Major props for Stuckey. Really coming through.

dont agree with this. now we are getting over zealous. billups is still our best pg and my main guy to look for down the stretch.

Billups Mr Bigshot status went to his head. He started taking too much time up top. Dribbling away crucial time when we needed a bucket in the last couple of years.

Stuck isn't given that rope to hang himself with.

CBill takes it on himself when he has 4 teamates(sp?)

Whatever, Billups is more poised on the road and at home, and stuvkey is better on the road with less pressure on him. I also like the billups/stuckey combo too.

rip was 16-16 from the line tonight. that has to be close to a piston playoff record- most FTs made without a miss.....?

hey jameer, how'd that guarantee work out for you? new rule: no guaranteeing playoff wins unless you've actually won a series against a legit nba opponent. magic have won NOTHING and have no business making guarantees against a team like ours. he should've made that guarantee against toronto or something.

I was at the game - great atmosphere. 3 turnovers??? That proves when the Pistons play smart basketball, they can win any game. They weren't the better team tonight, but they worked much, much harder and that's why they won.

I loved watching Rashard Lewis shoot brick after brick. I can't stand that guy.

Also, FYI Glenn, I sat right behind Steven A Smith. He looked grumpy all game. And I couldn't get him to say HOWEVA.

Someone needs to ask Nelson if they're still the better team after getting beat in 5 games... 3 of them without the Pistons' best player.

TURKOGLU! Man, he just keeps messing up. I almost feel bad for the guy.
Most Improved Player

I was at the game tonight. I pretty much went completely fucking nuts.
I nearly passed out on that prince block. I started out screaming NOOOOOO as Hedo was driving, then the block came and I continued, at the same full powered monster yell (cheaaaaa!). I forgot to breath, I was excited, I felt my entire face puff out, and then things started to slow down and get dark. I had to sit down for a few minutes to recover.

The crowd was pretty into it, but the 4th quarter just grew and grew in intensity. Even when Orlando was on a run the Palace was still going nuts.

What the hell was that bestiality halftime show though....

I was at the game tonight. I pretty much went completely fucking nuts.
I nearly passed out on that prince block. I started out screaming NOOOOOO as Hedo was driving, then the block came and I continued, at the same full powered monster yell (cheaaaaa!). I forgot to breath, I was excited, I felt my entire face puff out, and then things started to slow down and get dark. I had to sit down for a few minutes to recover.

The crowd was pretty into it, but the 4th quarter just grew and grew in intensity. Even when Orlando was on a run the Palace was still going nuts.

What the hell was that bestiality halftime show though....

LMAO!

There were, and still are, times when I much rather have Stuck with the ball (instead of CBill) cuz CBill will dribble time away up top thinking he can hoist a 3 from up there.

Stuck knows that if he did that, he'd be on the bench.

Yep. I love that even when Rodney gets the ball with 4-5 seconds left on the clock 25+ feet from the basket, he still manages to get into the paint for a high percentage look. He's really the only guy on this team capable of that (or willing). Everyone else on the team, that's a fadeaway 90+% of the time.

Hopefully Flip saw a glimpse of the Stuckey pick-and-roll offense in the 4th quarter, and allows him to attack in the Conference finals. There is no doubt in my mind that Rodney is the X-Factor for the Pistons in these next rounds. Tonight he showed his ability to break down the D and find people for open shots or score in big situations.

3 turnovers and rip 16-16 from the line compared to +20 turnovers from detroit. this is where we excel. fuck a jameer

Wow i was so skeptical about stuckey at the beg of the season, without him, he wouldnt be here celebrating.

block of the year...maxiell on tyson chandler on an alleyoop or tay's?

tay fsho

2 starts in billups absence = 0 turnovers for mr. stuckey. that's ridiculous for ANY player and he's definitely no longer a rookie; he's a CRITICAL part of our championship run.

Stuckey's pass behind the back was so "naked chicks" I can't even believe it. I think it even caught Tay by surprise, but he finished it ice cold. I think Tay and Stuckey are a good team.

Prince is amazing.

0cKcYvtJB7k

Was at the game. Crowd was loud. Stuckey was the shit. Dyess gives the most effort on the team. Rip can function without Chauncey. I was impressed. Carlos Arroyo didn't play.

I really really want the team to win the title, if nothing else, then for McDyess. Fucker deserves it after what he's been through and the hustle he still puts up.

QUOTE OF THE NIGHT
"Just because I went to a small school doesn't mean nothing. I believe in myself when I step out there. This is why Joe [Dumars] drafted me."

-- Pistons guard Ronald Stuckey, who played his college ball at Eastern Washington.

Ronald? No respect.

Is it bad that I find myself agreeing with Kstat more and more?

Wait, wrong thread.

Where are the Stuckey haters now? Can't play PG huh?

I think he can play point guard, just like Flip Murray can, I just don't think he does a good job of getting others open looks, and therefore is more ideally suited to play SG.

Chauncey really doesn't either in a true sense (with dribble penetration and good passing skills), he does it with his ability to hit jumpers.

You can point to assists and say Stuckey is getting others good looks, but assists don't measure if you created a good shot for your teammate, they measure if the guy you passed it to made whatever shot he took or not (good shot or forced).

Regardless, this is probably not the best time to point out perceived flaws in Stuckey's game. He is playing well and that is all that matters today.

And I fully realize that using Flip Murray as an example is going to make some of your peepee's go "BOING", which is exactly why I did it.

I don't think anybody feels like Stuckey is going to be the next Chris Paul. But, I think he has a higher cieling than Billups does as a PG. He is much quicker than Billups ever was, which allows him to get more open looks for teammates (with experience). The difference is that Flip is a me first player. Stuckey has a different mentality. All he needs is more recognition and he can be a great PG. We'll see.

I think he can play point guard, just like Flip Murray
I stopped reading at this point, because i can't anything after this seriously. :mccosky:

The difference is that Flip is a me first player. Stuckey has a different mentality.

I hope when he's been in the league for 7 years and is in a contract year that he keeps that same mentality.

Maybe he will.

For now, he's helping while Chauncey is out, and it's better than we had last year.

~Vague pessimism~

For now, he's helping while Chauncey is out, and it's better than we had in Flip Murray last year.
Fixed. :)

Glenn's ridiculous.

I hope when he's been in the league for 7 years and is in a contract year that he keeps that same mentality.

Maybe he will.

For now, he's helping while Chauncey is out, and it's better than we had last year.

Are you insinuating that Flip was not a me first player until his contract was up in year 7?

In his first 6 seasons he never averaged 3 assists per game. Even in Cleveland, when he played almost 37 minutes a game he only averaged 2.8 assists...which by the way is almost a full assist worse than Hughes, who is a complete chucker (and Hughes was only 3rd in assists on that team).

On the other hand Stuckey averages 2.8 assists per game on less than 20 minutes per game.

I'm pushing buttons to a certain degree, but to say that anyone here has a firm grasp on what Stuckey's mentality is, or is not, based on such a short amount time is questionable, at best.

No one said that, just said he's more unselfish and BETTER pg and player than Flip and than you give him credit for.

I think what sent me off in this direction was the fact that out of all the posters here, the only one that demonstrated any sense of objectivity when it came to that lucky pass that Stuckey made to Prince, was none other than Kstat.

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=249653&postcount=656

He's just trying to keep some of you grounded in reality. lol

I'm pushing buttons to a certain degree, but to say that anyone here has a firm grasp on what Stuckey's mentality is, or is not, based on such a short amount time is questionable, at best.


No one said that...


Stuckey has a different mentality.

Perhaps you should try to refrain from including your opinion of Flip in your leasons on objectivity.

I think the example is perfectly valid.

Just because someone can play PG, doesn't mean they are ideally suited to do so. Example: Flip Murray

Perhaps, but you must consider the messanger along with the message.

Perhaps, but you must consider the messanger along with the message.

I would argue that you need to do so, not me.

An objective opinion on Flip from your is atypical as you are usually trying to push buttons regarding him. Thus your using him in your object lesson misguided many.

I have considered the messenger.

Fool, did you think that play by Stuckey was fundamentally sound and should be lauded?

It was met with widespread praise, when in actuality it was really poor technique, as only Kstat pointed out.

I think what sent me off in this direction was the fact that out of all the posters here, the only one that demonstrated any sense of objectivity when it came to that lucky pass that Stuckey made to Prince, was none other than Kstat.

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=249653&postcount=656

He's just trying to keep some of you grounded in reality. lol
Kstat really isnt all that objective though. Either way Stuckey looked first and knew where he was passing and that he was before he leaped. Can't say that Rip is planning that far ahead when he jump passes. But there have been times when stuck jump passed when he shouldnt have. Dont think that time counts as that.


I think the example is perfectly bias.

Just because someone can play PG, doesn't mean they are ideally suited to do so. Example: Flip Murray
I know that you're playing Facetious for the fuck of it, so whatever. Either way I'd take stuckey over Earl Watson. [smilie=heatsmiley2:

An objective opinion on Flip from your is atypical as you are usually trying to push buttons regarding him. Thus your using him in your object lesson misguided many.

I have considered the messenger.

Where did I claim that I was being objective?

That's the whole point Glenn. You aren't objective about Flip but you are trying to use your opinion of Flip in a "lesson" to teach us all about "objectivity".

Well, Kstat makes a valid point. However, he never said Stuckey was selfish (which is what Flip is/was). He simply said Stuckey has bad mechanics. I won't argue that his PG skills don't need developing. That kind of stuff can be taught out of him though. My point is you can't compare him to a life time chucker that in his best year was 4th on his team in assists (with 37 MPG).

Billups averaged less than 4 assists per game on 25-30 MPG in his first 4 years in the league. In his last 3 years he's averaged 7.5 assists per game. Nobody thinks he can pass like Nash or Kidd, but he's a solid PG, that is for sure. It's not unrealistic to think that Stuckey can become that type of floor leader, and probably before year 9 (like Billups did).

I thought it was both a bad ass pass and a bad pass. I was surprised Tay caught it at his feet and it didn't go out of bounds and that he made the shot after gathering it.

I also thought it was cool as hell to be able to pull it off and if he gets better at it I don't give a shit how fundametally unsound it is.

The Flip Murray hatred is clouding reason here.

I'm not teaching you a "lesson", I provided you with an example of a player that is considered a PG just because he has played the position, regardless if that position is the best fit for his skill set.

Suspend the hate and you might see the message.

Who here disagreed with Kstat that Stuckey's pass had poor fundamentals? I would say that was pretty obvious. But, his jumping was the reason for Tay's opening, and it worked. I don't condone doing that a lot, even once a game (or three), but it's his creativity there that had me excited. He found a way to get it done. Just don't do it again. lol

As he learns, like wtfchris explains, he will become a better, more sound PG that hopefully can still make creative plays but without the poor fundamentals.

Dear Glenn:

How is the ability and willingness to drive and dish not in the skill set of a point guard?

Granted, he doesn't always know which plays to call, but hardly anyone does in their first year.

The Flip Murray hatred is clouding reason here.

I'm not teaching you a "lesson", I provided you with an example of a player that is considered a PG just because he has played the position, regardless if that position is the best fit for his skill set.

Suspend the hate and you might see the message.

Perhaps you should have compared Stuckey to someone else playing the position who is more of a SG, that isn't a complete chucker. There are plenty of combo guards out there, why pick a chucker?

Here are some more combo guards (some are chuckers, some not):

Gordon
Duhon
Barbosa
Manu
Jack
Arenas
Ellis
Terry
West
Green
Jackson
Barry
Head
James

there are also a lot more PG's that are more of true scorers than creators (like Billups):

Davis, Fisher, Bibby

Dear Glenn:

How is the ability and willingness to drive and dish not in the skill set of a point guard?


It is, but apparently you didn't see him get the ball swatted back in his face a few hundred times (NOTE: THAT'S AN EXAGGERATION) this year when he tried to drive and take it himself into the teeth of the defense.

Like I have been saying, "hopefully" that gets better, but the insistence here that opinion is fact is what rubs me the wrong way, always has.

Perhaps you should have compared Stuckey to someone else playing the position who is more of a SG, that isn't a complete chucker. There are plenty of combo guards out there, why pick a chucker?

BECAUSE IT WAS FUN

The Flip Murray hatred is clouding reason here.

Suspend the hate and you might see the message.
Are you seriously not understanding that your stance on the "Flip Murray hate" makes what you were saying confusing.

I mean that post basically just says what I've been trying to explain to you only I don't think you realize it.

BTW, it's not "hate". Only you think it's hate which is why your opinion isn't objective.

If it was confusing, I'm sorry.

Just trying to mix in a fun example to illustrate my point.

In the spirit of togetherness, I'll try not to be so critical of the unabashed Stuckey admiration.

No promises, though.

I think the Darko experience has changed my perspective on these things.

In the spirit of togetherness, I'll try not to be so critical of the unabashed Stuckey admiration.

No promises, though.

I think the Darko experience has changed my perspective on these things.

And we've come full circle. Any shred of disagreement can always be traced back to Darko.

Person 1: "I think we should invade Iraq"

Person 2: "That's a terrible idea"

Person 1: "Fucking Darko"

MVP of the series is...

Its great to have the entire team playing team ball again. We're hitting on all cylinders.

But the series MVP is either Tay or Rip. Tay has been consistent throughout the series, but Rip stepped up huge when we needed offense in Game 4 when CBill was out.

I guess with Tay game winner and that block last night, I go with Tay, but its close for me.

:mccosky:

Wrapping up the Magic

Where are all those people who were saying, just a few months ago, that Tayshaun Prince had topped out, reached his peak, never be any better than a fourth or fifth option? You would have to agree that he's taken his game up several notches. He does so many things, little things, that lead to wins. The Pistons made an NBA record three turnovers in Game 5, that with a rookie point guard (Rodney Stuckey) playing 33 minutes. Not taking anything away from Stuckey, but Prince was the main reason for that efficiency. He had the ball in his hands more often than Stuckey. He was, for the most part, running the offense and making most of the decisions, from a point-forward spot. His presence also makes it impossible for other teams to trap and pressure a guy like Stuckey. Flip Saunders joked that Prince was able to make that game-saving block because he had been able to get him a lot of rest -- yeah, like exactly three minutes and two seconds. But how can you take him off the floor? Jarvis Hayes replaced Prince for two minutes in the first half and the Pistons were a minus-seven -- In TWO MINUTES?

But here's the freaky thing. What in the world made Prince believe that Hedo Turkoglu was going to go right for that last lay-up attempt? Turk had just beaten Prince twice going to his left, scoring back-to-back layups. But Prince said he was certain he would go to his right the third time, and sure enough, he anticipated the play perfectly and got himself another timeless block. Amazing.

The Magic may go to their grave thinking they were the better team and they "just made mistakes" and the Pistons got all the breaks. But the reality is, they weren't ready. You aren't going to win a conference semifinal series when you have as many turnovers (76) as assists. You aren't going to win any series when you miss 40 free throws in five games. You aren't going to win when your alleged superman treats bounce passes like they are kryptonite. Dwight Howard, for all his improvements, still can't score consistently unless he's dunking the ball. I don't think the Magic will ever be a serious contender with a 5-10 point guard. Listen, Jameer Nelson had a good series. He's as tough and big-hearted as they come. I really respect a lot of things about him. But at the end of the day, he's still too vulnerable at the defensive end. On a championship team, he has to be a sixth man, Ben Gordon type guy. They had two chances to beat the Pistons without Chauncey Billups and couldn't get it done. That's probably going to leave a scar long into the summer for those guys.

I am sure we all will be talking about rust v. rest in the next couple of days. But, with Billups ailing, with Antonio McDyess limping all through Game 5 and with him having to tend to his grandmother's funeral, with Wallace expending so much energy against Howard, with Rip Hamilton and Prince having to shoulder such a heavy load the last two games -- trust me, the team needs the rest. They are playing at a high level right now, and they are a team that can lose their rhtyhm in a blink, but still, rest is best right now.

They are playing at a high level right now, and they are a team that can lose their rhtyhm in a blink, but still, rest is best right now.

Thanks for bringing me down.

I greatly admire Rip's ability to score so consistently, but Tayshaun Prince really made game-deciding plays, repeatedly, that I can't ignore. It's not an emotional choice. If it were an emotional choice, I'd choose McDyess. If I was not thinking clearly at all, I'd give Stuckey more credit than his performance in Game 4 really deserved.

dice's inspired play stemmed from the fact that he just received news that his grandmother died prior to the game.

OK who next in his family do we have to kill to see more of this inspired play? i'm thinking we should start killing off distant relatives, then as the next series progresses, we go for relatives closer to him.

Ouch.

yeah, it was dyess. he destroyed the superstar label on howard and set the tone for the series over 5 games first off the bench then square in their sack with the kind of strength a team like the Magic just couldn't match.

We "outtoughed" them, and Dyess lead the charge broken face first.

as if there was any doubt:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3397694

That's a good thing against Boston.....we'll see against CLE. At least he'll have a sweet excuse.