The Tigers Need a Closer - 7.19.06, Jethro's WTF Front Page debut

[Glenn]

Solid.

http://wtfdetroit.com/index.php?page...edCloser071906

Discuss.

[Anthony]

Good work Jeth. Cant say I agree totally though.

I'm fine with Jones. Obviously, if there is someone better we could snag, hell yeah go for it. But for the most part, a save is a save. He's only blown 3 all year, and his ERA is elevated because of a outing that he pitched more than the one inning.

Anyways, great work

[Glenn]

Nice work, Jeth.

I'll throw out a few guys that intrigue me:

Brad Lidge (HOU)
Joe Borowski (FLA)
Ryan Dempster (CHI-C)
Chad Cordero (WAS)
Mike Gonzalez (PIT)
Roberto Hernandez (PIT)

Lidge has been dealing with trade rumors ever since Pujols took him deep in the playoffs. A lot of people think a change of scenery is exactly what he needs, of course, the Astros most likely would have to fall completely out of contention to give him up.

Borowski is sort of the "flavor of the month" right now. His name is popping up in almost every rumor where a closer is needed. I never was impressed with his work as a closer when he was with the Cubs, but his numbers look pretty decent this season.

Dempster is a solid arm that the Cubs may look to move before the deadline.

Chad Cordero has had a lot of success over the past few years, he's one of those "under the radar" guys.

Mike Gonzalez has also been rumored to be on the move, and Roberto Hernandez was being pursued by the Yankees as recent as yesterday, possibly along with Jeromy Burnitz.

In short, I don't think Jones is the guy we want if we have...gulp...World Series aspirations.

[Darth Thanatos]

Except none of those pitchers you mentioned are either worse, slightly better, or on-par with Jones. Add the fact that they pitch in an inferior league and they're turn-offs. I would absolutely cringe(even more than I do with Jones) if any of those guys were my closers in the World Series.

Brad Lidge clearly isn't good anymore. Either you have it or you don't, and Lidge does not have it. We've seen what Brad Lidge can do in the World Series and it's not pretty. He gave up a homerun to Scott freaking Podsednik. I've never believe in changed of scenery. It's lost meaning due to the fact that the term is so overused.

Dempster is crap. He is not a legit closer and has more walks than saves. He's blown more saves than Jones in less situations.

Cordero is not that much better in save situations and I'm sure the ERA is close in terms of SVO.

Roberto Hernandez is 42 and is just about done. He hasn't been a closer in four seasons and has not done that great in SVO this year. He has the same amount of BS as Jones in less appearances.

Mike Gonzalez is the only respectable pitcher on that list and even he's not a legit closer.

[Darth Thanatos]

Good work Jeth. Cant say I agree totally though.

I'm fine with Jones. Obviously, if there is someone better we could snag, hell yeah go for it. But for the most part, a save is a save. He's only blown 3 all year, and his ERA is elevated because of a outing that he pitched more than the one inning.

Anyways, great work

AGREED!

Most of his bad outings are in the 2nd inning of a non-SVO(Tampa Bay, New York) game, and that's why his ERA is so inflated. I'm sure his ERA isn't that bad in save opportunities(it's probably around 3). He makes you sweat a little bit, but he gets the job done in the end.

[Glenn]

Except none of those pitchers you mentioned are either worse, slightly better, or on-par with Jones

You'll forgive me if I let the numbers speak for themselves:

Todd Jones- 5.50 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, 3.25 K/9
Joe Borowski- 3.65 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 7.78 K/9 Upgrade? Clearly
Ryan Dempster- 4.54 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 8.86 K/9 Upgrade? Clearly
Chad Cordero- 3.68 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 9.41 K/9 Upgrade? Clearly
Mike Gonzalez- 2.27 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 8.85 K/9 Upgrade? Clearly
Roberto Hernandez- 3.10 ERA, 1.65 WHIP, 6.86 K/9 Upgrade? Debatable*
Brad Lidge- 5.73 ERA, 1.45 WHIP, 12.86 K/9 Upgrade? Debatable**

*So now you are saying 42 is too old? In another thread just minutes ago you said that guys are fine playing into their 40's. He only needs to pitch another 3 months, not 3 years. Do you think the Yankees want him because he sucks?

**His numbers don't necessarily show it, but his peers call him one of the filthiest pitchers in the game. His slider is known as one of the most devastating pitches in the game, and he throws the heater at 99 MPH. It would be interesting to see how many GMs would take Todd Jones over Brad Lidge. Pitching in that band box certainly doesn't help his numbers, they certainly would look better in Comerica.

Mike Gonzalez is the only respectable pitcher on that list and even he's not a legit closer.

Why exactly is a guy that currently holds a MLB closer's job with 14 saves, a 2.27 ERA, and a mid 90's fastball "not a legit closer"?

[Glenn]

I'm looking forward to your reply Arch, but please come back with facts or strong "fact-based" opinions, not insults. It seems that whenever you and I go back and forth on an issue, you have a tendency to resort to a cheap shot when you are struggling.

[Anthony]

Dems fightin words. You gonna let him talk to you like that arch?

[Darth Thanatos]

Mike Gonzalez is not a legit closer because he has not closed long-term. Is he good? Yes, but I wouldn't label him a closer because of his few saves. His body of work in the closers role is not conclusive enough to label him a good closer.

And going by numbers, those players are minor upgrades or downgrades. K/9 goes against Jones because he's a career contact pitcher, as does WHIP. Neither are those statistics are as important as ERA.

Let's see what these pitchers have done recently:

Joe Borowski: June? 11 G/9 SV/1 R /.87 ERA. Impressive. July? ERA over 5 with a blown save. Borowski only has ONE month in which his ERA is under 4. Not MUCH better than Jones if you ask me, and he would not put us over in any way.

Ryan Dempster is NOT an upgrade. He has MORE blown saves in LESS appearances. Ryan Dempster has had three months(counting July) where his ERA is under five, Todd Jones has two(plus July). Todd Jones ERA has gone down two runs in the last month, while Ryan Dempster has yet to show ANY improvement this season. Todd Jones does a better job at *saving* games than Ryan Dempster. I think it's pretty clear.

I'll agree with you on Chad Cordero, but what makes you think a player they drafted in the 1st round three years ago is on the block?

*The Yankees want him because they are desperate. They need every pitcher they can get. But on to Hernandez, I do think he's a good pitcher, but he hasn't been that great in save situations. I also think Rodney can close games better than Hernandez.

**Brad Lidge is filthy. When he's on, he's the best reliever/closer in baseball, but he hasn't been on in nearly a year. Minute Maid Park is an EXCUSE pitchers who can't get the job done use(LIMA TIME!). Minute Maid Park has held some of the most dominant pitchers(Dotel, Lidge, Oswalt, Pettitte, Clemens) of our era. Brad Lidge has very filthy stuff, but players have had no problem hitting off of him. So is it really worth trading for a player who hasn't been good in a year and put him into a superior hitting league?

[Darth Thanatos]

I'm looking forward to your reply Arch, but please come back with facts or strong "fact-based" opinions, not insults. It seems that whenever you and I go back and forth on an issue, you have a tendency to resort to a cheap shot when you are struggling.

I haven't thrown an insult since January. Take that!

EDIT: Unless you consider calling someone a complainer an insult.

EDIT: This post also has no place in this thread and hurts my feelings.