Gutz owns.
No Detroit Owns. I bleed pistons Red White Blue and Teal if needed. Remembering that has relaxed me a lil' better.

We were supposed to win 45-48 this year. %80 of the national media picked the cavs or bulls to win the division, and half of them picked BOTH of them to supplant us..
But Joe D knew better and most of us here did too. I can't believe you even tried that. you are taking this thing a lil' too hard man.

Here's a question...we know the answer, but i'll give you a chance to be honest. How many wins did you expect this year?

But Joe D knew better and most of us here did too. I can't believe you even tried that. you are taking this thing a lil' too hard man.

Most of us here thought the pistons were clearly better than the bulls? Thnk again...

I remember being pretty damn alone in that line of thought in November.

Here's a question...we know the answer, but i'll give you a chance to be honest. How many wins did you expect this year?

I expected 50-55, but I expected lot higher than most.

Most of us here thought the pistons were clearly better than the bulls? Thnk again...
what are you talking about? How is better than the bulls relevant to us winning 50 wins? i ignored the comparison since it was irrelevant to this convo.

I expected 50-55, but I expected lot higher than most.
Did you expect higher than Joe D and Davidson?

Did you expect higher than Joe D and Davidson?

I have no idea what they expected.

I do know, by Joe's admission, losing to a better team (the celtics) in the ECF wasn't the problem. Watching us crap the bed in game 3 and game 6 was.

KS i see you're going for the derail in this bulls talk. I'll leave you be. But Flip is gone man. He didn't meet the team's expectations which obviously hold more value to the post season than the regular season. If you dont agree with that and hate it even, I hear phoenix could use some fans. Because this will be the measure by which our coaches are judged as long as we are competitive in our roster. But you are entitled to your expectations. Dont expect to see the same from the decision makers.

I have no idea what they expected.

I do know, by Joe's admission, losing to a better team (the celtics) in the ECF wasn't the problem. Watching us crap the bed in games 3 and game 6 was.
He also said the team was good enough to be in the finals 3 years in a row. You must have missed that part. He expected atleast finals.

He's gone because it was time for a change. I really don't think it was because he failed expectations. I felt he had a very good season, and failed for reasons he had nothing to do with.


But you are entitled to your expectations. Dont expect to see the same from the decision makers.

Actually, the "decision maker" is doing exactly what I suggested he do, but ok....

I wish you the best on this KS. I'm moving on now to possibly the Curry era, hope Joe D will deal with exodus of bench fucks like theo/hayes, Rip's contract, Sheed's fucked up trade value, and whatever comes his way. Also i cant even deal with you when you play like i have explain everything to you about what was meant in obvious things he said. Beauty of a forum is that you can keep responding for the sake of dragging something out and act dumb to push it further.

lol@u doing a 180 degrees on the value of authority.

He also said the team was good enough to be in the finals 3 years in a row. You must have missed that part. He expected atleast finals.

I'm sure every team expects to get that far, but any GM worth his salt knows sometimes things don't always go your way.

Joe wasn't upset we lost against Boston. He brought the spurs up as a measuring stick, and said we were not even as competitive as they were against LA.

Basically, had we gone down swinging like the Spurs, he'd have been okay with that, despite his expectations. It wasn't that we lost, it was how, which is the point I keep trying to make and you keep missing.

I'm fine with handing this team over to Michael Curry. I do want the right message to be sent that the players will also be held accountable for not doing their jobs. The coach needs to have some kind of authority.

More is expected because of the great regular seasons.

If this team suddenly fell into 40-win mediocrity, we wouldn't be expecting finals berths, now would we?

a 50+ win season signifies that, at the very worst, you're still an elite team. Anything can happen in the playoffs, and even quality teams don't always perform to expectations.

Your expectation of a finals is based off of the great regular seasons they have, which prove they are indeed important and should not be taken for granted.

I guess I owe you a response as well.

59 regular season wins don't really mean much to me anymore especially if, as a fan, I'm sold by my GM that this team is all about winning a championship. If we were the atlanta hawks I'd be giddy as a school girl with a 59-win season. But when a GM states we're championship calibur, especially about a team that has made it to the ECF the last 6 years, then I'm going to be extra-critical and have my expectations set a bit higher.

Should the players be held more accountable than Flip? Maybe. I think they both must share responsibility (as they should have last year...the same shit happened this year....chauncey failed miserably.......mcdyess played too much and we couldn't defend the rim or keep guys off the glass...tayshaun disappeared....the bench still couldn't score- if they ever got in the game-....and rasheed became frustrated and imploded)

Dumars is one year too late in firing his coach and changing his roster.

All in all it's Joe D's responsibility for the coach and the roster so he must take ultimate blame, and I'm sure he does. Hopefully he does more than change coaches. We'll see. But still, so far so good.

And please don't be tossing out the 80s and 90s and your experiences thereof as justification for your opinions, that is meaningless. I grew up in chicago as a youngster watching Isiah Thomas play in high school and he is completely to blame for me supporting this team. If the mavericks were wise enough to pick him over aguirre I'd currently be spewing my venom on some random dallas maverick forum about jerry stackhouse and how he's a cancerous piece of garbage and I wouldn't really give two shits about the pistons. Doesn't mean I'm right but would prove that I'm a fan that cares about my team.

Last year Dumars couldn't afford to trade Billups, and Sheed had 2 years left on his deal.

He could have broken it up last year, but he wasn't in nearly as good a position to do so.

Listening to the Joe Dumars interview on WDFN is pretty enlightening. I've never heard Joe being more up front with the media, and I think that's pretty telling. He sounds frustrated, and he's cutting loose. If you haven't heard it, here you go:

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/DETROIT-MI/WDFN-AM/JOE%20DUMARS%206-3.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=DETROIT-MI&NG_FORMAT=sports&SITE_ID=1128&STATION_ID=WDFN-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=Sports_Radio_1130_WDFN&PCAST_CAT=sports&PCAST_TITLE=WDFN_-_The_Stoney_and_Wojo_Show

Phase 1 of plugging our mistakes is complete, so happy about it, made my day! Good bye to that pussy offense (and hopefully not hello to the same damn thing from Mr Curry).

Now, let's see what Joe does about that FRONT-COURT. Nobody on the front court should be safe imo, except maybe *MAYBE* Amir. Maybe. If they are serious about how him being that good and they weren't just feeding hype to the local media.

The next coach needs to start, not end, with emphasis on INTERIOR D, and REBOUNDING, and balanced INSIDE-OUT scoring that's not dependent on jump-shooting percentage. That's basically what i wanted since about halfway through the 06 season when everybody was orgasming about 70 wins. That's all I really want from the next coach... to not be a moron, and when asked about his plans as coach, should begin talking about at least 2 of 3 things.

That shouldn't be too hard, right? RIGHT? I have no idea what the deal with Curry is...

I'm actually more excited about changes than I am about playoff series, which is a good indicator of how tired these guys' attitudes are.

Amir and Stuckey were the only guys actually singled out for unconditional praise today by Joe.

Amir and Stuckey were the only guys actually singled out for unconditional praise today by Joe.
Of course, that might just mean he's trying to inflate their trade value.

I'm listening to the Stony/Wojo interview, lots of interesting stuff. Joe D is a house of fire, i'm actually quite excited. Hey who knows what he does now could fail, but at least there's an excitement of something new in the air. Go Joe!

One interesting bit was that he forcefully said he was VERY disappointed Amir didn't get more of an opportunity in the regular season AND the playoffs. the tone spoke to a real carlisle/prince vibe.

LOL FLIP GOT FIRED, HAHAHAHHAHHAA.

READ AND LAUGH, HATERS.

I personally dont care if amir plays. Just want to get back to the finals. .

LOL FLIP GOT FIRED, HAHAHAHHAHHAA.

READ AND LAUGH, HATERS.
Dont rub it in. especially when I turned down the chance.

I have a swollen lip and I'm wasted on benadryl, I have no decency right now.

regarding michael curry:

obviously he has no head coaching experience and only 1 year as an assistant. but he was always a player on the floor who was sort of an extension of the coach anyway.

not to mention, he spent a couple of years in the nba office so the guy is extremely bright and experienced in many diverse areas.

that being said, some might question his 'X's & O's' but to me i think he's bright enough to pull that off. AND there's no doubt he knows how to communicate with players and how to relate to them. while he has no track record, i'm willing to bet he'll be a guy who can motivate our players better than anyone we've had in a while- WITHOUT simultaneously irritating them.

curry is only a few years removed from being a player himself so he knows the mindset of today's players. i'm very excited about him as coach.

in summary, i think the main duties of an nba head coach is to manage and motivate players and keep them focussed. it's not even as much about 'X's & O's'. not that curry can't be good there too, cause i think he can. but i'm just saying that there is a lot less 'strategy and gameplanning' in the nba as opposed to the nfl for example.

so IMO the main thing you want is a coach who has players respect and who they will listen to and play hard for. IMO curry already has that down pat and even with no experience, he won't take long to earn respect and be a really good head coach.

but only time will tell. however as joe said, there need to be more changes than just the head coach. for sure. we need to move at least one starter and continue the influx of young talent.

What's more surprising... Flip getting fired or Flip surviving for a whole three years?

Flip surviving for three years.
Longest tenured coach under Joe Dumars' watch.

:mccosky:


Firing surprised Saunders
Ex-coach said he thought he would be brought back after Saturday meeting.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- Flip Saunders was taken by surprise when Joe Dumars informed him Tuesday morning that he'd been fired. Just three days earlier, Dumars had told him that this past season was his best out of the three he had coached in Detroit and Saunders left with the impression that he was going to return for his fourth season.

"After talking to Joe (on Saturday), I was excited," Saunders said, less than three hours after he had been fired. "We had talked about the direction he was looking to go in and about what he was looking to do in the offseason and I was excited. I felt like it was going to be a great challenge."

Dumars said the decision to fire Saunders was made for two reasons -- he felt the team needed to have another voice and another direction at the head coach level, and when the decision was made not to give Saunders a long-term extension, he didn't want to bring him back as a lame-duck coach.

"I knew coming in what the expectations were," Saunders said. "But I also know that there wasn't anybody else who could have come in and done a better job than we did given all the circumstances. That much I am sure of."

Saunders, who will take his $5.4 million salary for 2008-09 as severance, said he hadn't had time to think about what his next move might be. He made it clear, though, that he would pursue another head coaching job in the near future.

"This was a crazy situation," Saunders said. "I am disappointed at not getting to the Finals -- not just getting to the Finals, but not winning a championship. It's a funny thing. You go through all the ebbs and flows of an 82-game schedule, and then you go through a 10-day span in a playoff series where a couple of your guys don't play well and that's basically what you are judged on.

"It's just what happens."

Saunders leaves the Pistons with the highest winning percentage in franchise history (.715), three straight Central Division titles and three straight trips to and losses in the conference finals.

that's mccoskey trying to save his ass b/c he reported he was staying...

eat your crow and sit down Christopher

that's mccoskey trying to save his ass b/c he reported he was staying...


You bet.

that's mccoskey trying to save his ass b/c he reported he was staying...

eat your crow and sit down Christopher

That's McCloskey and you're right

also LOL at "anybody else who could have come in and done a better job than we did given all the circumstances"

aka
http://www.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0527/nba_a_wallace2_395.jpg

That's McCloskey

Uh...no it isn't.

i'm not making flip the scapegoat for ALL our problems. but i find his comments funny. basically he said that the good records over 82+ games was dismissed and he was only judged on 10 minutes in game 6.

you're damn right flip. don't you get it that the regular season and early playoffs are just a warmup? ALL that matters is winning when we need to and SHOULD win. and that does NOT include any regular season games.

it refers to 'crunch time'. and this team melted down 3 straight seasons when it was in position to advance. not ALL flip's fault, to be sure. but he's definitely got to share some of that blame.

also LOL at "anybody else who could have come in and done a better job than we did given all the circumstances"



What exactly were the "circumstances" that he's referring to??

i'm not making flip the scapegoat for ALL our problems. but i find his comments funny. basically he said that the good records over 82+ games was dismissed and he was only judged on 10 minutes in game 6.

you're damn right flip. don't you get it that the regular season and early playoffs are just a warmup? ALL that matters is winning when we need to and SHOULD win. and that does NOT include any regular season games.

it refers to 'crunch time'. and this team melted down 3 straight seasons when it was in position to advance. not ALL flip's fault, to be sure. but he's definitely got to share some of that blame.
Sorry Flip, but this is a lot like Kwame talking about how "they wanna kick me out of office because of text messages" as if the text messages themselves had no content.

No, dipshit, you're not being fired because of the last 10 minutes of game 6. You're being fired for what the last 10 minutes of game 6 REPRESENT. Someone's got to ask him - if you were the GM of a team, and you hired a coach who consistently got you seeded 1st or 2nd in the East, and then consistently flared out before reaching the Finals, would you call that guy a success? Or would you call that guy a choke artist?

Uh...no it isn't.


Glenn was the only one who was going to get that and even that was a reach.

That's what the cat from Orlando was calling him on his radio show after McCoskey threatened to kill him.

Gotcha. I did not give a fuck about that so I don't know all the details.

Sorry Flip, but this is a lot like Kwame talking about how "they wanna kick me out of office because of text messages" as if the text messages themselves had no content.

No, dipshit, you're not being fired because of the last 10 minutes of game 6. You're being fired for what the last 10 minutes of game 6 REPRESENT. Someone's got to ask him - if you were the GM of a team, and you hired a coach who consistently got you seeded 1st or 2nd in the East, and then consistently flared out before reaching the Finals, would you call that guy a success? Or would you call that guy a choke artist?
The main thing I dont like about it is that before he got here his rep was a guy who could win regular season games, but not playoff games. Before he got here our rep was a team that floated through the regular season but stepped it up in the playoffs especially late in series. I gotta give him credit for changing the culture. :emo kid:

It's official: the Pistons offseason is now more interesting than the Finals.

"This was a crazy situation," Saunders said. "I am disappointed at not getting to the Finals -- not just getting to the Finals, but not winning a championship. It's a funny thing. You go through all the ebbs and flows of an 82-game schedule, and then you go through a 10-day span in a playoff series where a couple of your guys don't play well and that's basically what you are judged on.

.................................. wow am I glad he's gone. What an idiotic comment in so many ways. I just want to smack him across his twitchy face, Yes, Flip, the playoffs are more important than the regular season. Why the fuck does he sound so shocked by this knowledge?

What he said is the truth, just in its simplest form.
He DID get fired because of a 10-day stretch in which a few players didn't perform.
and basketball is just a sport featuring 10 guys running up and down a court putting a ball in a circle.

It simply wasn't a good time for him to publicly break things down, like it's never a good time to tell die-hard basketball fans that they enjoy a mere game.

In other words, I think it was just a defense mechanism for Flip to put his job in perspective.

.................................. wow am I glad he's gone. What an idiotic comment in so many ways. I just want to smack him across his twitchy face, Yes, Flip, the playoffs are more important than the regular season. Why the fuck does he sound so shocked by this knowledge?
Because his career has always been about the regular season first. In most places that keeps you with a job for a long time. But not here, nor should it have. Thats just his culture, much like being likable but not stern enough to command respect from head strong vets like we have.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2564/desktopbackgroundyg6.png

Personally, I cant fucking wait for this offseason! Let the heads roll...

Flip's not going to get more out of players than what they see in themselves.

Bumping thread for great justice

The Pioneer Press is reporting that Steve Kerr wants to talk to Flip.

Maybe Flip will do us a favor and take Sheed for Amare?

I don't think Flip or Rasheed want anymore to have to do with each other.

Former Pistons coach Flip Saunders is no longer being represented by Cleveland agent Mark Termini. Saunders, fired by the Pistons last week, is still owed $5.4 million. He will be assisted by a personal attorney.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19756908&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21848&rfi=6

I don't think Flip or Rasheed want anymore to have to do with each other.

I know, I should have used green text.

http://markmadsen.com/blog/PermaLink,guid,d8eb0e98-f5fa-49f1-b3ee-9a017405a365.aspx


I cannot believe that Flip Saunders was fired. I cannot believe it. This man can flat out coach and while I hope that the Pistons have success in the future, let's not forget that Flips tenure as head coach of Detroit took the Pistons deep into the playoffs every year. Coaching is not an exact science and it's not easy at the NBA level with mature and grown men all of whom have strong competitive natures. I wish Detroit well, but they lost a gem with Flip.

So Kstat is Mark Madsen?

But to be serious theres nothing wrong with sticking up for your former coach.

Former Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders, dismissed by the Detroit Pistons after they lost to the Boston Celtics in the NBA playoffs, said he has no regrets about not being available when the coaching job at Minnesota, his alma mater, was available a year ago.

"I made a commitment to Detroit and had an obligation to fulfill that contract, and it wouldn't have been fair to them or the players to leave," he said.

Saunders said he was disappointed in not being able to coach the Pistons to an NBA championship, but he was not disappointed in the 179 victories the team recorded during his three seasons in Detroit. He also said he was surprised that he was dismissed.
"Like in many situations, though, maybe some people don't understand the job you've done until you're gone," he said.

Saunders, 52, who resides in Medina and also has a lake home in Minnesota, plans to fish and golf during the coming year, when he'll be paid $5.5 million by the Pistons for the final season of his contract.

"I started coaching when I was 22 years old; that's 31 straight years without stopping," he said. "Now I have an opportunity to do something I haven't had time to do."

Saunders does plan to coach again.

"If it's the right situation with the right ownership and the right people in the right area," he said. "I'm a firm believer that things happen for a reason, but things work out."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_9642630?IADID=Search-www.twincities.com-www.twincities.com&IADID=Search-www.twincities.com-www.twincities.com

:langlois:


Mr. D backed Joe D on coaching switch

Joe Dumars wasn’t the only one with a voice that matters who left The Palace the night of the Pistons’ elimination by Boston saying, “I’d seen enough.” So had his owner.

“Absolutely,” Pistons owner William Davidson told me Wednesday morning. “No question in my mind. And I encouraged Joe to sever the relationship with Flip Saunders.”

Davidson rarely grants interviews, but I was there to get his reaction to his admission into the Basketball Hall of Fame. The announcement was made in April and the induction ceremony will take place in Springfield, Mass., the weekend of Sept. 5-6.

Like many Pistons fans, Davidson is excited about the prospect of summer change as laid out by Dumars and thinks Michael Curry is the ideal choice to take the Pistons in a new direction.

“I love Michael Curry,” he said. “Michael worked for us. He comes in at 6 in the morning. The nice thing is when he was a player here, he established a home. He’s kept that home, so his identification with the area and the team is 100 percent. I have great, great confidence that Michael is going to do a tremendous job.”

I have great, great confidence that Michael is going to do a tremendous job... or else.

Well if Davidson wants you out, that's pretty much good bye.

Billy D's pimp-hand is strong.

Again, it's Mr. D's team and if he thinks Curry will be a better fit for the job than Saunders -- and he may well be, who knows? -- then it is his right and obligation to make a change.

But here's what I know for sure: The Pistons never went into a game or playoff series ill-prepared in the three seasons Saunders coached here.

Maybe he meant to use green.