Right now, I have to get to work on finding another back-up point guard, Dumars said.

With Arroyo gone, the Pistons are left with 35-year-old Lindsey Hunter, who is just now getting back into shape after preseason ankle surgery, and rookie Alex Acker, who has yet to play in an NBA game.

The Pistons can also use Carlos Delfino and Tayshaun Prince at the point, if necessary.





There will be one more trade, i refuse to believe Dumars rushed this trade just because Mr. D wants to cut some salary, we could have waited for the offseason to move Darko... so Arroyo sucked, true, how we upgrade our backup PG now? we could have signed Chucky some weeks ago...conclusion there must be a PG who did come available in the last week or so....

ok here's the deal.... Cato, our 2008 first round pick and Acker for Brevin Knight...the Bobcats suck, and got a lot of injuries this year...Felton developed faster than expected...Bernie B told Knight that he won't refuse a decent offer for Knight, he's a vet and if a contender wants him he can leave...(i didnt make this up, i read an article about this some time ago, i try to find it)

The point of trading for Cato was to get space under the luxury tax. We aren't going to trade him for more salary.

Cato also has no trade value outside of clearing cap room for other teams, which we will not do.

This is why we will waive him.

Certain players we might take a look at in free agency are Jay Williams, Mateen Cleaves, Erick Strickland, Willie Green, and Howard Eisley.

FUN!

Most likely we will probably shift the T'Wolves' second round pick off for a minimum salary player from another team.

A healthy Cato is a decent big man. Unless his injury's are that bad, I see no point in cutting him.

What bothers me the most if indeed Cato is waived is how fucking cheap davidson is. The guy is about to die and he's being one greedy fuck by not trying to win. He can't take that money with him when he dies. After they bragged about building and selling all those underground bunker suites, the most consecutive sellouts, the expensive tickets, the lower-bowl completely sold out, etc.... and they can't handle a fucking payroll of $65 mil yet the Pacers who sell less tickets, live in a much smaller market have an $80 mil payroll. What a bunch of cheap motherfuckers. Seriously. I'm not ever going to buy another ticket to support this horseshit owner.

A healthy Cato is a decent big man. Unless his injury's are that bad, I see no point in cutting him.
True, but he hasn't been healthy for a while now. A reason for cutting him was that he has had a lot of injuries.

I would love a healthy Cato. I'm really dissapointed in the play of Dale Davis so far. And we are paying him a $7 million deal. Half of that contract will be paid next year. We have the flexibility to hold onto Darko next year without getting into luxury territory if we don't give Dale Davis that contract.

OH, the irony. Dale Davis was traded for Jermaine O'Neal. Dale Davis is part of the reason why we traded Darko.

We have to move on though. We have a nice pick coming up in a couple years with some guys to build a new team around (after the current guys retire, move on, or get old) like Carlos Delfino, Jason Maxiell, Amir Johnson, and Tayshaun Prince.

Some options that we could trade a 2nd round pick (or two) for:

Flip Murray
Jannero Pargo
Antonio Burks
Eddie Gill

i found the article

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/basketball/nba/charlotte_bobcats/13544324.htm

Knight can control his trade destinyIf opportunity arose, Bickerstaff would consult with veteranRICK BONNELLrbonnell@charlotteobserver.comYou've heard of the Larry Bird exception? Then call this the Steve Smith rule.
Last season, when playoff contenders started inquiring about Smith's availability, Charlotte Bobcats coach-general manager Bernie Bickerstaff said he wouldn't trade the veteran without first consulting him about his preference.
At the trade deadline, with Smith's blessing, Bickerstaff dealt him to the Miami Heat.
Bickerstaff said he'd proceed similarly if a team made an attractive offer for point guard Brevin Knight.
"It's to our advantage to listen," Bickerstaff said when asked if he'd consider trade proposals for Knight. "But on anything like that, I would always consult Brevin."
Keep in mind this is all hypothetical. Bickerstaff was responding to a question about whether the Memphis Grizzlies are interested in Knight, who once played there and makes Memphis his offseason home.
The Grizzlies lost Damon Stoudamire to a season-ending injury, and GM Jerry West said he's looking for a veteran backup point guard.
Speculation in Memphis included Knight, but Bickerstaff said Sunday he hasn't heard from the Grizzlies.
Robinson shines
Lost on the end of the bench when the season started, Bernard Robinson is now a fill-in starter and rising to the occasion.He had 11 points and 12 rebounds against the Hornets, and played 20-plus minutes for the sixth time in the past seven games.
"Playing steady minutes the game before gets you ready" for the next game, Robinson said. "You remember, `this works' or `that doesn't,' and it carries over."
Robinson's versatility is particularly useful with so many teammates hurt. Bickerstaff said Robinson is a good enough athlete to guard several positions.
Free spree over?
So much for the great march to the foul line: In going 5-2 recently, the Bobcats took 30 or more free throws in six of seven games.
Since then the Bobcats are 0-2, having taken 23 free throws against the Suns and 22 against the Hornets. In those games, they took 14 fewer free throws than their opponents.



he makes a bit more than Arroyo, we still save Darko's salary...i cant believe we settle in for guys like Burks, Pargo, etc just because they are cheap...we could have signed Chucky for free goddamit ! this new guy gotta be better than Chucky !

Let me start out by saying I really like Pargo, much more than I do Arroyo. The T'Wolves' 2nd round pick for Pargo is my best case scenario.

Why the scramble for a pg? I think we have a guy who can probably run the point 10 times better in Carlos Delfino. we're 42-9 with arroyo playing like 10 minutes a game, with indecisive, dribbed down shotclock passes that only go to Dice, shitty and1 moves, and a layup that gets blocked 90% of the time.

With delfino's defensive presence, and ability to pass, rebound and slash. TO ME you have your backup pg right on your bench. couple those 12 mins a game at pg with 10 at sf, and I don't think it's necessary to pay someone else.

Look at it like this. Anyone coming in will play limited minutes due to how good Billups is. I don't think the price of a backup pg on the market will be justified in such limited role. What we need from our back up pg is to:

1) Distribute the ball in a timely manner.

2) Have the ability to see the open lanes, and get the ball to players like rip at the right time coming off those screens. (Arroyo was always late)

3) The ability to create your own shot if necessary.

4) Successful transition/faste break plays

5) Decent defense.

I don't know about ya'll, but I see a guy who's capable of all 5 of those things sitting right on our bench. He'd have half a season to become acclamated to flip's plays (and probably knows alot of them already). Remember pitbulls x 2? It's possible with the defense Delfino's been playing. Give it some thought, throw me some feedback.

Yea, but will Flip go for it? It seems like he isn't exactly overflowing with confidence in Delfino. I mean, if he actually had confidence in him then why the hell is Evans not only getting minutes period, but getting more than Delfino?

My guess... Chauncey will be playing a good 42-45 minutes from now on with Lindsey getting 5 minutes or so in the first half. Needless to say this team is worse after the trade. Anything to save a buck though, right? [smilie=annoyed.gif]

its a good theory but the big problem is........ we're not coaching.

I simply don't believe Flip will do that. I'd be VERY surprised if Delfino EVER got any chance to run point. Flip is just gonna play Billups 38-40 minutes and have Lindsey do the lion's share of the remainder with Prince mopping up here and there.

Yea, but will Flip go for it? It seems like he isn't exactly overflowing with confidence in Delfino. I mean, if he actually had confidence in him then why the hell is Evans not only getting minutes period, but getting more than Delfino?

My guess... Chauncey will be playing a good 42-45 minutes from now on with Lindsey getting 5 minutes or so in the first half. Needless to say this team is worse after the trade.


Flip mentioned that the thinks Mo Evans is in competition with Delfino. nothing to worry about as far as dissention in the lockerroom, but he did mention that if Mo comes in AFTER Delfino, Mo seems to lack some aggressiveness. could this be why Flip always seems to bring in Mo first?
http://wtfdetroit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1189

Yea, but will Flip go for it? It seems like he isn't exactly overflowing with confidence in Delfino. I mean, if he actually had confidence in him then why the hell is Evans not only getting minutes period, but getting more than Delfino?

My guess... Chauncey will be playing a good 42-45 minutes from now on with Lindsey getting 5 minutes or so in the first half. Needless to say this team is worse after the trade.


Flip mentioned that the thinks Mo Evans is in competition with Delfino. nothing to worry about as far as dissention in the lockerroom, but he did mention that if Mo comes in AFTER Delfino, Mo seems to lack some aggressiveness. could this be why Flip always seems to bring in Mo first?
http://wtfdetroit.com/viewtopic.php?t=1189

Yea, I heard that interview on the radio, but I don't get why we're stringing the guy along. It seems like he should be MORE aggressive when he comes in after Delfino. Doesn't he want to prove he belongs? If not, then he obviously doesn't belong.

It'd be great insurance to have another true PG.

PGs and big men are the most important positions.

In the game that Arroyo missed (v San Antonio) who played back-up PG?

How many minutes did Billups play that night?

Yea, but will Flip go for it? It seems like he isn't exactly overflowing with confidence in Delfino. I mean, if he actually had confidence in him then why the hell is Evans not only getting minutes period, but getting more than Delfino?

My guess... Chauncey will be playing a good 42-45 minutes from now on with Lindsey getting 5 minutes or so in the first half. Needless to say this team is worse after the trade.

I think Joe will have something to say about that. How can you deny a player that's been on the up and up for about two months? To me, evans feels like a "we payed this guy around 3 mill, we need to get our worth out of him". I mean you can, but it would be stupid to do so.

Evans is pure hustle. You could bring Evans in to spell for rip, and grab maybe 5 mins from prince. he can hit the spot up three, and score on possessions that are supposed to be lost. Before you cats get skeptical on that, let me tell you why:

Playing a lineup of billups, evans, delfino, sheed, and dice (limited time line up) would be enough firepower and defense to hold over a rip rest, and more then enough to hold over 10 total minutes of play in the game. Why Evans at the 2? Because I truly believe delfino is much better, and more minutes allows him to get warm and loose without having to be pulled for a mistake or two.

Can't we waive Cato in the offseason?

its a good theory but the big problem is........ we're not coaching.

I simply don't believe Flip will do that. I'd be VERY surprised if Delfino EVER got any chance to run point. Flip is just gonna play Billups 38-40 minutes and have Lindsey do the lion's share of the remainder with Prince mopping up here and there.

Yeah I know, but then anything we talk about on here never makes a difference because we aren't coaching. It's just a way to discuss and stimulate thought over a basketball-less week.

Pargo from Chicago?

I would imagine they'd take the second rounder for him since he's not really useful for them.

It looks like we don't have a lot of options though.

Mateen would be fucking hilarious

In the game that Arroyo missed (v San Antonio) who played back-up PG?

How many minutes did Billups play that night?

He played 41 minutes. I know Flip doesn't trust Delfino. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just sharing my opinion that I feel a back up pg is unecessary, and that it should happen.

In the game that Arroyo missed (v San Antonio) who played back-up PG?

How many minutes did Billups play that night?

Prince did PG duties. Tay and Billups played 40 and 41 minutes respectively.

Evans had 14 minutes, while Delfino had 7. Both did not too well.

In the game that Arroyo missed (v San Antonio) who played back-up PG?

How many minutes did Billups play that night?
Billups - 41 minutes
Rip - 42 minutes
Tay - 40 minutes

Well, I'm one of those that think Delfino could steal some minutes from Billups and Tay.

So, if Evans was to get 14 minutes and Delfino was to get 17 that means that Tay and Billups play 35 and 36 respectively.

Not bad (though I'd prefer them playing even less with Mo playing more)

Anybody else really want to take a look at Acker?

Anybody else really want to take a look at Acker?

I wouldn't mind that either, Skelly. I just feel like Delfino has a better chance at getting those minutes, then a rookie who's been in nbdl talks. Boy oh boy I wish Flip browsed WTF.

Well, if Rip played 42 minutes then that's not good.

Give Mo an additional 3 (total 17) and give Delfino another 3 (total 20) and Rip's minutes come down to 36 as well.

No need for Acker, unless it's garbage time.

The new Human Victory Cigar = Acker

Well, I'm one of those that think Delfino could steal some minutes from Billups and Tay.

So, if Evans was to get 14 minutes and Delfino was to get 17 that means that Tay and Billups play 35 and 36 respectively.

Not bad (though I'd prefer them playing even less with Mo playing more)

See that to me is the perfect situation minutes wise. delfino 20, evans 17. going out and getting a "name" veteran is overdoing it to me, because the majority of their potential won't be used in those limited minutes anyway. I believe Delfino and Evans have more then enough skill to fill that gap over smoothly. Especially in limited minutes.

Before everyone starts bitching about Billups playing 44 minutes a game, let's at least give it one game to see what the rotation looks like.

Hey Joe, now you need a backup point guard

By John Hollinger

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2332322

OK, Joe Dumars, the clock's ticking. You have seven shopping days left to find yourself a backup point guard.

The trade of Darko Milicic was the big news Wednesday night, but for the Detroit Pistons, the bigger story come June will be who backs up starting point guard Chauncey Billups. The Pistons sent the previous backup, Carlos Arroyo, to Orlando along with Milicic, and since the trade only returned Kelvin Cato's expiring contract and a draft pick, the Pistons will have to fill that void somehow.

One obvious option is Lindsey Hunter, who recently returned from an injury and has won the trust of his teammates with his performances the past two seasons. However, Hunter is 35 years old and, while a pesky defender, he's a huge liability offensively.

In last season's playoffs he shot only 31.9 percent, and he hasn't shot above 36 percent since 2001-02. He's also played shooting guard for most of his career -- running the offense has never come easily for him.

Besides, what happens if Hunter goes back on the shelf, or even worse, if Billups were to end up there? Detroit has absolutely no Plan B at the moment.

That's a dangerous position to be in when your goal is to win a championship right now. It doesn't matter how much cap space Dumars clears for next year by trading Arroyo if he loses out on a ring in the meantime. The Pistons already have the league's best record and a playoff-tested starting five, but do they really want to depend so heavily on Hunter's surgically repaired ankle when he was a marginal player to begin with?

That's why it's so important for Dumars to come up with a replacement for Arroyo before the Feb. 23 trade deadline. Fortunately for him, a few names are out there. Far and away the most alluring for him is Mike James, a free-agent-to-be for the Raptors whose play off the bench helped spark Detroit's title run two years ago. However, he may cost a pretty penny since the Raptors wouldn't mind re-signing him over the summer.

(And speaking of former Pistons, you have to think Dumars is kicking himself right now for not re-signing Chucky Atkins last month while he had the chance.)

If he can't talk the Raptors out of James, then Dumars may have to set his sights quite a bit lower, choosing among several flawed candidates.

A brief sampler:

• Minnesota's Marcus Banks plays the pressure D Detroit likes but he's not a pure point guard offensively;

• Chicago's Jannero Pargo might be too shot-happy for the Pistons' liking;

• Portland's Steve Blake can run the show adeptly but would be vulnerable at the other end

• Denver's Earl Watson is rather richly compensated for a guy who would only play 10 minutes a night.

Unfortunately for the Pistons, somebody of that ilk is probably what they'll end up with  especially since one of the best targets, Atlanta's Tyronn Lue, is now out with a knee injury.

Of course, Arroyo wasn't exactly the second coming of John Stockton to begin with, so picking up one of these guys shouldn't leave the team any worse off. But they do have to get somebody. So while in the long term most will look at this trade as Detroit's washing its hands of Darko and getting a do-over in 2007, in the short term the story is the Pistons' dropping their backup point guard and hoping like crazy they can get another one in a week's time.

It's a gamble, but Joe Dumars has rolled the dice plenty of times before and he's won far more of them than he's lost. Seven days from now, we'll know if he's won another.

With Hunter around, Delfino playing well and Tayshaun capable of handling some PG duties I think we'll be OK.

Billups will probably play big minutes for a few games though before Joe either gets his PG or Flip realises we have other options.

What team is gonna help Joe out via trade?

Earl Watson or Marcus Banks would be GREAT.

Minny isn't gonna trade us Banks. They like him a lot.

Watson? $5,000,000 per year? No thanks.

Why didn't we do this when Chucky was available?

WTF

Here is what I think could be a possibility, if money was an issue. Perhaps it wasn't the luxary tax that worried Joe, as much as it was uncertainty. What I mean by that is; let's say we kept Darko until next offseason, and during the 06-07 season Dice, Ben or Sheed go down long term. All of a sudden Drako is getting big minutes. Come the offseason a team makes Darko a Memo like deal. All of a sudden Joe has to match a huge deal or lose Darko for nothing.

The possibility of a lucrative outside offer changes the budget from 8 miilion for Darko and Arroyo to as high as 16 million f or both.

I know that was the long way to get to a point but my point is maybe Joe didn't mind the 8 million but feared the higher amounts. Thus maybe as long as the player we get for Cato or combination of players is 8 Million or lessJoe won't mind the salary.

For example we trade Cato and two seconds for Deke and Alston, those deals are less than 8 million combined. I hope that is the case.

Minny isn't gonna trade us Banks. They like him a lot.

Watson? $5,000,000 per year? No thanks.

Why didn't we do this when Chucky was available?

WTF

Watson is a LOT better than Chucky. Watson is a great on the ball defender, he can hit the three, and he won't stall out an offense. I don't see who else we're going to get that would even come remotely close. It's not like he couldn't be moved in a couple years. Plenty of teams would give him a chance.

Minny isn't gonna trade us Banks. They like him a lot.

Watson? $5,000,000 per year? No thanks.

Why didn't we do this when Chucky was available?

WTF

Watson is a LOT better than Chucky. Watson is a great on the ball defender, he can hit the three, and he won't stall out an offense. I don't see who else we're going to get that would even come remotely close.

Biggest problem with Denver is outside of Miller their PG would require an additional player to make a deal happen tra wise. That would mean if we want Boykins or Watson we would have to ake back Najera or Lenard whic could cuase to seperate issues. 1 Lenard and either pG would need to include a future first to amke a deal worth it for Denver. Or if we took on either Boykins or Watson we would need to absorb a huge Contar that Najera has.

Biggest problem with Denver is outside of Miller their PG would require an additional player to make a deal happen tra wise. That would mean if we want Boykins or Watson we would have to ake back Najera or Lenard whic could cuase to seperate issues. 1 Lenard and either pG would need to include a future first to amke a deal worth it for Denver. Or if we took on either Boykins or Watson we would need to absorb a huge Contar that Najera has.

Lenard is the perfect fit. He is a DNP guy for Denver (hasn't played since Dec. 15th), and his contract is expiring. From what I remember they wanted to move him early in the year anyways. Maybe we could ship them the t-wolves 2nd rounder. It's tough to tell how badly they want to dump his contract though.

I know Watson is much better than Atkins, but his contract is really long and he'll get more than Arroyo was making per season.

I thought we were worried about money?

Cato and a pick for Cassell and Rebreca!!

hehe.

Might be the first time that I've ever agreed with Hollinger.

There seems to be a disconnect here between those that like this deal and those that are unsure or hate it.

Some of you are saying "we lost Arroyo who wasn't playing well and Darko who wasn't playing at all, and we got a future lotto pick."

I have a couple of problems with that line of thinking.

1. We did not just lose our #2 PG and our #2 bust pick, we lost two chips that could have been dealt for a player that could contribute IMMEDIATELY to help us with the title again.

As I have said elsewhere, I'm not going to go all Kilo yet until I see Joe's plan over the next week, but if he cuts Cato, stands pat or brings in a bargain PG, I just might get on board with Key.

2. There is no guarantee that this pick from Orlando is going to be any more than a mid-to-late first rounder.

A lot really depends on what kind of package they get for Francis (if they deal him at all) and what year we get the pick. We really have no idea what their squad is going to look like next year, and in the weak-ass East, there is a very good chance that they could be a playoff team. And again, we'll be another year older (or two if the pick doesn't come until 2008) and quite possibly could come up just short of another title or two because of this move.

That said, Joe has a week to keep me on board with the "Trust Joe" mantra. I hope to god that he remembers how it felt last year to come up just short in the Finals. HE CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN!!

I don't think he will.

Trust in Joe (at least for the 7 days).




(p.s. I merged two very similar threads that were started nearly at the same time to try and keep some of this together)

I am sorry for asking this question again but feel I still hae not gotten a good answer. Here it goes....

Why the frick would we waive Cato if his salary comes off the books at the end of the year? What's the advantage?

We have a week until the trade deadline. That only leaves us a game against atlanta, and one against Indi (on the trade deadline) to evaluate Delfino at the point. I'd like to see Flip play Delfino major minutes 20-25 at PG to see how he can handle it. I'd even let Billups play off the ball when he's in there with Delfino. We know what we're going to get out of hunter. That way Joe knows whether he can trade a second rounder for a backup PG and roll with him and Hunter, or whether he needs to be more aggressive in getting a backup.

No one has an answer for waiving Cato?

Because there is no answer. There is no point in waiving him.

Yes, there is no point to waive him. Unless you need the roster spot (we already got one by making a 2 for 1 trade), waiving him does nothing.

if you waive a guy does his salary come off the books immediatly after you waive him? or does it still stay on until the end of season?

no, you still pay him. there is no benifit to waiving a guy in his last year like that unless you plan on using his roster spot for someone else. considering we already got a roster spot from the deal, I can't see us needed another one.

well how injured is Cato? Any chance he could still contribute a bit towards the end of the season and playoffs?

What team is gonna help Joe out via trade?

Whichever team can benefit from what he has to offer. Joe Dumars is in no way blacklisted, especially after the last deal he made where teams will think he's vunerable to giving up good players for little in return. Joe will find teams that are willing to make a deal.

Jim (Det): Chad, when I saw that the Darko trade went though, my 1st concern was that Detroit was losing their back up point guard. I know Joe D wouldn't make this trade without having a plan to acquire some point guard depth. Who are the Pistons targeting? Who is available?

Chad Ford: (12:21 PM ET ) He's looking. But I think he did make the trade without a deal already in place for a back-up point. I think they'll try to use Cato's expiring contract to land them a point guard. Brevin Knight is an option. But for those that think Joe D made too big of a risk by letting Arroyo go, I don't think so. If Chauncey Billups goes down in the playoffs, the Pistons are no longer favorites to win the NBA title with Arroyo running the show. If Billups goes out for shorter stints, they've built up a big enough cushion in the East to withstand it.

With Delfino seemingly sliding into more minutes at the point, I'm wondering if we haven't made our most vulnerable position (SF, IMO) even thinner.

I know that Delfino CAN back up both the 1 and the 3, but he can't do them at the same time.

And we've been remarkably lucky with injuries so far.

Are they still projecting Amir as a SF (kind of like a Darius Miles type guy)?

A lot of my "Fun with Cato" ideas include both a PG and a SF, so maybe Joe D will be thinking along those lines as well.

^good point by Ford. I can't see us winning without Billups anyway, regardless of Arroyo or not. We've all seen our offense stall with Arroyo, can you imagine him playing 30+ minutes a night? I would immediately make the Heat ECF favorites if Billups was gone for the year (even with arroyo).

I can't think of any team that has lost an All Star caliber player and still won the championship...can you?

We should stop worrying about if Billups goes down, because no team overcomes that in the playoffs. All we need to worry about is the 15 minutes of play behind Billups.

With Delfino seemingly sliding into more minutes at the point, I'm wondering if we haven't made our most vulnerable position (SF, IMO) even thinner.

I know that Delfino CAN back up both the 1 and the 3, but he can't do them at the same time.

And we've been remarkably lucky with injuries so far.

Are they still projecting Amir as a SF (kind of like a Darius Miles type guy)?

A lot of my "Fun with Cato" ideas include both a PG and a SF, so maybe Joe D will be thinking along those lines as well.

Well, you basically have Evans and Delfino backing up the 1,2,3 which is only 40 minutes a night anyway. Play Delfino 25 and Evans 15. You always have a starter in there anyways with them. There aren't many times when Arroyo, Delfino and Evans were all in there at the same time anyway.

With Delfino seemingly sliding into more minutes at the point, I'm wondering if we haven't made our most vulnerable position (SF, IMO) even thinner.

the way i see it, the position is thin by virtue of Flip not playing the backups enough. IF delfino is delegated to some PG minutes, i don't see why he can't play close to 25 minutes a game. Mo Evans is good for 10-15 energy minutes as well.

With Delfino seemingly sliding into more minutes at the point, I'm wondering if we haven't made our most vulnerable position (SF, IMO) even thinner.

the way i see it, the position is thin by virtue of Flip not playing the backups enough. IF delfino is delegated to some PG minutes, i don't see why he can't play close to 25 minutes a game. Mo Evans is good for 10-15 energy minutes as well.

Agreed. SF is our deepest position in truth with Delfino, Evans, Max, Sheed, and Tay all able to play at a decent level there and some highschool punk in training for a full time roll.

GD, thought the same thing last night. A week ago everyone agreed that the team needed a backup SF.

Can you imagine if we are not able to adress one of these backup spots and we happen to get bounced in the second round or something due to a depth issue? Talk about singing a different tune on the Pistons organization. I can't even imagine.

If we don't get a back-up point guard - what do we do with our open roster spot. I know we'll activate both Acker and Maxiell to fill out our 12 man, but if we're going to use Delfino/Prince at the point, Acker really isn't necessary - especially come the play-off roster. Is Hoiberg still looking to come back this year??

If we don't trade Cato - we better keep him on our roster. He's a solid enough player when healthy and a big body, actually biggest on our team by about 20 lbs. Look at his numbers last year, and he and Davis could put up 14 and 14 with 3 blocks between them if Ben ever went down for any length of time.

I'm actually leaning towards keeping Cato actually.

Billups|Prince/Delfino/Hunter
Hamilton|Delfino|Evans
Prince|Delfino|Evans
B.Wallace|Davis|Cato
R.Wallace|McDyess|Maxiell

Prince/Delfino are better options that Arroyo at the point and Cato will offer us more output that Milicic at least this season. Did we actually improve our current team with this move??

If we don't get a back-up point guard - what do we do with our open roster spot. I know we'll activate both Acker and Maxiell to fill out our 12 man, but if we're going to use Delfino/Prince at the point, Acker really isn't necessary - especially come the play-off roster. Is Hoiberg still looking to come back this year??

If we don't trade Cato - we better keep him on our roster. He's a solid enough player when healthy and a big body, actually biggest on our team by about 20 lbs. Look at his numbers last year, and he and Davis could put up 14 and 14 with 3 blocks between them if Ben ever went down for any length of time.

I'm actually leaning towards keeping Cato actually.

Billups|Prince/Delfino/Hunter
Hamilton|Delfino|Evans
Prince|Delfino|Evans
B.Wallace|Davis|Cato
R.Wallace|McDyess|Maxiell

Prince/Delfino are better options that Arroyo at the point and Cato will offer us more output that Milicic at least this season. Did we actually improve our current team with this move??

Doesn't matter not one of these sitautions is optimal anyways. Whether it's bringing DelFino in to play PG, activating Acker, playing Hunuter or keeping Cato, there all stopgap measures.

I just don't see the fascination with having Prince play the point. Everytime that I've seen him try it, he looks totally out of control (handles-wise).

I think they are forcing something that isn't there if they play Tay at the point.

As far as SF, I've said before that I don't see Delfino or Evans as SF's, rather as SGs. Sheed will most likely never play SF again, and they haven't even considered Max at SF as far as I know.

If we don't get a back-up point guard - what do we do with our open roster spot. I know we'll activate both Acker and Maxiell to fill out our 12 man, but if we're going to use Delfino/Prince at the point, Acker really isn't necessary - especially come the play-off roster. Is Hoiberg still looking to come back this year??

If we don't trade Cato - we better keep him on our roster. He's a solid enough player when healthy and a big body, actually biggest on our team by about 20 lbs. Look at his numbers last year, and he and Davis could put up 14 and 14 with 3 blocks between them if Ben ever went down for any length of time.

I'm actually leaning towards keeping Cato actually.

Billups|Prince/Delfino/Hunter
Hamilton|Delfino|Evans
Prince|Delfino|Evans
B.Wallace|Davis|Cato
R.Wallace|McDyess|Maxiell

Prince/Delfino are better options that Arroyo at the point and Cato will offer us more output that Milicic at least this season. Did we actually improve our current team with this move??

Doesn't matter not one of these sitautions is optimal anyways. Whether it's bringing DelFino in to play PG, activating Acker, playing Hunuter or keeping Cato, there all stopgap measures.

if the lineup is more potent, then of course it's more optimal. although, i'd like to see Maxiell as our 3rd string PF, instead of Cato. Maxiell actually looks like he's out to earn minutes when he's out there. why not give the rook a few experience minutes that he'll actually benefit from?

who knows, we might have done an addition by subtraction here (what kilo's eluding to). instead of Flip trying to squeeze in minutes for so many bench guys, he can now tighten the main rotation by playing different guys at backup pg. how many games do we have before the trade deadline (2/23)? maybe we can give things a try while joeD explores some options.

Sheed looks a lot bigger/bulkier now than he was in his SF days. Delfino can play SF, but I think he's a true 2-guard. Evans is crap. Prince could work at the point because he is so damn unselfish, might as well play to his strenghts. But I do agree that he's awkward as hell at the point and if a team played pressure D on him, it would be a fiasco.

I like Delfino as a back-up 1/2 much more. Just as long as he isn't called for palming the ball anymore.

I just don't see the fascination with having Prince play the point. Everytime that I've seen him try it, he looks totally out of control (handles-wise).

I think they are forcing something that isn't there if they play Tay at the point.

As far as SF, I've said before that I don't see Delfino or Evans as SF's, rather as SGs. Sheed will most likely never play SF again, and they haven't even considered Max at SF as far as I know.

i agree with Tay being potentially awkward at PG.

here are my thoughts i've said somewhere else: i think Flip's offense is such that every player on the floor has the opportunity to be the playmaker/assist guy. because of that we might not need a "traditional" PG. i think that's why Arroyo might have failed here...he's a traditional PG who needs to handle the rock most of the time and try to make plays for others.

also, with regards to Delfino at SF, it depends on who he can guard, right? he seemed to do a good job on Pierce and Vince....so who knows.

Joe seems really interested in Brevin Knight. Could we get him for Cato, Acker and the Minnesota #2? Or are we talking future first rounders to get him??

He's on the short side, how's his defense?? He doesn't seem like the scorer that Flip seems to want at the point, averaging 8.1ppg over his career. Is his shot good ehough where it at least has to be respected by the opposing defense??

^I honestly haven't seen him play much lately. He is very effective as a PG though (best AST/TO ratio in the league). He rebounds well for his size (3.4 RPG), shoots 41% (Arroyo shot 36%) which isn't bad for a PG, and leads the league in steals. He's gritty and solid, that's all I know.

solid? leads the league in steals, best Ass/ TO rate? that's way more than just solid, this guy is a really good point guard, and i am actually happy he's not in love with the threy, we have enough guys who can score form downtown...

I wish I had seen him play this year. That way I would know his tendancies beyond the stats.

Is he a dribble penetration PG like Parker?
Is he a jump shooting PG? (numbers don't suggest that)
Is he a pick and roll PG like Arroyo but more consistant?
Is he a fast break PG like Kidd?
Does he gamble on defense to get those steals like AI?

Those questions can only be answered by seeing him play.

Looking at Charlotteboard, it seems like he'll be out of our price range. Then again Bickerstaff said he'll trade him to a contender if he moves him, so maybe we could get a little bit of a deal.

I like Brevin Knight, but I don't think he'd be happy here. Is 12 minutes per game good enough for him?

I like Brevin Knight, but I don't think he'd be happy here. Is 12 minutes per game good enough for him?

He's a vet who has been passed around the league a lot and is playing on a crummy team right now. Since he wouldn't be in a contract year and needing the PT to earn his next contract, I think he'd like to come here and play for a true contender. Cleveland or Miami might be a better fit where he could get more minutes and contend I guess.

i've had Brevin Knight on my fantasy team, but unfortunately, i know nothing about his game but his stats.

looks like his FG% took a small hit this season, but that's more than likely because he's been shooting more. that's probably because the Bobcats asked him to shoot more. he definitely doesn't shoot the three pointer. his steals per game intrigues me (both as a backup PG here and it's why he's on my fantasy team :D)

I like Brevin Knight, but I don't think he'd be happy here. Is 12 minutes per game good enough for him?

He would get more than 12 MPG I think. He would play 20-25 minutes (if I were the coach), and Billups would backup RIP basically for 10 MPG. Delfino would get the remaing 5 minutes and also backup Tay for 15 MPG. That's the way I would run things.

^^ Do you kill Evans?

Silas was on ESPNNEWS again this afternoon and he said that he's hearing out of Denver that Kiki would now rather move Andre Miller than Earl Watson.

I think Miller would be perfect for us, and Cato's deal is a perfect match.

Miller is on an expiring as well, so if we throw them a pick and Denver goes for it, it wouldn't even effect our luxury tax situation for next year.

We could also S&T Miller after the season if Joe wanted to.


EDIT: This post contains incorrect information. Miller's salary is incorrectly listed on Hoopshype, making it look like he is on an expiring deal. Sorry --GD.

I have a feeling that getting Miller would take the ORL pick, something I'm not sure I want to do for a rental.

I have a feeling that getting Miller would take the ORL pick, something I'm not sure I want to do for a rental.

Yeah, that's my feeling as well. I think Miller will be traded for something of value - why would they want Cato for? Dumars is going to hold on to that Orlando pick - that is his only chance not to get bashed to hell for trading "The Darkness" (that will be his Nike show name) for cap space.

I think Cato's health would have a lot to do with a deal like Miller from Denver.

Denver needs bigs & salary relief, and they have extra PGs.

I wonder if we sent them our own 2007 1st (a very late pick, to be sure) if that would be enticing enough?

We won't have room for too many more young players most likely anyways, so that pick is most likely going to be used in a trade at some point anyways.

Plus it's another contract that we won't have to guarantee.

Andre Miller is expiring?

according to who?

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

Andre Miller is expiring?

according to who?

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

he is in his last season of his contract, making $8.1M

on the Realgm tradechecker he has 3 years left. I believe them.

The hoopshype page is flawed, all the other guys who are expiring have a $0 for a salary and Miller's looks like they messed up the code. They did the same thing for Prince (who we all know is not expiring).

on the Realgm tradechecker he has 3 years left. I believe them.

The hoopshype page is flawed, all the other guys who are expiring have a $0 for a salary and Miller's looks like they messed up the code. They did the same thing for Prince (who we all know is not expiring).

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?player=263

looks like you might be right.

looks like his FG% took a small hit this season, but that's more than likely because he's been shooting more. that's probably because the Bobcats asked him to shoot more.
ya'll are hardheaded. we just came to grips with traditional guards who cant shoot not fitting in here. a guard whose shooting worse because his team asked him to be more aggressive doesnt fit.

I can live with Joe D dropping arroyo for nothing. but to replace him with another guard who cant shoot would be absolutely stupid IMO.

GET A PG WHO FITS OUR SYSTEM. BAR NONE.

No fantasy dreams of prototypical pg's you wanted back in the LB days. they arent a bright option at this point. I mean damn, its like you wanna run right back into this brick wall we hit with arroyo.

A pg who would best fit our system would be a short 2-guard who has been forced to play the point because he cannot guard other sg's in the league.

Brevin sounds too much like Arroyo if you believe Charlotteboards scouting report of him. Chainsaw asked, and he has juice overthere to get other mods and longtimers to reply.

Knight is off my wishlist.

looks like his FG% took a small hit this season, but that's more than likely because he's been shooting more. that's probably because the Bobcats asked him to shoot more.
ya'll are hardheaded. we just came to grips with traditional guards who cant shoot not fitting in here. a guard whose shooting worse because his team asked him to be more aggressive doesnt fit.

I can live with Joe D dropping arroyo for nothing. but to replace him with another guard who cant shoot would be absolutely stupid IMO.

GET A PG WHO FITS OUR SYSTEM. BAR NONE.

No fantasy dreams of prototypical pg's you wanted back in the LB days. they arent a bright option at this point. I mean damn, its like you wanna run right back into this brick wall we hit with arroyo.

mine was just an observation. i have no clue what Brevin's actual game is like. i can't remember a bobcat's game to save my life......besides that game winning dunk by Tay from last season.

Knight is off my wishlist.
thank you for forgetting the LB type PG.


wait a minute...i had a scarey sickening feeling inside. fred hoiberg is available. Oh Please noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! [smilie=arrgh.jpg] [smilie=anxious.gif]

What ever happened to the Jay Williams comeback tour?? He's a shorty shooter and we wouldn't need him right now, so no pressure to push things and he'd be playing in front of one of the best training staffs in the NBA.

Jay posted a blog Dec 30th that his second NBA chance could be "next week". Obviously that didn't happen but he must be pretty close. Dumars stated that many agents called him up -I wonder if Jay Williams agent was one of them. Jay would be a classic Dumars reclaimation project.

One #2 out the door, why not bring an other one in?? You can question the choices Jay made in his life, but you cannot question his heart or desire to play basketball.

What ever happened to the Jay Williams comeback tour?? .

it only had one destination i know of. In miami with the other Jwill by his side. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

rehabilitation wise, i dont know at all.

He sucked before his injury so I don't want any part of a crippled sucky player.

Cato and picks for A. Miller and lesser picks?

Cato for Watson and Leonard?

Cato and Orlando pick for Knight and their lower 1st rounder(I think they have one).

Those seem the most appealing.

The Andre Miller deal sounds good to me but I wonder if his contract poses any problems for us.

His contract is surely a problem. Dumars said he wanted to save $12M and he ended up cutting $15M - he's not going to take on that size of a deal.

We're looking at expiring or one-extra year pg's that make less than the MLE.

Cato and picks for A. Miller and lesser picks?

Cato for Watson and Leonard?

Cato and Orlando pick for Knight and their lower 1st rounder(I think they have one).

Those seem the most appealing.
appealing to who?(not denver) Andre miller is not an option. earl watson at best. And though i dont think much of him. he's better than being coupled up with leonard for cato(better than going for cato at all). Cato might not get traded at all. he's set to fall off the payroll books this offseason. thats all we wanted. it makes no sense to take on millers or watsons contract. and dont get me started on Brevin and his worth to saunders system. [smilie=angryfire.g:

Actually let me say i dont mean anything rude or to shoot down ideas. but realistically theres no reason to trade for cato unless you are dumping dead weight for no value in return. watson, Miller, and even leonard arent dead weight in denver. not dead enough to get dropped like that IMO.but you never know. maybe denver is really really dumb like Joe D was to give up darko and arroyo for next to nothing in hopes of keeping the core and status quo at the same time..

and dont get me started on Brevin and his worth to saunders system. [smilie=angryfire.g:

Needless to say, Brevin is certainly a MUCH better option than what we have right now. His jumpshot is at least a bit better than Arroyo. He is a much better defender than Arroyo (who isnt?). I also think he would do a much better job of running the offense than Arroyo. I mean, if he can manage 8+ apg on a team full of garbage players like Charlotte, then he should be able to do very good things with us.

There are probably better options out there, but if Brevin is available, then he'll probably be our best shot.

Brevin is a better passer, shooter, and defender than Arroyo. And it's not even close in any of those areas. Arroyo has more flash than Brevin but that's it.

Brevin is a better passer, shooter, and defender than Arroyo. And it's not even close in any of those areas. Arroyo has more flash than Brevin but that's it.

co-signed

I don't think there's many players in the L that are better passers than Arroyo.


Brevin can score, but he's not a better passer or ball handler than Arroyo. Stop kidding yourselves.

Bullshit. Arroyo is not a better passer. He's better than Knight at making flashy passes but that's it. Running the offense hitting Rip off screens or passing the ball to anyone in the post Brevin waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over Arroyo. As far as dribbling again it's all flash. This aint an And1 mixed tape this is chamionship basketball we're talking about. Besides all Arroyo does is dribble the basketball. He stalled our offense with his punding the ball into the ground bullshit.

Brevin plays on a team with crappy scorers, plays 30 minutes a Knight and leads the league in assist to turnover ratio. He is just flat out better than Arroyo in every area. Fuck a Arroyo.

He's a FUCKING POINTGUARD!!! Of COURSE he dribbles the fucking basketball.

You don't know how many times I've heard that fucking complaint and just shrugged
my shoulders. Arroyo would be better suited on a squad with nice finishers. I understand
where LB was coming from when he was talking about Arroyo making the pass before
the assist, but it's not like Arroyo hears "OH BABY!" while he's making a move.

If our offense had more slashers, Arroyo would have been killing it. We're just not
set up that way. Where the fuck were all of the Brevin fans last year or the year before?
The fact of the matter is, Brev's been in the league for a minute and never really
broke through until this year (on a sorry ass squad) and everyone thinks he's the man.

Shit reminds me of when McInnis had that nice little season a year or two ago.
I can understand wanting the guy here in Detroit since he's more like Billups and everyone
wants 48 minutes of Chauncey, but fuck man...I thought Arroyo was a nice change of pace
being that he's a pass first PG. It's all good. I'm sad to see my man go, but we'll be fine.
I just don't get all of the fuckin man-love for Brevin. He's no better than Mike James,
Tyronn Lue or even Tony Delk really.

Two straight years Brevin has been at the top of the league in assists and assit to turnover ratio. He'd make a great back-up PG. Arroyo was crap in this system. It was painfully obvious. If he wasn't in situations where he could make the flashy no look pass he was worthless. Brevin Knight is a solid consistent passer and shooter that plays good D. He'd be a great fit here.

I didn't disagree with Brev being a good fit. I just don't think he's as good a
passer or ballhandler as Arroyo. It's not about the flash. Arroyo can ball.
Diddy, I respect your opinion. Brev's not garbage by any means.
It's ok though. A lot of cats hated Arroyo here. It's not like we lost anyone
out of our core group. If we did, I'd argue more. Let's just agree to disagree.

I'm gonna side with Diddy on this argument and say Brevin Knight is a better fit for the Pistons than Arroyo, and clearly a better PG. Not only that, but he's also 4th in the league in assists and 3rd in Assist/TO ratio. Last season, he was one of the top 5-6 point guard in the NBA period.

Put him on the Pistons and it's over.

I also agree with MOLA that a lot of the hate Arroyo gets is unjustified. He's a good PG, just not fit for a team like the Pistons.

I apologize for the Andre Miller misinformation guys (nice catch Koolaid).

That's the second time that I've been Hoopshyped.

There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

Looks like I need to stop relying on Hoopshype for salary info for good.

brevin is a better scorer? by how much? a legitimate amount in limited time?? ya'll on some odd shit. he's struggling with the request to look for a shot and isnt comfortable shooting at all. No, a PG who differs is not a good fit in our system. Once again he's not a better defender than arroyo(atleast not by much). he gambles more and gets beat more. like iverson and larry hughes his steals are misleading and dont equate to solid defense overall.

If you are going to drop a pg who isnt the right fit, why on fucking earth do you replace him with another who is also not a good fit. We need a point guard who is comfortable shooting it as a first option at times and can make it. arroyo=has the balls to shoot it but cant make that many shots. knight=better percentage but looks uncomfortable as fuck being a first option to score on a play.

Honestly i'd think acker would find his niche in Flip's system before knight and thats not even an endorsement for Acker.

you guys been on brevin knights love boat since the off season and this aint even the same team system wise as it was then. I honestly think some people here thought arroyo just flat out sucked, thus they think anybody can come in here and hold it down at PG. Which just isn't the case. This really isnt even a knock on knight for me. We just arent the right fit for him. Maybe last year, but this aint last year. I want an offensive threat at pg.

I sort of agree with Gutz, (Fool and I had this same discussion in one of these threads yesterday).

That being said, I'll take Knight as opposed to standing pat with what we've got now.

I sort of agree with Gutz, (Fool and I had this same discussion in one of these threads yesterday).

That being said, I'll take Knight as opposed to standing pat with what we've got now.
Actually i think hunter will do fine*waiting for the hunter haters to rise up*

Its odd that the 3 most overanalyzed and scrutenized positions in Detroit are starting QB, Backup PG, and 12th man high draft pick. I see no desperate need to blow away the pick we got and/or the expiring Cato deal over Brevin(actually any of the picks we got in the 1st round). no thanks.

I apologize for the Andre Miller misinformation guys (nice catch Koolaid).

That's the second time that I've been Hoopshyped.

There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

Looks like I need to stop relying on Hoopshype for salary info for good.

Check hoopshype again. Notice how there are no "$0's" for the years after this year? That means there are more years on the contract, they just don't know for how long or how much. If it were the last year of his contract he'd have a "$0" for each year after his contract is up.

I'll take another run at this.

Chris Duhon anybody?

1. Joe liked him coming out of college

2. The Bulls have been rumored to be looking to deal a PG for a long time now

3. He can shoot the 3, and is a decent playmaker, not sure about his defense

4. His $3mil salary fits into Joe's budget. "Right now we're $15m under the tax threshold and I'd like to be no less than $12m under" (paraphrase)

Do we have something of interest for the Bulls? Is Pargo a better option (I've had Pargomania for a couple of years now).

Another one of my old favorites is David Wesley (I think WTFChris will remember my campaigns to bring him here, since I think he likes him too). He's got a $5m expiring deal (I confirmed that with two sources this time, lol).

I like Duhon. I really wanted him here out of college instead of Paulding (i think it was that year)

As for Knight, here is what the Charlotte board said:


the main problem with a cato for knight deal is the bobcats are probably the one team that doesnt care about catos expiring deal. i think a 3rd team would have to get involved. i doubt one of detroits own picks would really be enough.

anyway... on to your questions.

1. he is not really a pendtrate and kick type pg. he is quick and can penetrate when needed but thats not really his game. that would be more felton.

2. he is a jump shooting pg to a degree. knight score the majority of his points on 15-18 ft jumpers. he has no range beyond that however. his jumper is ugly but he will get into a groove and knock em down many games.

3. he does fairly well on the pick and roll. we uset that a lot with brezec and knight is better at running that play than felton... right now.

4. he is not a fast break pg. he typically likes to control the tempo and operate in a half court set. he is very patient with the ball and usually gets it to the open man. knight keeps the ball in his hands a lot. he is not the type of pg to come down and pass and cut etc... he will dribble until someone gets open for a shot then hit them quickly... this is why is assist numbers are so high. ths can viewed as a plus and a negative. i think knight would work well with getting the ball to rip off the screens.

5. well the entire bobcats defense right now is predicated on a lot of gambling and traps... this is how we stay in games and how we cover for the lack of any true defensive post players with okafor out. that being said, knight still gets a ton of steals on the ball.

He actually sounds like basically Arroyo with less turn overs and a LOT better defense. He seems like the same mold as Arroyo in that he controls the ball to find an open man. The difference is that Knight almost always makes the best play possible, while Arroyo frequently choses a bad option and turns the ball over. It doesn't sound like there is any weakness in his game, except that he doesn't have 3 point range. That's fine with me, because we take enough threes as it is.

but once again arroyo's style wasnt made for the system and you just admitted that knight is in the same mold. [smilie=404.gif]

duhon makes more sense, though the bulls might want too much for him. his defense isnt all star level but overall its better than arroyo and knight combined IMO.

taking knight would have to be cheap and out of sheer desperation IMO. And since Hunter is healthy i dont see it being like that.

but once again arroyo's style wasnt made for the system and you just admitted that knight is in the same mold.

duhon makes more sense, though the bulls might want too much for him. his defense isnt all star level but overall its better than arroyo and knight combined IMO.

Similar mold, better player. It's like saying Tim Duncan and Dyess are in the same mold. Sure, they are both PF's that face up to the basket a lot and try to blow by their defender or shoot a mid range shot. Similar mold does not mean equal production. Arroyo is like Jason Williams light. Knight is better and he also plays defense.

I do agree that Duhon might make more sense, but he may not be an option either.

but once again arroyo's style wasnt made for the system and you just admitted that knight is in the same mold.

duhon makes more sense, though the bulls might want too much for him. his defense isnt all star level but overall its better than arroyo and knight combined IMO.

Similar mold, better player. It's like saying Tim Duncan and Dyess are in the same mold. Sure, they are both PF's that face up to the basket a lot and try to blow by their defender or shoot a mid range shot. Similar mold does not mean equal production. Arroyo is like Jason Williams light. Knight is better and he also plays defense.

no but it means odds are that brevin is gonna do what he does in charlotte with an open 20 foot shot. not shoot it or miss it. you dont have to always shoot jumpers in Flip's system, but you have to be able to make them.

He shoots 4% better than Arroyo and just 2% less than Billups or Delfino. That's one miss more for every 20 shots or so.

He shoots 4% better than Arroyo and just 2% less than Billups or Delfino. That's one miss more for every 20 shots or so.
thats a premature take since you arent factoring in his shooting range and effectiveness vs their range of effective shooting. not to mention his tendency or lack their of in shooting a shot.

The key difference between the two (IMO) is the time in hand/shot. If he's out there with Delfino Dyess and Mo, I don't want him looking for his own shot first. If he's out there with starters. I definately don't want him looking for his own shot.

The key difference between the two (IMO) is the time in hand/shot. If he's out there with Delfino Dyess and Mo, I don't want him looking for his own shot first. If he's out there with starters. I definately don't want him looking for his own shot.
why not, those guys arent aggressive enough to make up for any lack of scoring at the pg position.

He shoots 4% better than Arroyo and just 2% less than Billups or Delfino. That's one miss more for every 20 shots or so.
thats a premature take since you arent factoring in his shooting range and effectiveness vs their range of effective shooting. not to mention his tendency or lack their of in shooting a shot.

Their ranges are similar (Arroyo and Knight), though Billups and Delfino certainly have longer range.

I'm also not factoring in how much better his % could be here in Detroit. I don't watch them play, but I can't imagine he gets a lot of open looks there. Who is there to draw defenders to them?

Here he would have RIP, Sheed, etc drawing double teams at times and have a lot more open shots.

He shoots 4% better than Arroyo and just 2% less than Billups or Delfino. That's one miss more for every 20 shots or so.
thats a premature take since you arent factoring in his shooting range and effectiveness vs their range of effective shooting. not to mention his tendency or lack their of in shooting a shot.

Their ranges are similar (Arroyo and Knight), though Billups and Delfino certainly have longer range.

I'm also not factoring in how much better his % could be here in Detroit. I don't watch them play, but I can't imagine he gets a lot of open looks there. Who is there to draw defenders to them?

Here he would have RIP, Sheed, etc drawing double teams at times and have a lot more open shots.
ummm those guys dont draw double teams. the only guy who gets double teamed on a night in night out basis is cbill. sheed only gets double teamed when a team is stupid(IE. the bulls). if anything people would give him the 20 footer and zone off on everyone else. kinda more so than they did with arroyo. this isnt the type of upgrade worth wasting time with.

ummm those guys dont draw double teams. the only guy who gets double teamed on a night in night out basis is cbill. sheed only gets double teamed when a team is stupid(IE. the bulls). if anything people would give him the 20 footer and zone off on everyone else. kinda more so than they did with arroyo. this isnt the type of upgrade worth wasting time with.

They don't draw direct double teams, but they do draw additional defenders. When we beat teams off pick and rolls, screens, etc there is usually a help defender coming to the ball. That always leaves someone open. Even bad teams with bad players (like Charlotte) draw extra defenders when they beat their man. It just happens more often on teams with better overall players. Especially in an effective offense like we have. Teams cheat to one direction or another, even if you don't draw a full double team.

My point is simply Knight (or any PG) would have more open shots here than in Charlotte playing with guys less capable of getting their own shot.

I think Jay Williams would be worth a tryout. You might say he sucked, but he averaged 9.5 points and 4.7 assists in 26mpg as a rookie. He's a jump shooter, and scorer first, and that's what we are looking for. If we don't trade for a pg, I'd be interested in at least giving the kid a look-see. He says he's at 90% where he was athletically before the injury - if he's telling the truth the kid has to be better than Alex Acker.

ummm those guys dont draw double teams. the only guy who gets double teamed on a night in night out basis is cbill. sheed only gets double teamed when a team is stupid(IE. the bulls). if anything people would give him the 20 footer and zone off on everyone else. kinda more so than they did with arroyo. this isnt the type of upgrade worth wasting time with.

They don't draw direct double teams, but they do draw additional defenders. When we beat teams off pick and rolls, screens, etc there is usually a help defender coming to the ball. That always leaves someone open. Even bad teams with bad players (like Charlotte) draw extra defenders when they beat their man. It just happens more often on teams with better overall players. Especially in an effective offense like we have. Teams cheat to one direction or another, even if you don't draw a full double team.

My point is simply Knight (or any PG) would have more open shots here than in Charlotte playing with guys less capable of getting their own shot.
i totally agree about teams cheating. thats part of my point. they do it to an extent. but its also a lil zoning to for knight to consistently hit jumpers for respect and i dont feel he can hold up in that spot.

I think Jay Williams would be worth a tryout. You might say he sucked, but he averaged 9.5 points and 4.7 assists in 26mpg as a rookie. He's a jump shooter, and scorer first, and that's what we are looking for. If we don't trade for a pg, I'd be interested in at least giving the kid a look-see. He says he's at 90% where he was athletically before the injury - if he's telling the truth the kid has to be better than Alex Acker.

If healthy, I have to think he's better than Acker. Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of Acker. I'll give him a chance to grow in the NBA (he's only a rookie), but my first impressions of him were not great. I like Max, and Amir's upside, but Acker looked like a SG in a PG body.

I think Jay Williams would be worth a tryout. You might say he sucked, but he averaged 9.5 points and 4.7 assists in 26mpg as a rookie. He's a jump shooter, and scorer first, and that's what we are looking for. If we don't trade for a pg, I'd be interested in at least giving the kid a look-see. He says he's at 90% where he was athletically before the injury - if he's telling the truth the kid has to be better than Alex Acker.

If healthy, I have to think he's better than Acker. Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of Acker. I'll give him a chance to grow in the NBA (he's only a rookie), but my first impressions of him were not great. I like Max, and Amir's upside, but Acker looked like a SG in a PG body.
well i hope you dont trust your first impression with it being preseason. alot of first impressions in preseason were that Darko would be in the rotation. We'll see, but i dont think theres a legitimate take on acker to be had yet.

I'm not saying cut the guy. I'm just saying I wouldn't trust him to be in the rotation this year. I have nothing against the guy...I'm just not a fan of mixing him into the rotation at all (until we have nothing to play for). I'd rather see if Delfino can handle the point some. Maybe Acker will be decent some day. I don't know. But he's not ready to help now.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/


February 17, 2006
Knight likely to stick with Bobcats
Brevin Knight comes up a lot around the NBA these days in trade
speculation, but I bet he's here Feb. 24 after the trade deadline expires.

My reasons:

1. Coach-GM Bernie Bickerstaff says he'd take Knight's wishes
into consideration. Knight doesn't particularly want to leave. He might be
interested in playing for a contender, but his family is in Charlotte and I
think he'd prefer not to be separated from them the rest of the season.

2. The Bobcats would need a lot from another team to justify
losing Knight. No matter how well rookie Raymond Felton is playing of late,
this team would still be far worse in Knight's absence.

3. There's a limited market for a 5-10 guard who is 30 years
old. He'd be most useful to a team that can win it all this season. There
aren't many of those teams in a burning need for a backup point guard.

4. The Bobcats owe Knight approximately $4.4 million next season,
and a lot of teams would reject inheriting that contract obligation

3. There's a limited market for a 5-10 guard who is 30 years
old. He'd be most useful to a team that can win it all this season. There
aren't many of those teams in a burning need for a backup point guard.

eh?? what about us?

I guess it would depend on what "a lot" means? If they want the Orlando first rounder, they can keep Brevin Knight, however if they'd accept a future Detroit first rounder, I might be willing to do that.

The thing is, in acquiring Brevin Knight, we are screwed if Billups goes down because he doesn't offer the scoring capabilities that Chancey brings to our team. IF we could acquire a Mike James, I think he would be decent insurance should Billups go down for any serious amount of time. James has been here before so we know who he'll be with our lockerroom, can score from anywhere on the court, is a good defender - physical like Chauncey, and likes taking the big shot.

TO wants desperately to rid themselves of Eric Williams, and I think Williams could be an asset to a play-off team, while he's rotting in TO. Something along the lines of Kelvin Cato, a future Detroit first round draft pick and maybe the Minnesota 2nd rounder for Mike James and Eric Williams. Williams has a player option for $4M next season, which he'll almost surely pick-up. If we could trade Mo Evans in a secondary deal for an expiring or Araujo(who could be cut by TO very soon), that might sweeten the pot even more as they'd be getting a back-up for Graham and actually getting value for their money. Araujo is more than likely a forever stiff, but a change of scenery could possibly benefit him. He's a throw in anyways, so any production would be a bonus, and in Detroit he could be a depth center without being seen as the huge draft day disappointment that TO sees him as.

So it would look something like Kelvin Cato, Mo Evans, Future Detroit first round draft pick(2007), Minnesota 2nd round draft pick 2006 in return for Mike James, Eric Williams and Rafael Araujo.

I guess it would depend on what "a lot" means? If they want the Orlando first rounder, they can keep Brevin Knight, however if they'd accept a future Detroit first rounder, I might be willing to do that.

The thing is, in acquiring Brevin Knight, we are screwed if Billups goes down because he doesn't offer the scoring capabilities that Chancey brings to our team. IF we could acquire a Mike James, I think he would be decent insurance should Billups go down for any serious amount of time. James has been here before so we know who he'll be with our lockerroom, can score from anywhere on the court, is a good defender - physical like Chauncey, and likes taking the big shot.

TO wants desperately to rid themselves of Eric Williams, and I think Williams could be an asset to a play-off team, while he's rotting in TO. Something along the lines of Kelvin Cato, a future Detroit first round draft pick and maybe the Minnesota 2nd rounder for Mike James and Eric Williams. Williams has a player option for $4M next season, which he'll almost surely pick-up. If we could trade Mo Evans in a secondary deal for an expiring or Araujo(who could be cut by TO very soon), that might sweeten the pot even more as they'd be getting a back-up for Graham and actually getting value for their money. Araujo is more than likely a forever stiff, but a change of scenery could possibly benefit him. He's a throw in anyways, so any production would be a bonus, and in Detroit he could be a depth center without being seen as the huge draft day disappointment that TO sees him as.

So it would look something like Kelvin Cato, Mo Evans, Future Detroit first round draft pick(2007), Minnesota 2nd round draft pick 2006 in return for Mike James, Eric Williams and Rafael Araujo.
The only flaw in your idea is that via Bosh's request, Mike Janmes is off the market and they emptied Rose in hopes of resigning him to keep Bosh happy.

Does anyone hear know where they have a list of the trade exceptions across the league? I will try to look for one on Google, but that would be very beneficial in creating hypothetical trades.

I don't want any trade where we have to take back salary. Such is the case with Eric Williams and Toronto. Besides, we have no chance of keeping James at year's end.

My new favorite trade (thanks WOD) is Cato and 2 second round picks to Houston for David Wesley and their trade exception from the Moochie Norris deal.

Next would be the T'Wolves second rounder for Jannero Pargo.

Following that up would be 2 second round picks for Flip Murray.

Then, it would be sign Mateen Cleaves out of Free Agency.

Next, Cato plus cash to Atlanta for Tony Delk.

RealGM is good for this kind of stuff:

http://www.realgm.com/src_team_exceptions/trade/

The way I look at things now is why bother trading for a back-up if they cannot be expected to fill in for Billups with any success. Hunter and Prince/Delfino/Acker can back-up Billups right now - might as well keep the picks and not pick up extra salary.

I don't see Mike James as anything more than a MLE player this off-season.

The only benefit to trading for a back-up would be that we'd probably be committing to less years in the length of the deal should we wait and address the need in free-agency this off-season.

I looked through all of the trade exceptions and none of them really benefit us.

The only new trade to throw out there is Cato for Kevin Ollie and a trade exception. Ollie will make $6 million over the next two years and Joe said he wanted $12 million under the luxury tax and right now he is at $15 million so we could afford the blow from Ollie's contract. But, Ollie stinks so I don't like that trade anyways. He's a minimum salary player and we would be paying him $6 million.

The reason I wouldn't mind acquirng Eric Williams is because I believe he's a better option for us this season than Mo Evans and would be a $4M expiring contract next season. Add that to Dale Davis' $3.5M expiring contract and combined it would give us a very solid chip to play at the deadline if we have a glaring hole or another Rasheed Wallace type deal is floating around to be had.

Orlando 2007 first round draft pick, Detroit 2007 first round draft pick and $7.5M in expiring contracts could get us just about anybody.

Potential 2007 free-agents that could be traded at trade deadline in 2007 -

Some free agents may be available if they take the one-year tender in 2006:

Some unrestricted free agents might include Dirk Nowitzki, Paul Pierce, Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, Chauncey Billups, Vince Carter, Nene, Antawn Jamison, Gerald Wallace, Jamaal Magloire, Brevin Knight, Melvin Ely, Maurice Williams, Drew Gooden, Chris Wilcox, Eddie Jones, James Posey, Desmond Mason, Jason Hart, Grant Hill, Fred Jones, Jalen Rose and John Salmons . . . among others.

Restricted free agents could include LeBron James, Chris Bosh, TJ Ford, Kirk Hinrich, Josh Smith, Mike Sweetney, David West, Kendrick Perkins, Chris Kaman, Josh Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, Leandro Barbosa, Boris Diaw, Mickael Pietrus and Jarvis Hayes . . . among others.

The reason I wouldn't mind acquirng Eric Williams is because I believe he's a better option for us this season than Mo Evans and would be a $4M expiring contract next season. Add that to Dale Davis' $3.5M expiring contract and combined it would give us a very solid chip to play at the deadline if we have a glaring hole or another Rasheed Wallace type deal is floating around to be had.
I don't agree with any of this.

I disagree that Williams is a better option for us than Evans. I think Williams is toast and I prefer the energy and hustle that Evans brings.

If we did combine Williams and Davis' salary, we could only get another expiring deal in return because remember, we are trying to save money to re-sign Chauncey in that offseason and stay under the luxury tax. And as you said, to get a solid player in return for those two players we'd have to include a first round pick, maybe even the Orlando one. But we couldn't re-sign this new player in the off-season because we can only afford Chauncey. So we would be giving up a first round pick, a chunk of our future, for a one year rental player, which I don't like.

What about Cato to Atl for Delk and Lue? It works on RealGM. What is wrong with Lue anyways? Is he injured?

I read somewhere that he is real close friends with Chauncey. Could be good for chemistry...

Lue was sitting next to Rip last night too.

Welcome ravage, looks like we have our third Aussie here.

Lue was sitting next to Rip last night too.

Welcome ravage, looks like we have our third Aussie here.

For the life of me I couldn't figure out whaat Lue was doing there? It looked like he was Rip's date for the evening. He had a Hawks Jersey draped around his neck, was it Spuds?

Oh. God. No.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002815093_starnotes19.html


Sund confirmed that the Sonics will not re-sign reserve guard Mateen Cleaves, whose second 10-day contract expired on Friday.

[smilie=anxious.gif]

Oh. God. No.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002815093_starnotes19.html


Sund confirmed that the Sonics will not re-sign reserve guard Mateen Cleaves, whose second 10-day contract expired on Friday.
In Teen's defense, he has been having a decent year.

Cleaves isn't really an option.

Oh. God. No.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002815093_starnotes19.html


Sund confirmed that the Sonics will not re-sign reserve guard Mateen Cleaves, whose second 10-day contract expired on Friday.

[smilie=hanged.gif] [smilie=inquisitive: [smilie=no.gif] [smilie=uhoh2.gif]

What about Cato to Atl for Delk and Lue? It works on RealGM. What is wrong with Lue anyways? Is he injured?

I read somewhere that he is real close friends with Chauncey. Could be good for chemistry...
As much as Lue is a pretty much average backup point guard, he has been the main guy at that position for Atlanta all season long. So I don't know how to convince them to trade their main point guard for Kato Kaelin.

I'd be willing to throw in the Minnesota second round pick. Would that be enough?

In Teen's defense, he has been having a decent year.

Yet Seattle doesn't even want him for the vet minimum.

In Teen's defense, he has been having a decent year.

Yet Seattle doesn't even want him for the vet minimum.
of course they dont, he plays high school level defense for Teens. [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

Yet Seattle doesn't even want him for the vet minimum.
True. I personally think he is worth that amount in towel waiving.

That's the tough part about losing Darko, he was the cheerleader off our bench, he really got the team into it. Mateen would be an okay replacement for that role I guess.



One trade (probably mentioned here but I missed it) that people have been talking about on other forums is Cato and the Orlando pick for Al Harrington and Tyronn Lue. That trade looks REALLY good for this year. And I think Atlanta would value that draft pick. However, we have no way of obtaining Al Harrington once the year is over. We have to re-sign Ben this year and Chauncey the next while staying under the luxury tax. There is no room for a new contract for Harrington in there. So, looking at this particular trade past this season, it would be the Orlando pick for Tyronn Lue, which is not a fair deal at all. This is not a good trade for Detroit.

How sweet would it be for Mateen to be waiving that towl during a playoff run? Seeing mateen go crazy would be the worth the price of admission.

Would Atlanta value the pick more than Milicic though?? I think Atlanta plans on re-signing Harrington. However since they have enough cap space, why not deal him and then try to resign him in the off-season...

I think it's a back-up pg or nothing...

I'm going to bring up a name from the "Where are they now?" file: Dajuan Wagner.

I'll play along.

Frank Williams?

Brandin Knight? (hey, if you can't get Brevin)

Howard Eisely?

Erick Strickland?


(this is not an endorsement)

I'll play along.

Frank Williams?
You mean, "the Knicks' point guard of the future?" He and Milos Vujanic were going to make one hell of a duo.



I'm just going to throw out a little warning here: If the Pistons don't pick up a point guard by the trade deadline in 3 days, don't panic. Another deadline comes a little over a month later: the March 31 playoff roster deadline. Every year there are a couple veteran players on bad teams that will politely ask their teams to waive them before that deadline so they can sign with another team that will play in the playoffs. A couple possible players this year are Tony Delk and Rick Brunson. Wait a minute, let me re-phrase myself. If we don't pick-up a new point guard in 3 days, DO panic. That is, unless you think Lindsey Hunter is the right backup for our team.



Another from where are they now? Troy Bell

McCosky:


Q . How close is president Joe Dumars to making a deal for another point guard?

A . He's continuing to sift through options, but as of Monday, nothing was imminent.

It's not like he's desperate to get a deal done. If the worst-case scenario is Alex Acker, Tayshaun Prince and Carlos Delfino have to work in as the No. 3 point guard, Dumars will live with that.

Also, the Pistons want to give their medical staff time to make a complete evaluation of Kelvin Cato's health. He's got a twisted right ankle and a cracked bone in his right foot. Orlando's last medical report said he wouldn't be able to start running on the foot until the end of this week.

Obviously, if they determine Cato could get healthy and contribute this season, that impacts his trade value and whether or not the Pistons keep him around the rest of the year.

Dumars was planning on making pitches for Speedy Claxton, Tyronn Lue and perhaps Brevin Knight. He could also dip into the minor leagues and pull up veteran Anthony Goldwire.

Goldwire = Championship

http://webcast1.fiberpipe.tv/channels/cba/images/Anthony_Goldwire2.jpg



(alsoIthinkhe'srelatedtoJoe,Imeanjustlookatthem)

Goldwire stats.

http://www.sunkings.com/stats.html

Note the 20 assist game earlier this year, and the avgs of 17pts/8asst/3rbs.

Also please note that you should not sleep on Pig Miller.

I wanna see Acker play. yee-haw.

I don't believe we'll make a trade. Flip seems open to using Prince/Delfino to back-up the point if necessary and really seems excited by Hunters defensive prowess. Billups is going to get 36-38mpg the rest of the season, leaving ten-twelve minutes for Hunter, Delfino/Prince and Acker. Why exactly do we need another PG?? And don't tell me for insurance agasint a Billups injury, because we'd be screwed reguardless as any pg we acquire now will be a serious downgrade to Billups anyways.

Might as well keep the Minnesota 2nd rounder - it will only be about ten places lower than our first rounder and non-guarenteed.

Does anybody know for certain if we get the Minnesota second rounder this season?? It was announced as a future first round pick, which makes me believe Minnesota might have the decision when to send it over and if that is the case, they probably would want to keep it when itis so high. Then again this is a weaker draft and they shouldn't be much better next season, if they improve at all, and it's said to be a deeper draft next year.

just wish we had like 2-3 games to experiment with the lineup before the trade deadline.

this might be a stupid question, but can we pick up free agents after the trade deadline?

Yes you can, according to Larry Coon and some Memphis Fan - http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=7772064#7772064. As long as they are not on any other NBA roster after March 1st 2006.

Yeah. There is the non-roster player deadline a little later when if a player is not on yor roster by that date they cannot be on the play-off roster sorta deal. So as long signed a FA by this date we'd be A-OK.

i don't understand.....so what's the point of the Feb 23rd trade deadline?

I was listening to the radio yesterday and someone called in and started ripping on McClueless. It was perfect. He said McClueless always acts high and mighty about trade rumors involving the Pistons and shoots them down, only for the trades to go down within 48 hours. Last week McClueless was on the radio talking down the Darko trade and saying their was no truth to it and people who mention the rumor don't know anything. HA HA HA! I can't stand this guy's arrogance and how he never breaks anything.

Matt,

Players waived after March 1 are ineligible for the playoffs.

http://www.nba.com/schedules/key_dates.html




2006 Key Dates

Feb. 17-19 NBA All-Star 2006 (Toyota Center, Houston, Texas)
Feb. 23 Trading Deadline, 3 p.m. ET
Feb. 23-March 1 NBA Rivalry Week
April 5-8 Portsmouth Invitational Tournament (Portsmouth, VA)
April 19 2005-06 NBA Regular Season ends
April 20 Rosters set for NBA Playoffs 2006, 3 p.m. ET
April 22 NBA Playoffs 2006 begin
April 29 NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline, 11:59 p.m. ET
May 23 NBA Draft Lottery
June 6-10 NBA Pre-Draft Camp
June 8 NBA Finals start date (possible move-up to June 6)
June 18 NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline
June 22 NBA Finals latest possible end date
June 28 NBA Draft (Theater at Madison Square Garden, New York, NY)
Oct. 31 2006-07 regular season opens

Nothing to see here...

Acker said after Monday's practice in Auburn Hills that he received a phone call from Joe Dumars during the All-Star break. Acker was back home visiting former teammates at Pepperdine and family in California.

"Joe Dumars has talked to me," Acker said. "He said, 'Here's your opportunity right here.'

"He just brought it to my attention that this is a big step for me. (You're) supposed to be ready every game, and that's what I did," Acker said. "Came to practice hard and just turned it on as much as I can."

Acker said he learned a lot from Arroyo, as well as the other guards.

"As far as him competing, he was there every day in practice playing hard, trying to get better," Acker said. "I didn't see him not once take a day off. If he can do that, why shouldn't I?"

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/SPORTS03/602210425/1051

To answer the second part of this thread: "And do we really need one?" It's an obvious yes. If Chauncey is going to play as many minutes every night as he did tonight, he will get tired walking at the end of the season. Lindsey looks old. And well, he is old. He can still be used for defensive spot minutes, but I don't think he is a reliable point guard at this stage of his career. And I love that Joe thinks highly of Acker, but we aren't going to rely on a rookie playing good minutes for us into the playoffs.

I am laughing my ass off here at Flip's broken-ass rotation. If Chauncey is going to play 44 minutes against the freaking HAWKS (with the game at about 16-20 lead for the last 6-7 minutes), then this team is in for a world of hurt. And I won't even get into him playing Evans a shitload, and giving Delfino a second-half DNP (outside of the last minute). To go along with playing Ben Wallace a completely insignificant minute and a half at the end of the game after subbing the other guys out. What happens when he lands on someones foot and sprains his ankle in those minutes?

[smilie=angryfire.g:

I am starting to see why Flip's T-Wolves were out of gas by the time the playoffs rolled around.

Another entry from Blakely's blog:


Kelvin Cato update...

It's looking more likely that the Pistons are going to keep him. They haven't come across any deals to their liking for a third point guard, and Cato is already out of the boot for his right ankle. The Pistons are going to gradually ease him into some drills, but anticipate getting him involved in practices within a couple of weeks.

That does not sound like a guy who is on his way out. Of course, Detroit has about another 26 hours to strike a deal, but it appears unlikely to happen.

At first, I didn't think this would work out because Cato, in the last year of his deal, desperately wants to play and prove that he still has some value. Even though Orlando is desperate for big men who can bang along with Dwight Howard, that franchise is focused on developing young talent which meant little to no role for Cato, even when he was healthy enough to return.

His chances to play in Detroit aren't going to be any better, but it's easier to stomach for him because of the circumstances. In Orlando, he wasn't going to play because they wanted to go with young guys. In Detroit, the Pistons want to win a title, which for a veteran like Cato, makes sitting on the bench easier to cope with.

This news sucks. I hope the duct tape on Hunters ankles holds up.

Another entry from Blakely's blog:


Kelvin Cato update...

It's looking more likely that the Pistons are going to keep him. They haven't come across any deals to their liking for a third point guard, and Cato is already out of the boot for his right ankle. The Pistons are going to gradually ease him into some drills, but anticipate getting him involved in practices within a couple of weeks.

That does not sound like a guy who is on his way out. Of course, Detroit has about another 26 hours to strike a deal, but it appears unlikely to happen.

At first, I didn't think this would work out because Cato, in the last year of his deal, desperately wants to play and prove that he still has some value. Even though Orlando is desperate for big men who can bang along with Dwight Howard, that franchise is focused on developing young talent which meant little to no role for Cato, even when he was healthy enough to return.

His chances to play in Detroit aren't going to be any better, but it's easier to stomach for him because of the circumstances. In Orlando, he wasn't going to play because they wanted to go with young guys. In Detroit, the Pistons want to win a title, which for a veteran like Cato, makes sitting on the bench easier to cope with.

[smilie=angryfire.g:

This news sucks. I hope the duct tape on Hunters ankles holds up.
http://www.nba.com/media/pistons/summerleague_2005_003.jpg

Flip on the radio this morning said he doubted that they were going to make a trade. But everyone says that before they make a trade, so who knows?

Speedy Claxton is not on the active roster for the Hornets tonight. I don't know if he's injured or something like that, but he is not listed on NBA.com. And Ric Bucher said that JR Smith will be traded. Cato plus the Orlando pick for Claxton and Smith?

Flip Murray is not playing tonight, Rick Brunson is playing over him. Reggie Evans isn't playing either. I think those two are pretty much locks to be traded. I wouldn't mind Murray here at all. Evans would be a little tougher to swallow because I like Maxiell better.

Kevin Ollie is starting in the backcourt with AI tonight. Strategy or showcase?

Speedy Sits With Sprained Ankle
22nd February, 2006 - 8:30 pm
AP - New Orleans point guard Speedy Claxton missed the Hornets' game Wednesday night against Utah with a sprained left ankle.

Claxton, New Orleans' third-leading scorer at 12.6 points, missed two games in November with a sprained right ankle but had played in all 51 of the Hornets' other games.

Hornets coach Byron Scott said there was no swelling in Claxton's ankle.

"It's just sore," Scott said. "I don't think he'll be out any more than just tonight. We've got a good couple of days before we go to Utah for this next road trip."

dammit. That still doesn't mean he can't be traded though.