Gay marriage, should it be outlawed?

[Gecko]

The Pew researchers had continued to report that opposition to gay marriage is dwindling. Here's a report from 03/2006:

http://people-press.org/reports/disp...3?ReportID=273

Good find.

[Taymelo]

No where have I seen a poll that asks "would you like Bush and congress to spend valuable time debating the issue of a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage despite it having 0 opportunity of passing", though let me venture the majority of Americans would be opposed.

Do you have that one Geck, cause thats what Tay was talking about. You're welcome for the help with the logic.

Actually, the proper poll would ask:

If you could only choose one, woud you rather have a constitional amendment banning gay marriage, or ports that are secure from dirty bombs, and bomb-proofed luggage compartments for the airplanes we fly on with our children?

Or:

If you could only choose one, woud you rather have a constitional amendment banning gay marriage, or a national healthcare system?

Or:

If you could only choose one, would you rather have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, or a national energy policy that eliminates our reliance upon foreign oil and therefore makes us less susceptible to terrorism?

Or:

If you could only choose one, would you rather have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, or would your rather deploy our troops out of Iraq?

Or:

If you could only choose one, would you rather have the government work on tax incentives to keep jobs in the USA, or a constitutional ban on gay marriage?

Or:

If you could choose only one, would you rather have a constitutional ban on gay marriage, or far better preparedness for another 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina?

[Glenn]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060607/...o/gay_marriage

Senate rejects gay marriage ban

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
2 minutes ago

A constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was defeated as predicted in the Senate Wednesday, but supporters say new votes for the measure represent progress that gives the GOP's base reason to vote on Election Day.

And senators will have to answer for their positions, one sponsor of the amendment warned.

"People are going to be responsible for this vote," said Sen. Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record), R-Kan. "We are making progress in America on defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman."

Indeed, the amendment was expected to gain as many as seven new votes from freshman supporters who were not members of the Senate when the amendment was last voted on in 2004.

"There's many of us who have not had an opportunity to debate and discuss this," said one of them, Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla.

The 49-48 vote fell 11 short of the 60 required to send the matter for an up-or-down tally by the full Senate. The amendment's failure was no surprise.

Still, supporters are pleased.

"We're building votes," Sen. David Vitter, R-La., another new supporter, said ahead of the vote. "That's often what's required over several years to get there, particularly to a two-thirds vote."

A majority of Americans define marriage as a union of a man and a woman, as does the amendment, according to a new ABC News poll. But just as many oppose amending the Constitution, the poll found.

Forty-five of the 50 states have acted to define traditional marriage in ways that would ban same-sex marriage — 19 with their own state constitutional amendments and 26 with statutes.

"Most Americans are not yet convinced that their elected representatives or the judiciary are likely to expand decisively the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples," said Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., a possible presidential candidate in 2008. He told the Senate on Tuesday he does not support the federal amendment.

I'm waiting to hear how those damn polygamists feel about this.

[Uncle Mxy]

My bet is that, as a result of Bush making this an issue, it polarized people who didn't have strong feelings about it before, which is what makes the recent polling closer. The recent Pew study was done in March, before Bush put it on the radar, and showed decline in folks opposed to gay marriage. In doing a little digging, the same sort of thing happened before. Back in 2003, the Pew studies showed a decline in opposition to gay marriage. Then, good ol' Massachusetts decided to make gay civil unions a legal thing in 2004 and insist it be called gay marriage. Gay marriage opposers of various stripes rallied. I'm sure it benefits the Republican base more than Democrats, but lots of prominent Democrats publically oppose gay marriage.

I think marriage should be a personal matter only, and marriage as a civil and secular status needs to be phased out. Republican-led efforts to bake the idea of marriage into federal law are misguided pandering, be they this stab at a constitutional amendment, or the Defense of Marriage Act 10 years ago. To a large degree, the legal plumbing to make marriage go away as a legal status has already happened. But, because no politician wants to be portrayed as anti-marriage, everything had to happen in parallel with marriage. Now we have -- get this -- redundancy in government. We have a system for the married folks that's dysfunctional in a number of ways, and another system for unmarried folks who have kids and entanglements with each other which is even more fucked up. The society doesn't gain the economies of scale in maintaining the civil marriage infrastructure as it did before. There's too many popular exception cases -- divorce/remarriage and out-of-wedlock kids. Now that more folks don't -need- marriage as much for practical long-term survival in society, they won't go away. We should deal with it by doing something other than burying our head in the sand.

[Gecko]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060607/...o/gay_marriage

Senate rejects gay marriage ban

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
2 minutes ago

A constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was defeated as predicted in the Senate Wednesday, but supporters say new votes for the measure represent progress that gives the GOP's base reason to vote on Election Day.

And senators will have to answer for their positions, one sponsor of the amendment warned.

"People are going to be responsible for this vote," said Sen. Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record), R-Kan. "We are making progress in America on defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman."

Indeed, the amendment was expected to gain as many as seven new votes from freshman supporters who were not members of the Senate when the amendment was last voted on in 2004.

"There's many of us who have not had an opportunity to debate and discuss this," said one of them, Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla.

The 49-48 vote fell 11 short of the 60 required to send the matter for an up-or-down tally by the full Senate. The amendment's failure was no surprise.

Still, supporters are pleased.

"We're building votes," Sen. David Vitter, R-La., another new supporter, said ahead of the vote. "That's often what's required over several years to get there, particularly to a two-thirds vote."

A majority of Americans define marriage as a union of a man and a woman, as does the amendment, according to a new ABC News poll. But just as many oppose amending the Constitution, the poll found.

Forty-five of the 50 states have acted to define traditional marriage in ways that would ban same-sex marriage — 19 with their own state constitutional amendments and 26 with statutes.

"Most Americans are not yet convinced that their elected representatives or the judiciary are likely to expand decisively the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples," said Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., a possible presidential candidate in 2008. He told the Senate on Tuesday he does not support the federal amendment.

I'm waiting to hear how those damn polygamists feel about this.

Glenn, why you want to keep taking a shot at me? It's fine if you don't see any validity to that argument, it's just one small piece of the larger picture. Now it seems you are parsing that small point and making it the entire point. Not nice.

[Glenn]

Sorry, I was just playing, but I can see how that could get lost in the translation.

I was repeating it as I pictured Norm MacDonald would do on the old SNL newscasts (with Frank Stallone or David Hasselhoff, etc)

I guess I found it funny but in actuality, I'm the only one that was privy to the joke.

Please strike those comments from the record.

[Gecko]

Sorry, I was just playing, but I can see how that could get lost in the translation.

I was repeating it as I pictured Norm MacDonald would do on the old SNL newscasts (with Frank Stallone or David Hasselhoff, etc)

I guess I found it funny but in actuality, I'm the only one that was privy to the joke.

Please strike those comments from the record.

Done, but seriously here...If you want there are three articles on the debate I have read and can post them. I will say that the argument is mainly a conservative argument so it's slanted. I think on some level I am just going to fade from this conversation. I debate all the time whether I am doing the right thing stepping into the Off Topic forum.

[Taymelo]

Damn!!!

Look at Gecko getting all sensitive over nothing, almost like the stereotype of a... dare I say... homosexual... and look at Glenn caving like a bitch for no reason.

I think this thread needs some testosterone.

PS: Gecko hurts my feelings every time he asks sarcastically if Al Franken is still on the air. I'm going to cry until he apologizes to me and all the rest of the polygamists.

[Glenn]

LOL, just trying to keep it as civil as possible.

I know you like to take a flame thrower to the place every now and then, so just keep doing what you do.

[Gecko]

Damn!!!

Look at Gecko getting all sensitive over nothing, almost like the stereotype of a... dare I say... homosexual... and look at Glenn caving like a bitch for no reason.

I think this thread needs some testosterone.

PS: Gecko hurts my feelings every time he asks sarcastically if Al Franken is still on the air. I'm going to cry until he apologizes to me and all the rest of the polygamists.

Welcome back TM, it seemed like weeks since you last posted without talking about Bush. Where were we?