If they get all these stress fractures then why would you blame it on them lifting weights?? Seems kind of odd that Izzo would routinely let his athletes continually lift weights knowing the history of stress fractures at Michigan State. I understand you need to lift weights, but apparently "how" to lift weights is a major issue with the Spartans. By the way, exactly which "lift" that you know of would cause a stress fracture of the shin??

If they get all these stress fractures then why would you blame it on them lifting weights?? Seems kind of odd that Izzo would routinely let his athletes continually lift weights knowing the history of stress fractures at Michigan State. I understand you need to lift weights, but apparently "how" to lift weights is a major issue with the Spartans. By the way, exactly which "lift" that you know of would cause a stress fracture of the shin??

It's not just lifting, but overworking. All kinds of strength training can lead to stress fractures and from what I hear it is not about how you are doing it, but how much. But, I'm no doctor.

Izzo is going to push for stronger tougher players, stress fractures are the downside of working ridiculously hard to get bigger, faster, etc. I'll take a couple of weeks in return for a much bigger/better player. If you look at pics or Raymar at the end of his high school season last year and look at him now, its obvious the dude has been living in the gym.

Yet another good win for the Spartans. We have some great developments too. Quise is playing out of his mind. This is the Quise I expected to see. He is playing killer D, shot blocking, rebounding better than anyone, and throwing it down. So excited to see this.

Suton and Dahlman are also playing well now. I can't believe this team is still playing this well. Especially without Raymar and MoJo today.

GO GREEN

Another problem could be that The Izzo forces his players to take all kinds of steroids, and the extra musculature is causing a problem for the players skeletal systems.
Also, they could be "Roid Ragin", and getting in fights and stuff in the locker rooms (out of the public eye), and getting stress fractures from that.
I think it's time to really take a look at The Izzo's program. It might be dirty.

^^^^^^^ Is this cat for real??? Mods, I think its time to get down to work.

Oh wow, another sissy calling for his Mommy and Daddy.^^^^^^
You belong on the Detroit News forums, there's all kinds of whining to moderators for help.
Grow up faggot.

For those who care to know, I'm an equal opportunity basher.
Everyone knows The Izzo runs a clean, tough program. I poke fun at MSU and their fans. Izzo loses star players, who probably can't handle tough practices, and other oddities, like going to class (Shannon Brown, Zach Randolph, Cotton).
I'm a Michigan fan, and I rip Lloyd. For instance, in today's Freep, there is yet another article where he is whining about not gling to the BCS game. Geez lloyd, shut the hell up already. you've lost to OSU THREE STRAIGHT. Done deal, you're not going to beat them as long as Troy Smith is there.
Anyway, calling for moderators is lame. You don't like something I post, call me a moron, and let's go to the Terrordome. Other wise, go to the News forums, where every other post is filled with some sissy calling for the moderators to ban a guy.

I'm sorry, the article I referenced above was from Saturday, Dec 9, but I just got it in my email updates from the NEWS, not the Freep.

Ummm...I think Zip is a little off his rocker. This dude is all over the place.

You've got some random post about poking fun and then you jump to Izzo losing stars?

Uh, generally "stars" do jump early. He didn't lose Brown/Randolph because they didn't like MSU. He lost them because they were projected first round picks. Cotton left because he was seriously homesick and lost a family member and friend to shootings. Most McDonald’s AAs don’t go to U of D for college unless there is a reason. Come informed or don’t come at all.

As far as him losing stars, you didn't happen to mention Mo Peterson (Senior All American), Mateen Cleaves (Senior 2 Time All American), Charlie Bell (Senior All Big Ten Player, NBA Draft pick), Andre Hudson (Senior All Big Ten Player, NBA Draft Pick), Paul Davis (NBA Draft Pick), Mo Ager (NBA Draft Pick).

Lloyd whining? No!? Couldn't be!

Dr Tre:
I didn't mention Cleeves or Peterson because The Izzo DIDN'T lose them. Of course, I didn't mean he loses ALL of his best players, and I didn't say he loses stars because they "didn't like MSU".
But I do think that if they DID like MSU, or the college experience in general, then they might not have gone early. I don't buy into the argument that players leave early just for the money (but I can't blame them if they do, that's for sure).
Having said all that, I find it funny that in the magical world of Spartyville The Izzo is always granted a free pass when it comes to players leaving or seasons that don't live up to expectations. In fact, expectations are LOWERED to meet the level of play the Sparties put out. One need look no further than the thread entitled "Izzo's best season ever?" where Sparties are wondering if this year qualifies as a gem of a coaching job after just 10 games or so.
As for the "off his rocker" comment, well, thanks for the compliment!

Dr Tre:
I didn't mention Cleeves or Peterson because The Izzo DIDN'T lose them. Of course, I didn't mean he loses ALL of his best players, and I didn't say he loses stars because they "didn't like MSU".
But I do think that if they DID like MSU, or the college experience in general, then they might not have gone early. I don't buy into the argument that players leave early just for the money (but I can't blame them if they do, that's for sure).
Having said all that, I find it funny that in the magical world of Spartyville The Izzo is always granted a free pass when it comes to players leaving or seasons that don't live up to expectations. In fact, expectations are LOWERED to meet the level of play the Sparties put out. One need look no further than the thread entitled "Izzo's best season ever?" where Sparties are wondering if this year qualifies as a gem of a coaching job after just 10 games or so.
As for the "off his rocker" comment, well, thanks for the compliment!

Yeah expectations connected to the players you have is CRAZY!

Shouldn't Duke be expected to win the title this year then? Same with Zona, Kentucky, MSU, and UConn, right. They are premier programs, so shouldn't they win a title and nothing less? No, UConn lost a bunch of talent, same with Duke, Zona, and the rest.

What the fuck is a "Zona"?
Are you speaking ESPN Lounge Lizzard Lingo to me?
AND, I couldn't give two fucking rats asses about UConn. I mean, I'm on the Detroit forum, not "WTF-Hartford".
Pardonnez Moi, but you've been SERVED.

Speaking of ESPN Lounge Lizzard Lingo, thanks to this collection of geeks (and, were it not for ESPN, the world would have about 50 more Denny's managers or used car salesmen), we have a lovely new Sports Lexicon, which includes this (and feel free to add to it, amigos):
Cuse
Zona
Stro's
Dbacks
Spo's (The dear departed Montreal Expos. My, EXPOS is such a long word)
Stons
ATH-A-LEET
StreNTH
And my new favorite: There must have come from on high at ESPN a memo telling them to pronounce a certain university by making it sound like they are a combination of some simpering French guy clearing his throat of a piece of rotten escargot and a cowboy emerging from his tent on Brokeback Mountain.
I give you the latest entry into the "Book of How ESPN IS Ruining The English Language": "HHHgggggOOOVggghhhavgghhlle"
I'd just rather go back to saying LOOOEEEVille.
Thank you all for letting me vent.

Ok, aside from the fact that Zip is a troll, let's move on. If he has his way every thread will be about his ridiculous statements and not the subject at hand.

Subject in MSU hoops thread should be MoJo's injury. However, he and Morgan should both be back before State plays another game against a real opponent.

Izzo is certainly lucky he didn't produce another one of his killer schedules, because whether or not this is his best work, this team would have crumbled and died if they faced real competition.

Now don't fire back and talk about Michigan's schedule, because I know it's typically laughable. That's not the point. This State team, facing a typical State schedule, would be light years from the Top 25.

Okay, I'm not even bothering responding to Zip anymore. The dude has never heard of Arizona being referred to as Zona. WOW. Their fans refer to them as Zona more than they do "Arizona." Just a pathetic performance by Zip.

Back on topic like Jethro mentioned:
WTF on the stress fractures! A team with little to no depth gets 2 freaking stress fractures from key players. It just sucks. Had Trannon decided to play this wouldn't have been as big of a deal, but sooner or later you aren't going to have anyone left and you might lose to Joke U.

Good news? State is up to #23 in the country in the coaches poll. I like that it is the coaches poll too. The media gets wrapped up in garbage, coaches know good basketball. MSU might not be ultra talented, but they are playing the right way and doing a helluva job at it.

More good news? Deon Curry is joining the team and he's probably going to play this week. Who is Deon Curry? Well, he's not your typical walk-on player from the football team. He is indeed a young WR for State, but he's also the son of former Piston Michael Curry! I'm really excited about him joining, apparantly he's very athletic and played well for Detroit Country Day. He should help.

Speaking of ESPN Lounge Lizzard Lingo, thanks to this collection of geeks (and, were it not for ESPN, the world would have about 50 more Denny's managers or used car salesmen), we have a lovely new Sports Lexicon, which includes this (and feel free to add to it, amigos):
Cuse
Zona
Stro's
Dbacks
Spo's (The dear departed Montreal Expos. My, EXPOS is such a long word)
Stons
ATH-A-LEET
StreNTH
And my new favorite: There must have come from on high at ESPN a memo telling them to pronounce a certain university by making it sound like they are a combination of some simpering French guy clearing his throat of a piece of rotten escargot and a cowboy emerging from his tent on Brokeback Mountain.
I give you the latest entry into the "Book of How ESPN IS Ruining The English Language": "HHHgggggOOOVggghhhavgghhlle"
I'd just rather go back to saying LOOOEEEVille.
Thank you all for letting me vent.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/blsmoove/retard.jpg

The son of Michael Curry? Do you know what Michael Curry references get you on WTF? It's the matrix, it's programming code, it's a stat line that reads 0000101100101, and none of the 10 combinations are tens. That's a one, and a zero.

The son of Michael Curry? Do you know what Michael Curry references get you on WTF? It's the matrix, it's programming code, it's a stat line that reads 0000101100101, and none of the 10 combinations are tens. That's a one, and a zero.

If you've got to add a football player to your squad, I'd rather it be the son of any NBA player than the son of a nobody.

Watch out Zip..you are getting tag teamed...thread could be closing.

Man, oh man.
Now you have gone and done it. What's yor problem with Bob Ross? I mean, I can understand if you're angry because I don't spend 23 hours a day jerking my pud to a picture of the Midget of Iron Mountain, The Izzo, but to defame the great Bob Ross like that? That just shows a complete lack of class.

What is with "The Izzo"

Can't type? Meant to write The Izzone? So much respect that you put "The" in front of his name?

Well, now that you mention it, I DO respect the hell out of the lil fella.
Great accomplishments, making a difference in young people's lives, representing the State of Michigan with dignity and class, and still has enough time to pose for that corny picture you use in your signature.

Well, I'm going to expect close victories like this from here on out. State is on life support in terms of depth. However, I am really happy with Neitzel's performance. It wasn't just that he dropped 32, but that he answered when Chicago State made runs. He's logging huge minutes and having to carry his team on his shoulders at times.

As long as he doesn't get wore out, Lights Out is going to have a huge year like I predicted.

Going into this game he scored 20+ in 5 of the last 7 games, adds to it with 32 last night. Ya gotta love it

I actually sat down and watched MSU play last night and I have a couple of observations:
1) I really thought that Dahlman guy is a good player. He kept his head when Chicago State was making a run, and is the only reason that MSU stayed ahead in the beginning of the second half.
2) I think the backup PGs name is Ducre, or something like that... well he blows. I haven't seen a more timid point guard since Avery Queen in the NCAA. How is that guy on an Izzo team?
3) Neitzel is a helluva player. He's quick as hell, and he's great under pressure. The only problem with him, and Sparty fans correct me if I'm wrong, he looks to have a little bit of an attitude. He was pouting when he wasn't in to start the second half, and he looks to always be scowling about something.
4) Gray is the typical PF that Izzo loves - hard working and big. I think he could develop for the Spartans.


Without Neitzel, the Spartans are in trouble. While I don't think they're top 25 material, I do think there better than they're supposed to be. Maybe Izzo can get them playing well at the right time, and this team will surprise a lot of people.

I actually sat down and watched MSU play last night and I have a couple of observations:
1) I really thought that Dahlman guy is a good player. He kept his head when Chicago State was making a run, and is the only reason that MSU stayed ahead in the beginning of the second half.
2) I think the backup PGs name is Ducre, or something like that... well he blows. I haven't seen a more timid point guard since Avery Queen in the NCAA. How is that guy on an Izzo team?
3) Neitzel is a helluva player. He's quick as hell, and he's great under pressure. The only problem with him, and Sparty fans correct me if I'm wrong, he looks to have a little bit of an attitude. He was pouting when he wasn't in to start the second half, and he looks to always be scowling about something.
4) Gray is the typical PF that Izzo loves - hard working and big. I think he could develop for the Spartans.


Without Neitzel, the Spartans are in trouble. While I don't think they're top 25 material, I do think there better than they're supposed to be. Maybe Izzo can get them playing well at the right time, and this team will surprise a lot of people.

If that was the first time you saw MSU, you were watching a different team than the healthy Spartans. Dup is a walkon from Saginaw, never sees the floor EVER. The only reason he got time is because of their injuries.

Dahlman is developing and will be a real nice wing player, I agree.

Keep in mind MSU was missing 2 of their best players, Raymar Morgan and MoJo. These guys are both scorers and play wing positions. Trust me, everything is jacked with them not playing. Less scoring, whack rotations, nobody that can get the ball in the post, etc. etc.

I'm really really nervous about this game tonight. We have NO DEPTH, haven't had much rest, and Belmont is actually decent. They have a veteran lineup.

I hope we can jump on them early because if not, this one could get scary.

Go State!

I'm really really nervous about this game tonight. We have NO DEPTH, haven't had much rest, and Belmont is actually decent. They have a veteran lineup.

I hope we can jump on them early because if not, this one could get scary.

Go State!

Agreed. We have, literally, no backup schollie kids at the 1-3.

Well, a win is a win and right now I don't care how we get them. I don't care if they are comeback wins, 2 pt wins, etc. With no depth whatsoever, every win is somewhat impressive.

Neitzel continues to destroy opponents and act as a MAJOR leader.

I'm not trying to be a jick here, but I'm asking a question. I have no recent experience with being a fan of a ranked hoops team, so that's why I'm asking this. When you're ranked and you struggle against bad teams but you can point to injuries as an excuse of sorts, do the voters tend to be merciful or do they hold it against you?

Again, please don't disect this and think I'm trying to be a punk. I really hope to be in this position someday, you know, ranked and all for more than 1 week. I'm just wondering how my squad will potentially be treated when (if) that happens.

I'm not trying to be a jick here, but I'm asking a question. I have no recent experience with being a fan of a ranked hoops team, so that's why I'm asking this. When you're ranked and you struggle against bad teams but you can point to injuries as an excuse of sorts, do the voters tend to be merciful or do they hold it against you?

Again, please don't disect this and think I'm trying to be a punk. I really hope to be in this position someday, you know, ranked and all for more than 1 week. I'm just wondering how my squad will potentially be treated when (if) that happens.

Depends how much they are watching you specifically.

If you aren't getting pub, and are just getting the score report viewed by voters, you drop; if you are all over TV and have publicized injuries, you generally get to stay.

Its also very dependant on whether those injuries are expected to return come tourney time.

Depends how much they are watching you specifically.

If you aren't getting pub, and are just getting the score report viewed by voters, you drop; if you are all over TV and have publicized injuries, you generally get to stay.

Agreed. If they are knowledgeable voters, they will understand the situation. Most people have heard about the 2 stress fractures so they probably give State slack and they should.

Two losses at this point is just about right. DaMaster rigged the schedule perfectly knowing the hand he had to play this season. They have played 3-4, maybe 5 teams with a pulse interspersed with the cupcakes. The injuries to Raymar and MoJo, unforeseen, will cut both ways. It hinders their progression obviously and it fucks with the rotations he had in mind. On the flipside young Dahlmann is getting minutes he probably wouldn't have had they not gone down. He is capitalizing in his acclimation.

I'm thinking that Izzo is enjoying this after taking a turn as a "shrink" last year juggling ego's and minutes for 3 guys jockeying for position in the NBA Draft. What a fucking nightmare. Different post for a different day. I'd like to see Tre's take on that. Anyhoo now Izzo is back doing what he does best. Coaching. Look at those "Bigs" go after the ball. Suton, IMHO, will go down as one of the best bigs ever at MSU after 4 years. He's got the whole package. He needs to start dropping those 12-15 footers at a 50% clip. He also needs to "recognize" and fire it the moment he see it's there. That's his shot.

Anyway if MSU gets in the dance it will be a major accomplishment with these youngsters. Truth be told this season is all about keeping collective fingers in the dike until next years "kiddie corps" arrive. Man if these kids couild somehow snare a B-10 3rd place finish that would be gravy. So far so good.

Two losses at this point is just about right. DaMaster rigged the schedule perfectly knowing the hand he had to play this season. They have played 3-4, maybe 5 teams with a pulse interspersed with the cupcakes. The injuries to Raymar and MoJo, unforeseen, will cut both ways. It hinders their progression obviously and it fucks with the rotations he had in mind. On the flipside young Dahlmann is getting minutes he probably wouldn't have had they not gone down. He is capitalizing in his acclimation.

I'm thinking that Izzo is enjoying this after taking a turn as a "shrink" last year juggling ego's and minutes for 3 guys jockeying for position in the NBA Draft. What a fucking nightmare. Different post for a different day. I'd like to see Tre's take on that. Anyhoo now Izzo is back doing what he does best. Coaching. Look at those "Bigs" go after the ball. Suton, IMHO, will go down as one of the best bigs ever at MSU after 4 years. He's got the whole package. He needs to start dropping those 12-15 footers at a 50% clip. He also needs to "recognize" and fire it the moment he see it's there. That's his shot.

Anyway if MSU gets in the dance it will be a major accomplishment with these youngsters. Truth be told this season is all about keeping collective fingers in the dike until next years "kiddie corps" arrive. Man if these kids couild somehow snare a B-10 3rd place finish that would be gravy. So far so good.

Great post, good to see another informed Spartan here. The thing about the injuries that really worries me is how it has affected the progression of Raymar and MoJo. They were making HUGE strides and now they haven't been able to play for weeks. This is going to hurt them big time and when they come back, they will be rusty.

It really sucks because State had an opportunity to make a nice little run at the start of BT play. If you look at the schedule prior to the OSU game, it is really nice. I'm really disappointed in those injuries because Izzo has done a fantastic job.

Lord Izzo is bemoaning the loss of valuable developement time for Raymar and Mojo. As of Saturday they are out of their "boots" and it is hoped that Saturday they will be able to jog. All this downtime has them missing double sessions prepping them for the Big 10 open. Meanwhile today young Dahlmann starts again and will be defending an NBA bound #2 guard. Ugh!! Get healthy fellas.

"Informed Spartan"
Isn't that an oxymoron?

"Informed Spartan"
Isn't that an oxymoron?

haha, get 'em Zip.

I couldn't be more disappointed right now. With a fairly okay start to the BT schedule MSU will be missing Raymar and Mojo for at least their first two games. This just flat out sucks. Izzo has done everything in his power to have a nice season and this sets everything back.

We could get through jokester teams without two key scorers, but not the BT. MSU will no doubt open up with two losses versus Iowa and Indiana making it much much tougher to have a decent BT season. I was really excited about the possibility of potentially finishing 3rd or even higher in the BT. So much for that.

We could get through jokester teams without two key scorers, but not the BT. MSU will no doubt open up with two losses versus Iowa and Indiana making it much much tougher to have a decent BT season. I was really excited about the possibility of potentially finishing 3rd or even higher in the BT. So much for that.

Iowa is not good. Road games are always tough in the BT, but with physical play upfront I think MSU wins tonight.

Unfortunately, a loss at Bloomington is a given most seasons.

I wasn't one bit surprised by the Iowa loss given Mojo just getting back, Raymar out, and this being on the road. However, I'm frustrated because had Suton not bitched out for the entire game, we still could have won.

I don't care if he offers up a good game once in awhile, this guy is as inconsistent and mentally weak as Davis was. I'm sick of these mentally soft white big guys.

I don't care if he offers up a good game once in awhile, this guy is as inconsistent and mentally weak as Davis was. I'm sick of these mentally soft white big guys.

Agreed. It's gonna be a long conference season if the entire frontcourt doesn't play with more strength. Trannon wasn't a worldbeater, but if he did anything it was play with strength and tenacity. Suton, Gray, Naymick, and Ibok need to find a way to raise their game up, at least a little, in both those areas.

..is what this season is all about. Waiting on the cavalry in the form of Kalin, Durrel and Chris. If MSU splits with U-M I'll take it gladly.

..is what this season is all about. Waiting on the cavalry in the form of Kalin, Durrel and Chris. If MSU splits with U-M I'll take it gladly.

I wouldn't.

After RayMo and MoJo get back in the groove, we should be solid, if not great, and that should be more than enough to beat Michigan from what I've seen of them.

Next year it starts getting fun though.

I wouldn't.

After RayMo and MoJo get back in the groove, we should be solid, if not great, and that should be more than enough to beat Michigan from what I've seen of them.

Next year it starts getting fun though.

I understand you guys are hyped about your solid recruiting class, but you're really only going to have 3 slashing 4 stars that will be true freshmen. They're good players, not saviors like Oden and OSU's class.

I understand you guys are hyped about your solid recruiting class, but you're really only going to have 3 slashing 4 stars that will be true freshmen. They're good players, not saviors like Oden and OSU's class.

Slashing athletic guards are exactly what this team is missing though...and they're all on the verge of being 5 stars FWIW. Another dead-eye 3 point shooter in Allen is going to be a nice (and neccessary) addition as well.

Add in Herzog who I'm assuming will immediately be better than Ibok and Naymick and you begin to understand why these four freshmen will improve the prospects of next year's team...significantly.

This team doesn't need a savior. It needs more speed, athleticism and depth in the backcourt and more strength, experience and talent in the frontcourt.

They lose nobody and they gain a lot.

Izzo will have a lot of talented options to play with.

I understand you guys are hyped about your solid recruiting class, but you're really only going to have 3 slashing 4 stars that will be true freshmen. They're good players, not saviors like Oden and OSU's class.

3 4 star guards for a team with NO guard depth. AND a 4 star C.

And all 3 stars could (easily) be 5 stars.

Summers - 19 per Telep
Allen - Made U18 team, and did well last year, despite being a junior going against TOP seniors and top juniors
Lucas - in and out of being a 5 star

So pretty much a TON of talent. And we lose NO ONE. And it is the type of talent we need. We can't score, can't run, and get owned if anyone isn't on. That is what these guys are going to fix.

And no these aren't Oden, but they are Conley, Lighty, and the rest.

And once again we lose NOBODY.

I understand you guys are hyped about your solid recruiting class, but you're really only going to have 3 slashing 4 stars that will be true freshmen. They're good players, not saviors like Oden and OSU's class.


Oh yeah Oden. With 2 minutes left in the game against Cheezitz he had 5 points, 4 boards and 6 blocks. #1 pick in the draft my anus. Add those other two hot dogs, Cook and Conley who throw up more junk than a 1970 ABA All Star game and you have a "Thad Five" who appear to be a situation where the inmates are running Thad's asylum.

Seriously they were playing better pre-Oden. In his defense I'm aware of the wrist but their shit is not working. It's Cheezitz and let's be honest. All the rest are playing for 2nd place.

Let's face it. When you take your 6'-0" point guard who led the Big 10 in assist to TO ratio last year and make him a #2 because he's your best scoring option you're in the shit. I love Drew but dude can't get his shot off. That said he needs help. Who is going to provide it? I have no fucking answers for sure. I must say I've so enjoyed watching these guys scrap this year compared to that insufferable bunch last year I could shit myself. I'm rooting like hell but it's going uphill looking for 8-8 IMHO. It's about these guys improving, geting their chops and sniffing Big 10 competition this season. Help is on the way.

I also prefer watching the hard working bunch scrap thru games rather than be loaded down with talent that doesn't pan out. I wonder if Drew not having much help scoring will ultimately hurt his career development. Clearly he isn't a prolific scorer (but guys like white chocolate can have long careers being a streaky scorer from the PG spot), so will not being able to be a true PG all the time hurt his development? You can't question his heart though.

Real Question: What do you guys think this year would be like so far if Shannon would've decide to stay and how would it impact the rest of the season and future seasons/recruits?

Real Question: What do you guys think this year would be like so far if Shannon would've decide to stay and how would it impact the rest of the season and future seasons/recruits?

In terms of recruiting Zip. No not you Goshboots. He sure would have taken the heat off Drew though in terms of scoring. The cupboard is full at E.L. for 2007 in East Lansing for recruits unles the do some finagling. The wheels in motion for 2008. They will reappear prominently on the national front after a lull this year.

Real Question: What do you guys think this year would be like so far if Shannon would've decide to stay and how would it impact the rest of the season and future seasons/recruits?

Had Shannon stayed, this team would have went from good to great. From just barely making the tournament to Sweet 16. It might have swayed somebody like Roe more as well with him watching his choice schools and how they play this season.

I understand you guys are hyped about your solid recruiting class, but you're really only going to have 3 slashing 4 stars that will be true freshmen. They're good players, not saviors like Oden and OSU's class.

I love how you continually downplay this recruiting class. "solid" ???? I don't think "solid" is the word you use when UM has a Top 5 football recruiting class.

Saviors? Okay, every single MSU recruit coming in next year is just as good as the guards OSU brought in. Oden is the only guy that could be considered a "savior." And I'm sorry if I come across like a UM football fan when I say this, but we are Michigan State. We don't need "saviors." OSU needed "saviors." And if you think the three studs we have coming in are slashers, than you haven't read up on them much. Chris Allen is a crazy 3 point shooter. Izzo said he's the best shooter he's ever recruited. The fact that he can also fly high with the best of them doesn't mean he's a slasher. They are the perfect combo. Allen-extremely quick, great passer, nice pull up Summers-High flyer that is long and can rebound as well as throw it down Allen-the deadly shooter that can finish at the rim if needed

You couldn't ask for a better trio to add to this year's team. We'll see if you are downplaying them next year.

And I'm sorry if I come across like a UM football fan when I say this, but we are Michigan State. We don't need "saviors." OSU needed "saviors."

HAHAHA! Hilarious! "We are Michigan State". That's the boldest statement possible. Very bold coming from a cat who roots for a university who hasn't won the Big Ten in 7 years and has started 0-2 the last 2 years. You might need something.

HAHAHA! Hilarious! "We are Michigan State". That's the boldest statement possible. Very bold coming from a cat who roots for a university who hasn't won the Big Ten in 7 years and has started 0-2 the last 2 years. You might need something.

We do have a national title in that 7 years timeframe, so yeah, you're full of shit. We also have 3(?) Final 4's and a bunch of elite 8's in that period.

MSU needs something, there has been 1 year since a long NCAA trip. OMG!!!!!!!! And they only lost 3 kids to the NBA this past year, and are playing with 9 schollie players this year. OMG's.

HAHAHA! Hilarious! "We are Michigan State". That's the boldest statement possible. Very bold coming from a cat who roots for a university who hasn't won the Big Ten in 7 years and has started 0-2 the last 2 years. You might need something.

Where the hell are you getting your information? MGoBlue.com? We won the Big Ten in 2000 and 2001. It is 2007 right? What kind of math are you doing? And those two BT titles came as part of our 4 straight streak.

And because we are MICHIGAN STATE and not Michigan football, we care about more than BT titles. We won the National Championship in 2000, remember? We also have 3 Final Fours during your period and 4 Elite 8's as Detroit mentioned. Thank you for reminding me just how great the last 7 years have been.

Work on your Math, your History, and come back and visit us when you're caught up.

I'm not an MSU fan, but it's pretty lame to rip on MSU basketball. They are a top 3 program the last 7 years so I'm not sure how you can really rip on them. What program has been better in basketball since 2000?

Duke, Maryland, Syracuse, Uconn, UNC and Florida have been champs since then. How many of those have been to the final 4 consistantly in that time? Maryland and Syracuse haven't had much success since. Duke has had early exits. UNC didn't do much until they won it all. Uconn had a drought after the RIP years, and Florida didn't do much from 2000-last year. Maybe someone with more time can break down the tournament runs for all those teams.

And because we are MICHIGAN STATE and not Michigan football, we care about more than BT titles. We won the National Championship in 2000, remember? We also have 3 Final Fours during your period and 4 Elite 8's as Detroit mentioned. Thank you for reminding me just how great the last 7 years have been.

All I know is that I went to the Big Ten website that goes back to the 2001-2002 season and they have MSU down for 0 championships. I wasn't able to find any info on 2001, so that is my mistake. I guess you can make that 6 years without a Big Ten title. Samsonite...I was way off. Also, like Jethro says, nice job on getting close to a championship a few times.



Work on your Math, your History, and come back and visit us when you're caught up.

Ok, I'll brush up, if you work on your grammar (or is it Grammar?). No need to capitalize subjects in school.

All I know is that I went to the Big Ten website that goes back to the 2001-2002 season and they have MSU down for 0 championships. I wasn't able to find any info on 2001, so that is my mistake. I guess you can make that 6 years without a Big Ten title. Samsonite...I was way off. Also, like Jethro says, nice job on getting close to a championship a few times.

Ok, I'll brush up, if you work on your grammar (or is it Grammar?). No need to capitalize subjects in school.

Maybe you should just admit when you're wrong. Chris pretty much worked over your whack attempt to rip on State.

And I gotta give Chris some props even though he rips into me quite a bit. I'm not lumping him with the UM fans because he comes with info and is fairly unbiased.

Had Shannon stayed, this team would have went from good to great. From just barely making the tournament to Sweet 16. It might have swayed somebody like Roe more as well with him watching his choice schools and how they play this season.
Doc, I gotz to disagree with Shannon being a catalyst from good to great. Great hops, streaky shooter, and?????????????????????????? Maybe so-so defender? I haven't checked his minutes in the NBA. They were diminishing last I looked. Even with S.B. this season would have been a run for third place. As far as recruiting goes I don't see what he brings to the table. Young Roe know Shannon went to MSU. He knows the numbers in terms of bodies that DaMaster has put into the League. Right now I'm sitting here trying to figure out how MSU matches up with Illinois Sunday. 8-8 is going to be an epic struggle. One game at a time. I DO enjoy this team though. How about the two "nothing but nets" by Marquise from the elbow? That was encouraging. He brings a steady diet of those to the table (50%) and it's a new ball game.

Doc, I gotz to disagree with Shannon being a catalyst from good to great. Great hops, streaky shooter, and?????????????????????????? Maybe so-so defender? I haven't checked his minutes in the NBA. They were diminishing last I looked. Even with S.B. this season would have been a run for third place. As far as recruiting goes I don't see what he brings to the table. Young Roe know Shannon went to MSU. He knows the numbers in terms of bodies that DaMaster has put into the League. Right now I'm sitting here trying to figure out how MSU matches up with Illinois Sunday. 8-8 is going to be an epic struggle. One game at a time. I DO enjoy this team though. How about the two "nothing but nets" by Marquise from the elbow? That was encouraging. He brings a steady diet of those to the table (50%) and it's a new ball game.

MSU has 2 backup guards, and that's while everyone is healthy. Shannon staying would've let Drew stay at PG, and then we'd have A. an offense, B. Better D(compared to when MoJo is playing at least), and so on.

And Shannon has been rotating between starts and DNP-CD's.

I believe Shannon would have helped. Helped win the Big Ten Title this year? I don't know, they would have had a shot. But I'm in the boat with hipdigit, I'm thinking about the Illini.

This is a key game for the Spartans and I'm predicting a win. IF we get this win, we've got some more winable games coming and UM is up soon. We can put 3-4 possible victories together.

This one against Illinois is a key though. It gets us rolling. After the Illini game, MSU has a week off and that is going to be huge for practice time. Izzo said that they've had practically no quality practices with the injuries. They were unable to get anything accomplished and it showed in their first two BT games. With more practice time, MoJo and Raymar will get back into the swing and we'll start playing Top 25 ball again.

Check that last post, the schedule I got in Izzo's office is wrong for some reason. They don't have UM coming up. OSU instead-yuck. There are winnable games coming though. But the Big Ten scheduling has me soooo pissed off.

You look at their schedule and see NW and Penn St. only once and it is very frustrating. 8-8 will be a monster challenge when you look at it.

GREAT win by the Spartans today. 28-5 run in the second half!? That is almost unbelievable. They could have easily tanked the rest of the game after being down double digits in the second half. But, their defense was stellar and it led to buckets on the other end. Now we can use practice time to get back to where we were prior to the injures.

Excellent job by the Spartans to fight back. FEELIN' IT!

The Brez went CRAZY! Bout time it got loud again.

The Brez went CRAZY! Bout time it got loud again.

Izzo mentioned in the latest Spartan that he wasn't happy with the Izzone at times last year (not as loud as you'd expect) and he mentioned the fact that he wasn't happy about the Illinois game not being sold out.

I honestly get pissed at the Izzone at times when I watch games. If you watch the Cameron Crazies, the entire section is jumping up and down at all times after buckets. I see large parts of the Izzone not getting as into it as they used to back in the Flintstone days. I did notice how loud it got today, but earlier during struggles, it wasn't at all. I don't like that, its the students job to light a fire under the players once in awhile. If they don't want to give full effort, let one of the other thousand kids that waited all night for a spot in the Izzone have yours.

That was a balls out performance yesterday. I thought that jig was up at the half. Man that Travis Walton seems to be constantly overlooked and he is just a stone baller. I know I take him for granted. No TO's acute court awareness. Best of all he is becoming more confident as an offensive option.

Goran mixed it up with some big boys. Same with Naymick. Raymar is learning on the fly. Drew just keeps on keeping on. MoJo has shown he's got the stroke of a pure shooter. He's just going to get better. I think Isaiah went into shock at the physical nature of the game at times yesterday. He got his "a-ha Big 10 moment". Brutal. Now to go steal one at Pee U.

Wow, great game by Sparty. I of course didn't watch one second of it, but I was channel surfing in between Book TV on channel 6 and The Histroy Channel (because that's what I do), AND hating the fact that it was snowing. Then, if you put that all together with the fact that I knew that on Monday, my kids had the day off from school and would be home nagging me to death, I was pretty amzed to see Sparty down by nine or ten at halftime.
Well, needless to say, I get all my sports from WTF, and Sparty won! I'd say that shows some pretty good sized nads, and that all comes from having The Izzo for a coach. That guy is nails.

Wow, great game by Sparty. I of course didn't watch one second of it, but I was channel surfing in between Book TV on channel 6 and The Histroy Channel (because that's what I do), AND hating the fact that it was snowing. Then, if you put that all together with the fact that I knew that on Monday, my kids had the day off from school and would be home nagging me to death, I was pretty amzed to see Sparty down by nine or ten at halftime.
Well, needless to say, I get all my sports from WTF, and Sparty won! I'd say that shows some pretty good sized nads, and that all comes from having The Izzo for a coach. That guy is nails.

They did come out with a completely different intensity defensively. Man, I just love seeing old Spartan basketball back. Can't wait to see it done with top notch talent next year.

I'm going to the game tonight. Looking forward to another Spartan victory. I think this is the game Raymar returns completely to form. He's getting 15 and 8 tonight.

Go State!

I heard earlier today that ESPN is going to Columbus on Saturday for Gameday and the Sparties will get a chance to be in primetime and do some damange against the Thad Five. Kinda wish I could watch it.....should be a pretty damn good game.

MSU really played well last night. Minny was WAY overmatched but it was the intensity that MSU brought that stood out. They didn't play down to the competition like last years team would have done. Up by 25 and Naymick and others were on the floor digging out loose balls. This could have been a trap game with the fellas having an eye toward C-Bus but NOOO! They jumped on them both feet. They are improving and I'm excited for Izzo and the way he's got them playing. Anything can happen Saturday Night.

I was at the game last night and it was a treat. First appearance this season at a game, and there were some cool things that I enjoyed. Their pregame video that flashes every banner they have hanging with Izzo pumping his fist gave me goosebumps. The video cut off to Walton kicking the locker room door open yelling into the camera. The second he kicked open the door, the Izzone went crazy jumping up and down. Having the Izzone now wrap completely around the court is sooooo impressive. It is an unreal atmosphere. I can't imagine being an opposing player.

As was previously stated, MSU's intensity was just awesome. Guys were diving on the floor for loose balls, pumping their fists, and chest bumping when they were up 30. The emotion never let up.

Antonio Smith is now an assistant coach. I'm loving that. He doesn't get the credit he deserves. Had he not committed to MSU, Cleaves wouldn't have been there and neither would this rich tradition we now have. So glad to see him behind the bench helping.

Really really big game tonight. A road victory at Illinois would be awesome. Illinois isn't that good, but they are much better at home. They smoked Indiana at home which is a little scary.

Hopefully we can keep the positive vibe going and get a big win. Go State!

If you ever wanted to know what it is like being a Michigan fan Sparties.......last night was extremely close to the dissapointment that we feel more often than not! Watched the whole game and I had a few Sparties with me that wanted to poke their own eyes out.

BTW, thank you Drew Naymick for taking that redshirt last year!!!

I don't follow college bball but MSU lost 62-38 against Purdue. wow

Wow. Messed up.

I lost 150 alpacas because of MSU tonight...

Tom Izzo's best coaching job yet?

Did anybody see this game? I was at the Wings game. The score looks terrible, what happened?

21 turnovers? Yikes.

Sparty just happens to have been caught in a down year.
meanwhile, UM is in a down "lifetime". I look for The Izzo to turn it around next year with that great recruiting class they have coming in.

Tom Izzo's best coaching job yet?

LOL.

Did anybody see this game? I was at the Wings game. The score looks terrible, what happened?

21 turnovers? Yikes.

Lights out.

(I tried and tried and tried not to go there, but other people who would claim not to do that sort of thing have consistantly done it, so I couldn't help it)

After the debacle the other night DaMaster has them healing up. No game tape of Purdoo as it's been shredded. I've said it all year. These guys are in a battle for 5th. They end up in the upper half of the league it's a job well done. This is about hanging on until the cavalry, Chris, Durrell, Kalin and Tom get here. Meanwhile the bigs need to get mucho minutes and some confidence, DN & Travis will get to know every nuance of each others game in preparation for next year. I look for them to beat a more experienced U-M Tuesday at the Brez but they will be pressed to repeat at Crisler. I kind of hate to say this but I wonder if a run at the NIT doesn't pay more dividends than a one and done in the Dance? Practice! We're talking about practice!

Izzo said that Herzog has been the best big man on the team in practice the last few weeks. So good that he even considered removing his redshirt a month ago because he knew Herzog could help the team. But, he knew that the redshirt was in Herzog's best interest so he didn't.

I said it at the start of the season and I'll say it again, Michigan better beat Michigan State on Tuesday and then again at home. This is the most down team MSU has had in a decade and this is UM's last chance to get some wins against MSU for the next 4 years. 2 wins against MSU would probably get UM in the tourney. MSU on the other hand has a great opportunity. They weren't expected to make the tournament, but a great start now allows them the chance. 2 wins against UM would help them get to 20 wins and lock up a tourney birth.

Despite what I've said about UM and how they should/need to win this, DocTre isn't picking against the Spartans, Tom Izzo, Drew Neitzel, and the Izzone. Keep the domination of Michigan going boys, GO STATE!

Lights out.

(I tried and tried and tried not to go there, but other people who would claim not to do that sort of thing have consistantly done it, so I couldn't help it)

Yo Jethro, were you making a prediction with this post on the MSU-UM game? Or were you giving your thoughts on Michigan's season.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/msu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_action/520937.jpeg
Lights out bitch!

I was referring to how odd it is that you consistantly give the lights out reference to a 40% shooter. The only reason the lights are ever even on is because the dude jacks it up as often as Iverson.
Go ahead and defend the airballs, I'm looking forward to it. He's bailed out multiple performances from the FT line.

I was referring to how odd it is that you consistantly give the lights out reference to a 40% shooter. The only reason the lights are ever even on is because the dude jacks it up as often as Iverson.
Go ahead and defend the airballs, I'm looking forward to it. He's bailed out multiple performances from the FT line.

Woooooooooooooooooow! That shit deserves to be swatted to the stands so bad! Are you serious with that post?! I nearly fell out of my chair when I read it.

First of all, shooting 42% as a guard is pretty good. Did you know that? The only guys shooting in the 50-60% are big men. Second of all, Neitzel is clearly the best shooter in the Big Ten. On top of it, he's doing this scoring with absolutely no help. Without Neitzel, this team has maybe 5 wins.

This is funny, your fellow Wolverine Moodini and I are watching the MSU-UM game and he turns to me and says, "Seriously, he never misses. Every shot he takes, I think it is in. How can you never miss?" Then I get on here and read a post in which you are claiming the guy saves himself from the free throw line. BTW, last time I checked you do have to be able to shoot to make a free throw. Wow, you've reached new lows when you rip Drew Neitzel's shooting/scoring ability.

Jethro, I just checked the NBA scoring leaders shooting percentages. THE TOP 12 SCORERS IN THE NBA HAVE SHOOTING PERCENTAGES IN THE 40'S.

Gilbert Arenas is shooting 41% and has been absolutely annihilating his competition this year. What's next? You gonna claim Agent 0 is saving himself at the line?

I guess I just annihilated that arguement.

Gilbert Arenas guaranteed he would drop 50 on the Blazers and didn't hit double digits.
If Mood said the cat never misses and he was 6 of 15, that's Mood's bad.

You have to shoot to be able to hit FT's? That's part of your argument? So those 70 year old guys that go around hitting 200 straight free throws belong at the NBA All-Star game?
Bro, I could outshoot 35% of the NBA from the line and I have no business on an NBA court.
Keep in mind that I wrote that comment after your boy went 2 for 11.
I'm just saying that to have a nickname like "Light's Out" you should tear it up, not hit more than half your shots exactly one time during the Big Ten season.
Yes, he gets bailed out at the line. 22% of his points come from the free stripe.

Look, he's a better leader than Michigan has. He has a ton of pressure. He's a nice floor general. When he's hot he can put the dagger in the other team's heart. His 3 to make it 47-36 did exactly that.

But Light's Out is absolutely retarded and yet you've repeated it so often I could swear you want to tattoo it on your junk.

By the way, of the TOP 50 scorers in the NBA, Neitzel's FG% is higher than 4 of them, that's it. Arenas, Jamal Crawford, Mike Bibby and Earl Boykins.
You should be incredibly impressed. Nice job annhilating the argument. Now go stand in the mirror and say "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

Gilbert Arenas guaranteed he would drop 50 on the Blazers and didn't hit double digits.
If Mood said the cat never misses and he was 6 of 15, that's Mood's bad.

You have to shoot to be able to hit FT's? That's part of your argument? So those 70 year old guys that go around hitting 200 straight free throws belong at the NBA All-Star game?
Bro, I could outshoot 35% of the NBA from the line and I have no business on an NBA court.
Keep in mind that I wrote that comment after your boy went 2 for 11.
I'm just saying that to have a nickname like "Light's Out" you should tear it up, not hit more than half your shots exactly one time during the Big Ten season.
Yes, he gets bailed out at the line. 22% of his points come from the free stripe.

Look, he's a better leader than Michigan has. He has a ton of pressure. He's a nice floor general. When he's hot he can put the dagger in the other team's heart. His 3 to make it 47-36 did exactly that.

But Light's Out is absolutely retarded and yet you've repeated it so often I could swear you want to tattoo it on your junk.

I don't even know where to begin. Now you are ripping Gilbert Arenas and he's clearly having one of the best seasons in the NBA if not the best.

Then you go on to continue with your "he bails himself out at the line" argument, yet you provide the 22% stat. Dude, if 78% of your points come from the floor, that is alot.

I don't care if 20 of the NBA's Top 50 scorers shoot 1% better from the floor. You ripped him for shooting in the 40s and the Top 12 scorers in the NBA are in the 40s. That's simply retarded.

At the end of the day, Neitzel is still the best shooter in the Big Ten, he's a 1st Team All Big Ten Selection as a Junior, and you'd give your left nut to have him wearing maize and blue. Lights out on this lame attempt to rip a great player.

Watching the Spartans and its halftime. I am having a lot of fun right now!

Dude, Jetho, take the blinders off for a sec. Give it up for Neitzel. Dude can ball. He's 6'1, 170, WHITE, he's the only scorer for State so he gets the opposing team's best defender every night, gets double teamed consistently and puts up about 20 a night in the B10. Props.

Dude, Jetho, take the blinders off for a sec. Give it up for Neitzel. Dude can ball. He's 6'1, 170, WHITE, he's the only scorer for State so he gets the opposing team's best defender every night, gets double teamed consistently and puts up about 20 a night in the B10. Props.

Tipping my hat for the non-biased opinion/props.

If I had to trade places with someone else, I think Neitzel would be on top of my list. White boy w/ crazy game, killin' the B10, tons of flava, and he's rocking Isiah's number...not bad.

Random thought... You think Izzo shows the "300" movie trailer before every big game to get his guys phsyched?

Because every time I watch it I'm ready to kick someones ass... I wonder what it does to the actual Spartans.

That is all.

[/end random thought]

Dr Tre:
I'm guessing the "rocking with flava" will end for Neitzel on senior night at the Brez in a couple years.
You would have to be Canadian, and have really bad hair, But Steve Nash is where it's at for the vicariously living white man nowadays (if you're NBA minded).
As for me, it might be an upgrade if I could even trade places with Dick Cheney's hunting partners.

Random thought... You think Izzo shows the "300" movie trailer before every big game to get his guys phsyched?

Because every time I watch it I'm ready to kick someones ass... I wonder what it does to the actual Spartans.

That is all.

[/end random thought]

It comes out this March. I was thinking the team would probably go see it together. Funny that you mentioned that.

Tom Izzo's best coaching job yet?

Yo Glenn, you want to mock me now? Look who's laughing, Doc Tre.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/slideshows/show_548/10.jpg
"You muthafuckas need to recognize! This the man son!"

Yo Glenn, you want to mock me now? Look who's laughing, Doc Tre.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/slideshows/show_548/10.jpg
"You muthafuckas need to recognize! This the man son!"
Ooooouuuuch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice win for the Midget Of Iron Mountain tonight. I was at The Interlude, trying to get this chick to make out with me (that's what I like to do), and the score flashed up on the screen, and I'm all "Wow, The Izzo pulls out a big win!"
But, the chick didn't end up making out with me. Maybe I should kill all the chicks. Either that or post on the "Post while drunk thread". Fucking Izzo. If State would have lost, I wouldn't have been distracted.
I'd be gettin' my kiss awn right about now.

Nice win for the Midget Of Iron Mountain tonight. I was at The Interlude, trying to get this chick to make out with me (that's what I like to do), and the score flashed up on the screen, and I'm all "Wow, The Izzo pulls out a big win!"
But, the chick didn't end up making out with me. Maybe I should kill all the chicks. Either that or post on the "Post while drunk thread". Fucking Izzo. If State would have lost, I wouldn't have been distracted.
I'd be gettin' my kiss awn right about now.

Damn it Zip with your drunk post. You brought us to the next page, I wanted Glenn to see my post.

Nice win, no doubt.

I'm sure Mateen and Mateen Jr. are very proud.

Announcers during the Duke game last night said that MSU went from a bubble team to a 7 seed with the Wisconsin win. YO!

Very entertaining game against Wisconsin today. Regardless of the fact that the Badgers won, any impartial fans across the country that saw this back-and-forth contest, especially in the 2nd half, must have been into it.

Apparently State was a lock after beating the Badgers the first time. My guess is they still need to win at least one in the Big Ten tourney, which shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise, a 3 game losing streak might do them in.

But after watching today, I have to take my Neitzel comments back more and more. If he has a decent supporting cast, he's exactly the kind of guy you want to see during March Madness. (nickname still retarded, player not)

State is a lock. 1st win in the BT tourney will help too.

Great game yesterday which was absolutely ruined like 90% of the BT contests nowadays by officiating. MSU could have won despite the officiating, however I can hardly take it anymore.

Raymar got nearly no court time, Walton was in ridiculous foul trouble, and it was lopsided. Raymar and Walton both had 4 fouls with 13 minutes still left in the game. And the worst part is that these jackass officials are not one bit consistent. The entire game is called ticky tacky, then the last minute gets here.

State up 1, 1 minute to go, Wisconsin big man throws a killer elbow right to the face of Naymick with the ball in his hands, official is standing right in front of the play and sees it- NO CALL!!!!!!!! They showed the replay, they showed the official talking to Naymick, WHY THE HELL IS THAT NOT A FOUL? Because MSU was on the road? So blatant I can't even stand it. I could see if the official didn't see it, but I thought he was going to knock Naymick over with the elbow it was so bad and the replay shows the official standing right there and then consoling Naymick afterwards. garbage

MSU had their chance to win, but that was because they played so well despite the officiating.

State is a lock. 1st win in the BT tourney will help too.

Great game yesterday which was absolutely ruined like 90% of the BT contests nowadays by officiating. MSU could have won despite the officiating, however I can hardly take it anymore.

Raymar got nearly no court time, Walton was in ridiculous foul trouble, and it was lopsided. Raymar and Walton both had 4 fouls with 13 minutes still left in the game. And the worst part is that these jackass officials are not one bit consistent. The entire game is called ticky tacky, then the last minute gets here.

State up 1, 1 minute to go, Wisconsin big man throws a killer elbow right to the face of Naymick with the ball in his hands, official is standing right in front of the play and sees it- NO CALL!!!!!!!! They showed the replay, they showed the official talking to Naymick, WHY THE HELL IS THAT NOT A FOUL? Because MSU was on the road? So blatant I can't even stand it. I could see if the official didn't see it, but I thought he was going to knock Naymick over with the elbow it was so bad and the replay shows the official standing right there and then consoling Naymick afterwards. garbage

MSU had their chance to win, but that was because they played so well despite the officiating.

I'm over the officiating. Serves no purpose. The handwriting was on the wall with Cheezitz going to the bonus at the 12 minute mark of the second half. They drop 17/23 from the line and MSU 5/10? I've seen two different stats. Raymar, 5 fouls in 8 minutes? Uh, sure. Fact is that MSU had plenty of chances. Naymick doesn't flush and Suton misses at least a couple of bunnies. They fanned and they lost. Pretty good effort for sure. Hopefully they dispose of NW and get the rubber match on a neutral floor. Should prove interesting.

That's absolutely unreal. 23 free throws to 10 and Raymar fouls out in 8 minutes. I'm not over the officiating because it needs to be corrected. It should be a fair game with equal opportunity no matter where it is played.

I hate bitching about calls and outside factors when it comes to my team losing. Everyone knows I give the UMers all kinds of shit for that. But something needs to be done. Sure, MSU had all kinds of opportunities to win despite the officiating, but that was because they played so well.

They shouldn't have to overcome the obstacle of officiating.

That's absolutely unreal. 23 free throws to 10 and Raymar fouls out in 8 minutes. I'm not over the officiating because it needs to be corrected. It should be a fair game with equal opportunity no matter where it is played.

I hate bitching about calls and outside factors when it comes to my team losing. Everyone knows I give the UMers all kinds of shit for that. But something needs to be done. Sure, MSU had all kinds of opportunities to win despite the officiating, but that was because they played so well.

They shouldn't have to overcome the obstacle of officiating.
One U-M fan posted stats from a U-M-Indiana game some years ago in Bloomington where Knights boys shot 50+ free throws to U-M's 12. There certainly is precedent for home cooking in the Big 10. Everone smells it. What can be, will be, done?

Man, officiating killed basketball for me YEARS ago. To me, the officials have too much direct control over the game. Hockey and Football are sports that, like basketball, a foul or penalty can be called just about every 4 seconds or on every play. Somehow, football and hickey refs seem to be able to restrain themselves and let the players dictate the outcome (for the most part. You can certainly argue with the timing of some calls).
Basketball, though, has become a game of Free Throw Shooting contests. Players "foul out", and mostly on ticky tack or very subjective calls.
The "block" or "charge" is ridiculous. The supposed defensive "Principle of Verticality"? Give me a fucking break.
I've watched games where players don't even sweat, the action is so broken up.
And don't tell me these guys can't be bought off, especially if they have a gambling problem, and don't tell me a guy couldn't pull some shady reffing off to win himself a few bucks either.

Man, officiating killed basketball for me YEARS ago. To me, the officials have too much direct control over the game. Hockey and Football are sports that, like basketball, a foul or penalty can be called just about every 4 seconds or on every play. Somehow, football and hickey refs seem to be able to restrain themselves and let the players dictate the outcome (for the most part. You can certainly argue with the timing of some calls).
Basketball, though, has become a game of Free Throw Shooting contests. Players "foul out", and mostly on ticky tack or very subjective calls.
The "block" or "charge" is ridiculous. The supposed defensive "Principle of Verticality"? Give me a fucking break.
I've watched games where players don't even sweat, the action is so broken up.
And don't tell me these guys can't be bought off, especially if they have a gambling problem, and don't tell me a guy couldn't pull some shady reffing off to win himself a few bucks either.

I hate to admit it because basketball is my life, but you are right. "The rule of verticality" is a joke. I think I question an official every single tues and friday on that rule. It is never followed. The charging call is out of control. At one point during the MSU-Wic. game they showed a stat, it was MSU-4 offensive fouls Wisc.-3. They are freaking showing how many offensive fouls are called 10 minutes into the game! You might be lucky if you saw two offensive fouls back in the day. Now, every other time down the court some guy is flopping and the official is calling it. You used to have to truly knock the guy to the ground with lowering your shoulder for it to be called. I can't even stand it. I'm pissed right now writing about it. I could write a book bitching about this shit.

Zip has long bitched about the inconsistencies of hoop reffing and how it has driven him to watching "Gilligan's Island" reruns instead. I used to think he was kidding. Now I know better and I'm starting to understand why. How about calling a foul for "the flop?" I'm with he and Dre on this. I watch because I'm a fucking hoops junkie. I've never "not" watched but it is very arggravating. It is incredible how in a game that is being decided by 6-8 points how 55 seconds can easily last 15 minutes. 20 if you have to take a squirt.

I'm glad to see that I'm winning more and more people over to my Cult Of Ref Hating. Soon, there will be legions of us. And what will we be doing while David Stern and Miles Brand wonder why no one is watching anymore?
We'll all be singing Karaoke, watching Gilligan's Island, and plotting an evil takeover of Ann Arbor.

LMAO @ the brown score!!!! hahahaahahhahahahaahahahahahaha


hahaahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Thank god I dont have to hear the BS about MSU hoops this year

Whoops