Drew Gooden rumors picking up.
Jethro likes this!

As I've said many times before, I'm not sure what people hate about this profile:
27 years old
career average of 12 and 8 in 28 mpg
6'10", 250
Stays out of foul trouble for the most part, not a big turnover risk, can shoot free throws at a 73% clip. Those are better career numbers than Bass or even Millsap, and he's taller. So because he's 3 years older and used to play for the Cavs and Bulls suddenly he's horrible?

WTF?

Jethro likes this!

As I've said many times before, I'm not sure what people hate about this profile:
27 years old
career average of 12 and 8 in 28 mpg
6'10", 250
Stays out of foul trouble for the most part, not a big turnover risk, can shoot free throws at a 73% clip. Those are better career numbers than Bass or even Millsap, and he's taller. So because he's 3 years older and used to play for the Cavs and Bulls suddenly he's horrible?

WTF?

There is more to this guy than just his stats. I personnaly don't have anything against him other than the fact that he has been on a shit load of teams and nobody has wanted to keep him. That alone should be a warning sign to stay away or at least be cautious.

Plus the hair thing. That was just fucking weird!

There is more to this guy than just his stats. I personnaly don't have anything against him other than the fact that he has been on a shit load of teams and nobody has wanted to keep him. That alone should be a warning sign to stay away or at least be cautious.
You mean like Chauncey before he got here?

You mean like Chauncey before he got here?

Except for the fact that Chauncey played pretty darn well for Minny and then another team (us) was quick to offer him a sizable contract. Gooden hasn't played well enough for anyone to offer him ANY deal. So actually they aren't the same at all.

He's fine as a backup, but there better be a 33 MPG center coming here to play in front of him/Davis/Wilcox/whoever.

i liked him coming out of kansas and i like his abilities. but i have also heard character concerns about him with other teams. what exactly that means, i have no clue. but perhaps THAT is why he's bounced around the league like he has.

i think from a talent standpoint, he MIGHT be a really good pickup. but there's more to it than that so i'd be careful.

He's not a very good defender...

He's not a very good defender...

Then I'll just wait for the press conference.

They were both misfit castaways.

Billups was signed for 6 years, $35 million. That was hardly a sizebale contract at the time. It wasn't bad, but think of it this way: that's about the current MLE.

As far as Billups succeeding in other places, he had some injury concerns, had never been a starter for a full year, he was almost 26 and had been lackluster considering he had been picked #3 overall. He was coming off a season in which he averaged 12.5 points and 5.5 assists - easily his best assist season and scoring was above his average. 4 teams in 5 years.

Gooden - Also a top 5 pick who was dealt in his rookie year. Played for 5 teams in 7 years. Actually was a full-time starter for years, so he's got Billups beat there. His problem is that his injury is more recent than Billups so it's more in the forefront of people's minds and he happens to be a free agent in a recession with his down season. Billups was coming off his best season at a strong market time, and still only got $35 mill over 6.

Rather than hating Gooden, people should be thrilled we could get someone that productive for so little.

Sure, his hair and beard choices have been horrible, but Dennis Rodman has several rings.

I still see them as dissimilar but I'm ok with it. What do you think he's worth per year?

I would offer 3 years, $7 million. He played for $1.4 mill last season so it would be a raise. See what he and his agent think about that. Maybe throw in a player option for a 4th year. I think he's worth more than that, but the team needs more than just him and they should realize nobody has money.
Possibly they want a short contract instead because they want to good season and a chance to hit them market again next season when more teams will have money. If so, that's fine, offer 1.8 - 2 million as the starting point and see where it goes.

Billups was signed for 6 years, $35 million. That was hardly a sizebale contract at the time. It wasn't bad, but think of it this way: that's about the current MLE.
It was the then MLE I think.

Gooden got worse the last couple of seasons, there is no chance he will have a career like Chauncey...there is a reason the Spurs signed Dice with the MLE, and made no effort to resign Gooden

Gooden has had a bad rep everywhere he's gone. He may put up good numbers but that's because he's got a ton of skill that he doesn't use. He's just not a smart player. If we signed him for $1.8m per season for a year or 2 as a backup, I'd be okay with that. I just don't want him starting or getting overpaid.

Remember the numbers Al Harrington put up in Atlanta. Doesn't make him a good player.

Al Harrington would be a better option than Gooden, actually.

because he can shot the 3 :p?

Al Harrington would be a better option because he can't play center. After all, that seems to be JD's plan. Right?

I do think that AH is a better player, but it's largely irrelevant since we have to have a stiff that can play C.

Harrington has indeed played center, not that you'd really want him to

Diaw played PG.

Harrington played some C for Nellieball. That doesn't count. Nellieball is pretty much 3 guards and 2 small forwards on the court half the time.

Remember all of the Darko | Harrington trade rumors back in the day?

Al Harrington would be a better option because he can't play center. After all, that seems to be JD's plan. Right?

Yeah, the game plan is 3 combo guards and 2 tweener forwards. Unstoppable.

Does anyone recall a team ever playing a 4 guard lineup?

I say we roll with Bynum, BG, Stuck, and Rip with Tay at C.

Man this is almost comical how sad we are going to be in the frontcourt. Maybe this is all a ploy to get us a big in the draft next year.

Bos, Cle, Orl, Tor, Phi, Atl, Chi, and Miami are all playoff bound. Sad that we already know that.

Drew Gooden rumors picking up.
I'd rather keep a SF there than Gooden. Never liked his game, and he's a perimeter big thats nowhere near the threat sheed was. Since he sucks on defense we'd be even in performance from one of our SF's playing PF. In fact i'm guessing most of them will put up more offense and defense in the paint.

If drew gooden is signed, and plays, it will make the worst frontcourt in the history of anything ever.

and im not even exaggerating

Honestly, I would be entirely fine with spending that cash on Marvin Williams or another QUALITY player who would at least be an asset & sign Ben or someone at the vets minimum rather than stupid Gooden. He's a knucklehead.

Honestly, I would be entirely fine with spending that cash on Marvin Williams or another QUALITY player who would at least be an asset & sign Ben or someone at the vets minimum rather than stupid Gooden. He's a knucklehead.


you aren't suggesting we could get Marvin with 1/4 what it will cost to get gooden, are you?

Does anyone recall a team ever playing a 4 guard lineup?

I say we roll with Bynum, BG, Stuck, and Rip with Tay at C.

Man this is almost comical how sad we are going to be in the frontcourt. Maybe this is all a ploy to get us a big in the draft next year.

Bos, Cle, Orl, Tor, Phi, Atl, Chi, and Miami are all playoff bound. Sad that we already know that.

But Joe is doing such a wonderful job!!!

Harrington played some C for Nellieball. That doesn't count. Nellieball is pretty much 3 guards and 2 small forwards on the court half the time.

Do you think Nellie could be available after John Q gets fired a year from now?

Do you think Nellie could be available after John Q gets fired a year from now?
old.

If we signed Williams to an offer sheet starting around $3.5 million, the Hawks would send Joe a thank-you bouquet right after they matched the offer.

Would have to be S&T.

:stein:

It's believed that the Pistons, as of Thursday, have Rasho Nesterovic and Chris Wilcox ahead of Drew Gooden as their next free-agent targets, since it appears that they can't assemble an offer sheet rich enough for Glen Davis to keep the Boston Celtics from matching.

If we have both RASHO and K-W-A-M-E, I think Stephen A's head might explode.

LOTTERY!!

lol, good lord.

Might as well reach out to Slava as well.

I would almost rather have Zach Randolph than have Rasho & Rip.

So Big Baby is saying that he'll hold out of training camp because of his contract situation.

I wonder if he is trying to force a S&T?

Without looking it up I'm guessing the 2010 Draft is supposed to be full of quality big men?

It's believed that the Pistons, as of Thursday, have Rasho Nesterovic and Chris Wilcox ahead of Drew Gooden as their next free-agent targets, since it appears that they can't assemble an offer sheet rich enough for Glen Davis to keep the Boston Celtics from matching.

Rasho, Wilcox, Gooden... is Big Ben still a name floated for us?

All those guys are gonna get more than the minimum?

In this market?

How about we get Ben and Rasho for the minimum (doesn't hurt our space) and then sign Wilcox or Gooden with our cap room?

It's not shit hot but at least we'd have some big bodies to help defend the paint and hold it down until we can draft someone to be the man in the middle.

Kwame/Ben/Rasho
Nova/Gooden or Wilcox/Maxiell
Prince/Daye/Summers/Jonas
Rip/Gordon/Washington
Stuckey/Bynum

I'd rather just use Max as the backup PF. We're already on the hook for his $5m, might as well see if he can get back on track. If we're going to sign guys, sign guys that are Cs. If they can play some PF as well, that's a bonus, but they need to be a center first and foremost.

I'm probably alone here, but I think I'd rather have Big Baby than most of these other scrub options.

He's still young, and he really seemed to improve his game towards the end of the season/playoffs when he got KG's minutes. That mid-range jump shot was pretty consistent for him.

At least he has the potential to get better, and would have trade value if he didn't pan out.

But it would likely take a S&T to get him, something that's not probable.

i wanted Bass, i still don't understand why Dumars dumped AA after Bass was off the market, be could have offerd him 5 years...and matched at least the 4y/18 mil offer from Orlando?!

I'm probably alone here, but I think I'd rather have Big Baby than most of these other scrub options.

He's still young, and he really seemed to improve his game towards the end of the season/playoffs when he got KG's minutes. That mid-range jump shot was pretty consistent for him.

At least he has the potential to get better, and would have trade value if he didn't pan out.

But it would likely take a S&T to get him, something that's not probable.

I'm only interested in him if there is a RIP/Tay for big trade that we didn't need the cap space for. He's a solid backup, nothing more.

Pistons, Bucks, Cav's, Bobcats. Which team is the best fit for me?

That apostrophe in Cavs bothers me. Now we definitely can't sign him.

somebody call SAS and tell him we might sign nesterovic! good lord no!!!!!!!

ok i wouldn't mind him at the minimum. but no way i would even split our remaining cap room between 2 of those guys.

if so, i guess it would have to be a 1 year deal and we'd STRICTLY be filling out the roster. cause otherwise those are not guys i want sticking around for long.

as for big baby- i'm with you G. i'd rather him over all these guys but as that source says, boston will simply match any offer we put together for him. so it would have to be a sign and trade and we don't have much to offer them, frankly.

i wanted bass but he chose a better situation. we're pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel right now so i wouldn't get too excited or mad about ANYONE we sign at this stage. i just hope it's a 1 year deal if it's any of those scrubs. ok, ok. maybe they're better than scrubs. but not by much.

i keep saying over and over that our BEST shot at another upgrade on the roster is to trade rip or prince for a big. i don't get why joe is so married to them as this team is not going anywhere with them. so we should cash them in while they still have SOME value and get a legit big and/or some future cap space or young talent.

Maybe it isn't that Joe is married to them, but that other teams feel that he has to trade one of them and they're trying to swindle him. You don't make a bad trade just to make a trade. If we know we're not contending this season, you can hold out and take some lumps while you wait for the right deal to come along. I want Joe to make the trade right away, but I understand completely if it doesn't happen and we have to wait things out patiently. I'll say this was a bad offseason until the deal happens, but as long as it happens eventually it's fine. If it took until the midway point of the season and Joe traded Rip for a young C that fit what we needed, I'd still say it was a potentially good offseason.

This is not a bad off-season.

We landed Charlie V and Ben Gordon - the 2 best young free agents that were "get-able". We paid them exactly what it took to get them here.

Why did Joe chase those 2 in particular is the real debate - which I might have to start sooner rather than later (but we will get to that).

Our Draft is looking like a fucking masterstroke!

(read that last sentence again - I want it to sink in)

I'm the guy that bashes Joe's Draft record every chance I get and to get 1 player out of that "crappy" Draft would be sweet. To land possibly 3 capable players (and all could be damn good) is insane.

So, we didn't get a real big man yet - does that matter? We all know we're not title contenders next season regardless of who the fantasy trades bring in. Boston, Cleveland and Orlando are just too strong right now.

But where are those 3 gonna be in 2 years time?

I'm guessing Boston will be done. KG, Sheed, Allen and Pierce can't beat Father Time. Cleveland? Shaq and Big Z aren't getting any younger. Lebron could be a Knick lol. And Orlando is now in a situation where they could seriously implode with that Coach and group of players.

Who else in the East right now can you look at and say without a shadow of a doubt they could whip us in a 7 game series?

I take my hat off to Joe for finally changing with the times. He saw that the league had passed us by and he did what he needed to do. I think he even managed to keep some of that "Piston DNA" intact, too

So, well done Joe.

Why do you think he chased those particular two players, P? Your opinion on this intrugues me.

This is not a bad off-season.

We landed Charlie V and Ben Gordon - the 2 best young free agents that were "get-able". We paid them exactly what it took to get them here.

Why did Joe chase those 2 in particular is the real debate - which I might have to start sooner rather than later (but we will get to that).

Our Draft is looking like a fucking masterstroke!

(read that last sentence again - I want it to sink in)

I'm the guy that bashes Joe's Draft record every chance I get and to get 1 player out of that "crappy" Draft would be sweet. To land possibly 3 capable players (and all could be damn good) is insane.

So, we didn't get a real big man yet - does that matter? We all know we're not title contenders next season regardless of who the fantasy trades bring in. Boston, Cleveland and Orlando are just too strong right now.

But where are those 3 gonna be in 2 years time?

I'm guessing Boston will be done. KG, Sheed, Allen and Pierce can't beat Father Time. Cleveland? Shaq and Big Z aren't getting any younger. Lebron could be a Knick lol. And Orlando is now in a situation where they could seriously implode with that Coach and group of players.

Who else in the East right now can you look at and say without a shadow of a doubt they could whip us in a 7 game series?

I take my hat off to Joe for finally changing with the times. He saw that the league had passed us by and he did what he needed to do. I think he even managed to keep some of that "Piston DNA" intact, too

So, well done Joe.

P, I would argue that Toronto would also destroy us in a 7 game series, and seriously Orlando is going no where for a long time, as their nucleus is young and if the coach is the problem, they can just replace him.

I am not sold on Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, and Philly, but they will be clearly better than us in the immediate future. Incidentally that guarantees us the lotto, and that's with us finishing better than Charlotte, Washington, and Milwaukee.

If LBJ goes to NY, then they will be better than us, since LBJ is the team. So in the end, Orlando with their youth, whichever team has LBJ, and Toronto really aren't going anywhere. Add in that Chi and Atlanta are very young and good. There is no point in targeting the immediate future since Boston is the only Eastern team with a short window. We just gotta get better.

Now where I am in agreement with you is if there were better options for us in free agency. BG was the best SG, and CV was a good contract IMO. We'll see on those, but we can't assume that any of those other contenders are going anywhere. In fact, outside of Boston, SA, and maybe Dallas, no one is going to be worse any time soon.

Toronto would destroy us.....that's hilarious.

Shouldn't that have been in green? It is hilarious, but sadly its true.

Bargs better than any C we have
Bosh better than any PF
Turk vs. Prince maybe a wash, certainly not offensively though
Rip/BG vs. Derozan favors us
Calderon vs. Stuckey - tough call because Calderon can't D up but Stuck doesn't know how to shoot anyway.

no, it's not true. But I'm not going to waste breath convincing you otherwise.

Going by one-on-one matchups only proves my point. The game of basketball isnt about that. I'd have to re-teach the game of basketball itself to you before even beginning to explain why what you said is horribly wrong.


I can realistically see even why one would give an edge to toronto over us. But "destroy" is a comment based on emotional loathing and not basketball IQ points.

Toronto definitely has an edge on us. We'd have Villa guarding Bargs, I'd assume, with our C on Bosh. No one says you have to guard the same position. Plus, you've got to take depth into account. I don't know what kind of depth they have, but K is definitely right that you can't just assume based on individual positions. I do think they'd take us in the playoffs at this point, though. Their bigs > our bigs. Their PG > our PG at running an offense. Those are key factors in the playoffs.

As for them not going anywhere, you should reserve judgement on that until they get Bosh inked. If they lose him, they drop off big-time.
I think Pharaoh said that the Cavs are going to be losing Shaq and Ilgauskas, so they're going to drop. They're going to be losing Shaq's massive contract, which is going to give them the potential to add better players next to James (if he resigns). That's actually a good thing for their future.
If the Bulls ever get themselves a big-man, they'll be scary as well. Rose is going to keep getting better and he's going to make guys like Deng better. That's someone we'll have to look out for.
Boston will have a tough time staying competitive in a couple of years, and other teams will just be 'wait-and-see' status because we never know what moves they will make. We definitely have an uphill battle to be considered contenders in 2-3 years though.

Chicago right now is the most offensively challenged team in the league. Their big pickup was Jannerro Pargo.

Now that is a team i could see struggling to win 35 games. Derrick Rose is not good enough to carry that team offensively, and none of his teammates are cut out to be #2 options.

and re the Cavs, that's the same ridiculous logic that led people to believe we'd have $33 million in cap sapce this year, because we were dropping $33 million in salary.

The only way the Cavs have ANY cap space AT ALL next summer is if they renounce LeBron James. That's it. All Shaq's massive expiring contract will do is get them back under the luxury tax threshhold that is going to trainfuck them this season.

Luol Deng is a pretty good player. He is a fine #2. Hinrich is a good player. Hell Salmons is a good player. You are the one who talked about looking at the whole roster. They also have a C who is a great passer and a decent enough free throw shooter with size. Not to mention the 29M cap figure they have for next season not to mention Noah and Ty Thomas as young bigs. They have a future star at PG. They are in a fantastically better position than us right now. If you don't see that, then you truly do have RW&B blinders on.

Luol Deng hasnt been seen or heard from in 2 years, since Tayshaun Prince turned him into a chew-toy. He's devolved from rising star into a nice support player.

And yes, I'm looking at Chicago's whole roster, and seeing a bunch of role players but not a lot of firepower.

The only way i could see them overcoming that is with superb team chemistry....which they absolutely do not have....and great coaching...which they absolutely do not have. They aren't even good enough defensively to hang their hats on that, despite having a bunch of bigs who are on the floor for no other reason than to defend and rebound.

Chicago has always survived on talent alone, and they just took a major hit in that department. I don't see them making up for it.

They can't score. It's really that simple. They've always had trouble scoring, and they just lost their top scorer. They are not going to make the playoffs as presently constructed next season.

Oh, and we can't forget that amazing $29 million cap figure for 2010...oh wait, they have 2 1st round picks to sign, so make that $31-32 million....which is still a lot of money...IF THEY RENOUNCE THEIR RIGHTS TO ROSE, NOAH AND TYRUS THOMAS FIRST.

that's $15 million in team options right there, so make that a $46-47 million cap number for a summer when the cap is going down again. They might have $5 million to spend, 6 mil at the most. Color me impressed!

I don't mean next season, they'd need at least another year of development. Plus, I also said if they get a legit big-man, which is one of the reasons their offense is so stagnant. Teams never had to respect their big men, so they were able to focus on the guards and Deng.
I do think Deng has the potential to be a #2 option, and I don't know what happened to him. A few years ago, he was looking very legit.
I'm not saying that they'll have $20m in cap space or anything, but they'll have some space after Shaq and Z both come off the cap. I didn't say two max contracts. I said some better players. You think some guys aren't going to take lesser salaries to play with that team? I guess that's just ridiculous logic though.
Not counting their QO for Jawad Williams, they have $30m in contracts after this year. They'll be giving James the max (we'll assume $18m starting, that's a $60m salary cap), which leaves them with...........wait for it.............. $12m in salary cap space.
Want to use a smaller cap? If you drop it to $55m, he gets paid about $16.5m and they have $8.5m in cap space.
Saying that having Shaq and Z off the books means they'll be just under the Luxury Tax is...

ridiculous logic

Think it over. Get back to me.

they have so much cap space next season, that they are intent on spending more of it this year on jamario moon.

And while aging vets might be willing to take a paycut to play with lebron, they wont get back what they lost for $8 million.

The msot liekly scenario is they bring shaq back next year at half price.

And yes, I'm looking at Chicago's whole roster, and seeing a bunch of role players but not a lot of firepower.

The only way i could see them overcoming that is with superb team chemistry....which they absolutely do not have....and great coaching...which they absolutely do not have. They aren't even good enough defensively to hang their hats on that, despite having a bunch of bigs who are on the floor for no other reason than to defend and rebound.

Chicago has always survived on talent alone, and they just took a major hit in that department. I don't see them making up for it.

They can't score. It's really that simple. They've always had trouble scoring, and they just lost their top scorer. They are not going to make the playoffs as presently constructed next season.

Oh, and we can't forget that amazing $29 million cap figure for 2010...oh wait, they have 2 1st round picks to sign, so make that $31-32 million....which is still a lot of money...IF THEY RENOUNCE THEIR RIGHTS TO ROSE, NOAH AND TYRUS THOMAS FIRST.

that's $15 million in team options right there, so make that a $46-47 million cap number for a summer when the cap is going down again. They might have $5 million to spend, 6 mil at the most. Color me impressed!

KStat, I am looking at OUR roster, and I don't see a lot of firepower.
We don't have supreme team chemistry, largely due to our former coach and now a lack of a distributing PG.
We don't even have bigs. Rebounding and defense will be an even bigger problem for us in the pivot.

When it boils down to it, they already have a near star player in Rose locked up and young assets to get better players. Guess what else. If Bosh, Amare, Boozer, or any elite big they want is available, they can renounce Thomas, keep everyone else, and have 37-38M in cap commitments (used hoopshype and those numbers include this years draft picks). That team is in a good place, and they already have one star in place, which is 1 more than we do.

We have a ton of firepower. Defense is lacking, but there is as much firepower as there has been on this team in a long time. This team will not have trouble putting up points.

Also, I don't see Derrick Rose as much more of a "star" than Stuckey. He gets a lot of hype because he was the #1 pick, but he has a lot to learn about running an NBA team. He's got the potential, sure, but I don't see Stuckey having a lesser chance.

Again, it's a case of only seeing the other guy's highlights and thinking he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Derrick Rose could be a star in the future, but he is not a "star" right now.

If Chicago is in a "good place" now, then they've been in a "good place" for the last 5 years. The fact remains they still have an poor management, poor coaching and worse chemistry. Losing Gordon, their only real offensive dynamo, is going to really hurt them.

This isn't a video game. Chicago needs organizational changes. They can always keep trying to band-aid their terrible chemistry with sheer talent, but this year it isn't happening.

DEEP END ___________________________________








______________________________________________ Kstat

yes, yes, we're doomed, fire dumars, yaada, yaada. You can go back to your corner now.

Also, I don't see Derrick Rose as much more of a "star" than Stuckey. He gets a lot of hype because he was the #1 pick, but he has a lot to learn about running an NBA team. He's got the potential, sure, but I don't see Stuckey having a lesser chance.



Glan, classic.

On a tangent, is there anyway to archive this? This will be fun to bring up sooner rather than later.

James' new salary won't be lower than 17mil tho, regardless of the cap.

The cavs also have their 1st round picks this year and next year to sign. That's good for another couple of mils off their cap space. Even counting those two picks, they'll only have 9 players on the roster, so there's 3 roster cap holds which amounts to about 2.5mil.

(In short, aside from the 30mil they have committed and the 17m+ they'll pay James, for a total of 7 players, there's at least an equivalent of 5 cap holds which is at least 4-4.5mil).

Of course, they can always give away their picks, or use them as trade baits for even less salary in return, or sign some undrafted rookies to reduce the cap hold.

edit: and the Moon thing

Glan, classic.

On a tangent, is there anyway to archive this? This will be fun to bring up sooner rather than later.

That quote is what my "deep end" comment refers to.

Rose is so much better than Stuckey it's not even funny.

Glin looks reasonable next to kstat, not good :/

That quote is what my "deep end" comment refers to.

Rose is so much better than Stuckey it's not even funny.
is he better? yes, but your bias is exaggerating it a bit. I know you love having someone on an opposite spectrum exaggerating more than you do.

They'll keep Rose and Noah for sure, but they can either trade Thomas this season or they can do a S&T for him as a restricted FA after this season.

CindyKate, they can't pay James more than 30% of the salary cap. If the salary cap is $55m next season, that's only $16.5m for a max contract. That's the rules, they can't pay him more.

There's also the previous year salary+10.5% thingy.

Why do you think he chased those particular two players, P? Your opinion on this intrugues me.

He chased those 2 because:

A) They were get-able. Let's be honest - neither guy was restricted, neither guy was gonna be retained by his former team and neither guy really wanted to take the MLE.

B) They are young. Joe stated that he wanted to sign guys that could develop with Stuckey for the next 3-5 years. Mission accomplished. Even Wilcox fits in with that.

C) Both guys are "proven" scorers. Say what you will about Curry as a Coach (He's shit!) but at the end of the day this team has struggled offensively for a long time. By adding these 2 guys I think Joe is hoping to solve the scoring drought problems.

D) It's the new NBA. Let's face facts - the team Joe constructed with Ben, Sheed, Chauncey, Rip and Tay was built for a different NBA. When Ben bolted we could have rebuilt then but I guess Joe wanted to see if the remaining guys could keep it going. They did - so he persisted with the format.

The NBA continued to evolve and we are where we are today. Many Piston fans don't like the new NBA but it is what it is. Either Joe embraces it and changes the team or we get left behind.

Remember that superhuman effort a few years ago by Lebron? Where we lost in the Conference Finals? We had the team to destroy the Cavs then and the group that got swept was good enough to beat them this past playoffs - under the old NBA rules.

But no one plays under those rules anymore.

It's a brave new NBA and it's about time Joe jumped in and changed with the times. He's only a couple of years late but in his defense we were still doing very well with our out-dated style and format.

Give him time to complete the rebuild. There was no way he could change the entire team in on off-season - cap space or no cap space.

I like where we're heading and so should you - since we should be more uptempo, more exciting and more motivated.

Here's to a fine season...

There's also the previous year salary+10.5% thingy.

That's only applicable for raises within a contract. It is not relevant when determining the maximum starting salary for a new contract.

Rose is so much better than Stuckey it's not even funny.

http://www.nba.com/games/20081223/CHIDET/boxscore.html

^Please stop, you're making it worse.

http://www.nba.com/games/20081223/CHIDET/boxscore.html

Wow that was profound. How did the rest of the games in the season compare by the way? Didn't they win the other two? Didn't Rose play great in both. How about season averages? One game? Forget about that all of Rose's stats in the regular season and playoffs are better, and just focus on the FG%. 0.393 vs. 0.475? Yikes. I have to admit that I used to give you credibility, but after this post I am not sure it is merited. I admire your passion though...

OMG I just read your post again about Stuckey and Rose again. Yeah that one's going in the vault. Somewhere there has to be a predictions thread where people can make fun of one another.

That's only applicable for raises within a contract. It is not relevant when determining the maximum starting salary for a new contract.
Well how do you think Shaq got his current contract then?

point being, to say rose is ehad and shoulders above stuckey is ridiculous. Rose never had to deal with the same issues Stuckey had to deal with last season.

How many GMs would take Rose over Stuckey?

30/30.

Stop shilling, you're embarassing yourself.

not really keen on listening to the guy born without a spine.

point being, to say rose is ehad and shoulders above stuckey is ridiculous. Rose never had to deal with the same issues Stuckey had to deal with last season.

Why would you bring up one ridiculous game stat to support your argument if you felt this way?

Glan, I gotta get a poll here just to prove a point.

Yeah, Glenn. He's not going to listen to your silly logic and reason. Phooey!

Well how do you think Shaq got his current contract then?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q51


The salary in the first year of an extension to a rookie scale contract may be any amount up to the player's maximum. For all other extensions, the salary in the first year of the extension is limited to 110.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. However, it also can't exceed the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent (see question numbers 11 and 12).


There is an exception. If a player is extended, the player's max starting salary can be 105% of the last year of his contract.

Assuming Lebron opts out and becomes a free agent after this year, the last year of his contract would $15,779,912. 105% of that figure is $16,568,907.

On Shaq:


This poses an interesting problem -- if an extension takes effect three years from now, how do they set the salary if the maximum salary (and therefore the maximum amount for the extension) won't be known for three years? What they do is write the extension to include the maximum 10.5% raise (assuming the team agrees to give the player that much). Then when the extension takes effect and the maximum salary for that season is known, the extension salary is amended if necessary.

An example is in order. Shaquille O'Neal's contract was extended prior to the 2000-01 season. His original contract ran through the 2002-03 season, in which he made $23,571,429.20. The first year of his extension, 2003-04, was originally written for (the then-maximum) 112.5% of this amount, or $26,517,857.85. As a 10+ year veteran, O'Neal's salary couldn't exceed 105% of $23,571,429.20, or the 2003-04 maximum salary for a 10+ year veteran (which turned out to be $15,344,000), whichever is greater. That means O'Neal's 2003-04 salary could not exceed $24,750,000.66 (using 105% of his previous salary, since that was the greater of the two). O'Neal's extension was therefore amended downward to the maximum ($24,750,000.66) once the 2003-04 maximum salary was determined.

Thanks, got it

Thanks, RP. I missed the Shaq comment and was just going to post what you did.

If Lebron opted IN to the final year of his contract, he could extend his deal based on the final year of his deal being $17,149,243. Then his new contract, starting him in 2011-2012 could begin at $18,006,705.15.

So if Lebron decided that he wanted to stay in Cleveland, he could exercise the option on the last year of his contract (paying him $17 M+ for 10-11) and sign an extension with Cleveland. That would maximize Lebron's salary for 10-11, but then the first year of his new contract would be 105% of the last figure 18,006,705.15 (startign in 11-12). If he signs an extension based on this year's salary, his starting figure can be 30% of the cap or 105% of 15,779,912. Depending on the cap, that means his first year salary might be limited to 16,568,908. But for 11-12, his salary could be 18,308,642.9 which is $300 K higher than the previous method.

So you're right in that Cleveland MIGHT have to pay Lebron $17+ mill next year, but that would be if he opts in to the last year of his contract, which is something he's not expected to do.

Thanks, RP. I missed the Shaq comment and was just going to post what you did.

No problem, it's confusing.

ASB


Detroit will sign its rookies in the coming days. Then they will add a center, either Ben Wallace or Rasho Nesterovic, to the vet minimum.

Duh.

http://www.nba.com/games/20081223/CHIDET/boxscore.html

Weren't you jumping on Mxy for bringing up the 3 playoff games in which Ben Gordon struggled?

Weren't you jumping on Mxy for bringing up the 3 playoff games in which Ben Gordon struggled?


which would be valid if my claim was that ben gordon was the ultimate clutch player and never, ever failed.

The claim that Derrick Rose is somehow out of Stuckey's league is absurd. It would be realistic to claim he is better, but the gap is greatly exaggerated.

The claim that Derrick Rose is somehow out of Stuckey's league is absurd. It would be realistic to claim he is better, but the gap is greatly exaggerated.

I don't want to get into an argument over this. Maybe a poll is in order?

Im ok with signing wallace and getting ready for a mid level expectations season.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! This thread is priceless.

Who was guarding Stuckey for a lot of that game?

I'm with you K. It's an argument over semantics here more than anything. Does Rose appear better currently? Yes. K is admitting that.

But all y'all who are saying Rose is far better and will be over the course of his career are really short-sighted and are probably the ones claiming that this season is lost before the first tip. Rose had one good year on a pretty functional team, while Stuckey had a partial year as a backup and one year on the Pistons family circus featuring AI.

But I'm sure Rose would have led us to victory if he had been in Stuckey's place.

I'm with you K. It's an argument over semantics here more than anything. Does Rose appear better currently? Yes. K is admitting that.

But all y'all who are saying Rose is far better and will be over the course of his career are really short-sighted and are probably the ones claiming that this season is lost before the first tip. Rose had one good year on a pretty functional team, while Stuckey had a partial year as a backup and one year on the Pistons family circus featuring AI.

But I'm sure Rose would have led us to victory if he had been in Stuckey's place.

I mean, did you guys even watch Rose play? This is crazy. I like Stuckey, too.

There's no doubt that this is a Pistons site sometimes.

Who was guarding Stuckey for a lot of that game?
I could be wrong, but wasn't it Ben Gordon?

Sure, I've seen Rose play. A lot, actually, since I live in Chicagoland. He's a GREAT player, but it just seems inconsistent to annoint him and trash Stuckey based on a limited sample size of both players.

Do you guys really think Stuckey should have shown more this last season, even with all of the whining (Rip), laziness (Sheed), and ineptitude (Curry)?

30/30.

I haven't bagged on Stuckey. I don't think many are. The fact is Rose was taken top 2 for a reason and Stuckey was just outside the lotto for a reason (the schools they played at). No shame in it for Stuckey, he hadn't proven himself on as big a stage as Rose. Rose proved himself at Memphis and in the tourney.

Their numbers are actually pretty similar. Rose shoots a higher % though (%48 to %44 for Stuckey).

However, even though he was injured in year 1, that was Stuckey's 2nd year and Rose was just a rookie. So he's still ahead of Stuckey a little.

Point is that Stuckey is not bad at all. He just needs to develop his outside shot so he can play off the ball as well.

Do you guys really think Stuckey should have shown more this last season, even with all of the whining (Rip), BULLSHIT (AI), laziness (Sheed), and ineptitude (Curry)?
Fixed.

I haven't bagged on Stuckey. I don't think many are. The fact is Rose was taken top 2 for a reason and Stuckey was just outside the lotto for a reason (the schools they played at). No shame in it for Stuckey, he hadn't proven himself on as big a stage as Rose. Rose proved himself at Memphis and in the tourney.

Their numbers are actually pretty similar. Rose shoots a higher % though (%48 to %44 for Stuckey).

However, even though he was injured in year 1, that was Stuckey's 2nd year and Rose was just a rookie. So he's still ahead of Stuckey a little.

Point is that Stuckey is not bad at all. He just needs to develop his outside shot so he can play off the ball as well.

on a good team, stuckey is a 6th man. yeah he can get to the hole, but he cant run an offense. this year will show what kind of player he is.

I really think that's where he's best suited. He would have been perfect coming off the bench behind Billups and Rip, backup up both positions. He'd still have gotten 25mpg, and he'd have been able to be the instant offense type. Maybe if he doesn't show he's got what it takes this season, he gets shifted back to that role and we go after a PG. Who knows.

YMIH,

Post here more please.

TIA

When he adds that outside shot and gets a shot at running a real offense, I think he's got a shot to be a star. Is that fair?

"Nice try" Atticus.

Yes, I think that's fair, Atticus.

I agree with your mom is hot, I will give him this year to show what kind of player he is.

I think that Stuckey could thrive as a SG and maybe even be a star. As a PG, I just haven't seen anything from him to show that he will be anything but a back-up. He hasn't shown an affinity to pass the ball nor to be the floor general.

Stuckey will not be an all-star at SG.

He'd better be taking a thousand jumpers a day. He can handle the ball fairly well, he has good control driving to the basket (even though he's had issues finishing), but he needs to develop a jumper. If he can do that, then he can be a very solid player. If he can't, then he's *gulp* Flip Murray with a little more passing.

Alright, you've done it now Zekyl.

Stuckey will not be an all-star at SG.

If freakin' Mo Williams can be an All-Star (although at PG), I think that Stuckey can make it one day. I think that Stuck would have a better chance at SG than at PG based on his game. There have been a few All-Star SG's with less than awesome jump shots. We had one last season in AI.

He's not going to be an all-star at SG or at PG, most likely. He's going to end up being a solid 6th man as a combo guard or he's going to be an above-average/solid starter, at best. That's my opinion, of course, but that's not downplaying him at all. If we took the #15 pick and turned it into a solid starter for years to come, then I'd say that was a good pick.

Above-average compared to starters, not to ever PG or SG in the league. If that's where he ends up, it's not a bad thing.

I don't feel like restating why moving him to SG makes him ordinary.

If we took the #15 pick and turned it into a solid starter for years to come, then I'd say that was a good pick.

How weird is it that the guy who bashes Joe for his drafting couldn't agree more with Zekyl's point?

ASB


More moves coming
Signing Wilcox nearly tapped out Detroit's salary cap space, but that doesn't mean they're done making deals. Once they sign all three of their draft picks from last month's draft, as well as 2008 second-round pick Deron Washington, the Pistons plan to sign at least one more player. He will be signed to a contract for the veteran's minimum, which is $1.3 million.

Detroit is considering a handful of players, with former Piston Ben Wallace and veteran center Rasho Nesterovic at the top of their list.

Those aren't really "moves".

yeah we need to make a trade FCOL. i'm not holding my breath though.

But who are we gonna trade with?

Is Charlotte shopping Okafor?
Is Toronto shopping Bosh?
Is Phoenix still shopping Amare?
Do the Clips wanna part with Kaman or Camby?
Do the Warriors wanna deal Biedrins?

What other starting calibre C would "we" want to team with our guys?

If Biedrins really is at odds with Nelson, then he'd be a really nice fit for either Rip or Tay, IMO.

Okafor is the other one that I love to see here.

Kaman would be my third choice, but could we get him for Tay, and can he stay healthy?

I would have loved Camby a year or two ago (as mentioned at the time) but he's what, 35? 35 and injury prone is probably not the best thing for this team, he could go to a contender maybe.

I've given up on Bosh & Amar'e.

Others that I'd "want" but may not be able to get would include Al Jefferson, KEVIN LOVE, Brad Miller, Nene, Troy Murphy (why not?), Bogut, Dave West (could play C in the East, same for D.Lee & Brand), Aldridge, Oden, Pryzbilla, Haywood.

Hell, I might even think about Dalembert at this point.

Now, I didn't check out contracts on all of those guys, so don't hold that aginst me (you will), but the point is, there's not necessarily only 2-3 guys that could help us.

IMO.

If Biedrins really is at odds with Nelson, then he'd be a really nice fit for either Rip or Tay, IMO.

Do the Warriors want/need Rip or Tay?



Okafor is the other one that I love to see here.

Does Charlotte want/need Rip or Tay?



Kaman would be my third choice, but could we get him for Tay, and can he stay healthy?

Don't know - I asked you first.


I would have loved Camby a year or two ago (as mentioned at the time) but he's what, 35? 35 and injury prone is probably not the best thing for this team, he could go to a contender maybe.

His expiring contract could mean Joe is King... Again!


I've given up on Bosh & Amar'e.

Never, ever give up.



Others that I'd "want" but may not be able to get would include Al Jefferson, KEVIN LOVE, Brad Miller, Nene, Troy Murphy (why not?), Bogut, Dave West (could play C in the East, same for D.Lee & Brand), Aldridge, Oden, Pryzbilla, Haywood.

Hell, I might even think about Dalembert at this point.

Now, I didn't check out contracts on all of those guys, so don't hold that aginst me (you will), but the point is, there's not necessarily only 2-3 guys that could help us.

IMO.

And I keep going back to this:

Does any team want/need Tay or Rip? We've got Kwame's expiring to deal. We've got youth to deal. We've got veteran talent to deal.

The assets are there - who wants 'em?

If we actually "knew" who wanted what, then we'd be onto something.

If none of the 12-15 teams that I just posted have any interest in either Rip or Tay, then it sounds like we're sunk.

Well, start by making a list of teams wanting RIP or Tay and are willing to part with talent equal to them regardless of position (of course it would have to be PG/PF/C).

After that you find teams with centers to move that could use the players listed from the first part above.

Maybe you find a team that has extra PG's and wants RIP. Then you find a team that needs PG's and has too many bigs.

I was going to question you putting Troy Murphy in there. I didn't realize how big he is. I didn't think he had the size to defend Cs, but he's 6'11" 245. I know he can hold his own against some of the bigger PFs.

The more important question is which of those guys would we have a shot at using Rip or Tay as the primary player with Max, Kwame, draft picks, rookies as possible inclusions?

Biedrins is possible, they already tried to trade him once this offseason (yes, it was for Amare) and the rumors have always been out there that he and Nelly don't get along.

The Clips aren't moving Camby or Kaman. They have a solid rotation of Camby, Kaman, Griffin. They have Gordon at SG so no on Rip. They have Thornton at SF, though he could be moved to a backup SF/PF role potentially, but they'd be smart to let the young guys grow together.

Al Jefferson or Kevin Love - we don't have anything they would want.

Brad Miller - the Bulls have Deng at SF. I don't think they'd move him for Rip, they'd rather have Miller's expiring, plus they already need to improve their frontcourt without moving him.

Nene - They have Carmelo at SF. They have Smith at SG and he wouldn't handle a move to the bench very well. Nene finally got back to his old form. If anything, they'd look to unload K-Mart.

Troy Murphy - They have Granger at SF. I don't actually know who they have at SG. I don't know if they'd move him for Rip. I just realized how little I know about the current Pacers. They dropped off the map.

Bogut - They just locked him up long term, plus they'd be looking at Gadzuric and Elson in the middle. I would love it but Hammond isn't that dumb.

West - It was potentially possible when we had cap space, but I don't know if we could save them enough money at this point.

Lee - How low will he be willing to go? We don't have the expirings to give the Knicks for him. If we included both of our expirings (Kwame and Bynum), we'd only be able to offer him about $6m starting, and that's not getting it done. If we still had Afflalo and Sharpe, we could have upped that to at least $8.5m and NY would have been taking back 4 expiring contracts. How well does he fit with CV? Can he defend the post against bigger Cs (Shaq, Z, Garnett, Howard)? We'll label this one possible, but not likely.

Brand - They have no room for Prince at SF between Iggy and Thad. Rip wouldn't be out of the question, with Iggy at SF and Thad at PF. They seem to think that Brand is ready to bounce back this year, with last season being his first back from the injury. Do you really want to be paying him $18m in 2012-13? He'll be 34 with a serious injury history. It may not seem like a bad move for 2009-10, but that's probably $45m tied up in Gordon, CV, Brand, Max for that season. They get a SG and out from his contract, possible.

Aldridge - Dubious

Oden - How bad do they want Tay and have they given up on him? Highly unlikely.

Przybilla - How bad do they want Tay and do they think Oden is ready to be the man? Highly unlikely.

Haywood - I thought this was the solid fallback move when the offseason started. They only move his expiring to save money this year. The most we can save them without cap space is about a million. The downgrade to Kwame and whatever else we include may not be worth it.

Dalembert - For Rip, they'd be listening. They'd lose Dalembert's D, but they could possible run out Rip at SG, Iggy at SF, Thad at PF, and Brand at C. He's great at blocking shots and he's a solid defender. But is that enough to cover up his complete lack of offense and propensity for fouls that limits him to 25mpg? If he was making $8m, then he is a no-brainer. At $12m this year and $13m next year, that's tough.


I'm not trying to rip apart your post, Glenn. I'm just stating the possibilities of us actually making a move before the season starts. We're probably going into this year with 1 more vet minimum big.

Remote Possibilities:
Brand
Dalembert
Biedrins
Lee

Highly Unlikely Possibilities
Przybilla
Oden
Murphy?

Unless it's a 3-team deal or a team that has some cap space (Portland, come get Prince), we're not looking too hot.

No prob., Zek.

Solid analysis is always welcomed.

Starbury on DRose: "He's a beast. A PROBLEM. A PROBLEM ... I got Chris Paul...Derrick Rose...Jason Kidd...Rondo...Dwill--he nice too."

Via the 24 hours of Starbury chatravaganza

Yeah. Some people on here (Kstat is the biggest voice piece for this) are saying you can't judge our moves because Joe will still make a trade for a big. I'm just not seeing it as all that likely after losing all our cap space.

You don't give up a decent young center unless you are forced to financially -OR- you think you are getting better players/picks in the deal. We can no longer help teams with saving money. We don't have great picks or stud young talent either.

There just aren't going to be that many scenarios to get a young big. Period.

Thus my avatar and location.

I love that Derrick Rose Bottle.

On a nontangent though, I think the best way to get a good young center will have to be packaging Stuckey with Kwame and then starting BG at the 1 (yikes).

Would Milwaukee listen to Bogut, Bell, and Bowen for Stuckey, Kwame, and Prince? Its a steep price but it would be nice to have a long term C. I don't even know if I would do that deal but at some point we have to address our lack in the pivot.

Bogut, CV, Summers?, Rip, and BG with Max, Wilcox, Daye, and Bynum as the main backups. At least our hole would be at SF instead of at C.

mreh, that deal sucks but at least it would get us a C.

Bogut and CV up front didn't exactly do wonders for the Bucks!

Bogut and CV up front didn't exactly do wonders for the Bucks!
had more to do with the Bucks imo. They never consistently made getting them involved a priority. I personally think Bogut would be a damn good on a team with a great half court up front style.

Drew Gooden (http://twitter.com/DrewGooden): I will be making my decision tomorrow on which team I will be playing for! Stay tuned...

had more to do with the Bucks imo. They never consistently made getting them involved a priority. I personally think Bogut would be a damn good on a team with a great half court up front style.

Yeah, any time I've watched the Bucks play I come away amazed they don't feed Bogut the ball more. I personally think he's a very good player and I would love to have him on the Pistons (not holding my breath).

had more to do with the Bucks imo. They never consistently made getting them involved a priority. I personally think Bogut would be a damn good on a team with a great half court up front style.

I see your point but I'm still leary of guys who don't do well on a crappy team. Just my opinion. I wouldn't mind having him but it depends on the price.

After playing in only nine games during the past two seasons because of a hip injury, Troy Hudson is moving closer to a return to the league. The 33-year-old held a private workout in Las Vegas last week in conjunction with the NBA's annual summer league there, and four teams watched him: Oklahoma City, Memphis, Philadelphia and Detroit. …

SOURCE: ESPN

With Andre Miller signing in Portland, I think Philly will be the team most desperately courting him.

i just enjoyed that 'news' because i hadn't heard his name in......2 years or so. O_O

Troy Hudson? Make the bad noises stop!

Memphis just rescinded their offer for 3 million qualifying offer to him. If we could him for 3 million a year wouldn't you guys be interested in him?

I mean he's not exactly a defensive presence but he is a young, athletic forward that would be nice to bring off the bench. From what I remember seeing him at Syracuse and in Memphis is that he is very sneaky with his offensive moves and really hustles.

What do you think? I think we could do a lot worse in the free agency market since there is no one left.

He can't play center, so no thanks.

We have no £ left

He's athletic and hustles, but he's a 3/4 not a 4/5. He;s 6'9..but fucking 220 pounds...

Yeah, SF is the last thing this team needs.

Would you trade Dajuan Summers for him?

Note that, when he's started in Memphis (~80 games over the past 3 years), Warrick's averaged roughly 16ppg/6rpg on 50% shooting.

I'll take the proven player drafted 19th in a solid draft over the rookie taken in the 2nd round in a weak draft anyday.

we have no money to offer him but the vet minimum. unless there's a sign and trade.

No fucking way these Jake Voskuhl to the Pistons rumors I just read are legit.

Just...NFW.

At this point GD I'd believe anything is possible.

It's just unfortunate that the "anything is possible" tag seems to equal negative shit lately...

no wonder u didnt provide a link. Twitter from a random fuck? Really? you guys are way too hungry for excuses to bitch.

No fucking way these Jake Voskuhl to the Pistons rumors I just read are legit.

Just...NFW.
Mikki Moore must be out of our price range.

Mikki Moore must be out of our price range.
or not from UConn.

Would Mikki Moore be a bad pickup at this point? I don't even know if he's a FA, but debating if he'd be a solid grab is sad.

no wonder u didnt provide a link. Twitter from a random fuck? Really? you guys are way too hungry for excuses to bitch.

Read it again. I said no way that it's true.

Joe Dumars will add at least one post player
Terry Foster / The Detroit News

Auburn Hills -- Pistons President Joe Dumars said he will add at least one more big man to the roster before fall training camp, and former Piston Ben Wallace remains in that mix.

But Dumars said the team wants to keep its options open before making a final decision.

"Ben Wallace is someone we're discussing, but no decision has been made," Dumars said Thursday via text message.

Wallace (6-foot-9), 35 next month, has expressed interest in returning to the Pistons, for whom he played from 2000-2006. He left after signing a four-year, $60 million free-agent contract with the Chicago Bulls. Wallace was traded to the Cleveland Cavaliers but was released after the season and remains an unrestricted free agent able to sign with any team. The Pistons and Wallace have been in contact; no deal has been offered.

The Pistons seem to have soured on Boston Celtics center Glen Davis (6-9). The Celtics say they will match any offer up to $5.3 million, and the Pistons cannot offer that type of cash without working a sign-and-trade or getting a third team involved. Power forward Joe Smith (6-10) is a good shooter as a big man and could be signed along with Celtics power forward Leon Powe, who is not expected to play until February because of a knee injury.

Former Piston Terry Mills has studied the landscape of big men and said the pickings are slim. He predicts Wallace will return to the Pistons unless they work a major trade, which he said is not likely. But Mills warned fans they won't see the same Wallace, who was voted NBA defensive player of the year four times and was made the all-defensive team six times. lol

"He can help them out as far as leadership is concerned in trying to develop the younger guys," Mills said.

"The Pistons are in a situation where their hands are kind of tied. Who is out there? You are in a situation if nothing happens now you have to wait until 2010. And you are in an ugly situation because all those guys who are all projected to come out their teams are working hard to sign them and keep them."

As it stands, free-agent signee Chris Wilcox and journeyman Kwame Brown would compete for the starting center position. Jason Maxiell is undersized at 6-7 but has defended the post at times. Dumars said he likes to have 5-6 interior players and believes he needs at least one more.

The big-man addition is likely to be Wallace or a veteran.

"Usually what you're looking for out of a veteran big man is leadership, toughness and professionalism," Dumars said.

Mill said he does not expect the Pistons to swing a trade because their big trade bait is guard Richard Hamilton and small forward Tayshaun Prince. Normally, NBA teams are reluctant to trade big men for small players.

Buffalo Wild Wings

No shit.

Also, ISWYDTBW3.

I thought you'd finish it off

finish it off

What do the people think? 248-539-9797

Shit

"It's true dude, he did not say that" doesn't fit there Gla.

"He did not say that" is what I was hoping for

Nevermind

That's your line, not his. It also doesn't work because he's the one saying it.

We gotta work on our timing.

I wonder if Joe will consider bringing in Gabe Pruitt for a look?

What about Mike Taylor as the 3rd pg?

Ben Wallace is back baby!!!!!!

What about Mike Taylor as the 3rd pg?

He had some flashes of brilliance last year in LA.

Mar 27 @ San Antonio- 10/13, 23 pts
Mar 25 @ New York- 14/20, 35 pts

what about deron washington getting a 2 year deal today? O_O

what about deron washington getting a 2 year deal today? O_O
The first year is partially guaranteed, although the Pistons anticipate he'll be with the club long enough to where it becomes fully guaranteed. The second year is a team option.

yeah still found that interesting. i like the kid and hope he can develop. but i have to admit i was very disappointed in his jumpshot and ball handling in summer league- the 2 things he supposedly was developing so well overseas. i would've kept him overseas for 1 more year.

then again, we're not going anywhere anytime soon so i guess there's no harm getting him in now. he showed some ability to hit some jumpers. but good lord he needs some work if he's ever going to be able to consistently hit a jumpshot. especially at the nba level.

shit- even on his FTs his percentage was awful. love his athleticism and hustle. and even his defense is pretty darn good. but the J and handles need a TON of work still.

It's like putting JYD at SG.

I've never seen him play, how does he compare to Ronald Dupree?

Better in some ways and worse in others

Better in some ways and worse in others

Thanks!

:kennythejet:

You can't get that kind of info just anywhere.

If Washington was to focus ONLY on D could he actually have an NBA career?

The guy is athletic and if his jumper and ball handling are crap maybe he should go the defensive swingman route and try and stick in the league.

If Washington was to focus ONLY on D could he actually have an NBA career?




No, you have to have some scoring skill to be a guard, otherwise your opponent can play off you at the perimeter, making their rotations too easy. That's why AA got shipped off for a spoonfull of ball cheese, he couldn't hit that wide open shot in the corner.

And I'm not sure Washington is as good a defender as AA frankly. He's fun.

Ok, umm, I'll re-phrase:

Could he eventually become a decent defensive role player?

Ok, umm, I'll re-phrase:

Could he eventually become a decent defensive role player?

And I'll answer again, no, not unless he improves his offense. You can't have a pure D 2 guard who just flat kills you when you have the ball. Hell, we don't even know if he can stay in front of his guy, just that he's a weakside monster.

I guess Quinton Ross got another deal, but I expect him to flop out of the league pretty quick.

Ok, understood.

If Curry was coaching here still he'd be starting.

I don't think he has a future either. Most "defensive specialists" can't create for themselves, but can at least knock down a wide open jumper.

Is the 1 year contract no-trade thing only for vets or does it apply to all 1-year deals? That 2nd year option could give us the ability to trade him.

I don't mind him coming over this year since we're keeping Rip and Ben. He's only going to get darkotime minutes.......erm, garbage-time minutes. Plus, we can monitor his practice (i.e. make him shoot jumpers all day) and send him to the d-league for playing time.

Just read a Pistons/Maceo Baston rumor. Not sure if it is legit.

Isn't he in his mid-30's now? Do we need another forward? He'd be competing for time with half our roster.
Villanueva -PF/SF
Maxiell - PF
Wilcox - PF/C
Summers - SF/PF
Jerebko - SF/PF

Even Ben could see some PF minutes, though I'm hoping we stick with him playing limited time at C.

Plus, Tay will get PF minutes when we go small. He shouldn't, but he will.

Probably just a training camp body, if anything.

Last week we told you that the extra point guard the Pistons intended to bring to camp was Baylor’s undrafted Curtis Jerrells. The extra big man to be brought in will be Maceo Baston, a 1998 second-rounder out of Michigan who’s spent four seasons, including the last three, in the NBA sandwiched around a successful career in Europe. Baston was with the Indiana Pacers last season.

:langlois:

i remember watching this kid when he first arrived in michigan. he was thought to be the next stud player out of u of m and a surefire nba star someday.

oh how the mighty have fallen.

I saw Maceo play last year with the Pacers.

He's actually a solid big man in terms of holding his position. He plays bigger than he looks, and he runs the floor pretty well.

That said, he still brings very little to the game in terms of skill.