Ford: Built Mexican Tough. USA: No Jobs Left.

[Glenn]

I don't have the facts that you are looking for, but on the surface it would appear that Honda building American-based plants and hiring American workers is just as much about marketing their products in the US as it is about logistics and quality workmanship.

If you are a foreign company, it's much easier to sell to Americans if you can throw them a little bone, i.e. "Made in the USA".

I'm willing to bet that Honda doesn't have the same kind of profit margins on autos made/sold in the US that they do with their foreign-made autos, but perhaps the difference is written off as a marketing expense.

[Uncle Mxy]

The Big Three's plummet ties to the leasing industry, the average lifespan improving, and the "shrinking" middle class.

[geerussell]

In looking around and reading more on it there were a few general things that jumped out at me.

A stated goal of the UAW is that labor can't be used for competitive advantage. They do this by effectively enforcing the exact same deal across all the companies. This seriously hamstrings US companies against competition that is free to tailor their benefits, wages and work rules to their own individual situation. One size doesn't fit all and the ones with a better fit have a competitive advantage.

The other thing is that most of the transplants are able to get best bang for the buck by focusing most of their labor expenses on the best, most productive workers. UAW shops are paying older "used up" workers with the most senority the highest wages to do the lightest work. They are paying out massive amounts in pensions to retirees that aren't an issue at new plants with young workforces. Healthcare costs for these retirees are skyrocketing. They are also paying laid off workers to do nothing for extended periods of time.

This all adds up to a boatload of cash funneled to a segment of the labor force doing the least work or no work at all while the foreign competition is paying most of their cash to the young studs and go-getters.

The last thing is the advantage of the foreign transplants in cherry-picking the nation for the best deal in the cheapest area the farthest from union strongholds where they build shiny new facilities incorporating the latest in technology and efficiency.

When you add it all up, the domestics are screwed and will become more screwed every year until something gives. I see three possible outcomes...

A)Management and unions will have an epiphany and start doing what's in both side's best interests.

B) The unions will have a red sox miracle to rally from 3-0 down a best of seven to successfully organize the transplants, thus restoring the american vs foreign worker dichotomy they leveraged successfully in the past.

C) There will be a series of strikes and bankruptcies that shake out in busted unions and/or extinct american automakers.

Color me cynical but I wouldn't bet on the first two options.

[Fool]

How have you people lived in Michigan and not learned the more basic points of the history of the auto industry?

[b-diddy]

its easy to get down on the unions, but its an obvious conflict of interest problem. they should be trying to get the best deal possible for their members, but this is hurting the longterm health of themselves.

but so are the CEO's. ceo's in the 80's made something like 15x the average employee. now the differance is in the hundreds.

the fact of the matter is that everyone is just trying to get everything the can while they can. which pretty much affirms everything that i've ever believed: the baby boom generation is a failure. it probably wouldnt be too bad of an idea to systamtically terminate them, and let fresh blood get a chance to run things. viva la resistance!

[Uncle Mxy]

How have you people lived in Michigan and not learned the more basic points of the history of the auto industry?

How many people actually -teach- the history of the auto industry?

[geerussell]

How have you people lived in Michigan and not learned the more basic points of the history of the auto industry?

How many people actually -teach- the history of the auto industry?

If you don't work in the industry and didn't grow up in a household where anyone did, you don't spend a lot of time mulling over the finer points of why the auto industry is messed up.

[Uncle Mxy]

I'm just surprised it's not the source of thing that'd be a semester course in local high schools. It took me working in the auto industry to get a feel for it.

A lot of folks here don't understand what the unions are and aren't about, how they do and don't factor into the problems the Big Three faces today.

Here's a key question to ask yourselves: Why hasn't the price of cars and transportation gone down, like the price of your computers has? Do cars do -that- much more today than they did 30 years ago?

Buying a new 4-door Gremlin in today's dollars would cost about $12-15k and get you 30-odd mpg and a reasonably safe reliable ride (if not the greatest aesthetics). It was a success for AMC. Why, with 30 years of technology improvement, is the price for an "entry level car" stayed the same, with the fundamental consumer difference being 8-track vs. a CD player and maybe power windows/locks? Most every large manufactured product available in 1970 cost more and did a LOT less than what you get now.

Think about it...

[DennyMcLain]

Some of the problems the auto manufacturers face are less external, and more of archaic ways of doing business.

The price of raw materials HAVE increased, but that runs along the line of every consumer product. Additionally, foreign automakers must also weigh the increases, as well.

What's hurt them are two things: Internal competition and 20th century thought.

What I mean by "internal competition" is "within this country". Japanese automakers may or may not like each other, but they frequently assist each other and, if the government says so, collaborate on a project. Same holds true with the German automakers. Porsche, Audi, and VW have had a partnership for some time. But here, it's cutthroat! The big three absolutely hate each other, and their lack of cooperative effort have led them astray.

In terms of 20th century thought, here's an example: The GMC Envoy is also the Chevy Trailblazer is also the Buick Rainer is also the Saab SUV used to be the Olsmobile Bravada and was sort of the Izuzu something. Back when there was less competition, you could get away with that shit. Today, consumers are as smart as ever, using the internet to gain info about autos and making intelligent decisions before they step foot into a showroom. Sure, it saves money to clad the same chassis in different skins (Epsilon and Sigma chassis for GM), but like it was mentioned in a prior post, those savings don't necessarily translate to lower prices.

Regarding GM, I'd like to see a throwback to a clear progression of their divisions. Pontiac used to be their performance division, Buick was a step below Caddy in luxury, Chevy was an everyman's car, GMC dealt with heavy duty trucks. Of course, the entire company would have to be re-organized. And, with a pig like GM, that's impossible without Chapter 9 protection.

[Glenn]

Does anybody here work for GM?

The wife and I are looking at a new van and I'm hearing rumblings that GM is about to announce a huge promotion (0% for 72 mos. on all '06 models) but it's only going to last one week.

I can't find anything on the internets about it, though.

Anybody know the dilly-o?