Did I chicken out or was I just wise enough to not take a wager where there was no benefit even if I had won?


Or possibly it was your excuse.

Exactly. Just like your "DONE" prediction.

The Conference finals one was at least interesting.

Or possibly it was your excuse.

lol

Excuse for what, exactly?

You guys are a hoot.

I made two predictions, one short term and one long term.

I was wrong on the short term one and openly welcome your criticism, but you want to focus on the other, despite it still being factually sound, (as of today, at least).

Now, let's change the discussion to make it about how ballsy the prediction was or use some irrelevant volcano example to try to discredit it, hell, Gutz wants to make it about some phony one-sided wager that I even contemplated taking if someone had just made it worth my while. (but...*crickets*)

Good stuff from you two.

Facts are facts.

WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT, YOUR BORING-ASS "I don't think the Spurs will win another ring" STATEMENT?

Sweet.

Lets do that.

So.

Um.

Yeah.

That's pretty fucking boring.

POKE ME WITH STICKS AND LAUGH AT WHAT I WAS ACTUALLY WRONG ABOUT

or something

or don't

whatever

My interest in this thread = DONE.

I really hope a volcano errupts in the next few days.

http://i32.tinypic.com/8vvq4m.jpg

I love it.

Makes it more painful.

How does he not pass it right back to Horry? Dude is just waiting for that return pass to add another last minute clutch three to his list.

BTW, Phil Jackson has never lost a series in which his team has won game one.

He's 40-0.

More bad news for the Spurs, as it seems that despite their best efforts to convince him to come to the NBA, Tiago Splitter is staying over in Eurpoe for at least another year.

(read it on Marca)

ESPN.com asked me to participate in a roundtable with their NBA writers recently.


Roundtable: What does the future hold for Spurs?

ESPN.com
Updated: May 29, 2008


1. The Spurs didn't make the Finals this season. What are the main reasons?

Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: Manu Ginobili's inconsistent play, which is undoubtedly related to fatigue and injury, and some bad timing in which the Spurs' normally excellent role players -- Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Brent Barry -- took turns being really, really cold when it mattered.

Also, the Lakers are an excellent team.



J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Sometimes there's a fine line between "experienced" and "old," and the Spurs appeared to tiptoe past it in these playoffs, getting blown out by New Orleans three times on the road and getting out-hustled by the Lakers in their own building in Game 5.

Another reason would be the lack of consistent production from their role players. Robert Horry hasn't made a shot so far this series. Two starters didn't score in Game 5. As Hubie Brown would say, you cannot have that.



Chris Broussard, ESPN The Mag: Age has had a slight impact. Tim Duncan is still a super-elite player but he has lost a step, and Bruce Bowen and Michael Finley, while still effective, have lost a bit as well.

Also, the Lakers improved drastically, as did New Orleans. Simply put, San Antonio is no longer the best team in the West. L.A. is.



Glenn, WTFDetroit.com: I've been telling bitches for months that these guys are too old and slow.



Ric Bucher, ESPN The Mag: The age and athleticism issues we've been talking about for the past few years finally came to bear.



Glenn, WTFDetroit.com: That's what I just said, motherfucker.



John Hollinger, ESPN.com: If the Spurs don't make the Finals, it won't be because of a non-call at the end of Game 4. No, the reason instead will be the 20-point lead they blew in Game 1 and, more generally, the fact they ran into a team with younger, fresher legs and didn't have enough left in the tank to respond.

With Manu worse than 100 percent and the other role players showing their age, they weren't quite good enough this time around.



Glenn, WTFDetroit.com: Cunt.



Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: It won't be because of Joey Crawford or any other peripheral issue. It'll be because they met their match -- just like two years ago against Dallas. The Lakers deserve credit here. They've played well ... except for those final 30 seconds in Game 4.



2. How much longer do you expect the Spurs' big three to play at a high level?

Abbott: At least three years.

John Hollinger will tell you big men last longer, and Tim Duncan is in perfectly good shape as far as I can tell. He's 32 and he'll be elite for at least three more years, I'd assume.

Ginobili is the biggest worry: He's injury prone and a wing who has to be athletic to be most effective. But he's turning only 31 this summer. Plus, he can shoot and he has plenty of size for his position, so he'll age better than most.

And Parker is a baby.



Adande: If these playoffs are any indication, the Spurs will be down to a Big 2½ in the next couple of years.

Duncan is still capable of putting up big numbers and his game isn't based on athleticism, so age won't affect him the way it did, say, Shaquille O'Neal. Tony Parker just turned 26 and is as fast as ever.

But the accumulated wear and tear of all those extra playoff games, plus international competition, appears to be catching up to Ginobili -- especially on defense, where he no longer is the roving X factor he used to be.



Broussard: Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon and Moses Malone all had their last "20-10''-type seasons at (roughly) 34 years of age, so the 32-year-old Duncan's probably got two, maybe three, seasons left at this level.

Having a great, young (26) point guard like Tony Parker will help keep him at a high level.

Ginobili, who'll be 31 this summer, is probably on a similar timetable to Duncan, so I'll give them at least two more years at close to this level, but to win another title, they're going to have to have better pieces around them.



Glenn: You assholes can make all the excuses for them that you want to, they're DONE.



Bucher: The only question mark is the cumulative effect of Manu Ginobili's injuries.

Tim Duncan never lived off his athleticism, so even if that is diminishing, it shouldn't have a significant impact on his effectiveness.

Tony Parker is still improving.

They should have at least two more seasons as a championship-caliber core.



Glenn: You are an asshole, aren't you Bucher?



Hollinger: I'd expect each of them to have at least a couple more good years in them. Ginobili had the best season of his career this year and Parker is only 26, so it's not like imminent declines are coming from either of them.

Duncan, at 32, remains one of the league's most effective players, and players of his size and build tend to age well. So I doubt any of them will slip radically over the next two years.



Glenn: I pounded your wife's kitty last night Hollinger, you should have heard it PER.



Sheridan: Duncan has slipped very little. And Parker still has 90 percent of his speed, and Manu merely has ankle issues holding him back. I see them staying at a high level through 2012.



Glenn: You're an idiot, too.





3. What will be the Spurs' biggest issues going forward?


Abbott: There is no crisis, just really good competition and a need for some of the pieces in the pipeline to start contributing (like Rodney Stuckey and Amir Johnson will be doing for the Pistons -- a team in a similar spot).

The Spurs let Luis Scola get away. And they might be losing Tiago Splitter to Tau. So that puts a lot of pressure on the likes of Ian Mahinmi, Ime Udoka and new youngsters who might join the roster to really be able to play. In the past, those guys weren't really needed.



Glenn: Hey Abbott, do you know Keith Langlois?



Adande: The Spurs are so businesslike, it makes sense that one of their issues could be found in the currency tables of the Wall Street Journal; the declining dollar makes it less appealing for foreign draft picks to come here when they could be getting paid in Euros.

And as other teams catch up with them they won't have the built-in edge to attract NBA free agents they enjoyed when they were closer to a title than anyone else.

Finally, if home court is going to continue to make such a difference in the playoffs, the Spurs won't be able to stick with their strategy of rationing out minutes to the veterans and cruising a little in the regular season to keep everyone fresh. They'll have to fight for top seeds like everyone else.



Broussard: The Spurs are going to have to put better players around their big three. They're going to have to get younger and more athletic, and they'll need to get a better power forward to match up with David West in N.O., and Pau Gasol (who will move to the 4 when Andrew Bynum returns) or Odom in L.A.

Duncan won't be able to carry that frontline by himself anymore. He needs a PF who can give him good rebounding and a little scoring.



Glenn: I bet you think that'll be pretty easy to do, don't you Broussard?



Bucher: The Spurs have structured their contracts so that only Parker and Duncan are under contract for the summer of '10, when a dozen or more superstars -- Kobe, who has great admiration for the San Antonio organization, included -- could be available.

So the biggest question they face is, how much do they invest in potential free agents, and thereby impinge upon their cap flexibility, between then and now?



Glenn: Yeah, Kobe's going to leave LA for San Antonio. Fuck's that?



Hollinger: Their three biggest problems are age, age and age. Every Spurs role player is on the wrong side of 30. All of them. And they're fading fast.

Michael Finley is a shell of what he was. Robert Horry is done, finito, over. Bruce Bowen (36), Brent Barry (36) and Fabricio Oberto (33) got next.

Even Ime Udoka is 30, and he's the young whippersnapper on this bench.

The Spurs need to rebuild the entire roster outside of the three-man core over the next two years; while they've given themselves plenty of cap flexibility to do it, it's a massive undertaking.


Glenn: You just didn't want to hear more about your wife, did you Johnnie?


Sheridan: They need a young big man and an athletic 3. I am not ready to say that Ian Mahinmi and Tiago Splitter are the answers.


4. The Spurs have talked about keeping this core together through (at least) 2012. How many NBA titles will they win from now to then?

Glenn: Obviously, they're DONE.



Abbott: Darn it, my crystal ball is still not working! I'll guess one, but anything from zero to three would not surprise me.


Glenn: "Zero to three?" Now that is a strong prediction. Fool just might go all volcano on your ass for that one.



Adande: The Spurs could get one more championship in that window. They will have to be opportunistic because the next three to four years should belong to the Lakers, with the Hornets, Jazz and possibly Blazers in the Western Conference elite mix as well.

Maybe they'll catch a break (they're owed one after the Derek Fisher non-call) or benefit from a key injury on another team. They'll be a fixture in the second round, but will need things to go their way to advance.



Broussard: Like I said, it depends on who they add to their core. As they are, they probably won't win another ring. But I'll give them one more title through 2012 just because "you can never count them out'' and, I'm assuming, they'll make smart personnel moves.



Glenn: That's idiotic. You can't count out 20 other teams either, are you going to give them all another ring by 2012? Jagoff.



Bucher: On their every-other-year schedule, two more, but even the Spurs don't believe they can keep that run going.

That said, they are simply too smart as an organization for anyone to suggest they can't claim one more Larry O'Brien bauble before we see Duncan and Popovich ride off into the sunset together.



Glenn: What the fuck does that first sentence mean? You think they'll win two more, but they don't? Jeezus Christ!



Hollinger: The Duncan-era Spurs might very well have another title left in them. Remember, this is one of the league's shrewdest organizations, and I have little doubt R.C. Buford, Gregg Popovich and company can figure out how to get some new pieces to replenish the aging ones.

The problem is that it might take a couple of years to get it all sorted out, and in the meantime the Lakers, Jazz, Hornets and Blazers all will be ascendant in the West.



Sheridan: At least one. And I am not counting them out of this series yet. But they'll be a high-level team at least until then, and they have a knack for winning tight games.



5. How do the Spurs rate among the greatest franchises of the past three decades?

Abbott: Part of being a "great franchise" is capturing the imagination of a national audience, and on that score they are among the worst champions ever and rank so far behind the Bulls, Lakers, and Celtics that you'd need binoculars to see them. But they don't care. This franchise under Gregg Popovich and Tim Duncan has always been about playing the best basketball, and on that score you simply have to put them up there with the very best.



Adande: They go sixth, behind the '80s Lakers, the '80s Celtics, the '90s Bulls, the three-peat Lakers and the underrated Pistons Bad Boys teams.

Duncan deserves credit for being the mainstay of so many good teams, but the full Spurs lineup couldn't match the talent on those other squads. Their most admirable trait has been their stability, a testament to the mind-set of the players and coaches and the front office's ability to manage the payroll. But that isn't an awe-inspiring trait.



Broussard: On the court, the Lakers are easily the NBA's finest franchise over the past three decades. Chicago's great just based on the Jordan Era, but San Antonio is right there after that.

They were solid in the late '70s/early '80s with The Iceman, very good in the late '80s/early '90s with The Admiral and great in the late '90s/2000s with Duncan. They haven't had the long droughts of weak play that have plagued Chicago and Boston and Detroit.

Off the court, the Spurs are great in terms of professionalism, character, etc.



Bucher: A top-five franchise, along with Lakers, Celtics, Pistons and Bulls.

Sure, they haven't won back-to-back titles, but maybe that's a reflection of overall increased league parity more than the Spurs' being unworthy of entrance to Valhalla. In the five years since the Lakers' three-peat, seven different teams have been in the Finals. If the Lakers and Celtics advance, it will be nine different teams over a six-year span. From a cursory glance at the NBA Guide, I didn't see a five-year stretch that ever saw that much Finals turnover.



Hollinger: The fact San Antonio never repeated will be held against it, but four championships in nine years is impressive no matter how you slice it. While these Spurs can't hang with the Shaq-and-Kobe three-peat or the Lakers and Celtics teams from the '80s, I'd put them up against any other team from the past three decades.

So let's call them the fourth-best dynasty of the post-merger era. That's not too shabby for a little outpost in south Texas.



Sheridan: It's telling that the franchise other teams most try to emulate is the Spurs -- it speaks to what a class act they've been on and off the court for the past decade-plus. In terms of greatness over the past 30 years, I'll rank 'em behind the '90s Bulls and the '80s Lakers and Celtics, a notch ahead of the Bad Boys Pistons.



Glenn: I don't much care, to be honest with you, I'll leave the scrotum slurping to you fucks. I think I'm going to go put a bullet in my head now, thanks to you douchebags. But not before nailing Hollinger's wife one more time.

Evil Glenn "Telling these bitches" ???? LOL

Bravo!

http://www.dolem.com/images/lakers/spurs_gone_fishing.jpg

http://www.garyhoeffler.com/images/spursfshing051706.jpg

Manu goes fishing all the time. He scouts the fish flopping around in the boat.

That second pic just cracks me up.

I've been sitting on those for weeks, btw.

I bet.

I bet.


:little tony:

Glenn is just full of energy this afternoon.

Just trying to make it a great day.

we need a Pistons win to secure that.

Spurs Report, DONE.

http://www.spursreport.com/

Spurs Report, DONE.

http://www.spursreport.com/

See, those people know the deal.

Hollinger: Spurs are DONE. Pistons undone.

http://www.nysun.com/sports/spurs-not-pistons-need-major-retooling/79176/

Very uncuntinsh of him.

You should post the Pistons relevant part of that in the offseason thread.

Nice to see that the Spurs are DONE. concept is catching on nationally, too.

Very uncuntinsh of him.

You should post the Pistons relevant part of that in the offseason thread.

That seems more like the responsibility of people who are affiliated with the site.

From now on you will be unable to read this thread without this song playing in the background.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/130727157ed2665c/

Glenn, MoTown: The Spurs are so DONE.

David Thorpe: (12:54 PM ET ) Not yet. Had Manu been healthy, I still think they could have won the title.

:motown owns:

Hmm. Wonder what he'd say when asked if the Pistons are done. Would he point to the C-Bill injury?

rogermason. they aint done:cogent:

They went from Michael Finley to Brent Barry to thinking they had Cory Maggette....and then they had to settle for Roger Mason.

Their gift string of quality free agents at bargain prices just got snapped.

If that isn't "done," I don't know what is.

i was trying to be sarcastic, guess it didnt work.

roger mason wasnt the answer to the spurs bench. neither was george hill at #26

They know.



2 more depart Spurs front office in shake-up

Web Posted: 07/14/2008 09:35 PM CDT
By Travis E. Poling
Express-News

Two more executives have left Spurs Sports & Entertainment, a month after the sudden departure of Executive Vice President Russ Bookbinder.

The moves are part of an ongoing shake-up of the Spurs front office that could have more repercussions later this summer.

Bruce Guthrie, Spurs vice president, and Paula Winslow, vice president of human resources, left the organization that includes the NBA franchise, the WNBA's Silver Stars, hockey's Rampage and management of the AT&T Center.

Guthrie had been with the Spurs for 26 years. He started as an account executive and moved to director of marketing. He became a vice president in 1992.

Winslow joined the Spurs 15 years ago and saw her department expand as the company grew from 30 to 200 employees and hundreds of part-time workers.

Guthrie and Winslow could not be reached for comment Monday evening.

“Like most companies, there come times when you have to re-evaluate your operations,” said Leo Gomez, Spurs vice president of external affairs. “There's review of every organization just like we do with the team. Now we're doing it on the business side.”

Gomez wouldn't say if there will be more staff changes but said the review of operations was ongoing.

“We're continuing to review, and there's going to be reorganization,” Gomez said. News on those moves will come later in the offseason.

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/epa0894l.jpg

For the second straight game, San Antonio's George Hill didn't make a shot. He missed all 10 of his attempts Tuesday and was 0-for-6 from the field today.

I actually posted on here that I wanted to take him with our original 2nd rounder. But he seemed like a guy worth taking a flyer on, not using a 1st on.

If a rookie guard going 0/16 over two summer league games doesn't mean that you are DONE. then I don't know what does.

A rookie guard you are counting on too. I know Barry left. Udrich has been gone for a year. Is Vaughn still there? Who is their backup to Parker (not counting Manu who plays some point)?

roger mason

roger mason

I wonder if Roger Mason Jr. will go by Roger Mason Sr. now because he's on the Spurs?

I don't get it.

I don't get it.

BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL OLD

I know one thing, this thread will never be done. Christ.

someone needs to make Glenn a DONES sig. Similar to this (hopefully a better quality):

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/MarcoC56/746156878_l.jpg

who is that surprising rookie PG they took in round 1? apparently they have real high hopes for him as parker's backup. i'll believe that when i see it.

who is that surprising rookie PG they took in round 1? apparently they have real high hopes for him as parker's backup. i'll believe that when i see it.

See #288

I know one thing, this thread will never be done. Christ.


Hay guyz I didn't read the thread. What's going on with the Spurs?

mike, austin, tx: What do you think of the spurs first picks, seems that they are very fundemental sound players, play hard, good defense geist, hill

David Thorpe: (12:05 PM ET ) Hill was, for the most part, awful. Were he an undrafted free agent, he'd be a lock for Europe now, and not that high a level.

Aw, yeah, you know what that means.

NO LONGER DONE.


Spurs sign Anthony Tolliver

SAN ANTONIO - The San Antonio Spurs announced today that they signed forward Anthony Tolliver. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed.

The 6-8, 240-pound Tolliver played on the Spurs summer league teams in Las Vegas and at the Rocky Mountain Revue in Salt Lake City. He averaged 12.3 points and 5.0 rebounds in 23.0 minutes while shooting .571 (12-21) from the field and .615 (8-13) from beyond the arc in three games in Las Vegas. At the Rocky Mountain Revue Tolliver appeared in all four games, averaging 11.5 points and 3.5 rebounds in 26.5 minutes while knocking down 53.3 percent (8-15) of his shots form beyond the arc.

Last season Tolliver played for the Iowa Energy in the NBA Development League. He appeared in 25 games averaging, 11.6 points and 6.4 rebounds in 27.4 minutes per game while shooting .509 (112-220) from the field. Prior to joining the Energy Tolliver was in training camp with Cleveland Cavaliers and appeared in three games before being waived.

Tolliver spent four seasons at Creighton University where he averaged 8.1 points and 4.9 rebounds in 124 career games. As a senior, he averaged 13.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.9 assists and 1.7 blocks in 33 games and was named first-team All-MVC after being the league’s only player to rank in the top 10 in scoring, rebounding and blocked shots per game. Tolliver was also named a Senior CLASS Award All-American and a Second-team CoSIDA Academic All-American.


j/k

DONE.

http://dberri.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/cropped-wowjournaltitle20.jpg



Will the Spurs Win in 2009?

August 21, 2008

When we look at past data - specifically past patterns in data — we often hope to glean insights into the future. For example, consider the following past pattern: The San Antonio Spurs won the NBA championship in 2003, 2005, and 2007. One doesn’t need to be a college professor to see what this pattern suggests about the future. Obviously the Spurs are destined to win the NBA title in 2009. In fact, we might as well skip the next season and get to the 2009-10 season.

And with that observation, my post on the Spurs should end. The data says clearly San Antonio is going to win in 2009. So what more needs to be said?

Of course, there is a tiny possibility that more could be said about this team.

Specifically, we could look at the productivity of the individual players and see if we can figure out why the Spurs declined in 2007-08 (other than just the fate of the San Antonio Spurs). And maybe we can even toss out a few thoughts on what this team is doing to win a title (other than just counting on past patterns to perfectly predict the future).

The Championship Spurs
The story of the Spurs decline begins with what happened in 2006-07. Two years ago the Spurs posted an efficiency differential (offensive efficiency minus defensive efficiency) of 9.1. That mark led the NBA in 2006-07, and was also the best differential in team history.

Such a differential translated into a 63.5 Wins Produced for the team, which also led the NBA (not surprising since Wins Produced is based on efficiency differential). When we move from the team’s Wins Produced to the individual players - as we do in Table One (re-printed from 2007 (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/the-next-jordan)) — we see which players were the primary producers of wins for this team two seasons ago.


Table One: The San Antonio Spurs in 2005-06 and 2006-07 (http://www.wagesofwins.com/Spurs0507.html)

Of the team’s 63.5 Wins Produced, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Brent Barry produced 51.9 (or 82%). Or to put it another way, everyone else on the Spurs produced fewer than 12 wins. So the productivity of the aforementioned quartet appears to be the driving force behind the team’s success.

The Spurs Decline
When we look at 2007-08, we see that the Spurs efficiency differential was only 5.25. As a consequence, the team’s Wins Produced fell to 53.6, or nearly 10 wins off the production the team offered in 2006-07. So although the team only won two fewer games last season (relative to the prior year), the Spurs were actually substantially worse.

Why did this team decline? Again, we turn to the performance of individual players.


Table Two: The San Antonio Spurs in 2007-08 (http://www.wagesofwins.com/Spurs0708.html)

As Table Two reveals, the combination of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and Barry only produced 43.7 wins last year. Much of this decline is not about players performing worse, but rather about players playing less. Specifically, it is about one particular player playing less. And that one particular player is Brent Barry.

To see this point, let’s look at the following numbers from Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker.

Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker in 2006-07: 44.4 Wins Produced
Duncan Ginobili, and Parker in 2007-08: 41.2 Wins Produced
Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker [2007-08 minutes, 2006-07 WP48]: 42.6 Wins Produced.

Now let’s look at Barry. In 2006-07 he produced 7.5 wins. Last season, in 1,077 fewer minutes - but with a very similar WP48 [Wins Produced per 48 minutes] — he only produced 2.5 wins. In other words, about 50% of the team’s decline in Wins Produced can be tied to Barry playing less.

Back in March I posted The Better Barry (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/the-better-barry). This column noted that Brent Barry
- has produced nearly 100 wins in his career
- is easily the best Barry brother (topping Jon and Drew)
- is a more productive player than his hall-of-fame father (Rick)
Obviously this column highlighted the importance of Barry to San Antonio’s success. And I think it is Barry’s decline in minutes played - due to injury and trade - that played the biggest role in San Antonio’s decline.

The Spurs in 2008-09
Unfortunately for the Spurs 2009 title hopes, the Better Barry (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/the-better-barry) is going to be playing in Houston in 2008-09. This means the Spurs are going to need to find someone else to supplement the production of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker.

Although I think there is hope in the front-court, I want to focus first on what the Spurs have done in the back-court. Specifically I want to comment briefly on the re-signing of Michael Finley and the acquisition of Roger Mason.

Let’s start with Finley. When we look at Finley’s career per-minute performance - specifically his WP48 - we see a player who is basically average. An average player posts a WP48 of 0.100. Finley’s career mark is 0.097. And this career matches the expected trajectory. He was below average his first two season. In six of the next seven seasons his WP48 surpassed the 0.100 mark (with a high of 0.145 in 1998-99). And then for his last four seasons, as he has gotten old, he has been below average.


Table Three: Michael Finley, Career and Last Season (http://www.wagesofwins.com/Finley.html)

Looking at the individual stats - in Table Three — we can see what Finley does well and where he has declined. For his career he is an above average scorer (in terms of both efficiency and totals), who limits his turnovers and personal fouls. Finley has also been able to get assists across his entire career. When we look at last season, though, we see that Finley has morphed into little more than a scorer. His rebounds, steals, blocked shots, and assists have all declined relative to his career averages. As a consequence, his Win Score - relative to both an average shooting guard and average small forward - is below par. So it doesn’t look like Finley is going to make much difference in the San Antonio’s drive to another title.

What about Mason? Like Finley, Mason is also above average with respect to shooting efficiency.

Table Four: Roger Mason, Career and Last Season (http://www.wagesofwins.com/RogerMason.html)

But Mason doesn’t do much else. Whether you call him a point guard or shooting guard, he is below average with respect to rebounds, steals, assists, and personal fouls. And like Finley, Mason doesn’t get to the line much either. So it seems unlikely that Finley or Mason can make up for the loss of Barry.

If we shift our focus off the back-court, though, we can find some reason for optimism. Fabricio Oberto’s 0.184 WP48 last season suggests that he is a capable fourth member of the Spurs leading quartet. In fact, I think the Spurs could win between 55 and 60 games next year (assuming no major injuries to Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and Oberto). Such a mark isn’t quite as good as the Wins Produced we saw in 2006-07. And it probably isn’t good enough to catch the Utah Jazz (who were quite good last year (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/note-to-the-media-one-of-the-best-teams-in-the-nba-is-in-utah)), the New Orleans Hornets (who I think will be even better next year (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/pargo-helps-out-the-hornets)), or the LA Lakers (who I still think are the favorites to win it all in 2009).

But the Spurs are good enough to give their fans hope. And fans of this team should enjoy this sense of hope while they can. Again, the key players are Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and now Oberto. Although Parker is only 26, the other three members of the quartet are now on the wrong side of 30. As we saw with Finley, age tends to lead to less production. With less production, San Antonio will eventually start to lose more frequently. And no amount of coaching or team attitude (something people often credit for the Spurs success) is going to change this fact.

- DJ

TRANSLATION?

TRANSLATION?

DONE

Who cares?

Who cares?
Views: 12,229

That makes it the 3rd most viewed NBA thread here at WTF.

Even if 12,000 of those are me.

LOL

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=ArT4Xx9RtfzVaXDA2.U8TI2QvLYF?gid=200 8110424

When's the last time the Spurs started off 0-3?

Remember when the Mavs started off 0-4 and then lost like one game in 68 tries, or something close to that.

Not just that, but they got destroyed on their home court to go 0-3.

Imagine if that was the Pistons that we were talking about.

Paker and TD are doing fine (and Mason is helping nicely). Everyone else is garbage:

KT 1-7, Udoka 3-13, Bonner 5-16, Oberto 2 points

Horryless SA will seriously be in the Dice deal if he comes available.

When's the last time the Spurs started off 0-3?

Remember when the Mavs started off 0-4 and then lost like one game in 68 tries, or something close to that.
'76 or something...

theyre done (until ginobilli comes back, then everyone will be all 'OMG HERE COME THE SPURS' - and then they lose in 1st or 2nd round to lakers/hornets.

Theyre done... Definitely one of the worst teams after their top 3.

I'm marking them down right now as being this year's addition to the Western Conference Playoff Choke Artist list. Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, say hello to San Antonio.

TP rolled his ankle and will be out for awhile.

Stick a fork in them.

DONE.

So is anyone else worried that the Spurs are going to have an injury plagued season, bad luck everywhere and missed opportunities... thus cementing their position as the best team in basketball for the next ten years?

This is exactly how the Spurs got good in the first place - David Robinson gets hurt and they win the draft lottery which turns out to be Duncan.

It's going to happen again this year, just to piss Glenn off.

I'm not worried, the big three are (or soon will be) all starting to decline, health-wise.

All that flopping around is finally catching up to them.

So is anyone else worried that the Spurs are going to have an injury plagued season, bad luck everywhere and missed opportunities... thus cementing their position as the best team in basketball for the next ten years?

This is exactly how the Spurs got good in the first place - David Robinson gets hurt and they win the draft lottery which turns out to be Duncan.

It's going to happen again this year, just to piss Glenn off.

They'll still limp into the playoffs with this group so no worries on getting the next TD IMO. Eventually they'll end up in the lotto (when TD is washed up), but all it takes is a great FA signing (like Brand in Philly) to put them back in the picture at that point. I don't see them being #1 pick bad though.

DONE.

Good man.

Like Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Bucked.

Without Redd.

At 2-5, Tim Done-can has to be getting frustrated.

I feel horrible for him.

http://www.nndb.com/people/357/000086099/dunne-1-sized.jpg

http://images.starpulse.com/pictures/2007/02/22/thumbs130/Nora%20Dunn-SGG-042710.jpg

http://www.sundaypaper.com/Portals/0/2008/051108/ReadersChoice/Sports/SB_Dunn_051108.jpg

http://www.cmt.com/sitewide/assets/img/events/2007/cma_awards/arrivals/bryan_bedder/77769218_10-x600.jpg

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/sarah-jayne-dunn-2007-british-tv-soap-awards-arrivals-i2yv9V.jpg

http://baseballevolution.com/images/dunnh1.bmp

If they fire Poppovich for some reason, the Pistons should instantly fire Curry and pick him up. I don't care how bad it makes the Pistons look.

It would make them look like champions within 2 years.

It would make them look like champions within 2 years.
or less.

Doesn't the Pistons trading Chauncey = Pistons DoNe? I mean Glenn's whole point was that the Spurs wouldn't win "with this core" again.

The Pistons will not win again with that core, true, so that version of the team is DONE.

Let me know when the Spurs trade Done-can, Parker or Ginobili and we can revisit this.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3277/wtfspurswe2.gif

Nice

lol

I clapped while laughing at this.

Nice! I was laughing while doing it. I actually used the same color as the marker he used but ther was a lighter color marker used on that clipboard as well. It could have been better but I went for content over style.

I did it for Glenn...well that and I got a new haircut but he never notices those things. :(

I lol'd but forgot to acknowledge.

Poor form on my part.

It rules.

Pop is a fucking genius!

I LOL'd the first several times at the "Pass to Tim," and when I realized the "Not done" I LOL'd even harder. Excellent work.

Surging.

Apparently because they're following Pop's gameplan.

I just put Herm on my ignore list.





Also, do we have an ignore list?

VALTER, WE NEED REASSURANCE

They've been getting fat on a weak schedule, I'm not worried.

Damn, that was quick.

Valter, what if the Spurs win it all? What sayeth you thence?

Not only that, but what if they win it all with Matt Bonner starting at the 5?

It could happen. I like their odds.

Valter, what if the Spurs win it all? What sayeth you thence?

I don't know what you could possibly want me to say other than "I was wrong" which I will, of course, if they win.

The only problem with that scenario is that I'm not wrong.

Spurs sign NBA D-League's Hairston

Posted Dec 22 2008 2:36PM

SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- The San Antonio Spurs signed swingman Malik Hairston from their NBA Development League team Monday.

Hairston has played 11 games with the Austin Toros, averaging 19.5 points, 5.9 rebounds and 4.6 assists per game.

The former Oregon player was cut at the end of Spurs training camp in October. He was the 48th pick in this year's draft by Phoenix, which sent him to San Antonio in exchange for the draft rights to Goran Dragic.

This is a good signing for the Spurs, perhaps some here have been wrong about them.

I think they have a real shot this year.

The Spurs should be in rebuilding phase about now. Really, the team has been a formidable, if no longer dominant, force for a decade, and that's a pretty good run these days. You can't keep it up forever.

But with Pops (one of the best coaches in the NBA, IMO) Parker and a still-effective Duncan, they can bridge the gap and remain a strong playoff perennial.

But they are NAWT going to win it all.

oh my god I hate Ginobili

Kobe had the entire side to himself Iso'd and he passed it like a bitch.

We're going to need a new poll, just so we can see what everyone thinks now.

Go to sleep.

I love Gregg Popovich. That is all.

Austin Croshere got a 10-day deal with the DONES.

FORGET BIELEIN, POP IS THE REAL "MASTER MOTIVATOR"


Popovich blasts Spurs' defense

By Jeff McDonald - Express-News

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — In a moment of truth just before the Spurs took the floor Saturday night in Chicago, coach Gregg Popovich opened up to inquiring minds about all that was wrong with his club.

The laundry list of problems was so small it would fit on a Post-It note. It was just one item, really. But in Popovich's world, it was a biggie.

“We suck on ‘D,'” Popovich said, with the “D” standing for defense.

That was the entire text of Popovich's State of the Team address, as succinct as it was devastating. All follow-up questions fishing for a silver lining were quickly rebuffed.

Do you mean all game long, or just in fourth quarters?

“No, pretty much throughout,” Popovich said. “Both individually and team-wise, we suck. We're pretty consistent that way.”

Surely there is a way to fix this problem, some sliver of hope on the horizon?

“I don't know if I have an answer to that,” Popovich said. “If I did, we wouldn't suck quite so bad.”

A suffocating defense has long been the Spurs' calling card, the common thread that has hung four NBA championship banners in their home arena.

This season, the Spurs are 26-13 and sitting atop the Southwest Division. But, in a flip from years past, Popovich believes his team's success has come in spite of its defense, not because of it.

Heading into today's MLK Day matinee at Charlotte, which caps a three-game road swing, the Spurs rank eighth in the NBA in scoring defense, surrendering 94.2 points per game.

That number isn't so bad. To Popovich, it also is largely irrelevant.

A truer measure of a team's defensive effectiveness, he believes, is its field-goal percentage defense. It is the first number he looks at when handed the box score at the end of the night.

In Popovich's 11 full seasons on the bench, the Spurs never have finished worse than fifth in the NBA in that category. So far this season, they rank 21st. Opponents are shooting 46 percent against them.

The Spurs also are giving up a 36.9 percentage from 3-point range, 19th in the league.

A firm believer that a team eventually gets what it deserves, Popovich cringes to think of the comeuppance due the Spurs if they don't begin to boost their defensive numbers to familiar levels. And quickly.

“The only thing that's saving us is that everybody else is beating everybody else up, so our record looks basically as good as anybody else's,” Popovich said. “It's fool's gold, as far as I'm concerned.”

Rock bottom for the Spurs' defense came in Philadelphia, during a 109-87 loss that opened the road trip Friday night.

The 76ers shot 50 percent from the field, 57 percent from the 3-point line, and alley-ooped their way to 30 fast-break points en route to handing the Spurs their most lopsided defeat of the season.

Essentially, the Sixers transformed the Wachovia Center into their own personal pick-up game, with the defenseless Spurs as an unwitting foil.

Perhaps inspired by their head coach's not-so-gentle public pregame prodding, or the sheer humiliation of what happened in Philadelphia, the Spurs turned in one of their better defensive performances of the season a night later in Chicago. They held the Bulls without a field goal in the final 3:13 to lock up a 92-87 victory.

Afterward, however, the Spurs resisted the urge to declare themselves cured of all their defensive ills.

“We were better,” point guard Tony Parker said. “It's a good first step.”

The next step comes today at Charlotte. Physically, the Spurs are in North Carolina, the Tar Heel State.

Philosophically, however, they find themselves in a show-me state of mind — as in, “show me” the defensive stand they took against the Bulls is more than just a one-night wonder.

“It's just one game,” Tim Duncan said. “Now you have to build on that. If we go back to the way we've been playing, this game doesn't mean anything. It starts with one game, and you build from there.”

It might be the one way for the Spurs to silence their most vocal critic, their head coach.

A truer measure of a team's defensive effectiveness, he believes, is its field-goal percentage defense. It is the first number he looks at when handed the box score at the end of the night.

In Popovich's 11 full seasons on the bench, the Spurs never have finished worse than fifth in the NBA in that category. So far this season, they rank 21st. Opponents are shooting 46 percent against them.
BTW, the Pistons are 5th best in the NBA in that category, behind the Buttnuggets, Tragic, Keltics, and LeBrons.

The Spurs have played 24 home games and 19 road games. This game marked the beginning of a stretch where they play 11 of 12 on the road.

Rodeo > Spurs

Well, I guess if you can't beat 'em (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2802~3187~981~2816~294~3058~36 6~2769~2775~1724~3458~3235~883~11~25~42~976~3192~3 421~2834~2763~3217~532~1722~1781~2793~3041~2166~17 65~3423~336~3447~592~614~1727~3238~1996~83~215~242 ~272~3438~2774~1721~2805~1015~846~866~874&teams=10~10~10~10~10~10~10~10~10~10~10~10~10~21~21 ~21~21~21~21~21~21~21~21~21~21~21~24~24~24~24~24~2 4~24~24~24~24~8~8~8~8~8~8~8~8~8~8~8~8~8&te=&cash=)

Get it done Joe!

Here's the most recent "brilliant" move by Pop.


Nuggets capitalize on absence of Spurs’ stars

Ginobili had a bruised hip, and coach Gregg Popovich said he decided to give Duncan and Parker the night off in Denver following the Spurs’ overtime win at Golden State Monday night. Same with Finley.

I love how you left out this part:


"Parker makes the All-Star team, becomes hard to deal with, so we're going to sit him and teach him a lesson," Popovich joked. "Duncan says he wants to renegotiate his contract, so I said, 'Sit, I'm not talking to you.' "

Popovich owns.

They were probably going to lose without Manu so he sat the good players and got them rest. Terrible.

Didn't see that part, but if I did, I probably wouldn't have included it anyways.

I'm sure the fans that paid for tickets were happy with that, too.

Didn't see that part, but if I did, I probably wouldn't have included it anyways.

Humor is underrated.

I'm sure the fans that paid for tickets were happy with that, too.
Shouldn't be surprised though, he's shown through a lot of his other actions (like "hack a *" in the 1st quarter) that he doesn't really care what others think.

I'm sorry, did you say something? I'm busy staring at my four championship rings.

Hey Pop, those are ours!

Sit down, I'm not talking to you.

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/images/hunter-ginobili.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/80.jpg

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12354&dateline=1211282052

The San Antonio Spurs’ delay to release any specific information about Manu Ginobili’s right ankle injury has led some opposing GMs to speculate that the injury could be serious. Delaying the announcement until after the Thursday trade deadline would help keep the Spurs from losing any leverage in their ongoing talks.

Spurs officials announced only that Ginobili won’t join them on their road trip and their medical staff continues to study test results on Ginobili’s ankle.

Apparently the Spurs are interested in RJ. If they could get him for 3 of the following: Mason/Bowen/Oberto/Thomas (all expiring next year)

That would be crazy.

YOU BEEN...

THUNDASTRUCK!

They lost to the Thunder. Sounds pretty DONE!

I just knew Zekyl wouldn't let me down.

Zekyl would like that song....

Zekyl would like that song....
Liking it and knowing its shitty chorus are two very different things. I'm much more of an Ian Hunter/Presidents of the USA type....CLEVELAND ROCKS!!

A loss today and the Spurs would go from #2 in the West, to #2 in their own division.

A host of others are creeping up, too.

They lost!

LMAO @ them being done - 2nd in their Division because of the loss today is not done.

We all know they are gonna be right there come playoff time - they always are.

It's just a shame they get so much fucking credit for being a Dynasty while we get very little.

Sure we only won 1 title and went to 2 NBA Finals but how many times did we finish in the Top 4? 6? Fucking hell - give us some credit.

IMO, finishing in the top 4 a lot does not constitute a dynasty. Remember when the Bills made 4 straight super bowls and lost them all? They are not a dynasty. They were a great team, but no dynasty.

I disagree.

To finish in the Top 4 of any sport 6 years in a row, with a Top 2 finish and a #1 finish is mighty impressive and considering that we had essentially the same team for 99% of that time I'd say that we were.

I guess it just depends on what you think = a dynasty.

Impressive, yes, but not a dynasty to me. JMHO

This ain't college. Making the Final Four in the NBA doesn't mean shit to me if they don't win it all.

I just read what I posted. God, what would this place be like without my opinions?

They lost!

LMAO @ them being done - 2nd in their Division because of the loss today is not done.



If you don't understand the criteria for being "DONE.", then you have some reading to catch up on.

This ain't college. Making the Final Four in the NBA doesn't mean shit to me if they don't win it all.


See, I gotta disagree.

Right, HANG THE FINAL FOUR BANNERS AT THE PALACE.

CHANGE THE STREET ADDRESS TO "12 'ALMOST CHAMPIONSHIP' DRIVE"

BETTER THAN DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIPS

Oh boy, I'm feeling it. This is going to be a good morning.

IMO, finishing in the top 4 a lot does not constitute a dynasty. Remember when the Bills made 4 straight super bowls and lost them all? They are not a dynasty. They were a great team, but no dynasty.

If those Bills teams were great teams, don't you think they would have at least won one? Or do you think those Giants, Cowboys, and Redskins teams were just greater?

Well, I'm sure there's a post that has vanished here.

I typed:

"Considering Ben, Sheed, Prince, Rip and Billups did 99% of the work I'd consider that particular unit a dynasty. At the very least that unit should be held in higher regard than it was/is" or something very close to that.

The Spurs are 3.5 games from missing the playoffs altogether (maybe 4, depending on tiebreaks).

It prolly won't happen, but this place will smell like my farts for months if it does.

Well, I'm sure there's a post that has vanished here.

I typed:

"Considering Ben, Sheed, Prince, Rip and Billups did 99% of the work I'd consider that particular unit a dynasty. At the very least that unit should be held in higher regard than it was/is" or something very close to that.
I definitely agree that Ben, Sheed, Prince, Rip, Billups as a lineup should be held in a MUCH higher regard than they are. How many games in a row did they start together?

^ 7

A lot lol

Who the fuck knows - don't ask questions like that. I ain't searching the internets for answers. Make one up and run with it.

They played almost 100 per season/together for something like 4 or 5 years.

My answer is 457 games played together - not started together - played together.

Now somecunt can go look it up and tell me how off I was

The Pistons will never get enough credit for what they accomplished in those years. That said they were NOT a dynasty. A dynasty is winning multiple championships and clearly dominating the field during a short period of time (in some exceptional cases long periods).

Dynasty is for the Niner's of the 80's, the Celtics and Lakers of the 80's (that hurt), the Jordanaires (that hurt) or the Gretzky Oilers. You can make arguments for the 90's Cowboys, the Shaq and Kobe Lakers or for the Spurs. If you look over a not too long span of time I feel that Ken Holland created a dynasty with our Wings as well.

But there is no way the Pistons, as great and underrated as they may be, should even be near a discussion on dynasties.

To me the Pistons of the 2000's are like the Dallas Stars recently. They've been good for a while (until this year, which is similar to the Pistons). They won a title, but were never the dominant or favorite team. They had a good 6-7 year run of being in contention though.

To me the Pistons of the 2000's are like the Dallas Stars recently. They've been good for a while (until this year, which is similar to the Pistons). They won a title, but were never the dominant or favorite team. They had a good 6-7 year run of being in contention though.
Solid example. I was trying to think of a team from another sport that fit the profile.

Solid example. I was trying to think of a team from another sport that fit the profile.


Bash Brother A's? They had 5-6 good years there, but with a couple meh ones mixed in.

Braves. They were regular division champs and did well, had that great pitching.

Solid example. I was trying to think of a team from another sport that fit the profile.

yeah, i would say the dominant teams were Detroit, Colorado and NJ during that time. Dallas was just a good team that only got the job done once.

The Stars and the Braves are great comparisons. I think the A's one is real solid too. How about the Suns (over more than one decade) for basketball? Or Stockton, Malone and their Jazz teams?

Gotta get a title DE.

Ok. You're right. So it's a competitive, maybe even dominant team that never lived up to it's potential and only got one championship.

Hey Gl'enn, how does first place in the division sound?

^ no rush.

Thanks for your opportunistic post after that great 1 point win at home over the Warriors last night. Opportunistic posts are always welcomed in this thread.

Actually, winning the division might make the playoff ouster more painful for Spurs fans, so I'm cool with it.

Thanks for your opportunistic post after that great 1 point win at home over the Warriors last night. Opportunistic posts are always welcomed in this thread.

Actually, winning the division might make the playoff ouster more painful for Spurs fans, so I'm cool with it.

Are you mocking him for mocking you for throwing a party about one loss?

YES!

I was just wondering how long will this thread go on. I mean it's been over a year already. If they finally end up being done in say, 5 years from now, does Gl'enn still get to say, "See! I fucking told you so, ya snarky bastards!"

well, since they did not win it all last year they were in fact DONE.

This thread shall live until they win it again.

As long as Pops is coach, they'll be in the hunt.

Are you mocking him for mocking you for throwing a party about one loss?

This is a sharp young man right here.

The thread ends when the core of Duncan/Parker/Manu is no longer together.

This is a sharp young man right here.

It shouldn't have taken a sharp young man, I thought it was sufficiently over the top to be obvious.

I spoon feed most of this shit to you cheerleaders, and you still don't get it.

The thread ends when the core of Duncan/Parker/Manu is no longer together.

:emo kid:

That's gonna be years.

Do I need to swat this shit?

I haven't sent shit into the Stands since I returned and am looking forward to it.

The thread ends when the core of Duncan/Parker/Manu is no longer together.

But doesn't that mean you're answering your own question? Aren't you then saying that no, the Spurs are not done until the core of Duncan/Partker/Flop boy is no longer together?

This would not be the thread to swat , IMHO.

This is a Top Ten all-time thread (both in terms of views and in terms of relevance).

Shit's legendary.

Now, ordinarily I would expect the thread to now get swatted based on those comments alone, but here's the deal, if it's swatted, it's because y'all are afraid that I'm right. If you think I'm wrong and that the Spurs will indeed win another title with the "big 3" before they are broken up, then leave it here and I'll face the music on the big stage.

But doesn't that mean you're answering your own question? Aren't you then saying that no, the Spurs are not done until the core of Duncan/Partker/Flop boy is no longer together?

See last post.

I say they are DONE. winning titles with this core, others disagree. If the core ceases to exist without another title, I am indisputably 100% right, so there is no need for the debate to continue, thus the thread isn't needed anymore.

If they win another ring with this core, the thread is also no longer needed, except for me to admit the wrongness of my ways and for me to take ridicule. But that's not going to happen.

Well, if it's title or bust on the done question, I think you might be right. At least I agree that it's something interesting to watch and debate on for a while longer and that the thread shouldn't be swatted.

By the way, this isn't a new concept: http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6249

edit- wrong link the first time

This is a Top Ten all-time thread (both in terms of views and in terms of relevance).


Top 3, actually.

GD - I think you're right - they're done winning itles with this core.

Hardly a bold statement (like me/Orlando/no playoffs 12 months in advance) but good for you:

Throw it out there and see what happens.

EDIT: LMAO - You linked to my Orlando prediction thread

Too many people here play it safe all the time, IMO.

Call it like you see it and let the chips fall where they may.

Too many people here play it safe all the time, IMO.

Call it like you see it and let the chips fall where they may.

Exactly - what's the worst that can happen? You'll be wrong?

As Heath Ledger would Ouijiboard: Why so serious?

Oh noes!


Spurs F Oberto to miss 2 games

SAN ANTONIO -- Spurs forward Fabricio Oberto will miss San Antonio's next two games because of an irregular heartbeat.

Oberto felt his heart beating abnormally Thursday, and tests confirmed he was experiencing atrial fibrillation. His heart is back to normal, but Oberto will not play Friday night against the Los Angeles Clippers or Sunday against New Orleans so he can be monitored by doctors.

He is averaging 2.7 points and 2.7 rebounds off the bench.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4GGLF_enUS213&q=%22are+the+spurs+done%22

lols

I really need to start looking into that If you don't like, don't read thing.

....THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN.........BACK IN TOWN.......

....THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN.........BACK IN TOWN.......

droll...

But that Spurs/Hornets opening round series would have some appeal to me. (As long as Chandler can get back relatively healthy)

But that Spurs/Hornets opening round series would have some appeal to me. (As long as Chandler can get back relatively healthy)

Do you think the Hornets would get 'em this time around?

That ending was awesome, I lol'd.

I agree that they're done winning championships, but I still look like a foo for picking them to be seeded 6-8, IMO.

That av and location are great.

YOU BEEN... (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=AjvXRF7WUeZdbWanNC422CW8vLYF?gid=200903 3124)

The Rockets and Spurs did both clinch playoffs spots, so there's that.

As a Spurs-hater, about the best I can hope for is for them to lose home court adv. and fall to the 7th seed, but it's improbable that they'll lose another 2.5 games in the standings with only 8 to play, but who knows?

The Spurs are old, they're ancient, they're DONE.

And the excuses begin...


Ginobili sees doctors about stiff ankle

By Jeff McDonald - Express-News

CLEVELAND — Spurs guard Manu Ginobili left Quicken Loans Arena on Sunday afternoon displaying nary a trace of a limp.

He was on his way to meet with the Spurs' medical staff to determine whether the stiffness he felt in his right ankle during the team's 101-81 loss to Cleveland was anything to be alarmed about.

“I was a little sore,” Ginobili said. “I played a lot of minutes (Friday) in Indiana, with not much rest in between. I really don't know the reason it was sore. I'll talk to the doctors, and we'll see. I want to see if it's normal or not.”

Ginobili had four points in 22 minutes and 36 seconds against the Cavs and missed all six of his 3-point shots. He did not play in the fourth quarter.

It was Ginobili's sixth game back after missing 19 games with a stress reaction in the ankle. He said the ankle began getting stiff Sunday after he went to the bench early in the game.

Daily day-to-day: Tim Duncan, meanwhile, is still playing through sore knees, though it was difficult to tell what role that played in his six-point performance against the Cavs.

Before the game, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said he was hopeful that he might have Duncan at full strength by the time the playoffs come around.

“His health is kind of going to be a day-to-day thing,” Popovich said. “There's no meter. He doesn't jump on a scale. If he was feeling bad, he's not likely to tell you. He just plays.”

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/8214724_36_7.jpg


Why the Spurs can not be champs


This team lives or dies on the basis of its outside shooting. Too bad the combined jump-shooting of Parker, Manu Ginobili, TD, and Roger Mason added up to an inept 4-18.



After playing so many minutes when Ginobili was injured, Mason looks to be just about worn out.



After spending so much time on the injured list, Ginobili is totally out of synch.



At age 36, Finley can no longer play adequate defense and has been reduced to being a spot-shooter.



Ditto for the almost 38-year-old Bruce Bowen.



Kurt Thomas is 36 and can still bang and hit open 15-footers. But his lateral quickness is history, and his rapidly vanishing north-south speed was exposed when Ilguaskas beat him downcourt on a slow-motion fast break.



Duncan tallied only six points on 2-7 shooting, and missed all three of his jumpers. TD's knees are undoubtedly aching, and his quadriceps tendonitis is still bothersome — which is why he only played 26 rather passive minutes. However, it's also quite evident that Duncan is finally paying the price for playing 893 regular-season and 155 playoff games thus far in his 12 years in the NBA. Given his lack of bulging musculature, the pounding he takes (and gives) in his pivotal battles, and his 32 birthdays, it's undeniable that Duncan isn't the game-in-game-out force that he once was.



Parker is still a jet-footed force who can get to the hole against almost any defender and almost any defense. But his jumper — 3-7 — is still unreliable.


In sum, the Spurs are too slow afoot to play the kind of smothering defense that was the trademark of their most recent championships. Moreover, their erratic outside shooting enables opponents to jam the paint and make life miserable for Duncan.

For sure, TD, TP and MG could conceivably rouse themselves and cause trouble in the second season.

But, while the Cavs are on the upswing, the Spurs' mini-dynasty is over.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9412330/Cavs,-Spurs-going-in-opposite-directions

Ginobili's out for the season. The Spurs are DONE, at least for this season.

SAN ANTONIO—Having returned Tuesday after missing 19 games with an ankle injury, Spurs guard Manu Ginobili expressed frustration with his level of play, saying that his ability to draw offensive fouls by flopping to the floor with little or no provocation was still only at "about 85 percent." "The ankle is healthy, but my flailing and splaying still aren't where they need to be," said Ginobili, who has begun to practice windmilling his arms and falling backward during shoot-arounds. "I'm used to throwing myself 10, sometimes 12 feet down court. At this point, I'm lucky if I'm getting 8 on a good flop. My wailing is good, but I need to be hitting the floor a lot harder than the guy hit me, if I was hit. I can't catch myself with my hands like I did in the second quarter tonight. That was bush league." Ginobili then flung himself out of the locker room, slid backward onto a bus, and tumbled wildly into his suburban home.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/injured_manu_ginobili_only?utm_source=onion_rss_da ily

That's rich.

That was fantastic.

Pure awesomeness.

If only I could sum it all up in a single four-letter word, in all caps, with a period at the end.


Spurs limping into the playoffs
By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports
Apr 8, 4:57 pm EDT

San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has a saying for these moments: We will or we won’t. So Pop threw up his hands again this week and shrugged his shoulders. The Spurs know there’s no replacing Manu Ginobili. They’ll pledge to play hard and smart, and they’ll try to control whatever else they can control. In the end, they’ll win or they won’t. No matter what happens, they’ll come back next season and try to do it again.

But deep down, the Spurs know something else: At some point, there won’t be a next season. Not for Tim Duncan. If the past few months have proven anything, it’s that the clock has finally begun to tick for the Spurs and their greatest player.

For all the concern about Ginobili’s ankles, the Spurs’ success in these playoffs was always hinged to Duncan’s health. For weeks, Duncan has told friends how much his knees have bothered him, and that’s telling for one reason: He never complains about his injuries.

Duncan’s production picked up over the past week, but Wednesday brought further evidence of how much he’s labored. Though the Spurs had stopped using Duncan in both games of back-to-backs, Popovich relented after Duncan played well Tuesday in Oklahoma City. The move was a mistake. Duncan offered little, scoring just four points as the Spurs wasted a 19-point lead and lost to Portland.

“I don’t want a hero,” Popovich told Duncan after he finally pulled him off the court. “We need you healthy.”

The Spurs think they can still be a tough out in the playoffs without Ginobili – but only if Duncan is effective.

“That,” one Spurs official cautioned, “is the big question.”

The Spurs have always understood the fragility of success. To win championships, you need to be good, but you also need to be healthy and lucky. Too often this season, they haven’t been all three. Even with Ginobili and Duncan at full speed, the Spurs’ hopes of beating the Los Angeles Lakers were fleeting. The Lakers are that good and they figure to get better after Andrew Bynum returns.

Trailing by a point after the first quarter of Sunday’s game in Cleveland, Popovich was asked by an ABC sideline reporter what the Spurs needed to do next.

“We have to be as good as the Lakers,” he said, “and we’re not.”

But with Duncan and Ginobili both healthy? With Tony Parker enjoying the best season of his career? The Spurs would have entered their series against the Lakers with a chance, a small chance, but still the best one the West could offer against the conference’s reigning champs. A year ago, Ginobili entered the West finals on a bad left ankle, and the Spurs pointed to his ineffectiveness as one reason why the Lakers overwhelmed them so easily.

Now? A stress fracture in Ginobili’s right ankle is expected to sideline him through the end of the playoffs. Though Ginobili complained of stiffness during Sunday’s loss to the Cavs, he told the medical staff he was feeling fine the following morning when he went in for tests. The results dazed him and his teammates.

The Spurs know they can’t replace Ginobili’s fire. Unlike any player in the franchise’s history, he thrives on pressure. On Wednesday, the Spurs signed Marcus Williams for help. They needed Reggie Miller.

Most frustrating for the Spurs: Ginobili’s injury likely eliminates another opportunity for Duncan to win his fifth championship. As much as the Spurs would prefer to not look into the future, Duncan won’t be around forever.

Popovich has said he’ll retire 30 seconds after Duncan, and there’s probably as much truth in that as humor. Parker has jokingly asked Duncan to give him enough advance warning of his retirement, so he, too, can clear out. Even some of the team’s longtime business employees plan to leave when Duncan does.

When Duncan considered signing with the Orlando Magic nine years ago, former Spurs forward Sean Elliott pointed to one of his teammate’s SUVs to explain what awaited the franchise should Duncan not stay.

“See that Suburban over there,” Elliott said. “Drive it to the Mexico border and leave it there for three days. Then go back and see how much has been stripped.

“That’s what this team will look like if Tim Duncan leaves. There might be a window switch left.”

Duncan now will leave behind at least four championships, along with the window switch. He recently told legendary Boston Celtics center Bill Russell he wants a fifth title before retiring; he’ll have three years left on his contract after this season to chase one. But with Duncan, the Spurs are forever in win-now mode. That’s one reason they considered taking on Vince Carter’s burdensome contract at the trade deadline and why they also tried to make a three-for-one deal for Marcus Camby. If Duncan needs help, the Spurs will try to get it for him, future be damned.

The Spurs built their championship rosters by plugging in experienced role players around their three stars. Duncan, however, is the one who makes it all work. So when he struggles as he did the past two months, it doesn’t matter whether Ginobili is in the lineup, the Spurs are also going to struggle.

This fall, Duncan looked as fresh as he has in years. He spent the summer throwing truck tires and boxing, and reported to training camp lean and hungry. Popovich encouraged him to show more confidence in his jump shot to also reduce the pounding he would take in the post. Few big men played better during the season’s first half.

Eventually, however, the aching in Duncan’s knees slowed him. This is what comes from the wear and tear of 12 NBA seasons, from enduring all those postseason battles. Already, Duncan has played in 155 playoff games, essentially adding another two full seasons to his career.

Larry Bird recently told the Boston Herald that Kevin Garnett’s injury troubles this season were inevitable for someone who had played so hard for so long. The same holds true for Duncan.

“It’s gonna catch up with you sooner or later,” Bird said.

The Spurs don’t have time to worry about that. The playoffs start next week and they won’t have Ginobili. They’ll need to lean on Duncan as they always have, and they’ll hope he feels as good in April as he did in November. As Popovich likes to say: They’ll win or they won’t.

And if they don’t?

For now, there’s always next season.

15,279 views LMAO

It wasn't like GD said there wasn't a God here folks. Just that he thought the Spurs were done.

^GD apologist

It cracks me up. The "Are the Pistons done" prolly got half those views.

I don't know why I loled so hard when I glanced at the view total.

Well, at first we were trying to figure out what exactly he was saying (which took some time since he didn't want to nail it down), then we took some time calling out how lame his stance was, then you have to figure in all the time Gl'enn comes back to re-read his own posts because he loves himself so much.

I'm actually surprised he was able to keep it below 20,000.

^looks like that "homer" comment made in another thread stung a lil' bit

Just trying to keep the elderly informed. They tend to forget stuff.

Also, you used to have a sense of humor. Now you seem really paranoid all the time.

I find the Spurs being DONE. to be extremely funny, so the sense of humor lives!

See what I did there?

Just trying to keep the elderly informed. They tend to forget stuff.

Also, you used to have a sense of humor. Now you seem really paranoid all the time.

Yeah, it has evolved hasn't it? I'm going to go read the entire thread again as soon as I finish more important things like rearranging my sock drawer and counting my pubie hairs.

Slow roasting over an open fire....

"Tim Duncan Hams It Up For Crowd By Arching Left Eyebrow Slightly"

SAN ANTONIO—Spurs forward Tim Duncan engaged in a rare display of showmanship during Tuesday's win over the Thunder, punctuating a 10-foot jumper with a nearly imperceptible upward motion of his left eyebrow. "I saw him do it, and I was like, 'What! What was that?'" said teammate Michael Finley, who compared the display to a 2006 game in which Duncan gave the crowd an unexpected and nearly flamboyant thumbs-up. "We were playing pretty flat, but Timmy flickered his eyebrow like that and it energized the whole team. Everyone thinks he's so stoic, but he knows how to have a good time. Once, in the locker room, he almost winked. Wild." When asked about this display, Tim Duncan denied any intent to show anyone up and personally called every member of the Thunder organization to apologize.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/tim_duncan_hams_it_up_for?utm_source=onion_rss_dai ly

Greg Pompusassvich decided to "rest" Duncan yesterday because they were playing the Kings, whom, by some accounts, have quit on their coach and have pissed off their ownership.

The gimmick almost backfired on Mr. Genius when the Spurs needed a three pointer at the buzzer to beat the Kings.
I would have loved to have seen them drop a spot or two in the seedings because of that, but no luck.

Fuck the Spurs.

Any team that is blessed with David Robinson and then Tim Duncan deserves a decade of hell.

And apparently that winning three shouldn't have even counted due to a shot clock violation.

The man is a genius!!! (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlNFqOodKXTfze1l7a79Ch28vLYF?slug=jy-spursmavs042409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Who do Jou think is in worse shape Gl'enn, Pistons or Spurs?

Tough call.

I'd have to say that the Pistons are probably in better shape going forward because of the flexibility.

Yeah, I forgot about Joe being King.

Being in the East helps, too.

San Antonio will not have cap space until 2010 (when Ginobili’s contract expires), but there will be plenty of talented free agents who may accept the mid-level exception this summer. Expect the Spurs to make a run at Rasheed Wallace, the longtime starting power forward for the Pistons.

One franchise’s implosion could help delay another’s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/sports/basketball/28dribble.html?_r=1&ref=sports

^Nice article that even touches on the Pistons vs. Spurs in DONEdom.


The Spurs have become too old in spots (Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto), and their young additions (Roger Mason, George Hill) have fallen flat. They have no great assets to trade, outside of their three All-Stars.

So all those players listed, besides Oberto, are SF's. What are they going to do there? They'll need someone that can check Kobe to get anywhere. I understand signing Sheed, but then what do they do at SF?

They owe their pick to OKC for Kurt Thomas. The best pick they have is #37 so that is their best chance to get a SF.

http://www.maniact.com/Images_T-shirts/Hannibal%20I%20Love%20It%20When%20a%20Plan%20Comes %20Together%20A-Team_small.gif

kudos

I'll hold off on the actual celebration until the "Big 3" are split.

There's no shame in losing if you're a star short, especially if your other stars put the kind of effort in that Tim & Tony did.

http://www.maniact.com/Images_T-shirts/Hannibal%20I%20Love%20It%20When%20a%20Plan%20Comes %20Together%20A-Team_small.gif

Nice.

Fixed:


I'll hold off on the actual celebration until Manu has a season ending back injury from flopping.

There's no shame in losing if you're a star short, especially if your other stars put the kind of effort in that Tim & Tony did.

The shame is in not having enough help, which was one of the tenets of the DONE. proclamation.

This is from yesterday afternoon (before the Spurs were eliminated).

More Spurs/Pistons comparisons.


Out with the old, in with a new definition of 'dynasty'

By Vincent Thomas, for NBA.com
Posted Apr 28 2009 2:42PM

For more than half of this decade, whenever you would get with your crew in mid-April and forecast some possible Finals matchups, I bet there was a consensus on the hook-up you didn't want to see. "Man, I'll really take any Finals other than Spurs-Pistons." Don't front. That happened every spring, ever since the young, insurgent, hungry, swashbuckling Pistons took the squabbling, entitled Lakers' supposed birthright in the 2004 Finals. From that point on, the Spurs and Pistons arguably have been the two most viable contenders in the league. They were consistently excellent powerhouses.

Those days are done. The Cavs swept the Pistons over the weekend. The Spurs are down 3-1 to a Dallas team that could be described, at best, as dangerous. The two squads that dominated the last half of the decade are no longer relevant. Their eras have ended.

The Spurs Era effectively ended when coach Gregg Popovich sat Tim Duncan and Tony Parker for most of the 88-67 gaffling they took in Game 3. That was a white flag. Then Pop joked about it in the postgame press conference. The Spurs are an old, thin squad playing on fumes, bringing what looks like a musket to fights with squads like the younger, deeper, big-gun Lakers, Blazers and Nuggets.

The Pistons Era was done as soon as Chauncey Billups left Motown. I'm sure Joe Dumars thought he could still take a crack at contending with Iverson, but then he watched Iverson try to play for a real team and said, "Yeah. 2010 it is." (That Dumars could have drafted one of those 2010 commodities in 2003, is beside the point ... I guess.)

So here we are, at the close of the decade, with this question: Can we consider the '03-'08 Spurs and/or the '03-'08 Pistons a dynasty? Before you answer, know that during that six-year span, the Spurs averaged 59 wins, won three 'ships and when they were ousted, it was always by the eventual Western Conference champ. Detroit, during that same span, averaged 56 wins, won a title and advanced to the conference finals each year. That, folks, is dogged success ... so long as you don't define success strictly in the sense of winning the whole thing.

Dynasties are tough to gauge. Is a squad that wins back-to-back titles a dynasty, as opposed to a squad that wins three in six years? Do you even have to win multiple titles to be a dynasty? Or can it be a dynasty if a team gets to "the brink" a bunch of times and dominates for an extended period? Can dynasties overlap?

Some dynasties need no discussion. The '70s Steelers, '80s 49ers, '90s Cowboys, '00s Patriots. Dynasties. But what about the '70s Cowboys? They went to the Super Bowl six times and won twice. What about my Buffalo Bills that went to four straight Super Bowls in the early '90s but lost each one? (Damn you, Scott Norwood). The Bills were the AFC's quintessential power for four straight years. That's not a dynasty?

We know the Jeter-Torre Yankees were a dynasty, but what about the '77-'81 Mr. October Yanks? They went to three Series and won back-to-back titles in '77 and '78. What about the '90s Atlanta Braves? The Braves went to five Series in 10 years (not to mention three more NLCSs) and won the whole thing in '95. That's tenured power, right there. Are the '03-'08 Red Sox a dynasty? Two Series wins in five years.

The '60s Celtics and '80s Lakers and '90s Bulls were dynasties. But what about the '80-'88 Celtics? They didn't win back-to-back championships, but they won three 'ships in nine seasons while they averaged 61 wins. They also trotted out the best single-season team of the decade, the '86 champs that went 67-15 and lost only one game at the Garden the whole season. Were the '80s Lakers really a dynasty when the Celtics of that era -- and 76ers, really -- submitted truly dominant and powerful resumes, too? (Uh, yeah, they were.)

You see how precarious this is? So, I'm giving us an out. We can now refer to teams two ways. Some squads are dynasties, other squads are "dynastic." Dynasties are the real thing, dynastic squads are the teams that fall a little short, but exhibit many of the characteristics that identify dynasties. Here are the criteria: A dynasty is a team that wins, at least, three titles with a cast that features, at least, three recurring principal characters (three players or two players and a coach). And if the three titles are spread out, the team has to remain a "power" during the non-title years.

That weeds out the impostors, like the mid-'90s Houston Rockets, who won back-to-back trophies but finished with fewer than 50 wins two seasons. But it also shafts the '87-'91 Zeke-Dumars-Daly Pistons that produced two titles and a five-year Playoff-run where they yanked Eastern dominance from the Celtics, then League preeminence from the Lakers and subdued the upstart Bulls. To reiterate -- the Bad Boys vanquished, at one time or another, the three greatest franchises of the modern era and grabbed back-to-back trophies and -- while they were at it -- changed the way the game was played for a good 15 years. But guess what? Dynastic.

I love my Bills, but they weren't a dynasty. My Bills were dynastic. Reggie Jackon's Yankees? Dynastic. The new millennium Red Sox? Dynastic. '90s Braves? Dynastic. The Young-Rice 49ers? Dynastic. The Doc-Malone-Cunningham 76ers? Dynastic.

But the '80s Celtics? Ahhh. Dynasty. The Staubach-Landry Cowboys? Dynasty.

The Billups-Sheed-Rip Pistons, for all their prolonged excellence were not a dynasty. They let D-Wade and the Heat sully their 64-win '06 season and a terribly unqualified Cavs squad deebo'd them in '07. But, the Spurs, no matter if they won back-to-back 'ships or not, were a dynasty. That back-to-back rule is arbitrary. If a team wins three championships in five years, that team is a dynasty. Period.

Next spring, in the first postseason of a new decade, the Spurs Dynasty and the Dynastic Pistons will be history and I'll finally be able breath a sigh of relief, assured that the two squads won't slow-ball me to death in June. And that, actually, is probably the greatest testament to just how good they were the decade before. One dynastic, the other a sho 'nuff dynasty. They'll be missed ... just not too much.

Vincent Thomas writes "The Commish" column for SLAM Magazine and is a contributing commentator for ESPN. His "From The Floor" column appears weekly on NBA.com. Vince invites you to email him at vincethomas79@gmail.com or follow him on twitter at twitter.com/VinceCAThomas.

In poking around a bit on Spurs fansites, it's oddly amusing to see them cling to Sheed as their hope and salvation for the future.

Is he that much better than Horry was for them?

I don't see how they are going to get past Kobe with no viable SF on the roster.

I don't see how they are going to get past Kobe with no viable SF on the roster.
I kind of like Udoka, and they could bring him back, I suppose.

They've got Bowen signed for $4m for next year, but they hid him for most of the year and he's probably about done. The $4m is not fully guaranteed, so he could just be let go.

Finley can play a little at SF, but at this point in his career, he's best as a specialist/role player at SG. And he can opt out of his $2.5m if he wants to, which actually might help them some if he did.

Manu has an expiring deal this year, just about $11m.

Would they move him to re-tool?

Manu has an expiring deal this year, just about $11m.

Would they move him to re-tool?

only if they get another tool as big as Manu

I hope to god that Joe doesn't go after Manu, I think I would die.

S&T Sheed for him, lol.

Obviously, short-handed teams being killed in the playoffs = done.

Riiiggghhhttt...

Obviously, short-handed teams being killed in the playoffs = done.

Riiiggghhhttt...

Not quite, but short-handed teams with weak benches that can't answer the call when a starter goes down or gets in foul trouble, maybe.

Their bench has been highly suspect for two years now, and it finally came back and bit them.

Now they don't have the resources to re-tool without dealing one of the "big 3".

IMO.

Yes, they should have had another Manu on the bench next to the real Manu waiting to "answer the call".

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. You do love to twist my words, don't you?

You can continue to believe that I'm the only one that sees this, but you're living a lie.

And I know you know it, too.

You dismissed his point by saying they should have been able to handle a loss to (at worst) their third best player as though any team could lose a Manu and still challenge for a championship. If I were going to put words into your mouth, I wouldn't make them so dumb.

Even Parker said they would have had a really hard time winning the series with Ginobili.

They're a flawed team, and it finally came home to roost, Ginobili injury or not.

Sorry if you don't like it.

LOL, like I give a shit about whether they are "flawed" or not. I've only ever cared about your argument, not the Spurs themselves. Just like now. I made fun of your "that's why you have benches, to take the place of your all-star" comment. That's what the "volcanoes are done" statement was about.

So Glenn, when will the Tayshaun-for-Ginobili trade happen? :)

Maybe Joe can get Pop next year when the Spurs fans revolt on him (read the comments here, lol). Remember my Avery Johnson coaching the Spurs prediction? j/k

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Carlesimo_says_Spurs_run_isnt_done.html?

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc91/Timewalker/san-antonio-spurs-piss.gif

As for the Spurs, it's another example of how their superior cap management allows them to make deals that aren't available to a lot of other teams. Because the Spurs had three players on short-term deals and two of them weren't fully guaranteed, they were able to send out three role players and get back a starting small forward. Jefferson should provide a dramatic upgrade from the Michael Finley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=242)-Bowen combo that manned the position a season ago, and he adds a desperately needed shot creator to take some of the heat off Tim Duncan (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=215), Tony Parker (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1015) and the increasingly brittle Manu Ginobili (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=272).
That said, the Spurs took a larger risk on this deal than we're used to seeing from them. The deal basically takes San Antonio out of the 2010 free-agent market since Jefferson is owed $15 million in 2010-11 (he has an opt-out that he'd be insane to exercise), and one wonders if he's an ideal fit with the Spurs. Jefferson has been a high-volume scorer with middling efficiency, and really has been riding off his reputation a bit the past two seasons. At this point, he's one of the league's most overpaid players.
However, one thing that may have caught San Antonio's attention was his 39.7 percent mark on 3-pointers in 2008-09, a career high that he set by taking far more attempts than he'd taken in the past. The Spurs ask their small forwards to spot up in the corners as much as any team in the league, and Jefferson made 54-of-118 (45.9 percent) from those spots a season ago. If that wasn't a fluke and he nails it consistently, he can really make opponents pay for doubling Duncan, Parker or Ginobili.
The deal surprisingly also makes small-market San Antonio a tax payer, putting the Spurs $4.5 million over the tax line for this season without a real obvious remedy for getting back under. They could save some by trading either Matt Bonner (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1996) or Roger Mason (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1721) for a non-guaranteed deal, but at that point they'd be cutting into bone.
The other interesting wrinkle will be whether the Spurs try to re-sign Bowen or Oberto to minimum contracts once the Bucks waive them. Bowen in particular has been a huge part of San Antonio's defensive philosophy, and even in his diminished state he could have value as an elder statesmen and occasional rotation player. Oberto could probably make more money in Europe at this point, so it may be the last we've seen of him on this side of the pond.
Regardless, the big takeaway for the Spurs is that they just rolled the dice on Jefferson's potential to pry their championship window open for another year or two. The threesome of Duncan, Ginobili and Parker clearly didn't have enough help this past season. If Jefferson can make it a fearsome foursome and retain his improved 3-point touch from the corners, it could launch the Spurs back into the title hunt.
And the other teams in the West have to be shaking their heads, because at first it seems unfathomable that the Spurs could get a 20-point scorer for three spare parts. But follow the money, and it all makes sense.

Tim Duncan is still old, right? There have been no irregularities in the time-space continuum?

They don't have the size to get past LA IMO, but they can certainly contend with anyone else in the West if RJ fits in.

Too much $ tied up in those 4 old dudes, IMO. (Well, Parker's not that old, I guess.)

I am surprised that they'll be paying the tax, though.

Can they still sign Sheed to the MLE? That would be a perfect offseason if they accomplished that...

No reason they can't. It now looks like they are at about 68 mil in salary if they don't extend anyone or pick up any options. Not sure what the tax number would be, but they are certainly allowed to use the MLE.

These are the 7 contracts that would take up 75 mil in salaries (assuming full MLE for Sheed):

PG Parker/Hill
SG Manu/Mason
SF RJ/
PF TD/Bonner
C Sheed/

They'd need to keep a few other players to fill out the roster and would be in the tax level for sure. Thats what happens with close to 60 mil in their top 4 players. The issue is they'd be pretty much stuck so they'd better win it all with that core.

I wonder if they'll even use the MLE if they get too far over. $5m = $10m