What's the status of the program in the minds of fans and opponents? I have to believe it's on the rise, with the team being two wins away from matching their Big Ten win total from last season, but how much so?

What would it take for Amaker to keep/lose his job?

Would it be better for Michigan to hang on to Amaker or try to find someone else?

What steps does the team need to make this year and in subsequent years in order to become a legit program?

First of all, I think Amaker needs to get his team to win at least 7 Big Ten games this year. They have 4 games left against unranked teams and 10 against teams currently ranked. They need to beat at least one ranked team. But they won't be legit until they beat a top 10.
I think Amaker is the best fit for them right now. But once they reach the point that they can make the tourney consistantly, they'll need an upgrade - a true coach.

They need a win this saturday and next wednesday...after that happens, then I will tell you what I think.

I need to see them play THEIR rival

As you know, I've criticized Tommy Amaker since the day he stepped into Ann Arbor. His reputation is a recruiter that can't coach. Therefore, in my opinion they need somebody else before they can become a good program.

But, it's not like Michigan can fire him and just go grab a great coach. A great coach isn't going to jump at the chance to go to Michigan, play second fiddle on campus to Football and then play second fiddle to Michigan State within the sport. So they are kindof stuck.

Michigan MUST make the NCAA tourney this year with a veteran team. They just have to. I personally don't think it is going to happen though. In order to make it, they must win every game they are supposed to win and then pull off two upsets. They need to upset MSU, Illinois, Indiana, or Wisconsin. They need to grab two wins from those teams. If they do that, the fans will buzz a little, the Detroit media will buzz, and then you can get the program going in the right direction.

I truly believe that the growth process starts with the head coach though and Amaker has never convinced me he's capable. Experience is on their side though, this is the year. It has to be.

with the cupcake non conference schedule michigan had, they can probably go .500 in the big ten and make the tourney. I think they make it, but get beat in the first round.

I think if they got in, they'd win their first game. They would be so hype after making it for the first time in years that it would carry them. That is "IF" they get in.

For me Michigan just need to get into the dance. See what happens after that.

UM only played second fiddle to MSU in basketball because of that fucker Martin, otherwise UM was there if not better in B-Ball than MSU for most of the 80's and early 90's. i dont know much about UM or MSU prior to that except for Magic and Cazzie.


Art

UM only played second fiddle to MSU in basketball because of that fucker Martin, otherwise UM was there if not better in B-Ball than MSU for most of the 80's and early 90's. i dont know much about UM or MSU prior to that except for Magic and Cazzie.


Yeah, you are right. Martin is the lone reason for MSU's dominance. It has nothing to do with Tom Izzo, the Flintstones, our 4 Final Fours, or our National Championship.

Had UM not cheated everybody would have went to UM, they would have been the best program in the world, and they would have continued their path toward world domination.

If ya can't beat em, buy em!

Did I say anything there was not true? If you can be objective for a second you would see what I said was true. I am not saying MSU could not or would not be right wher they are, but the probation of UM played a huge part in the swinging of B-ball power to MSU, which might have already been swinging that way, but the probation just made it happen a lot faster if it would have happened at all.

Having Izzo has not hurt. He has been the best B-Ball coach in michigan that any team might have ever had.

Joe Crawford, Malik Hariston and Al Hoford, 2 of the 3 would have been at Michigan if not for the probation. It hurt UM with area coaches and UM is still paying for it.

I will talk to some guys who cover hoops and see what they have to say about the two sides and will post them for ya.


Art

Yeah Tre, way to take the extreme view. Nobody said State would suck, but Michigan was enjoying their time in the sun. Yes, State was good with guys like Steve Smith, Shawn Respert, Eric Snow - whoever you want back in the day.
But even your boy Mateen MIGHT have been a Wolverine had Martin not been a factor in the program being corrupt.
Truth is, you never know. Yet, the looming NCAA penalties hurt the program for years even before they actually came down. You can't blame Michigan fans for that. You can't blame a lot of people for that. You can probably spread it out to about 50 people and their families that knew what was happening and allowed it to because of their own greed.

Bottom line: it certainly DIDN'T HURT State.

But even your boy Mateen MIGHT have been a Wolverine had Martin not been a factor in the program being corrupt.

Are you fucking kidding me? I followed Mateen's recruitment very closely. Obviously you didn't. Mateen was a State lock from the second that his teammate Antonio Smith committed to State.

You guys talk about being objective. Why don't you try it? How was Michigan doing just before all the scandal stuff came out? HORRIBLE. There were rumblings when they had the decent Traylor team. But the stuff came out when Michigan already sucked. I honestly don't even care though. This is way too old and ridiculous.

You guys talk about being objective. Why don't you try it? How was Michigan doing just before all the scandal stuff came out? HORRIBLE. Their were rumblings when they had the decent Traylor team. But the stuff came out when Michigan already sucked. I honestly don't even care though. This is way too old and ridiculous.

Uhhh.....Michigan won the Big Ten Tournament and went to the NCAA's right before it all went down. There were whispers and Steve Fisher was fired before the '98 season and Brian Ellerbee led his players to a 24-8 record and a #12 national ranking before the program was ran into the ground by him and NCAA sanctions.

MSU had already won the BT Title and started to take over in recruiting long before everything was revealed.

But, even if the paying players stuff did kill their program, I really don't care. If Michigan's program was run into the ground because they cheated, then it is fitting.

It sucks because one, maybe two men cheated and I think it's really gay to punish the university and coaches and players that arrived long after the scandal. But that's done with, now we are headed in the right direction. Let's move on....

This season I think Michigan has a Hurculean task on their hands if they want to make the NCAA tournament. The Big Ten is as good as I ever remember it being and they're going to need some Big wins if they hope to get in. Here's how I see it playing out.

@ Minnesota-L
vs. Michigan St.-W
vs. Wisconsin-W
@ Penn St-W
@ Iowa-L
vs. Ohio St.-W
@ Purdue-W
vs. Minnesota-W
@ Michigan St.-L
vs. Illinois-L
@ Ohio St.-L
vs. Indiana-L

That puts us at 8-8 in the Big Ten, and 18-9 overall and right on the NCAA bubble. It's going to be interesting down the stretch, but I think if we can catch a couple of breaks along the way, we can get in.

I'm sorry brotha, but if you think Michigan is going to beat Michigan State, then Wisconsin, and follow it up with a win against Ohio State...you are dillusional.

I think you are puffin' on that pipe I had this past fall.

I'm sorry brotha, but if you think Michigan is going to beat Michigan State, then Wisconsin, and follow it up with a win against Ohio State...you are dillusional.

I think you are puffin' on that pipe I had this past fall. [smilie=arnold.gif]
Whatchu talkin' about Tre?

Tre, get ready to see a lot of Arnold from me in response to your posts. All 3 of those games are at home and I'm sticking by my pick for M to beat MSU at Crisler this year and Wisconsin and Ohio State are definitely beatable...especially on the road.

Ok, this statement is a bit random, and it's not whining because I've already accepted the punishment that Michigan faced, and all the punishment that was unofficial as well.

But here's the BS of NCAA punishment. Steve Fischer was dirty as they come in this deal, and the fact that he was coaching with no punishment during Michigan's penalty is crap. Screwing kids that did nothing while the players and coaches that were involved have no recourse. That's crap.

Ok, this statement is a bit random, and it's not whining because I've already accepted the punishment that Michigan faced, and all the punishment that was unofficial as well.

But here's the BS of NCAA punishment. Steve Fischer was dirty as they come in this deal, and the fact that he was coaching with no punishment during Michigan's penalty is crap. Screwing kids that did nothing while the players and coaches that were involved have no recourse. That's crap.

[smilie=applause.gi: Agreed. NCAA policy needs to be changed. Punish the guilty coaches and players, not the innocents.

I'm not saying Michigan should have gone unpunished Mood. They do need to accept that, while nobody who was guilty was left their, it still happened in their house. It's like buying a house where a murder was committed. You can't complain if you get creeped out and can't sleep at night - you knew it might be creepy when you bought it.
But you still have to put the murderer in jail, don't you? And in this case, Martin wasn't the only one with dirty hands.

Looked pretty good tonight...pretty damn good. MSU is really high off their win against Iowa...I think the blowout might have hurt them a little coming into ann arbor. one plus for them...I got the sense that the MSU players actually respected this UM basketball team for the first time in a few years...should be a good one.

Looked pretty good tonight...pretty damn good. MSU is really high off their win against Iowa...I think the blowout might have hurt them a little coming into ann arbor. one plus for them...I got the sense that the MSU players actually respected this UM basketball team for the first time in a few years...should be a good one.

Muhme, before the game on Wednesday give me your thoughts or hopes for Sims. I think he's a waste and should be thrown on the bench but he's played decently against Davis in the past. Does this kid show on Wed. night or does he only play 14 minutes like this past Saturday?

Not that it'll matter, just curious. [smilie=grin.gif]

I really dislike Sims. He cant pass, makes too many turnovers and is too soft.

If Brown had half Sims talent, Brown would be all Big Ten.

I dislike Hunter and Petways games too. They are athletic, but Hunter travels every time he is up high and tries to drive and Petway thinks he has game, but has an ugly shot.

I do like Hunter over Sims.

I think the biggest problem UM bigs have, is that they have stone hands.

I want UM to win, but if Harris and Horton have an off game, they will get blow out, especially with Lester probably going to give little production.

Art

Courtney Sims is a bitch. He's talented, but does not have much athletecism (if that's possible). He's slow and cannot jump very high. With that said, he's a solid shotblocker and has a nice touch around the basket. He'll dominate vs. Jick State, but when U-M plays a decent opponent he pulls a turtle and plays like his female name suggests.

[smilie=ownagebox.g:
The big boys vs. Courtney.

I don't know. Sims plays like Paul Davis used to. Somehow Davis broke through. I wish Sims would. Of course, Davis was more hyped than Sims. Sims is doing about as well as many recruiting guru's thought. I was just hoping he was a diamond in the rough.

Courtney had 0 vs. Minnesota. That's inexcusable. [smilie=joker.gif]

Did anybody see the Syracuse-Pitt game on ESPN? At halftime, Digger Phelps (and his tielighter) picked Michigan as a possible sleeper team for the Final Four! [smilie=jaw-droppin: Yeah, that's right, the Michigan Wolverines.

I think that's a bit much, but a comment like that from Digger is definitely cool. [smilie=groove.gif]

http://www.cjonline.com/photos/galleries/013005_kubb/images/01.jpg
"Laugh if you want, but Michigan could be a sleeper team to make the Final Four."

"Laugh if you want, but Michigan could be a sleeper team to make the Final Four."

Oh I'll laugh, don't you worry about that. [smilie=hahaha.gif]

Digger is off his game a bit. I think a team has to have proven that they're more than just on the bubble to even make the tourney before they can be a sleeper for the Final Four. That being said, they've proven they can PLAY WITH anyone they've played against so far. It's not a stretch to put UCLA or Illinois in the Elite 8 or Final Four. Michigan can hang with them, they just don't have the instinct to finish those games yet.

At halftime, Digger Phelps (and his tielighter) picked Michigan as a possible sleeper team for the Final Four! Yeah, that's right, the Michigan Wolverines.


HAHAHAHAHA....Wow! The team hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament in like a decade, they are a bubble team in the BT, and Digger calls them a FF sleeper!? Hilarious!

I'll put that in my "OJ Mayo to Michigan?" File. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

At halftime, Digger Phelps (and his tielighter) picked Michigan as a possible sleeper team for the Final Four! Yeah, that's right, the Michigan Wolverines.


HAHAHAHAHA....Wow! The team hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament in like a decade, they are a bubble team in the BT, and Digger calls them a FF sleeper!? Hilarious!

I'll put that in my "OJ Mayo to Michigan?" File. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

I knew the Sparties would react this way. But whose opinion do you respect more? An NCAA Division I coach (Notre Dame) who ended UCLA's 88 game winning streak or 2 cats named SpartyNick and DrTre11 on a message board? [smilie=shrug smile:

By the way, I don't think Michigan is a Final Four team, but I agree with Digger that Michigan can play with almost anyone. Maybe even the "elite" Michigan State Spartans? We'll see tomorrow night.

I knew the Sparties would react this way. But whose opinion do you respect more? An NCAA Division I coach (Notre Dame) who ended UCLA's 88 game winning streak or 2 cats named SpartyNick and DrTre11 on a message board? [smilie=shrug smile:

By the way, I don't think Michigan is a Final Four team, but I agree with Digger that Michigan can play with almost anyone. Maybe even the "elite" Michigan State Spartans? We'll see tomorrow night.

The Wolverine basketball program could get a verbal handjob (like this sleeper pick by Digger) from the janitor @ Crisler and they would think it's news. Whether Michigan wins or not tomorrow, Digger Phelps shitting his pants and embarrassing himself with these comments does not mean Michigan is ready for the tourney.

Looked pretty good tonight...pretty damn good. MSU is really high off their win against Iowa...I think the blowout might have hurt them a little coming into ann arbor. one plus for them...I got the sense that the MSU players actually respected this UM basketball team for the first time in a few years...should be a good one.

Muhme, before the game on Wednesday give me your thoughts or hopes for Sims. I think he's a waste and should be thrown on the bench but he's played decently against Davis in the past. Does this kid show on Wed. night or does he only play 14 minutes like this past Saturday?

Not that it'll matter, just curious. [smilie=grin.gif]

I dont expect much from Sims... I would love to see 15 8 3 from him. I am looking for Brown to have a big game. He needs to set the tone if he is put on Davis.

I am looking for Brown to have a big game. He needs to set the tone if he is put on Davis.

I don't think that would be a good move Muhme. I think Davis would eat Brown alive and get him in foul trouble.

I'd like to see a mix of Sims and Petway on Davis. Sims can bother Davis with his length and Petway is much more athletic and quick than Davis. But Petway might be flyswatting at every Davis pumpfake.

Sims is the only guy that should be on Davis. Petway is too undisciplined and not strong enough. Brown doesn't have the length, Davis would shoot over him. Sims MUST have a good game in order for this to be a game. He has played well against State in the past. I'm sure he'll show up tonight.

He'll go for 15 and 8

Looks like you were wrong about Sims having to have a big game Tre. He was horrible at best, Dion Harris was 1-11 from the field, and Abram didn't go.........and Michigan won. Yeah, it doesn't make sense but it happened. That's why we watch. You've got to love the unpredictable nature of sports sometimes, and yet you also have to hate it (like my fantasy team this year).

Looks like you were wrong about Sims having to have a big game Tre. He was horrible at best, Dion Harris was 1-11 from the field, and Abram didn't go.........and Michigan won. Yeah, it doesn't make sense but it happened. That's why we watch. You've got to love the unpredictable nature of sports sometimes, and yet you also have to hate it (like my fantasy team this year).

Wow Jethro, when you put it that way, its unbelievable that we still won the game. Horton became the player we all thought he would be as a freshman and it was a total team effort especially on the defensive end. Great win Tommy and the boys! [smilie=applause.gi: Let's keep the momentum rolling and beat the Badgers on Saturday.

GO BLUE!

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/AAS10401260300.jpg http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/AAS10701260412.jpg
2 Spartan killers.

I am looking for Brown to have a big game. He needs to set the tone if he is put on Davis.

I don't think that would be a good move Muhme. I think Davis would eat Brown alive and get him in foul trouble.

[smilie=applause.gi:

nice call tre...

E. Beverly combo guard from Illinois has dropped Illinois and Michigan is going up against St. John's and Virginia as of right now for him.

he is a 2006 recruit. he is a huge need for UM. He average 36 points a game for the #2 team in Illinois.


Art

That's why you play to win the game!

E. Beverly combo guard from Illinois has dropped Illinois and Michigan is going up against St. John's and Virginia as of right now for him.

he is a 2006 recruit. he is a huge need for UM. He average 36 points a game for the #2 team in Illinois.


Art

Are you talking about Patrick Beverly? If so, he's a 3 star from the burbs of Chicago. His scout.com profile lists 10 teams and Michigan isn't one of them. I'm not questioning your info, Art, it just seems they would get that updated by now if it's the case.
Rivals has a list of 13 with no leaders, though Michigan is listed there.
Kid is 6'2", 175.

Yeah Patrick and he was a commit to Toledo at one point, but that was before he blew up.

Trust me that Michigan is in his top 5. I am searching for the articles now. I find one for ya before too long.

BTW He is the real deal. Once scout updates there rankings, Patrick will fly up to at least a 4.

Art

Illinois lost out on the state's top unsigned recruit Wednesday, according to his coach, Marshall's Lamont Bryant, who said Patrick Beverley had dropped the Illini from his final list of schools.

"I'm not happy with the way Illinois has been recruiting him," Bryant said of his star player. "I met with Patrick earlier in the week, and he is going to choose from among the schools who have made offers."

Beverley, however, has indicated to Bryant he still considers the Illini in the mix along with Indiana, Michigan, Virginia and St. John's--if they make an offer. The 6-foot-2-inch guard's stock has skyrocketed while he has averaged 36 points, seven rebounds, six assists and five steals for No. 2 Marshall.

One problem apparently is that Illinois coach Bruce Weber is holding off on making a scholarship offer until the Illini can determine if Beverley is an academic qualifier. It has been a month since the school first requested a copy of his transcript. Beverley said in late December that he has met NCAA academic criteria for eligibility.

In addition, the Illini want Beverley to visit in hopes of getting to know him better and to see how he gets along with Brian Randle, Jamar Smith, Shaun Pruitt and other potential teammates.

"Did Illinois take that long to make offers to other recruits?" Bryant said. "You can tell coach Weber we are no longer interested in Illinois."

Although there was some question whether Virginia, coached by former DePaul coach Dave Leitao, had used up its allotment of scholarships, Cavaliers assistant coach Rob Lanier confirmed there is one available for Beverley.

Last month Beverley said Illinois was his favorite school because of the way Weber utilizes his guards. Though Bryant advised him Sunday to drop Illinois from contention and concentrate on the schools that had made offers, Beverley insisted Illinois remains on the list.

Over the summer, Beverley made an oral commitment to Toledo but changed his mind in hopes of landing with a bigger program. Since then--in addition to his final choices--Michigan State, Washington, Washington State and Purdue also reportedly had made offers.


This is from the Chicago Tribune.

The schools at the bottoms are teams that have offered, not necessary in the mix.


Art

After Digger saying "Michigan is a sleeper team for the Final Four", Dick Vitale just said that Michigan is the most underrated team in the country on SportsCenter! [smilie=yourock.gif]

We are getting some major love playas!

http://espn.go.com/media/ncb/2002/0331/photo/020331dv1a.jpg
Two of Michigan's biggest fanboys!

Illinois lost out on the state's top unsigned recruit Wednesday, according to his coach, Marshall's Lamont Bryant, who said Patrick Beverley had dropped the Illini from his final list of schools.

"I'm not happy with the way Illinois has been recruiting him," Bryant said of his star player. "I met with Patrick earlier in the week, and he is going to choose from among the schools who have made offers."

Beverley, however, has indicated to Bryant he still considers the Illini in the mix along with Indiana, Michigan, Virginia and St. John's--if they make an offer. The 6-foot-2-inch guard's stock has skyrocketed while he has averaged 36 points, seven rebounds, six assists and five steals for No. 2 Marshall.

One problem apparently is that Illinois coach Bruce Weber is holding off on making a scholarship offer until the Illini can determine if Beverley is an academic qualifier. It has been a month since the school first requested a copy of his transcript. Beverley said in late December that he has met NCAA academic criteria for eligibility.

In addition, the Illini want Beverley to visit in hopes of getting to know him better and to see how he gets along with Brian Randle, Jamar Smith, Shaun Pruitt and other potential teammates.

"Did Illinois take that long to make offers to other recruits?" Bryant said. "You can tell coach Weber we are no longer interested in Illinois."

Although there was some question whether Virginia, coached by former DePaul coach Dave Leitao, had used up its allotment of scholarships, Cavaliers assistant coach Rob Lanier confirmed there is one available for Beverley.

Last month Beverley said Illinois was his favorite school because of the way Weber utilizes his guards. Though Bryant advised him Sunday to drop Illinois from contention and concentrate on the schools that had made offers, Beverley insisted Illinois remains on the list.

Over the summer, Beverley made an oral commitment to Toledo but changed his mind in hopes of landing with a bigger program. Since then--in addition to his final choices--Michigan State, Washington, Washington State and Purdue also reportedly had made offers.


This is from the Chicago Tribune.

The schools at the bottoms are teams that have offered, not necessary in the mix.


Art

But doesn't Michigan have enough shooting guards on the team and in the pipeline?

Tommy needs to recruit a point guard and big men, not more shooters and wings.

More meat and potatoes...less BW3's. [smilie=a.gif]

Tre and other Sparties have questioned Tommy Amaker's ability to develop players. Well, listen to what your golden boy Tom Izzo had to say:

On Daniel Horton: "You know what? I think Daniel Horton's having an incredible senior year. I give him a lot of credit. I think he's under control more, passing the ball a lot better. I don't think he's forcing shots. I think Daniel Horton, from all the film I've watched, deserves a ton of credit for maybe changing his game and maybe realizing…I thought at times he made some bad plays other years and forced some shots. I hardly see him forcing a shot any more. I think he did a heck of a job. Tommy should be commended for getting him like he is."

But doesn't Michigan have enough shooting guards on the team and in the pipeline?

Tommy needs to recruit a point guard and big men, not more shooters and wings.

More meat and potatoes...less BW3's. [smilie=a.gif]

While all of yours are 5 star guys, your 2007 class doesn't really put you in position to criticize Tommy for recruiting a bunch of guards.

Who are these SG in the pipeline?

Morris is a 2/3. Can do a little 1 also.

Legion is a 2/3.

Wright is a 3/4.

Sims is a 3.

After Horton leaves, that means we got Smith at the 1 and Harris at the 2, no true depth. Beverly could give them the depth at the 1/2 that they really need.

They also could use a Bennett if he decides to come.


Art

While all of yours are 5 star guys, your 2007 class doesn't really put you in position to criticize Tommy for recruiting a bunch of guards.

Umm excuse me?

First of all, this is a Michigan basketball thread but since you broached the topic... when that 2007 class arrives:

MSU will have three legit PG's (Neitzel, Walton and Lucas),

And five legit big men (Gray, Ibok, Suton, Herzog, Naymick) - six if you include Morgan who, like DeShawn, will be able to play the PF position.

So what are you talking about? Izzo has perfect balance in his recruiting, unlike Amaker.

While all of yours are 5 star guys, your 2007 class doesn't really put you in position to criticize Tommy for recruiting a bunch of guards.

Umm excuse me?

First of all, this is a Michigan basketball thread but since you broached the topic... when that 2007 class arrives:

MSU will have three legit PG's (Neitzel, Walton and Lucas),

And five legit big men (Gray, Ibok, Suton, Herzog, Naymick) - six if you include Morgan who, like DeShawn, will be able to play the PF position.

So what are you talking about? Izzo has perfect balance in his recruiting, unlike Amaker.

lol...another MSU fan that has not seen Herzog play, lol

Who are these SG in the pipeline?

Morris is a 2/3. Can do a little 1 also.

I see you've bought into the OTF hype. Morris will not be able to "do a little 1". K'Len is less of a PG than Dion Harris. He should be a nice player, but he's a straight 2.


Legion is a 2/3.

Alex is a 3 in name alone as the positions have become essentially identical. Shannon Brown and Mo Ager are both shooting guards regardless of the position you might suggest they play. Fact is, a lot of teams nowadays are starting two shooting guards.


Wright is a 3/4.

Sims is a 3.

You're exactly right, they're both wings which is what I said Tommy is recruiting too many of. K'Len and Legion are both wings, Wright and Sims are both wings. Ron Coleman is a wing. Jevohn Shepherd is a wing. Hell even Kendrick Price is a wing.

My question remains, when the 2007 class arrives, who are the PG's and posts?

PG- Jerrett Smight, and ?

Posts- Is there going to be anyone on the roster over 6'9?

lol...another MSU fan that has not seen Herzog play, lol

Speak for yourself. I've seen Flint Powers play twice. There are some in the MSU recruiting circle who record the games and you can purchase them for a small price. (I still have on video, Paul Davis' Rochester team going up against Matt Trannon and Flint Northern)

Offensively, Big Tom is not Paul Davis by any stretch but he's not ranked #58 because of a LACK of talent and potential. You don't get triple doubles in high school because you suck. And his isn't a Drew Naymick situation where he's playing low Class C ball against weak northern west-side competition. FLINT Powers is a top 3 team in Class B and no one would suggest that they're playing an easy schedule.

Fortunately because of post depth, MSU will have the luxury of redshirting Tom if he and they so choose.

Hell Bennett is only ranked #45 RSCI and is in the 70's and 80's by a couple of reputable services yet Wolverine 'niks are convinced that he is their "answer" in the post if Tommy is able to reel him in.

Self-delusion is a funny and convenient thing. [smilie=antlers.gif]

So you have seen Morris play how much? I am getting this info from people who have seen K'Len play multiple times. If they think he can play a little 1.


Art

I have seen Herzog play numerous times...lol. It is apparent you have not.

I have seen Herzog play numerous times...lol. It is apparent you have not.

And please pray tell, explain to me how it is apparent that I have not seen the kid play. Because I insinuated that he might be redshirted? Because I intimated that he's more of a defensive talent?

Humor me s'il vous plait.

Because I intimated that he's more of a defensive talent?

Humor me s'il vous plait.

[smilie=applause.gi:

Because I intimated that he's more of a defensive talent?

Humor me s'il vous plait.

[smilie=applause.gi:

Clapping isn't humoring me. [smilie=army.gif]

Everyone who follows recruiting knows that Herzog is more developed defensively than offensively. You really don't even have to go see the kid play to know that. That was your big bit of inside knowledge on the kid's game? [smilie=detective.g:

I have seen Herzog play numerous times...lol. It is apparent you have not.

He can't be much worse than Sims.

I hate to keep piling on Tre, but I was reading back through these threads and they need to be recognized.


As you know, I've criticized Tommy Amaker since the day he stepped into Ann Arbor. His reputation is a recruiter that can't coach. Therefore, in my opinion they need somebody else before they can become a good program.

But, it's not like Michigan can fire him and just go grab a great coach. A great coach isn't going to jump at the chance to go to Michigan, play second fiddle on campus to Football and then play second fiddle to Michigan State within the sport. So they are kindof stuck.

[smilie=donthate.gi: After beating the #12 "ELITE" Michigan State Spartans and the Big Ten leading #21 Wisconsin Badgers (without Lester Abram) in the same week, Michigan will be ranked in the top 25 and will be in first place in the Big Ten. [smilie=yourock.gif] Are we still "stuck" as a bad program playing second fiddle to anyone?


Michigan MUST make the NCAA tourney this year with a veteran team. They just have to. I personally don't think it is going to happen though. In order to make it, they must win every game they are supposed to win and then pull off two upsets. They need to upset MSU, Illinois, Indiana, or Wisconsin. They need to grab two wins from those teams. I truly believe that the growth process starts with the head coach though and Amaker has never convinced me he's capable.

Do you still think we're not going to make the tourney and Amaker is not capable?


I'm sorry brotha, but if you think Michigan is going to beat Michigan State, then Wisconsin, and follow it up with a win against Ohio State...you are dillusional.
2 down......1 to go. [smilie=strong.gif]

This team is playing at a very high level right now. I think it all started with their second half play at Assembly Hall @ Illinois. They came back and played the Illini down to the wire on the road. Ever since that second half began, they're much more confident and the think they can beat anyone in the country and they are. They are a deep, talented team especially on the front line. Sims (when he shows up), Brown, Hunter, and Petway give them strong, physical, and athletic play up front. Horton and Harris are great guards who can penetrate, hit the outside shot, and both hit 90% of their free throws, so they can be counted on down the stretch. Also Abram, Michigan's best wing scorer and defender should be back very soon giving them another boost. Ron Coleman and Jerret Smith have also stepped up big time. Coleman plays great D (see MSU game) and Smith is an excellent passer.

This is the best things have been for the hoop squad in AA in some time. [smilie=2thumbsup.g: How far can they go? Who knows? [smilie=shrug smile:

I think the recent play has to be getting into the heads of some recruits. Apparently Josh Southern, who hasn't had Michigan on his list for a while, is starting to feel them a bit. The team would need to make a lot more progress before we would be in the running for sure, but that's the way we're heading. I doubt we'll ever get Dar's attention, but it seems that on the floor the team is doing all it can. I don't care if other teams consider it a game, the standings are all that matters. And we could have a 40 free throw difference in every game and it would just tell recruits to come to Michigan where you can shoot a lot of free throws, and I would be just fine with that.

By the way, I want to be objective here in looking at the Wolverines and not just go "Spartan Comet" with my thoughts. It's not going to be easy at all for this squad looking ahead. In the final 9 games left, only one is against an unranked team at home. The rest are all road games and/or ranked opponents. We certainly aren't out of the woods.

Gotta hand it to the Wolverines they are really playing well. Two quality wins and now tied for first in the Big Ten. They should be ranked next week.

I think they end up ranked 17-18, but like Jethro says, the schedule doesn't get any easier.

Michigan is ranked #20 and got a committment from Kelvin Grady today. Not really a Daniel Horton point guard, more of a Jerrett Smith point guard, but that just means more shots for DeShawn and Alex.

Michigan is ranked #20 and got a committment from Kelvin Grady today. Not really a Daniel Horton point guard, more of a Jerrett Smith point guard, but that just means more shots for DeShawn and Alex.

Please tell the Wolverines (and the few interested Spartans) in the classroom that Grady took a football scholarship and not a basketball one?!?! [smilie=anxious.gif] If Tommy got Kelvin to come to Michigan on a football scholarship and play both sports...that would be considered a minor coups.

BBall Scholly...

BBall Scholly...

Well the team needs point guards in a serious way, so ya gotta do what ya gotta do. But from a Michigan standpoint, you just wish that Amaker could parlay this season's success into some more promising prospects...like Beverley.

Because by all accounts, even though the position he plays is a major team need, Grady is even more risky of a PG prospect than Jerret Smith.

Grady is playing BBall his first year and will be on schollie. After that he will play football and Bball and go on a FBall schollie.


Art

Does everything a point guard should. Gets into the lane with ease, has an improving jumper, is a very good defender, and handles the pill like he owns it. A pass first/shoot second FLOOR GENERAL. Extremely fast with or without the rock in his hands. Stood out as one of the top point guards at the Reebok ABCD camp.. Gets it done on the football field as well and doesn't back down from anyone on the court. Has a scholarship
offer on the table fromall of the in-state MAC schools Xavier. San Diego State has also been in this fall. Regardin Michigan Grady said, "Scholarship wise… no, we haven't really talked about it. But I can tell that they have made it really obvious that they would really like me at their school. I am really interested in going there. It's just a matter of time with me getting stronger and working on my game. Hopefully the opportunity will open up for me." Grady was recently offered a football scholarship by Michigan State and was told he can play basketball as well. Michigan head man Tommy Amaker was in to see Grady the first week in January. His recruitment by the Wolverines picked up steam and he ended the process when he committed to the Maize and Blue Sunday January 29th. Grady will be on basketball scholarship and will play exclusively on the hardwood his first year, and then try his hand at football in the years after.


I will have more from him in a minute.


Art

Kevin Grady, Sr., has been through this before - talented child announcing his college choice. Still for the father of East Grand Rapids star Kelvin Grady stood beaming as his son pulled out a block "M" hat and announced that he would be joining his brother - Kevin - at Michigan, choosing the Wolverines over Michigan State and Xavier. "It's a great thing to have two students at the University of Michigan," Kevin, Sr., told GoBlueWolverine.com following Monday's press conference. "I always told them when they were young that they were great athletes and if they got it done in the classroom that the opportunity will come, and that's what has happened."

Michigan wasn't the favorite from the beginning for either Grady. Kevin, Sr., said during the press conference that both kids started out as Notre Dame fans. "I wasn't a Michigan fan either," he said. "I didn't really like the helmets." Kevin, Jr., became enamored with Maize and Blue after his first trip to Michigan Stadium, and is now a member of the football team. For Kelvin, it started when Michigan visited him. "I remember being at a Notre Dame game, and Dick Vitale talked to me and signed a program," he said. "I really loved Notre Dame. But when Michigan started calling I really started to like them a lot. I didn't decide for sure until last night that it was going to be Michigan, and when I called coach Amaker he was ecstatic, he said it was really great."

The 5-foot-11, 175-pound Kelvin will begin play as a point guard on the basketball team in 2007. However, after one season the plan is to play both hoops and football. "I talked to coach (Lloyd) Carr and he said I could be a Steve Breaston-type player," Kelvin said. "Special teams, and I'll be thrown in a little at running back; he's recruiting me as an athlete to come in and play all over."


These direct quotes.

Watch MSU people come and say they really didnt want him, even though he had an offer from MSU.


Art

I'm sorry, but I'm just not excited about this commitment. I've never seen him play, but I have a hard time believing that Kevin Grady's little brother who is 5'10" 170, is a legit Big Ten point guard. I don't really want a PG who has an "improving" jumper. I want someone who is already very solid. I hope this doesn't hurt our chances with Beverly, and I like Martavis Kee too.

We have enough scholly's to take at least one more PG.

This hurts us with Beverly none at all. I will postone more thing.


Art

2005-2006 Roster
No. Name Pos. HT. WT. Cl/Elig. High School
4 Daniel Horton G 6-3 190 Sr./Sr. Cedar Hill
25 Graham Brown F 6-9 245 Sr./Sr. Mio-AuSable
31 Chris Hunter F/C 6-11 210 Sr./Sr. Gary West Side
50 Amadou Ba C 6-10 250 Sr./Sr. Bridgton Academy
2 Lester Abram W 6-6 190 Sr./Jr. Pontiac Northern
5 Dion Harris G 6-3 200 Jr./Jr. Redford
44 Courtney Sims F/C 6-10 250 Jr./Jr. Noble & Greenough
23 Brent Petway F 6-8 210 Jr./Jr. Griffin
24 Ronald Coleman F 6-6 210 So./So. Romulus
1 Jerret Smith G 6-3 200 Fr./Fr. Romulus
15 Jevohn Shepherd W 6-4.5 190 Fr./Fr. West Hill Collegiate
21 Kendric Price F 6-8 190 Fr./Fr. Buckingham Browne Nichols
Open

2006-2007 Roster
No. Name Pos. HT. WT. Cl/Elig. High School
2 Lester Abram W 6-6 190 5th/Sr. Pontiac Northern
5 Dion Harris G 6-3 200 Sr./Sr. Redford
44 Courtney Sims F/C 6-10 250 Sr./Sr. Noble & Greenough
23 Brent Petway F 6-8 210 Sr./Sr. Griffin
24 Ronald Coleman F 6-6 210 Jr./Jr. Romulus
1 Jerret Smith G 6-3 200 So./So. Romulus
15 Jevohn Shepherd W 6-4.5 190 So./So. West Hill Collegiate
21 Kendric Price F 6-8 190 So./So. Buckingham Browne Nichols
K'len Morris F 6-5 190 Fr./Fr. Grand Blanc
Deshawn Sims F 6-7 230 Fr./Fr. Pershing
Anthony Wright F 6-6.5 230 Fr./Fr. Oak Hill Academy
Open
Open

2007-2008 Roster
No. Name Pos. HT. WT. Cl/Elig. High School
24 Ronald Coleman F 6-6 210 Sr./Sr. Romulus
1 Jerret Smith G 6-3 200 Jr./Jr. Romulus
15 Jevohn Shepherd W 6-4.5 190 Jr./Jr. West Hill Collegiate
21 Kendric Price F 6-8 190 Jr./Jr. Buckingham Browne Nichols
K'len Morris G 6-5 190 So./So. Grand Blanc
Deshawn Sims F 6-7 230 So./So. Pershing
Anthony Wright F 6-6.5 230 Fr./Fr. Oak Hill Academy
Alex Legion W 6-5 190 Fr./Fr.. Detroit Country Day
Kelvin Grady PG 5-10 175 Fr./Fr. East Grand Rapids
Open
Open
Open
Open


Notice how we still got 4 more open schollies for 2007-2008. When we get beverly this will mean only 3 open in 2007-2008.

We got enough to take a flyer on this kid for one year, before he becomes a FBALL schollie.


Art

Also you guys got to remember 5'10-5'11 as a sophomore means he could still grow a few inches.


Art

Beverley and/or Harris would be big gets for Tommy. Neither are point guards, but from the looks of Amaker's offense which isn't exactly "set intensive"...UM might be alright in the absence of a talented point guard.

IF Tommy brings in enough talented wings with handles, that may be enough to maintain admission to the dance.

It's an interesting recruiting strategy if anything.

These direct quotes.

Watch MSU people come and say they really didnt want him, even though he had an offer from MSU.


Art

Art, please don't act a fool. Grady did not have an offer from MSU.


Grady is a junior and is in the storied class of 2007 (one of the more talented classes in the history of the state) and Izzo was going hard after FOUR -bluest- of the blue chip recruits (Tucker, Summers, Lucas and the out-of-towner Allen) and he subsequently received commitments from three of them.

When Michigan State only had three precious scholarships open and were in so tight with the 5 star, McDAA PG Kalin Lucas...why on throne of Zeus would Tom risk ANY of the above recruits by offering a scholarship to an under-skilled 5'10" three star point guard who's not even ranked in the top 125?

The answer, he wouldn't...and didn't.

I am going to say that as with UM football, sometimes the offer may be more the kid talking then an actual offer. So was there an offer, he supposedly had one.

Like that CB that Tre is convinced her an offer from UM, but is untrue. All you got to on is what is said in articles and from the kid. Scout and Rivals are not the end all when it comes to their data bases for if a kid actually has an offer or not.

Art

Like that CB that Tre is convinced her an offer from UM, but is untrue. All you got to on is what is said in articles and from the kid. Scout and Rivals are not the end all when it comes to their data bases for if a kid actually has an offer or not.

Art

I know it's heresy and all but just use common sense on the subject.

Grady himself never said that MSU offered. And why wouldn't he have said that? Because there is zero chance in hell that Izzo would have offered a 2007 kid of Grady's "3 star, top 125" caliber.

Not when you're talking about one of THE most important recruiting class of Tom Izzo's recruiting career and not when Michigan State was all but guaranteed to receive multiple commitments from a group of guards that ALL have the ability to play in the McDonalds All American game.

First of all. I’ll come to WTF whenever the fuck I want. If I want to read posts 24 hours after a game instead of 10 hours after a game, that is what I’ll do. If I don’t want to reply when some jerkoff writes some uninformed shit, that’s what I’ll do. I didn’t vanish from the site. I’m here. Just because I don’t post a reply doesn’t mean I’m not here. If I want to cool down the next afternoon and not spend 12 hours of my day going to war, that is exactly what I’ll do. I didn’t puss out and vanish. I’m still here. So settle the fuck down.

Jethro made the exact same decision I did a couple of weeks ago. He thought he was spending too much time so he cut himself off a bit so he didn’t turn into a message board freak. I’m doing the same. I know myself and I know that I would have been on this damn board all night long if I would have got caught up in the war the day after FoulFest 06. So I let you Wolverines run your mouths and I remained quiet. You’d think you’d be happy that the Spartan was quiet the day after. I really question your obsession if your worried about whether or not DrTre is here to read your posts. Get a fucking life.

Moodini, I would pull back a bit on calling me out. I gave you props for your prediction. I’m still waiting for my props on predicting a Final Four last year 8 months before it happened. Somehow that written prediction vanished during March last year. If you want, I’ll go back and start quoting you. You’ve been wrong far more than you’ve been right. Especially, on MSU. If you want to talk “now” I guess I’ll just pull the Moodini card out and say “not impressed.”

I will have the last laugh. I promise you that. Justice will prevail on the 18th. And MSU will be raising hardware in March once again. Wait on it.

Like that CB that Tre is convinced her an offer from UM, but is untrue. All you got to on is what is said in articles and from the kid. Scout and Rivals are not the end all when it comes to their data bases for if a kid actually has an offer or not.

Art

I know it's heresy and all but just use common sense on the subject.

Grady himself never said that MSU offered. And why wouldn't he have said that? Because there is zero chance in hell that Izzo would have offered a 2007 kid of Grady's "3 star, top 125" caliber.

Not when you're talking about one of THE most important recruiting class of Tom Izzo's recruiting career and not when Michigan State was all but guaranteed to receive multiple commitments from a group of guards that ALL have the ability to play in the McDonalds All American game.

I think that MSU basketball never offered, I think that John L. may have though.

Like that CB that Tre is convinced her an offer from UM, but is untrue. All you got to on is what is said in articles and from the kid. Scout and Rivals are not the end all when it comes to their data bases for if a kid actually has an offer or not.

Art

I know it's heresy and all but just use common sense on the subject.

Grady himself never said that MSU offered. And why wouldn't he have said that? Because there is zero chance in hell that Izzo would have offered a 2007 kid of Grady's "3 star, top 125" caliber.

Not when you're talking about one of THE most important recruiting class of Tom Izzo's recruiting career and not when Michigan State was all but guaranteed to receive multiple commitments from a group of guards that ALL have the ability to play in the McDonalds All American game.

I think that MSU basketball never offered, I think that John L. may have though.

Now that is something that obeys the laws of logic and reason. [smilie=amish.gif]

Izzo would have gladly taken Grady as a "football scholarshiped walk-on." Because regardless of his eventual basketball ability, that's a win-win situation for the basketball team.

He's good...sweet and you're getting him for free! He suck...who cares, you're getting him for free.

He is going to be on schollie for B-Ball one year and then get put on football schollie. I will find out if Grady really did or did not have a schollie from Izzo and I will be man enough to admit 100% that I am wrong.

I wont come back a week later and say it.

Tre just shut the fuck up. Stop making yourself look like a bigger tool than you already are. You pussed out. Just admit it and lets move on. It is convenient for you to say you took a break after UM beat MSU, also can you stop whining about the fouls, again it makes you look like a whining ass.

Again, glad your girlfriend let you have your balls back.


Art

Big time puss out...And why is that post in this thread...doesn't make any sense to me.

First of all. I’ll come to WTF whenever the fuck I want. If I want to read posts 24 hours after a game instead of 10 hours after a game, that is what I’ll do. If I don’t want to reply when some jerkoff writes some uninformed shit, that’s what I’ll do. I didn’t vanish from the site. I’m here. Just because I don’t post a reply doesn’t mean I’m not here. If I want to cool down the next afternoon and not spend 12 hours of my day going to war, that is exactly what I’ll do. I didn’t puss out and vanish. I’m still here. So settle the fuck down.

Jethro made the exact same decision I did a couple of weeks ago. He thought he was spending too much time so he cut himself off a bit so he didn’t turn into a message board freak. I’m doing the same. I know myself and I know that I would have been on this damn board all night long if I would have got caught up in the war the day after FoulFest 06. So I let you Wolverines run your mouths and I remained quiet. You’d think you’d be happy that the Spartan was quiet the day after. I really question your obsession if your worried about whether or not DrTre is here to read your posts. Get a fucking life.

Moodini, I would pull back a bit on calling me out. I gave you props for your prediction. I’m still waiting for my props on predicting a Final Four last year 8 months before it happened. Somehow that written prediction vanished during March last year. If you want, I’ll go back and start quoting you. You’ve been wrong far more than you’ve been right. Especially, on MSU. If you want to talk “now” I guess I’ll just pull the Moodini card out and say “not impressed.”

I will have the last laugh. I promise you that. Justice will prevail on the 18th. And MSU will be raising hardware in March once again. Wait on it.

Ok, Tre, now that you're "back" you've got to address this:

You'll find me here in the morning Moodini. [smilie=goodnews.gi: I just hope you come back here to the D to get yours. [smilie=fryingpan.g:
What happened bro? I was here. You weren't. Were you ashamed or was it a "coincidence" that you tried to stop being a "message board freak" the day after your "elite" Spartans lost to the Wolverines with the "joke program". I seriously want to know your reasoning for not showing after a statement like that. I will guarantee you that I will be here the day after the game at State, no matter the outcome (I gotta admit, I like our chances a little bit in that one too), but will you be here? [smilie=shrug smile:

I'm going to move on, this is my last post on the game and Tre's no show, I just need some closure. And by the way, if you call the game "FoulFest 06" you are officially whining. [smilie=hissyfit.gi:

Had UM just flat out beat State like in 01, I would have been here. Considering the circumstances, I wasn't about to listen to anything about some bullshit game.

You can ignore the obvious, but everyone saw what happened. I'd actually do the same if I was you. I wouldn't want to accept the fact that the one game my team finally won was handed to them.

And I don't want to hear anything about whining. I've listened to you for years cry [smilie=baby.gif] about every single significant loss Michigan and now you want to call me on it?????!!!! crowned field, clock keeper, injuries, sun belt officials boooo freaking hooooo And now you don't want to hear complaints. That's like listening to Terrell Owens complain about somebody not being a team player. what a joke!

The difference between you and I? This is the one and only time I've "whined" about something other than the team deciding the outcome of the game. You whine every single time Michigan loses about something other than your team. I just ran off 4 above without even trying.

You like your chances in the Brez huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'll address that shortly. Forget that, I'll address it now. Your team doesn't have a shot in hell to beat State in East Lansing. Your team doesn't have a shot in hell to beat State again period. You needed a +24 free throw advantage just to pull out a tight finish at home. Consider the last game a gift and stop while you're ahead.

You like your chances in the Brez huh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'll address that shortly. Forget that, I'll address it now. Your team doesn't have a shot in hell to beat State in East Lansing. Your team doesn't have a shot in hell to beat State again period. You needed a +24 free throw advantage just to pull out a tight finish at home. Consider the last game a gift and stop while you're ahead.

Penn St. almost got you in "The Brez" and I think we have a little more talent than them. [smilie=wink2.gif] And remember, Lester will be back.

By the way Tre, check your private messages.

Tre STFU you stopped having a say in anything once you couldnt be bothered to show up the next day.

I think you will seriously kill yourself if UM beats MSU.

GO BLUE!!!


Art

I'm not worried about it, cuz it won't happen.

Moodini, I guarantee victory. 100% lock.

I'm not worried about it, cuz it won't happen.

Moodini, I guarantee victory. !00% lock.

A 00% lock. Double 0? William Bedford percentage? That's not exactly going out on a limb. lol. [smilie=rofl.gif]

Tre, check your private messages and respond yo.

Artermis wrote:

These direct quotes.

Watch MSU people come and say they really didnt want him, even though he had an offer from MSU.


Art


Just read this for the first time. hahaha Ummm...Izzo didn't even come remotely close to offering this kid.

I always say I can admit when I'm wrong. I'm always tellin Jethro that [smilie=gymnast.gif] . So I should probably admit that I should have come on here and posted the day after the MSU-UM game.

Truth is, I was a little too active on the site, I was too pissed, and I didn't want to go to war. In addition, I really did have duty. I rarely get online on Thursdays because of this.

MSU basketball was already dominating my convos and time so much that I didn't want another headache when it came to heading to the board. So I'll admit I should have showed. But, my decision saved me a headache.

I can admit it, I should have showed.

But, whew! Somebody should have told me that 24 hrs. is too long to wait to post! damn haha I thought WW3 was breaking out! [smilie=army.gif]

I always say I can admit when I'm wrong. I'm always tellin Jethro that [smilie=gymnast.gif] . So I should probably admit that I should have come on here and posted the day after the MSU-UM game.

Truth is, I was a little too active on the site, I was too pissed, and I didn't want to go to war. In addition, I really did have duty. I rarely get online on Thursdays because of this.

MSU basketball was already dominating my convos and time so much that I didn't want another headache when it came to heading to the board. So I'll admit I should have showed. But, my decision saved me a headache.

I can admit it, I should have showed.

But, whew! Somebody should have told me that 24 hrs. is too long to wait to post! damn haha I thought WW3 was breaking out! [smilie=army.gif]

Finally, I think that's what we were waiting for Tre. [smilie=applause.gi: Except for that "duty" part. I'm sure you could have found some time. But whatever, it's over.

No doubt I could have found time. I could have came to school early like I did today. But, think about it...would you get up early after your squad lost just so you can get online and read about it? haha not a chance

This question is for everyone, Wolverines and Spartans both. What do you think this team is capable of? With great guard play (and money free throw shooting) from Horton and Harris, solid wing play from a healthy Lester Abram and an improving Ron Coleman, and the 4 headed monster of Sims, Brown, Petway and Hunter, How far can this team go? Do they have a legitamite shot at the Big Ten title? Can they win the Big Ten tournament? Will they make the Big Dance? Where will they be seeded? How far can they advance?

Toughts? [smilie=wink.gif]

In order to make the tourney they have to finish. 6-2 so far in Big Ten play. That means 8 games left. Tough games. Ranked opponents and road games. I think they go about .500 the rest of the way, 4-4 finishing 10-6 in the conference. The conference is good enough this year that they make it in that instance - but just barely. I think they win 1 or 2 games in the Big Ten tourney as well. If somehow they do better and get a decent seed (Lunardi has them as a 6 right now), they can win that first game. Actually, right now they would face Tennessee in the 2nd round and I think they could beat that team. Sweet Sixteen. I think that's the best case scenario for this team. If they go any further I will be absolutely shocked (but Digger and Dicke won't)!

Michigan is going to have to win their home games, maybe one road game, and one Big Ten Tourney game. Then they are in the NCAA. They will probably be between a 6-9 seed, get a challenging first round game and tough second round game. I don't see them getting out of the second round. They are possibly one of the teams that could be upset in the first round of the NCAA.

MIchigan goes 8-8 in the conference they are in. Big Ten is the best conference of terms of confernce RPI and that will make it that any .500 team in conferenec play will more than likely make the dance.


Art

4 headed monster of Sims, Brown, Petway and Hunter

Easy dog

4 headed monster of Sims, Brown, Petway and Hunter

Easy dog

They looked pretty tough against your boyz. Especially Hunter.

They did look good at the line.

They did look good at the line. [smilie=hissyfit.gi: [smilie=baby.gif] [smilie=hissyfit.gi:
Here we go again.

4 headed monster of Sims, Brown, Petway and Hunter

Easy dog

They looked pretty tough against your boyz. Especially Hunter.

13 & 4...10 & 7...4 & 3...4 & 3?

I wouldn't call that looking pretty tough. Horton is the only M player who looked like a tough SOB against MSU.

4 headed monster of Sims, Brown, Petway and Hunter

Easy dog

They looked pretty tough against your boyz. Especially Hunter.

13 & 4...10 & 7...4 & 3...4 & 3?

I wouldn't call that looking pretty tough. Horton is the only M player who looked like a tough SOB against MSU.

They played their roles and led M to the big W.

After beating the #12 "ELITE" Michigan State Spartans and the Big Ten leading #21 Wisconsin Badgers (without Lester Abram) in the same week, Michigan will be ranked in the top 25 and will be in first place in the Big Ten. Are we still "stuck" as a bad program playing second fiddle to anyone?

DrTre woke up smiling today.

Where was the 4 headed monster on Saturday?

Where was the 4 headed monster on Saturday?

Getting pissed off at watching Episode II: The Return of the Walk-on Backcourt. [smilie=puke.gif]

DrTre11 wrote:
Where was the 4 headed monster on Saturday?

Moodini wrote: Getting pissed off at watching Episode II: The Return of the Walk-on Backcourt.

Wait a minute! If you want to blame injuries (again) for losses, that is fine. But, this is the same stuff we've delt with in the past. You want to blaim your losses on injuries, but you completely ignore injuries when it comes to State. Example?


Moodini: Penn St. almost got you in "The Brez"
I didn't see you citing the fact that Davis didn't play here! When State lost to Michigan I didn't see you acknowledge the fact that Naymick didn't play. Naymick was our first big man off the bench last year. He might be a goon, but he played great against Duke and Kentucky. Ya think he would have helped when our entire front line was on the bench with foul trouble? Yea, but I didn't mention it.

If you wanna go with injuries as an excuse, that's totally fine with me. But, it's gotta go both ways. I guarantee if I would have mentioned Naymick after the UM game, you would have said I was whining.

Tre, are you serious? Are you really trying to say that if Naymick would have played, State would have beaten Michigan? [smilie=bullshit.gi: You are really reaching dog. State has beaten plenty of solid teams this year (as you've pointed out like 84 times) without that jicknugget. [smilie=dopey.gif] As tough as it is to take for you, FACE IT, MICHIGAN STATE LOST TO MICHIGAN, end of story.

Oh, and this post-fest reminds me of something:


Jethro made the exact same decision I did a couple of weeks ago. He thought he was spending too much time so he cut himself off a bit so he didn’t turn into a message board freak. I’m doing the same.

Has Tre really been cutting himself off? Whenever I go to the NCAA forum DrTre11 is the last one to post in about 80% of the threads.

In other words, I'm not buying it. It's been a DrTre posting fury ever since State beat Penn St. and the hype from the loss to Michigan had died down.

Nope, we didn't forget about that excuse either. [smilie=escape.gif]

Tre, are you serious? Are you really trying to say that if Naymick would have played, State would have beaten Michigan?

Can you read? I didn't say that at all. I said, I could have been singing the same Wolverine crying tune because we have injuries too. But, you don't hear me complaining about Davis out, or Naymick lost for the season.

It's the same Wolverine shit, you brag up your team until they lose. Then you find excuses.

I did whine after the UM game, but that was one incident. I wouldn't get on your cases if it was once in awhile. But, you have an excuse for EVERY SINGLE LOSS!!!!!!! You lose by 30 and you're blaiming injuries. Whatever.

You should work on your excuse for the game at the Brez now.

As tough as it is to take for you, FACE IT, MICHIGAN STATE LOST TO MICHIGAN, end of story.

It's not tough at all. I can handle a 12-2 record versus Michigan. With one loss being controversial. And another game coming in the Breslin. I can totally handle that. Are you proud of that record (2-12)?


Has Tre really been cutting himself off? Whenever I go to the NCAA forum DrTre11 is the last one to post in about 80% of the threads.I've been on here MUCH less. I usually visit once-twice a day. Used to be about 5 times a day. When I do visit, I respond to every post. That is my job as a moderator, keep threads going and initiate discussion. [smilie=modpower.gi:

Abram >>>>>>>>>>>> Naymick

Abram >>>>>>>>>>>> Naymick

WARNING! Limbs are being walked out on here.


That's like saying Izzo>>>>>>>>>>Amaker. I mean c'mon...no shit.[smilie=antlers.gif]


JackTalkThai

I'm just saying, bitch about losing Naymick for a season all you want, but don't mouth off about losing Abram for a season if you're going to.

The intended audience knows who they are.

Man, you guys are struggling. Reading is fundamental!

Let me summarize the conversation for better understanding. Moodini took a little shot at State for not beating PSU by much. He didn't mention the fact that they were without Davis.

Then Michigan got beat by Iowa. So I gave him crap for it. He blaimed injuries.

Therefore, I said, "If you are going to cite injuries than you need to cite them for us as well." I cited the fact that the Spartans haven't brought up Naymick when they've lost.

Naymick isn't as good as Abram. I'm just saying that we've lost quality players too and haven't blaimed losses for it. [smilie=banghead.gi:

I don't care what you're saying, I just like to talk about Abram being better than Naymick, that's all.

How do you know? I can't remember ever seeing Abram play. Is he a guard, forward, center?

Speaking of Naymick: He turned down a Michigan offer to attend State. He said he chose Michigan State because of their tradition of playing in Final Fours.

http://www.nmps.k12.mi.us/NMPSTeachers/Karaba/rocket/Funny/DrewF.jpg
Yes, that's right. I just posted a pic of Drew Freaking Naymick
http://www.daily-jeff.com/archive/03282005/photos/32805michiganst.jpg

Ya ever crack up at your own post? I keep looking at Naymick doing the crane and I can't stop! [smilie=great.gif]

Thank you Drew, for not picking Michigan. I wouldn't ever want to see that pick and have it associated with my squad.

Abram picked Michigan over State because he wasn't a red-headed dumbass.

Thank you Drew, for not picking Michigan. I wouldn't ever want to see that pick and have it associated with my squad.

Abram picked Michigan over State because he wasn't a red-headed dumbass.

You do realize that he might be starting for you now(if he was healthy), and would next year, and the year after that(if you factored in his RS year).

But not like you would actually want a big, that would be silly.

Down goes Harris. This team is in serious trouble in the backcourt.



Art

I understand why you would rip on the guy. He is a dorky lookin' cat. At the same time, he actually is a pretty good basketball player. He made significant strides in the tourney last year. His defense is good and he can finish. Not score regularly, but finish.

Anybody wanna get lippy now?

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/osu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_action/93613.jpeg


DrTre11 wrote:
I'm sorry brotha, but if you think Michigan is going to beat Michigan State, then Wisconsin, and follow it up with a win against Ohio State...you are dillusional.

Moodini wrote: 2 down......1 to go.

Thank you. [smilie=applause.gi:

Ok, let me just say this. I'm not upset about the game last night. While I'm not a big emotional win kind of guy, I thought Michigan played well. I'm NOT going to blame the loss on injury. Ohio State simply shot the lights out. Yes, we were home and should have gotten the job done, and we came close - even though that means NOTHING. Ohio State outplayed us and torched the nets from long range. The fellas better not get down about the Harris injury and better regroup so the season doesn't quickly slip away. While I, again, am not blaming anything on injury, I certainly hope the Harris injury isn't extremely serious.

A very poor ending (and I'm not talking about simply UofM lossing) to what had been a rather exciting game. I was disappointed to see the Wolverines pretty much shut down after the injury. Ohio State shot incredibly and played well after the initial 21-8 or whatever run.

The scary thing is this is going to be UM's lineup against Purdue...

PG- Horton
SG- Grooms
SF- Coleman
PF- Brown
C- Sims

Bench...Petway, Hunter, Shepherd and Harrell.

[smilie=anxious.gif]

Kind of makes you miss Dani Wohl just a bit doesn't it?

The next week will decide Michigan's fate. If they fight through the injuries, somehow pull out a win against Purdue, and upset MSU in the Breslin, things will start looking up.

They must do this though. If they lose to Purdue, they are going to tank it the rest of the way. And the committee generally has short term memory. What have you done for me lately mentality. That won't help matters when deciding seeding.

I already thought Purdue was going to be a tough game, now it could be a real battle. [smilie=arrgh.jpg]

The next week will decide Michigan's fate. If they fight through the injuries, somehow pull out a win against Purdue, and upset MSU in the Breslin, things will start looking up.



In order to make the tourney, Michigan will have to beat Minny and Purdue and then beat one of Illinois or Indiana when they come to Crisler.

9 wins is all they need. It's doable but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Can I just ask something? How in the hell does that happen two straight games? Every team, once a year, will have a game where they just can't miss. There's no way to beat them as they're unconscious. It happened twice AGAINST Michigan in as many games. Iowa shot what, 80 percent from three-land? Ohio State then went on to nail 8 out of 9 threes in the first half? That's just not right.

Can I just ask something? How in the hell does that happen two straight games? Every team, once a year, will have a game where they just can't miss. There's no way to beat them as they're unconscious. It happened twice AGAINST Michigan in as many games. Iowa shot what, 80 percent from three-land? Ohio State then went on to nail 8 out of 9 threes in the first half? That's just not right.

It's called shitty defense. Ohio State was getting a ton of open looks against UM's shoddy zone defense. Admittedly, the lack of a guard rotation is partly attributable for that fact.

The defense wasn't terrible, it wasn't great, but definitely not terrible. Even if teams are partly open, you shouldn't hit 8 out of 9 threes. And Iowa was shooting threes on the run. There's no way to guard that. When it's your night, it's your night.

The defense wasn't terrible, it wasn't great, but definitely not terrible. Even if teams are partly open, you shouldn't hit 8 out of 9 threes. And Iowa was shooting threes on the run. There's no way to guard that. When it's your night, it's your night.

Sorry, I just don't buy the "we're unlucky" bullshit. You don't have two consecutive teams shoot like that against you without somewhat allowing them to get into a rhythm from the perimeter.

Maybe Daniel and Dion are getting fatigued from playing too many minutes. Maybe the lack of Lester is finally rearing its' ugly head. I don't know but it's not just bad luck and freak shooting.

Did you watch either game?

And how is it that hard to see that Iowa and Ohio State just shot the lights out? It was an impressive performance by both of them.

Generally, I look at things like this from a coaching perspective and most coaches will tell ya that your defense can greatly determine how another team shoots.

There are those nights that the other team just can't miss. But, you can usually change things up to speed up the game or slow it down. Playing contain or putting a lot of pressure on the ball handlers will almost always effect shooters.

so its pry a little of both

Wonk chimes in...


UM has now allowed two of the best shooting performances we've seen from any Big Ten team all season long--in back-to-back games. It's fair to ask how much of this is bad luck and how much is bad defense.

Wonk thinks it's almost exactly equal measures of both. Ohio State has played worse defenses than Michigan's and not shot as well as they did last night. That much is luck. Still, the Wolverines do indeed have some defensive liabilities. Screens, to pick one mundane example, seem to work about 50 percent better against Michigan than what is normal, particularly against non-Graham Brown Wolverines. Much of the first-half damage from long range was done on simple ball screens. Daniel Horton (who got the rare points-assists dub-dub last night with a 15-10), Dion Harris, Chris Hunter--all struggled with screens. (Horton was also too eager to sag on the weak side last night and was burned on a nice skip pass to Foster from Sylvester.)

Michigan is still going to make the tournament and four weeks from now they'll be garnering the standard accolades (long, athletic, dangerous, etc.). But in truth they're allowing points at a rate (1.08 points per possession in Big Ten play) that will make any multi-game tournament run unlikely to the point of miracle-working.

Still, need it be said, they've come a long way in one year.

Who the Fuck is Wonk?

I'm not sure, but it sounds a lot like the real name of our newest poster that "just moved here from North Carolina". What a load of crap. I'm still planning to out him next time I see him at Meijer.

(while 95% of the posters wonder what the hell I'm talking about)

2nd thread in as many days that I've been completely lost in...

Michigan really needs to steal a win today. Apparently Abram could return as early as next week and Harris's injury isn't as bad as it looked. In his words, "I was hoping when I got up I could put a little pressure on it and keep playing, but that wasn't the case," said Harris. "I came down on someone's foot … they think it's just a little sprain, just probably treat it during the week." Jerret Smith has mono and is out indefinitely. Smith will likely return to Ann Arbor Monday, but it could be quite some time before he's in shape to contribute.

If U-M can steal one today and get real healthy real quick they should be OK. With a loss today and/or lingering injuries they could be staring at the NIT. Sucky. [smilie=thumbsdown.:

Michigan really needs to steal a win today. Apparently Abram could return as early as next week and Harris's injury isn't as bad as it looked. In his words, "I was hoping when I got up I could put a little pressure on it and keep playing, but that wasn't the case," said Harris. "I came down on someone's foot … they think it's just a little sprain, just probably treat it during the week." Jerret Smith has mono and is out indefinitely. Smith will likely return to Ann Arbor Monday, but it could be quite some time before he's in shape to contribute.

If U-M can steal one today and get real healthy real quick they should be OK. With a loss today and/or lingering injuries they could be staring at the NIT. Sucky. [smilie=thumbsdown.:

I wouldn't call it a steal. Purdue plays hard but their talent level is minimal. I see Horton carrying the Wolves as nobody on Purdue should be able to match-up. If Sims can come with even half of what he did against OSU, Michigan should win by double digits.

[smilie=puke.gif]

I'm so freaking sick of this crap. Michigan basketball is cursed. It's the same thing every year. You look at Michigan's roster before the season and you get excited. They pick up a few big wins and things are looking up. Then all of a sudden players start dropping like flies and you're forced to watch walk-ons and clowns play down the Big Ten stretch run.

Right now I see Hayes Grooms, Sherrod Harrell, Jevohn Shepherd and Ron Coleman all on the floor at the same time. [smilie=clown.gif] [smilie=cheer.gif] [smilie=jester.gif] [smilie=mickey.gif] Well, I'm not going to watch that shit.

Why does everyone make every single 3 pointer vs. Michigan?!!! AAAAAAH! This is absolutely INSANE!!!

Time to pop in some NBA 2K6 on the 360 where I can play with the Pistons and feel it. Out.

Mood

Damn, another Michigan opponent just getting lucky with the bounces. [smilie=anxious.gif]

And remember guys, Purdue is missing FOUR starters.

I stopped watching when they were down 20 with 5 minutes left. I wish I didn't miss the best comeback of all time or something like that.

I campare UM basketball to MSU football; win early get hyped, lose a heart breaker, then 2-3 in a row, now you suck. You can say what you want about injuries this and that, but NCAA bound teams find ways to win and UM doesn't. Looks like they will need a couple wins in the Big 10 Tourney to get in to the NCAA.

I campare UM basketball to MSU football; win early get hyped, lose a heart breaker, then 2-3 in a row, now you suck. You can say what you want about injuries this and that, but NCAA bound teams find ways to win and UM doesn't. Looks like they will need a couple wins in the Big 10 Tourney to get in to the NCAA.Thats what I was thinking.

You guys laughed at us for losing to Purdue in football. There, I'll now laugh at you for losing to them in basketball.


[smilie=hahaha.gif]

It's obvious that this won't be UM's year to even get into the tourney. This team would be fine if we were healthy, but the mental toughness of our two best players, Horton and Sims is horrible. I think at least Horton believes he is tough, but he is as weak as Sims IMO. Sims....UGGGGHHH, what can ya say. When he is into the game, like he was against OSU and nobody could keep him off the boards, he is a monster. If he played with 75% of the energy and heart he put out against the Bucks, he would be a top 5 Center in the NCAA. As is right now, he isn't a top 5 Center in the Big Ten. I have a problem making injury excuses for one game, but when a whole season gets ruined because of them, I have no problem using that as an excuse. Oh well, maybe I am wrong and we get lucky and healthy really fast, and backdoor into the NCAA tourney. My hopes on this happening however, are not high. Like Moodini says, at least we have women's softball...LOL.

http://www.umgoblue.com/images/Softball/05/05Softball-Drew.jpg

I'm tired of injury excuses. I just wish this team would be healthy come tournament time to see what might have been. But the way they have given up against hot-shooting teams, they don't deserve that chance. The sarcastic predictions of the blowout at the Brez are looking more and more realistic. Let's put it this way, when Michigan shows up with half a team, and State has revenge on their mind, if it isn't a blowout it will be pathetic from a State point of view.

The problem with this loss is that Purdue had 4 starters out for the season. I totally can understand injuries having an impact on Michigan's success, but when you get blown out by a team with even worse injury problems-that's bad.

Could be worse though, you could be healthy and lose to Minnesota.

Damn, another Michigan opponent just getting lucky with the bounces. [smilie=anxious.gif]

And remember guys, Purdue is missing FOUR starters.

Nothing to do with bad bounces this time. Michigan just blows now.

Don't give me the Purdue 4 starters shit because State had their own struggles with Purdue for a good portion of the game and Tre was worried about it going in, not just the Michigan game but the State game as well. It's at least a group left that has been playing through it for quite a while. Anyhow, I don't have any excuses for the game. Purdue obviously wanted it more. Good work for them.

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Don't give me the Purdue 4 starters shit because State had their own struggles with Purdue for a good portion of the game and Tre was worried about it going in

When did I say I was worried about Purdue?! I never said that. I did however predict that this game would be trouble for UM with only having one day of preparation.

I don't get this post, are you defending a blowout loss to Purdue? I'm not hypin' State obviously, I just said it was a bad loss and it was.

I don't get this post, are you defending a blowout loss to Purdue?


I don't have any excuses for the game. Purdue obviously wanted it more.

And to think you're the one calling me out for saying you said something other than what you really said.

Don't give me the Purdue 4 starters shit because State had their own struggles with Purdue for a good portion of the game

Sounds like you were defending the loss. If not, I don't get this sentence.

I was defending against your attack, not against the loss. The loss was bad enough. I didn't need a jicknut making it worse.

I would think you would agree with me. If you ripped State for their recent downfall, I'd agree as well.

Ok, even though Minnesota is bad, this was a big, big win for Michigan. Why? Because previous Michigan teams have let 3 game losing streaks turn into 6 game losing streaks, including piling up losses to teams they should have beaten (see Purdue). They got back on track, at least for the moment. Three very difficult games ahead, all against teams currently ranked in the top 16, with 2 of the three on the road. Ouch. Might lose all 3. Then they come home to close out the regular season with a game against Indiana. If Indiana gets their shit together, that game might prove to be one where the winner makes the tourney and the loser doesn't. Of course, the teams still get a chance to make a run and an impression in the Big Ten tourney, but it might still all trace back to that one game. Hopefully Michigan can take at least one of the next three and earn their spot that way.

So what's the consensus among the BT faithful? Tourney or no tourney? It's gonna come down to the wire.

You wolverines need to step up man. I know you're disappointed at the turn of events, but the season isn't over. The tourney is still possible and that should excite you. This forum is about 70-30 in favor of Michigan fans. You guys gotta keep things going.

Huge game tonight. A win would get Michigan in the tournament in my opinion. It will be tough, but it is at home. We'll see if the Michigan crowd is faithful or not tonight. The team is going to need them to get them rollin'. I really hope Michigan can pull off this upset. It would be huge in the BT race.

Go Blue...?

I can see you want the win for old Blue so it can help you in the race, but it's not going to happen man. Yeah, at one point it looked like a good shot. Michigan played with Illinois right down to the last minute at Champagne, so beating them in AA looked very possible, right? Yeah, well, nice how in your sig our "team sucks" and now you're talking about them beating the #8 team in the country? I would think we had a chance too, but not without Hunter. Yeah, other injuries have hurt, but Hunter is a big and a leader. Michigan was seriously crippled without him against State. Graham stepped up huge and Sims looked ok in the stat column, but the team was constipated without him. Horrible shot selection because he wasn't there to stretch the middle of the defense. He's the only big that can do ANYTHING more than 6 or 7 feet away from the basket. The season really is done without him. Unless he makes it back in time for the Indiana game, which he won't, this team is going nowhere. What a sad way for him to end his college career.

I was trying to inspire hope in attempt to pull this thread out from 6 ft. under.

I'm sorry, but I think you think too highly of your boy Hunter. He's good for a few rebounds a game and a 3 or two. That's about it. He's not very tough or strong on the defensive end.

Hunter is effective at what he does. There is plenty he does that isn't in the box score. For example, you say he's good for a 3 or two per game. So, if a center can hit that shot, how do you cover him? Do you let him take it or do you put a big out on him? Do you drop into a zone? Either he gets a shot off over a smaller player or he opens up the interior for one of Michigan's guards to drive the lane. You notice how Michigan didn't drive against State? They would have if Hunter was on the floor. He also takes foul pressure off Brown and Sims so they (Borwn in particular) can be more aggressive. Sure, he only gets 3.3 boards per game and about 1 block per game. He's getting about half the minutes Paul Davis gets. Give him 34 minutes and he's getting 14 points, 7 boards and 2 blocks. That's pretty decent. That the per-minute impact he is capable of. But instead we have to give his 17 minutes to Brown - fine, Sims - not so good, and Petway - horrible, and allow opposing defenses to sit tight in the lane while we jack up horrible shots.

By the way, this thread didn't need your help for resurrection. I'm not in the "where will State end up" thread because I don't care. If Michigan fans wanted this thread back, it would be back. But for now, maybe we're just used to being able to let it go. You know, like Michigan State Bowl game threads.

I'd like to be the first one on this board to welcome the Wolverines to the NCAA tournament. This win over Illinois should lock it up. [smilie=welcome.gif]

Too bad I smell a 1st round exit.

Well, after my comments earlier I'm obviously shocked by this game. It took Horton being Superman to get it done. Even then, it was surprising. I'm curious to see what Michigan does the rest of the regular season. Now that they're allegedly a lock for the tourney, do they bust their butts to build on that and play for a higher seed, or do they let themselves go and drop all or a couple of these last three games? I still think Hunter's influence can't be overlooked, and if there was any way he could be back by that first round game I would be more confident about our chances to win it, but we'll just have to wait and see. At this point I might get excited about the chances of Abram coming back as well, but you get used to playing without him after all this time.

LOL @ UM winning a game I don't believe they had any business winning...WOOOOO HOOOOOO, none the less....



HAIL TO THE VICTORS VALIANT!!!

LOL @ UM winning a game I don't believe they had any business winning...WOOOOO HOOOOOO, none the less....



HAIL TO THE VICTORS VALIANT!!!
Big win by the Wolfies. Makes things very interesting in the big ten

Props to Michigan for that big win against Illinois. I'm only saying this because hopefully it helps Michigan State win the Big 10 title. Still, this conference is crazy and I'm sure the Big 10 Tournament will be the same.

Props to Michigan for that big win against Illinois. I'm only saying this because hopefully it helps Michigan State win the Big 10 title. Still, this conference is crazy and I'm sure the Big 10 Tournament will be the same.
I'm very interested to see what the top teams in the conference do against one another (I'm not exactly putting Michigan in that group, just to be clear) in the Big Ten Tounrnament. So much has, so far, been dictated by home court this year that it will be worth watching to see who comes out on top when the court in neutral - to some degree anyhow.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEYA BLUE! WAY TO GET EM! [smilie=applause.gi: Super hyped about the UM win (you might want to mark that one down). I know I spoke optimistically in a previous post to spark interest, but honestly I didn't think Michigan had a chance in hell.

Well, that one was big and almost guarantees Michigan a spot in the tourney (congrats).

It also helps out my Spartans! [smilie=wink.gif]

Illinois will have the "home advantage" with the Big 10 tourney in Chicago so I would have to pick the Illini as the early favorite depending on their seed and match-up. Wisconsin will have a strong following too since they neighbor Illinois. But, both those teams could meet in the semi-finals or earlier depending on what happens in the rest of the regular season. With the way the Big 10 is one of them could be out after the first or second round too.

I thought the Big Ten tourney was at Conseco in Indy this year.

Sorry Jethro, would have gotten to this earlier. But, I didn't see it until now.


Sure, he only gets 3.3 boards per game and about 1 block per game. He's getting about half the minutes Paul Davis gets. Give him 34 minutes and he's getting 14 points, 7 boards and 2 blocks. That's pretty decent.

It doesn't work that way dog. Hollywood (nobody else is going to have a clue what I'm talking about haha) is averaging a point a minute for us this year. Does that mean if we start him and he plays all 32 minutes, he's going to average 32 points a game? Not a chance. There is a reason why guys play more limited minutes.

You could definately use Hunter and he'd help. But, you are blowin' it up a little. And half the teams in the country have similar or worse problems. We've lost our #1 and #2 Power Forward for the season. It happens.

Yeah, that's fine, but most of the teams going to the tourney are built upon depth. Michigan doesn't have that luxury. In comparison, I think you would agree that Lester and Hunter being out hurts Michigan a ton more than you losing Naymick and Trannon. Would you agree? I'm not saying both teams aren't hurt by the injuries, but most teams aren't hurt quite as much as Michigan is by this. It's their own fault for not getting the depth they need, so I'm not blaming anyone - just having a pity party really.

I thought the Big Ten tourney was at Conseco in Indy this year.It is,

Yeah, that's fine, but most of the teams going to the tourney are built upon depth. Michigan doesn't have that luxury. In comparison, I think you would agree that Lester and Hunter being out hurts Michigan a ton more than you losing Naymick and Trannon. Would you agree? I'm not saying both teams aren't hurt by the injuries, but most teams aren't hurt quite as much as Michigan is by this. It's their own fault for not getting the depth they need, so I'm not blaming anyone - just having a pity party really.

You don't think Michigan is deep? Obviously the two injuries make them a lot less deep. But, they have more depth than a lot of other teams.

Is Lester and Hunter bigger as a loss than Trannon and Naymick? I have no clue. I'll know more tonight when I see the rotations. All I know is that we now have two freshman at the PF position and that could be a problem. But, I hope it doesn't have much of an impact and you are right.

I thought about this converstion/moodini trash talk earlier today:
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moodini31 wrote: I hate to keep piling on Tre, but I was reading back through these threads and they need to be recognized.

DrTre11 wrote:
As you know, I've criticized Tommy Amaker since the day he stepped into Ann Arbor. His reputation is a recruiter that can't coach. Therefore, in my opinion they need somebody else before they can become a good program.

But, it's not like Michigan can fire him and just go grab a great coach. A great coach isn't going to jump at the chance to go to Michigan, play second fiddle on campus to Football and then play second fiddle to Michigan State within the sport. So they are kindof stuck.


Moodini31 wrote: After beating the #12 "ELITE" Michigan State Spartans and the Big Ten leading #21 Wisconsin Badgers (without Lester Abram) in the same week, Michigan will be ranked in the top 25 and will be in first place in the Big Ten. Are we still "stuck" as a bad program playing second fiddle to anyone?

DrTre11 wrote:
Michigan MUST make the NCAA tourney this year with a veteran team. They just have to. I personally don't think it is going to happen though. In order to make it, they must win every game they are supposed to win and then pull off two upsets. They need to upset MSU, Illinois, Indiana, or Wisconsin. They need to grab two wins from those teams. I truly believe that the growth process starts with the head coach though and Amaker has never convinced me he's capable.


Moodini31 wrote: Do you still think we're not going to make the tourney and Amaker is not capable?

[smilie=2thumbsup.g: [smilie=2thumbsup.g: [smilie=2thumbsup.g: [smilie=2thumbsup.g: [smilie=2thumbsup.g: [smilie=2thumbsup.g:

The thing that's a joke to me is the fact that everyone and their mother, including all the national media, said Michigan was an absolute lock after the Illinois game and it didn't matter what happened after that. Some had them in even before the Illinois game, regardless of what happened. Then 2 days later they are a must-win bubble team? Yeah, Michigan shot themselves in the foot and going 3-7 down the stretch doesn't get you anywhere. Yeah, they could have EASILY been 5-5 down the stretch had Amaker not made a handful of horrible coaching moves. But how can you say someone is in and then take it back? Of course Michigan, especially Horton, shot not have believed they were a lock, but I'm still irritated by the rest of it.

As for ther program. Yes, there will be some dropoff next year, but not as much as State will have. And considerring both teams went 8-8 in the conference, State fans should guard themselves. Your feelings that you're "elite" need a couple tourney wins or else I'll be the one finding imaginary articles in the Free Press above a fall from (fill in the blank).

The thing that's a joke to me is the fact that everyone and their mother, including all the national media, said Michigan was an absolute lock after the Illinois game and it didn't matter what happened after that. Some had them in even before the Illinois game, regardless of what happened. Then 2 days later they are a must-win bubble team? Yeah, Michigan shot themselves in the foot and going 3-7 down the stretch doesn't get you anywhere. Yeah, they could have EASILY been 5-5 down the stretch had Amaker not made a handful of horrible coaching moves. But how can you say someone is in and then take it back? Of course Michigan, especially Horton, shot not have believed they were a lock, but I'm still irritated by the rest of it.

As for ther program. Yes, there will be some dropoff next year, but not as much as State will have. And considerring both teams went 8-8 in the conference, State fans should guard themselves. Your feelings that you're "elite" need a couple tourney wins or else I'll be the one finding imaginary articles in the Free Press above a fall from (fill in the blank).

Losing Davis and Ager. That means more Shannon and less Ager, which is good, but no Davis which is bad. Still, that isn't too bad when adding a top 10 class.

Now Michigan loses their best player, scoring, passing, ballhandling and any other which way wise. They also lose their 2 of their top 3 post threats. Abrahm has also suggested that he may leave. That is up in the air, but not that big of a deal.

Smith
Harris
Abrams
Sims
Sims

Not a team that scares me, now with Coleman instead of Abrams that is flat out horrid.

MSU '06-07

Nietzel/Walton
Brown/Dahlman/Joseph
Morgan/Dahlman
Gray/Suton
Naymick/Ibok/Herzog

That team should be deeper, and more flexible than the current one. Now, if Brown leaves, that is definitely a rebuilding year, if not, an upper end Big Ten team(in an admittedly down year for the conference).

Smith
Harris
Abrams
Sims
Sims

Not a team that scares me, now with Coleman instead of Abrams that is flat out horrid.

MSU '06-07

Nietzel/Walton
Brown/Dahlman/Joseph
Morgan/Dahlman
Gray/Suton
Naymick/Ibok/Herzog

That team should be deeper, and more flexible than the current one. Now, if Brown leaves, that is definitely a rebuilding year, if not, an upper end Big Ten team(in an admittedly down year for the conference).

I don't think that will be our starting 5. I think it will be

pg-Smith
sg-Harris
sf-Abram
pf-Petway
c-pusa sims

AND WHY IS IT THAT EVERY MESSAGE BOARD I GO TO EVERYONE CALLS LESTER ABRAM - ABRAMS? Why add an s? I'm going to start calling #3 from Michigan State Shannon Browns. [smilie=banghead.gi:

And Tre, I'm not really sure what your post was all about. Are you ripping me for asking you a couple of questions? For saying we aren't playing second fiddle? Remember Michigan finished with the exact same Big Ten record as Michigan State and split the season series.

I'm not saying Amaker is the greatest coach in the world, or the worst. There are some things I like (recruiting, his class) and some things I hate (his offense, lack of game adjustments). I just think he's doing a decent job. I just hope things keep heading in the right direction.

Smith
Harris
Abrams
Sims
Sims

Not a team that scares me, now with Coleman instead of Abrams that is flat out horrid.

MSU '06-07

Nietzel/Walton
Brown/Dahlman/Joseph
Morgan/Dahlman
Gray/Suton
Naymick/Ibok/Herzog

That team should be deeper, and more flexible than the current one. Now, if Brown leaves, that is definitely a rebuilding year, if not, an upper end Big Ten team(in an admittedly down year for the conference).

I don't think that will be our starting 5. I think it will be

pg-Smith
sg-Harris
sf-Abram
pf-Petway
c-pusa sims

AND WHY IS IT THAT EVERY MESSAGE BOARD I GO TO EVERYONE CALLS LESTER ABRAM - ABRAMS? Why add an s? I'm going to start calling #3 from Michigan State Shannon Browns. [smilie=banghead.gi:

And Tre, I'm not really sure what your post was all about. Are you ripping me for asking you a couple of questions? For saying we aren't playing second fiddle? Remember Michigan finished with the exact same Big Ten record as Michigan State and split the season series.

I'm not saying Amaker is the greatest coach in the world, or the worst. There are some things I like (recruiting, his class) and some things I hate (his offense, lack of game adjustments). I just think he's doing a decent job. I just hope things keep heading in the right direction.

If DeShawn Sims is 1/100th what he is supposed to be, he'll be starting over Petway in no time. Petway can block, and dunk, he can't shoot, D up, or anything else.

It's interesting, I posted something in another thread that fit perfectly here.

My opinion on the lineup next year is that Harris will actually be the starting PG. I'm sure he'll play more minutes at SG, but I have a feeling he'll be the starter at point. When Smith comes in he'll move to SG.
The starting SG will be either Abram or Coleman, and Abram for sure will get some minutes at SF. Sheppard will get some run at 2/3 as well.
I think DeShawn will actually start at the 3. I'm quite likely going to be wrong on that one, but it's a hunch. I think they could do well by trying to establish a size advantage early in games. I put Petway at the 4 and Courtney at the 5 to start.
When the first big man gets his 2nd foul, everyone shifts up a spot and a small guy comes in off the bench.
With any luck Kendrick Price will have put some weight on this season. Even if he doesn't, 6'8" is still 6'8" and he'll see time out of necessity.
K'Len Morris should also contribute at 2/3.
Amaker and staff are still trying to land some height from the class of 2006. Whether they do or not, reports are that Josh Southern is giving them a lot more consideration these days.

Well, no tourney (again), and I must say I agree. Michigan did not deserve a NCAA bid this year. The injuries down the stretch hurt, but the bottom line is this team choked in 2 VERY WINNABLE games to lock up a bid. They lack the heart and the mental toughness of a quality team. I hope they refuse a bid to the NIT. What's the point? The program should be past the NIT by now. If they do go, I hope they lose really early to inspire some sort of a change.

Ed Martin, Chris Webber, and Co. [smilie=faeuste_bal: and their ghosts are still haunting the Michigan program. I don't see things turning around any time soon either.

One more thing, Steve Fisher is in the NCAA Tournament and Michigan is not. Is that fair?

While I agree that Michigan killed themselves down the stretch, the last 4 teams in ahead of them are jokes. Don't punish Michigan for wins over Illinois, State, Wisconsin just because they're in the conference.

What does the program need to do in the future to get into the tourney?

#1 - Schedule more games. The NCAA doesn't give a crap how you get there, but you have to have the wins. Bottom line is a buch of teams played 5 or 6 more games in non-conference play that padded their win totals. Michigan needs to pad their schedule to come into league play with 13 or 14 wins and 3 or 4 losses.

#2 - Schedule some of those games against teams with name recognition. The annual tilts against Notre Dame and UCLA, along with the Big Ten/ACC challenge opponent are a start, but can't be the only thing happening. Add another Big East name - like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, or Georgetown, an SEC team - like Alabama, Arkansas or Vanderbilt, and a high end Conference USA team - either Memphis or UAB. By doing that, you have games that can be competitve, maybe you win, maybe you don't, but at least your schedule dopesn't read like a list of schools nobody has heard of. Even in a down year, people will give you a little respect for playing Georgetown, Alabama and Memphis. It's not the same as scheduling Texas, UConn and Kentucky, but it's a start in the right direction.

#3 - Assume you have to be above .500 in your last 10 games and never, EVER, listen to anyone that says you're already in the tourney when you still have games to play.

#4 - Show up for the damn Big Ten tournament.

If Michigan could pay heed to these suggestions, they could start putting together respectable 20 win seasons and at least start playing in the 8/9 games with a chance to advance to the 2nd round.

Again, that's not the ultimate goal - of course - but it's a big step from where the team has been.

By the way, Michigan is a #1 seed in the NIT with a first round bye. They play the winner of UTEP v. Lipscomb (can't say I've ever heard of them), and then would play the winner of Notre Dame v Vanderbilt.
The other top seeds are Maryland, Louisville and Cincinnati. Not that anyone cares. Though a 5 game win streak and another also-ran banner would be better than nothing.

Last time we played in the NIT we won it all and had 23 wins the next season building on it. Unfortunately, we were under postseason ban and couldn't play in the Big Dance even though we would have been there.

As for ther program. Yes, there will be some dropoff next year, but not as much as State will have. And considerring both teams went 8-8 in the conference, State fans should guard themselves. Your feelings that you're "elite" need a couple tourney wins or else I'll be the one finding imaginary articles in the Free Press above a fall from (fill in the blank).

We should guard ourselves? Are you kidding? I wasn't going to talk trash about Michigan not making it, but you are just asking for it. Why do we have to guard ourselves? We're in the tournament! We will be next year as well if you really want to already play the "next year" card. Michigan finally had seniors, experience, and depth. They finally beat Michigan State. EVERYTHING was set up for a tourney appearance and they blew it yet again. Every year for the last decade, I've had to hear about "next year." I've got news for ya, next year will be the same as the past 7,8,9 years.

You asked, What does Michigan have to do to make the tourney in the future? How about win more than 2 of your last 9 games! Are you really questioning why they didn't get in?

Like I said, I wasn't going to talk trash. But, this is a joke. I can't believe I come to the Michigan board and see a Michigan fan putting expectations on MSU and talking trash! We don't HAVE TO do anything. We are coming off a Final Four.

And if MSU fails to meet expectations and loses in round 1 or 2, they'll just be in the same boat as Michigan Football.

next year Blue next year [smilie=hahaha.gif] [smilie=applause.gi:

Are you really questioning why they didn't get in?


No, I'm not dumbass. Re-read my post.


I agree that Michigan killed themselves down the stretch

Feel a little stupid yet?

Now for the best part:


And if MSU fails to meet expectations and loses in round 1 or 2, they'll just be in the same boat as Michigan Football.


I'm sure you'll say I'm putting words in your mouth here, but I've been waiting for this. I've been saying the two were in the same boat all along and you've held fast that State hoops was elite and Michigan football wasn't. Well, you sure as hell better hope State doesn't blow it in their cakewalk bracket (yes, if they get to the Sweet 16 it's not a cakewalk, but everything before that is) or else you've said they're in the same boat. Guess that means they won't be elite anymore, doesn't it?

I cannot wait until next season and the start of the Jerret Smith era in Ann Arbor. [smilie=applause.gi:

I'm sure you'll say I'm putting words in your mouth here, but I've been waiting for this. I've been saying the two were in the same boat all along and you've held fast that State hoops was elite and Michigan football wasn't. Well, you sure as hell better hope State doesn't blow it in their cakewalk bracket (yes, if they get to the Sweet 16 it's not a cakewalk, but everything before that is) or else you've said they're in the same boat. Guess that means they won't be elite anymore, doesn't it?

You are obsessed with the "Elite" topic. I never brought up the Elite topic. When I said Michigan State would be in the same boat as Michigan Football, I was talking about this year.

North Carolina is going to be a cake walk? whoa

I think it's funny that all the Michigan fans here were all confident and mouthy after the gift game in Ann Arbor. Now you're calling them heartless, mental midgets, etc.

Enjoy the NIT. [smilie=applause.gi:

I'm sure you'll say I'm putting words in your mouth here, but I've been waiting for this. I've been saying the two were in the same boat all along and you've held fast that State hoops was elite and Michigan football wasn't. Well, you sure as hell better hope State doesn't blow it in their cakewalk bracket (yes, if they get to the Sweet 16 it's not a cakewalk, but everything before that is) or else you've said they're in the same boat. Guess that means they won't be elite anymore, doesn't it?

You are obsessed with the "Elite" topic. I never brought up the Elite topic. When I said Michigan State would be in the same boat as Michigan Football, I was talking about this year.

North Carolina is going to be a cake walk? whoa

Ok, first of all, say what you want about talking about this year, but when you fail this year it will mean you have one Final Four in 5 years and 3 complete failures, finishing out of the top 25 AGAIN.

Michigan finished out of the top 25 for the FIRST TIME in almost 2 decades and they're at a lower status? Load of crap.

Also....


North Carolina is going to be a cake walk? whoa


I LOVE OUR SEED, REGION, SITUATION! Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to get ahead of myself. But, I like our chances alot. I like GM in the first round. And I love UNC in the 2nd round. I think we'd matchup well and the experience factor is huge like Jack said.

In addition, if you really want to look ahead...Tennessee as a #2 seed? I'll take that 2 seed. The only thing that does suck is UConn being in the same region. But, Illinois could upset them and so could Kentucky.

I'm really excited! [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi:

[smilie=applause.gi:

Doesn't sound like you're taking them much more seriously than I am.

I'm excited because we could have had somebody like Gonzaga as the 3 seed to face. And I like the matchup. Doesn't mean it will be a cake walk or anything remotely close to one.

Ok, first of all, say what you want about talking about this year, but when you fail this year it will mean you have one Final Four in 5 years and 3 complete failures, finishing out of the top 25 AGAIN.

97-98 Sweet 16 (BT Champions)
98-99 Final Four
99-00 National Champions
00-01 Final Four
01-02 Tournament (everybody left, 3 frosh starters, no expectations)
02-03 Elite 8
03-04 Terrible year, did not live up to expectations
04-05 Final Four
05-06 ????

I see one disappointing year there. What are you talking about? Keep questioning our status. We'll keep putting up banners.

How can you set expectations?

A team that goes to the Final Four 3 straight years and wins an actual championship one of those years can't recruit well enough and keep enough guys around to be expected to do more than bow out in the first round? Oh, there were certainly expectations, but you choose to write that year off with excuses, especially given how hyped that freshamn class was. Bottom line - we saw from them what we could expect for the most part.

But the bottom line is, you finished both of those seasons ranked outside of the top 25, and yet Michigan remained in the top 25 longer than any other active school, and they drop out for the first time and they can't afford it?


HYP


OC


RA


CY


It's ok though, because Michigan actually had one rough recruiting class, you know, and Braylon and Baas left. No more Marlin Jackson or Ernest Shazor either. Oh wait, it sounds like I'm making excuses, just like it would if I said three starting freshmen and no expectations. But no, for Michigan there WAS expectations, JUST LIKE THERE ALWAYS IS FOR ELITE TEAMS!. You claim Michigan isn't elite because they don't live up to expectations, yet the media continually puts them in the top 15 at the start of every season. Why do you think that is? Could it be, perhaps, because they're elite and everyone knows elite teams bounce back after bad years? That's the argument you're trying to make with you boys, isn't it? That after one bad year they went to the Elite 8, then came back after another and went to the final four? It doesn't change the fact that there were bad years. Michigan can't change last year, but they can and will come back. How they do against one or two particular teams doesn't mean they aren't elite. Ohio State was still an elite team when Michigan owned them for 11 years.

Also....


North Carolina is going to be a cake walk? whoa


I LOVE OUR SEED, REGION, SITUATION! Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to get ahead of myself. But, I like our chances alot. I like GM in the first round. And I love UNC in the 2nd round. I think we'd matchup well and the experience factor is huge like Jack said.

In addition, if you really want to look ahead...Tennessee as a #2 seed? I'll take that 2 seed. The only thing that does suck is UConn being in the same region. But, Illinois could upset them and so could Kentucky.

I'm really excited! [smilie=applause.gi: [smilie=applause.gi:

[smilie=applause.gi:

Doesn't sound like you're taking them much more seriously than I am.

BUSTED.

And Tre, you keep hyping these tourney runs, which are good, but why can't State win championships anymore? 0 National Championships, 0 Big Ten titles, 0 Big Ten tournament titles since 2000. State has not won a championship since your were a little cat running around working at the parks and in your sophomore year at SVSU. Long time huh?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on deep tourney runs, very tight, but honestly I've expected more championships out of Michgan State in recent years.....more than 0. If Michigan had not won the Big Ten in football in 6 years, I'd be pissed.

First let me respond to Jethro. Dude, you need to stop making stuff up. A few days ago you said that State fans were calling Neitzel the next Magic or Skiles. Completely untrue. Now, you are making the claim that MSU had huge expectations after they lost the remaining Flintstones, Andre in the middle, Jason Richardson, and Zach Randolph. Completely wrong again. If you don’t remember, don’t make stuff up. Wait a minute! You were in freaking Utah that year! I’m pretty sure the media in Utah wasn’t covering MSU’s expectations. Nobody expected anything from State that year and that includes the National media. So tell me again how many bad years we’ve had in the last 7. 1 out of 7 years are disappointing? I’ll take that.

Losing a couple great players on a football team is much different than losing half your team to graduation and the NBA. You’ve got 40+ players on a football team. Losing 5-6 guys on a 12-14 roster bball team is much more significant and you know it.

Now on to Moodini’s post. Busted? I love having to explain the same thing twice for UM fans. I can be thrilled with seeding, matchups, etc.. That doesn’t mean it will be easy. I was thrilled last year because I liked our matchups. Was it easy beating UK and Duke?

I’m sorry Moodini, but I’m not interested in debating your use of the word “championship” anymore. It is so old, tired, lame, and exhausting. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Year after year you are in front of your TV watching “The Road to the Final Four,” watching Tom Izzo and the Spartans cut down a net, put on their non-championship shirts, hoist the trophy they get for a non-championship on National Television. You tell me, do you think I’m pissed or suffering?

Say all you want about the use of the word, “championship.” I know that every March you sit in front of your TV disgusted as the Spartans cut down another net, hoist another trophy, and put up another banner. Choosing to not use the word "championship" doesn't change anything.

Apparantly they give trophies, hats, shirts, etc. with the word Champions on it in the NCAA even when you didn't win a "Championship."

http://spln.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1951020nm.jpg

http://spln.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1950290reg.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.scrantontimestribune.com/stories/mcnamara/syracuse%2520wins/images/FINAL_FOUR_NUA155_580566908042003.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.scrantontimestribune.com/stories/mcnamara/syracuse%2520wins/pages/FINAL_FOUR_NUA155_580566908042003.htm&h=450&w=279&sz=35&tbnid=7Uga9e-tSRFSIM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=76&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3DAnthony%2BFinal%2BFour%2BTrophy%26svn um%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3DYes, this is the Regional Champions trophy, not the NC trophy that looks very similar.

What were saying about 0 Championships Moodini? [smilie=applause.gi:

So because I was in Utah I can't see what's on ESPN.com? Wow, what rock were you living under?

Let me tell you a little bit about Utah. Do they have football, hockey or baseball? No, not any major league team in any of them.

Utah only talks hoops - the Jazz and the Utes. I've seen the hotel Majerus lived in. I went to school with Van Horn, Mottola, Andre Miller and Michael Doleac (a different year than the one in question). Bottom line, the state is pretty much isolated to basketball, so I followed basketball VERY closely.

And you're saying people need to shut up if they don't know what they're talking about? Wow.

Now, for what I apparently don't know anything about. Do you remember what you were ranked in the preseason polls that year?
#15 by the AP
#12 by ESPN/USA Today
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankingsindex?pollId=null&weekNumber=1&seasonYear=2002
No expectations, huh?

STFU!

You might have been able to check ESPN.com. But, you weren't listening to local talk shows around here. You weren't reading the newspapers. I think I would know a little more about MSU's expectations than a UM fan living in Utah that had little reason to follow them that year.

I already pointed out the fact that they were ranked in the preseason polls. That preseason ranking was out of respect and everyone knows it. Michigan State was coming off 3 STRAIGHT FINAL FOURS! Of course they were going to rank them. They had to out of respect.

Let's break down what you are saying though. You are making the claim that after going to 3 Straight Final Fours and winning a National Title, MSU was a big disappointment only making it to the tourney with 3 freshman starters the next year.

Even if I gave you that year that would only be 2 bad seasons and 5 great ones. Keep trying

I have never seen anyone hoist a trophy after advancing to the Final Four. Did I miss something?

Also, most "elite" teams don't cut down the nets after advancing to the Final Four because "there is still more work to be done". But apparently, that's where the Spartans call it good and hang it up.

I have never seen anyone hoist a trophy after advancing to the Final Four. Did I miss something?

Also, most "elite" teams don't cut down the nets after advancing to the Final Four because "there is still more work to be done". But apparently, that's where the Spartans call it good and hang it up.

You're right, we're wrong.

Michigan hoisting that NIT trophy a few years back meant a lot more than MSU cutting down the Final Four nets en route to winning a Regional Championship.

Since it's all about "hoisting a trophy".

And please name all the of teams that haven't cut down the nets after advancing to the Final Four.

I heard John Wooden on the radio the other day criticizing teams that hang banners for making it to the Final Four. I wanted to tape it so I could play it back or post it here as an audio link. He said he never hung a Final Four banner because it meant you were settling for less than a championship. I love John Wooden. Of course, he hung 10 banners in 12 years.

I heard John Wooden on the radio the other day criticizing teams that hang banners for making it to the Final Four. I wanted to tape it so I could play it back or post it here as an audio link. He said he never hung a Final Four banner because it meant you were settling for less than a championship. I love John Wooden. Of course, he hung 10 banners in 12 years.

LMAO.

That's easy for John Wooden to say, the Wiz won 38 straight NCAA tourney games and SEVEN fucking NCAA titles in a row.

Times (and parity) have changed d-r-a-m-a-t-i-c-a-l-l-y.

As lofty as we would prefer them to be...expectations have to be "somewhat" realistic as well.

Of course times have changed, but think about it, would you be happy if the Pistons finished the season this year simply as division, or conference champions again? I hope not. Anything less than an NBA championship is a disappointment, right? So why hang banners up to commemorate a disappointment?
The only thing a Final Four banner says to me is that the team didn't expect they could win it all, so they're celebrating getting farther than they thought they would. And that's fine, but let's accept it for what it is and not more.

Of course times have changed, but think about it, would you be happy if the Pistons finished the season this year simply as division, or conference champions again? I hope not. Anything less than an NBA championship is a disappointment, right? So why hang banners up to commemorate a disappointment?

The only thing a Final Four banner says to me is that the team didn't expect they could win it all, so they're celebrating getting farther than they thought they would. And that's fine, but let's accept it for what it is and not more.

I hope that I don't need to remind you that in the NBA it's a best of seven games playoff format with homecourt advantages. The better team is encouraged and supposed to win and advance. Comparing that to a Field of 65, neutral court, single elimination playoff format is pointless and completely non-sensical.

The cathartic effect of the NCAA Tournament (and the national attention and scrutiny that it receives) is unlike ANY other is sport...which is why it is celebrated and revered unlike any other sport's playoff.

But I understand your confusion though. It's been quite some time since you've witnessed UM playing in the Final Four and you comparing it to a best of seven format just further shows that you just don't fully grasp the grandeur and accomplishment of it all.

At least you have an excuse....of ignorance. [smilie=antlers.gif]

Jethro- How many teams have won it twice in the past 10, 15, 20 years?

10 is Kentucky(96, 98) and UConn.

20 you just add Duke I believe.

So in the past 20 years there are 3 teams that have any reason to say 'business ain't finished'.

Also the past 3 years I remember EVERY SINGLE TEAM that got a final 4 trip CUTTING DOWN THE NETS.

UNC, Illlinois, MSU, etc.

Jethro sounds like a fan of a program that hasn't been invited to the dance in nearly a decade. [smilie=drummer.gif]

It's only natural to minimize that which you cannot enjoy.

Exactly! That's what Jethro and Moodini try to do. They are so damn jealous of Michigan State's success, that they have to downplay Final Fours and turn them into a negative! It's unbelievable.

News flash for ya Moodini, EVERY team that wins their Regional Final cuts down the nets. I've only heard of one occation when the team didn't cut them down. Here are a few pics for ya. According to your statement, Duke, North Carolina, and Illinois are all NOT ELITE because these nets were cut down after their Regional FINALS.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/stewart_mandel/03/13/tourney.forecast/p1_weber-ap.jpg

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/_photos/2005-07-15-roywilliams.jpg

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/ncb/2000/0312/photo/at_k.jpg

http://www.mppa.org/mppa/2001/MPOY/MPOY2/pictures/01%20IZZOS%20NET.jpg

NIT>NCAA

Michigan fans rip State for cutting down nets after their Regional Final. State fan posts picture of Michigan cutting down the net after winning the NIT. Michigan fans feel stupid. State fans laugh.
http://www.mlive.com/images/wolverines/l_040402_nitfinal_robinson_net.jpg

Michigan fans rip State for cutting down nets after their Regional Final. State fan posts picture of Michigan cutting down the net after winning the NIT. Michigan fans feel stupid. State fans laugh.
http://www.mlive.com/images/wolverines/l_040402_nitfinal_robinson_net.jpg

False.

Cool moment from the NIT last night. Yeah, I know it's the NIT and probably means less than a preseason WNBA game, but it was really cool to see.

http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/883/F156906.jpg
Nope, not Petway's dunk. (But that WAS freaking sick!)

After the game at the Garden, the Wolverines were walking into the tunnel and headed to the locker room and were greeted by former Fab Fiver Jalen Rose, who now plays for the Knicks. He gave a dap and a big hug to Tommy Amaker and the Wolverine players. It was good to see that Jalen has love for Michigan and cares about the program. Maybe Jalen and some of the old school cats will come around and help out the program in some way. Very cool to see.

False? What part of that was false? You aren't embarrassed by your team playing in the NIT again? If you aren't embarrassed about the NIT and if you have even a hint of excitement about winning it, it's really sad.

I think we went through this a couple of years ago when a few guys I know were bragging about winning the NIT. I won't mention any names, but a few others here on WTF were hyping the fact that they "raised a banner." They said that the NIT was going to jump start the program and help recruiting. Here we are a few years later and Michigan is in the same place.[smilie=hahaha.gif] It's sad, it really is.

There isn't a bowl for the 67th and 66th best team in college football, so I'll use the Motor City Bowl as a comparison. Imagine if State fans had an ounce of excitement about being in the Motor City Bowl.

Tre, while I will agree with you that the NIT isn't as exciting as the Big Dance I am going to make an analogy and I want you to tell me how you feel about it. By going to the NIT and winning Michgan earns extra practice time for its young players (especially Kendrick Price and Jevohn Shepherd). This time working with Daniel Horton, Chris Hunter and Graham Brown can only be valuable for these guys. As a Michgan fan there is dissapointment that we didn't make the Big Dance, but should we just sit here and not watch the game and no get excited.

Here comes the real analogy. If State's football team last year would've made some whack-ass bowl would you not have been excited. Would it not have been a good thing for Javon Ringer to get another 3 weeks of practice or whatever it may be. Would you have not watched the bowl game and not rooted for State to win? Do you only watch Michigan State bowl games that are on New Years Day?

Where's the NIT Championship OGT?

Ok, first of all, everyone can lat the crap off the NIT. Of course it's the "also-ran" tournament, but are you really going to give people crap for caring? Sorry, maybe Michigan fans are excited that we might end the season with a win. That's actually a good thing. And since there are only 6 college teams playing right now, the exposure is better than what you're getting. In some cases, it really is better for a program to win the NIT instead of lose in the first round on the NCAA. I know you'll never buy that, but let's put it this way. By being in the NIT, Michigan was able to bring in, and impress, a few recruits. Had they gone to the NCAA's and lost in the first round, that wouldn't have impressed any recruits or given any chance for game visits.
It's still worthwhile to have your team fight until the end to prove they were the best team to get left out.

I agree with your post Filly. I agree that it is good to have extra practice time. A few years ago when you guys were hypin' the NIT, that is the one part about it that I agreed with. It is good for practice. But, Amaker sucks as a coach. Therefore, what did that extra practice do for those guys? If they would have used the time to greatly improve and make the tourney the following year, than I totally think it's worth it. One thing to keep in mind is, teams are allowed to do some things when their season is over. For instance, MSU is currently lifting 4 days a week and playing together as well.

In regards to State making a whack ass bowl, no I wouldn't be excited. Even though State has sucked and hasn't been to a bowl in two years, I can't lower my expectations. I'm sorry, but I want to see a New Year's Day Bowl. I wouldn't be excited about the Motor City, I would be just as embarrassed because it sucks. I would watch, as should you as a fan. But, I would not be excited one bit.

I'm not saying the NIT doesn't have any benefits. I'm just saying fans of that team shouldn't be chirping about it. Fans here really haven't, but I've heard plenty outside of WTF. So this is probably the wrong forum for my comments.

Ok, first of all, everyone can lat the crap off the NIT. Of course it's the "also-ran" tournament, but are you really going to give people crap for caring? Sorry, maybe Michigan fans are excited that we might end the season with a win. That's actually a good thing. And since there are only 6 college teams playing right now, the exposure is better than what you're getting. In some cases, it really is better for a program to win the NIT instead of lose in the first round on the NCAA. I know you'll never buy that, but let's put it this way. By being in the NIT, Michigan was able to bring in, and impress, a few recruits. Had they gone to the NCAA's and lost in the first round, that wouldn't have impressed any recruits or given any chance for game visits.
It's still worthwhile to have your team fight until the end to prove they were the best team to get left out.

Okay, now I'll respond to the ignorant post regarding the NIT. Jethro, you are my boy but you are full of shit right now. You are the guy that claims that NOTHING matters except the National Championship. You even make the claim that Big Ten Titles mean nothing. Yet, you'll come on here and make the claim that the fucking NIT is meaningful. You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your bias is at an all time high. I tell you what would have impressed recruits, MAKING THE BIG DANCE. I don't care if Michigan lost their first game. For one week all the newspapers throughout the State would have been talking about how Michigan is on the rise, how Michigan finally made the tournament, and how Michigan has a bright future. Do you really think that some stud high school baller is impressed with a team playing in the NIT?! If I'm a recruit, and the school recruiting me hasn't been to the tourney in a decade, I'm saying thanks for the attention and I'm looking elsewhere.

If the NIT means so much to recruits, than where are all the stud recruits that Michigan gained from the last time they won it????????!!!!!!!! You're losing all credibilty Jethro. One day you are posting about how you won't lower your standards and nothing but a NC makes you happy. The next day you are hyping the most lame, pointless, tournament for losers in sports. What a joke.

"The only thing worse than being in the NIT is being proud of it." -Jim Rome

Thank god these fucking idiots are over with...

Damnit! We could only muster up 67th place!

Welp, my day has been ruined.

Michigan is set to receive a committment in a few hours from Udoh. This kid has been saying forever that he is going to prep school and he finally pulled the trigger and gives us a Maceo Baston "type" player down low for the future. There are also some rumblings that someone else may be committing in the near future, but for now its just rumors, but if its a certain big man transfer it would be HUGE for the maize and blue. Not often can I say this.....................but stay tuned boys.

P.S. Mood or whoever, anyone that has access to the fort gimme some details here to fill my day with!

Here ya go Filly-

The appeal is evident – a great school and a team laced with upperclassmen who plan to win next year, followed by potential playing time the following year. It's the reason why Michigan has become a potential next step for a number of transfer prospects, including one big one.

Eric Boateng from Middletown (Del.) St. Andrew's School, finished as the number 82 player overall in the class of 2005 and signed with Duke, spending most of his freshman year on the bench before declaring he'd transfer. Boateng, 6-11 and 255 pounds, has already visited Arizona State and reportedly enjoyed his visit. He plans to visit U-M (this weekend), George Washington and Notre Dame before deciding.


Rivals.com

Eric Boateng
Boateng, a McDonald's All-American originally from England, is better defensively than offensively. He played in 20 games last season for the Blue Devils and averaged 0.7 points and 0.6 rebounds in 2.5 minutes per game.

Meanwhile, still more buzz about Rutgers big man Zach Gibson, former teammate of U-M signee K'len Morris. It's likely Eastern Michigan or Michigan for Gibson depending on what happens with Boateng … Gibson played in 10 games for Rutgers a year ago but showed flashes of his potential.

Finally, Iowa State's Farnold Degand, a 6-3 point guard, could be a Wolverine. He told GoCyclones.com Michigan, Massachusetts, Notre Dame and Rutgers were after him after he announced his intentions to leave ISU. He redshirted for the Cyclones last year.

"Those are great environments and really prestigious schools," Degand said. "You graduate from those schools and your diploma has a little more oomph to it.

"The lure to play in the Big Ten (at Michigan) is big, though there would have to be something special about those schools to make me consider them more than those East Coast schools. The Big East was a major part of college basketball for me growing up."

Degand, slated to be the starter at Iowa State next year, is an excellent ballhandler and floor general. He was only 16 years old when he graduated high school after averaging 17.3 points, 8.0 rebounds and 5.1 assists as a senior. He was a Boston City All-Star and a Boston Globe and Boston Herald All-Scholastic team member, was a 1,000-point scorer in his career and played AAU basketball for Leo Papile's BABC squad, Courtney Sims' former team.

"They are real interested," Degand said of Michigan. "The situation looks great for me - the possibly to play a lot if I do what I have to do."

Watch for more on these potential developments in the days to come ...

geez Mood, I could've read the free stuff, I wanted the "super inside info"

dank, my bad, I guess I thought it was an "insider article" but if it was, I guess I should have posted it in Area 51. I've gone crosseyed.....

Udoh is nice, fills a need for size. They still need to get another big though. If not Boateng, then they need to focus on staying in it with Josh Southern. I know some people keep hating on him, but he's improved his game every single season and he can do the dirty work Graham Brown did with more offense.

Michigan basketball really sucks and is going to for a long time. What else can you say? Can we lock this thread Jethro, Tre?

NO! As long as the NIT exists this thread will THRIVE!

Moodini, I think I warned ya to stay away from the Sparty football optimism pipe in like November. You should've taken my advice. But I guess I"m not the one to give advice, it's taken me 25 years before I learned not to pick that pipe up anymore. haha

Lunardi has his mega-early 2007 Bracketology up and he has Michigan as a 9 seed right now (State is an 8 seed). It's been up since June 21, but I didn't see it until today when I was reading the NCAA Summer Session. They're featuring the Big 12 right now, not sure how long until they cover the Big Ten.

Lunardi has his mega-early 2007 Bracketology up and he has Michigan as a 9 seed right now (State is an 8 seed). It's been up since June 21, but I didn't see it until today when I was reading the NCAA Summer Session. They're featuring the Big 12 right now, not sure how long until they cover the Big Ten.

I found out when they will cover the Big Ten as part of their summer session - in 4 weeks. They are currently in Week 1, which covers the Big 12, the Northeast, the Atlantic Sun (sounds like a WNBA team) and the Colonial. We don't see the Big Ten until week 5.

Lunardi has his mega-early 2007 Bracketology up and he has Michigan as a 9 seed right now (State is an 8 seed). It's been up since June 21, but I didn't see it until today when I was reading the NCAA Summer Session. They're featuring the Big 12 right now, not sure how long until they cover the Big Ten.

I have confidence that the Spartans will make the tourney, but I must say that I didn't expect any national credit before anyone even takes the floor. Figured on most pundits leaving MSU on the scrap heap w/ Shannon leaving.

Lunardi has his mega-early 2007 Bracketology up and he has Michigan as a 9 seed right now (State is an 8 seed). It's been up since June 21, but I didn't see it until today when I was reading the NCAA Summer Session. They're featuring the Big 12 right now, not sure how long until they cover the Big Ten.

I have confidence that the Spartans will make the tourney, but I must say that I didn't expect any national credit before anyone even takes the floor. Figured on most pundits leaving MSU on the scrap heap w/ Shannon leaving.


I agree on both points. I thought they would make the tourney, but didn't expect anyone in the media to think so, especially bracket guru Mr. Lunardi...

Amaker, Big Ten Decide 11-Man Foreign Tour Roster



PARK RIDGE, Ill. -- The Big Ten Conference, along with University of Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker, has announced the 11-man Big Ten Foreign Tour Team roster, which will travel through Australia, Aug. 8-18. The touring team is tentatively scheduled to play a four-game exhibition schedule against top teams from Sydney and Brisbane, Australia.

"We look forward to getting everyone together in training camp and then taking our group to Australia," said Amaker. "It is truly an honor to participate, and we all look forward to representing the Big Ten Conference abroad."

The Wolverines will have two representatives on the 2006 squad as fifth-year senior Lester Abram (Pontiac, Mich./Pontiac Northern HS) and sophomore Jerret Smith (Romulus, Mich./Romulus HS) will travel to Australia. Abram, who returns for a fifth year after being granted a medical hardship, averaged 10.0 points, 3.3 rebounds and 1.0 steals in 26.2 minutes per game last season. In his first season with the Maize and Blue, Smith played in 27 games with two starts. He averaged 2.4 points, 1.2 rebounds and 2.1 assists in 14.5 minutes per game as a freshman.

Joining Abram and Smith on the tour will be: Illinois forward Marcus Arnold, Indiana guard Roderick Wilmont, Iowa center Seth Gorney, Michigan State guard Travis Walton, Minnesota center Jon Williams, Northwestern forward Tim Doyle, Ohio State guard Ron Lewis, Penn State guard Michael Walker and Purdue forward Gordon Watt. Wisconsin will not have a representative on the 2006 squad.

All 11 members of the Big Ten Touring team will gather in Ann Arbor, Mich., Friday through Monday (Aug. 4-7) for a four-day training camp at Crisler Arena before departing for Australia.

The Big Ten Foreign Tours have given more than 292 student-athletes the opportunity to travel abroad, as the men have toured such places as Spain, Japan, France, Italy, Finland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, England and Ireland. In 13 years, the men's teams have posted a 51-34 record.



Is it really wise to take Abrams? He'll be wounded already for the start of the season. Maybe the idea is to injure him earlier than normal so he comes back from his rehab in the middle of the Big Ten season for that stretch run the Wolverines usually struggle with.

By the way, he may officially qualify as the best player ever to be on one of these teams. If I remember, this is usually a trip that the Amadu Ba's of the world go on - the guys that NEVER see the floor but are on scholarship.

TRAVIS!

Amaker, Big Ten Decide 11-Man Foreign Tour Roster



PARK RIDGE, Ill. -- The Big Ten Conference, along with University of Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker, has announced the 11-man Big Ten Foreign Tour Team roster, which will travel through Australia, Aug. 8-18. The touring team is tentatively scheduled to play a four-game exhibition schedule against top teams from Sydney and Brisbane, Australia.

"We look forward to getting everyone together in training camp and then taking our group to Australia," said Amaker. "It is truly an honor to participate, and we all look forward to representing the Big Ten Conference abroad."

The Wolverines will have two representatives on the 2006 squad as fifth-year senior Lester Abram (Pontiac, Mich./Pontiac Northern HS) and sophomore Jerret Smith (Romulus, Mich./Romulus HS) will travel to Australia. Abram, who returns for a fifth year after being granted a medical hardship, averaged 10.0 points, 3.3 rebounds and 1.0 steals in 26.2 minutes per game last season. In his first season with the Maize and Blue, Smith played in 27 games with two starts. He averaged 2.4 points, 1.2 rebounds and 2.1 assists in 14.5 minutes per game as a freshman.

Joining Abram and Smith on the tour will be: Illinois forward Marcus Arnold, Indiana guard Roderick Wilmont, Iowa center Seth Gorney, Michigan State guard Travis Walton, Minnesota center Jon Williams, Northwestern forward Tim Doyle, Ohio State guard Ron Lewis, Penn State guard Michael Walker and Purdue forward Gordon Watt. Wisconsin will not have a representative on the 2006 squad.

All 11 members of the Big Ten Touring team will gather in Ann Arbor, Mich., Friday through Monday (Aug. 4-7) for a four-day training camp at Crisler Arena before departing for Australia.

The Big Ten Foreign Tours have given more than 292 student-athletes the opportunity to travel abroad, as the men have toured such places as Spain, Japan, France, Italy, Finland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, England and Ireland. In 13 years, the men's teams have posted a 51-34 record.



Is it really wise to take Abrams? He'll be wounded already for the start of the season. Maybe the idea is to injure him earlier than normal so he comes back from his rehab in the middle of the Big Ten season for that stretch run the Wolverines usually struggle with.

By the way, he may officially qualify as the best player ever to be on one of these teams. If I remember, this is usually a trip that the Amadu Ba's of the world go on - the guys that NEVER see the floor but are on scholarship.

I'm kind of on the fence here too Jethro. It's good to get him some time on the court in game situations because he missed so much time, but he's about as fragile as Fred Taylor in about 2001. IMO, I'd like him to stay in AA, rehab, play in some open gyms, and get ready for the season. I'd agree that he probably is the best player ever to be on one of those teams. I remember reading in the Wolverine about Ron Coleman playing in that last year and I was like, "maybe they know something I don't".

One last thing, I hate to be the spelling Nazi, but c'mon Jethro, you gotta get our boy's name right. I don't know why, but every message board I've ever gone to, everyone adds an imaginary s to his name. It's LESTER ABRAM.

Maybe if he was on the court long enough for me to see the name on the back of the jersey I could remember the real name! Hahahaha.
Good catch Mood, sorry to let you down.

Maybe if he was on the court long enough for me to see the name on the back of the jersey I could remember the real name! Hahahaha.
Good catch Mood, sorry to let you down.

Hahahahaha. Good point Jethro. Just don't let it happen again.....LOL.

Anybody else catch Andy Katz's preseason top 50 that he's doing?
He has Michigan State at #45.








He has Michigan at #44.







15,000 Spartan fans just puked.



The same number of Michigan fans just called Katz an idiot.

The only way this caught a Spartan fan by surprise is if they are completely uninformed and have no idea of what the future holds. Everybody knows MSU will struggle to make the tourney for the first time in an eternity.

This isn't a year to try to get to another Final Four. Its a year for Neitzel to step into his scorers role, for Sutton to become a force inside, and for the freshmen to gain experience by playing serious minutes.

Spartan fans will be looking at this season like a preseason. The show starts next year.

Ok, I guess it's time to wipe the dust off this thread. It's strange. Even though most of the media is picking Michigan to be better than State this year and I'm a little hyped about Michigan's potential success in general, it's hard to get too excited when the football team is 10-0.

I still am excited about what is being built here and I'll be paying attention to the score against Central Connecticut State (I really didn't make that up). So let's hear it. What do you think about this season?

Personally I think it will be tough. 31 regular season games and a very difficult conference. I think the team will be doing well to win 20 games, to be honest. I think if they come together they could win 24 tops. They'll have to win 2 games at least in the Big Ten tourney to make it into the NCAA's and that's no easy task in this conference, but I think they can do it. I predict a 2nd round exit of the NCAA tourney. Progress to say the least. Not the ultimate goal by any means, but progress.

Key to the season: Courtney Sims. If he can find his testicles on a regular basis he'll have a big, big year and so will Michigan.

Michigan basketball means less to me than squirrel piss right now. [smilie=piss2.gif]

If they have a big season and you get hyped, Tre is going to quote that right there.

Dude, I thought John Kerry flip-flopped. You come STRONG with the flippage.

By the way, nice to see your letter to the editor in The Wolverine.

If they have a big season and you get hyped, Tre is going to quote that right there.

Dude, I thought John Kerry flip-flopped. You come STRONG with the flippage.

By the way, nice to see your letter to the editor in The Wolverine.

You bet I will! Moodini is my boy, but I am greatly disappointed in him as a fan. He has completely bailed on the sport of basketball. Are you a Michigan fan or a Michigan Football fan? The posts over the last couple of months say Moodini is a Michigan Football fan and that's it.

I've been in the frustration boat and was ready to jump off this football season. But, I just couldn't do it. I'm a Michigan State fan. I can't be fair weathered (even if the storm has gone on for 20 years of my life).

I understand that the bulk of the enthusiasm should be with the undefeated football team, however true Michigan fans should have some interest in basketball as well. It's not like you can only have interest in one thing at a time. I have been in this position before believe it or not. In 2000, Michigan State was undefeated, ranked in the Top 5, and they beat Michigan (IN FOOTBALL!). I still remember listening to National Radio and going nuts as they argued that MSU would beat FSU for the National Title. I was silly hyped. But, I was still present at Midnight Madness. And you better believe I was silly hyped about the basketball season too.

If you are a true fan, you pay attention to, get hyped about, and follow both of your school's teams. If not, I don't want to hear a peep out of fair weathered fans.

Jethro, I'll get to your analysis in a bit.

Ok, I listened to the game on the radio a bit yesterday. The first half was strong defensively for UM, a bit rough offensively.
A 20 point win over CCS isn't all that impressive. Looking at the box score and listening to the broadcast I have a ton of questions.
First, the Sims boys. They talked about Courtney being a man among boys in that game, and yet he rarely played like it. Sounds like the same old Courtney Sims. Struggled mightily passing out of the double team still. They even talked about a point where he was quadruple teamed on the block and couldn't find an open guy out of it. Rough. As for Deshawn, I really thought he would come in and be a force quickly. That hasn't happened. He's dealing with personal tragedy because his little brother was just shot and killed. It can't be easy to play a game any time soon after that. I'm not sure if that's the reason why he isn't getting much PT or not. They talked about how guys like K'Len Morris had a strong exhibition season but won't get much PT because of position depth. That shouldn't be an issue with Sims. Hopefully he's getting 20 minutes by the team we play some real competition.
By the way, I think they said last night that we play 11 teams this year that were in the tourney last year and 14 that were in the post-season (3 NIT). For a team like Michigan and the way their schedule has been criticized in the past, that's fairly impressive. They should be able to hand;e the pressure of the postseason if they make it to the NCAA's.

If they have a big season and you get hyped, Tre is going to quote that right there.

Dude, I thought John Kerry flip-flopped. You come STRONG with the flippage.

By the way, nice to see your letter to the editor in The Wolverine.

Jethro, thanks for the dap. I was pretty hyped when I saw that.

As for the flippage, it's really not that. I was just looking through the emoticons, and I saw the squirrel pissing and I was like, I need to use that one, that's hilarious! I was kind of piggybacking Jethro's post about it being hard to focus on Michigan basketball with Michigan football being 10-0 and #2.

Obviously I care a lot about Michigan basketball. I went to the Maize and Blue basketball scrimmage after the Northwestern football game. I'll go to plenty of games this year, and watch them all on TV, but I'm just reeediculously focused on football right now.

Alright Jethro, I promised a response on your outlook. I was surprised by your optimism. I don't think Michigan is very good. But, I don't think they are very bad either. Somewhere in the middle.

I've got them finishing 5th in the BT just ahead of MSU. The point guard position will hurt them. Mark my words. Not because they are going to have rampant turnovers, but because they won't have much play making. That will put a lot of pressure on Harris and LA to create their own shots. Harris can do that, but I don't know about the fragile one.

Courtney Sims is a big bitch. He will have moments this year where he will put up 20 and 10. But, he'll also have those nights when he turns over the ball 5 times and disappears.

Petway is the straight up PUSA. God threw down all the athletic ability he possibly could on this punk and the dude still can't work hard and develop something God didn't give him. I mean damn, stop the Ron Artest whack ass rapathon and get in the gym and work on your J and your handles.

He'll be an amazing dunker who will get the occational sick block because of God's gifts, but then he'll go back to his cheap shot ways when he gets frustrated realizing he has the worst fundamentals in the nation.

With that being said, I like the SG on this team a bit. Sims will get ya a few wins. Overall, (seems like I've said this for the last 3 years) this team SHOULD FIIIIIIIIIIIIIINALLY make the tourney. They should also get State twice which will make UM fans happy. But, nothing special this year.

Optimism? I picked them to go 20-11. That's not very optimistic.
Yeah, I said that if they came together they could maybe win 24, that would include a win or two in the Big Ten tourney, making it something like 24-10.
I sure hope that's not an optimistic view.

Bottom line, they should win their first 10-12 games without much concern. During those games, they should get the depth of the rotation worked out. So far they've pretty much done that, especially in their last game when the bench scored 38 I think.

By the time they hit the tough part of their schedule (2 of the last 3 games before the Big Ten schedule are against top 10 teams: UCLA and Georgetown) they should have a consistent rotation that runs about 9 deep, with some valuable subs if needed beyond that in emergency or injury. They should run and be able to wear down teams that have no depth.

I guess it all comes down to a judgement call at the end of the year though. If enough teams fall and they crawl into the top 25, they need to win enough in the Big Ten to stay there. They need to be above .500 in the Big Ten, and they CAN if they stay after it and don't make stupid mistakes.

By the way, your analysis of Petway is exactly right. Like I said, he's a slightly less talented Marquise Gray. An idiot, an a-hole, a dunker and shot blocker. Each will have a double-double or two, but neither will ever be the player they should be.

I think 24 possible wins and predicting a 2nd round NCAA loss is extremely optimistic. Especially considering how long its been since you've made the tourney.

I agree with the Gray thing, but I don't think Gray is an ahole. He plays tough, but I've never seen him throw a cheap shot elbow or anything like that.

Give him some PT and it will happen. A guy like that will get so frustrated with himself that eventually he'll do it.
Remember that you've only seen a little over 400 minutes of Gray's career. Meanwhile Petway has had the opportunity to show frustration that much times 4.
Given the PT, Gray will shop it - at least that's my prediction.