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Thread: Ben and Flip

  1. #1

    Ben and Flip

    Ben Wallace flips out at Saunders

    Pistons center refuses to re-enter Friday's game against the Magic after coach benches him earlier.

    Chris McCosky / The Detroit News


    AUBURN HILLS -- Sometimes you snap. Even the great ones snap.

    An 82-game schedule is as much a mental grind as it is a physical one. Over a three-week span, you've had to knock heads and elbows and knees twice with Shaquille O'Neal. You are playing against the biggest, strongest and fastest of your profession -- Miami, Indiana, New Jersey, Dallas, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Phoenix -- one after the next.

    You get weary. Your body aches and your nerves get frayed. Things that used to roll right off you are starting to get under your skin.

    You are, after all, human. You snap.

    On Friday night, Ben Wallace snapped. With 7:57 left in the fourth quarter of a 89-87 loss in Orlando, and the Pistons trailing by eight points, coach Flip Saunders took Wallace out of the game. Wallace was clearly peeved. Never mind that he had played all 15 minutes of the second half to that point, he stormed to the end of the bench uttering a torrent of unprintables directed at Saunders.

    Saunders explained the move to Wallace, who waved him off.

    A couple of minutes later, Saunders wanted to put him back into the game. Wallace didn't move. He wouldn't even look at Saunders. With the Pistons back in contention and threatening to steal a victory, Saunders again summoned Wallace.

    Again, Wallace waved him off and stayed seated at the bench, not even getting up to join the huddle during timeouts.

    "He said he couldn't go," was all Saunders would say after the game.

    Wallace made it clear he wasn't injured and that he will be ready to play today against the Pacers.

    In the clear light of a new day, Wallace will regret what he did. To refuse to enter a game is so beyond his character, it's hard to believe it happened. He is a captain and a leader on the best team in basketball. His identity -- and thus the identity of this team -- has been forged on the principles of going to work every day, having your teammates' backs and relentlessly fighting through all the bumps and hurdles life throws at you.

    For him to have hung his teammates out to dry like that, for sure, will be tough for him to swallow today. Already, the team was without Richard Hamilton, who was in Coatesville, Pa., attending a family funeral, and Rasheed Wallace, who left in the third quarter because of back spasms.

    When Ben Wallace refused to come back, Saunders had to use rookie Jason Maxiell, who hadn't dressed in nine games and hadn't played in the previous 13, to spell Antonio McDyess for four minutes. Then, with Wallace still refusing to come in, Saunders went with Dale Davis and McDyess down the stretch.

    "Those guys on the floor really spilled their guts," Saunders said.

    They did. Maxiell had a basket and a steal. Davis had four points. McDyess chased down a missed free throw in the final seconds to give the Pistons one more shot at tying the score.

    "Those guys did a great job," Ben Wallace said. "They stayed ready and prepared and really gave us a lift."

    Ben Wallace wouldn't go into all the causes of his frustration. Neither he nor Saunders felt it was any kind of crisis. Several teammates waved it off as a temporary spat between Wallace and Saunders -- nothing horribly unusual -- and felt it would clear up by today.

    Part of Ben Wallace's frustration might stem from his problems at the free-throw line. He has made just 5 of his last 32 attempts. He missed two free throws in the fourth quarter Friday, and was still stewing over that when Saunders pulled him.

    Ben Wallace also said earlier in the week that he didn't want to have his minutes reduced. He feels like to be best prepared for the postseason, he needs to maintain his normal work load.

    One frustration Ben Wallace will voice loud and clear, though, is with the way the Pistons are playing. Though they are winning, and though they played a mostly solid game at Miami on Thursday, he is bothered by what he calls, "garbage basketball", particularly early in games.

    "We can't keep putting ourselves in a hole every game," he said. "We are just not coming together at the start of games like we should and then we have to play like super heroes just to catch up. We can't keep making these games so hard on ourselves."

    The Pistons were tired and terrible for the most part in Orlando. They produced a season-low 14 assists. They settled for quick perimeter shots. Ben Wallace had only one shot and rarely touched the ball. He has only taken nine shots the last three games combined.

    He's not asking to take a lot of shots. He just wants to be involved in the sets so that they aren't playing four on five at the offensive end.

    This is hardly a new rant from Ben Wallace. He went off on the same issue earlier in the season and it helped sparked the team's 37-5 start.

    Now, nobody is endorsing a sit-down strike as the right way to act out frustration. And it is mildly troubling that a 61-victory team would have to deal with such issues this late in the season. But, over the years, a Ben Wallace meltdown has generally wound up being a good tonic for the team.

    It usually sounds the alarm that it is time to get serious.

    The playoffs are two weeks away.

    You can reach Chris McCosky at (313) 222-1489 or chris.mccosky@detnews.com.
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...604090344/1127


    Dosnt seem like a big deal to me.
    Comments?

  2. #2
    Atticus771's Avatar
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    That's not like Ben at all. I suppose I can understand his frustration, but I'd like to know what the real problem was. He says he doesn't want reduced minutes, so he couldn't have been mad at too much time. And it's perfectly reasonable to be pulled for a breather after playing the first 15 minutes of the second half. Oh well, whatever... as long as this crap doesn't happen in the playoffs. I really don't want to have to search for a new coach AGAIN if Ben and Flip keep getting into these spats.


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  3. #3
    Flip was just trying to get Ben a little rest before the stretch run. He had played the whole 2nd half before that. Just a 2 minute breather. I don't get this at all, especially with Ben Wallace. It makes me think there is something else going on in his life off of the basketball court that is frustrating him.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SKelly
    Flip was just trying to get Ben a little rest before the stretch run. He had played the whole 2nd half before that. Just a 2 minute breather. I don't get this at all, especially with Ben Wallace.
    And it was a 2nd of a Back-to-Back after guarding Shaq for 48 minutes the previous night. I would assume he would want a couple minutes there.

    BTW, the Pistons went on a 15-2 run right when Ben came out of the game.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus771
    That's not like Ben at all. I suppose I can understand his frustration, but I'd like to know what the real problem was. He says he doesn't want reduced minutes, so he couldn't have been mad at too much time. And it's perfectly reasonable to be pulled for a breather after playing the first 15 minutes of the second half. Oh well, whatever... as long as this crap doesn't happen in the playoffs. I really don't want to have to search for a new coach AGAIN if Ben and Flip keep getting into these spats.
    I don't think he was as mad at Flip as he was at the team. Just like he said, he's tired of being one of the only guys out there trying to win a game before 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. He was probably frustrated looking at up the score and seeing the Poorlando Magic leading by double digits. It seemed to me more like a message to the team to get their shit together and play some ball, and they almost pulled it out. Of course this is all speculation, and no one knows except for Ben himself.

    It might just be time for him to bring the goggles back out.

  6. #6
    Ben is a moron for doing that IMO. I am sorry but Flip is the coach, even if people don't want to Ben needs to trust him. It wasn't Flip that had them down by 15 at the half.. If he was mad at his teammates take it up with them after the game. He wans to get paid like a superstar, so he better quit acting like a diva. I don't care if it was 1 time. Alll it took to redefine Pippen's career was one time.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JS
    Ben is a moron for doing that IMO. I am sorry but Flip is the coach, even if people don't want to Ben needs to trust him. It wasn't Flip that had them down by 15 at the half.. If he was mad at his teammates take it up with them after the game. He wans to get paid like a superstar, so he better quit acting like a diva. I don't care if it was 1 time. Alll it took to redefine Pippen's career was one time.
    Moron is a pretty strong word. Just like I said, I think this had very little to do with Flip and more with the team. Maybe he's brought it up after a game, one of the many they fool around for the first 30 or so minutes and then have to play perfect basketball to win. None of us has any idea, so let's not act like we do.

    And yeah, Ben is acting like such a diva. The man could have been making superstar money by now, but he refused to renegotiate his current contract because it's the one he signed. He fired his agent and hired a lawyer to just make sure the t's are crossed the i's are dotted. The media is trying to make a story out of nothing, and I find it hilarious that so many people are buying into it. I highly doubt Ben refusing to go back into a worthless game against a worthless team is going to 'redefine' his career.

  8. #8
    The people calling Ben a moron and a diva are fuckin morons and divas. Dude has done too much shit for this team for people to judge him based on one article. I'm sure I'd be pissed if the philosophy that won us a championship was vaporized by the new coach. Ben throws hints out in the media, while keeping it unnamed and non-specific. Flip didn't get that message apparently, so Ben said fuck it. Not the best move, but I'm not gonna label him for it either.

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  9. #9
    The Healer Black Dynamite's Avatar
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    Hmmm i dont think this is a big deal in the long run for this season. Ben and Flip obviously dont get along. Unlike LB Flip is too soft to confront ben when he's unhappy. So he does as much as the coach allows. I only remember one time Ben tried to blast on LB from a "basketball" perspective. Confronted him, showed him where HE fucked up and they never called each other out again on the basketball level.

    Comrade i partially agree that in the end it was about the team. But it would be hard for him not to see Flip as the catalyst for his fustrations with the team sometimes. Either way i blame the coach for insubordination from a player with no prior history of doing something like that. None of Ben's other coaches woulda accepted that shit Flip did. Its no coincidence that he took it that far. I dont think it'll happen again. Just some "for the record" shit between them. This group is so close and good that things like this become irrelevent. I'm glad he's hassling Flip. Somebody had to. His assistants wont, and its their job. So no big deal to me.
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  10. #10
    again shows why this is Chaunceys team

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