Randolph is not in the same class as Sheed so don't even try to pull that bullshit. He's a 20/10 guy on a shitty non-playoff team, but SHeed would be a 20/10 guy on that team easily. Sheed is the better player of the two and only a fucking idiot would dispute that.

Did you not see that Sheed basically walled off his teammates before game 6? He didnt do his usual celebrating with them in the huddle, he never spoke to any of them unless it was on the floor

He was through with them. It was pretty clear.
Well that's not concrete at all. Saying it's clear doesn't make it so either. But with that said you are entitled to your opinion of the situation in the locker room. But I've heard nothing from anybody saying he was a bad teammate ever in his history here. Again I do think he was being scapegoated for our team's weak start and finish, but that's fairly selective when some of the same people dont want Flip scapegoated.

This trade will never happen as it is total puke garbage for the pistons.

Make Tayshaun Prince the #1 or #2 option on a bad bobcat team and see how that impacts his offensive stats not to mention that wallace has missed 57 games the last 3 years while prince has missed 0. Pass.

Zach Randolph, although a nice offensive player, would give the pistons the worst defensive front court in the league when matched up with antonio mcdyess. If you thought it was easy to score against the pistons last year just wait until you see what would happen if this deal went down.

And you want the pistons to toss in Maxiell as well, a guy that never fit into the Flip Saunders philosophy of only playing guys that shoot jumpers and completely ignoring the guys that hustle, play defense and try to rebound? Maxiell is a large part of joe dumars' plans for this team's future.

This deal doesn't improve the pistons. The only deal that will improve the pistons if we can somehow locate a team dumb enough to trade for chauncey.

And then there's that.

If you thought it was easy to score against the pistons last year


......you're an idiot?

......you're an idiot?

If you thought we defended the rim well the past 2 years then you need a refresher course on how this game is played.

If you thought we defended the rim well the past 2 years then you need a refresher course on how this game is played.

If that's the case, then then the entire NBA outside of Boston needs a refresher course, because the Pistons has a better defense than anybody else.


And you want the pistons to toss in Maxiell as well, a guy that never fit into the Flip Saunders philosophy of only playing guys that shoot jumpers and completely ignoring the guys that hustle, play defense and try to rebound? Maxiell is a large part of joe dumars' plans for this team's future.

Maxiell also didn't fit into the philosophy of having guys with an IQ above 50.

Hustle is the dumbest excuse imaginable for guys that miss assignments, don't box out their man and need to make spectacular plays every time down the court to bail out their own fuckups.

Maxiell is dumb as a box of rocks. He's not a big part of anything that doesn't include a 7th or 8th man role.

And again, Tayshaun<Gerald Wallace. If you can't see that, you don't watch the NBA outside of the Pistons. It's so freaking obvious it's absurd. No GM in his right mind would take Tayshaun over Gerald.

the 7th or 8th man in a rotation can be a difference maker. he can give you quality minutes, and equally importantly he can keep your starter fresh.

i maintain that maxiell is a pretty valuable guy for us and fits the type of player we need in detroit. ask the lakers how important posey, or brown were as boston's bench guys. maxiell is a different type of player but is capable of just as big an impact IMO.

as for prince versus g-wallace.....i couldn't agree more. gerald wallace might be one of the most underrated players in the nba. he's extremely good on both ends of the court. he can be a bigtime scorer (and can also score off the dribble, unlike the guys we have!) and also a damn good defender.

and i say that as a big fan of prince's. wallace is simply the better all around player. the only issue with him is durability. but i think he's just been unlucky more than not truly being durable.

also, i have to strongly disagree too about the 'defending the rim' issue. we gave up more points in the paint than anybody in the league, i believe. i don't care what the numbers say though, it is painfully obvious that we do not defend the rim the way we need to or used to.

Randolph is not in the same class as Sheed so don't even try to pull that bullshit. He's a 20/10 guy on a shitty non-playoff team, but SHeed would be a 20/10 guy on that team easily. Sheed is the better player of the two and only a fucking idiot would dispute that.


Sheed has never been a 20/10 guy in his entire career. Not once has he ever averaged 20 points or 10 rebounds, let alone in the same season. Take the homer cap off.

A fucking idiot would be the one that doesn't notice sheed isn't a 20/10 guy and never will be...

If that's the case, then then the entire NBA outside of Boston needs a refresher course, because the Pistons has a better defense than anybody else.



Maxiell also didn't fit into the philosophy of having guys with an IQ above 50.

Hustle is the dumbest excuse imaginable for guys that miss assignments, don't box out their man and need to make spectacular plays every time down the court to bail out their own fuckups.

Maxiell is dumb as a box of rocks. He's not a big part of anything that doesn't include a 7th or 8th man role.

And again, Tayshaun<Gerald Wallace. If you can't see that, you don't watch the NBA outside of the Pistons. It's so freaking obvious it's absurd. No GM in his right mind would take Tayshaun over Gerald.

You won't get an argument from me when you say that the celtics were the best in the NBA at defending the paint. It's why they are the champs and why it was so blatantly obvious they were better than the pistons. That still doesn't mean the pistons were any good at defending the paint so your argument really isn't one. Try again.

And if you don't see the value of a guy like jason maxiell, a guy that at least attempts to help on the defensive end, adds energy to what has been a lethargic starting unit over the past few years, was almost single-handedly responsible for 2 wins in the ECF in 2007 (only to be benced in game 3). has a back-2-the-basket offensive game (although limited) and is probably the best shot blocker on the team even though he's shorter than Rip Hamilton, again, you need a refresher course on how this game is played. Jason Maxiell was not the problem with the detroit pistons.

To say maxiell is dumber than a box of rocks says more about you than it does about Jason Maxiell. In many ways he plays the game like it should be played by a person with his physical liabilites and skill set. He doesn't stray far from the basket, plays with energy at both ends and does more with his 6'5" frame than just about any other PF in this league.....name someone that does more with less at that position from off the bench? He'll never be an all-star but he can and will contribute more to the team now that King Retard is no longer coaching.

And although I can see a debate on the subject as being valid, I believe prince is a more versatile player than gerald wallce (and yes, I've seen him play and consistently brick jump shots since his days in sacramento) and is ultimately more valuable.

I still contend that prince, if playing for a bad team like the b-cats where he's the #1/#2 option on the offensive end, you'll see more impressive offensive stats from TP. Add to the fact he's much better at spreading the floor on offense (because he can hit a 3-point shot) and can do more things with the basketball (wallace is a great finisher but not exceptionally good at creating for himself and others), I'm not ashamed to think that prince is better than gerald wallace.

Wallace is more physical and a better rebounder, yes, but he also misses 20 games a year which doesn't exactly help a team. Both are above average on-the-ball defenders. Wallace can really dunk the basketball but so could harold miner. I leave it at that.

so if i understand your post, you want us to sign harold minor in FA?


:p

In many ways he plays the game like it should be played by a person with his physical liabilites and skill set.

Making mental mistakes every 30 seconds, now THAT'S how the game should be played!

Forget about silly boring stuff like boxing out, paying attention to defensive assignments, not fouling when you're in the penalty, just go for the highlight play and average joe fan will love you for getting on sportscenter.

[quote]Add to the fact he's much better at spreading the floor on offense (because he can hit a 3-point shot) and can do more things with the basketball (wallace is a great finisher but not exceptionally good at creating for himself and others), I'm not ashamed to think that prince is better than gerald wallace.[/qute]

When LeBron or Pierce decides they don't want Tayshaun to score, he doesn't score. Prince has a terrible shot off the dribble, and no post move outside of a baby hook that he never gets off when it really matters because his man pushes him out of the paint like a rag doll.

Prince makes Gerald Wallace look like Kobe Bryant offensively. Gerald's better at everything except 3-point shooting. It isn't even close in some respects.


I don't need to read the rest of the argument about Tayshaun and Gerald Wallace. gerald is better. There's nothing else to discuss, and the idea that Tayshaun would be anything more as a #1 or #2 option is fanboyism at its best. Tayshaun is a very limited offensive player that gets the points he has because half the time the other team leaves him wide the fuck open, or guards him with their worst defender.

Comparing Gerald Wallace to Harold Miner is the cherry on the "what the fuck are you talking about" sundae.

If the Bobcats offered Wallace for Prince straight up, Dumars would have it done yesterday. He's a better player with less exposure.

\Comparing Gerald Wallace to Harold Miner is the cherry on the "what the fuck are you talking about" sundae.


Ha! Brilliant. :cogent: [smilie=blaha.gif]

Question: Shouldn't Joe Dumars take the fall instead of placing the Pistons' lack of success recently on another head coach? When Nazr Mohammed, Maurice Evans and Jarvis Hayes are the only free-agent acquisitions in three seasons, shouldn't the GM get some of the blame?

Answer: Every general manager makes big mistakes, and Dumars' biggest was probably taking Darko Milicic with the No. 2 pick. But Dumars is one of the best in the league at building a team. He has taken chances with players no one wanted, like Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups. He has managed the team's budget well and hired good coaches.

Flip Saunders is a solid coach, but he inherited a two-time Finals team. He had little chance to improve on that. His players often didn't listen -- they asked, "What have you done?" That's one reason there could well be major changes with the Pistons this summer.

Dumars recognized Ben Wallace didn't have much left and let him go. I can see the Pistons moving Billups for that reason. Billups in a package with Tayshaun Prince is what's being mentioned around the NBA, and that could yield something interesting. With Wallace nearing the end of his contract, you can see the Pistons retooling on the fly. I can see Dumars taking a run at Zach Randolph.

Making mental mistakes every 30 seconds, now THAT'S how the game should be played!

Forget about silly boring stuff like boxing out, paying attention to defensive assignments, not fouling when you're in the penalty, just go for the highlight play and average joe fan will love you for getting on sportscenter.

[quote]Add to the fact he's much better at spreading the floor on offense (because he can hit a 3-point shot) and can do more things with the basketball (wallace is a great finisher but not exceptionally good at creating for himself and others), I'm not ashamed to think that prince is better than gerald wallace.[/qute]

When LeBron or Pierce decides they don't want Tayshaun to score, he doesn't score. Prince has a terrible shot off the dribble, and no post move outside of a baby hook that he never gets off when it really matters because his man pushes him out of the paint like a rag doll.

Prince makes Gerald Wallace look like Kobe Bryant offensively. Gerald's better at everything except 3-point shooting. It isn't even close in some respects.


I don't need to read the rest of the argument about Tayshaun and Gerald Wallace. gerald is better. There's nothing else to discuss, and the idea that Tayshaun would be anything more as a #1 or #2 option is fanboyism at its best. Tayshaun is a very limited offensive player that gets the points he has because half the time the other team leaves him wide the fuck open, or guards him with their worst defender.

Comparing Gerald Wallace to Harold Miner is the cherry on the "what the fuck are you talking about" sundae.

If the Bobcats offered Wallace for Prince straight up, Dumars would have it
done yesterday. He's a better player with less exposure.


Again, if you don't understand the value of a Jason Maxiell and think a guy that brings energy and passion to the game especially on the defensive end (and has won games for the pistons) then you don't really understand the game. You probably were anti-ben wallace because he never boxed out. Why not bitch out mcdyess for not

And again, I can definitely see why someone would think that gerald wallace is a better player than tayshaun prince. Both are flawed players that are better at some things than the other. But neither is infinitely more talented than the other.

Wallace is a better scorer in that he takes more shots and most of his shots are near the basket and therefore gets to the free throw line more (which I like) but he's also not the greatest mid-range shooter and even worse if extended to 3 point land. Even then, he and prince shoot the exact same percentage even though prince takes a larger % of his shots from the perimeter. That means Gerald takes some really bad shots. Maybe he's the guy with a basketball IQ under 50 and not maxiell?

Both wallace and prince average about the same on the boards per 48 and tayshaun is much better at extending the floor at running the offense, something he's asked to do very often with billups off the floor.

And yes, if you make a person a more central figure in an offense rather than the 4th option it's going to result in more shots and inflated stats. That's basic. Take a look at the history of the game and see what average players do on bad teams when they are #1 or #2 options on offense.

Regardless, the difference between the two isn't enough in my mind to package he, Rasheed and jason maxiell for gerald wallace, Zach Randolph and the #9 pick unless the guy we get with the #9 pick is a guy with great potential. Not sure that's available at 9. This deal doesn't really help the detroit pistons. Wallace is a nice player but he isn't the answer.

And neither of them are prince or lebron so stop tossing names like these two when making a point against prince. Really? Prince isn't as good as Lebron or Pierce? Really? (note: that was sarcasm)

I'm starting to think you're just anti-tayshaun prince.

And I can't help if you didn't get my harold miner joke (translation: Just because you're more athletic and can dunk doesn't mean you're a better basketball player). I forget I have to dummy things down to 3rd grade level around here sometimes.

translation: Just because you're more athletic and can dunk doesn't mean you're a better basketball player

No, I think averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than the other guy makes you a better player.

No, I think averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than the other guy makes you a better player.
Do you really not get it, or are you just arguing to be a cunt?

To change subjects, I took this off of ESPN.com:

"Denver denied that it was looking to trade Anthony, but the rumors have persisted. Detroit recently offered Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince for Anthony, but the Nuggets weren't interested. Denver countered with an offer of Allen Iverson or a package built around Marcus Camby, but the Pistons are only interested in Anthony."

If this is true then, A) Denver is stupid not to take that trade and B) They are even dumber to think that we'd give up that much for Iverson and C) They are just plain dumber than dirt to think that we'd give up those two players for a "package built around Camby".

Now I know why Denver is a borderline playoff team. Their front office is retarded!!!

My thoughts exactly, mick. I almost think it's too much for the Pistons to give up Tay and Chauncey for 'Melo, but for them to not take that trade is stupid. Good luck getting a better deal than that.

Report: Nuggets reject offer of 2 Pistons for Carmelo
BY KRISTA JAHNKE • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • June 22, 2008

The Pistons are in ongoing trade discussions with the Denver Nuggets, with two All-Stars as the potential centerpieces, a team source told the Free Press on Saturday.

The Nuggets want to bring point guard Chauncey Billups back to his hometown, and the Pistons are looking to make good on their botched 2003 draft and bring high-scoring forward Carmelo Anthony to Detroit, the person confirmed.

But while talks are ongoing, the Nuggets, at this point, are reluctant to include Anthony in any deal. The Pistons source said the sides are "not even close" to an agreement. It's unclear what it might take to pry away Anthony.

ESPN.com reported, without citing a source, that the Pistons offered Billups and Tayshaun Prince for Anthony. But the Nuggets weren't interested. Denver countered with an offer of Allen Iverson or a package featuring Marcus Camby, but the Pistons are only interested in Anthony.

President Joe Dumars said at his season-ending news conference that he wanted to bust up his core this summer and that he was open to moving any player besides point guard Rodney Stuckey.

"There are no sacred cows here," Dumars said. "You lose that sacred-cow status when you lose three straight years" in the conference finals.

Dumars also has said he is not interested in other teams' second- or third-best players, a category into which Iverson and Camby would fall.

ESPN.com reported that Anthony is meeting with the Nuggets' front office Monday to ensure that the team is not looking to trade him. He has said he wants to stay in Denver.

The Pistons passed on Anthony in the 2003 draft, opting at No. 2 for big man Darko Milicic, who struggled and eventually was traded. Denver took Anthony at No. 3.

Anthony, a two-time All-Star, averaged 25.7 points -- fourth-most in the NBA -- this season. He has three more years guaranteed on his contract, worth $47.3 million. He also has a player's option worth $18.5 million for the 2011-12 season.

Billups signed a $60.5-million, four-year deal with a team-option fifth year last summer. He is a Denver native and played two years at the University of Colorado. He is still heavily involved in the Denver community through charitable programs.

Dumars said in early June that he did not expect to make a trade before the NBA draft, which is Thursday night.

Denver's loss IMO, it's not like they're going to get better staying the way they are...at least we could get to ECF again with our team, Denver wouldn't even make it out of the 1st rd, let alone make it to the postseason as currently constructed...

Prince is an all-star? Or is this jahnke saying that her source says the deal includes more?

Two all-stars as centerpieces in deal = Melo and Billups. Doesn't say they're both Pisstons.

touche.

LOL fuck a denver. they coulda gone with billups,iverson,tay,kmart and camby HAHAH dumb little bitches

tays officially on the block btw

everyone's officially on the block btw

Ficksed.

Bleh, i'm glad not not have melo. I just dont like his game. I like some of his stats, but the way he plays is counteractive to a team concept to me.

I don't like Melo's game either, but somebody mentioned earlier how he's a 50% shooter, so that proves he's not a 'chucker' which for me, means alot because i can't stand an Arenas type player who goes 4-20 every night, and I would rather have Melo on our team than Chauncey & Tay...

then you can give the full MLE to Posey or Pietrus or make a run at Childress so you can have somebody to guard LBJ or Pierce, plus Melo TORCHED the C's twice this season, he gives them problems...for whatever reasons...

According to the Freep, both teams are still negotiating. It isn't over yet.

as much as i dont like his game EITHER, we still need a go to player like him. and he's pretty big so he could help at the 4 position, not that we need any because we got our young bigs in max and amir.

id be all down for a billups for melo swap, but including tay is kinda...iffy to me.

The deal breaker is probably going to be taking K-Mart off their hands.

i'd be really excited for a Stuckey, Rip, and Melo line up. Stuckey might average 6-8 assists per game with Rip and Melo putting up 20+ a night. it would just be nice to NOT depend on you PG to score 15-20 pts a night to win. Stuckey can just work on distributing and (hopefully) pushing the tempo for more easy/fast break pts.

Here's what McCoskey has to say. Although, as a rule I never believe something when it comes only from our local media since all they try to do is put a positive spin on everything.

http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/pistonsblog/index.cfm?CFID=20752268&CFTOKEN=29691145



Have the Pistons and Nuggets talked about the possibility of trading Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince for Carmelo Anthony? Yes.

Are the talks recent and on-going? No.

Is the deal dead? Not quite, but nearly.

Here's the deal (this will be on the detnews.com website in a more formal manner later on tonight): Two weeks ago, Nuggets vice president Mark Warkentien called Pistons president Joe Dumars. A story had leaked out of Denver that the Nuggets were interested in Billups. Warkentien called initially to apologize for the information leak, but in the process, asked Dumars what it might take to pry Billups away. Dumars said, straight-up, Anthony.

They talked about that for a bit. Prince was added because, obviously, Anthony plays Prince's position. But in the end, Warkentien said the Nuggets weren't looking to move Anthony. He asked if Dumars wanted Marcus Camby or Allen Iverson. Dumars said no. If the Nuggets wanted Billups, then he wanted Anthony. That's where it ended. Two weeks ago.

Also, according to ESPN, the meeting with Carmelo/Nuggets happened and the Nugs gave him a guarantee they weren't planning on trading him.

Who knows what happens, but its starting to smell like the door's closed on this possible trade.

I sort of waffle day by day whether I want Carmelo or not, but I am intrigued by his size and ability to rebound. If Michael Curry is going to live up to his tough words (and I sense he will) it would be worth exploring to see if he could get Melo to put up a better defensive effort and crash the boards.

doesn't bother me, as to me melo is simply a chucker. he is a volume shooter and i'm not a big fan. i think he's very much overrated. JMO

Sounds familiar

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10532

doesn't bother me, as to me melo is simply a chucker. he is a volume shooter and i'm not a big fan. i think he's very much overrated. JMO

At %50 shooting, he can "chuck" all he wants...

Kobe is a volume shooter. Jordan was a volume shooter. That doesn't mean shit.

I can't even count the amount of times I've seen "chucker" thrown around on this board... not that it isn't true when it comes to some guys or anything.

Melo's agent says that the meeting with the Nuggs tomorrow is still on, but it isn't and never was about anything trade related. It's about Melo's DUI.

Again, this is according to Melo's agent, so factor the spin in there as needed.

I can't even count the amount of times I've seen "chucker" thrown around on this board... not that it isn't true when it comes to some guys or anything.


there's only so many 'chuckers' in the league...Arenas, IMO, is the king of that fraternity...


if your shooting over 50 percent, which Melo is, than your' def. not a chucker

Arenas, IMO, is the king of that fraternity...



Agreed.

there's only so many 'chuckers' in the league...Arenas, IMO, is the king of that fraternity...


if your shooting over 50 percent, which Melo is, than your' def. not a chucker
38% for the playoffs... upchuck

38% for the playoffs... upchuck

Yes...82 games in the regular season at %50, but %38 over a 4-game stretch means he's a chucker.

It had nothing to do with the fact he was facing triple-teams every play because the rest of his team mailed it in after the first 2 game, or anything...

Tayshaun shot %30 over a 6 game stretch against Boston. I guess he's a much worse chucker than Melo.

deals pretty much dead.

deals pretty much dead.

Unlikely, but it could be smokescreen. Nobody knows.

I don't like Melo's game either, but somebody mentioned earlier how he's a 50% shooter
in a faster offense yea. But we'll never run our offense as fast as dungver did(thank goodness too, because they suffered hard on defense for it). In reality he's not as good as 50 percent shooting in half court, which is why he's mostly looked like dog piss in some games where they took away the fastbreak. Half court game also exposes his weak defense. Melo is an exceptional talent and a good scorer, but I prefer to buy the live footage over the stats from situation nothing like ours.



Yes...82 games in the regular season at %50, but %38 over a 4-game stretch means he's a chucker.
I agree that basing it on 4 games is bad. But if anyone has seen him play consistently you'd see that he does chuck up dumb ass shots quite a bit in half court. Of course these past couple years dungver has been run or die and he's benefited from it with easier transition chances. I just dont think we'd get that from him here.

38% for the playoffs... upchuck
defense gets better in the playoffs for some teams and then you half to score in the half court or atleast play defense. Melo and Dungver had neither covered.

If talks are indeed dead, Dumars probably calls Houston tomorrow to ask about TMac. That's probably #2 on his shopping list.

i don't go by stats. i go by what i see. melo gets a bunch of easy buckets on dunks, alley oops and fastbreaks in their offense. good for him. he can score.

but when i WATCH him i see someone with poor shot selection and a guy who is not very good in the halfcourt. not as good as his numbers would indicate at least.

when i call someone a 'chucker' i'm referring to shot selection. he chucks up bad shots all too often IMO when a smarter basketball play should be made.

i see him as another antoine walker- sure he can put up some numbers but he'll never be a true difference maker IMO as he is not a well rounded player and doesn't have a very high basketball IQ.

I remember that Melo used to get compared to Glenn Robinson on Pistons boards.

Their stats (and seemingly their mental make-up) are quite similar.

:dana:


CHAUNCEY'S CALL?
ESPN.com is reporting that the Pistons offered Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince for Carmelo Anthony and got rejected. it's uncertain if that was the package discussed but the Pistons are apparently very interested in Anthony. President of basketball operations Joe Dumars said he would target opponents' top player and Anthony might be the one who's most available.

This smells of something a little different. Is Chauncey pushing to go back home?
You read the tea leaves. The day after the Pistons were eliminated, Billups said he would try to rest up his sore hamstring and get ready for the Olympics. A few days before that 12-man roster is unveiled, he pulls out.

Was he told by the powers that be he wasn't going to be chosen? Billups cited undisclosed family reasons but it's fair to wonder if he knew he wasn't making the team and was given a face-saving alternative. If he's really dealing with a major family issue, perhaps it's something that makes him want to stay in Denver on a more regular basis.

I doubt his name would be thrown around in trade discussions with any other club. Billups still does major charity work in Denver and maybe he simply wants to go home.

Remember, when the Pistons re-signed him last summer, the intent was to have him retire as a Piston. Just a year later, his name is mentioned prominently in trade discussions. I doubt the Pistons have soured on his leadership skills that much.

Certainly, the emergence of Rodney Stuckey makes him more expendable but I still like the combo of Billups-Stuckey better than Stuckey-Rip Hamilton.

As stated in previous blogs, I'm not sold on Anthony being the answer. No doubt, he can score in bunches. But I still question his toughness, defense and character. He's going to court Tuesday for his DUI case, an incident that occured just before the playoffs. Is he the type of guy who can lead your team?

Perhaps Dumars is counting on his new no-nonsense coach, Michael Curry, to nudge Anthony toward a more mature outlook.

First, the Nuggets have to be willing to deal him. And that's not certain by any means. They'd rather change their roster around Anthony, rather than subtracting him from the mix.

I guarantee that if the Shock offered Denver Deanna Nolan for Melo, they would've accepted.

in a faster offense yea. But we'll never run our offense as fast as dungver did(thank goodness too, because they suffered hard on defense for it). In reality he's not as good as 50 percent shooting in half court, which is why he's mostly looked like dog piss in some games where they took away the fastbreak. Half court game also exposes his weak defense. Melo is an exceptional talent and a good scorer, but I prefer to buy the live footage over the stats from situation nothing like ours.
.

pace of the game doesn't matter, when your the majority part of your teams offensive output, and your making half your shots, especially since he's not a big, that's impressive

Certainly, the emergence of Rodney Stuckey makes him more expendable but I still like the combo of Billups-Stuckey better than Stuckey-Rip Hamilton.

The main reason Glenn posted the article.

i don't go by stats. i go by what i see. melo gets a bunch of easy buckets on dunks, alley oops and fastbreaks in their offense. good for him. he can score.

He only averages 3.2 points per game on dunks. He gets the biggest chunk of his scoring on jumpers, and he shoots a better percentage on his jumpers than Tayshaun Prince.

Perhaps you should have watched him a little closer?

what about layups? got those numbers?

also, is there a stat for the bad shots attempted? i don't care quite frankly what the stats say. the guy has a low basketball IQ and takes bad shots at the worst times. yes, i'm generalising. but i've seen plenty of it from him.

he's so streaky and prone to bad shots that i'm not a fan of his. to me he's a greedy player who has a low basketball IQ. i don't see him making game winning plays as much as i see him putting up stats. there's a difference and i call it the antoine walker effect. sure he can put up the stats but i really don't think he would make our team a whole lot better.

obviously we both view him differently and that won't change. if you're asking whether he can score for us, yes- the kid can put the ball in the bucket. but can he fit into the team structure we have and be a well rounded player who does more to help his team win?

i don't think he fits near as well as some others believe. i think he will be exposed as a one-dimensional player, more or less, and will not compliment the team we have. JMO

http://www.82games.com/0708/07DEN9A.HTM

That will show you the number of points per game Anthony gets from dunks, tips, close, and jumpshots. And if I recall correctly, two seasons ago Anthony had the most game winning shots in the league (or maybe it was that he was the best "crunch time" performer in the league). http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

pace of the game doesn't matter,
You lost me right there, its one of the most important things in basketball imo. What pace you run, what pace you are built for, and what pace is important in controlling tempo. You can't control the pace unless you execute in your pace. Meaning that if we are a defensive mid tempo team, we need everyone to commit to defense and executing within the offense. Whether melo is bad as he has looked at numerous times on defense is not certain, what is to me is his lack of commitment on that end. furthermore the tantrums have a lot bigger worry than sheed's, forget tech limit, he could miss games off jump because like stackhouse he let's his temper get to him on a physical level rather than emotional. All that would be an ok risk if he wasn't looking to be a franchise player. Personally i wouldnt have faith in a team he was leading even in a shared role with Stuckey or whoever. The DUI's and off the court issues are something i look past on a role player, not a guy you trade two core players for.

not to even speak of the 'bitch slap and run' incident.

You lost me right there, its one of the most important things in basketball imo. What pace you run, what pace you are built for, and what pace is important in controlling tempo. You can't control the pace unless you execute in your pace. Meaning that if we are a defensive mid tempo team, we need everyone to commit to defense and executing within the offense. Whether melo is bad as he has looked at numerous times on defense is not certain, what is to me is his lack of commitment on that end. furthermore the tantrums have a lot bigger worry than sheed's, forget tech limit, he could miss games off jump because like stackhouse he let's his temper get to him on a physical level rather than emotional. All that would be an ok risk if he wasn't looking to be a franchise player. Personally i wouldnt have faith in a team he was leading even in a shared role with Stuckey or whoever. The DUI's and off the court issues are something i look past on a role player, not a guy you trade two core players for.



so would you suggest that if Carmelo Anthony came to Detroit, he would not be a 50% FG shooter since we play the slowest pace in the league??? If anything, since Denver played a far quicker pace than we did, it forced Melo to take far more shots, and the more shots you take, odds are the lower your FG% is going to be, especially if your a player with the range Melo has...thus with the pace the Nuggets play at, having taken so many 'extra' shots, he still nailed half of 'em, which to me is pretty damn impressive...

I don't think Melo would come here and be the leader of the team...I think he'd have to come here as an unselfish star who will do anything for a title (such as KG, or Ray from last year)

the only question i have with melo is I doubt, since he's never even come close to winning a title, he's as hungry as say KG or Ray Allen were last year, to win a title...

so would you suggest that if Carmelo Anthony came to Detroit, he would not be a 50% FG shooter since we play the slowest pace in the league??? If anything, since Denver played a far quicker pace than we did, it forced Melo to take far more shots, and the more shots you take, odds are the lower your FG% is going to be, especially if your a player with the range Melo has...thus with the pace the Nuggets play at, having taken so many 'extra' shots, he still nailed half of 'em, which to me is pretty damn impressive...

I don't think Melo would come here and be the leader of the team...I think he'd have to come here as an unselfish star who will do anything for a title (such as KG, or Ray from last year)

the only question i have with melo is I doubt, since he's never even come close to winning a title, he's as hungry as say KG or Ray Allen were last year, to win a title...

so would you suggest that if Carmelo Anthony came to Detroit, he would not be a 50% FG shooter since we play the slowest pace in the league???
Not what I said, I said he wouldn't be a 50 percent shooter because outside of fastbreak offense he is not a 50 percent shooter. in the half court he's streaky, kinda like stackhouse to some extent. Also we do not run the slowest pace in the league, i said mid tempo. The slowest pace in the league is run by cleveland.


If anything, since Denver played a far quicker pace than we did, it forced Melo to take far more shots, and the more shots you take, odds are the lower your FG% is going to be, especially if your a player with the range Melo has...thus with the pace the Nuggets play at, having taken so many 'extra' shots, he still nailed half of 'em, which to me is pretty damn impressive...
No its not. More shots mean nothing if they are easier fastbreak mostly shots. Iversons fg percentage jumped up from borderline 40 percent to 45 p-46 percent in the speedy tempo, was he better than before or was he getting easier shots in a quicker offense?


I don't think Melo would come here and be the leader of the team...I think he'd have to come here as an unselfish star who will do anything for a title (such as KG, or Ray from last year)

You trade two team captains for a guy, he'll be looked upon to lead. And Melo has the unfortunate ambition for leadership in the sake of bigger contracts. You can't want more money and not lead. Unless we are giving the whole team to Sheed or Rip, he'll be looked upon to lead period.

Also if you tricked yourself into thinking kg isnt a leader along with ray allen on that celts squad, kudos on that fiction. who ran player huddles? KG. Who ran the defensive communication? KG. He came in as leader from the jump and was looked at it as such. But unlike melo he's fairly clean and more trustworthy franchise player department.



the only question i have with melo is I doubt, since he's never even come close to winning a title, he's as hungry as say KG or Ray Allen were last year, to win a title...
Based on his defensive commitment, temper, and minimal effort for team basketball i'll say the hunger is about as big as it was for Al Harrington when he was all the rave around here.

Don't close case on 'Melo just yet
BY DREW SHARP • FREE PRESS COLUMNIST • June 24, 2008

Carmelo Anthony's representatives insist that the Denver Nuggets' enigmatic star isn't going anywhere, especially Detroit. They've supposedly gotten assurances from management. Promises were made.

And it all means ... nothing.

I still don't see Anthony in Denver come fall when the NBA tips off a new season.

What people do privately is more important than what they say publicly. And the Nuggets aren't casually dismissing the Pistons as a potential trade suitor despite all the public deflecting. Such speculation doesn't nurture within a vacuum. It's usually grounded in more than a few grains of truth.

Anthony told reporters Monday at the announcement of the roster for the U.S. Olympic men's basketball team he's confident he'll remain in Denver.

But I still believe the odds of Anthony becoming a Piston are better than decent because once all the bluster subsides, both sides will realize there's an opportunity for mutual gain.

Anthony has issues. He appears in court today on a highly publicized charge of suspicion of drunken driving . If true, maybe it was only a momentarily stupid indiscretion. Maybe it's something more. Who knows? The Nuggets have suspended him for the first two games next season because of the arrest. He embarrassed himself a year ago during an altercation against the New York Knicks when he jumped into a fray, slapped another player and immediately -- and gutlessly -- backed away. And playing defense is like an allergic reaction.

But despite the concerns, despite a checkered beginning, Anthony could thrive with the Pistons because joining the team provides a different environment, perhaps one that better meshes with a basketball personality the 24-year-old is still figuring out.

It'll be up to Anthony.

If he wants to become a Piston, he'll become one.

We'll discover plenty about his character and commitment to placing himself in the best possible atmosphere for seriously contending for a championship. We'll learn if he wants to take the safe route or if he's willing to chance an unpredictable detour.

If Anthony wants stardom, he'll stay in Denver.

It's easy being an NBA star. There's no accountability. There's always an available excuse for failure -- it's the front office's fault for not surrounding him with the requisite talent or it's the coach's fault for not properly understanding how to best navigate the star's varying moods.

But if 'Melo truly wants to become an NBA champion, he'll understand he's more potent as a co-star sharing the galaxy than demanding he serve as the center of the universe.

But that requires swallowing some sizable ego.

And is a true "NBA star" capable of such sacrifice?

Anthony and Tayshaun Prince shared the same stage Monday, both earning a rightfully deserved place on the U.S. Olympic team in Beijing this August. The irony of the occasion was that any Pistons trade offer for Anthony would certainly involve Prince.

That's only fair, right?

If you're trading an Olympian, shouldn't you receive an Olympian in return?

Prince's value was finally validated with his Olympic designation. The Americans' inability to create a true team, encompassing individual stars with specific roles, has been their detriment in recent international competition. His versatility, without demanding a set number of shots, makes him important on the national team.

It also makes Prince a target of criticism in this town. He's wrongly perceived as offensively limited because he deferred to other scoring options with the Pistons. He's ripped for not being selfish enough while Anthony's attacked for being too selfish.

But the reason both are highly attractive in trade discussions is that both possess an upside, which means that what you've seen before isn't necessarily what they might become.

Contact DREW SHARP at 313-223-4055 or dsharp@freepress.com.

Today's rumor de jour: Chauncey and Sheed to Golden State for Baron and Harrington:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_9686357

If GS threw in the 14th pick, I'd do it.

If they didn't though, I'd look elsewhere.

golden state is my most favorite team to watch and i probably seen more warrior games than pistons this season..but bdiddy? injury prone and got benched at the end of the season for chucking too much.

is this really what sheed and billups can bring us..only bdiddy and al harrington?

People overrate the value of a lot of our players. That's why I was thrilled with the idea of getting melo, who has the market trade value of at least 3 of our starters.

Sheed's value took a humongous dump when SAS said that Sheed is going to retire at the end of this season. He's little more than an expiring deal now, and nobody's going to want him at the deadline other than for his contract.

Baron and Harrington are both still in their 20's. They're younger and more athletic than Sheed/Chauncey.

Harrington actually has a game that translates much better to a halfcourt tempo. Baron on the other hand, I don't know.

All the same, I'd try to squeeze the 14th pick out of GS, or I'd say no and move on.

Al Harrington is coming off a lousy season though...if we did that trade we would still have to look for a better starter in the front court...IMO

Al has never been more than a 6th man, even when he was with Indy, and obviously his numbers are a bit inflated since he plays in Don Nelson's run and gun offense...

well harringtons coming off a bad season because at times he'd start and at times he'd play 12 minutes a game. but like you said, he's nothing more than a perfect 6th man. remember the off season we lost ben? resign ben and sign al=champion ship. so much for that.

i'd be thrilled if we could get biedrins though. a rebounder.

Trading to trade is just wrong. And taking on those two would be pretty much that. I dont think they make us better in exchange for what they get, nor do i think it makes sense for don nelson who needs fresh legs running up and down the court. Baron is alot like CBill used to be in shooting at the wrong time. But not as good in running an offense.

I like harrington, if he ever got his slow ass in shape to play SF on defense. I'd prefer to give up less to take a flyer on a guy who really hasn't been consistent as of late. But i do like his game.


Baron and Harrington are both still in their 20's. They're younger and more athletic than Sheed/Chauncey.
Harrington is a sludge imo. Not really athletic, but very skilled in the post. And Davis is not the Athlete he once was in speed. Much like billups he uses strength and a sharp first step to get to to the hole, is not that fast anymore.

Either way i appreciate Joe D taking a look at every deal possible. Just hope he doesnt bite on anything too hasty. But I appreciate the shopping around.

shoot- i didn't hear SAS say that about sheed. i must've missed it. anyone have the exact quote.....?

Trading to trade is just wrong.


I agree, especially when you consider that our roster right now, is top 5 in the league and top two in the East...

Making that trade with Golden State wouldn't put us 'over the top' or change our current position by any means...and if anything it shortens our window since Baron is probably gonna walk after '09 anyway...

I'd rather keep our core and use the MLE wisely than do this deal heading into October...

Note on Baron trade potential: A report that Baron’s supremely unlikely to use the opt-out IS NOT THE SAME THING as Davis and his agent providing written notification to the Warriors he’s not opting out. Therefore: The Warriors cannot trade Baron until after July 9–presuming that’s being contemplated–or unless he provides official written notification before June 30 Which he won’t. So: Baron’s not getting traded draft night or in the days immediately following.

No shocks, no earthquake-preparedness drills, no shrieks in the night on this news. But still all nods to Lepper with the scoopage on Baron Davis’ almost certain decision not to opt-out by Monday’s deadline.

He’ll have to make due with the $17.8M left on his contract through the 2008-2009 season and somehow, yes, I think BD will manage.

He also might ask–either quietly or BD mega-phone style–to be traded at some point assuming he still hasn’t landed a humongous extension or the promise of one, and I am betting the request could happen somewhere right around the All-Star Break.

Lepper also tosses out some thoughts about Detroit wanting to move some players and Baron being a potential candidate to move to the Motor City… and Al Harrington possibly wanting out… Interesting, interesting, as I told G-Lepp just a few hours ago.

Interesting, but…

Sure, major stuff is brewing. But I don’t think any Baron trade is going happen any time soon.

Face it: Baron + Harrington for Rasheed Wallace + Chauncey BIllups with all kinds of throw-ins on both sides… that’s just too neat and simple to work and frankly I think it makes both teams a little worse.

I realize Detroit could want to make room for Rodney Stuckey. I realize Rasheed might need a new spot. I realize Baron might be workable for Detroit on the one-year deal. (Same with Rasheed for the Warriors. OK, yes, I know the Warriors have always liked Rasheed. Gives me a headache everytime I think about it, but yes.)

But again: I don’t think it really helps either team other than for sheer shock-wave purposes and at some point, you don’t do things just for the shockage.

I think Baron will at least start the season with the Warriors. Whether he does so happily or not, it’s really up to him and it really won’t change anything. The Warriors are being smart. Baron is being smart–he couldn’t have opted out because there just wasn’t the money out there in an open market.

He has to have a great year, he has to finish strong (unlike ‘07-08) and he has to see what he can get next off-season. Or see if he can’t work himself a trade to LA, Miami, Detroit or wherever else he can get himself some more money.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/06/24/baron-davis-accepts-the-inevitable-no-opt-out-for-you/

yea it does make teams worse so dont pull the trigger

:mccosky:


Nothing to Davis rumor
Pay no attention to the report out of Oakland that the Pistons and Warriors talked about a deal that would send Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups to Golden State for Baron Davis. That deal was a total fabrication, nothing of the sort was ever discussed.

LMAO

What does he think Dumars does all day long?

What does he think Dumars does all day long?

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/image.php?u=413&dateline=1214323333

Oh, The Moustache...

Unless McCosky breaks the rumor, it's not real. Anything else he's denying.

This summer has been one big sniping match between McCosky, Krista and ASB. Everything they write is a thinly veiled shot at one of the others.

MEANWHILE, LANGLOIS RULES

My buddy, a Denver fan, says he's hearing Rasheed and Prince for Baron and Harrington. That's gotta be a bunch of crap, IMO.

Also, ESPN is apparently going to say something about the GSW rumor in a second here.

Meh, ESPN just reported on the Contra-Costa Times article. Behind as usual.

Here's a new one...


Toronto is also interested in Detroit's Richard Hamilton, but the Pistons would be more willing to deal if Jose Calderon was substituted for Ford.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10877200

Rip for Ford?

Now that makes a bit more sense to me (especially with Rip's ETO next summer).

Our three guard rotation becomes Chauncey, Stuckey and TJ Ford.

Ford and Chauncey can split time at PG (based on matchups) and Stuckey gets Rip's starting slot. Chauncey can also slide over to Sg and backup Stuckey.

I'm sure there are other parts, but I'm intrigued by this one.

So the no.17 pick, Rasho, and Calderon?

The Golden State rumor is the only one I've liked so far. Harrington's bad season came because they were trying to turn him into everything I've come to hate about Sheed. That tall spread the court 3-pt machine. Let the man play inside with the OCCASIONAL

(don't know what happened)

occasional 3. Baron is the freaking man. Seriously. Team him up with someone who moves like Rip and give him the kind of rest Stuckey will provide and we're set.

I don't think Tdot is parting with Calderon.

It's probably Ford & #17 for Rip.

Rasho's inclusion (salary) doesn't really fit here.

Your quote says Dumars wants Calderon.

And of course, you like the idea of trading our only SG for another PG.

Don't think I like the thought trading Rip, unless it nets us a SG who can put the ball on the floor and get to the hoop while still being a decent shooting threat.

Your quote says Dumars wants Calderon.




No, it says they'd be more willing if Toronto would include Calderon instead of Ford, which means that the offer probably includes Ford.

The offer does include Ford, read the articles you post.

And of course, you like the idea of trading our only SG for another PG.

Yes, shame on me for wanting a playmaking PG that can penetrate and get others easy shots.

Yes, shame on me for wanting a playmaking PG that can penetrate.

We already have Rodney Stuckey...

The last thing this team needs is another point guard. Trade one we already have for one if you have to, but don't trade someone else on the roster for another freaking PG.

Shame indeed.

The offer does include Ford, read the articles you post.

lol, I only say "probably" because I can't say "definitely", nice one, though.

We already have Rodney Stuckey...



Looks like I edited a millisecond too late.

re: Rip as our "only" SG

Stuckey, Billups and Afflalo can all play SG, maybe even Tay. And we still have Acker's rights, too.

And then you have #17, #29 and #59 to draft some more if you guys really want to.

This is fun.

edit: Juan Dixon would hang out if we asked him to, as well. Hell, we can field a whole team of SGs.

Wait, so Stuckey can't start at PG but you are totally cool with Afflalo starting at SG? Where did I say that Afflalo would start at SG?

Also, you do realize that if Chauncey is playing SG then Stuckey will be playing PG? I can't believe you are advocating that. When Chauncey is playing SG, Ford is playing PG.

Also, if we have Tay taking major minutes at SG who is playing SF? Max? Where are we getting that 20ppg that Rip leaves. Again, where did I say "major minutes"? I listed him as one of like 8 options and that is what you are going to twist?

This is fun. *blows Fool a kiss*

Wait, so Stuckey can't start at PG but you are totally cool with Afflalo starting at SG?

Also, you do realize that if Chauncey is playing SG then Stuckey will be playing PG? I can't believe you are advocating that.

Also, if we have Tay taking major minutes at SG who is playing SF? Max? Where are we getting that 20ppg that Rip leaves.

This is fun.

So we trade our SG so we can draft a SG at #17 or #29? I'm sure they will contribute instantly.

And yes, if we lose Rip for Ford we will have to platoon all those PGs at SG. I'm sure you will love all the playmaking from out 3 PG rotation.

"A whole team of SGs", none of which are actually SGs. That'll be great to watch.

[The "edit" and "quote" buttons are too close together]

No, we trade our starting SG because he can possibly leave us next year and we'd get nothing in return and we have a suitable replacement waiting in the wings who would be part of a nice 3 guard rotation, one that nearly every team in the league would love to have.

And if you think Stuckey and Billups can't be quality SGs then I just think you are wrong. My opinion.

As far as the "whole team of SGs" goes, that was obviously an exaggeration.

I see Mr. Literal has made an appearance.

Joe Dumars would laugh in the face of the toronto raptors if they came to him with a ford (or calderon) trade in exchange for Rip Hamilton who happens to be the best 2-guard in the league when it comes to playing off the ball something that many people undervalue.

That is a god awful rumor. I'm going to pretend that I never read that.

I bet if we throw in Sheed they will give us Calderon. Then when they trade for JO we can start a team of SGs and they can start a team of PFs.

You are the only person in the WORLD who is worried about Rip "leaving us". You realize we can pay him the most and Dumars has never had 1 bad thing to say about him right?

It's not that I don't think they can play @ SG, its that I think its dumb to make a trade that FORCES them to play @ SG. When your best option at a position is to move a starter out of their natural position, you're doing something wrong.

I bet if we throw in Sheed they will give us Calderon. Then when they trade for JO we can start a team of SGs and they can start a team of PFs.

W

E

A

K

About as strong as the "Rip might leave, lets trade him first!" campaign.

Joe Dumars would laugh in the face of the toronto raptors if they came to him with a ford (or calderon) trade in exchange for Rip Hamilton who happens to be the best 2-guard in the league when it comes to playing off the ball something that many people undervalue.

That is a god awful rumor. I'm going to pretend that I never read that.

Who is suggesting that it's just Ford (or Calderon) for Rip?

I think everyone knows that Toronto would have to sweeten the pot more.

About as strong as the "Rip might leave, lets trade him first!" campaign.

Is it a "campaign" or is it something that a GM actually (gasp) needs to consider and factor in to decisions?

It's not that I don't think they can play @ SG, its that I think its dumb to make a trade that FORCES them to play @ SG. When your best option at a position is to move a starter out of their natural position, you're doing something wrong.

How different is that than FORCING Stuckey to play PG?

And what is Stuckey's "natural position"?

Completely different.

In the sane case, the GM thinks his newly drafted player is so good he will be more effective at a position of more responsibility.

In the insane case, you want to make a trade that moves a guy who won a Finals MVP at PG to SG for half of every game.

Is it a "campaign" or is it something that a GM actually (gasp) needs to consider and factor in to decisions?

Billups and Tayshaun might die tomorrow (gasp), should the GM actually consider trading them too?

Billups and Tayshaun might die tomorrow (gasp), should the GM actually consider trading them too?
You're being silly again, aren't you? If Billups or Tayshaun dying was as likely as a free agent leaving the team, then yes, treat them the same.


In the insane case, you want to make a trade that moves a guy who won a Finals MVP at PG to SG for half of every game.

He's a combo guard. It's not sacrilege to have him play some SG. In fact, I believe that Joe has basically said as much (through Langlois).

It is as likely, THAT'S THE POINT.

And acting like trading our only SG for a 3rd starting calibur PG is simply having Billups "play some SG" is a joke.

Who is suggesting that it's just Ford (or Calderon) for Rip?

I think everyone knows that Toronto would have to sweeten the pot more.

And that's what makes the mere mention of such a trade as this so asinine. There's absolutely nothing that the raptors could sweeten the deal with (other than bosh which isn't going to happen) that would make the pistons even consider trading rip for the garbage that is the rest of the raptors roster.

This deal was pulled directly from the ass of a raptors' fan who heard that everyone on the pistons was on the trading block and realizes that the raptors have really shitty shooting guards.

It's garbage.

It is as likely, THAT'S THE POINT.

:dismissed:

Name one person who thinks Rip will leave other than yourself.

Name one person who thinks Rip will leave other than yourself.
You don't seem to be able to draw a distinction between "thinking he will leave" and "thinking he might leave".

Did you think Ben Wallace would leave?

I don't need to look to other's opinions to justify my own, but thanks.

Tayshaun
Joe Asberry, Laxation, micknugget, RegicideGreg, theMUHMEshow, Wizzle 6 28.57%
Chauncey
BubblesTheLion, Joe Asberry, longshanks, Matt, micknugget, surlybird 6 28.57%
Rip
JickBoy34 1 4.76%
Sheed
BubblesTheLion, defrocked, Glenn, Higherwarrior, Laxation, mercury, micknugget, Moodini31, RegicideGreg, Sir Douche Baggins, slydiggity, surlybird, Vinny, WTFchris 14 66.67%
All four will be back

you only asked for one

also, sorry

fuck TJ Ford, he'll just hurt his neck again...

no offense, but he's just a bad omen

plus, I don't think Rip will exercise his ETO if Chauncey's still here...

You don't seem to be able to draw a distinction between "thinking he will leave" and "thinking he might leave".

Did you think Ben Wallace would leave?

I don't need to look to other's opinions to justify my own, but thanks.
Really, you want to use Wallace in your defense? Is Rip on the decline all of a sudden? Does another team value Rip more than us? Is Rip's primary quality one that's hard to quantify and compare throughout the league?

Maybe you should start.

Really, you want to use Wallace in your defense? Is Rip on the decline all of a sudden? Does another team value Rip more than us? Is Rip's primary quality one that's hard to quantify and compare throughout the league?


The reasons for him to consider leaving may differ, but it's all about money in the end.

The reasons for him to consider leaving may differ, but it's all about money in the end.


BULLSHIT!

Everyone can scrap all the Toronto crap, the deal is done with Jermaine O'Neal going there for that package - NOT Rip Hamilton.

Which means the most so-called "LEGIT" rumor is still Chauncey and Sheed for Baron and Harrington. Everything else is meaningless at this point.

fuck TJ Ford, he'll just hurt his neck again...

no offense, but he's just a bad omen
he'll fit in good with tinsley.

This thread title is misleading. I learned nothing.

I think there should be sub forums for legit and speculative fantasy trade rumors which should be policed and moved accordingly at a moments notice.

With Steven A. quoting a Piston source as saying "no way in hell is Joe going to go for that deal" (refering to the BD & Harrington deal)... it looks like there are NO legit trade rumors right now... the media is full of shit as usual... Joe ain't letting his intentions leak when it comes to trades... we'll be caught by surprise once again.... projecting Joe's intentions is a futile effort.

yet still ESPN runs that the Pistons have interest in Baron on their bottom line...

With Steven A. quoting a Piston source as saying "no way in hell is Joe going to go for that deal" (refering to the BD & Harrington deal)... it looks like there are NO legit trade rumors right now... the media is full of shit as usual... Joe ain't letting his intentions leak when it comes to trades... we'll be caught by surprise once again.... projecting Joe's intentions is a futile effort.
well the one issue is other teams arent as secretive as Joe D. So I'm sure its the other teams leaking info as they normally do.

Yeah, I think a lot of selective leaking may be going on right now.

I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto leaked the Rip/Ford stuff yesterday to put pressure on Indy.

The reasons for him to consider leaving may differ, but it's all about money in the end.

And no one can pay him more than us.

How many times do you want to go around on this circle?

We can keep going if you'd like.

"Nobody can pay him more" doesn't mean that somebody won't pay him more than Joe/Davidson is willing to.

Which goes right back to "no one values Rip more than Joe who's always praised him and never included him in the 'these guys are unmotivated' camp." Like I said, a circle.

This is getting boring.

We can keep going if you'd like.

"Nobody can pay him more" doesn't mean that somebody won't pay him more than Joe/Davidson is willing to.
But that's pretty hypothetical, unless you have proof of Joe or Davidson saying fuck Rip.

No, we only have proof of Joe/Davidson being "fiscally responsible".

If someone makes a crazy offer (ala Ben) then Rip is fully in play.

Which goes right back to "no one values Rip more than Joe who's always praised him and never included him in the 'these guys are unmotivated' camp." Like I said, a circle.

This is getting boring.

Prove that nobody values Rip more than Joe D.

You can't. You are speculating. It's not fact.

Teams are always willing to pay more to steal other team's stars.

<Sigh>


Really, you want to use Wallace in your defense? Is Rip on the decline all of a sudden? Does another team value Rip more than us? Is Rip's primary quality one that's hard to quantify and compare throughout the league?

^un:cogent:

1) Stop editing your posts after I've posted.

2) How would you like me to prove the beliefs of 29 GMs.

3) How about you list the incredibly long list of teams that "stole" other team's players. Players that were happy with their current teams and had GMs who weren't trying to go in another direction.

1) Stop editing your posts after I've posted.


Yeah, only a dickhead does that. Stop it, Glenn.

No, we only have proof of Joe/Davidson being "fiscally responsible".

If someone makes a crazy offer (ala Ben) then Rip is fully in play.
ok but thats even more hypothetical, nothing to lean on as legitimate argument. Fool stated a fact that no one can pay him more than us, you can get hypothetical about whether we do, but its purely that w/o any proof that we'd pass on resigning him or that any team right now is looking to make an overly lucrative offer to Rip, who is viewed as a one dimensional SG by most teams(though i dont think he is).

1) Stop editing your posts after I've posted. I don't do that (with intent). If you are afraid that an edit might change something, quote me.

2) How would you like me to prove the beliefs of 29 GMs. You can't, that's the point.

3) How about you list the incredibly long list of teams that "stole" other team's players. Players that were happy with their current teams and had GMs who weren't trying to go in another direction. Now you are not only assuming that Rip is happy, but that he'd stay happy potentially in the face of a larger offer. Do we KNOW that he and Curry get along? And are you sure Joe isn't going in another direction? He's going to shuffle the deck, nobody knows who is staying and who is going. Not even you.

Prove anything you are arguing.

Oh wait, you aren't arguing you are only thinking through. And you aren't even stating what you are really thinking, you are only making couched statements about your thought experiments. You don't actually want any of what you are saying to happen you are just putting it out there. But not really "it" because you are couching "it". You are putting "things" out there. Considerable things. Ideas. Like trading up into the lottery with the #17 and #29. Not that you want that to happen. Just that its an idea. Not that you need to read anything into it.

Purposely edited after your post.

Prove anthing you are arguing.

I can prove that they are all possible scenarios.

That's all I am saying.

" we are the world......we are the children....."

everybody now!

:chad:


Updated: June 26 -- 2:11 p.m. ET

The Wizards have been talking with several teams about trading down in the draft.

Talks with the Pistons last night ended up going nowhere.

The latest has them talking about a swap with the Rockets that would send No. 18 to Houston and No. 25 to Washington.

Here's a good one...


-Memphis is in the words of one NBA executive “doing everything in their power to trade their pick.” The team doesn’t have any real preference regarding where they are heading in, as they are “calling everybody in the league,” looking to move up or down, trying to get veterans primarily, while also possibly trying to move down. One trade that they reportedly offered was Mike Conley to Portland in exchange for the #13 pick, Sergio Rodriguez and Travis Outlaw. Another offer was to Detroit: the #5 and filler for Rodney Stuckey, which was rejected. If Memphis keeps the pick, we’re hearing they like Eric Gordon, as well as Kevin Love.

" we are the world......we are the children....."

everybody now!

We are the ones who make a brighter day, so let's start giving...

Here's a good one...

What's his source?... if true the Grizz are basically saying they F'ed up with Conley ahead of Stuckey... I can't honestly think of NE1 at #5 that would be a better option than Stuck.

We are the ones who make a brighter day, so let's start giving...

There's a choice we're makin'....

(someone better keep this going)

"we're saving our own lives"......?

lol

Bill Walker is so good the Wizards just sold him to Boston....

well the draft was a waste of time, none of these guys will be a solid rotation player. Back to the trades.

Joe seems convinced Sharpe will be.

He's seen more of this kid than any of us, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

A 6'10" 240-lb small forward is an intriguing thought.

wow. i wish i had access to the summer league games. i'm dying to see this kid.

I'm not gonna lie, a 6'10'' SF is pretty intriguing, but my guess is he's so incredibly raw and unpolished, that it's not worth getting excited about just for this season...

My guess is, he plays about as much as Amir did his rookie season...


Maybe I'm wrong, I would glady eat crow if I am...

wow. i wish i had access to the summer league games. i'm dying to see this kid.


just go on that channel surfing website somebody mentioned in one of the other forums, I think that thing had NBA TV on it...

it was like channelsurfing.net or something...

is there really no trade news out there? what happened?? come baaack wild-out-there trade rumors, come baaaack.

Starting tomorrow, there can't be any trades until July 9 (there is a moritorium on trades while the NBA figures out the cap/tax numbers for this year).

Not sure if that has anything to do with the lack of rumors or not.

Our best bet for trade rumors now is talk of interest in RFA's that could be potential sign-and-trade candidates. Not that I think that's going anywhere, but the fact that Joe is all trade and no sign otherwise makes this time dead to us.

Could we really all ride together?

:langlois:


Pistons could be answer for Warriors' woes

It’s been nearly a week now since Golden State got blindsided by Baron Davis opting out of his contract one day and agreeing to sign the next with the Los Angeles Clippers. The surprising thing is that there hasn’t been any speculation that the Warriors would put in a phone call to Joe Dumars and ask about Chauncey Billups.

But don’t be shocked if you hear that suggested – it makes too much sense to not draw heavy consideration.

The Warriors have the pieces in place to contend in the West if they can adequately replace their point guard and lock up their own young unrestricted free agents, Andris Biedrins and Monta Ellis. They got off to a horrible start last season as Stephen Jackson served a seven-game suspension, but still wound up winning 48 games in the ultracompetitive Western Conference and nearly made the playoffs again.

Golden State is at something of a crossroads this summer, but it’s now awash in cap space – and if the Warriors could put a package together that would entice the Pistons sufficiently to part with Billups, they’d be saving about $6 million at point guard alone. Davis was due to make $17 million next season and Billups is coming in at about $11 million.

What could Golden State offer the Pistons? My guess is the Warriors would start with Al Harrington, a 10-year veteran who’s still just 28 years old. Harrington has sometimes been the odd man out in Don Nelson’s system, which isn’t a great fit for his talents, yet he still averaged 13.6 points and 5.4 rebounds in 27 minutes a game last season. When Harrington was with Indiana, he was often a player who gave the Pistons matchup problems. A bit of a tweener, the 6-foot-9, 250-pound Harrington can overpower many small forwards and has become a proficient 3-point shooter, as well. Two years ago with Atlanta, he averaged 18.6 points and 6.9 rebounds.

Moreover, Harrington is somewhat expendable now that the Warriors have drafted two athletic hybrid forwards in the past two drafts, Brandan Wright in 2007 and Anthony Randolph just last month. In addition, Golden State picked up power forward Richard Hendrix in the second round, so its frontcourt is getting a little crowded.

The other possibility, though a little less logical, is Jackson. The Warriors would have a harder time replacing him, since both Mickael Pietrus – also a potential Pistons target – and Matt Barnes are unrestricted free agents unlikely to return to Golden State. Jackson’s role in the November 2004 Palace brawl might also be problematic, though he impressed Pistons officials last summer when he served as a basketball camp instructor here as part of his community service stemming from that incident.

The Warriors would have to sweeten the deal, of course. They aren’t getting a three-time All-Star who ranks among the game’s top handful of point guards straight up for either of those players. A future No. 1 pick would be a good starting point, you’d have to think.

Would the Pistons be willing to do that? Hard to say, but they’d have to consider it. Dumars has given indications that his preference is to acquire a high-impact player. He said last month that in the first week after declaring all of his players available for the right trade that he wasn’t talking to other teams about their second- or third-best players. Jackson and Harrington were somewhere behind Davis in the Golden State pecking order – and, on some nights, behind Ellis, as well – so the deal makes more sense for the Warriors on the face of it than for the Pistons.

When Dumars made his bold proclamation on the day he let Flip Saunders go, media speculation on which of the core Pistons was most likely to be traded centered first on Rasheed Wallace. And that’s still possible, of course. But Wallace would be very tough to replace unless he was being traded for another big man. While the Pistons certainly have room for three quality guards – as Dumars said, the history of a franchise whose first two titles featured a backcourt rotation of Dumars, Isiah Thomas and Vinnie Johnson proves as much – they might decide the easiest way to accommodate Dumars’ desire to shake things up is by trading from their position of strength.

One of the reasons some media analysts thought Billups was unlikely to be traded was because of the contract he signed last summer. To the contrary, that contract is one of the more attractive things about Billups. It runs for only three more years (and a fourth only partially guaranteed) at a very reasonable number for an elite point guard. (Davis, by contrast, hasn’t played in the last four All-Star games and has long had injury and conditioning issues.)

Trading the man who has become the franchise’s most identifiable player would not be a decision taken lightly. Billups has been a bedrock since signing six summers ago as an unheralded free agent. He’s a terrific ambassador for the team and still among the most reliable clutch performers in the game. If nothing else, the Pistons would dearly miss his ability to knock down free throws in the final minute when protecting a slim lead.

But Rodney Stuckey’s breakout playoffs performance has him in line for major minutes next season. The Pistons would need to find another capable point guard if they bite the bullet and trade Billups, someone who could play 15 minutes or so at a high level, but they’d figure that out sometime between now and the February trade deadline.

In a summer of interesting possibilities, the decision by Baron Davis to bolt Golden State creates one more opportunity for Joe D to do something dramatic. From Golden State’s perspective, it makes all the sense in the world. We’ll see if this one goes anywhere.

Sacred Cows. Nice.

I don't want Jackson and although Harrington intrigues me, we already have undersized power forwards, we don't need another one. And I wouldn't trade Billups for Harrington and a first.

Unless he's playing for Don Nelson, Al Harrington is a bench player...

Stephen Jackson is basically another Rasheed, in the fact that he'll show up about 50% of the time but he's not nearly as talented as Sheed is...

IDK, one of the only players I like on the Warriors is Monta Ellis and even he has his flaws (no perimiter shot, doesn't pass much, lousy defender and he doesn't really have a position)...I don't think he's worth Chauncey personally, and GS would probably want more than that anyway via S&T

Al Harrington is the Corliss we need coming in for tay. He would be a big help. Don't think we can get him, but it would be nice.

nothing GS has appeals to me. not in a deal like that. unless it includes wright and an unprotected #1 or something. otherwise i think we're giving up something for nothing basically.

and even if we got one of their young talents, i think it's pretty bold (maybe stupid) to give up a proven allstar calibur PG for unproven projects in a hypothetical deal like i mentioned.

in reality, it's not gonna happen cause joe doesn't roll like that.

Would you trade CB for Corliss though? Your all-star starting PG for a backup 3-4?

Harrington is not a 3 anymore.

He's a jumpshooting PF, just like Sheed and Dice.

He actually played a good deal of center for the GSW.

I read that he preferred to work down low but Nelson didn't like him doing that, that's why he's shooting so many 3's. But I came here and everyone was talking SF so I just assumed I was wrong. I always remembered him playing a lot of 4 for the Pacers.

I wouldn't trade a starter for Harrington, simply put.

me neither.

He actually played a good deal of center for the GSW.
which is SF on most teams. And to be fair corliss would never play SF in GS, only PF and Center. That has more to do with them imo.

I wouldn't trade a starter for Harrington, simply put.
Nor would I, but if i could fork over a pick? Sure.

Maybe if they tossed in Marco Belinelli, I'd consider it.

(Italian bias)

and where would he fit? stuckey >>>> marco. despite him dropping 40 in a summer league game...

i dont think anyone outside of biedrins, or ellis is worth trading our starters for.

The one, the only, Patrick O. Caputo.


Where are all the big moves?

PAT CAPUTO
The Oakland Press

The Eastern Conference finals complete, and a failed venture for the third straight year, Joe Dumars sat before the media and talked a big game.

The Pistons president of basketball operations was visibly miffed about the lack of urgency his team displayed during the Eastern Conference finals. He discussed, openly, how all his core players "were in play" for trade talks after being ousted by the eventual NBA champion Boston Celtics in six games.

The implication was clear: The Pistons are going to be a much different team next season. Tougher. More unyielding. Less inconsistent. With different personnel being at the heart of the matter. Not much later, the process began. Coach Flip Saunders was fired and replaced by Michael Curry.

Since then, Dumars and the Pistons have been inconspicuous. Draft night was a big dud. All that wait and the late-night answer was Walter Sharpe? It was almost enough to make one long for the days of Mateen Cleaves and Rodney White, and wonder if the Pistons are as concerned about winning as with some sort of obsession owner William Davidson has with avoiding the luxury tax like it's the plague.

Free agency, at least so far, has fallen under the same underwhelming category. James Jones, C.J. Miles, Mickael Pietrus are the mid-level names being mentioned. Solid players, but signing any of them would be more like the Pistons upgrading from Jarvis Hayes than changing their core and getting to the meat of their problem.

If there is going to be a big move, it must come in a trade.

Speculation about Pistons trades, however, has bordered on ridiculous. Rasheed Wallace to Charlotte for Emeka Okafor. Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince to Denver for Carmelo Anthony.

Ah, didn't the Pistons pass on Carmelo in favor of Darko Milicic? Didn't they do a subtle, but well-versed, job of letting the world know why? Wasn't it not so subtle at the parade following the 2004 championship when Billups let loose the words, "Carmelo Who?"

And what about Anthony has changed any perception the Pistons had about him being "soft." Everyone knew he was an extraordinary talent, but he has shown more than a few tendencies for being "soft" as a pro. He has had embarrassing off court issues, and those on the court. Gosh, wonder what Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer would have done if one of their "Bad Boys" teammates backtracked in the middle of a fight the way Carmelo did that fateful night at Madison Square Garden.

It was to manhood what Carl Lewis' rendition of the national anthem was to music.

Thought the Pistons are trying to get tougher here?

None of it makes sense, even the Pistons apparent interest in free agent Corey Maggette. Is he really a better player than Richard Hamilton? Or have as bright a future as Rodney Stuckey?

Rasheed Wallace has badly let the Pistons down during Game 6 losses in the Eastern Conference finals the last two years. His shtick is getting stale. It doesn't diminish the fact he is better, by far, than any big man available.

Hamilton has never become the star some envisioned, while Billups may be headed on the downside of his career. They are still as good as any backcourt tandem in league. There is a reason Prince is on the U.S. Olympic team. It's because he fills a special role.

Seems like Dumars is in a pickle. Damned if he doesn't make a major move this offseason, but damned if he does.

If there is a consolation for Piston fans, it's that Dumars has done his best work under these type of circumstances.

The franchise was supposed to take a nose dive when Grant Hill departed for Orlando, but in fact getting Ben Wallace back in the deal was a saving grace. Jerry Stackhouse for Hamilton was considered an iffy trade at the time. The free agent signing off Billups barely caused a ripple. Same with the drafting of Prince and Stuckey.

It's called pulling a rabbit out of a hat. It's been Dumars' specialty.

Can he do it again with some crazy deal that ultimately proves to be anything but crazy at all?

With each sticky summer day that passes, it seems less likely. Common sense dictates Dumars shouldn't cut off his team's nose to spite its face. Or merely stay the course because it's obvious, especially with the emergence of the Celtics, the Pistons just aren't good enough as is to return to the NBA Finals.

So Joe Dumars sits in the worst place he can be.

Between a rock and a hard place, the only certain answer being uncertainty.

Pat Caputo is a senior sports reporter and a columnist for The Oakland Press. Contact him at pat.caputo@oakpress.com and read his sports blog and listen to sports podcast at Blog Central at theoaklandpress.com.

:mccosky:


Pistons update

As of 5 p.m. on Monday, everything was fairly quiet on both the trade and free agent signing front, as far as the Pistons are concerned. Don't hold your breath waiting for Corey Maggette to sign here. Joe Dumars has done his due diligence and made the proper inquiries, but it's highly unlikely he will wind up in a Pistons uniform.

Maggette wants more than the mid-level exception, first of all. The mid-level will be worth between $5.5 million and $5.8 million. If he has to "settle" for the mid-level, it sounds like his first choice would be Boston or San Antonio. His only real hope of getting more than that will be if Golden State fails on its bid to steal Elton Brand from the Clippers -- which seems likely. With Baron Davis leaving, the Warriors are suddenly awash in cap space. So, if Brand goes back to the Clippers, the Warriors could make a play for Maggette. If that scenario happens, perhaps -- and again, this is a big perhaps -- the Pistons could get involved with the Warriors.

Stay with me here: The Warriors have been trying to unload Al Harrington (two years left worth about $20 million) and they need a point guard. The Pistons could offer Chauncey Billups, but they would want a lot more than Harrington back in return. The Pistons have NOT discussed this scenario with the Warriors, and they have never been overly infatuated with Harrington. So, depending who else came in the deal, this might be too much of a lateral move to excite Joe Dumars.

Lateral moves or worse have pretty much been all he's been offered for his four core players thus far. And Dumars has made it clear he's not interested in making lateral moves. Unless something much bolder comes out of the blue, it is becoming more and more likely that the core group will return for one more run. We'll see.

As for free agents, James Jones, the swing man from Portland, seems like the most probable signee. What I didn't realize at first, though, was that he opted to leave $3.1 million on the table to get out of Portland. He's going to want more than that to start. If he gets $4 million or more from another team, the Pistons probably would bow out.

I am still keeping my eyes on James Posey and Josh Smith. Now, there is no earthly way the Hawks should let Smith go. Philadelphia can offer him between $11 million and $12 million to start. The Hawks can easily match that. If, for whatever reason, they don't, then a sign-and-trade comes back into play and the Pistons would be trying to get involved with that. But that's a real longshot. Posey is intriguing. Teams, especially those already with lofty payrolls, can't afford to give a full mid-level to a reserve player, even one as accomplished as Posey. It doesn't look like the Celtics are going to offer him a full mid-level (especially if they land Maggette). I doubt the Pistons would offer him the full mid-level, either, but that could change. I am not throwing in the towel on Posey just yet, though that too is a long shot.

What's the difference between a "lateral move" and a "fair trade"?

An NBA GM that used to play for the Celtics.

So according to "the rule of McOppositsky"


Things have been fairly active with trades and free agency for the Pistons and there's still a good chance that we'll sign Maggette. If he agrees to take the MLE, then we've got a good shot.

Elton Brand will sign with the Warriors, whom the Pistons have been talking with extensively, they really like Harrington.

Joe is excited and really looking for a lateral move, but all he has been getting is better offers than that.

The core group is finished in Detroit.

The Pistons have no interest in James Jones, who is willing to take less than the $3.1m that he declined from Portland. The Pistons could become interested if Jones is looking for $4m or more, though.

The Hawks would be wise to let Josh Smith go, but the Pistons have no interest in doing a sign and trade with the Hawks.

The Pistons will possibly give the full MLE to James Posey. The chances of the Pistons signing him look really good.

Question:

If Chauncey gets dealt this summer and we don't get a PG in return, are we then on the lookout for a #2 PG or do you think that a combo of Lindsey/Bynum is sufficient?

If they plan to use Lindsey like they used him last year (sparingly) then Joe would probably have to look for a solid #2, I assume.

I think Lindsey is capable of playing 20 mpg...don't you?


If Chauncey goes, I'd think Juan Dixon comes back...

ANTHONY GOLDWIRE

I thought Pepe Sanchez was going to be on the Summer League team.

What about Ricky Davis, he's a poor mans Corey Maggette...?

But also, a rich man's Jarvis Hayes.

What about Ricky Davis, he's a poor mans Corey Maggette...?

But also, a rich man's Jarvis Hayes.
He's also Ricky Davis unfortunately.
MezCclCSjNw

Ricky Davis > Jarvis Hayes > Carlos Delfino

No?

I am a Fino hater, and I think he was better than Jarvis. Jarvis pissed me right off the last month+ playoffs.

They're all undesirable.

Ricky Davis is the best option, if only because he's the only guy on the list with enough talent to make a difference on this roster.

Delfino is better than Jarvis because he can actually dribble the ball and play defense. He's a better all around player, even if Jarvis is a much better set shooter.

Neither of them really belong in the NBA.

They belong. They just belong towards the end of the bench, not getting up very often.

In either case, they don't belong in backup SF discussion.

Ricky Davis makes a case simply because he's talented enough for the job, but nobody's goign to want him either.

If it were entirely based on talent, I'd love to have Ricky. He's just too "Ricky Davis" for my liking. Let's face it, the guys a straight up headcase.

Just be prepared for it, because Joe's free agent options are dwindling.

No one said he was going to get a backup SF via free agency. He's still got the option of making trades.

If he thought he was going to acquire a SF via trade, he wouldn't be going exclusively after them in free agency.

Joe's going to sign a SF. It's just a question of who.

I'm not saying he's not looking to sign one. Its just not a given that he WILL sign one. If he doesn't get who he wants in free agency, he can try to include on in a trade. If the main guys he's looking at (C.J., Pietrus, Jones, Maggette) all sign elsewhere, he doesn't HAVE to sign someone like Delfino or Davis.

He has to get someone. He's not just going to go all free agency without signing a swingman.

TRADE! What about that word is lost on you? I'm not saying he won't get a swingman, I'm just saying he doesn't have to SIGN him. He could find a better deal in a trade than a signing.

If he had any trades in the works, he wouldn't be going after small forwards, and nothing BUT small forwards.

First off, you don't know what he's going after because we only hear rumors. For all we know, he's looking at backup PG's as we speak but just keeping it quiet.

Second off, just because he's working on a trade doesn't mean he's not taking a look at is other options. He's got to cover himself in case the trade falls through.

Because, of course, all GMs tell the public exactly who they're targetting in free agency and wouldn't possibly think of having multiple plans in case some fail. Who would do something stupid like that?

of course he has multiple backup plans. They're called Ricky Davis, Bonzi Wells and CJ Miles.


He's contacting CARLOS FUCKING DELFINO.

Does that sound like someone who has a trade up his sleeve?

If Joe thought he could work a trade for a backup small forward from Efes Pilsen, he'd even have Delfino's agent's number?

Right, covering your bases means you're not even thinking trade. Seriously, I'm pretty much done with this argument, you're being pretty fucking short-sighted and stupid.

...so why isn't he "covering his bases" at any other position?

oh right, no answers.

...and i'm the short sighted and stupid one...

Must be nice to declare yourself the winner of an argument you came up woefully short it. Nice work, if you can get it.

You don't know he's NOT covering his bases in other areas. All you know is that the media speculation is about some backup swingmen we may be after. We know nothing beyond that. You can't even admit that its a possibility? That's all I'm saying, that its possible and we don't know what Joe is doing.

You don't know he's NOT covering his bases in other areas. All you know is that the media speculation is about some backup swingmen we may be after.


riiiiight. He let us know about all the small forwards he's been after in free agency...and nothing but small forwards. Why? He's keeping the real super-secret free agent targets secret.

In fact, they're so secret you won't know who he signed until 2009.

All I'm saying is, he could have other things he's considering. They could be trades and other free agents, and things just may not have leaked yet. The Denver idea and Golden State idea leaked, and it doesn't even mean they're true. You never know what's going on because you're not there. You only hear what gets out. I'm not saying whether he is or isn't doing anything, just that its possible. What about possible doesn't get through to you?

I wouldn't even be arguing this if I wasn't bored in class.

I wouldn't even be arguing this if I wasn't bored in class.

Tell Kelsey I said Hi. 7

Joe will not trade Jerry Stackhouse.

I am a Fino hater, and I think he was better than Jarvis. Jarvis pissed me right off the last month+ playoffs.
I'm in complete agreement with adding most of the year to the last month.

Ricky Davis would make a difference, if he ever grew some basketball knowledge. I've always considered him a waste of physical talent controlled by a slow basketball brain.

I'm in complete agreement with adding most of the year to the last month.


Meh, he played like the kind of guy you get for the vets. min.

fuck a fino

Meh, he played like the kind of guy you get for the vets. min.
I expect consistent average mediocre game then. Not dabbling into "WTF how did you get into this league" territory on any given night if he's feeling like trying to jump out his one dimensional box. Unfortunately that was most nights.

I'd rather have Mo Evans back than Carlos Delfino...

I'd rather have Mo Evans back than Carlos Delfino...
I wouldn't. Don't get me wrong, Delf isn't really all that great an option, but if we are adding not so great options, i'd prefer him over Evans the Snitch.

Evans = snitch

Curry = snitch

Could be some symmetry there.

Evans = snitch

Curry = snitch

Could be some symmetry there.
Curry=Coach

Evans=Mediocre basketball player.

Pistons' Dumars on trades: 'Nothing imminent'

by A. Sherrod Blakely
Wednesday July 09, 2008, 12:05 AM

AUBURN HILLS -- Before free agency began, Pistons president Joe Dumars said he wanted to make a significant change to his core group.

There's still plenty of time for that, but don't look for any kind of roster shake-up to occur Wednesday, the first day for trades and free-agent signings.

It appears the Pistons will fail to land any of the three small forwards they targeted at the start of free agency.

Portland's James Jones is expected to sign a five-year deal with Miami that will pay him close to $5 million per season. Golden State's Mickael Pietrus has reportedly agreed to a deal with Orlando.

Utah's C.J. Miles remains a possibility, but him being a restricted free agent complicates matters.

The Pistons are only going to sign him to an offer sheet if they feel that the Jazz won't match it, similar to what they did last summer with Jarvis Hayes who was a restricted free agent with Washington.

Toronto guard/forward and former Piston Carlos Delfino is another possibility, but, like Miles, he is a restricted free agent.

Boston's James Posey and the Los Angeles Clippers' Corey Maggette also were believed to be options, but Posey remains a longshot while Maggette has reportedly agreed to a deal with Golden State.

For Dumars to make the kind of significant changes he seeks, it likely will have to come via trade, with Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince being Detroit players most likely to be included in a deal.

Billups is a strong possibility to be traded due to the emergence of Rodney Stuckey this past season, while Prince could be dealt because the player Detroit acquires might play his position.

Richard Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace are other options, but Detroit doesn't seem interested in parting with its leading scorer since 2003 (Hamilton) or arguably its most talented player whose contract comes off the books next summer (Wallace).

Both Billups and Prince were among the names mentioned frequently in connection with trade talks that would have brought Denver's Carmelo Anthony to Detroit.

Dumars said recently that he has had conversations with about 10-12 teams.

"I can tell you that there is nothing imminent and there have only been conversations," Dumars said. "But nothing imminent in terms of a deal or close to a deal."

One of the reasons for that might have been the base-year compensation limitations on Billups' contract, which was signed last summer.

Players who re-sign with their respective teams, have a trade value that's equal to half of their actual salary in the first year of the deal. Those restrictions will be lifted Wednesday.

In addition to Denver, the Pistons might also look to Houston as a trading partner. Along with Anthony, the Pistons also have interest in Rockets All-Star Tracy McGrady.

Dumars declined to reveal any players Detroit is specifically targeting via trade, but he did say that the Pistons are not in a huge rush to get a deal done.

"I like to act decisively whenever I'm trying to get something done," Dumars said. "But I'm well aware that there has to be another team that's willing, and there has to be a good deal for both teams. Those two things will slow you down in doing a deal.

"What you have to do is be patient. What you can't do is run out and make a knee-jerk deal just to prove a point. You have to be smart about stuff like this and you have to know that it's a deal that you know is going to help your team get better."

definetely do not want to do rip/tay for tmac, which was prolly discussed already.

this is gonna be a long summer for pistons fans

The problem with Tmac is he makes so much you have to trade 2 starters. Not going to happen.

despite dice being the hungriest, i wouldnt mind him being traded with a starter but i dont want to see any 2 of rip/cb/tay/sheed for tmac, although he is one of my most favorite players, and probably one of the hungrier players, the risk he brings isnt worth it.

i wonder who else joe is looking at. JOSH SMITH PERHAPS?!

yeah i agree, i love t-mac, and at times he makes you think he's the most talented player in the league, but he's shown me nothing to suggest he can stay healthy for an entire season...or even win a playoff series for that matter...


not worth two starters, which i'm almost certain Morey would ask for...

I know that it's only Hoopsworld, but here you go.


McGrady and the Pistons

By: Bill Ingram
Last Updated: 7/9/08 12:57 PM ET | 8944 times read

The Houston Rockets would have liked to have been players in the Corey Maggette discussion, but before it even began they knew they didn't have the money to be in that conversation. Maggette had MLE offers from nearly half of the NBA, and was simply waiting for a team with cap space to step up. The Warriors were the first to do so and they will now have Maggette there as they try to recover from the loss of Baron Davis.

The next name Rockets fans are going to hear thrown around is James Posey, but it's doubtful that he winds up in Houston. Frankly, Posey is in a pretty good position to get radically overpaid. He's a nice player, the kind of player who can get a team that just needs a minor tweak into the Finals. But "value" is a strange bedfellow, and often changes depending on the situation. Posey is worth an MLE contract, but with Maggette off the market he might get offers well over that range from a desperate team. The Rockets are in that discussion, but again, are likely to miss out. And that might not be a bad thing.

Which brings us to Tracy McGrady.

I recently had a very frank discussion with Rockets VP Sam Hinkie about McGrady, and it was very similar to discussions I've had with GM Daryl Morey. Hinkie quipped that he and Morey have considered doing bi-monthly press releases stating simply: "The Houston Rockets are NOT interested in trading McGrady." We've written this countless times at HOOPSWORLD, and here it is again:

The Houston Rockets are NOT interested in trading Tracy McGrady.

Is it possible that their stance will change? Of course. But they have a lot of other business to take care of before they decide it's time to completely blow up the team.

The team is close to signing Dikembe Mutombo, which is an absolutely essential first step. Step number two will be signing Carl Landry, a process that has been made needlessly complicated by his agent's refusal to have a simple MRI done to confirm the status of Landry's injured knee. Landry's agent is hoping some other team will offer him a bigger contract without an MRI, but the simple fact that the MRI is being avoided has to be a concern. If the knee is fine, why not have the MRI and prove it to everyone? No one wants to invest millions of dollars in an unknown quantity. Sooner or later, the MRI will be completed and Landry will land back in Houston.

Assuming that to be the case, the Rockets feel they have a great chance to be better simply by allowing their existing team to come together. Luis Scola will improve over the summer, Landry and Aaron Brooks will likely be better (assuming Landry doesn't let his agent cost him summer league and training camp). If they can also get Yao Ming and McGrady healthy for the bulk of the season, that could be enough to get the Rockets to the second round of the playoffs and beyond.

Where I think a crack develops - a crack that might allow McGrady trade talk to slip in - is in Houston's confidence that they can actually get both of their cornerstones healthy at the same time. As good as Yao and McGrady might be together, there is a growing feeling among Rockets fans that they won't ever see their heroes healthy together when it matters most.

Even if the times comes when the Rockets might be willing to move McGrady, it won't be for Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince, as has been rumored time and time again in Detroit media. Rafer Alston has been nothing short of fantastic, and the Rockets are optimistic that Brooks will be ready to log meaningful minutes this season. Bobby Jackson is still in place, as well, and his knowledge of the Adelman offense was invaluable last year. Bringing in Billups - awesome as he is - only creates problems at the point. But the real killer is Prince, who is basically Shane Battier. If there are two more similar players, I don't know who they are. Battier, though, is more of a locker room influence than the reserved Prince. In other words, the Rockets already have the better version of Prince, and certainly don't need another. Neither Billups nor Prince is a premier scorer, so the Rockets would be giving up a lot of points in the deal.

Something involving Rip Hamilton would make a lot more sense for Houston, but that's not what's being rumored . . .and again, the Rockets maintain McGrady isn't on the table anyway.

dice has continually said he would retire before accepting a trade. he's not prepared to move to another team at this stage- any team, according to him.

and he's one of the few guys who i actually believe when he says that. he ain't going anywhere IMO.


despite dice being the hungriest, i wouldnt mind him being traded with a starter but i dont want to see any 2 of rip/cb/tay/sheed for tmac, although he is one of my most favorite players, and probably one of the hungrier players, the risk he brings isnt worth it.

i wonder who else joe is looking at. JOSH SMITH PERHAPS?!

So basically, if we trade him we end his career. He'd just be a cap-fitting piece if he were involved in a trade.

I doubt we're getting anybody of a "T-Mac" variety of scorer. Our players individually just don't have that value. It will take at least 2 of our Big 4, and probably a young piece too.

but he has to report to a team in order for the trade to go through. you can't just trade someone as a 'cap-fitting piece' as you say. there is some sort of rule about how much time they spend with their team or whatever. IOW- you can't trade players who retire and don't report to their new team.


So basically, if we trade him we end his career. He'd just be a cap-fitting piece if he were involved in a trade.

but he has to report to a team in order for the trade to go through. you can't just trade someone as a 'cap-fitting piece' as you say. there is some sort of rule about how much time they spend with their team or whatever. IOW- you can't trade players who retire and don't report to their new team.


Of course he could walk in the door, say thanks, and pick up his check.

Wasn't KVH traded this year?

I don't think you have to report. He'd probably just have to wait to retire until the trade is all processed.

Of course he could walk in the door, say thanks, and pick up his check.

Wasn't KVH traded this year?

Yep, as was Aaron McKie.

my bad. i thought i read once that the league was trying to crack down on this sort of thing and that a player could be forced to report with their new team for a certain amount of time.

i swear i read that at ESPN once.

No no, the league made it so you can't trade a player, waive him, and have him immediately sign with his old team. He has to wait a month to resign with his original team.

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2008/07/oakland_tribune_detroit_piston.html


not sure if this qualifies as a 'legit' rumour but with all the crap thrown around at this time of the year, this is no worse than any of the other 'legit' rumours.

the best part about Billups for Biedrins is that fans of both teams thinks the other player is garbage compared to their guy....

LOL. i'd want more for billups but i wouldn't say biedrins is garbage.

LOL. i'd want more for billups but i wouldn't say biedrins is garbage.


Well that's just it.

Pistons fans want more for billups, and warrior fans want more for Biedrins. Both sides wouldn't possibly be further apart in the trade values.

It's not that warrior fans wouldn't want billups, its that they think Biedrins is worth way more.....

And we think Billups is worth way more than just Biedrins. I don't know how much his game has progressed in the last season, but I know he had no offense a few years ago.

he still has no offense, but he's a heck of a defender and rebounder.

He had a 26-rebound game this season.

For what it's worth, our summer league team is damn good.

Will Bynam is playing his way into an october invite.

man i wish i was able to watch....

yeah i expected us to be damn good. stuckey, amir and afflalo are solid young players and they alone should be able to beat down on our opponents.

very excited about bynum. i'd love to see him win the 3rd PG role. as others have said, he's a really good player off the dribble. while he's undersized, he could give us a dimension we really need- someone who can break people down off the dribble and get his own shot or get others an open shot. or he could drive and get in the lane, causing havoc.

i'm definitely rooting for him.

how 'explosive' does sharpe look? just from the short youtube clips i saw of him, he kind of looked in slow motion. nice to hear he can handle and has a decent mid range shot. but i'd love to hear that he is an above the rim athlete who can explode to the hoop too.

any other standout performances?

I posted in the summer league thread so as to not get too off topic here.

LOL- thanks. i forgot which thread this was anyway.

Biedrin's brings some nice assets, at least.

http://images.sports.cn/2004/04/05/129695A.jpg

The Warriors aren't sitting by idly as they wait to see if the Lakers match Golden State's four-year, $17 million offer to Ronny Turiaf.

The team continues to make inquiries into acquiring a point guard, league sources said, though it appears unlikely that a big name like Chauncey Billups or Kirk Hinrich will be landing in Oakland soon.

Indications are that the Warriors are intent on having Monta Ellis replace Baron Davis at the point and giving Ellis room to grow.

Vice president Chris Mullin said that talks on contracts for Ellis and Andris Biedrins, both restricted free agents, remain ongoing.

And though a league source said Ellis has drawn sign-and-trade interest from the Heat, Cavs and Blazers, nothing is likely to materialize. Any scenario would require approval from the Warriors, who are intent on keeping Ellis and Biedrins.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/14/SPJB11OM4E.DTL




Yet we repeat that the Clips, fearing an offer to any of them would be matched, might ultimately decide that it's better use their cap space to absorb a veteran's contract. New York's Zach Randolph has already been mentioned as a possibility, but there are more appealing names that could be available and have to be investigated first. Just to name two: Miami's Shawn Marion and Detroit's Rasheed Wallace, whom Dunleavy has coached before.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=FA-News-080712

What would we get for Sheed from the Clippers? They only have a few interesting players. Kamen, Thornton and Gordon. Otherwise I'm not really interested in any of them. I would think any deal would have to include Kamen or we'd be very undersized. Maybe some sort of Sheed/Max for Kamen/Thornton package or something.

They'd offer Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas.

There's no way they'd offer Thornton or Kamen, and we don't need Gordon.

And why would we want Mobely or TT? Joe would laugh them off the phone. So would Miami for Marion. I wouldn't mind Mobley off the bench here, but I'm not trading any starter for him.

And why would we want Mobely or TT? Joe would laugh them off the phone. So would Miami for Marion. I wouldn't mind Mobley off the bench here, but I'm not trading any starter for him.

The most the offered for Randolph was a 2nd round pick.The Clippers are looking for bargains, they realize they have nothing of value to deal right now.

They offered a second round pick for Randolph because they'd be taking on a horrible contract in return.

Not the case at all with Sheed.

They'd have to give up a significant piece, relatively speaking.

id do sheed and max for kaman and tt