National debt Crisis

[Tahoe]

So ideas anyone?

[UxKa]

I think "National Debt - A Minor Annoyance" would be more fitting.

[Tahoe]

^ Wow.

[geerussell]

There are plenty of ideas out there and none of them matter. We will continue to vote ourselves christmas, arguing only over the size and content of the presents because... well, because we can.

Because of our size and unique position in the world, the normal conditions that would drive a country into default and restructuring don't apply. Even in the last crisis as there was a four-alarm economic fire in our own house, a global flight to safety sent money pouring into treasuries. Not in a vote of confidence but because everyone understands that if the US economy goes down it is taking everyone else with it.

This economic suicide pact means that we get to kick the can down the road for a long time and even though everyone understands it is unsustainable, everyone will do their part to maintain the illusion as long as possible. Some perfect storm of events could bring it down in five years or in fifty. Anyone offering a specific timeline is a fraud.

So what's a rational person to do? Put 10% of your money into guns and canned goods and bet the other 90% the party will go on because being early is the same as being wrong.

[Tahoe]

Why kick the can? A simple cut spending approach is a great way to start.

And we did not, for the first time in a long time, vote ourselves Christmas in the lame duck on the omnibus (if I understood what you meant by voting ourselves Christmas). That bill was stopped cuz of the push to stop the spending in Wash.

I think the outrage from 'clear thinking Americans'(<--joking a lil) on our National debt (which was the Tea Party's seminal moment was when Bush, Repubs and Dems passed the 200Billion Roads bill or something. Bush had to spend some but the pork was infuriating to some peeps.

The way to solve this problem is obviously entitlements, but both sides are worried about bringing the topic of first for fear of being demagogued(sp?). I'm convinced the Repubs would do it if they had the executive. So hopefully that will change in 12'.

[Tahoe]

Why kick the can? A simple cut spending approach is a great way to start.

And we did not, for the first time in a long time, vote ourselves Christmas in the lame duck on the omnibus (if I understood what you meant by voting ourselves Christmas). That bill was stopped cuz of the push to stop the spending in Wash.

I think the outrage from 'clear thinking Americans'(<--joking a lil) on our National debt (which was the Tea Party's seminal moment was when Bush, Repubs and Dems passed the 200Billion Roads bill or something. Bush had to spend some but the pork was infuriating to some peeps.

The way to solve this problem is obviously entitlements, but both sides are worried about bringing the topic UP first for fear of being demagogued(sp?). I'm convinced the Repubs would do it if they had the executive. So hopefully that will change in 12'.

[Hermy]

Tahoe, you've supported sustained govt spending for the military before. Would you be willing to enact severe, painful cuts to our men and women in uniform in exchange for deep and painful cuts for children?

[Fool]

I'm guessing the Bush tax cuts counts as at least a large part of "voting ourselves Christmas".

[geerussell]

Why kick the can?

Two reasons. First, because there's absolutely no serious political mandate to do otherwise. Once you get past the abstract level where most people agree that deficits are kinda bad and something should be done about them, you discover they are entirely full of shit when asked about specifics and only want cuts to tiny bits of spending they ideologically oppose.

Americans entirely full of shit on spending. (headline changed for accuracy)

Second, for the reasons I mentioned earlier... because we can. What about our habits in the last (pick a time period, 25, 50, 75, 100) years would lead you to believe that anything other than an immovable brick wall of reality would make us stop?

I'm guess the Bush tax cuts counts as at least a large part of "voting ourselves Christmas".

Yes, tax cuts are the conservative version of it. It's spending but it's spending they like.

[Tahoe]

Tahoe, you've supported sustained govt spending for the military before. Would you be willing to enact severe, painful cuts to our men and women in uniform in exchange for deep and painful cuts for children?

I'd be willing to cut defense spending, but not severe, painful cuts. I think we could cut a substantial amount from defense without them being severe and painful.