i dont like posting in the PBA forum that much. But this is backwards excuse making for Flip to me.

Saunders, who replaced Larry Brown after last season, is not the reason the Pistons didn't make it to the NBA Finals. Clearly, the players are to blame for missing so many shots.

yet....

Shooting jump shots is fine in the regular season, but in the postseason you have to be able to score inside, as well.
:confused: Man I almost envy the lakers and celtics eras of organization and media methods. They had no problem blaming the coach, and moving on for a better leader to run their squads, rather than figuring their stars fucked the coach over(which i dont feel is possible). We say its a win or YOU failed as a coach job. i guess we were just playing.:rolleyes:

The Pistons missed an awful lot of easy baskets. In the context of this thread, you have to decide if that's because:

a) they just suck offensively
b) other forces made them suck
c) Flip made them suck

Let's go player by player:

1) Tayshaun: He missed a few bunnies and had a couple bad games, but by and large performed well, especially at home. Some may quibble over his 12 ppg on 42% on the road and cite that as a coaching failing, but that's still a better % on the road than Chauncey, Rip, or Rasheed shot overall. If there's any coaching failing to be had on Tay's offense, it involves Flip getting him to be more aggressive on the road, but that's relatively minor.

2) Rip: He was clearly hurt by his ankle, but at least he tried hard and played like he gave a shit, and played lots of minutes against some tough defensive covers. He didn't have very great judgement... some stupid shots and TOs, but that's been Rip's modus operandi. The only way that I blame Flip for Rip's offensive performance is not establishing Delfino more in the regular season, but MoEvans would've been ok against teams without superstar SGs.

3) Ben: See my rant in another thread about using Ben in the offense more to benefit the team and Flip not getting it, and my rant in another thread for how Ben would be difficult to motivate in a contract year. I could also fault Flip for inability to get his FT situation squared away, but no coach seems to have done that and his decline in FT% over the course of a season is well established. Fuck, Ben shot 28% in the 2004 Finals which we won.

4) Chauncey: I don't know what the fuck to make of Chauncey. He's always had at least some amount of backup, be it Arroyo at the start (though Arroyo would sometimes suck so bad that Chauncey would have to come back in -- bye bye Arroyo) or Lindsey and Delk at the end. He used to know how to move the ball around. I don't get how the fuck Eric Snow found Chauncey's off switch. Does anyone get how Mr. Big Shot turned into Mr. Shot?

5) Rasheed: Yes, there was the ankle, but especially when you compare and contrast that with Rip, Rasheed just stunk up things, and he didn't have any heavyweight matchups at PF to contend with. Two years in a row now, and Udonis fucking Haslem has stood toe-to-toe with Rasheed. I keep going to the question of "if I'm Flip, what would I tell him to do, is he telling Sheed that, and what could Flip do to make Sheed do that?"

Weird... though my post was the last post, if I go to the NBA index, it shows the last person who updated it was Gutz. It's not a browser problem -- other threads show last updated just fine, and refreshing the page reflects that:

The Official Fire Flip Saunders Thread (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
H1Man

06-05-2006 10:33 AM
by Gutz Gatsu Go to last post
250 2,855

So I'm testing to see if this post causes the NBA index to show me as the last poster.

THis thread can die a swift death too.....

Oh, shit.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/14264442p-15077106c.html


Marty Mac's World: Pistons' Saunders sees how a season turns bad

By Martin McNeal -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 12:01 am PDT Tuesday, June 6, 2006

So you're going to be an NBA head coach, again, Mr. Musselman? Well, take your motion-sickness pills and prepare for the ride.

Consider Detroit's Flip Saunders. In a month's time, he went from a guy whom many believed should have received more support for Coach of the Year to a guy whose job stability has been questioned.

Last summer, Saunders fended off job opportunities, knowing he was going to get the Pistons' gig once the organization figured out how much money it would take to ease Larry Brown out the door. Then the Saunders-led Pistons jumped out to a great start and played much of the season's first half with experts believing they had a legitimate chance to post more than the record 72 victories accomplished by the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls. The Pistons finished with a franchise-record 64 victories.

But fast-forward to late in the season, when center Ben Wallace (a free agent-to-be and another huge decision for president Joe Dumars this summer) decided not to re-enter a game in Orlando despite Saunders' repeated requests.

The buzz is that Saunders lost a great deal of respect in the locker room when he talked about Wallace's decision and then told the team it was not going to win the championship because of incidents such as that one.

That did not go over well with the Pistons, and Saunders was told in direct terms by one veteran not to say anything like that again to the team.

As players left the locker room, they saw Saunders being consoled by assistant coach Sidney Lowe. And with that sight, Saunders lost more respect.

When the Pistons struggled in the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Cleveland Cavaliers, Saunders' methods became the target of some of his players, Wallace included. It wasn't as if the Pistons had never sailed through rocky waters, but the loss of respect for Saunders led to leaks in the craft.

And although the Pistons got past the Cavs, the ship ultimately sank against the Miami Heat.

Now, with Saunders set for another three years at $4 million per, what does Dumars do? Perhaps the only thing harder to regain than respect is life itself.

And Wallace, who turns 32 on Sept. 10, will be looking for big bucks in what figures to be his last shot at a huge payday. While he deserves whatever he can get, how much money does a team want to pay for a guy who must not look at any game tape of himself at the offensive end?

His best offensive move is an unchallenged putback. Correction, that's his only move. He has no touch around the basket and shoots many free throws as if they were the first attempts of his life. As great a team defender and rebounder as Wallace is, his position at the offensive end is a liability.

Hey, Eric, good luck, bro.

[smilie=wreck.gif]

Too bad for them. Some of them need a reality check if they think they can run off coaches every year.

And fuck whoever had a problem with flip being pissed about ben refusing to check back in.

Too bad for them. Some of them need a reality check if they think they can run off coaches every year.

And fuck whoever had a problem with flip being pissed about ben refusing to check back in.
same to whoever thinks Flip deserves respect crying on sidney lowes shoulder. Yikes!:eek: :D

Coaches are only allowed to cry when they are happy. not when they are mad.:mad:, and never on your assistant shoulder unless someone died. this is a disgrace.

show me where it said flip was crying, let alone on lowe's shoulder......

As players left the locker room, they saw Saunders being consoled by assistant coach Sidney Lowe. And with that sight, Saunders lost more respect.
c'mon man. Any cat knows thats the nice way of saying he was crying like a bitch. Men dont console Men on GP.

The buzz is that Saunders lost a great deal of respect in the locker room when he talked about Wallace's decision and then told the team it was not going to win the championship because of incidents such as that one.

That did not go over well with the Pistons, and Saunders was told in direct terms by one veteran not to say anything like that again to the team.

As players left the locker room, they saw Saunders being consoled by assistant coach Sidney Lowe. And with that sight, Saunders lost more respect.

Is this shit real? You can't make this kinda stuff up. I have no idea how this franchise went from being a proud model franchise to a soap oper'ish melo drama. Dumars better start bitch slapping some people cause this stuff is getting out of hand.

Let me say what I said when Darko and Arroyo were traded...

The day Davidson decided to not pay the luxury tax is the day the entire karma of the organization changed. If this is the start of a downhill slide to laughdom everyone will look back at that trade as the start of the downhill slide.

(the trade because of him not wanting to pay the LT not because we lost DM and CA).

I totally agree Gecko.

Davidson's decision was, as the kids are saying these days, "bitchmade".

so much drama......i wonder how much of this stuff happens frequently (on this team and others), but is being reported now because of all the perceived turmoil.

i mean, this happened months ago and is coming out now.

i think that Joe D is doing right by keeping Flip. we can't stay contenders by playing musical coaches. we need some bit of continuity and i think Flip deserves a chance at a second season, at least. i don't like excusing the players for any kind of disrespect towards their coach.

I totally agree Gecko.

Davidson's decision was, as the kids are saying these days, "bitchmade".

Yeah, your right, homeslice

right matt, dont know if its worse that it happened, or that its becoming public. the lakers drama being public is one thing, but the pistons usually presented a united front.

joe D even said as much, that players have always bitched about the coaching and questioned the strategy, but it was always behind closed doors (before this year).

The buzz is that Saunders lost a great deal of respect in the locker room when he talked about Wallace's decision and then told the team it was not going to win the championship because of incidents such as that one.

That did not go over well with the Pistons, and Saunders was told in direct terms by one veteran not to say anything like that again to the team.


I don't have a huge problem with Flip being upset about Ben's entry refusal, but I can definately see the 2nd part of it rubbing the players the wrong way. I can imagine one of them thinking "dude wtf do you know about what wins a title and what doesn't?!"
I wonder who the veteran was. Something tells me Lindsey hunter.

Something about the phrasing of that bothers me. the way its worded makes it seem like a declarative, like Flip told them, "hey, you ain't winning the title, and here's why!" rather than "keep this up and we wont win a title".

LOL@Flip telling anyone they cant win a championship


It took him 10 years to get out of the first round.

What will be taken into consideration when replacing Sid Lowe?


“When Flip and I talked about filling that spot, the only thing I said to him is "Hey Flip it's going to have to be somebody that these guys respect the first day they walk in." I don't think that it can be somebody who, over a year or so, he's going to earn their trust over some time. I think where we are as a team, who we are, it almost has to be someone who they respect the first day he walks in the door. That's really the only thing, that's the only parameters that I've kinda put around him.”



http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/dumarsquotes_060605.html


Well if they cant respect Flip, Joe will get an assistant that commands respect...thats something isnt it :p
i want a Del Harris, Carlisimo type of guy, who's been a headcoach and can help flip with defense and adjustments and of course commands respect...there was some buzz earlier it could be Terry Porter...are there other alternatives?

Terry Porter is part of a group that is trying to buy the Trailblazers and their arena. If that were to fall through for some reason, he'd be an option.

Terry Porter is part of a group that is trying to buy the Trailblazers and their arena. If that were to fall through for some reason, he'd be an option.
terry porter doesnt coach any effective defense. it would be sid lowe all over again IMO. in fact it would be ron harper. a guy talking trash abouit how we arent as good as we should be with no ideas of his own.

On Carlos Delfino:
“He's going to be here. We're not trading him and he's not going anywhere. That's one of those situations where I would have liked to see him play more this year and Flip and I have talked about that. I mean he has the skills that he can...put it on the board, break down the defense, give us a rim, play in the open court. We need that, we need more of that. Yesterday, he was getting ready to fly back to Argentina. He and I talked for a long time about how he's looking forward to next year and really wanted to be on the floor playing more next year."

Are you surprised at the criticism of you and Flip Saunders?
“No, not really. I'm not surprised whatsoever. I fully expected criticism. You know, it is what it is. You know, you waste your time if you sit there and try to fight it, debate it, or whatever. You waste your time. I fully expected it. It comes with the territory, and you know that's the way it is. That's the way the media works, one day you’re the greatest the next day you’re gone."

from Delfino's POV, i can't imagine his patience w/ the Pistons promising more PT can go beyond the first half of next season. by the All-Star break, if he's not averaging close to 20 minutes a game, he'll probably ask to be traded and we should oblige.

from Delfino's POV, i can't imagine his patience w/ the Pistons promising more PT can go beyond the first half of next season. by the All-Star break, if he's not averaging close to 20 minutes a game, he'll probably ask to be traded and we should oblige.

by firing the coach.

from Delfino's POV, i can't imagine his patience w/ the Pistons promising more PT can go beyond the first half of next season. by the All-Star break, if he's not averaging close to 20 minutes a game, he'll probably ask to be traded and we should oblige.

by firing the coach.
LMAO

Odd quotes from Flipper.

http://www.startribune.com/507/story/482487.html


Saunders will return

Joe Dumars, Pistons president of basketball operations, made it clear that Saunders will be back for his second year of a four-year contract. The Pistons finished with the best regular-season record in the league.

"Yeah, it's like Joe said. We won 64 games and we played bad for two weeks," Saunders said. "We did still get to the conference finals. We played against a team, that I said from Day 1, I mean a lot of people were picking Miami to win this thing even before the season started.

"So it's not like they weren't supposed to be good. Shaquille is still the most dominating player in the game, and Wade right now has become the most dynamic player in the game. So they've got two guys that are first-team and second-team all-NBA. We had an opportunity, and we let an opportunity slip.

"We gotta do some things. Every year you got to do things to get better. We'll get better. You know, get our bench better, develop our bench more. We'll be ready and make another run at it."


Flip Saunders, whose Detroit Pistons were eliminated by the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals, says the winner of the NBA Finals between the Heat and Dallas Mavericks will be determined by how well Heat center Shaquille O'Neal plays.

"In games that Miami has lost, Shaq has gotten in foul trouble," the former Timberwolves coach said. "If Shaq can stay out of foul trouble and he's able to play, then I think they might be tough to beat. Dallas does have home court [advantage].

"Supposedly (LOL --GD) Dwyane Wade got sick during our series and he's still been kind of sick. If he's not 100 percent, that could change things. I think that if Wade and O'Neal play at their level, they're going to be tough to beat."

he's taking the "we were supposed to lose" route? Joe Get in an assistant some balls man. fuck it, throw laimbeer in.

I wonder how Joe feels about Flip's excuses?

Joe's big thing after we lost was "no excuses" and Flip's spewing nothing but.


Also, I'm changing ths thread title, since he's not getting fired.

I wonder how Joe feels about Flip's excuses?

Joe's big thing after we lost was "no excuses" and Flip's spewing nothing but.


Also, I'm changing ths thread title, since he's not getting fired.
Why? we cant call for his job anymore? :)

I wonder if the starters tank the early part of the season much like the lakers did with del harris after his 60 win season the year before to get him fired. i dont think it would happen. but who knows.