"An iPod for every kid? Are they !#$!ing idiots?"

[Uncle Mxy]

why spend 150-200 bucks on an Ipod when you can spend that money on used PC's that the kids could have encyclopedias on, search online, do their homework, etc? You can't tell me you can't find a decent used PC for 200 bucks. My brand new HP cost me 350 bucks after rebates (with printer and monitor too).

It's the management costs. You need networks and environments and administration to make this stuff useful as more than a glorified word processor. That's neither cheap nor easy.

FWIW, there never was a specific proposal for iPods A dumbass Democratic state rep, as part of discussing new technology spending, held up his iPod and mentioned that golly gee, it'd be great if every kid in Michigan had one. He was likely influenced by a recent lobbyist junket he took to Silly Valley that Apple (among others) paid for. A Freep reporter inferred that some random amount of money -would- definitely be spent on iPods, seemingly making up the specifics as he went along. The dumbass Democrats didn't know to debunk this in a hurry, and now the equally-dumbass Republican state reps and their fans feel justified.

[WTFchris]

It's the management costs. You need networks and environments and administration to make this stuff useful as more than a glorified word processor. That's neither cheap nor easy.

FWIW, there never was a specific proposal for iPods A dumbass Democratic state rep, as part of discussing new technology spending, held up his iPod and mentioned that golly gee, it'd be great if every kid in Michigan had one. He was likely influenced by a recent lobbyist junket he took to Silly Valley that Apple (among others) paid for. A Freep reporter inferred that some random amount of money -would- definitely be spent on iPods, seemingly making up the specifics as he went along. The dumbass Democrats didn't know to debunk this in a hurry, and now the equally-dumbass Republican state reps and their fans feel justified.

I didn't mean for the school. I meant a home PC for them to do their homework on. Imagine all the kids living in poor homes that don't even have a PC to do their homework on. That's what they need, not an Ipod. Heck, if they don't have a PC, what the fuck good is an Ipod anyway? You can't even put songs on it.

[Uncle Mxy]

What you said specifically was:

have encyclopedias on, search online, do their homework, etc?

Encyclopedias call for software above and beyond the $200 el cheapo PC and|or (more realistically) a network, searching online definitely calls for network accesss, and only the "do homework on it" aspect may not involve something that goes beyond the computer (but of course, you want an OS like what others are using) most likely as "a glorified word processor". Factor that in with the costs of upkeep (which tend to be higher for depreciated gear -- you have to know what you're doing more), multiply by lotsa kids, and the costs start getting fun. It's easier to put the computers in central locations like libraries and maintain them there, and reduce the cost of access problem to "how do I get to the library" (which isn't exactly easy for the ones most in need).

[WTFchris]

What you said specifically was:



Encyclopedias call for software above and beyond the $200 el cheapo PC and|or (more realistically) a network, searching online definitely calls for network accesss, and only the "do homework on it" aspect may not involve something that goes beyond the computer (but of course, you want an OS like what others are using) most likely as "a glorified word processor". Factor that in with the costs of upkeep (which tend to be higher for depreciated gear -- you have to know what you're doing more), multiply by lotsa kids, and the costs start getting fun. It's easier to put the computers in central locations like libraries and maintain them there, and reduce the cost of access problem to "how do I get to the library" (which isn't exactly easy for the ones most in need).

I never said that the school/government was installing or paying for that stuff at all. I simply said give the kids a PC so they can have that stuff on there. And Wikipedia is free online...and that's an encyclopedia. and what's this network stuff? I said FOR AT HOME, not at school. why would they need to give every kid a PC at school? that's stupid. they already have PC's at school and you don't need one for every kid. I was simply saying that for the cost of an Ipod, they could simply get a used PC that would be good enough for kids to use microsoft word, internet explorer and any encyclopedia software the MAY have on it. at least they wouldn't have to worry about finding a way to the library (which may not even be open anymore because of a lack of funding) on crime ridden streets.

I like you as a poster, but what's with the ignoring what I said? I never said anything about putting the pc's in school. I'm talking about a program similar to what northern michigan did recently (giving every student a laptop).

[Uncle Mxy]

Getting online at home isn't free, cheap, or easy. I think that's where our signals are crossed. Please forgive me if I've been coming across as an ass, as that wasn't my intent at all.

Sure, there's probably free dialup options for K-12. But, with high-speed connections being more ubiquitous, it's harder to surf the web via dialup. I have an older family member still using essentiallly the dialup (Juno) I set them up with many, many years ago. He's frustrated because he clicks something and floods their modem where he can't easy easily abort. He has to wait a while when first dialing up just for updated virus signatures. Most of what he does still is offline email. There's low-bandwidth options for some things, mostly owing to mobile wireless, but you have to know what you're doing to get at those. Dialup ties up a land line, which less young families have. The poor young mom with poor kids has a cell phone if anything at all.

So, that leads to broadband. Factor out the utilities-based Internet delivery mechanisms like phones, cable, and power, unless you expect the MPSC to develop a spine when all their relatives have jobs at AT&T and Comcast. To get to the home, you really need stuff like municipal wireless, and that's not an easy road to take. It's unclear how well stuff like Wireless Oakland and Wireless Washtenaw will cost and work out when all is said and done.

I know you didn't say stuff about putting PCs in schools, libraries, etc. All I'm saying is that's what most K12 sorts end up doing when they think in terms of giving disadvantaged youth access. It's a problem they can solve, while stuff like "how to get Internet to kids at home" is seen as a way-hard problem. If they go around grabbing pallettes of old equipment with variable OS loads and dodgy hardware and circulate to the needy, they expose themselves to legal liability and support headaches. It's easy for me, for most of us on here, to make some random piece of PC equipment into my bitch, but that's not true for most end users who didn't have computers in the first place.

I don't think you can compare K12 stuff with university programs like Northern. College students are older, pay money, and opt to be there. That's a hugely different dynamic. With K12, you either have to give it to everyone, even when they don't need it, or do some fucked up needs assessment exercise so it doesn't look like you're picking favorites. Ugh.

[WTFchris]

The wireless stuff is hapening now. I've been doing numerous data requests to the companys installing the equipment. Royal Oak and Troy should be entirely wireless pretty soon actually. The whole county I think by the end of the year. I hope Detroit follows suit but I won't hold my breath there.