Police shoot & kill 93-year-old woman

[b-diddy]

yes, i'm glad she's dead and i hope she burns in hell.

[b-diddy]

also: no knock warrants are imperrative against the war on drugs. what is the reasonable amount of time you give after a knock without answer before you bust in? in a drug situation where it takes 1 second to flush the evidence, the reasonable amount of time is 0 (unless high volume).

and as far as i know, if you dream of a world of no cops, move to detroit. my sis told me it has gotten exponentially worse in the last year, and you can pretty much committ any crime you please without fear of reprisal.

[geerussell]

also: no knock warrants are imperrative against the war on drugs. what is the reasonable amount of time you give after a knock without answer before you bust in? in a drug situation where it takes 1 second to flush the evidence, the reasonable amount of time is 0 (unless high volume).

and as far as i know, if you dream of a world of no cops, move to detroit. my sis told me it has gotten exponentially worse in the last year, and you can pretty much committ any crime you please without fear of reprisal.

I don't advocate anything extreme, just moving the line back a bit. If an occasional bag of pot gets flushed down the toilet because the cops didn't blast the door down without announcing themselves, so be it.

I'm not saying get rid of cops--just that the level of force should match the situation. In a lot of cities that's not the case and no-knock and paramility tactics are used as a matter of routine which is overusing them. I'm fine with swat being called out for arricaded gunmen, hostage situations and things like that where the need for escalation is clear.

Seriously, what should the standard of "reasonable" if armed people bust through your door? Right now none of the options are too good. You can try to defend your home and pray they aren't cops because if they are you are going to prison in most jurisdictions. Or you can sit there and do nothing and hope you don't get blown away regardless of whether they're cops or crooks.

[Fool]

Sounds like a "Dubbya" answer to the social security problem to me.

[geerussell]

also: no knock warrants are imperrative against the war on drugs.

The "War on..." rhetoric has been invoked twice already in this thread as justification for a militaristic approach and that really shows the drawbacks of that kind of sloganeering. A war is something that can be won by killing people and blowing stuff up. The drug problem isn't war, it's policing, politics and social policy.

[Black Dynamite]

LOL@the war on drugs...that doesn't exist. And on top of that the fiends out here have no trouble getting their crack. what exactly is the war on? the dealers? In the whole process of drugs making it to the dealers hand is he/she at fault, and is he/she not the easiest piece to replace? Almost interchangeable from one low income/low education teen/adult to the next? If chasing them down is a war of drugs while the product getting to their hands isn't addressed, then I highly doubt there will be progress anytime soon. Atleast not on the government's end.

The Old Lady plugged some cops, so not much you can say to defend her. Unfortunately people get laid down for less(i.e. the old man with the rake who got wasted like it was an assault rifle a couple years ago), so not smart on her end. But please dont invoke the fictional war on drugs like thats even a legit thing to uphold. Its much simpler to say she shot them, and usually you get wasted when you do that.

[Uncle Mxy]

I agree that this "war on drugs" as currently constituted is a crock of shit -- that's why I keep putting it in quotes. I do think there ought to be some sort of drug law / enforcement that makes sense and actually helps people, but that's not what we have today.

But, quite aside from the "war on drugs", we have cops executing all kinds of search warrants and such, not doing the quick little bust in exchange for the potential big bust. Sometimes we pay off "the small fry" to get "the big boss", make all sorts of ugly and bad tradeoffs. By and large, this stuff doesn't see the light of day until inevitable public screwups happens. Then they spend all their time fixating on the screwups, rather than the overall policies that make such screwups possible. When I see stuff talking about "should cops knock", "videotape", "should SWAT be involved", we're already down the wrong rabbit hole and some amount of bad shit happening will be inevitable. Start at the beginning. Here's the fishy part... it appears the drugs were sold to either:

1) Undercover officers
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/11/23/atlanta.shooting/

Police spokesman Joe Cobb said the three officers on that team had made an undercover drug buy earlier in day from a man inside Johnston's home west of downtown Atlanta.

-or-
2) A police informant
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_art...?storyid=88163

Chief Pennington said the case was built on a drug buy by a confidential informant, who claimed he purchased drugs inside Johnston's home.

Already, the Atlanta police have flip-flopped on a key point. My hunch is that long before we get to the judge issuing a no-knock warrant and cops swarm in with bad consequences, there's rotten shit going on.

[UberAlles]

in a drug situation where it takes 1 second to flush the evidence, the reasonable amount of time is 0 (unless high volume).

What if they shut down the sewers first?

Or they could just erect a level 10 force field around the entire premises.

[Vinny]

Quote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
in a drug situation where it takes 1 second to flush the evidence, the reasonable amount of time is 0 (unless high volume).
What if they shut down the sewers first?

Or they could just erect a level 10 force field around the entire premises.

For them to justify a no-knock, there'd probably need to be kilos lying a round, not just a little baggie or something. This would take some effort to flush, not 1 second.

[b-diddy]

its the opposite. theres no way you can flush kilos in a few seconds, so on that amount alone, no knock is only justified by low amounts, not more (counterintuitive, but logical). then there is the other topic of officer safety. no knocks also become possible if its possible allerting the suspects would put the officers in danger.

and call it whatever you want, we are still trying to prevent the flow of illigal drugs into this country. maybe there are better ways, maybe there arent, but we are trying. and what is almost always overlooked is that more important than anything is the protection of the police officers. you may not like cops, but theyre out there trying to make your life better, and its important that we dont put an undue burden and make their jobs even more dangerous than they already are.