Illegal Immigration - Interesting angle

[WTFchris]

It's a great point, and one I can't really answer. I agree it sucks to have people trying to become citezens tied up in paperwork for years. It also sucks to have americans working hard for their dollar and paying taxes while illegals are not paying those same taxes. Just because one injustice is happening doesn't mean another should as well. I'm all for helping our our fellow humans, but you simply cannot help them all. It's impossible to let EVERY single person into our country. I don't know what the solution is. I just know that two wrongs don't make a right, and tax free illegal workers is definately a wrong as well.

[Zip Goshboots]

Well, yes. I would agree that tax free illegals would be a problem. But if they are on a payroll, then theorettically they are paying taxes. They pay Social Security (which, by the way, they'll probably never collect, being illegal), and they pay the various income taxes as well.
Also, the fact is that not ALL of them will come here. People, for the most part, don't see a way out, and for the most part, don't want to leave their home.
Again, a point I've made before: The ruling class of this country is super hyocrittical. They establish the "Demon Du Jour", and set various factions of the commoners against each other, and we buy it. In the meantime, they subvert and break and modify every rule they expect us to follow.
We are simply being directed to look at illegal immigration as the latest thing that will ruin our country. In the past, it has been "Welfare Queens", Unions, artists, teachers, liberals, the poor, drug addicts, gangs, porn, affirmative action, and on and on. And we buy it.

[Uncle Mxy]

Other things to consider:

- Like children, legal -and- illegal immigrants can't vote but sometimes pay some taxes somewhere along the line and are counted as people for purposes of representation, per the Constitution (part of when they stopped counting slaves as 3/5ths of a person). Those 10-20 million illegals account for 5% representation in government, and several extra congressional reps the Californias and Texases have that we don't.

- That lock on the door is funny. It reads:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

but doesn't let you in. We had an open border with Mexico until the 1920s. We happily deported Mexicans in the 1930s during the Depression, but we rushed to let them in during WW II in the 1940s when we needed labor. The 1950s exported illegals, but they were let in by the bushel in the 1960s.

- When your big neighborhood takes a gigantic piss in their little neighborhood and that's what's prompting them to come your way, how should you feel? Southern Mexico was shafted by NAFTA, the northern areas that benefitted from NAFTA are increasingly being phased out for China, and NAFTA hasn't done jack to increase wages or standard of living in Mexico to relieve the pressures that lead them to come over here (which was key to why some people actually bought into NAFTA in the first place).

[Zip Goshboots]

Moxie:
Let your wisdom shine on, Brother.

[bangpow]

My wife's best friend is married to an illegal immigrant. Its really a trip to see up close what they can and can't do being illegal. It's a rough life.

I'm married to a legal immigrant and let me tell you that we had to jump through some serious hoops and spend all kinds of money in order to get my wife over here legally (she's Canadian).

It's like the gov't makes it harder on those of us who do things by the book than the people who just run over the border.

[Zip Goshboots]

There's a good answer to the question: By the time alot of people get through the legal process, they'd be dead.

[Vinny]

I'm married to a legal immigrant and let me tell you that we had to jump through some serious hoops and spend all kinds of money in order to get my wife over here legally (she's Canadian).

It's like the gov't makes it harder on those of us who do things by the book than the people who just run over the border.

My sister had similair problems. She married a Canadian and eventually moved to Canada but they gave him hell when he tried to come over here all the time to stay with her at my Dad's when she just had their first kid. He went so far as trying to drive all the way to Sault St Marie and back down to try and visit with her for a week but they denied him because they hade his license plate on file from Windsor/Detroit. To do it legally and quickly, he would of had to spend thousands with lawyers which he didn't have.

[b-diddy]

this is one of those subjects i dont know enough about, and almost never trust any source to inform me on the situation, since it seems almost everyone is extremely biased on the situation.

i dont care for the original post's analogy. too sensationalist. and it over simplifies. anyone consider the absurdity of deciding all illigals most go? from a logistics standpoint, its impossible.

but i agree with chris on the 'work we dont want to do' angle. the first time i heard that, it came out of the pres's mouth, and my blood boiled. with companies parading out of michigan (sayanara comerica!) that line is bullshit to me. and it also ignores the whole basics of economics and wage deflation--funny how its always the little guy who's asked to carry the burden while the have's win yet again... i probably should stop here before i start bitching about globalization.

anyway, i agree with zip on the human rights standpoint, but im wary about how this affects me personally. and damnit, sometimes we all have to sit back, look at the situation, and determine how it affects b-diddy.

[Zip Goshboots]

b-diddy, you are damn straight it's time to consider how it affects you.
I'm headed out for beers with my buddy Paul the Plumber, and we're going to give this subject serious consideration.
If we don't reach a decision by two A.M. Detroit time, head straight to a Western Union station and await instructions.

[DennyMcLain]

We had an open border with Mexico until the 1920s. We happily deported Mexicans in the 1930s during the Depression, but we rushed to let them in during WW II in the 1940s when we needed labor. The 1950s exported illegals, but they were let in by the bushel in the 1960s.

- When your big neighborhood takes a gigantic piss in their little neighborhood and that's what's prompting them to come your way, how should you feel? Southern Mexico was shafted by NAFTA, the northern areas that benefitted from NAFTA are increasingly being phased out for China, and NAFTA hasn't done jack to increase wages or standard of living in Mexico to relieve the pressures that lead them to come over here (which was key to why some people actually bought into NAFTA in the first place).

Holy shit... am I actually AGREEING with Mxy?

Yeshsir. In the early parts of last century, California had an open border. Obviously, the 1920's are nothing closely resembling 2007, but back then workers would migrate each week up north, work the farms, get paid, then cross back into Mexico to reunite with their family. When they needed money again, back up, do the work, get paid, back down.

The much larger issue isn't illegal immigration, but WHY they illegally migrate in the first place. NAFTA (as mentioned) is one obvious reason. The other is also pretty obvious, as well -- most of Mexico is a shithole, and Mexican authorities aren't doing a a damn thing about it. Sure, some factories have surfaced along the US-Mexico border -- quite a few, actually, but it's not enough to withstand the crime and desperation plaguing much of the country.

When you live in a town where there is next to no hope of economic growth, what the Hell are you supposed to do? If you live in Michigan, you move to Wisconsin. When you live in Mexico, you move to us.

Also, it's interesting to note: At the turn of the century, how many Europeans illegally migrated to the U.S.?

From Wikipedia:

New immigration was a term from the late 1880s that came from the influx of immigrants from southern and eastern Europe (areas that previously didn't have large numbers of immigrants) into the United States. This raised the issue of whether the U.S. was still a "melting pot," or if it had just become a "dumping ground," and many Americans subsequently became unhappy with this development. Immigrants were very useful, for example they expanded the economy by opening new bakeries in the United States.


Americans’ preference of old immigration rather than new immigration reflected a sudden rise in conservatism. Immigration, although always being a part of American culture, swelled during the 19th century, coinciding with the rise of urban America. Before the “flood” which occurred in the 1870s was a period called “old” immigration. Old immigrants were mostly from Western Europe, especially Britain, Germany, Ireland and Scandinavia. Since they had Anglo-Saxon and Protestant backgrounds, they were quickly incorporated into American society, welcomed into the “asylum of liberty” . However, beginning in 1870, “new” immigration began, with large amounts of people arriving from Eastern and southern Europe as well as Asia, Russia, Italy, and Japan. Not only were these peoples’ language and culture less like that of America; They looked different. They were predominantly Jewish and Catholic, which sparked tensions. However, the epitome was the unfortunate circumstances that the new immigrants arrived in.



They came in the new urban America, with disease, overcrowding, and crime all major problems. As a result, tensions became downright hostile, with a lot of Americans becoming anti-immigrant, fearing the customs, religion, and poverty of the new immigrants, considering them less desirable than old immigrants. In reality, this perceived difference did not exist; the new immigrants although looking different brought the same sort of values as old ones did. Statistically, they did not commit any more crime or contribute to any more of the misfortunes as anyone else did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra...n_1850_to_1930

Interesting how history repeats itself....