Ben Wallace on the All-Defensive 1st team!

[Comrade]

This was coaches, not journalists so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Also, while they may not be in the same league as Ben and Bowen(and no guard is), neither are sieves on the defensive end. I remember when Kidd held Chauncey to 9 points and Steve Nash to a goose egg. I'm not saying he was completely responsible for it, but not many other guards can say they held the best shooters in the league to 20% and 0% shooting respectively.

My problem is more with Kobe being on the list than Kidd. With Kidd I just think that's it's still part of his rep from when he was an MVP calibre player trickling down into how people think of him today. He got more all-star votes than Chauncey THIS year, when Chauncey was killing shit and Kidd was completely struggling before the all-star break. Kidd is still a very good defender, but I think it's his rep that gets him 1st team this year.

For me, Kobe is definitely up for debate. Personally, I think Billups, Quinton Ross, Wade, and even Andre Iguodala(even if he plays SF a bit more than SG) are all better defenders than him. That's just to name a few.

[Darth Thanatos]

Most of those players you mentioned have much better help defense than Kobe.

Kobe Bryant is a great defender, but he has to use so much energy on the offensive end so that team can even compete. His D isn't quite as great without Shaq(Wade's D w/Shaq is a lot worse than Kobe's w/Shaq, but still good) but he still does a pretty damn good job guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player (see: Rip, VC).

[Comrade]

Most of those players you mentioned have much better help defense than Kobe.

Kobe Bryant is a great defender, but he has to use so much energy on the offensive end so that team can even compete. His D isn't quite as great without Shaq(Wade's D w/Shaq is a lot worse than Kobe's w/Shaq, but still good) but he still does a pretty damn good job guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player (see: Rip, VC).

I'm not knocking Kobe's defense as much as I'm saying there are guys who don't get recognized. He's definitely more of an offense-oriented player(he has to be), I'd just rather have a few of those other guys on the defensive side of the court. But everybody I named outside of Iguodala certainly has better help D, and that does make them look a lot better.

[Matt]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...605130318/1127

Chauncey Billups , who was named to the NBA's All-Defensive second team, took some good-natured ribbing from his teammates Friday about the honor.

Rasheed Wallace joked that if the statue for defensive player of the year was a man in the defensive stance, Billups' trophy would have a guy reaching around a ball handler who dribbled past him.

"That's all right," Billups said. "It can't be no mistake if they vote you on two years in a row."

Billups and Tayshaun Prince made second team, while Ben Wallace was on the first team.

[Kstat]

Sheed must be getting annoyed watching all his teamates walk away with awards without him...

Mark Boyle (voice of the Pacers) told me he had Sheed 3rd on his DPOY ballot, behind Ben and Bowen.

[Varsity]

The fact that Kidd and Kobe are on there makes this entire list a joke.

This was coaches, not journalists so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Also, while they may not be in the same league as Ben and Bowen(and no guard is), neither are sieves on the defensive end. I remember when Kidd held Chauncey to 9 points and Steve Nash to a goose egg. I'm not saying he was completely responsible for it, but not many other guards can say they held the best shooters in the league to 20% and 0% shooting respectively.

While doing that, Kidd also gave up 40 to A. Johnson a week or so ago..hmmm..

[Comrade]

The fact that Kidd and Kobe are on there makes this entire list a joke.

This was coaches, not journalists so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Also, while they may not be in the same league as Ben and Bowen(and no guard is), neither are sieves on the defensive end. I remember when Kidd held Chauncey to 9 points and Steve Nash to a goose egg. I'm not saying he was completely responsible for it, but not many other guards can say they held the best shooters in the league to 20% and 0% shooting respectively.

While doing that, Kidd also gave up 40 to A. Johnson a week or so ago..hmmm..

He had a hot shooting night against his former team, nothing you can do about that. Kidd also lead the game in rebounds, and almost had as many assists by himself as the whole Indiana Pacers team. Oh, and the Pacers lost.
You can name any player in this league, and I can find a game or six where they got scorched - especially on the perimeter. Putting a hand up can only do so much against a hot shooter.

Anderson Varejao has a true shooting percentage of 75 against us, and is averaging 13 points per game in just 21 minutes. Should they rethink Ben and Rasheed getting votes too?

[Comrade]

I'd just like to point out before somebody attacks me for the Ben Wallace comment that my point is that everybody has an off game and everybody has bad matchups.