Best season ever for Izzo?

[Baker]

The topic is getting lost in all this bullshit. Let me simplify things. This is not about recruiting, program planning, etc. etc.

Is Izzo doing a great job coaching this year and could it maybe be his best effort ever when the season ends?

YES!!!!! Do you Michigan fans disagree with the fact that this team doesn't have great individual talent? If you believe they don't have great individual talent and the TEAM is ranked, ISN'T THAT A GREAT COACHING JOB?!

Fact is this, the Michigan fans are so jealous of State having Izzo as a coach that they refuse to give him credit for anything. Jethro wouldn't even give him credit for his Final Four run year before last. A couple of weeks ago The Huge Show had a topic (i know, the show sucks, but the topic was good). He asked, "Who is the state of Michigan's biggest sports leader and icon?" The results were overwhelming in favor of Tom Izzo. Tons of Michigan fans admitted on the show that Izzo was the biggest sports figure in our state. Michigan fans hate that and stink of jealousy whenever Izzo is mentioned.

I'm still waiting for a Michigan fan to address my point. Every program in the nation outside of Duke (and that's why they are Duke) has had down years in the last decade. Why do you hold MSU to a higher standard than every single Elite program?! I guess that reveals how you all truly feel about State's program. You question their standing among the nation's best, but then hold them to higher standards than everyone else.

[Vinny]

WOW. Just WOW.

[Jethro34]

Dude, you just closed your eyes and drove right by half my post, didn't you?

I wrote how their play is probably the biggest reason you thnik what you do about this season. But I remember what you personally thought about these guys last year. I know you weren't hype by a recruiting class of two 3-star guys at the time. Obviously State fans wanted those scholarships to go to Devendorf and Dominic James. Consolation prizes probably would have been Bobby Frasor or Ryan Wright. Walton and MoJo weren't the priority recruits by any means.

Basically, we need to re-clarify the terms here. This has blended into a 2 subject thread. First subject - Izzo has gotten a lot out of his players so far this season. If he continues to, barring the dissappointment that is Marquise Gray, it will show just how good of a game coach and player developer Izzo can be. Second subject - State got caught with their pants down and had a two-year stretch in which their recruiting efforts did not reflect the arrogance of program backers.

[Jethro34]

I can't give you an answer for the last decade because I don't have the time to do the research, but ESPN goes back as far as 02-023 and there are plenty of teams besides UNC and Duke that haven't had seasons as bad as State's down years.
A partial list includes: Illinois, Arizona, Kansas, Texas, Syracuse, UConn, Florida and Kentucky. The worst season any of them have had in that time period was 20 wins and a first round loss. State's 18 win season was just really bad.
By the way, I was at your house for both the Duke game and the UNC game that season, and I watched the controversial Kentucky nailbiter (with 45 minutes of coverage of a toe) and apparently you have forgotten all the credit I gave at the time, because there was plenty. The only thing I've given you crap for wascalling it a championship on a regional technicality. That was all framed within the conversation of you not giving Michigan credit. I wouldn't consider making it to the Rose Bowl an amazing accomplishment, so I gave you crap about bragging about Final Fours. It's funny how Michigan is considerred a team that loses Rose Bowl games and that's a huge negative thing. Meanwhile, State is considered this amazing team because they REACH the Final Four. If there were any way to makes this apples and apples, those would be VERY similar accomplishments and yet one a is laughing matter and the other is the default brag for that school's fans.
But, I answered your question 8 times. You're welcome.

[Jethro34]

As far as the HUGE show goes, I personally would vote #1 - Joe Dumars, #2 - Tom Izzo. I'm not jealous at all. By the way, Izzo probably would have been 4th a year ago, with Ben and Yzerman beating him. I could have voted Leyland ahead of him now, but he's only done it one year here. Mike Hart would round out the list if he were more arrogant. It's hard to name a player since they're only around 3-5 years, so you almost have to pick a coach, GM, etc. Dombrowski would get the credit too, but it's a process.

[Baker]

There were so many things that was wrong in your posts, I don't know where to start.

1) First of all, you didn't answer my question. You side stepped it and changed it. I didn't ask if any of the Elite programs had seasons worse than State's down years. I asked if any of the Elite programs have had years of lowered expectations? Answer: YES. Every single one that you mentioned has had years of lowered expectations.

2) You are WAY wrong about my feelings about Walton and MoJo coming in. I displayed an issue of Spartan Mag for 6 months in my house with the two of them on it. Ask Moodini, he'll remember. I hyped Walton as being a stud defender.

3) I love when you make bold statements about players. "Bush is the most overrated player in college football" -wins the Heisman "OSU's offense is so overrated" -drop 40+ on Michigan in "The Game of the Century" Now, Walton was a disappointing recruit and you are referring to Quise as "The dissappointment that is Marquise Gray. How's this:

Walton- Leads all BT players in assist to turnover ratio
Quise- 3 Straight Double Doubles, Today- 15 pts, 12 boards

In all of this, we continue to get off track. Is Izzo doing an amazing job this year? Yes, Sir.

[Baker]

BTW, claiming that you gave MSU props for their FF is garbage. Were you super cool when watching with me? Yes.

But right afterwards you were on here ripping them for getting beat bad by UNC, you called them the Buffalo Bills, and downplayed the significance of a Final Four.

NO, making the Rose Bowl isn't the same damn it. I get so sick of that claim. The Rose Bowl is a BT title! You do know that right? Final Four is completely different. And winning it is completely different too because you have to win the freaking NC to win it. 2 games against the very best, not 1 against a good/possibly great team.

[Jethro34]

The Rose Bowl is not necessarily a Big Ten title. It used to be, but it isn't any more. They are not bound to invite the winner of the Big Ten and the winner of the Pac 10.
And you don't have to win a NC to make it past the Final Four. You just have to make it TO the championship game.
I didn't have the intention of ripping the team for losing to UNC that year. My intention was ripping fans who celebrated it with comments that the goal was the Final Four and we got it so there's nothing to be upset about.
This is our classic debate between you and I. I am never fully satisfied unless my team wins a NC. This year, I want Michigan to finish strong on a high note and legitimize their season, but no NC is a disappointment. State fans are perfectly content with a Final Four. And this year you're content with far less.

But, is Izzo doing a great job SO FRICKING FAR in this short stretch of the season that has been played? Yes. Possibly among his best work, but I haven't wanted to follow it closely enough to really know.

[tp]

did he mention huge in that first post? as in bill simmonson? if so ban him now.

[Hermy]

I love how Hermy claims he's a Spartan. That's the move of 12 yr olds on message boards. Sure you are Hermy! Were you drunk when you posted that too?

You got me. I'm also not a Pistons fan. I'm a Jazz fan. You know how you can tell? I haven't started a "WILL BLALOCK = JOE D'S BEST PERSONEL MOVE EVER!!!" thread. Good catch.