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Thread: The Gitmo System

  1. #1
    Syndicate Emeritus, Site Co-Founder Taymelo's Avatar
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    The Gitmo System

    Jun 11, 4:54 AM EDT

    U.S.: 3 Gitmo inmates hanged themselves

    Military officials said the suicides were coordinated acts of protests, but human rights activists and defense attorneys said the deaths signalled the desperation of many of the 460 detainees held on suspicion of links to al-Qaida and the Taliban. Only 10 have been charged with crimes and there has been growing international pressure on the U.S. to close the prison.

    "They hung themselves with fabricated nooses made out of clothes and bed sheets," Navy Rear Adm. Harry Harris told reporters in a conference call from the U.S. base in southeastern Cuba.

    "They have no regard for human life," he said. "Neither ours nor their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation but an act of asymmetric warfare against us."
    When I read a quote like that, I start to think:

    Is our military:

    (a) brainwashed;

    (b) rationalizing things in their own heads so they don't feel guilty about abusing other human beings; or

    (c) correct. They killed themselves to wage psychological warfare on the guards.

    I don't know that any of us, including me, has the answer to this one, but there's definitely a question raised by that quote (unless you watch FoxNews, at which point you'd accept c as correct no matter what, and then you'd call the person next to you a bad american).
    Quote Originally Posted by WH Press Sec. Tony Snow
    The President is opposed to (actually testing embryos before simply throwing them out), because the president is opposed to murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taymelo
    Wait. Throwing them out is not murder, but testing them before throwing them out is murder? WTF, George?

  2. #2
    NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH Uncle Mxy's Avatar
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    Don't forget the conspiracy theory option:

    (d): deceitful. They didn't actually commit suicide. Our government is simply saying this to deflect from the real reason they were killed (whatever that is). Maybe "A Few Good Men" went overboard with their waterboarding exercises and decided to impose a Code Red, and this "mass suicide" thing is a cover-up to avoid questions. "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!" It's spooky how that movie takes place at Gitmo...

    As for your other choices:

    Don't assume that (c) would necessarily target the guards. It might be targetting "us" in a general sense.

    Don't assume that the rationalizations in (b) are necessarily for -their- benefit. Perhaps the spin-doctoring is for -our- benefit.

    And as for (a), is that mutually exclusive with any other option?

  3. #3
    I dont know what it is like over there and I really cannot imagine it either.

    In warfare some shitty shit is going to happen reguardless. We cannot expect our Troops to be respectful and "good people" when they are getting shit on non stop over there.

    I cannot imagine walking around wondering if some girl was going to walk up to me with a bomb stapped under her garmet to blow me the F up. Everyone over there is past their breaking point and this is just more signs of why we need to get the fuck out of there.

  4. #4
    A person who tells lies. Tahoe's Avatar
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    e) the story is bullshit. 1 person committed suicide.

  5. #5
    "They have no regard for human life," he said. "Neither ours nor their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation but an act of asymmetric warfare against us."


    Whats wrong about that?
    People who blow them self’s up have regard for human life? Fuck outa here with that shit. These people dont care about anyone’s life. Their sick assholes. Let them kill them self’s. The faster the better. Scumbag pieces of shit. These people are trained to believe that if they give up there life in order to take out the "enemy" that they'll get into heaven automatically. Why do you find a quote like this hard to believe?

  6. #6
    Here's what going to happen.

    Human Rights Activists are going to "win" their bleeding heart campaign and have the prison closed. Then the U.S. government will "release" these poor human souls out into the world, where they'll find their way back to their terror cells.

    And destroy them from within.

    C'mon. The "brainwashing" going on over there is us to them, not the other way around. We're conditioning them to pull the pin on their own people.

    Actually, quite brilliant -- because it's the military pulling this shit sans inteference from the politicians.

    Right, Gecko?

  7. #7
    A person who tells lies. Tahoe's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm now a member on this board being in your quote at the bottom. Even if I am being told to fuck off. LOL

  8. #8
    Syndicate Emeritus, Site Co-Founder Taymelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoe
    e) the story is bullshit. 1 person committed suicide.
    Link?

    EDIT. Here's mine:

    Sunday, June 11, 2006; Posted: 11:31 p.m. EDT (03:31 GMT)
    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The suicides of three inmates at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp has spurred renewed calls for changes at the facility, with one Republican senator urging the Bush administration to try suspected terrorists held there.

    "Where we have evidence, they ought to be tried, and if convicted, they ought to be sentenced," Sen. Arlen Specter (REPUBLICAN), the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told CNN's "Late Edition."

    Authorities at the prison camp, located on a Navy base in Cuba, reported Saturday that two Saudis and one Yemeni were found dead in their cells after using clothing and bedsheets to hang themselves.

    The Pentagon identified the three prisoners late Sunday, describing one as a mid-ranking operative with close ties to a top al Qaeda figure.

    Rear Adm. Harry Harris, commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo, told reporters the men had been "determined to take their own lives." He said prisoners at the camp are "dangerous, committed to killing Americans."

    But the arrests of most of the roughly 500 prisoners held there were based on "the flimsiest sort of hearsay," Specter said.

    The Pennsylvania Republican told reporters the administration faces "a tough situation," since some of those held might return to their homelands to carry out attacks on Americans. "But too many have been detained for too long," he said.

    "There is the overtone that quite a number of them will be tried, that there is tangible evidence," he said. "As to a great many others, there is not evidence which could be brought into a court of law."

    The Bush administration has declared the prisoners to be "enemy combatants," but does not consider them prisoners of war who must be accorded the rights spelled out by the Geneva Conventions.

    But detention without charges runs counter to established human-rights law, and the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2004 that prisoners could challenge their detention in U.S. courts.

    There have been more than 40 suicide attempts at Guantanamo Bay, but the inmates found dead over the weekend were the first to succeed, the government said. (Watch commanders explain how guards discovered the men -- 5:09)

    Center for Constitutional Rights lawyers, who defend 200 of the detainees, said the suicides were acts of desperation carried out by people who had not been charged and have no hope of getting their day in court.

    The human rights group Amnesty International blamed the Bush administration's policies for the deaths.


    But Harris said the suicides were an act of "asymmetric warfare" aimed at getting the prison closed. He said a "mythical belief" had spread among inmates that the camp would be shut if three detainees were to die.

    The Defense Department said one of the three, Ali Abdullah Ahmed, was a mid- to high-level al Qaeda operative and a "close associate" of Abu Zubaydah, an al Qaeda strategist captured in 2002. Ahmed took part in a long-term hunger strike that ended in May, and has been "non-compliant and hostile" to guards, according to a Pentagon statement.

    Another of the dead prisoners, Mani Shaman Turki al-Habardi Al-Utaybi, was a member of a banned Saudi militant group that recruited for al Qaeda. He had been recommended for transfer to another country that was not specified, the Pentagon said.

    The third prisoner, Yassar Talal al-Zahrani, was described as a "front-line" Taliban fighter who helped procure weapons for the Islamic militia that once ruled most of Afghanistan.

    Al-Zahrani was captured by anti-Taliban Afghan forces and took part in the 2001 uprising at a prison in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e Sharif that left a CIA officer dead, the military said.

    The men were not identified by nationality.

    'Ticking time bomb'
    Two Democrats on the Sunday talk-show circuit called on the administration to close the prison camp. Rep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, called Guantanamo "a ticking time bomb."

    "Bottom line: We've kept people in this prison for years and years and years without a status, without any rights, and it was the wrong way to go," the California Democrat said. "We should have been organized, planned ahead."

    About 90 inmates were disciplined after a May incident in which detainees staged a suicide attempt to draw guards into a room before attacking them, prison officers reported.

    That month, dozens of prisoners also took part in a hunger strike to protest their conditions. (Watch a retired general call the suicides 'an act of defiance' -- 3:29)

    Harman said the situation at the prison camp was another reason Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld should resign. Bush has said Rumsfeld still has his confidence as head of the Pentagon.

    U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has called on the United States to close the prison camp, which Amnesty International has called "a legal black hole."

    But Sen. Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat, told CNN that "We just can't turn them loose."

    "There has to be a good procedure that balances the need to keep these people off the street with the need to find out who in fact is a terrorist," said Reed, who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

    A U.S. ally, Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, told CNN that the United States and its allies are "fighting for the rule of law" against terrorism, and Guantanamo has become "a weakness in this fight."

    "Seen from that perspective, I think it would be to the benefit of our course and our fight for freedom and against terrorism if the facilities at Guantanamo were closed down," he said.

    Swedish Foreign Minister Jan Eliasson told The Associated Press the suicides highlighted the need to shut the prison and either try the captives or free them, adding that the 25-nation European Union favors closure of the camp.

    But former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a possible Republican presidential candidate, said U.S. troops would have the same problems "wherever else you put it."

    "We maybe have people who hate us so much that we can never release them," Gingrich told reporters. "Now if you're never, ever going to release them, you're going to have psychological problems" among the prisoners.

    A British citizen released from Guantanamo in 2004 told the AP, "This was not done as an act of martyrdom, warfare or anything else."

    "If you're told day after day by the Americans that you're never going to go home or you're put into isolation, these acts are committed simply out of desperation," Shafiq Rasul, 29, told the AP.


    Rasul has previously accused the United States and Britain of humiliating and abusive treatment. (Full story)

    Among the cases to be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court before the end of its current term is a major test of presidential authority over planned military tribunals for suspected foreign terrorists.

    Fewer than a dozen of the Guantanamo prisoners would face military review of alleged war crimes.

    Those trials have yet to begin, and the high court has been asked to lay out clear procedures to ensure the defendants are treated within constitutional and international norms.

    Copyright 2006 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
    Where's your link? And out of curiousity, was it Rush, Hannity, Coulter, O'Reilly, or someone else that told you it was only 1 prisoner?
    Last edited by Taymelo; 06-12-2006 at 07:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WH Press Sec. Tony Snow
    The President is opposed to (actually testing embryos before simply throwing them out), because the president is opposed to murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taymelo
    Wait. Throwing them out is not murder, but testing them before throwing them out is murder? WTF, George?

  9. #9
    NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH Uncle Mxy's Avatar
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    Tahoe simply presented that as an option. Yeah, it almost sounds like a "Fox News" sort of option, but it's only an option nonetheless.

  10. #10
    If these guys are terrorists they are going to be treated like shit. NOBODY knows what the hell goes on but the people involved. The media and our government can spin this any which way. What are we supposed to do though? Treat these guys like they got caught robbing an airhead from Farmer Jack? You are going to get treated like shit when OUR country comes in and seperates the good from the bad. If you dont like it then A) Make sure we dont come in. B) Make sure you are not associated with anything bad. C) Dont piss us off.

    Fact of the matter and this goes back through history. The weak die. Does it suck? YES. Is it fair? NO. Is life fair? No. We are there and doing what the hell we have to do. None of us are over there...Fox News is fed BS just like us...

    I am sure some of you guys have friends/family over there and hear about the crap that is going on.

    There is all kinds of shit that goes on that gets spun differently for us THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

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