Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle) was his unwillingness to develop the younger players on the roster. You can bet that incoming coach Michael Curry will get a stern mandate from Dumars.

The team is very high on Rodney Stuckey and Amir Johnson but still needs another young player or two for the pipeline.

As far as tradable assets go, the Pistons are in great shape. Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess are heading into the last year of their contracts. Richard Hamilton and Chauncey Billups would have great value, especially to teams trying to get over the hump in the playoffs. Tayshaun Prince, the youngest of the core veterans, is someone who would interest almost any team.

In other words, if Dumars wants to remake the roster, it won't be that difficult.

My guess is that Wallace will be the one most in play. I could see the Philadelphia 76ers, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets, Warriors and/or Bobcats making a run at Wallace this summer. And each of those teams, except the Rockets, has a first-round pick good enough to interest the Pistons.

Hoopsworld Glenn, really?

Also, I thought Dumars re-upped Dyess.

Hoopsworld Glenn, really?

Also, I thought Dumars re-upped Dyess.

Yeah, I thought it was two additional years, but maybe one was a player option. No one lists the deal so word never properly leaked I guess.

MAN i wish i could hear what joe's listening to as far as trade offers go.

i'd prefer something that also brings a lotto pick somehow- to get a young athletic talent in here too.

i don't want us to get older without also adding a young stud or 2. we don't want to completely flame out in 2 or 3 years from now.

i think there is a way to compete and contend immediately while also building a team that will have staying power.

Maybe Mxy can call him up and try to sell something to him.

MLive speculates that the following deal could be worked out: Detroit sends Billups to Miami, along with Jason Maxiell, and receives Miami's No. 2 pick, Marcus Banks and Mark Blount.

I would do that. Beasley would be great, I think he'll be a stud. He's a rebound monster too, which shows his hard work.

Fuck yes.

Also, lol@SDB.

id do the trade with miami.

fuck denver.

i wonder what the 76ers would offer us for sheed. dalembert and their pick?

I would do that. Beasley would be great, I think he'll be a stud. He's a rebound monster too, which shows his hard work.


I'm not high on Beasely, he's got a little 'diva' in him...but the Blount & Banks contracts can be moved either by the trade deadline or kept to be able to sign a big time FA in '10, so thats something worth exploring

Yeah, I thought it was two additional years, but maybe one was a player option. No one lists the deal so word never properly leaked I guess.


2007-06-28 Pistons Antonio McDyess player exercised contract option for 07-08
2007-07-23 Pistons Antonio McDyess re-signed to a 2-year, $14.5M contract extension



Antonio McDyess
Player Option for 2007-08 picked up on 6/28/07 / Contract has trade kicker / Extension starting in 2008-09 for an assumed $13,386,000 for 2 years was signed on 7/23/07

Looks like he is signed through 09/10

I've also heard that last year, like Chauncey's, has a team option.

But as you see from those 2 posts, much is unknow about this deal. HH doesn't even list or mention it.

Might be time to ask Langlois.

I'm not high on Beasely, he's got a little 'diva' in him...but the Blount & Banks contracts can be moved either by the trade deadline or kept to be able to sign a big time FA in '10, so thats something worth exploring

Jordan was kindof a diva. Kobe is kindof a diva. Lebron is definately a diva. Doesn't matter if they play all out.

Jordan was kindof a diva. Kobe is kindof a diva. Lebron is definately a diva. Doesn't matter if they play all out.


in your opinion, at 6'8'' what will he be??? a 3 or a 4

Well, NBAdraft.net has him listed at 6'8" and ESPN has him listed as 6'10". Both have him listed at 235 pounds. I would think he could play either spot. Lamar Odom is 6'10" and 230 while Marion is 6'7" and 230. With 12.5 RPG, he must have good instincts there. Most PF's in the league now are quicker PF's that rebound and play defense mostly. I think the days of hard bangers at the 4 like Malone and Barkley are gone. There are some (Boozer, Brand) but most of them are either finesse players or agile rebounders without much of a post game (side show bob, haslem, etc).

in your opinion, at 6'8'' what will he be??? a 3 or a 4

He's going to destroy people no matter where he plays. Beasley is a monster.

I'm a huge Chauncey fan, but I'll pack his bags for him if this goes down.

do you think we'd hang on to Blount and deal him at the deadline, or waive him and let his salary expire...

beasley is fine as far as attitude goes. he's a super stud and i'd be ecstatic to get him. it's highly HIGHLY unlikely though...

as for his game- he's a PF IMO, definitely not a SF. he is a post player who can go out on the perimeter too. (sound familiar?)

he is a great rebounder too. i know a lot of people are making a fuss that he measured in at 6-8 and a bit in shoes. no big deal at all. he has the length of a guy over 7 foot and that's what counts. and as others have said, the nba is getting smaller in some regards anyway.

he has the most important things- great length, athleticism, and the mindset of a stud PF who can hurt you on the low bloc or on the perimeter.

do you think we'd hang on to Blount and deal him at the deadline, or waive him and let his salary expire...

We'd use him next year as a vet backup (like Ratliff) and then send him packing as an expiring if Samb is ready to replace him in 09/10.

shit, Blount is under contract for two more seasons, not one like I thought he makes 7.3 next year and 7.9 in '09-'10...and Marcus F-ing Banks is SIGNED THROUH 2011 at 4.1, 4.4, and 4.7 annually!!


FUCK THAT SHIT, even if it gives you #2 pick, and LMFAO at the d-bag who gave Marcus Banks a five year deal...what the fuck did he ever do to warrant that thing?? Hell, at least make the last 2 years team options or something...

Was that Colagnelo's doing? if so, what the hell were you thinking Bryan?

I think Pharoah might have given Banks that deal.

He was thinking Banks was better than Joe Johnson.

I'd still think about doing that deal with miami...

Yeah, I don't shuck the #2 because of Banks and Blount.

shit, Blount is under contract for two more seasons, not one like I thought he makes 7.3 next year and 7.9 in '09-'10...and Marcus F-ing Banks is SIGNED THROUH 2011 at 4.1, 4.4, and 4.7 annually!!


FUCK THAT SHIT, even if it gives you #2 pick, and LMFAO at the d-bag who gave Marcus Banks a five year deal...what the fuck did he ever do to warrant that thing?? Hell, at least make the last 2 years team options or something...

Was that Colagnelo's doing? if so, what the hell were you thinking Bryan?
I'd still do it. Blounts deal is bad, but not horrible (not much worse than DC for 4 mil a year or whatever it was). he's a servicable backup and not too hard to trade in his final year. Bank's deal is bad, but he did shoot %45 at least in 16 MPG. He simply becomes your Flip Murray/Dixon that backs up Stuckey. 4 mil not great for that role, but worth eating if you get the #2 pick IMO.

I would do that. Beasley would be great, I think he'll be a stud. He's a rebound monster too, which shows his hard work.
I hate it. Beasly is not so good that he'd m,ake up for billups and maxiell. Blount is garbage getting severely overpaid, and marcus banks? oh fuck no I can only hope Joe doesnt take that much baggage with a #2 pick.

I'd still do it. Blounts deal is bad, but not horrible (not much worse than DC for 4 mil a year or whatever it was). he's a servicable backup and not too hard to trade in his final year. Bank's deal is bad, but he did shoot %45 at least in 16 MPG. He simply becomes your Flip Murray/Dixon that plays if Billups or RIP goes down (and Stuckey starts). 4 mil is too much for that role, but worth eating if you get the #2 pick IMO.
I dont care what stat you throw up, banks is garbage. He's not getting passed around for nothing. Blount is a PF, lateral move for maxiell imo. I want a legit center. That imo is a setback trade.

Didn't Arroyo make $4 mill a year?

Didn't Arroyo make $4 mill a year?
Flip murray didnt, and thats what banks amounts to.

What's the difference? Both dribbled the clock away and couldn't facilitate the offense. In fact, Flip could actually make a shot once in a while which Arroyo never seemed to do so it's only better that the dude would be Flip Murray 2 rather than Arroyo two.

Either way, its silly to cancel on a potential franchise player because of swallowing what ammounts to 2 mill less than an MLE contract.

I would still do the deal. I would prefer a center for Sheed and whatever, but that can still be done in a separate deal (for Sheed and Dyess maybe).

Either way, its silly to cancel on a potential franchise player because of swallowing what ammounts to 2 mill less than an MLE contract.
Potential is also known as Darko language. Nothing silly about wanting something better team wise. I dont think the #2 pick with banks and blount over Billups and maxiell makes us better. You can't for a second say thats more of a for sure thing even if you do back it. I want a trade that fills our void at the 5 spot. Its that lack of filling that void thats hurt us the past two years. The year before then it was playing Ben wallace like he was KG at the top of the key(dumbest shit ever).

I would still do the deal. I would prefer a center for Sheed and whatever, but that can still be done in a separate deal (for Sheed and Dyess maybe).
Whatever is a big void, Nazr sits in it. Errr no thanks on or whatever for me.

Potential is also known as Darko language.

Which conference did Darko dominate again?


Nothing silly about wanting something better team wise.

...so you agree that Chauncey/Beasley would be a good deal then.


I dont think the #2 pick with banks and blount over Billups and maxiell makes us better.

Every year that goes by, that deal will look better and better...

Whatever is a big void, Nazr sits in it. Errr no thanks on or whatever for me.

Well, the whatever changes based on the center coming this way. If we're talking JO, than it doesn't include any rotation players. If the deal is for Dwight Howard, I'm willing to include another starter.

Which conference did Darko dominate again?
Thats not relevant to what his potential was listed as. JJ Redick torched the NCAA so I dont get what you're trying to elude to. And as much as I like Battier's game, he's not a franchise guy either dominating in the NCAA. Are you saying that makes him anymore for sure? Because i've seen enough to know better.


...so you agree that Chauncey/Beasley would be a good deal then.
You really are sore about the Flip thing? Either way give these useless answers to someone who'll be more entertained by it. I've pretty much got bored with it(its the same recycled lingo from 3-4 years ago). If you can't say anything better than that, then its either a bad deal or you are too mad about something else to say anything useful on this subject.


Every year that goes by, that deal will look better and better...
Ok Nostradamus you played predict the future with Flip Saunders Tenure here, Dixon, us winning a title with Flip, Theo Ratliff making an impact, Tony Delk making an impact, Cleveland not being more competitive than toronto, and Flip not being fired. I'll pass on this one too.

Thats not relevant to what his potential was listed as. JJ Redick torched the NCAA so I dont get what you're trying to elude to. And as much as I like Battier's game, he's not a franchise guy either dominating in the NCAA. Are you saying that makes him anymore for sure? Because i've seen enough to know better.



Shame on you for playing this stupid for the sake of a bad argument. Apologize and carry on.

Well, the whatever changes based on the center coming this way. If we're talking JO, than it doesn't include any rotation players. If the deal is for Dwight Howard, I'm willing to include another starter.
You lose option if your pushing out starters in another deal..I want to see us explore something that gets a center w/o much lost. I also want to keep the guys who work hard(i.e. maxiell) rather than flip them over for softer guys like blount. I think we'll need tougher players in the Curry era.

And atleast say names we have a shot at. lol Dwight Howard should never be mentioned ever in any trade discussion. Thats like saying we may trade for Kobe or Lebron this offseason.

Either way like last year i'm looking for center as a priority, i'm down for any deal that gets a legit one.

Shame on you for playing this stupid for the sake of a bad argument. Apologize and carry on.
Stupid how? The point is clear, dominating the NCAA doesnt make you a sure bet to draft. Maybe you are looking for something thats not there (again) Herm. And seriously try to respond w/o regressing into a paragraph of ego heavy "you're joke to me on the internet noob, so i dont have to explain myself".

Redick and Battier were not considered studs. They were potential solid roster guys. Beasley isn't in such high regard just because of his numbers or just because he's an athletic freak.

It's as if (and stick with me here guy) there is this hybrid of BOTH proving yourself and receiving incredible kudos from league scouts that makes you one of those "can't miss" guys.

Now, Glenn Robinson or Pervis Ellison would have been decent examples.

You know I love you kid.

Who would you consider a "legit" center that also can be attained Gutz?

And why are you insistent on a center when the mandate from Dumars is to drastically change the core. It seems like only considering a center is trying to fill in the whole in our current lineup rather then conceptually change the lineup all together.

I certianly agree with the "hard worker" focus.

well Gutz, who are these dream players you are speaking of.

Stupid how? The point is clear, dominating the NCAA doesnt make you a sure bet to draft. Maybe you are looking for something thats not there (again) Herm. And seriously try to respond w/o regressing into a paragraph of ego heavy "you're joke to me on the internet noob, so i dont have to explain myself".

No, you just compared Michael Beasley to JJ Reddick and Shane Battier. Apologize to Beasley and move on.

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/653637.html


Charlotte Bobcats should trade for Rasheed Wallace
Brown has good relationship with former UNC center

RICK BONNELL
In My Opinion

I have an idea, and on the surface it will seem a bit reckless, but hear me out:

The Bobcats should consider trading for Detroit Pistons big man Rasheed Wallace.

Pistons basketball operations chief Joe Dumars made it clear Tuesday, after firing coach Flip Saunders, that he's open to breaking up his team's core to freshen the roster. Wallace, in the late stages of his NBA career, would be a logical piece to move.

Acquiring Wallace would seemingly reject the best practices of the Bobcats so far. They haven't spent huge money on older players and have generally avoided players with attitude problems.

Wallace turns 34 in September and makes $13.68 million next season. He's known at least as much for his technical fouls as his versatility. But think about the rest of the story:

That $13.68 million (yes, that would make him the Bobcats' highest-paid player) represents the final season of his contract. So that's a short-term obligation if things don't work out. These days in the NBA, a large expiring contract is considered an asset, not a liability.

More importantly, Wallace's versatility on offense and defense could upgrade the big-man rotation significantly. The challenge for the Bobcats is pairing Emeka Okafor with the right complement.

Okafor is a goalie at the rim; he's very good at that and that's a hard piece to find, but when he has to stray far from the rim (as in guarding a Hedo Turkoglu or Antawn Jamison) he stops being what once made him the No. 2 overall draft pick.

Wallace has the mobility and skills to play all over the court. Defensively, he can guard a jump-shooting power forward. Offensively, his shooting range (3-pointers from the baseline) makes him a match-up nightmare.

As to his personality quirks, Wallace causes more friction with management or fans than with teammates. Players appreciate his unselfishness and sophisticated understanding of the game.

This could work in part because Larry Brown will coach the Bobcats. From what I hear, Brown and Wallace had a great relationship in Detroit, winning a championship together. Wallace speaks warmly of Brown, who he calls "Pounds,'' (as in Brown's initials, L.B.) Reuniting them could be just the tweak to get the Bobcats into the playoffs.

If I were the Bobcats, I'd at least consider giving up the ninth pick, a couple of players and some salary-cap space to make that happen.

Anybody know how much cap space the Bobs have? Are they finally allowed to use the full allotment? (they were limited for a while, due to being an expansion team)

If they have a ton of cap room, they really wouldn't have to send much salary back to Joe, maybe just #9 and another player.

I sure hope that Joe wouldn't take Adam Morrison to back up Tay. (#9 and AM for Sheed?)

Although it might be entertaining, in hindsight.

i fucking hope not adam crybaby morrison.

Anybody know how much cap space the Bobs have? Are they finally allowed to use the full allotment? (they were limited for a while, due to being an expansion team)

If they have a ton of cap room, they really wouldn't have to send much salary back to Joe, maybe just #9 and another player.
I'm pretty sure they have full cap abilities now. They were only restricted for 3 years, and it's been 3 years by now hasn't it?

EDIT - they've played 4 seasons now.

I'm not sure that they have much cap flexibility in Charlotte, especially after taking Nazy off our hands, J-Rich making crazy money, re-signing Gerald Wallace, and giving a mega deal to a role player in Matt Carroll

^^each of those 4 players salaries jump by over 1 million each, and they only have about 4 players coming off the books, the most of which was making 2.3 (Othella Harrington), they had the lowest payroll in the league, they can spend if they want, but I don't think they're going to splurge just because they're not restricted anymore...


and your right, I don't want any part of Adam Morrison, or even Sean May for that matter.

the bobcats only have 35 mil committed. That doesn't count Morrison if they pick up his 4 mil option or Okefor. Still, they have cap space.

anyone know how it works when you trade a player for a draft pick? i mean, if we were to trade sheed for a player and a pick, how would that work under the cap? would they count the expected salary for the draft pick and figure that in the equation when trying to make the salaries match?

cause i know the salaries are pretty much already pre-determined. so i'm wondering what kind of deal we might be able to pull including a pick somehow.

No $ for the pick.

so the pick doesn't factor in at all, as far as salary cap consequences go? that kind of sucks. well i guess it makes sense since the player is not signed yet.

Yeah, the pick has no cap value to it at all.

Potential is also known as Darko language.

Potential is the native language of the pistons. Outside of Rasheed, this team was built with pieces from the nba's thrift store. Pieces which made large strides to improve after they got here.

Pistons eye Carmelo, source says

By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 06/07/2008 10:30:16 PM MDT

BOSTON — Do the Detroit Pistons have eyes for Carmelo Anthony?

It's no secret NBA front-office executives have tried to measure if the Nuggets might actually be willing to part ways with the 24-year-old Anthony, despite assurances to his agent that Denver is not actively shopping the high-scoring forward on the trade market.

Look for the Pistons, who fell just short of reaching the NBA Finals for the third straight season, to be among the teams putting out feelers in regard to Anthony's availability, according to a league source.

In one of the few personnel blunders committed by Detroit general manager Joe Dumars, the Pistons took Darko Milicic with the No. 2 pick in the 2003 draft, allowing Denver to select Anthony.

playing him at the 4? or a trade for tay?

billups+rip+melo would be sick tho...id actually be down for it if we could swing a dice for battier

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/sfl-flspira08sbjun08,0,7118578.column?page=2


Two moves that would make sense: Detroit dealing Chauncey Billups to Denver for Carmelo Anthony, and Cleveland making a run at Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal.

With Billups, the Nuggets would have the definitive point guard they lack, with the Pistons already having Rodney Stuckey to step in. With Anthony, Detroit could begin to revive its offense while atoning for the Darko Milicic mistake.

The Cavaliers' need to placate LeBron James could leave them as the lone team willing to gamble on O'Neal's injury history and massive salary, now that he has elected not to opt out. The shame is last February's mistake of taking on Ben Wallace's salary, with Cleveland holding little in terms of tempting contracts for Indiana.

Redick and Battier were not considered studs. They were potential solid roster guys. Beasley isn't in such high regard just because of his numbers or just because he's an athletic freak.

It's as if (and stick with me here guy) there is this hybrid of BOTH proving yourself and receiving incredible kudos from league scouts that makes you one of those "can't miss" guys.

Now, Glenn Robinson or Pervis Ellison would have been decent examples.

You know I love you kid.
So Sam Bowie isnt a good comparison? :P Either way my point was that no pick is can't miss and when you speak of giving up core players for one while adding players who imo arent worth much to us on the court, Its not a good trade. Well to be more on point its not a good trade for a team that isnt looking to take high risks that could have us making first round exits instead of ECF.


Potential is the native language of the pistons. Outside of Rasheed, this team was built with pieces from the nba's thrift store. Pieces which made large strides to improve after they got here.
So we should be the team they leave to go make strides somewhere else? Darko is a legit rotational guy off the bench, which is a stride for him. But its not one that we were gonna see as a team who needs all their results ASAP.



Who would you consider a "legit" center that also can be attained Gutz?

And why are you insistent on a center when the mandate from Dumars is to drastically change the core. It seems like only considering a center is trying to fill in the whole in our current lineup rather then conceptually change the lineup all together.

I certianly agree with the "hard worker" focus.
off the top of my head? Andris Biedrins(in spite of his weight I think he plays the center position fairly well), brad miller, Nene, JO, Lamarcus Aldridge, and if something falls apart in LA Brand.


well Gutz, who are these dream players you are speaking of.
Take out the word "dream" and look above. Not Dreaming of getting anyone. But I'm of the belief that we need a better option at the 5 spot. One thing I hate is that Saunders never gave Samb another shot to show how much game he did or didnt have outside of swatting every shot for dear life.



No, you just compared Michael Beasley to JJ Reddick and Shane Battier. Apologize to Beasley and move on.
How did I know you would cosign someone else's shit rather than address your own ability to not respond with anything worth a damn. Either way Beasly hasn't played one second of pro basketball, so i doubt that i'll be apologizing to him. But you can still ride his jock the whole way no matter how great or not so great he does.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=759699


Interestingly enough, Hammond's old boss, Joe Dumars, is having a fire sale that includes Chauncey Billups.

It's doubtful the Pistons would want Redd, but what if they wanted Andrew Bogut? Maybe Detroit wouldn't trade within the division, but there's a scenario whereby Redd could stay, matched in a backcourt with Billups instead of another shoot-first guard in Mo Williams. Either Redd or Williams has to go to change the Bucks' soft jump-shooting personality.

Man do I hate Carmelo's defense and decision making. But his offense is nice, just see myself cursing him out for chucking too much on iso's. On the fence about this idea.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=759699
If we pulled off Bogut, i'd live with that. Actually i'd be mildly pleased.


Also the Redd idea is garbage. Dude plays some of the worst defense I have ever seen. And if he's one foul away from foul trouble, expect chucking and matador defense in order to stay in the game. He can shoot lights out, but i hate everything else about his game.

Yeah, I don't want Redd...

Also, gutz I don't see the Blazers dealing Aldridge, JO is a decent idea if he can stay healthy, Miller won't be a big difference maker and Biedrins is decent if you can stand not having real O from him.

I don't know enough about Bogut to have an opinion at this point.

Yeah, I don't want Redd...

Also, gutz I don't see the Blazers dealing Aldridge, JO is a decent idea if he can stay healthy, Miller won't be a big difference maker and Biedrins is decent if you can stand not having real O from him.

I don't know enough about Bogut to have an opinion at this point.
Biedrin actually is fairly decent offensively and rebounds well. Miller is alot like Webber from a passer out the post standpoint but more of a true center than C-Webb and in better health. With the Kings rebuilding, I wouldn't mind getting him (Though he's not much of a shot blocking presence).

Bogut is a physical Post up only Center who rebounds does mostly things your prototypical Centers do in this league. I like his game and if we keep sheed it gives us two low post scorers in the starting lineup. Downsides are that he has no real range outside the post, is foul prone, and his free throw shooting needs work.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_9516722


Pistons eye Carmelo, source says
By Mark Kiszla
The Denver Post
Article Launched: 06/08/2008 12:30:00 AM MDT

BOSTON — Do the Detroit Pistons have eyes for Carmelo Anthony?

It's no secret NBA front-office executives have tried to measure if the Nuggets might actually be willing to part ways with the 24-year-old Anthony, despite assurances to his agent that Denver is not actively shopping the high-scoring forward on the trade market.

Look for the Pistons, who fell just short of reaching the NBA Finals for the third straight season, to be among the teams putting out feelers in regard to Anthony's availability, according to a league source.

In one of the few personnel blunders committed by Detroit general manager Joe Dumars, the Pistons took Darko Milicic with the No. 2 pick in the 2003 draft, allowing Denver to select Anthony.

Man do I hate Carmelo's defense and decision making. But his offense is nice, just see myself cursing him out for chucking too much on iso's. On the fence about this idea.


I agree. I'm not a huge fan of most of Carmelo's game, and if I could've redone the '03 draft, I would've considered Bosh before Melo, but that super star offensive game is something we haven't had since our one-man Stackhouse teams...but if Boston can survive with Ray Allen's putrid Defense, than I think we'd be able to make due with Melo's poor D...

If we pulled off Bogut, i'd live with that. Actually i'd be mildly pleased.


Also the Redd idea is garbage. Dude plays some of the worst defense I have ever seen. And if he's one foul away from foul trouble, expect chucking and matador defense in order to stay in the game. He can shoot lights out, but i hate everything else about his game.


So, you'd trade Chauncey for Bogut straight up?? Then what would you do? Move Dyess to the bench, or try and deal Sheed?...

I don't like a froncourt of Bogut & Dyess, If you get Bogut, you have to keep Sheed, IMO.

Bogut is a heck of a lot better than people give him credit for. We have to double team him half the time he's on the floor. Even Sheed has trouble guarding him in the post.

His defense needs improvement, though.

I would almost consider keeping Sheed if we did trade for Bogut.

I agree. I'm not a huge fan of most of Carmelo's game, and if I could've redone the '03 draft, I would've considered Bosh before Melo, but that super star offensive game is something we haven't had since our one-man Stackhouse teams...but if Boston can survive with Ray Allen's putrid Defense, than I think we'd be able to make due with Melo's poor D...

i can't imagine Melo giving up more points to Lebron and Paul Pierce. when you figure that Melo will at least minimize the scoring impact by scoring 20+ himself, that's not a bad proposition.

i can't imagine Melo giving up more points to Lebron and Paul Pierce. when you figure that Melo will at least minimize the scoring impact by scoring 20+ himself, that's not a bad proposition.


True. And it's not like we've 'shut down' LeBron or Pierce anyway, so we're not losing anything...

the thing i always overlook about Melo is that he's nearly a 50% FG shooter the past three seasons. he seems to have annual horrific, 2-15 FG games vs. the Pistons, so i always imagine he's a chucker. i'll take his 26pts, 7 reb, 50% FG any day.

While we may not have shut down melo or pierce, they do have to work for their points. My issue is melo doesnt play with any effort or heart on defense. Almost as bad as Michael Redd. But in Melo's case I think he could be solid defensively if he applied himself. Before you say "well curry can get him to apply himself", i contend that if Karl couldn't, i dont see anyone else getting him too.

the thing i always overlook about Melo is that he's nearly a 50% FG shooter the past three seasons. he seems to have annual horrific, 2-15 FG games vs. the Pistons, so i always imagine he's a chucker. i'll take his 26pts, 7 reb, 50% FG any day.
He is a chucker, who can post up and score. :)

He is a chucker, who can post up and score. :)


and rebound (better than Tay)

How could we swing 2 trades in order to get both Bogut and Melo?

I'd love them on our team... if for nothing else than something different! (Bogut averaged near 17, 10 for much of this season)

Some thoughts on the last few pages...

I'd do Billups for Melo, they would not. I would not do Billups and Tay or RIP though. I'd want something else back (which they don't have much beyond Melo).

Billups for Bogut would work for me (I'd probably want Bell back in that deal as well just to have some guard depth). I'd also keep Sheed (for his defense) and move Dyess to Houston for Battier. I'm not a fan of Redd either.

I can't vouch for the source, looks like it's a blog, but...


The Nuggets next trading partner...Detroit?...

In our offseason recap of the Marcus Camby situation, I suggested that the Detroit Pistons might be interested in the former Defensive Player of the Year should they flame out in the Eastern Conference Finals again. Well, the Pistons did in fact flame out and GM Joe Dumars has fired their coach and said personnel changes are coming this summer. Could the Nuggets be an able trading partner?

On Friday, Travis Heath at HoopsWorld threw out an Allen Iverson/Marcus Camby-for-Chauncey Billups/Rasheed Wallace trade possibility. And today, the Denver Post's Mark Kiszla is reporting that the Pistons might be interested in Carmelo Anthony (which is kind of funny considering it was Tashaun Prince's presence on the roster that prompted Dumars to pass on Melo in favor of Darko Milicic in the 2003 draft).

Meanwhile, George Karl has resurfaced from hip surgery (you sure you don't want to take a whole year off to recover, George?) to laugh off the Melo-to-the-Nets rumors while maintaining that no Nuggets player is untradeable.

I like Detroit as a possible trading partner, but not for Melo. A Billups-Iverson swap could be interesting, but only on chemistry grounds. Both players are essentially the same age (Billups turns 32 this fall, Iverson turned 33 yesterday) and are hybrid points/assist guys with Billups being closer to a true point guard, obviously. Billups is less expensive (owed $36 million over the next three seasons) than Iverson (will make approximately $45 million over the next three seasons), and is a better three-point and free-throw shooter. But Iverson is a much better scorer and can impose his will on a game, something Billups doesn't do.

But again, on chemistry grounds, you have to at least think about it if you're the Nuggets. With Iverson deferring to Melo, he's not the A.I. that we traded for. Whereas Billups is accustomed to being "one of the guys" vs. "the guy", and as a three-point threat he could expand the floor for slashers like Melo, Kenyon Martin and J.R. Smith. And of course Billups is a Denver native.

I doubt Detroit would part with Billups for A.I. unless they could ship out the troublesome Rasheed Wallace, as well. Wallace would most certainly come at the price of Camby, and unfortunately a Wallace addition would make the Nuggets locker room even more of a disaster than it already is. But it's worth thinking about and I'm sure Denver Stiffs readers will come up with other Detroit trade scenarios for us.

http://www.denverstiffs.com/2008/06/nuggets-next-trading-partnerdetroit.html

I don't see any of those deals working. We wouldn't ship Billups for AI or Camby IMO.

I think they meant Billups/Sheed for AI/Camby.

Don't like it at all. I'd take Melo/Camby from them, but for what from us?

and unfortunately a Wallace addition would make the Nuggets locker room even more of a disaster than it already is

talk about an uninformed stereotype...moron

perception = reality

I don't want Camby. What about Nene?

the guy with less talent?

No, I mean giving up less... I don't think Camby is good enough to trade one of our top tier guys for.

Nene makes an average of $10 million a year. We'd be giving up a starter for him whether we wanted to or not.

Ah, sort of had that possibility in the back of my head, but I didn't know if I made it up. Thanks for the figure.

He has 4 years and $43 million, left to be exact.

The Carmelo/Billups rumors were all over ESPN today. They even discussed it at length on PTI. This thing is sounding very real.

The Carmelo/Billups rumors were all over ESPN today. They even discussed it at length on PTI. This thing is sounding very real.

NBA Offseason > any other sports offseason

perception = reality
which is why his trade value is lower than most think.

How could we swing 2 trades in order to get both Bogut and Melo?

I'd love them on our team... if for nothing else than something different!
Eh, you're on your own there. I want to win another title and i never find being different and fresh a priority evernot even on a "if nothing else" consolation level. Leave that for casual fans i guess.

Eh, you're on your own there. I want to win another title and i never find being different and fresh a priority evernot even on a "if nothing else" consolation level. Leave that for casual fans i guess.
Your not sick of watching the same team come out and lay eggs in the post season?

Your not sick of watching the same team come out and lay eggs in the post season?
Absolutely, but not even Stephen Hawkins can come up with an equation to explain how that's relevant to wanting to see this team different for the heck of it. I want better results than the Flip era, how I get it and whose on the team to help us get it doesnt matter to me. Whether its the same core or a new batch. I find no consolation in young guys playing or having a "fresh look if nothing else". Just my humble opinion, dont really mean to bash anybody who wants to see a youth movement as a priority or a superstar in here. But i can't relate to the idealism.

Absolutely, but not even Stephen Hawkins can come up with an equation to explain how that's relevant to wanting to see this team different for the heck of it. I want better results than the Flip era, how I get it and whose on the team to help us get it doesnt matter to me. Whether its the same core or a new batch. I find no consolation in young guys playing or having a "fresh look if nothing else". Just my humble opinion, dont really mean to bash anybody who wants to see a youth movement as a priority or a superstar in here. But i can't relate to the idealism.
What we have right now isn't working.
I am of the opinion that taking the risk and changing it up is better than staying the same, knowing we will go nowhere.

But hey, for that reason I thought (and still think) the Shaq trade was good, so whatever.

the idea is that we need guys with more hunger and passion and without the lazy mindset. THAT is what is spurring the call for a bit of a youth movement or change in general. let's not forget, the youth movement of relying more on j-max and stuckey proved extremely valuable.

we didn't just play young guys for the fun of it- we developed 2 very good young players (and amir possibly being the 3rd) who were and are critical to our success. i don't see that ideology being anything but a positive one. you need to continue to find and develop young talent.

we have a bunch of vets who were in PERFECT position for 3 years now to advance and win the finals- this year in particular. not getting it done this year solidifies the thinking that we do need to shake something up. not 'just for the sake of it' but because we NEED to if we want to reach our goal.

unless of course we're satisfied with 'almost' winning a title. i know i'm not and thankfully joe is not either. yes, we've had great success and enjoyed a very good team that most fans would be thrilled with.

but we have STILL underachieved and it's all or nothing for a team that was built for a title. we don't need to blow the team up but we do need to do SOMETHING fairly significant.

What we have right now isn't working.
I am of the opinion that taking the risk and changing it up is better than staying the same, knowing we will go nowhere.

But hey, for that reason I thought (and still think) the Shaq trade was good, so whatever.
And as they exited the first round we saw otherwise. But for the record i liked the shaq trade not for change but for help in their weaknesses. big difference to me and all they gave up was a guy who was leaving regardless. The risk factor is a farce imo. Most of the teams worth a damn didnt give much up to get these supposed high risk trades to greatness. In fact most of these high risk moves usually crash and burn.


What we have right now isn't working.
Well in the real world its not that black and white, you gotta decide which parts were working, which were not, which can work next year, and which can't. Risking too much is is how you end up like chicago rebuilding. Since Joe ruled rebuilding out, i doubt we take these risks you seek.


I am of the opinion that taking the risk and changing it up is better than staying the same, knowing we will go nowhere.
And why do you think this, because if nothing else we're different? again we just have different priorities on being different and winning. And you dont know we'll go nowhere Nostradamus, so that's kinda weak to me. Like Joe said we were good enough to do better than we did, so tweaking the team may be needed. But making us over isnt.

HP how do you feel about the fact that maxiell could be trade bait too?

Well in the real world its not that black and white, you gotta decide which parts were working, which were not, which can work next year, and which can't. Risking too much is is how you end up like chicago rebuilding. Since Joe ruled rebuilding out, i doubt we take these risks you seek.
Your assuming I want us to take massive risks. I was something done to change this team - I trust whatever moves Joe makes will be good. That said, if Joe leaves the team the same, I have no faith in us getting any further than we ECF.


tweaking the team may be needed. But making us over isnt.
Once again, Im not necessarily advocating a massive rebuild. You agree we may need some tweaking, which is what I think needs to be done.

Your assuming I want us to take massive risks. I was something done to change this team - I trust whatever moves Joe makes will be good. That said, if Joe leaves the team the same, I have no faith in us getting any further than we ECF.
question...What exactly is the same?

I think if we keep most pieces and hire a staff with the fire to push us there, we can get further. Curry is the x-factor imo, what he and his staff brings scheme, and philosophy wise will be a big factor. . With that said I also think we'd be in better shape with a center who can change the game on defense and the boards, and sheed exclusively at PF.

question...What exactly is the same?

I think if we keep most pieces and hire a staff with the fire to push us there, we can get further. Curry is the x-factor imo, what he and his staff brings scheme, and philosophy wise will be a big factor. . With that said I also think we'd be in better shape with a center who can change the game on defense and the boards, and sheed exclusively at PF.

Kurt Thomas, unrestricted free agent...have him split minutes with dyess...

Joe said on the radio today that he's talked with 10-12 teams already, one of course being the Nuggets.

I bet being Joe would be awfully fun right now.

I bet being Joe would be awfully fun right now.


I've always wanted to be Joe Mauer. He can bone any chick he wants, and has the best sideburns since Elvis...

When their offenses stagnated, Miami, Cleveland and Boston all had a guy you could just hand the ball to and get the hell out of the way. AI is that type of guy, so is Melo. I wouldn't object to either of them being on the pistons' roster next season.

^^^thats how we lost Gm 6 Vs. Boston, offense went completey stagnate for 5 minutes...

thats all it takes/took...

everybody on our current roster has the uncanny ability to disappear offensively for some reason (usually they all pick the same time to do it too), and as a fan, there is nothing more frustrating to watch than see a 12+ lead go down the drain...

When their offenses stagnated, Miami, Cleveland and Boston all had a guy you could just hand the ball to and get the hell out of the way. AI is that type of guy, so is Melo. I wouldn't object to either of them being on the pistons' roster next season.
those guys choke too and have on many occasions because they were the guy everyone sat around and looked to. The question becomes what do you do when carmelo is shooting sub 40 percent like he did last playoffs, or he gets double teamed w/o be all that great a passer? Stagnant offense? No stagnant defense. Our defense and rebounding has too often been stagnant and slow. Its those areas that lost us this season. Believing in that stagnant offense farce is what got us Flip as a coach in the first place. I'm hoping for a better effort to get to the ball and better defensive adjustments in game. Also better offensive adjustments because there were times that the celts made defensive adjustments and we just took it in the face rather than making our own.

^^^thats how we lost Gm 6 Vs. Boston, offense went completey stagnate for 5 minutes...

thats all it takes/took...

everybody on our current roster has the uncanny ability to disappear offensively for some reason (usually they all pick the same time to do it too), and as a fan, there is nothing more frustrating to watch than see a 12+ lead go down the drain...
Actually being the position to be eliminated because you arent rebounding, boxing out perkins of all people, and have no consistent defensive presence in the paint was more frustrating to me.

When their offenses stagnated, Miami, Cleveland and Boston all had a guy you could just hand the ball to and get the hell out of the way. AI is that type of guy, so is Melo. I wouldn't object to either of them being on the pistons' roster next season.
Too bad Melo floats in and out of the game like Sheed. He doesn't play defense either. The only reason he gets rebounds is because he's surrounded by chuckers too. Sure, he's the type of guy you can give the ball to in the last 5 minutes and get baskets. He's also the type to let his man blow by him constantly. Do we really want to count on him to keep Lebron in check? How about Pierce? If he had the drive that Lebron and Kobe have he'd be a top 5 player in this league.

^^^thats how we lost Gm 6 Vs. Boston, offense went completey stagnate for 5 minutes...

thats all it takes/took...

everybody on our current roster has the uncanny ability to disappear offensively for some reason (usually they all pick the same time to do it too), and as a fan, there is nothing more frustrating to watch than see a 12+ lead go down the drain...

Our offense stagnated tons of times during the Larry Brown era too. That's not how we lost Game 6... in those years, we would play AMAZING DEFENSE and even do a little REBOUNDING too to make up for it.

Our offense stagnated because we had a crappy offense and/or executed it poorly. Not because we don't have any weapons. Sheed can get us a basket in the post, so can Billups. The problem isn't that we have no scorers, it's that they all stand around looking for someone else to make a play for them. They just aren't aggressive anymore. That's why we need a shakeup. Not because we don't have enough talent.

Our offense stagnated because we had a crappy offense and/or executed it poorly. Not because we don't have any weapons. Sheed can get us a basket in the post, so can Billups. The problem isn't that we have no scorers, it's that they all stand around looking for someone else to make a play for them. They just aren't aggressive anymore. That's why we need a shakeup. Not because we don't have enough talent.
Crappy? no. Inconsistent? Yes. Some of that can be put into leadership imo. Billups called alot of plays w/o any consequence or scolding him if he did something dumb. Remember Flip has to tell Stuckey that he's supposedly yelled at billups before, but its obvious that Stuckey never saw it, and maybe nobody else. I never liked the idea of Billups calling plays w/o anyone to remind him not to call some bullshit. I also think since he is in charge of playcalls, he should take on a chunk of the blame for lack of execution(especially when he was the biggest cheerleader for the scenario w/o LB or any coach riding him). My hope is that CBill hasn't got so full of himself that he isnt going to take some criticism as well as he did b4.

Our offense stagnated because we had a crappy offense and/or executed it poorly. Not because we don't have any weapons. Sheed can get us a basket in the post, so can Billups. The problem isn't that we have no scorers, it's that they all stand around looking for someone else to make a play for them. They just aren't aggressive anymore. That's why we need a shakeup. Not because we don't have enough talent.

I actually think we sucked offensively partially because of poor execution but also because the starters really aren't exceptionally great (but were given 40 minutes a night by their fearless leader because of his perception that they were). We don't have that go-to player. As a result we needed to be coached differently.

The truth is Joe D. built this team in order to get the bench involved and to use the guys that were playing well in big situations or could add energy to a lethargic group rather than just playing the starters big minutes. When scenarios like this occurred in the regular season it's when this team played its best.

And instead we saw Flip Saunders shorten his rotation during the playoffs (once again!) and continue to go to the well with a group that was proven to be not good enough to get things done.

Flip never held players accountable for their performance (or lack thereof) and instead rewarded the starters simply because they were starters (other than ben wallace because flip didn't believe in rebounding or help side defense but rather the jump shot.....or other than rip hamilton who inexplicably didn't play in a key stretch in the final 5 minutes of an elimination game.....). And who could forget Flip's benching of Jason Maxiell in the ECF against the cavs in game 3 just after he almost single-handedly won game 2?

For some reason he just HAD to play antonio mcdyess 30 minutes. I never understood the flip saunders/antonio mcdyess lovefest.

Flip's been retarded for many years now. Glad everyone is starting to recognize the obvious.

i want nothing to do with melo, but i would LOVE iverson in detroit. he has the heart and talent to be the type of go-to guy we need. he makes a ton though so we'd have to trade 2 starters for him.

billups and rip for ivy? we'd need to get a pick or something else maybe.

Our offense stagnated tons of times during the Larry Brown era too. That's not how we lost Game 6... in those years, we would play AMAZING DEFENSE and even do a little REBOUNDING too to make up for it.


No we lost GM 6 because we went on a drought, I was at that game, if we just made two or three baskets when they went on the huge 4th Quarter run, we would've been fine... Now that said, we lost the SERIES b/c of lousy rebounding and sub-par Defense...but Gm 6 was ours if we just made a few more buckets in the midst of the C's run...


and I'm not at all implying we should've won the series either...I wouldn't have liked our chances in Gm 7

billups and rip for ivy? we'd need to get a pick or something else maybe.


that's way too much to give up for Iverson...

Melo would cost us more than AI would...

Dumars Fuels the Fire

By: Bill Ingram
Last Updated: 6/11/08 2:36 PM ET

Most of the time NBA general managers like to play it coy. They'll hint at something, you get to read between the lines, and then somewhere you come to an understanding of what's going on.

You know what's refreshing? When a GM comes right and tells you what's on his mind.

"Listen, I knew once I said that last week the phones would start ringing and I knew following that the rumors would start," said Dumars, in clarifying his well-publicized statement about wanting a trade. "And I will say this: We aren't talking to teams about their second- and third-best players. My point has been, if I am going to put these types of guys (the Pistons' five starters) on the market, don't waste your time talking to me about guys you don't like."

An early rumor had Dumars interested in Houston's Tracy McGrady (who's said to be untouchable), but the one that's running rampant right now has Carmelo Anthony moving to Motown. Whatever the deal winds up being, Dumars doesn't want anyone calling to unload baggage. To get one of his core guys you're going to have to give up an All-Star.

So far Dumars has had some level of conversation with at least ten teams, one of them being the Denver Nuggets.

RotoWorld...


ESPN's Chad Ford lists six trade rumors involving the Pistons in a Thursday column, one of which has the Bobcats sending Gerald Wallace, Adam Morrison, Sean May and the No. 9 pick to the Pistons for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince.



My Thoughts: I can live with just one, but you try and give us both Morrison AND Sean May...

FUCK THAT

I do love Gerald Wallace though, but that trade leaves us with a huge hole at PF/C and not much else to trade to get one, not to mention we suddenly become one of the smallest teams in the league...

Sean May is never going to stay healthy for an entire season...

No 9 Pick gets us what??? Eric Gordon, Danilo Gallinari, Kevin Love?? I'll pass...

Pornstache Piston?

<shakes head>

This is exactly what I feared.

What were Ford's 5 other Piston rumors?

Somebody needs to post those.

This is exactly what I feared.

What were Ford's 5 other Piston rumors?

Somebody needs to post those.

What he said!

Eh, probably should be filed under "speculation" not "rumors", but interesting nonetheless.


If Detroit is dealing, here are six trades that work

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com

Updated: June 12, 2008

A visibly emotional Joe Dumars said last week that changes were coming in Detroit after another painful loss in the Eastern Conference finals. Despite the Pistons' regular-season success, Dumars was no longer happy with the direction his franchise was heading.

Dumars isn't a man of many words. When he speaks, people listen. His team got the message and so did everyone else in the league -- he was putting the core of his team on the market.

He wants to rebuild his team while still competing for championships. In particular, Dumars is looking to receive impact players while making the Pistons younger.

For the past week, his phone has been ringing off the hook. Most teams covet what the Pistons have -- seasoned veterans who put their team over personal agendas and know how to win.

Dumars knows that, too, and he's driving a hard bargain.

"I will say this. We're not talking to teams about their second- and third-best player," Dumars said on Tuesday. "My point has been, 'Look, if I'm going to put these guys on the market, then don't waste your time talking about guys you don't like.' That's where it is now. Nothing is imminent. But I've talked to at least 10 teams."

He's sitting in a pretty good position. The Pistons have a number of assets that they can put together in trades.

Chauncey Billups is an elite point guard whose contract, while long, is pretty reasonable at $10 million per year. Richard Hamilton is a 20 ppg scorer who has two years and $23 million left on his deal. Tayshaun Prince is a rangy defender who can guard multiple positions on the floor. He has three years, $30 million left on his deal. Rasheed Wallace may be an enigma, but he's in the last year of his contract and could still be valuable for a playoff team.

The only player off limits is rookie Rodney Stuckey, who's being groomed to take over for Billups or Hamilton at guard.

So exactly what kind of deal might Dumars be able to pull off?

I spoke with a few executives around the league to get an idea of what Detroit's opportunities are. Here are a few scenarios that could make sense for both Dumars and his trading partners:


1. Denver's Carmelo Anthony, Chucky Atkins and No. 20 pick for Billups and Prince

This deal has already been rumored for a while. Nothing is imminent, in part because Anthony and Billups are base-year-compensation players. They can't be traded for each other until after July 1, when they lose that designation.

This move isn't as farfetched as it seems. The Nuggets are struggling and need some balance on their team. They're desperate for a point guard to run the team, especially one who can shoot. And they probably can't move Allen Iverson, Kenyon Martin or Nene, which appears to limit their two tradable assets to Marcus Camby and Anthony.

Anthony would give the Pistons a go-to scorer. He has struggled to keep his nose clean in the league, but there's no denying his talent. Playing with a more disciplined, structured team like the Pistons could be just what Anthony needs. Detroit would miss Billups' leadership, but Stuckey should be able to come in and hold down the fort.

But are the Nuggets getting enough for Carmelo? It's debatable. A backcourt of Billups and Iverson would be formidable. Prince is a glue guy who would add some defense. And Billups could help set an example in the locker room. But unless the Nuggets were to get great years from Martin and Nene, would they have enough to win in the West?

Another factor also speaks against the Nuggets pulling the trigger. Billups turns 32 in September. Anthony just turned 24. History says that, in the long run, the Pistons would win this trade.

But if the Nuggets decide they want to cut ties with Anthony and still compete for a championship, this may be the best option they're going to get.


2. Utah's Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Jarron Collins and Morris Almond for Hamilton, Prince and Arron Afflalo

As a contender without the right pieces to get over the top, the Jazz are in a similar boat as the Pistons. Could this swap help both teams?

Utah would get two veteran wing players to shore up its two weakest positions on the floor. The Jazz would lose an All-Star in Boozer, but the move would allow them to shift Andrei Kirilenko back to the 4, where he thrived before Boozer joined the team -- and they have Paul Millsap to back him up. Also, Boozer has an early termination option after the upcoming season. I think the Jazz are concerned that he'll bolt Utah for a bigger market.

Detroit would be giving up two key wings but getting back a low-post scorer and rebounder in Boozer, something the team has needed the past few years. Stuckey would step in as the starting 2 guard. Brewer would give the Pistons a long defender who can play both the 2 and 3, and Almond showed a lot of promise in the D-League last year. The Jazz would still need to find someone to play the 3, but they have trade bait like Jason Maxiell or Antonio McDyess to make that happen.

This is a trade that would shake up the core of both teams while allowing them to compete for an NBA championship next year.


3. Dallas' Josh Howard for Tayshaun Prince or Richard Hamilton

Howard is a talented player, but he appeared to wear out his welcome in Dallas this spring with revelations, during the playoffs, that he smokes pot in the summer.

With the Mavericks desperately trying to compete for a title next season as their roster ages, adding a playoff veteran like Prince or Hamilton makes a lot of sense. Prince is a better fit in terms of position, but the Mavs could really use another scorer like Hamilton as well.

For the Pistons? They win either way. Howard can both defend and put up numbers offensively. If they were to swap Hamilton for Howard, the Pistons could find plenty of deals for Prince to bring them back something else they needed.


4. Charlotte's Gerald Wallace, Adam Morrison, Sean May and No. 9 pick for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince

Larry Brown has a history of stepping into messy teams and immediately posting impressive results. But he'll struggle to do that in Charlotte unless he gets a few proven winners to put alongside some of the Bobcats' younger players.

This deal would reunite Brown with two of his favorite players from his run with the Pistons. Put Raymond Felton, Jason Richardson and a re-signed Emeka Okafor on the floor with Prince and Rasheed Wallace and you're looking at a playoff team in the East. The deal also would give the Bobcats some future cap flexibility should they want to make more additions down the road.

The Pistons would lose two core players but add an excellent scorer and defender in Wallace. At No. 9, a number of interesting big men could be available, including Kevin Love, Brook Lopez, Darrell Arthur, Marreese Speights and Kosta Koufos. As for Morrison and May? They both look like draft busts right now … but their contracts expire at the end of the season.


5. New Jersey's Richard Jefferson, Nenad Krstic (via sign-and-trade) and No. 10 pick for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince

This is a deal that the Nets, especially, would be motivated to do. But it would have to wait until free agents could sign their deals in mid-July.

The Nets are trying to find ways to clear cap space for the summer of 2010 to be in the running for LeBron James. This deal would help them achieve that goal. While Prince and Jefferson both have four more years on their contracts, Prince makes roughly $4 million less a year than Jefferson. In the meantime, Wallace and Prince would keep the team competitive in the East.

The Pistons would get another big-time scorer in Jefferson. And Krstic looked like a potential All-Star big man before he tore his ACL about 18 months ago. He is finally getting back to 100 percent, and the Pistons could probably get him at a reasonable number to shore up their front line. With the 10th pick in the draft, the team would have to take whomever the Nets selected. But considering that all signs point to New Jersey going big here, it would likely be another big body who could help.



6. Houston's Tracy McGrady and No. 25 pick for Rip Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace

This is the least favorable option for the Pistons, but worth noting.

The Rockets flirted with moving McGrady at the trade deadline, but they couldn't find a deal that worked for them. Would the Pistons be able to help them out?

McGrady, like Anthony, is a go-to scorer, and at 29 years old, he still has some gas left in the tank. He averaged 27 ppg in the Rockets' last playoff series with Utah.

The key advantage for the Pistons? They would get some important, long-term cap relief down the road -- enough to make a run at a max free agent.

But there's a significant downside here. McGrady has never led a team deep into the playoffs. He also has a history of back problems and has missed significant portions of several seasons.

This deal would be a no-brainer for the Rockets, who would seriously upgrade their guard position and, with Wallace, would put the perfect complement next to Yao Ming.

Most of those seem uninspiring to me.

Here's my breakdown per trade:

1. I'd love to get Melo and the 1st helps but will Stuckey and Atkins work at PG? I'd give this a maybe.

2. This trade doesn't really do anything for me. I like Boozer but Detroit is gving up two all-star caliber players for one. Pass

3. This is a lateral move at best. Pass

4. This isn't a bad trade but I'd like to get a little more for Detroit. Gerald Wallace is a great player and the #9 pick is nice but what about Morrison and May? If Kander could work his magic on May.....who knows. Still I would want a little more. Leave this a maybe depending on who's available at #9.

5. Not a bad trade but again I'd want a little bit more for Detroit. Depends on who's available at #10. Make this a maybe.

6. I think that Detriot is giving up too much here. Two All-Stars for one broken one? Pass.

I like the idea of getting Boozer, but I'm not so sure about that trade. We're giving up two starters for him essentially.

I pretty much agree with everything mic said. I don't like the idea of paying Jefferson 4mill more per year than Tay's making.

I like #1 (maybe the only Melo deal I've liked). At #20 we can probably get a decent PG to replace Billups (who's losing a step anyway).

I also like #2. Yes, it's two starters. but, it's for an allstar big man. I would then move Dyess to Houston for Battier (or some other team for a solid wing player). I'm not sure how Almond did in the D league, but I liked him in the draft last year (I thought we might take him with our late first).

The rest don't do much for me really. Maybe a Tay/Howard swap would be good, I don't know.

weird- i tried the 4th option on the trade machine and it was rejected. perhaps it's last year's salaries.....?

in any case, i think that trade is very much in our favor. i'd do it in a heartbeat. not a fan of morrison but his deal is done next year. may is a fantastic young player once healthy and g-wallace is an allstar if he's on a good team. and he's only 26.

AND the #9 pick....? that's an outstanding trade for us IMO. i personally don't think charlotte would do it, but who knows.

I think Larry could talk them into it.

May reminds me of Corliss, when healthy.

there are some similarities. but i think may is potentially a much better player. he's taller and probably has a bit more athleticism and range on his shot.

i would be ecstatic if we could pull that off. jordan has been talked into making dumb trades before- it would be nice if LB could get him to go for this too!

Those trades aren't bad, but too many are "perimeter oriented" trades involving guys like Rip and Prince. Our real issues are our front-court

Flip never seemed to give a crap about certain things, but if Curry's talk is to be believed, we need to plug those holes and gives him the players needed to follow through.

Interior Defense. Rebounding. Points in the Paint.

I have no clue how to do it, but we need to convert: Rasheed/McDyess/Maxiell/Amir into that.

there are some similarities. but i think may is potentially a much better player. he's taller and probably has a bit more athleticism and range on his shot.

i would be ecstatic if we could pull that off. jordan has been talked into making dumb trades before- it would be nice if LB could get him to go for this too!

Don't forget where May went to school.

Don't forget where May went to school.


Heritage?

I would do the Utah deal if we could then swing Gerald Wallace in from Charlotte, even if it's for Rasheed.

Chauncey
Stuckey
Wallace
Boozer
McDyess

Not bad, but I still think the Pistons can do better.

were you citing that as another difference between corliss (arkansas) and may (UNC) or as a reason MJ would have loyalty to may....? i'm thinking it's the latter but i wasn't sure what you meant by the reference.


Don't forget where May went to school.

I want no part of Nenad Krstic, ever since he tore his ACL, his game took ten steps back and never started to develop again...

I would do the Utah deal if we could then swing Gerald Wallace in from Charlotte, even if it's for Rasheed.

Chauncey
Stuckey
Wallace
Boozer
McDyess

Not bad, but I still think the Pistons can do better.


^^I think that team loses to Orlando in Rd. 2...you'd have to count on Stuckey averaging 20+ ppg with that lineup



we'll have no size

were you citing that as another difference between corliss (arkansas) and may (UNC) or as a reason MJ would have loyalty to may....? i'm thinking it's the latter but i wasn't sure what you meant by the reference.

Yeah, the Carolina thing. He's marketable there, and with the MJ/LB UNC connection, I would think that they'd have to be pretty displeased with him to trade him.

I can't believe you guys wouldn't do Ford's 4th deal!
Billups/Stuckey
Hamilton/Afflalo
Wallace/Morrison
Johnson/Maxiell
McDyess/May/Samb
+#9 and #29 and #59?
We would again have too many 4's, but we could follow this up with a second trade.

oh no doubt, i would most definitely do deal #4! i just don't think charlotte would. that trade seems insanely slanted to us. prince and sheed for g-wallace, may, morrison, AND #9....? wow. i'd jump on that like a fat kid on a smartie.

BTW you left out amir in your rotation.

how do you figure? we get back just as much size in that deal

and we'd need stuckey to average 20PPG....? i don't think so. we have more scoring threats in that deal than ever before. g-wallace is a much better scorer than prince and boozer is a very capable 20PPG threat.

that being said, i don't see any way we pull both those moves off. but that lineup would be a huge improvement, hypothetically speaking.


^^I think that team loses to Orlando in Rd. 2...you'd have to count on Stuckey averaging 20+ ppg with that lineup



we'll have no size

i think the dallas deal is the best one, especially if you can give up prince for howard straight up...

josh is twice the offensive player tay is, from a consistency stand point, and he's not a bad defender either...

yeah but his head is in the clouds. he coasts at times and disappears at least as much as prince does. he's very talented for sure, but he's not the sharpest tool in the shed as evidenced by his comments on the radio a few months ago.

but even without holding that against him, i am not all that interested in his game for us.

I would do the Utah deal if we could then swing Gerald Wallace in from Charlotte, even if it's for Rasheed.

Chauncey
Stuckey
Wallace
Boozer
McDyess

Not bad, but I still think the Pistons can do better.
You forgot we got Brewer in the Utah deal as well.

Would Denver do Sheed/Billups/Max/#29 for Melo/Camby/Atkins?

(edit - took Dyess trade out)

Use MLE on Posey.

PG Stuckey/Atkins
SG Brewer/Posey
SF Melo/Posey
PF Boozer/Dyess/Amir
C Camby/Dyess/Amir

^ well i won't repeat my dislike for melo. (wait, i think i just did) but aside from that, those deals leave us ridiculously thin on the bench. given what joe has done the last year, i don't see him thinning out our bench. even with the MLE and a draft pick or 2, that's a very thin bench.

besides, do you really think we'll blow up the entire starting 5 like that? joe has said he's not doing that. everyone is on the trading block, yes. but not everyone is going to be moved. you're advocating trading 6 of our top 7 players from the rotation last year.

that's not gonna happen in reality. nor should it. but it makes for a fun discussion, sure. don't let me ruin your fun! :o

You are right, all 5 will not be traded, but it's fun to tinker.

The only place we are thin really is PF/C and that depends on Amir. Remember all those starters would play 30-35 minutes a night anyway. Atkins is a capable backup and certainly Battier is.

I'd use the MLE on PJ Brown, Lorenzen Wright or Kurt Thomas and maybe bring back Dixon (if we could afford them with the MLE). Worst case would be Ratliff and Dixon I would guess.

You could always keep Dyess and simply use the MLE on a backup wing player instead if you like.

Think it's possible that instead of dividing the MLE between fringe NBA players like Lorenzen Wright and Juan Dixon, we could just throw the entire thing at a guy like James Posey??

Provided he doesn't exercise his measley 3 million dollar option (which I think is entirely possible he'll opt out and become a UFA), he's a quality player, is solid on both sides of the ball, and he can stop the bigger forwards that give Tayshaun fits...

He's worth the investment, IMO...

As much as I hate him as a player, he's an ideal 'Piston' and can be had without giving up anybody, and won't put us over the tax threshold

Think it's possible that instead of dividing the MLE between fringe NBA players like Lorenzen Wright and Juan Dixon, we could just throw the entire thing at a guy like James Posey??

Provided he doesn't exercise his measley 3 million dollar option (which I think is entirely possible he'll opt out and become a UFA), he's a quality player, is solid on both sides of the ball, and he can stop the bigger forwards that give Tayshaun fits...

He's worth the investment, IMO...

As much as I hate him as a player, he's an ideal 'Piston' and can be had without giving up anybody, and won't put us over the tax threshold
Yes. In fact I would prefer that. I only used it on those players after my trade senarios. With no trades, I definately offer the MLE to Posey. In fact you could do my trades still, just skip the Dyess/Battier trade and sign Posey with the MLE.

pietrus is another guy i like with our MLE.

Childress could work too, I don't think Atlanta would match that (especially with all the cash they will have to dish out to resign Smoove), and Childress might even cost you less than the full MLE...

no way. they would most certainly match, even the full MLE. look at some of the jokers in the past who got the full MLE.......and childress is a rock solid and still improving young kid. they've pretty much said they'll match all offers for childress and smith.

it would be nice, but it's not gonna happen.

no way. they would most certainly match, even the full MLE. look at some of the jokers in the past who got the full MLE.......and childress is a rock solid and still improving young kid. they've pretty much said they'll match all offers for childress and smith.

it would be nice, but it's not gonna happen.

Agreed.

BTW you left out amir in your rotation.
Actually, he has Amir JOHNSON starting at the 4 in that rotation.....

no way. they would most certainly match, even the full MLE. look at some of the jokers in the past who got the full MLE.......and childress is a rock solid and still improving young kid. they've pretty much said they'll match all offers for childress and smith.

it would be nice, but it's not gonna happen.


Really, you think they would match Childress, who isn't even a starter, at the full MLE...

I don't know, maybe Billy Knight would, but I don't think he's as valuable to them as he would be to some other team such as Detroit...

But perhaps I'm underscoring his value a bit...

they might even go over. josh childress is a damn good player and honestly, he could be starting for alot of teams. not ours but he'd be a really good 6thman off the bench for us,

Really, you think they would match Childress, who isn't even a starter, at the full MLE...

I don't know, maybe Billy Knight would, but I don't think he's as valuable to them as he would be to some other team such as Detroit...

But perhaps I'm underscoring his value a bit...

Knight resigned about a month ago, Rick Sund is the GM now.

Knight resigned about a month ago, Rick Sund is the GM now.


I know, I meant that if he was still there, he would most certainly give Childress the full MLE, if not more...

But with Sund, I'm not so sure what direction he'll want to go...

Kind of random, but just to get it out there...Acie Law is a bust.

It's possible that Atlanta would be interested in doing a S&T for Childress, though.

That would keep our MLE available.

a sign-and-trade is possible. but they do view him as one of their 'core' players. so it would take a pretty attractive offer for them to deal him IMO. from everything i've read, both parties want to work something out so i don't see him wanting to leave or them wanting to move him.

so i'm not holding my breath on that one. back to the MLE thing......there are plenty of MLE guys who are bench players. several of whom aren't even big role players. childress is most definitely worth the MLE. remember what the MLE is- it's based on the average nba salary, is it not?

so it's not hard to believe that he's worth at least the MLE.

HoopsHype said that Posey's agent said he'll definitely opt out of his contract, and that Boston will probably only be able to offer him the full MLE (which they may not do because they have so many other FA's like Brown, Cassell, House)...

I'd still give him the full MLE...he may be the only UFA worthy of it

Posey is a puss, sorry but he is. his defense is overrated, he cheap shots someone when they get the best of him, and his 3 pointer isnt as clutch as advertised.

I sort of agree with V here... Posey is a decent player, but I don't like him or particularly want him here.

I don't like Posey either, I think offensively, he plays like a girl and he only makes threes when he's unguarded, but his defense is actually pretty decent (above average compared to most SF's), Tayshaun can't guard Pierce & LeBron, a guy like Posey can at least keep those guys modest, and when you look at where we are as a franchise, those are the only two guys/teams who are capable of keeping us out of a Finals appearence next season (unless you really believe Orlando is going to improve next yr, which I certainly don't)...

We have the MLE at our disposale, and even if we gave the entire thing to Posey, we'd still be under the tax line...

adding Posey isn't going to guarantee us anything, obviously, but he's a far better option than Jarvis Hayes, he's not going to bitch about playing bench minutes, and we wouldn't have to get rid of anything to get him...

find a better unrestricted free agent SF out there for me...you can't

I'd take Affalo over Hosey Posey(and maybe that's who should have come in for Tay in the series? rather than warm that bench to near death).

This is from yesterday, but since nobody else posted it...


Who needs Carmelo? Ex-Spartan Zach Randolph is just what the Pistons need
June 15, 2008
By Drew Sharp

How about Zach Randolph as a Piston?

The New York Knicks power forward fits the profile that Joe Dumars defined as prerequisites for a trade. Randolph is an impact player. He'll definitely fill a void, providing a consistent low-post offensive presence.

But the most intriguing aspect of courting Randolph is that it might not cost the Pistons as much as trying to get Carmelo Anthony or Tracy McGrady.

Randolph, the former Michigan State star, doesn't fit in new Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's up-tempo offensive philosophy. He also has three years and an outrageous $48 million remaining on his contract, making him even more expendable.

The Pistons should have gone after Randolph last season, when Portland shopped him around, but Dumars was confident that his veteran core had at least one more serious shot at the crown.

The Pistons would be a good spot for Randolph, who's still battling issues with immaturity. He's not a leader.

He remains a follower.

Getting maximum production from him on the court and respectable conduct off the court are incumbent upon placing him on a team with strong positive influences in the locker room, on the coaching staff and in the front office.

His skill set does fit us. But who do we trade, Sheed or Dyess? Sheed and Randolph would be amazing from a talent standpoint, but would Sheed's complaining rub off on Randolph. And would Dyess even fit in their offense (he's more of a half court player).

What about RIP, Max and #29 for Randolph and #6?

MLE on Posey?

#6 on Gordon (Joe gets his 3 combo guard rotation).

PG Billups/Stuckey
SG Stuckey/Gordon
SF Tay/Posey
PF Randolph/Dyess/Amir
C Sheed/Dyess/Amir

i think that might be a little too much chris. take out max or 26 but i wouldn't be too mad about it.

rip would be perfect for their system and zbo can play in the paint efficiently while grabbing more rebounds than anyone else on the team so far.

BUT...7lvYf08X6tc

really?with sheed? ion know maybe curry can change this fat fuck

If that's the case I would probably keep #29 and draft a wing there (or trade Max for a pick and draft a wing with that pick).

i think the Knicks would take less value to get rid of Z-Bo...

unfortunately, we should S&T theo to a 1 year and trade him to NYK for him...they won't get a better offer than that...

theo for 1 year, or zachary for 5?? balls in your court donnie

what is he making? about $15 million a year, right? so you're suggesting we sign theo to that much and trade him to NY?

Technically you'd only have to send about 11.5 mil over to them for Randolph (doesn't have to be exact match). I'm not sure we can actually sign Theo to that large of a deal though anyway (it depends on bird rights and I haven't looked into that).

just saying, Zach has no value whatsoever in D'Antoni's offense, and he's signed long term, Donnie Walsh should be willing to trade him for nothing...

Zach has 3 years and over 45 million left on his deal, I think Donnie would even take a corpse (say like Raef LaFrentz's expiring deal) to simply get rid of him...

isn't theo 'grand fathered' into the league??? you can give him 11.3 if you wanted to right???

I'd take Affalo over Hosey Posey(and maybe that's who should have come in for Tay in the series? rather than warm that bench to near death).


Affalo would get obliterated by both LeBron and Pierce...Afflalo could've been a nice option to throw on Ray-Ray, but not LeBron or Paul

isn't theo 'grand fathered' into the league??? you can give him 11.3 if you wanted to right???
Even if you could there is no way Davidson would allow us to add another 15 mil to our salary (we'd be paying a lot of taxes). We'd have to send them Dyess at the very least. Our best bet would probably be to send another starter for their pick as well since we'd never be able to extend all our players with that much salary locked up.

Probably RIP/Dyess for Randolph/Chandler and #6 or something along those lines.

yeah i know, i was just making hypothetical bs, with my main point being i wouldn't give NYK alot for Zach, considering he has no value where he is...they should be begging us or anybody to take him for minimal trade value, no way i give up rip and another starter for him, i'd rather make a run at brand instead...

What about a 3 way with NY and LA?

NY sends Randolph (15 mil), Chandler (1 mil) and #6 to DET, Q-Rich (8 mil) to LAL
LAL sends Odom (14 mil) to NY and Vujacic (S&T) to DET
DET sends Dyess (7 mil) and to LAL and RIP (10 mil) to NY

DET
Out:
Dyess
RIP
In:
Randolph
Vujacic
Chandler
#6

NY
Out:
Randolph
Chandler
Q-Rich
#6
In:
RIP
Odom

LAL:
Out:
Odom
Vujacic
In:
Dyess
Q-Rich

It may need some tweaking with picks.

Odom and RIP fit into the new offense in NY. Sasha fits here in a 3 guard rotation with Billups and Stuckey. Randolph gives us the post scoring we need. Chandler shores up backup SF and allows us to use #29 to stash someone overseas. # 6 can be used on a big time talent. LA gets a solid big to backup Gasol and Bynum (and also defense and rebounding). They also get a 3 point shooter to replace Sasha that also will help on the boards a little more.

The Lakers would need picks for sure, but that's interesting.

LAL gets an old Dice and a broken QRich with a bad contract, while losing a solid young player in Vujacic and a big expiring deal (Odom).

Would they do it for a NY future (has to be after 2010) and AA in there too? I'm not sure who we'd take at #6. Gordon? Randolph?

Also note that unless they move Odom at some point they get nothing for him in return. If they keep him he moves to SF or the bench (and Walton and Radmon become almost useless). They have too many forwards and need a F/C that can improve their defense and rebounding.

They have too many forwards and need a F/C that can improve their defense and rebounding.

Even with Bynum?

THIS IS TREADING ON "FUN WITH TRADE IDEAS" TERRITORY

I'd rather have Donyell Marshall then Odom.

DM's contract sucks though.

^ Green text?

I'd rather have Donny Marshall than Donyell Marshall.

Even with Bynum?

THIS IS TREADING ON "FUN WITH TRADE IDEAS" TERRITORY

Well, Bynum doesn't play the whole game. Do you put Odom at SF? If so, then when Bynum hits the bench you are bringing in Walton at SF, Odom slides over and you become very soft up front again. I suppose you can live with that for 15 minutes a game but Odom can't stay with PP anyway (so how can he play SF exclusively).

I heard something last night that was very true. LA got lucky they never faced Utah or NO. Those teams would have eaten them alive on the pick and roll because LA's big men don't play help defense.

The Lakers played and beat Utah in the 2nd round.

The Lakers played and beat Utah in the 2nd round.
Um, oh yeah. They must have said they were lucky to get by them I guess. I was just repeating what I heard. Come to think about it they were saying something about how Utah wasn't ready yet to contend. That's what I get for channel surfing and catching half a story.

Hello, 6-team mega-deal...


Detroit Pistons are in the mix, in draft and trade rumors Posted by Dave Dial June 19, 2008 10:22AM Reading Chad Ford's latest piece in ESPN Insider, there seems to be a lot of teams not pleased in what they have, player-wise, their draft positions and are interested in trading players, picks or both.

The problem seems to be in finding the right partners.

June 19, ESPN Insider: The Suns and a number of other teams are talking to the Minnesota Timberwolves, New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, Milwaukee Bucks, Portland Trail Blazers and Nets about trading up in (or out of) the draft... The Wolves seem especially ready to make a deal if Michael Beasley isn't on the board at No. 3. This is all preceded by rumors that Chad Ford has heard saying that the Suns want to find a starting small forward and bring Grant Hill off the bench, and then lists several players that are available, Tayshaun Prince being one of those players.

But with the Suns dangling Barbosa, Diaw and the 15th overall pick, there would not be much interest from Dumars. Other players listed are Josh Howard, Richard Jefferson and Gerald Wallace. Mr. Ford goes through the reasons why there are problems with the Suns ability to acquire any of those players. But let's take the column as a whole and see if there is something that can be worked out to the benefit of everyone.

With the Wolves looking to trade down from the third overall pick, the Knicks wanting to trade Zach Randolph for cap relief, the Suns putting Diaw, Barbosa, and the 15th overall pick as trade bait, Joe Dumars saying his whole roster is in play(sans Rodney Stuckey), the Bobcats holding the 9th overall pick and Gerald Wallace as tradable assets and the Mavericks putting Josh Howard on the block, there seems to be the making of a massive trade that could work out for all of those teams.

In a scenario that works, the Timber Wolves could end up with the 6th overall pick from New York, a future first from the Mavericks and their second round pick from the Pistons returned(Ronald Dupree trade), the Knicks get Jason Maxiell, Rasheed Wallace and the 29th overall pick from the Pistons, the Suns get Tayshaun Prince, the Bobcats get Josh Howard and the 15th overall pick, the Mavericks get Diaw, Barbosa and the 3rd overall pick and the Pistons get Gerald Wallace, Zach Randolph and the 9th overall pick.

There would have to be additional players involved as cap fillers, but it's a deal that works for everyone involved. Based on the information that Chad Ford gives in his Insider piece, there could be some big trades during the draft, and finalized in July. This is just one of the many possible scenarios that could occur.

Here's the rundown:

Pistons trade: Sheed, Tayshaun, Maxiell #29 pick, Minnesota's 2nd rounder
Pistons receive: Gerald Wallace, Zach Randolph, #9 pick

Knicks trade: Randolph, #6 pick
Knicks receive: Maxiell, Sheed, #29 pick

Suns trade: Leandro Barbosa, Boris Diaw, #15 pick
Suns receive: Tayshaun Prince

Bobcats trade: Gerald Wallace, #9 pick
Bobcats receive: Josh Howard, #15 pick

Timberwolves trade: #3 pick
Timberwolves receive: #6 pick, future Dallas 1st and their 2nd rounder returned from Detroit

Mavericks trade: Josh Howard, future 1st rounder
Mavericks receive: Diaw, Barbosa, #3 pick

Not sure what the does to our salaries yet, but yeah.

Re-signing Rip would be paramount in that scenario.

Randolph makes a little more than Sheed, but Wallace makes a little less than Tayshaun.

I want to look at what it does in future years, not just this year.

Randolph's deal is 2 years longer than Sheed's, Wallace's deal is the same length as Tayshaun's at a slightly cheaper rate, with a player option for another year at $11 million.

I would be all for that trade, but it seems like we are getting alot don't you???

I mean, it's a good thing, just strange to see us get the #9 pick along with all of that...

Eh, I don't know what the #9 is going to amount to this year, IMO. And I don't really like Randolph much.

US? how about the mavs? they're getting a ridiculous amount for josh howard and a future #1. diaw, barbosa, AND the #3 overall pick?

that's insanely slanted towards dallas.

Pistons trade: Sheed, Tayshaun, Maxiell #29 pick, Minnesota's 2nd rounder
Pistons receive: Gerald Wallace, Zach Randolph, #9 pick

PASS -PASS - PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I the only guy who doesn't care for this trade?

Prince and G. Wallace are a wash although I'd rather have Prince

Sheed is better that Zach because he plays D (sometimes) and is an expiring. Zach has a pretty brutal contract.

Max, #29 and Minny's 2nd for #15 is not to our advantage. Max would be a #15 or better in this draft and we lose a 1st and a 2nd.

In what part of this deal do we get Better? Younger? Better cap situation?

Am I the only guy who doesn't care for this trade?


Uhhh.. no.

Pistons trade: Sheed, Tayshaun, Maxiell #29 pick, Minnesota's 2nd rounder
Pistons receive: Gerald Wallace, Zach Randolph, #9 pick

PASS -PASS - PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I the only guy who doesn't care for this trade?

Prince and G. Wallace are a wash although I'd rather have Prince

Sheed is better that Zach because he plays D (sometimes) and is an expiring. Zach has a pretty brutal contract.

Max, #29 and Minny's 2nd for #15 is not to our advantage. Max would be a #15 or better in this draft and we lose a 1st and a 2nd.

In what part of this deal do we get Better? Younger? Better cap situation?

First off, you take Gerald Wallace over prince 10 times out of 10. I'd make that trade straight up, no questions asked.


He averages more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. He also shoots a higher %FG. He's way ahead in three of those categories. He's also a stellar defender.

To top it all off, he makes LESS MONEY.

Anybody that doesn't wear a Prince jersey to sleep in at night is jumping all over that one.

Secondly, Randolph also averages more points, reboudns and assists than Sheed, and shoots far better from the floor until you reach the 3-point line.

...and we don't want Randolph because he only shows up on defense sometimes?

Sheed only show up on OFFENSE sometimes.

We also need sheed's expiring contract for...what? So we can go out and sign a 20/10 player....like Zach Randolph?

Throw in th 9th pick in the draft, with guys like Alexander, Lopez and Love out there, and I'm taking this deal.

I would do that, but I don't want any part of Randolph...

yeah i love prince but g-wallace is simply a better player. perhaps on both ends of the court too. only thing prince has on him is that wallace has had some injuries.

but he's a dynamic guy and someone i'd LOVE to have. even at the cost of losing a player like prince who i really like and respect.

but yeah- not a fan of the rest of that deal. unless randolph somehow grows up and becomes a man, it's not a trade i like. not to mention that we also lose j-max who is a key member of our rotation.

anyway, as i pointed out before- the fact that the mavs would get the #3 overall pick, diaw, and barbosa for howard and a future #1 shows that this trade is way off base.

even with a filler or 2, there's no way the mavs could pull that off. they couldn't get the #3 for howard and a future #1. so how on earth would they also get barbosa and diaw too? totally looking past the fact i don't like what the pistons get, that is ridiculous for what dallas gets. that would never happen.

Randolph isn't my favorite human being on earth, but neither is sheed, and we were more than willing to accept him.

Randolph is a 20/10 guy that plays exactly the kind of game the Pistons with Rasheed Wallace would play and never did.

While he isn't in Sheed's class as a defender, Sheed isn't on the same planet as a consistent offensive threat.

And yes, the Mavs end needs tweaking, but it's a realistic scenario.

sheed is a great teammate though. all his previous coaches and teammates would attest to that. i'm not sure the same can be said of zach. maybe i'm wrong but i'm just saying....

sheed is a great teammate though. all his previous coaches and teammates would attest to that. i'm not sure the same can be said of zach. maybe i'm wrong but i'm just saying....

His most recent teammates and coach beg to differ.

A great teammate would have stepped up his game in game 6 instead of moping into the team huddle to start the game and playing like he didnt give a fuck.

Lindsey Hunter didn't really care for him hugging garnett pre-game, either.

His most recent teammates ............ beg to differ
Really? who? I mean something more concrete than "no hugs allowed" quotes. Not starting anything, just asking because i didnt see anything to suggest that.

anyway, as i pointed out before- the fact that the mavs would get the #3 overall pick, diaw, and barbosa for howard and a future #1 shows that this trade is way off base.

even with a filler or 2, there's no way the mavs could pull that off. they couldn't get the #3 for howard and a future #1. so how on earth would they also get barbosa and diaw too? totally looking past the fact i don't like what the pistons get, that is ridiculous for what dallas gets. that would never happen.

Taking on Diaw and his contract is not a positive

Really? who? I mean something more concrete than "no hugs allowed" quotes. Not starting anything, just asking because i didnt see anything to suggest that.

Did you not see that Sheed basically walled off his teammates before game 6? He didnt do his usual celebrating with them in the huddle, he never spoke to any of them unless it was on the floor

He was through with them. It was pretty clear.

I think he was just extremely focused in trying to win.

Big G-wall fan. When he plays. Head thing worries me.

No offense, I'm just being practical, but can we ban WTFChris from this thread?

while i have issues with some of sheed's antics, i wouldn't read too much into the game 6 thing. i've seen him do that on many occasions. true, it was a must win game 6.

but the bottom line is, he's done 'walled himself off' from his teammates on many occasion and while we don't know exactly what may or may not have gone on, i don't think we should read too much into it. sheed is a different guy and his teammates always swear by him.

sheed is a different guy and his teammates lately swear at him.

Ficxzt.

I think he was just extremely focused in trying to win.

It certainly showed on the floor.

wow biggest trade ever?

it'd definetely be interesting and offense shouldn't be a problem. i wonder who we would take with the 9