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Thread: 9/11 Loose Change

  1. #21
    This is nothing I haven't seen before.

    LMAO at anyone gullible enough to of believed this shit. Next time don't be so gullible. This is why the media controls most peoples thoughts on issues.
    This is cute. Isn't Popular Mechanics a part of the "media"? Nice google search, sparky. Now go ahead and do a search for the scads of articles/posts/writings which dispute that article.

  2. #22
    THE PENTAGON
    At 9:37 am on 9/11, 51 minutes after the first plane hit the World Trade Center, the Pentagon was similarly attacked. Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.





    HQ ATTACK: Taken three days after 9/11, this photo shows the extent of the damage to the Pentagon, consistent with a fiery plane crash. PHOTOGRAPH BY DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
    Big Plane, Small Holes
    CLAIM:
    Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."
    The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media. In his book
    The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile--part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."
    FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.
    Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."
    The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.





    HOLE TRUTH: Flight 77’s landing gear punched a 12-ft. hole into the Pentagon’s Ring C. PHOTOGRAPH BY DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
    Intact Windows
    CLAIM:
    Many Pentagon windows remained in one piece--even those just above the point of impact from the Boeing 757 passenger plane. Pentagonstrike.co.uk, an online animation widely circulated in the United States and Europe, claims that photographs showing "intact windows" directly above the crash site prove "a missile" or "a craft much smaller than a 757" struck the Pentagon.
    FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do--they're blast-resistant.
    "A blast-resistant window must be designed to resist a force significantly higher than a hurricane that's hitting instantaneously," says Ken Hays, executive vice president of Masonry Arts, the Bessemer, Ala., company that designed, manufactured and installed the Pentagon windows. Some were knocked out of the walls by the crash and the outer ring's later collapse. "They were not designed to receive wracking seismic force," Hays notes. "They were designed to take in inward pressure from a blast event, which apparently they did: [Before the collapse] the blinds were still stacked neatly behind the window glass."

    Flight 77 Debris
    CLAIM:
    Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"
    FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"





    AFTERMATH: Wreckage from Flight 77 on the Pentagon’s lawn--proof that a passenger plane, not a missile, hit the building. PHOTOGRAPH BY AP/WIDE WORLD PHOTOS

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TK
    This is nothing I haven't seen before.

    LMAO at anyone gullible enough to of believed this shit. Next time don't be so gullible. This is why the media controls most peoples thoughts on issues.
    This is cute. Isn't Popular Mechanics a part of the "media"? Nice google search, sparky. Now go ahead and do a search for the scads of articles/posts/writings which dispute that article.
    You're bordering on lunacy. Read the article. The proved without a doubt you UFO believers are full of shit. I am now convinced you are too young to know any different and this is where I am not going to argue with children.
    Last edited by Gecko; 04-28-2006 at 03:04 PM.

  4. #24
    Here is a list of experts that contributed to the article.

    Air Crash Analysis
    Cleveland Center regional air traffic control
    Bill Crowley special agent, FBI
    Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants
    Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
    Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.
    Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
    ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes
    Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
    New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)
    Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority
    Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)
    Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA
    Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center
    Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.
    James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office
    Jeff Pillets senior writer,
    The Record, Hackensack, NJ
    Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service
    Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
    119th Wing, North Dakota
    Air National Guard
    Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene
    Air Defense
    Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
    U.S. Air Force
    Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
    Tyndall Air Force Base
    Boston Center regional air traffic control
    Laura Brown spokeswoman,
    Federal Aviation Administration
    Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation
    Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board
    Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board
    Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
    North American Aerospace Defense Command
    Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
    Andrews AFB
    Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command
    John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org
    Hank Price spokesman, Federal
    Aviation Administration
    Warren Robak RAND Corp.
    Bill Shumann spokesman,
    Federal Aviation Administration
    Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB
    Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport
    Aviation
    Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology
    Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman
    Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert
    Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
    Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center
    Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
    director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman
    Image Analysis
    William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill
    W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
    FEMA Probe Team
    Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group
    Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week
    Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.
    Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University
    Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness
    Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
    University of California, San Diego
    Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
    Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction
    David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report
    Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.
    Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee
    Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety
    John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team
    Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts
    Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
    Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
    CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response
    Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University
    William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA
    John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor
    Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
    Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University
    James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee
    Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash
    Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
    Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon
    Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
    Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
    acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology
    Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University
    Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
    San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

  5. #25
    I have to take off pretty soon for the weekend, but I'll be back Monday to explore this in further detail.

    PM attacked some of the most outlandish claims about 9/11, most of which I don't agree with (or maybe even all of which I don't agree with, I gotta go back and read it again).

    It did not address the PNAC, or the fact the government knew Atta was in the country, gathering intelligence for the attacks.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TK
    I have to take off pretty soon for the weekend, but I'll be back Monday to explore this in further detail.

    PM attacked some of the most outlandish claims about 9/11, most of which I don't agree with (or maybe even all of which I don't agree with, I gotta go back and read it again).

    It did not address the PNAC, or the fact the government knew Atta was in the country, gathering intelligence for the attacks.
    The Atta thing could of been incompetance. I never heard these conspiracy theories before so I actually was doing some research on it today and ran across the PM article. Thank goodness I did cause I was starting to wonder

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko
    You're bordering on lunacy. Read the article. The proved without a doubt you UFO believers are full of shit. I am now convinced you are too young to know any different and this is where I am not going to argue with children.
    I'm 34 years old, you condescending prick.

    Did you read the article? Or was this a fine example of blind cut and paste?

    ONCE AGAIN, it didn't prove shit. It said a missle wasn't fired from one of the 757s. Fine, I don't believe that anyway. It said that commercial planes were indeed flown into the WTC towers, and not military jets. Cool, that's what I think too.

    Tell me your thoughts on the PNAC and it's agendas. I'll await your next brilliant posting of other people's thoughts.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TK
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko
    You're bordering on lunacy. Read the article. The proved without a doubt you UFO believers are full of shit. I am now convinced you are too young to know any different and this is where I am not going to argue with children.
    I'm 34 years old, you condescending prick.

    Did you read the article? Or was this a fine example of blind cut and paste?

    ONCE AGAIN, it didn't prove shit. It said a missle wasn't fired from one of the 757s. Fine, I don't believe that anyway. It said that commercial planes were indeed flown into the WTC towers, and not military jets. Cool, that's what I think too.

    Tell me your thoughts on the PNAC and it's agendas. I'll await your next brilliant posting of other people's thoughts.
    Who cares about the PNAC. There's a current rumor about Bush and Rummy being in something called the illumaries club. Google it the conspiracy theorists say that it's a select group of people that run the whole world. It's all garbage. All of it. P.S. Sorry for calling you a child - Just an gullible adult.

    And yes the article deunked most mytghs the movies mentioned. I am not keeping score of everything you do or don't think happened.
    Last edited by Gecko; 04-28-2006 at 03:26 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko
    The Atta thing could of been incompetance.
    Sure, it could've been incompetance. Or Atta could've been allowed to operate under the government's noses. Either point has validity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko
    I never heard these conspiracy theories before
    Thanks for proving my point. You think one blind cut and paste answers it all? You honestly don't think it's been addressed anywhere else by people who still believe the government had something to do with it? Look a little deeper.

    And check out http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/ if you need evidence that people smarter than you or I actually buy into this.

    I know you'd rather dismiss this notion with a wave of your hand and lump anyone who believes this (or at least questions it) in with the same group of people who believe Elvis is still alive and that they've been abducted by aliens, but this is actually a legit issue, if you care to open your eyes and investigate it further.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko
    Who cares about the PNAC. There's a current rumor about Bush and Rummy being in something called the illumaries club. Google it the conspiracy theorists say that it's a select group of people that run the whole world. It's all garbage. All of it. P.S. Sorry for calling you a child - Just an gullible adult.

    And yes the article deunked most mytghs the movies mentioned. I am not keeping score of everything you do or don't think happened.
    I assume you are talking about the "illuminati". Such a group has been around in conspiracy theorise for decades. Just about anyone with power gets mixed in a thoery or two with them.
    STEW BEEF!

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