We're klling ourselves here. Sound familiar?

game over

I'd like to think if we can get Howard off the floor we'll be ok, but he isn't really hurting us.

never say die!

another f'ing 3 pointer?

nevermind... turk with the 3, die

We don't play again till Saturday. Hopefully the Xtra day off will help CBill

Shit, Stuckey's rockin'. Granted, Chauncey runs the offense better, but it's the vets that coughed this one up (Sheed, Rip late).

Jeezus tittyfucking Christ. Evans shot was proof we are not supposed to win here.

Its like we can't get our D to extend to the 3 pt line. Or if we do they get Turk to slash for bucket.

What the fuck was that shit? Howard catces the ball, jumps around without dribbling, makes it and 1? This whole game has been fucking bullshit, but that takes the cake.

I expected it to be a tough game, but doesnt make me take losing easy. But nevertheless just get billups healthy and win game 4 if we cant get this one.

Seriously. Did anyone see that play?

What the fuck was that shit? Howard catces the ball, jumps around without dribbling, makes it and 1? This whole game has been fucking bullshit, but that takes the cake.
To be expected at this point. SVG lobying paid off. A reminder that being a whiner is not a bad label.

Ratliff is fucking worthless, he hasn't done shit all series, fouls on Howard or not.

Seriously. Did anyone see that play?
I saw many plays. One where Howard dip his shoulder into maxiell two str8 times before shooting.

Anywhoooo....

Let's take game 4. That game was all sorts of messed up.

Ratliff has been fairly average. can't get to any layups or rotate. Can't stop dribble penetration and doesnt jump out on the pick and rolls. May need to look at Amir or shift Hermmann down to PF.

This game = ghey. Chauncey. Piston shooting. Magic shooting. Refs. Gimme game 4 already.

I think keeping jarvis on the roster ahead of hunter/dixon hurt us. And Reggie miller is getting more and more obnoxious these days. :( Even Marv Albert thinking "STFU".

i saw a play there a bit ago when Howard was holding Hamilton back by yanking his jersey, then cuts to the basket for a jam... no call...

I'm not concerned about this loss. The Magic shot lights out and I doubt they can keep up that shooting pace next game, not to mention they almost choked up the lead and we didn't even have our best player. Had nothing to do with "focus" or "flipping the switch", Orlando was just hot tonight. Stuckey played well and so did Rip & Tay. Regroup, get Chauncey rested up and go beat their ass on Saturday.

SVG lobying for calls. Works for Phil, and him. You just have to be really aggressive to counter it.

My father had it right when we discussed the series, and he said "Remember, Howard is one of the new darlings of the NBA."

No doubt.

Rashard Lewis just played the best game he will ever have through the remaining duration of his max contract.

Congrats Shard, it's all downhill from here...

I'm not concerned about this loss. The Magic shot lights out and I doubt they can keep up that shooting pace next game, .
If we leave them open they can. They had no trouble lighting up open shots on Toronto. So I dont look at this as luck. We gotta make sure we improve our perimeter defense.

Its like we can't get our D to extend to the 3 pt line. Or if we do they get Turk to slash for bucket.

LET HIM, HE IS TOO DAMN EURO TO SUCCEED!
Game 3 Brought to you by David Stern.

its too bad they came apart in the fourth quarter. we came back pretty impressively with a good contribution from our bench up thru the 3rd. i guess some positives coming out of it was that Flip was forced to lean on some bench players and they did alright, Sheed didn't get T'd up, and it should be an easy decision to have Jarvis as inactive so Hunter or Dixon can be available. I would go with Hunter, IMO.

They'll probably deactivate Amir...

lols.

Amir's pretty useless right now. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

In fact, he's so useless that I forgot about him. Yeah, I suppose the outside chance that Hayes can get a streak going would make him more valuable than Amir right now.

If we leave them open they can. They had no trouble lighting up open shots on Toronto. So I dont look at this as luck. We gotta make sure we improve our perimeter defense.


True. Theres something to be said when pieces of shit like Keyon Dooling are getting wide open looks, I'm not worried about something like that being adressed next game.

I just don't understand how losing Chauncey suddenly constitutes into a major shuffling of the entire bench. Too much of Theo, and not enough of McDyess tonight. Jarvis made a worthless cameo, and while I love Valter's effort, he's pretty much useless offensively.

Anybody else notice that we aren't making any 3's? I don't want to rely on it like Orlando does, but when they make a 3, and we only come back with 2's, we're not gaining anything...

Flip on CBill: "We're shooting for him to play on Saturday"

If they keep shooting threes and we get our 2 points at the FT line, I'll take that any day.

Anybody else notice that we aren't making any 3's? I don't want to rely on it like Orlando does, but when they make a 3, and we only come back with 2's, we're not gaining anything...


I saw both Prince and Stuckey hesitant when they had good looks at 3's.

I saw both Prince and Stuckey hesitant when they had good looks at 3's.

Me too. I know why Stuckey isn't going to shoot that ball, he has some confidence issues with his jump shots, but Tay has no excuse...

If you have a choice between taking an open 3 and taking the ball to the rim, you take it to the rim.

What pisses me off, is that some cunt is going to write how Orlando should be up 2-1 in this series in a local newspaper.

If you have a choice between taking an open 3 and taking the ball to the rim, you take it to the rim.


Yeah, it's not worth killing 'em on it, just something I noticed. If we're going to drive to the rim though, I'd like to see them finish rather than flipping it up and letting Dwight get a palm on it...

I have enough confidence in Stuckey and the rest of the guys to keep CBill out on Saturday. I think we could win a game in Orlando without him.

Worst case, we come home tied 2-2. If we come home 3-1, rest CBill the next game too.

We need him HEALTHY vs Bos/Cle winner.

honestly i think we lose even if billups hadn't got injured. and as crazy as it sounds i think we should rest him for game 4 anyway. (although i doubt he can be ready for it anyway)

but stuckey showed he is more than capable of running the team and hurting the magic.

what lost us this game was the fact that we dug a hole early on and played the whole game trying to catch up.

we forced some really bad shots early in the game and then some silly turnovers and poor shot selection late when we were trying to close the game. we let them go on a run and let it get out of control.

our D was horrible (38 points given up in the 4th quarter after closing it to 4 points....?) and we did not contest shots like we should have.

but seriously- this is a team we can definitely beat even without billups. we just need to play our game.

another thing i noticed- FAR too much standing around on offense. we let 10 seconds run off the clock while we hold the ball and look around with NO movement by anyone else. that's a complete waste and leads to us forcing up poor shots late in the shot clock instead of moving the ball to the open guy and/or driving to the hole.

when howard is not in the game, we should be driving to the hole non-stop.

wait, is Chauncey for sure out on Saturady Tahoe??? (I didn't see Flip's post game presser)

I think we could win w/o him, it just wouldn't come as easy obvioulsy, but I'd still much rather see him play...

agree 100%. an added bonus to 'resting' billups (or really just letting him get healthy and not rushing him back) is that stuckey is playing and gaining valuable experience in a larger role. there were times tonight when he was our best player on the floor.



I have enough confidence in Stuckey and the rest of the guys to keep CBill out on Saturday. I think we could win a game in Orlando without him.

Worst case, we come home tied 2-2. If we come home 3-1, rest CBill the next game too.

We need him HEALTHY vs Bos/Cle winner.

Wil....No, Flip said they're shooting for him to play on Saturday, but they need to give these things a day to see how sore he really is. He said he is sore right now, but we'll have to see.

i don't think he's out 'for sure' but it's hard to imagine him being ready with an injury like that. it needs time to heal as it can very easily be re-aggravated and re-injured if he comes back too quick.

just looking at the injury i would guess he could be out for some time and to bring him back sooner is unwise if he's not 100%. but hopefully he can come back sooner if arnie can work his magic again.

in any case i think we NEED to take the cautious approach as we don't need him to win this series.

I agree with most of what you said bout CBill too, but that last line about when Howard is out we should take it to the hole.

I wouldn't change one damn thing with that guy. Go to the hole wheneve we want. I don't think he is good enough for us to have to make that kind of adjustments on.

If they keep shooting threes and we get our 2 points at the FT line, I'll take that any day.
Shooting 3's is not an issue, wide open ones are.

true except that our guys are not the best at finishing in the lane to begin with. and from what i've seen so far, we do not finish well with him in there- we are getting blocked or being forced to just throw the ball up there as he contests it.

you're right- sometimes the best thing is to go right at a shot blocker. but we have few finishers who i feel comfortable doing that with. for example......rip? good lord no- he can't finish on his own, much less when howard is coming at him.

what we need to do is take guys off the dribble- mr. stuckey i'm talking to you! and then swarm the lane and DISH. but even then it can be problematic as we saw tonight. we need to maintain our composure under pressure, that's all.

that will allow us to see the floor and make sound decisions- and often times it's something as simple as a PUMP FAKE and then either dish or go up, OR draw contact and get to the line. we seem to be rushing things a bit when we are in that situation right now.

hopefully a good film session will open our eyes a bit.


I agree with most of what you said bout CBill too, but that last line about when Howard is out we should take it to the hole.

I wouldn't change one damn thing with that guy. Go to the hole wheneve we want. I don't think he is good enough for us to have to make that kind of adjustments on.

True. Theres something to be said when pieces of shit like Keyon Dooling are getting wide open looks, I'm not worried about something like that being adressed next game..
I wouldnt be either if this wasnt the second str8 game we let it happen.

howard should have broken his leg when he was in there with 2 minutes left and they were up by 20.

that's not to say i wish anything bad on the kid, of course. just that i hate van gundy and want his blood for such coaching decisions. and for just generally being a prick.

Sheed needs to start at center next game.

If he picks up quick fouls, so be it. But he can't be guarding Rashard Lewis anymore.

Piston in 5 now that the League game is out of the way.

Stuckey did a great job of getting his own, maybe the best that I have seen him in that regard, but the kid is not a PG. I can't recall seeing him get someone else an open look, and that's not going to fly as a PG.

I think he'll eventually make Rip expendible once this PG experiment is over.

So here's where I wish we had a solid #2 PG, one that can stop dribble penetration and get others open looks. I don't think I need to mention any names.

Hopefully Billups is good to go for game #2, because I think we'll see a steady dose of Lindesy Hunter if he is not.

Oh, and I guarantee that there are Tragic fans out there thinking and saying that the Billups injury was karma.

Sheed was -30

Billups' health might now hold key to series
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

Updated: May 8, 2008

ORLANDO -- Fans commonly say one needn't start watching an NBA game until the very end. Sorry to disappoint, but if you missed the first five minutes of Game 3 between the Orlando Magic and Detroit Pistons, you missed everything.

The Magic landed a 20-3 haymaker to start the game en route to a 111-86 rout of Detroit on Wednesday night that closed their best-of-seven Eastern Conference semifinal series to 2-1 in favor of the Pistons.

More importantly, Detroit guard Chauncey Billups went down 3:49 into the game with a strained right hamstring, a potentially series-altering injury that removed the Pistons' best player from the floor for the final 44 minutes.

Billups left without talking to the media, but the Pistons are hopeful he'll be ready in time for Saturday's Game 4.

"We're shooting for him to play on Saturday," said Detroit coach Flip Saunders. "It's sore right now [and] we won't know for the next 24 hours where he's really at, but all indications are we're shooting for him to go on Saturday."

Not that his absence altered the outcome of Game 3 much. Even in the first four minutes with Billups out there, it was obvious Orlando was the more energetic team tonight. The Magic blocked two of Detroit's first three shots, got a pure hustle offensive rebound from Maurice Evans (credited as a team rebound in the box score) and held Detroit to one measly basket in the first four minutes -- all before Billups left the game.

"It wasn't Chauncey ," said Pistons guard Richard Hamilton. "We were still down big early. [B]I thought we didn't do a good job of trying to get to the basket; I thought we settled for jump shots." Duh.

"The two biggest factors were our start and Chauncey's injury," said Magic coach Stan Van Gundy. "You can't negate that. He's not only a great player but he's their leader and he runs everything."

Actually, there was one other big factor: Detroit had no answer whatsoever for Rashard Lewis. He earned every cent of his $118 million tonight with 33 points on 11-of-15 shooting, including 5-of-6 on 3-pointers, to go with six rebounds, five assists and two steals.

As an added plus, Detroit's Rasheed Wallace seemed uncomfortable chasing him around the 3-point line and spent much of the game in foul trouble. In fact, Lewis is changing Detroit's matchups in this series -- the Pistons again used Walter Herrmann far more than usual (12:57 tonight) because they needed to match up small against Orlando.

"Just like we have some matchup problems with them, Rashard is a tough guy to guard out on the perimeter," Van Gundy said. "He was knocking down shots, and then you get up on him and he gets a chance to drive the ball. He was terrific today."

Yet the Magic's fine effort takes a backseat to the big questions du jour from the Detroit end: Will Billups play, and if so when? When he does, how limited will he be? And either way, how does it change the course of this series?

Working in his favor is that Billups gets two days off to recuperate. Also, Detroit's record with its players recuperating from injuries is absolutely amazing. Trainer Arnie Kander is widely regarded as the league's best, and he's one reason the Pistons have stayed almost comically injury-free the past half-decade.

Yet one wonders how Detroit can fare if its best player is either limited or absent in the next week and a half. In his place, rookie Rodney Stuckey came in and was torched almost immediately by Orlando's Jameer Nelson. Stuckey permitted him nine first-quarter points and fouled him twice before getting yanked in favor of Arron Afflalo.

Once he returned, Stuckey played much better, and he finished with 19 points. He also helped the Pistons push the pace much more than we're used to seeing, with Detroit scoring 20 fast-break points. He even helped Detroit get the game back within four points at the end of the third quarter before another Lewis-fueled Orlando run put the game away.

Nonetheless, Stuckey is hardly an equivalent replacement for ruthlessly efficient Billups. In the first two games, Billups toyed with the Magic -- he had 47 points and only two turnovers while shooting 18-for-19 from the line. Without him, Detroit's offense too often degenerated into jumpers from Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince.

"We were trying to ride Rip and Tay a lot, but that sucked some energy out of them," Saunders said. The two combined to play 85 minutes and took 34 of Detroit's 77 shots.

"Now they know what it's like not to have a point guard," joked an Orlando scribe with me at halftime. But the difference is Detroit doesn't have Dwight Howard -- who was quietly dominant with 20 points, 12 boards, six blocks and at least as many strong challenges -- to make up for it.

"[The point guard] matchup has been huge for us," Saunders said. "It's probably best we have a couple days to get [Billups] some rest, but also to have another plan in case he doesn't play."

Indeed, the Pistons will have to look hard at Plan B options even if Billups says he can go; hamstring injuries seem to come back like weeds. For instance, look for Detroit to activate Lindsey Hunter next game instead of either Jarvis Hayes or Amir Johnson, and expect Saunders to put in more plays that start with the ball in Prince's capable hands.

However, a far better option is Plan A -- having a healthy Billups on the court. If that option isn't available, this series may have changed dramatically.

wow. i STRONGLY disagree with that. while i agree the kid has a lot to learn he VERY often has shown me he can get open looks for other players.

he is more of a combo guard than a true PG because of his scoring ability. but he's not only very unselfish, he's a good creator too. OK he still has a lot to learn about running the team, true. but i'm surprised to see that said about him actually.

OK just re-read that. if you were talking about just this game, specifically then i can see the point. but in general terms he's a very good passer and has shown he can create easy shots for others IMO.

I don't understant why we didn't have Sheed/J-Max/Theo punish Lewis in the post like he was punishing us outside the arc. We did a good job with Tay and Stuckey posting up in the third, and theat brought us to within 3. But Lewis cannot defend in the post, and continuing to go to whoever he was guarding would have frustrated him enough to throw him off of his game like it did in game 1.

I don't expect that kind of performance from him or the entire Magic team again. I fully expect to be headed to Detroit up 3-1, Billups or no Billups.

Sheed needs to start at center next game.

If he picks up quick fouls, so be it. But he can't be guarding Rashard Lewis anymore.

I agree. Shard is way to "swifty" for Sheed to cover, I think your better off having Tay on Shard and putting either Rip or Dyess on Hedo, Hedo's not going to drive to the basket very often unlike Shard

OK just re-read that. if you were talking about just this game, specifically then i can see the point. but in general terms he's a very good passer and has shown he can create easy shots for others IMO.


it's John Hollinger, his opinions have no value...

Stuckey did a great job of getting his own, maybe the best that I have seen him in that regard, but the kid is not a PG. I can't recall seeing him get someone else an open look, and that's not going to fly as a PG.

I think he'll eventually make Rip expendible once this PG experiment is over.

So here's where I wish we had Earl Watson.

the thing is, stuckeys jumpshot is nowhere as good as rips, and rip has the most consistent jumper on our team. yea hes a shitty ballhandler, but replacing him will be hard. i know the leagues changing to the superstar type where u need to get to the line, ie kobe bron dwade, but fk that shit.

Stuckey did a great job of getting his own, maybe the best that I have seen him in that regard, but the kid is not a PG. I can't recall seeing him get someone else an open look, and that's not going to fly as a PG.

I think he'll eventually make Rip expendable once this PG experiment is over.

So here's where I wish we had a solid #2 PG, one that can stop dribble penetration and get others open looks. I don't think I need to mention any names.

Hopefully Billups is good to go for game #2, because I think we'll see a steady dose of Lindesy Hunter if he is not.
Wow can't begin to agree with this. Actually I think you sell out on Stuck as a pg way too early. He actually sees the floor very well imo and his assists are that far off per minute to cbill's in his early career. Again its still a process of improved decision making to me, much like finishing more layups and knowing when to settle for mid range jumpers instead of going into shot blocking territory. I think he is Billups back up whether you are a fan of it or not. I also think that he's better off at PG where he's a tougher matchup to deal with.

Alot of what you say about his being better at getting his own shot could easily be said of billups early in his career(he didn't really break out as a facilitator until he got here). So I dont think you jump ship on him at pg, nor that its an experiment.

I thought that was the most idiotic article ever, then I realized it was by Hollinger. His "being a cunt" mojo is actually becoming more than a joke. He's really getting worse and worse in his assessment of anything basketball.

Alot of what you say about his being better at getting his own shot could easily be said of billups early in his career(he didn't really break out as a facilitator until he got here). So I dont think you jump ship on him at pg, nor that its an experiment.
So what you're saying is, bring back Larry Brown?

No, I'm saying be patient. Stuckey can be help at PG while learning to be more well rounded just like Billups was. The whole "experiment wash" notion it more premature than a first stage fetus.

:mccosky:

On Billups and other stuff

Physical therapist Arnie Kander sounded a lot more optimistic about Chauncey Billups playing Saturday than Billups did. Which is understandable since Billups is the one who is in pain. But I have learned over these many, many years to err on the side of Kander. When he's pessimistic about an injury, he doesn't usually say anything. He's a straight-shooter and not one to give false hope publicly. If he's optimistic, then there is a good chance of him getting Billups ready.

The concern, though, is that Billups said he "felt something" when he got stretched out. He didn't say it felt like a pop, just that he felt something. Kander was adamant that it wasn't a pop. Hamstring's, especially those of a strong athlete, don't pop on a slow stretch. They pop when you are moving or being moved at a high velocity. Kander was fairly certain that what Billups was feeling was soreness, not a tear. Obviously, they will see how the leg responds to treatment in the next day or more before they make a final decision on his availability for Game 4.

Talking to Rasheed Wallace before practice Thursday, just casually, not an interview situation, but he brought up an interesting point. After Game 2, he made an odd comment to us about how he would be interested to see how the league handled the elbow that Dwight Howard threw in Game 2. We didn't know what he was talking about. None of us had seen it, but apparently, Howard nailed Arron Afflalo in the mouth with a full-on shiver sometime during the game. Wallace said the referees ignored it, but he was hoping the TV networks would jump on it. Didn't happen. I still haven't seen a replay of it. But to Sheed, it only fueled his point about the league taking care of its Golden Boys. Not a word was said against Howard. Not a word was said against LeBron James for throwing elbows and even bumping an official in the Washington series. But the league suspends Darius Songalia for a playoff game for bumping James.

Sheed does have a bit of a persecution complex. He still calls himself the league's public enemy No. 1. But on this particular issue, I think he's spot-on. I've been writing about it since 2006 when, in my judgment, Dwyane Wade was given special treatment against the Pistons and Mavericks. I don't know if it's done subconsciously or if David Stern is sending out memos about protecting the superstars (I highly doubt it), but certain players get preferential treatment. That's almost indisputable.

How McCosky's third paragraph was before it was edited:


Talking to Rasheed Wallace before practice Thursday, just casually, not an interview situation, you know because we're freinds, and we talk all the time, mostly because I know a lot about basketball, more than you at least, but he brought up an interesting point. After Game 2, he made an odd comment to us about how he would be interested to see how the league handled the elbow that Dwight Howard threw in Game 2. We didn't know what he was talking about, except I did, but I played dumb so the rest of my peers wouldn't feel stupid, because I'm better than you. None of us had seen it, (except me, just to reiterate) but apparently, Howard nailed Arron Afflalo in the mouth with a full-on shiver sometime during the game. Wallace said the referees ignored it, but he was hoping the TV networks would jump on it. Didn't happen. I still haven't seen a replay of it on TV, but my memory is so good that I can remember anything anyone ever says or does in front of me which makes me an amazing analyst. But to Sheed, it only fueled his point about the league taking care of its Golden Boys. Not a word was said against Howard. Not a word was said against LeBron James for throwing elbows and even bumping an official in the Washington series. But the league suspends Darius Songalia for a playoff game for bumping James. Which obviously I wouldn't do if I were commish, and I should be, because let's be honest, I'm much smarter about basketball than you, and that's why I write for the News, and you don't, so don't question me. I also talk on the radio.


I can't stand the way this guy writes or even speaks. It's like he has to prove that he's better every single time he writes.

For all we know we may draft a full time PG by the time Billups is gone. There are some good defensive minded PG's in college to choose from now (that would be good Hunter replacements) that might develop in a couple years.

But I have faith in Stuckey learning to be a better passer. Billups isn't even that great of a passer himself. most of his assists are off curls for RIP, pick and pops to Sheed, etc. They aren't exactly the same assists that CP3, Nash and Parker are dishing out.

Billups is simply efficiant. He isn't breaking down teams and creating.

For all we know we may draft a full time PG by the time Billups is gone. There are some good defensive minded PG's in college to choose from.

But I have faith in Stuckey learning to be a better passer. Billups isn't even that great of a passer himself. most of his assists are off curls for RIP, pick and pops to Sheed, etc. They aren't exactly the same assists that CP3, Nash and Parker are dishing out.


I agree, I think Stuckey has the talent (although it's raw) to be a complete PG. He's got the size to be dominant for the position and he's a solid defender, he makes his FT's, and the one other thing I like about Stuckey that Chauncey doesn't do, is Stuckey is much faster getting the ball up the floor.

When Chauncey get's the ball in bounds, the shot clock is at 18 before he even gets across half court, but when Stuckey takes it up, its at 21 or 20...

I skimmed over the last couple of pages.

Stuckey has the skills to be a complete PG. IIRC, Zeke only averaged 6 assts his first year or 3. Stuckey is as much a true PG as CBill is, imo with one huge advantage. Stuckey wins that first step where CBill is more of a power PG. I'd rather have a quick pg like Stuck.

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - Chauncey Billups said Thursday he was still sore, a night after he was forced to leave the Pistons' loss to Orlando in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference semifinals because of a strained right hamstring.
The All-Star guard said he isn't sure if he will be ready to play in Game 4 on Saturday in Orlando. The Magic's 111-86 victory Wednesday cut the Pistons' lead to 2-1.
"Just going to take it one day at a time and see what happens," Billups said. "But it's feeling sore, kind of similar to last night."
Billups was in the trainer's room all night, and expected to be there all day Thursday. He was injured when his feet got caught up with Magic guard Jameer Nelson on a drive to the basket four minutes into the game. "I felt a little something," Billups said. "I'm just hoping it was a strain, what I felt. But I felt something in there. I never really had a hamstring like this before."

i don't want to be chicken little but knowing billups past, judging from what i saw, and from what i'm hearing now........ i think billups is done for this series. at least.

i just don't see him getting back into playing shape in less than 10 days, at best.

hopefully i'm wrong but as i said before, this is an injury that takes time and even if it's 'just' a strain......i have a hard time seeing him out there and being effective anytime soon. he will just reaggravate it if he tries to push it too much.

i'm not putting any hopes in him coming back and helping us for this series but maybe that's just my ever-pessimistic side coming out.

I'll be at game 5
So, if someone storms the court and chokes a ref out, it was me.

Sounds like Chauncey's game 4 playing status is tenuous, at best.

Also, I moved the "Rip opt out" discussion to a new thread. (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12441)

Also, I made a "Rip opt out" discussion out of two posts in a new thread. (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12441)
fixed.

Magic vs. Pistons

Tim Povtak of the Orlando Sentinel: (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-dwightimpact09a08may09,0,228955.story) "The rise of Howard -- from an 18-year-old No. 1 draft pick directly from high school into a budding phenom who made the All-NBA first team Thursday -- has led directly to the Magic's rise in prominence both within the league and around Central Florida. 'A player like Dwight creates the opportunity to sell hope,' said Alex Martins, Magic chief operating officer. 'True business success doesn't happen in this league until you win, but Dwight has been our building block, both on and off the court.'"
Chris McCosky of The Detroit News: (http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/pistonsblog/index.cfm?blogid=1361) "Talking to Rasheed Wallace before practice Thursday, just casually, not an interview situation, but he brought up an interesting point. After Game 2, he made an odd comment to us about how he would be interested to see how the league handled the elbow that Dwight Howard threw in Game 2. We didn't know what he was talking about. None of us had seen it, but apparently, Howard nailed Arron Afflalo in the mouth with a full-on shiver sometime during the game. Wallace said the referees ignored it, but he was hoping the TV networks would jump on it. Didn't happen. I still haven't seen a replay of it. But to Sheed, it only fueled his point about the league taking care of its Golden Boys."
A. Sherrod Blakely of Booth Newspapers: (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/05/hamilton_approaching_top_of_pi.html) "Following Wednesday's 24-point effort in Detroit's 111-86 Game 3 loss, Hamilton has 2,219 points in the playoffs as a Piston -- just 42 behind the franchise leader, Isiah Thomas. He also is inching up on Bill Laimbeer's franchise-record for playoff games (113). Hamilton has played in 108 for Detroit, which ties him for fourth all-time on the franchise's leader list, with Vinnie Johnson. 'That's crazy to me,' said Hamilton, who scored a playoff career-high 40 points in Detroit's Game 5 series-clinching win over Milwaukee in 2006. 'When you look at guys like Isiah, and Joe (Dumars, Detroit's president of basketball operations) and all the good players that played, it's a great accomplishment.'"

just read that flip is even considering using amir on rashard lewis a bit, due to his length, athleticism, and quickness.

that would be interesting for a little bit.

Hmm, I was thinking that Amir was going to be inactive in favor of Lindsey/Dixon.

Even if Chauncey tries to play, you probably need one of Lindsey/Dixon active just in case CB can't continue.

:mccosky:

"The moustache of disdain" in rare form...


No more Orlando radio
Note to self: Don't ever, ever, ever go on an Orlando sports talk radio show again. Outside of the newspaper guys who cover the Magic on a daily basis -- good, hard-working, competent lads all -- there is a real provincial, homeristic approach to the media down here. I remember back in 2003 after the Magic went up 3-1, a local radio reporter closed the post-game interview with Tracy McGrady by gushing, "Good luck, Tracy."

Even this year, whenever one of the Orlando foofs asks a question to a Piston, it's usually something like, "How good is Dwight Howard now?" Or, "Are you surprised at how well the Magic are playing against you guys?" The tone of the questioning is always, don't you love us? It's gross, really.

So I go on this talk radio show down here Thursday afternoon. I thought they wanted a Chauncey Billups update. But no, this guy -- I don't remember his name -- says, "Now that the Magic have control of the series..." And I stopped him. Control of the series? How does being down 2-1 with two games still to be played in Detroit give the Magic control of the series. But, you know his line, the Magic were robbed in Game 2 by the evil clock guy in Detroit (nevermind the Magic wetting themselves down the stretch, making two buckets in six minutes, or their 19 turnovers) and they killed the Pistons in Game 3 and Billups was questionable, blah, blah, blah. It was his show, so I tried to be diplomatic. I said from the Magic point of view, sure, they probably feel like the tide had turned. But I said the Pistons didn't feel that way at all. Well, the jackass just couldn't accept that. He must asked me three more times, in three different ways, if the Pistons feared the Magic now. I was like, Dude, they have a healthy respect for the Magic, they always have. But they don't fear them. My God, get a grip.

I was thinking about this -- early in the series, the Magic players made a big deal about not being intimidated by the Pistons, not backing down and all that. But where did that come from? The Pistons never talked like they were out to punk the Magic. They never talked like they didn't respect them. The Pistons were actually surprised that the Magic had that mind-set. So where did it come from? It came from the Magic's own inferiority complex. They are the ones who felt punked. Their media buys into it and perpetuates it. Even this half-baked talk show guy was all, "I'm going to stand up to this Detroit writer. I am going to show how tough I am." Whatever.

Here's how tough this guy was. He apparently kept ripping on me AFTER I was off the air. Real braveheart, this guy. He had no retort when I was talking to him, but boy, he tore me up when he knew I couldn't answer back. Piece of work. But that's how they roll down here.

On another topic:

Coaches and players like to say that a playoff series doesn't really start until somebody wins a road game. Does that make any sense? If that was true then the Atlanta-Boston series never started. If that was true, then we're still waiting for both conference semifinals to start -- the home teams have won every game so far. Just a weird axiom that has crept into NBA-speak that boggles the mind when you actually think about it.

That's how they roll? Did :mccosky: just adopt a 14 year old son?

actually if anyone gets bumped, it better damn well be jarvis. its one thing to bitch about time. its a whole other to lay pathetic eggs when you do see the court unable to even do the one thing you actually do right. .

actually if anyone gets bumped, it better damn well be jarvis. its one thing to bitch about time. its a whole other to lay pathetic eggs when you do see the court unable to even do the one thing you actually do right. .


Agree. While I appreciated his 27 pt performance Vs. the Hornets this season, I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if Wednesday was his final minutes in a Pistons uni.

i have to disagree with that sentiment, simply because i enjoy seeing him as our new 'human victory cigar'.



Agree. While I appreciated his 27 pt performance Vs. the Hornets this season, I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if Wednesday was his final minutes in a Pistons uni.

i have to disagree with that sentiment, simply because i enjoy seeing him as our new 'human victory cigar'.
Well when injuries hit, human victory cigars need to get the fuck off the roster. :)

My Official Predicition...

Pistons 91

Magic 87

Chauncey- doesn't play

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Detroit Pistons guard Chauncey Billups won't play in Game 4 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Orlando Magic on Saturday.

Pistons coach Flip Saunders says Billups wouldn't be effective because of a sore hamstring. The All-Star strained it on Thursday after getting tied up under the basket with an Orlando player.

With Billups out, the Pistons are activating guards Lindsey Hunter and Juan Dixon. Rookie Rodney Stuckey was effective in Game 3 and is expected to start in place of Billups, who is third in career playoff scoring for the franchise.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3390053

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3390053

According to Blakely, Johnson will be deactivated. I would guess it would remain that way the rest of the series, barring another injury.

if we win, do we sit chauncey again in game 5? i think so.

but let's take care of business in game 4 first. i don't know why we keep putting dice on lewis.

that's now 2 out of bounds plays clearly off howard and yet the magic get the ball.

sheed and rip just keep throwing the ball away by trying dumb passes. COME ON GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!

TAYSHAUN'ED!

oh what a block by prince on evans! he did it again!

The pace of this game is madness...... We need to slow it down on our end at least.

fuck rip! you don't have to shoot it every time you touch it!

nice steal rip- let's slow it down and move the ball. and a nice J by rip. 2 point game.

nice drive by tay. tie game!

nice ball movement- prince for 3!

Hunter making a difference ion defense making Dooling have to work to get past the halfcourt line. makes we wonder if we should slip in some pressure traps at some point.

OH MAH LORD, JARVIS HIT A SHOT.

a hayes 3! OMG! this pace is way too fast right now. we need to control the tempo.

we need to get more stuff going at the rim and getting to the line.

tempo to the magic's liking. not good.

Rip says go fuck yourself Dooling.

come on stuckey- you know you're in foul trouble and you give them a cheap foul like that!

back to the bench again but now with 3 fouls.

Jarvis actually fucks himself. they go right after him. on the one play he supposedly played good defense, on the replay you see him holding the jersey. then dude bricks a 4 foot post shot so bad you might have though it was a 50 foot shot.

come on stuckey- you know you're in foul trouble and you give them a cheap foul like that!

back to the bench again but now with 3 fouls.
he was in place to take the charge, got greedy trying to swipe the ball.

Isn't Chauncey supposed to have stylish suits? What's with the bellhop jacket?

I wouldnt be oppsed to playing affalo instead of hunter.

Do Tayshaun's arms look a little bigger or am I losing it?

Nice to see we start the 2nd half the same way we finished the first.

How are we not going inside and slowing this damn game down?

And is it me or is Orlando just like a college team: They score in bunches, live on the 3 pt line, only really have one big guy and play much better at home.

And how is it that I, least of all posters on this site, am monologuing on a Pistons playoff thread no less.

Stuckey looking like a rookie in the playoffs...whoulda thunk it.

Hunter the scoring machine!!!

hunter is a fuckin' soldier i tell you!!!!!!

WTF ! this is retro Lindsey! lets get Sheed going and we win this!

stuckey has done well he's just been in foul trouble. 2 of the fouls were bad calls too IMO.

how do we let evans have such an open look at 3 to tie it at the end of the third?

well at least it's tied but you know they're going to go on a crazy run again. so we have to be ready to weather the storm.

Great 3rd quarter. Who was that old man playing point out there btw?

I love how we've made this ugly.

THIS is piston basketball! up 6 with 8 to go. that clock can't run out fast enough!

^ Good observation DE.

and btw Fuck Dwight Howard.

that's a HORSESHIT call! that is not even close to a offensive foul on prince. of course it's joey crawford who burns us with the BS call again!!!!!!

good evans- stay your ass down. that's what you get for floppin on the play before!

Mo Evans is trying out for the Spurs next year.

lindsey hunter is a piston hall of famer.

put hermann in for a minute. let him guard the turk and put prince on lewis. that is the best option right now IMO.

Holy shit, they didn't call that on Sheed??!!

we're controlling this game right now but we're only up 5. we have to be so careful because you just know they're going to come alive and hit some shots down the stretch. they can't keep missing as many as they have lately.

so we need to have good rotations, keep rebounding the ball well, and then on offense have better ball movement. this iso crap while the other 4 guys stand still is not going to work.

and is lewis is on sheed we have to post him up FCOL! then if they double, we kick it out and reverse the ball to the open man. that allows us to shoot an open shot, or get the defender off balance. then we can drive and dish or just get a wide open shot.

nothing retro about lindsey, he just plays w/o fear. wish stuckey would shoot w/o fear when they play that far off of him.they dont respect our backup pg's jump shots. gotta make them pay.

oh man this last 5:32 can't go quick enough. we CANNOT lost this game down the stretch! come on pistons!

feed sheed!!!!!!

What happened between Dice and Howard? There was a double technical foul?

couple of nice hustle plays by dice to get offensive boards!

"Best back to the basket man in the building." Kelso's the man.

That was not a playoff foul...

third bullshit foul call against stuckey. poor kid isn't being allowed to play at all tonight.

fuck me. 2 point game.

Why don't y'all hit the chat room then I won't have to keep refreshing the page.

I don't feel like typing much but wouldn't mind reading.

Cmon Tay, make the choice.

hilarious. dooling bulls his way through mcdyess and kicks it out for a 3. they're up 1. if anything should be a charge THAT should've been.

i love the inconsistency of the refs. we cna't win like this.

Hunter just got ran over on the other end. ..... No call, naturally.

Chat mofos

this is going to hurt bad if we lose. this is a guy we were controlling and a 3-1series lead would put us in the driver's seat going home.

now if they tie it at 2-2, it's a whole new series. we need some big plays down the stretch to win. but i don't like the way things are going right now.

atta boy rip. nice move to get to the line.

BTW- chat doesn't work for me for some reason. i keep getting an 'error' thingie when i try to enter.....? suggestions?

come on D!!!!!!!!! need a big stop here.

for fucks sake. how can we leave him for another open 3?

DRay, High Chat

oh rip!!!!!! what a clutch shot over the 2 shot blockers!

damn we needed a score there!

We CANT STOP THE EURO SLASHER

Um, flagrant?

how does dooling keep getting away with an extra shot after the foul has already been called?

OK, they t'd him up. finally!

and rip misses the tech. nice.

omfg rip, whyyyyyy

chat isn't working for me for some reason. is it my computer or am i just not welcome? lol

man they love to blow those whistles. that was NOT a foul on nelson. BS

dice with another HUGE play to keep it alive and prince hit the running J to give us a 1 point lead!

Good thing Sheed showed up for the fourth quarter.

the damn refs better swallow their whistles on this last posession. i'll go crazy if they put orlando at the line to win it on a BS call.

man i hope they turn it over or something. come on D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm trembling....

It's not like that missed technical ft would help us right now, but can't fault him too much Rip has played great tonight.

we need to box out and watch out for a putback on a missed shot. come on D!

DEEEETROIT wins!!!!!!!!!!!!! foul call is on the magic.

LOL @ letting the soft euro drive at (no foul time)

3-1 baby!!!!!!!!!!!!

heroes of the game:

hunter
rip
sheed
prince
dice

everyone came up big.

Rip won that one for us late. Lucky us.

rip must really be close to the alltime pistons playoff scoring title by now....

I'm giving the hero award to both Rip and Dyess.

Anyone know what happened b/t Dyess and Howard I missed it.

What a fun second half. Changes when you're only big man isn't playing well and your fucking three's don't drop, huh?

how does dooling keep getting away with an extra shot after the foul has already been called?

OK, they t'd him up. finally!
yea, dooling is a fag, and it came back to haunt him.

the damn refs better swallow their whistles on this last posession. i'll go crazy if they put orlando at the line to win it on a BS call.

man i hope they turn it over or something. come on D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they did, even thought it was a charge on Turk

Dooling always has the gayest look on his face, like he's pissed off all the time. I hated him when he was on Miami.

now the question is, do we play billups on tuesday?

i'm tempted to say we sit him for that game too. then if we take care of business at home, he will have had at least a week's rest. putting him out there on tuesday could set him back a bit and mean he might not get to 100% for the next round.

but we had better damn well win game 5 one way or the other. i don't want to go back to orlando and we can't extend this series anymore.

he didn't have a ton of points, but this is the best game i've seen dice play in ages.

I think this gives us more of a reason to sit Billups and let him rest. we can win this series w/o him but no way are we winning the following series w/o him. Let Arnie work his magic. Stuckey played ok today, but the refs really weren't giving him any leeway whatsoever. He'll play better and he always does at home so let chauncey rest.

now the question is, do we play billups on tuesday?


Yes, closeout game, 2 more days of rest , playing at home. He should at least come off the bench, he'll be even more rested if Detroit wraps this series up.

tayshaun prince is becoming a legit star- and not just a complimentary player anymore- right before our very eyes!

i love it when he's aggressive offensively. i wish he would do it more often.

i say rest billups. it is a closeout game but we've shown we can win without him. and as was mentioned, stuckey will be better at home when the refs actually let him play.

we can do with billups and i don't think him being at 50-75% will be much of a difference as if we play without him.

we have enough vets who can execute and cover for his absence for one more game.

I give the game ball to Rip on this one. I was working but the game was on. Everyone knew that the Pistons were trying to get him off, but they couldn't stop him.

dice got some critical offensive boards too. including the one which gave us the 2nd shot which prince hit to give us the lead and win the game.

without that play by both those 2, we're probably looking at a 2-2 series.

but yeah a bunch of guys were huge in this game. rip definitely right up there with anyone. very efficient and some really tough, clutch shots down the stretch.

And seriously, who gives a fuck who gets the game ball. 3-1 instead of 2-2 is so fucking huge.

Rest CBill

I say if Billups feels he can go they dress him but don't decide wether or not he plays until the 4th.

Tay is a pimp.

Great second half.

Rip was unstoppable in the final couple minutes even when they ran the same play 3 times in a row and Orlando knew it was coming.

Stuckey generally had a good game and was BS'd by the refs.

We filled in great with CBill out. We had 10 fouls to give with Stuck and LH. Great job.

I can hear Flip telling Stuck...'We're not aksing you to win it for us, we're aksing you to not fuck up our chances of winning it" Rely on Rip, we did, we won.

Or Flip to Stuck..."Don't be a hero"

Great game. Great win. Screw Orlando...

At least Boston doesn't shoot so many damn 3's...

tayshaun prince is becoming a legit star- and not just a complimentary player anymore- right before our very eyes!

i love it when he's aggressive offensively. i wish he would do it more often.

Prince is a playoff player, and he always steps up we need him to (normally is the guy we go to when someone is injured)
I love when a series gets Tayshauned! The Magic might as well not show up for game 5, Prince put his seal on this series. Hell, Finals, winner.

I'm calling my shot right now.

We filled in great with CBill out. We had 10 fouls to give with Stuck and LH. Great job.

I can hear Flip telling Stuck...'We're not aksing you to win it for us, we're aksing you to not fuck up our chances of winning it" Rely on Rip and Tay, we did, we won.

fiqused

that was nice. i loved the gritty win.

Beating them on their homecourt with our best player and biggest mismatch on the bench? That didn't suck! Heh heh heh...

Or Flip to Stuck..."Don't try and be a hero"
Fixed?

Fixed?

don't try to be a hero?

I don't know English is my second language.

tayshaun prince is becoming a legit star- and not just a complimentary player anymore- right before our very eyes!

i love it when he's aggressive offensively. i wish he would do it more often.
I agree. I think he's been somewhat reserved because of the other big shooters on this team, but I think when he gets a point-forward kind of position, he tears it up pretty consistently. I'd be interested to know his personal stats when Billups isn't on the court.

Flip pretty much told Tayshaun that when this set of vets is gone, the Pistons will probably be his team to run, if he's ready for it. I think he's ready.

Hey, just in case anyone needs a reminder of why ESPN.com is such a gigantic pile of worthless crap:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x147/dspiewak/predictions.jpg

ESPN just said about that last play..."Plenty of contact but no call" Are you kidding me? It was an offensive foul if anything.

fuck a espn

i say we grab some of that WD-40 for hunter to use on his joints today, so he can fill in a bit on tuesday while billups rests again.

i say play billups if he's ready, if he's not we have no choice, but i want out of this series asap.

i say play billups if he's ready, if he's not we have no choice, but i want out of this series asap.

I completely agree. I don't think the results of Game 4 should have any impact on whether Billups plays or not. If he's ready, play him. If the Pistons win, Game 1 won't be until Sunday at the earliest.

We can't just assume we'll win at home. That's an especially dangerous assumption with this group. Look at Game 5 last year against the Bulls.

Believe it or not, Hollinger wrote a couple solid pieces on yesterdays game...

one on the game itself (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=pistonsmagic_080510), and the other on Lindsey Hunter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=hunterside_080510)

I completely agree. I don't think the results of Game 4 should have any impact on whether Billups plays or not. If he's ready, play him. If the Pistons win, Game 1 won't be until Sunday at the earliest.

We can't just assume we'll win at home. That's an especially dangerous assumption with this group. Look at Game 5 last year against the Bulls.


Yeah I agree too. The sooner we end this series, the more time Chauncey can have to actually rest his bum hammy...

If he's good enough to go, play and end this thing on Tuesday.

Also, I think it's safe to say Lindsey will be the #2 PG on this team come ECF. Perhaps Stuck can backup Hamilton, thus we can be done with Jarvis.

Nope, stuckey may have his issues, but especially at home i think he's the better option. Hunter should probably get more touches on the road though. honestly besides the lac of calls in his favor, my only issue with stuck is his lack of shooting. they are giving him the jumper, shoot it and stop them from cheating off of you.

id rather have stuckey driving though, although he did improve his jumpshot.

yea if this game goes to 6 or 7...whats the point of having the celtics series going to 7, we're going to need this advantage, for the team and for billups.

Also, I think it's safe to say Lindsey will be the #2 PG on this team come ECF. Perhaps Stuck can backup Hamilton, thus we can be done with Jarvis.
Let's not get too carried away. Lindsey needs to file his successful fast break in the Journal Of Reproducible Results before I'd go quite that far. He had a great game, and I'm happy he does that occasionally. :)

It appeared Prince may have hit Howard on the play, but with the way the game was being called, it might not have drawn a whistle even in the first quarter. In fact, had it been called more tightly, the zebras probably would have nailed Turkoglu for a charge on the initial shot -- he ran over Jason Maxiell on his way to the rim.
Wow, wasn't expecting him to admit that.

Lindsey needs to play over Stuckey, as much as it hurts to admit it.

If you listened to Tay's postgame presser and if you care about what the players think about these two, most likely, you'll agree.

Give Stuckey the chance, but he's just going to get into foul trouble, especially against a team like Boston when he'll have to deal with that mutant Cassell (even though Sam-I-Am is a brutal defender)

rip must really be close to the alltime pistons playoff scoring title by now....


He's 10 away.

House-hunting in Dover, Delaware right now, so I havent had time to update (or watch game 4 for that matter).

Good to see we won, though. Game 5 should be Rip's big night to pass up Zeke (in 2 fewer games)

He's 10 away.

House-hunting in Dover, Delaware right now, so I havent had time to update (or watch game 4 for that matter).

Good to see we won, though. Game 5 should be Rip's big night to pass up Zeke (in 2 fewer games)

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm disapointed in you K.

Give Stuckey the chance, but he's just going to get into foul trouble, especially against a team like Boston when he'll have to deal with that mutant Cassell (even though Sam-I-Am is a brutal defender)

Stuckey will murder Sam. Stuckey is pretty good defending off the 3 line, just not so good up top. And I rather Cassell bomb 3's than shoot from the circle.
I really like that matchup. Lindsey is more effective against a guy like Nelson who has good range and can exploit it with drives. Against Sam he would be wasted.

so you put housing your family ahead of supporting rip in his quest to become the pistons alltime playoff scoring leader? i know it's not my place to say this but damn it i can't hold my tongue anymore: you REALLY need to get your priorities straight man! you disgust me.

[QUOTE=Kstat]He's 10 away.

House-hunting in Dover, Delaware right now, so I havent had time to update (or watch game 4 for that matter).

QUOTE]

on the road maybe hunter can play a bit more. prince was referring to the noise in late game situations on the road. stuckey is more than capable of doing the job in any case. and it's obvious stuckey is the better overall option. he can be just as menacing defensively and he's very good at taking his man off the dribble and creating or getting to the line.

i agree 100% that we need a role for hunter. but to cut stuckey's minutes at all would be stupid IMO. his midrange J is becoming really good and he's very good at drawing contact and great at the line. so why would we even think of cutting his minutes? he gives us something nobody else does and something that has been sorely missing the last couple of years.

this is exactly what we needed:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3390878


i'm hoping our guys are extra focused and motivated to close the series out in game 5 now. i'm terrified about a letdown since the magic have nothing to lose and everything to gain. i HATE that we never know which piston team will show up. hopefully now it will be the supremely determined one and we close the series out.

but i hate to think if they keep feeding it to howard, he'll get our bigs in foul trouble again while racking up the points, and they'll have another 3 point shooting exhibition after he kicks it out to them. we had better damn well be prepared because this team is really dangerous with their shooters.

hopefully we shut nelson's punk ass up. who is he to be making guarantees? we need to man up and make him eat his words.

Stuckey will murder Sam. Stuckey is pretty good defending off the 3 line, just not so good up top. And I rather Cassell bomb 3's than shoot from the circle.
I really like that matchup. Lindsey is more effective against a guy like Nelson who has good range and can exploit it with drives. Against Sam he would be wasted.


Think so? I guess your right, Sam isn't as quick as Nelson appears to be at times, and he's not going to attack the basket like Nelson either.

Maybe. But Sam does have the experience and savvy on a young pup like Stuck...

That's one matchup I'm intrigued to see, because I already know that Chauncey is Rajon Rondo's abusive father.

on the road maybe hunter can play a bit more. prince was referring to the noise in late game situations on the road.

It's been over 24 hours since I heard Prince's comments, but what I recall hearing was him saying that they were a lot more comfortable with Lindsey on the floor because he didn't have to keep looking over at Flip to see what to do, like Stuckey did.

It didn't come across as a slam on Stuckey, more like a "he's not ready to be in that situation" (meaning a crucial playoff setting). The impression that I got was that Stuckey was being too tentative because he was waiting for Flip's instructions each possession, whereas Lindsey just knows what to do and when to do it.

I'll try to track down Tay's comments tomorrow and give them another listen.

Stuckey has nartural basketball instincts.

Stuck is doing the right thing looking over to the bench, cuz he doesn't have the freedom that CBill has...and rightfully so.

Take the handcuffs off Stuckey next year. The playoffs aren't the time to for him do his thing. He's letting Flip call the shots. Good job by Stuck.

nothing personal but i don't recall tay saying that at all glenn. i guess we interpreted it differently. i saw the press conference and what i heard tay say was that on the road, with all the crowd noise it is a bit harder for them to get some info in to stuck. whereas with hunter the noise isn't really a factor because he's so experienced he already knows what they're going to say.

i don't think he ever said they were more comfortable with hunter in there, just that it was easier communicating some things to hunter because he already knew it, therefore very little had to be communicated. it's a familiarity thing.

whereas with stuck, they do have to verbally communicate some things to him, so the crowd noise becomes a factor. the noise might be a challenge but i don't think it's anything that we can't overcome and anything that should dissuade us from playing the kid. he can't become familiar with these things like hunter overnight but he shouldn't be punished for it. we just work through it and communicate better.

i don't see any problem with the fact that stuckey needs more 'coaching' in game situations than hunter. and that's all prince was saying. he never said he preferred hunter in there in those situations or that he was better. he was just saying that the noise is more of a factor in giving instructions to stuckey than with hunter.

rodney should not be removed from those game situations in favor of hunter IMO- the rook has very high basketball IQ and KNOWS most of what they're telling him already but a lot of it is just 'talking him through it' as it is always helpful to have someone doing that when you're going through something for the first time. much of what they're doing is making sure he's fully aware of everything and settling him down a bit.

i have full confidence in the kid and think it would be extremely unwise if we cut ANY of his minutes in favor of hunter. give hunter his minutes, sure. but not at stuckey's expense. he's too talented and capable to shaft him like that.

id rather have stuckey driving though, although he did improve his jumpshot.
No you arent getting what I'm saying. They are playing him for that, thus giving him a ton of space to shoot it. Like Phoenix did earlier this season in that overtime game. He has to shoot it in that situation. He'll make it more often if he gives less of a uck about missing it. What i mean by that is that there's nothing aggressive about not shooting open 18-20 foot jumpers all game.

It's been over 24 hours since I heard Prince's comments, but what I recall hearing was him saying that they were a lot more comfortable with Lindsey on the floor because he didn't have to keep looking over at Flip to see what to do, like Stuckey did.

It didn't come across as a slam on Stuckey, more like a "he's not ready to be in that situation" (meaning a crucial playoff setting). The impression that I got was that Stuckey was being too tentative because he was waiting for Flip's instructions each possession, whereas Lindsey just knows what to do and when to do it.

I'll try to track down Tay's comments tomorrow and give them another listen.
Sounds honest enough. May be some truth to it. But at the same time I dont mind it happening. I do think Stuckey seems to be more comfortable at home in the playoffs so far. I also think he's going to keep getting hosed on calls. I'm not against hunter getting more time, i'm not against stuck getting more time. In a perfect world Stuck would be the complete answer, but that's not gonna be the case this year. While he's a better passer, faster on offense, better at pentration, and pure scorer than hunter. Hunter has better defense, more poise, playoff experience and the respect of the refs.

Adjust to every series. I like that Flip has done that. Thats the luxury we have this year. If the situation calls for more hunter, then do it.

hopefully we shut nelson's punk ass up. who is he to be making guarantees? we need to man up and make him eat his words.
Let's not bash Jameer too badly. After all, he's our best friend on that team (along with Rashard's $118 million boat anchor of a contract).

Is it just me or does anybody else think of Jameer Nelson as a leprechaun?


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2007-10/33493601.jpg

http://www.empirezwinger.com/images/Leprechaun.jpg

From John Hollinger's column...


Quick, name one other team that can come back from 15 down in the second half in a road playoff game without its best player.


You can't.



Tell me thats not so damn true.

nothing personal but i don't recall tay saying that at all glenn.

Maybe he didn't say that directly (that they are more comfortable with Lindsey down the stretch). I must have used the WTF Translator to draw that conclusion.

I don't know how you could not draw that conclusion if Tay points out that one player needs to rely on the coach for direction and one doesn't. How could they not be more comfortable with the guy that runs the team without assistance?

EDIT: I've tried to watch Tay's presser again on NBA.com, but it just keeps crashing my browser.

Tayshaun presser:
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/press_conf/pc08_prince_p214_detorl_080510.asx

Yes, he mentions the "loud atmosphere" briefly, but to me the central point is that Lindsey's experience is what makes him the better option.

Can't believe I just typed that.

So I don't think it's just a home/road factor when it comes to Hunter over Stuckey.

On Turkaglu: "He likes to go both ways."

I'm not surprised.

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm disapointed in you K.


You try driving from 2am to 130pm on a saturday and you tell me if you can stay awake after you're done...

^^Yea... driving long trips sucks.

:mccosky:


More Van Gundy whine, and other stuff

Man, somebody get Stan Van Gundy a crying towel. If he's not doing his passive-aggressive bit about how unbelievably physical the Pistons are (which is code for trying to get the refs to call the games tighter), he's straight-out blaming a loss on a call. Listen to what he told reporters in Orlando today about the no-call on Hedo Turkoglu's last shot in Game 4:

"Let's just say this -- (Jason Maxiell) is in the restricted area, it's a block at any other time of the season. Mike Callahan raises his hand and you can see it on the tape -- his hand's up and his hand's down and I can't explain that."

First of all, I saw a bunch of replays and in no way is it clear Maxiell was in the restricted area. Two, Callahan did raise, then lower his hand. Why? Probably because he decided, wisely, that no way should a game like that be decided on a block-charge call in the final possession. You want to win the game, make the shot, or make the tip-in. The Magic did neither.

Said Van Gundy: "I have (asked the league for an explanation) and I haven't spoken to them at this point. It doesn't matter. In their normal sense, they'll call back and justify it somehow."

Later in the same presser, Van Gundy went back to his gripe. He was talking about his team's resolve for Game 5: "Our guys showed the same resolve that (Detroit) did. (The media) will always write the result. The Pistons become this team that knows how to win. I guess they knew Mike Callahan would drop his hand down."

Van Gundy got us again. We should have written about how Orlando ALMOST won, not that the Pistons did win. Our bad. What does that even mean, "I guess they knew Mike Callahan would drop his hand down"? The Pistons weren't worried about Callahan's hand, they were too busy running down the rebound. Lord.

Skip the drive, watch the game. Man up K, Mo did!
KIDDING

I'll be at the game tomorrow.

Max wasn't in the restricted area, but it is possible his heal was above the line (he wasn't flat footed) when he got ran over by the soft Euro.

Dear Van Gundy, Dwight Howard pushed prince in the stomach on his final shot, that should have been an AND 1 play, where is the outrage?

Or how about when Hunter got Ran Over on the soft euro 3 to take the lead? Where was that call?

Fuck 'A Pornstash.

I'll be at the game tomorrow.

What section?

there might not be a guy in the nba i want to punch more than van gundy.

I'll be at the game tomorrow.

I'll be at the game tomorrow.


What section?

Lower bowl behind the basket - not really sure what section.

My buddy bought the tickets off Stub Hub. Upper bowl, first row, somewhere alone the sideline.

God damn, Van Gundy is a total cooze.

My buddy bought the tickets off Stub Hub. Upper bowl, first row, somewhere alone the sideline.

Did he text you about it?

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3082/svgwtfdetroitcomtg7.jpg

Someone needs to blow that picture up and bring it to the game.

Kind of a random thought, but I wonder what kind of role Stuckey might have had in this series if Orlando would have kept that pick and drafted him?

Kind of a random thought, but I wonder what kind of role Stuckey might have had in this series if Orlando would have kept that pick and drafted him?

well, first you'd have to assume they would have drafted him. My money would have been on Nick Young to have more of a pure scorer to pair with Howard.

I made and spelled out that assumption in my post.

Billups participates in shootaround; Dumars thinks he'll play

ESPN.com news services
Updated: May 13, 2008, 2:12 PM ET

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Chauncey Billups seems to be closer to being available to play for the Detroit Pistons on Tuesday night than sitting out a second straight game in the Eastern Conference semifinals.

After watching Billups participate in Tuesday morning's shootaround, Pistons general manager Joe Dumars said he thought the guard, who has a strained hamstring, would play against the Orlando Magic, who trail 3-1 in the best-of-seven series.

"He was moving pretty good," Dumars told ESPN.com's Chad Ford. "I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I think he's going to try to give it a go tonight. That's what it looks like. But he looked really good today in shootaround."

Billups received treatment on the hamstring and went through a workout with strength and conditioning coach Arnie Kander before the practice.

"If you look at it from three or four days ago to today, it's night and day," Kander said. "Running good. Feeling good. He's had no setbacks and he comes in every morning feeling better."

Billups injured the hamstring on Thursday after getting tied up under the basket with an Orlando player in the opening minutes of the first quarter of Game 3. He did not play in Game 4, which the Pistons won 90-89 in Orlando to push the Magic to the brink of elimination.

"We truly err on the side of caution here," Dumars said. "We never try to push a guy out on the court and try to make him play. Chauncey's a guy who understands this. He's not the kind of guy who's going to go out there and do anything crazy and try it and hurt himself.

"If he plays, that means he really feels good enough to play. If he doesn't play, it's simply because he's saying, 'You now what, I don't want to risk anything.' "

Misuse of the good/well distinction is a pet peeve of mine. You with me, Zek?

"We truly err on the side of caution here," Dumars said. "We never try to push a guy out on the court and try to make him play."


Joe, check your PMs.

I made and spelled out that assumption in my post.

I realize that. My point was that I don't think they would have. If they did, I think he would have had a big impact because we are not good at stopping dribble penetration.