Ben and Flip

[Black Dynamite]

again shows why this is Chaunceys team

ok how so? Chauncy didnt get the team to play defense. Honestly I doubt there is a remedial ego level of thinking that this is any one guys team overall. on offense Billups is the floor leader. On defense Wallace is the floor leader. both just as equally important as leaders.

On top of that this wasnt even a Cbill vs Ben wallace thing. That was pretty left field there. Its more or less Flip getting what he needed. Which is someone not agreeing with him like his headless assistants do.

[SKelly]

Ben and Flip obviously dont get along.

I think they might get along fine, it just shows the lack of respect that Ben has for Flip as a coach. That's the danger of being a player's coach.

[SKelly]

One more thing to add:

Remember last year when Ben complained to the media that LB was playing them too much and guys were getting tired? Now he's complaining that he has to sit and feels he needs to play more.

[Black Dynamite]

One more thing to add:

Remember last year when Ben complained to the media that LB was playing them too much and guys were getting tired? Now he's complaining that he has to sit and feels he needs to play more.

I dont think his complaint is the issue. the issue is that the coach doesnt get much of his respect. And doesnt really command it.

But once i agree its not a big deal. I totally disagree that they are cool with each other. Ben Wallace and everyone else on this team pushes that shit to the side in order to get ready for the playoffs. We dropped our last whiner(bye bye darko). i still say the LB thing wasnt a distraction. And neither is Flip and Ben.

[b-diddy]

comrade nailed it (according to rob parker). his moles claim ben was pissed at his teammates for not including him in the offense, or just plain frustrated with them.

people getting pissed at ben are wrong, and seem to be blowing this way out of proportion.

lets get some things streight here.

1) this is ben's team. he's the only guy thats been here since the beggining (before 50 wins). if some throw in in the grant hill debacle doesnt turn into 3 time dpoy and the premier defensive big man in the league, pistons are the boston celitcs of the league.

2) ben didnt disrespect flip, and even if he did, who the hell cares? ben trumps flip, 100 out of 100 times. we can win without flip, not without ben.

3) some of you dont seem to understand how this team works. the players police themselves, flip just steers the ship. rasheed getting t's left and right? thats fine. sheed showing up 15 min before tipoff? hes still starting. ben refusing to go in? hes the boss. flip didnt come here to boss these guys around or discipline that. pistons are vets and in control of themselves. flip is still the coach, but hes not going to go asserting his authority on this team just to let everyone know. i find it humurous sometimes when i see people saying flip should treat the pistons like tom izzo treats a freshmen. apples and cumquats.

[JS]

The people calling Ben a moron and a diva are fuckin morons and divas. Dude has done too much shit for this team for people to judge him based on one article. I'm sure I'd be pissed if the philosophy that won us a championship was vaporized by the new coach. Ben throws hints out in the media, while keeping it unnamed and non-specific. Flip didn't get that message apparently, so Ben said fuck it. Not the best move, but I'm not gonna label him for it either.

Quote me Fekz, don't don't throw it out there like anybody but me said it, If you have a problem with me say don't pussyfoot around it. My point was simple, there is a right time and place to show your anger. I know the game is meaningless in the grand scheme,and he may have been mad at his teammates but you don't do that.

If he is the leader and not Chauncey what message does that send? If you get pist enough you can quit on the team to make them play nice. You would have never seen MJ, Wilt, Bird, Russell or any superstar refuse to comeback in. As I said in my first post, one moment re-defined Scottie Pippen, after he refused to go back in the refusal and Pippen were forever linked. I know that was playoff game, but if we got ths win on Friday we would have clinched HC Wed. Maybe me my word choice was hard, but I am not a fair weather fan. My background in real life just has taught me regardless of adversity you don't quit on your team for a minute, qtr, game or whatever, In the past Ben has called out his teammates in public and that worked why stoop to this level. Sure guys responded but I just he could have done real harm to the way he is precieved.

[Taymelo]

Odd explosion for Pistons captain Ben Wallace, who declined coach Flip Saunders' attempts to put him back in the Friday loss at Orlando. No, apparently he wasn't intimidated by Darko Milicic. Wallace has those fits of pique occasionally, and Detroit media reports said he was cursing Saunders. A free agent, perhaps Wallace has had enough in Detroit and will want to move on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[Black Dynamite]

comrade nailed it (according to rob parker). his moles claim ben was pissed at his teammates for not including him in the offense, or just plain frustrated with them.

people getting pissed at ben are wrong, and seem to be blowing this way out of proportion.

lets get some things streight here.

1) this is ben's team. he's the only guy thats been here since the beggining (before 50 wins). if some throw in in the grant hill debacle doesnt turn into 3 time dpoy and the premier defensive big man in the league, pistons are the boston celitcs of the league.

2) ben didnt disrespect flip, and even if he did, who the hell cares? ben trumps flip, 100 out of 100 times. we can win without flip, not without ben.

3) some of you dont seem to understand how this team works. the players police themselves, flip just steers the ship. rasheed getting t's left and right? thats fine. sheed showing up 15 min before tipoff? hes still starting. ben refusing to go in? hes the boss. flip didnt come here to boss these guys around or discipline that. pistons are vets and in control of themselves. flip is still the coach, but hes not going to go asserting his authority on this team just to let everyone know. i find it humurous sometimes when i see people saying flip should treat the pistons like tom izzo treats a freshmen. apples and cumquats.

i agree with your first point. half of your second. And a lil bit of your 3rd. yea the players are policing themselves these days and are capable. But theres nothing wrong with wanting to see them in an environment that pushes them further than they push themselves. not really the environment we have now. But its no big deal. the players can handle themselves. and comparing it to treating them like freshman is ridiculously extreme.

My one complaint and the only issue that bothers me. Is back to an earlier point that Flip surrounding himself with asskissing coaching staff of the year. unlike with the last two coaches. the assistants have no separate set of nuts to suggest things and remind Flip about the defense. I think Ben had to do their job for them. Which is a lil' unfair to him. Otherwise Ben and Flip wont be golfing together. thats as bout as bad as its gonna get.

[MOLA1]

He’s a tough, no nonsense dude. Earlier in the season, he talked about how he didn’t know what his role was with the team. After dominating the league defensively for the last 4 or 5 years, Ben Wallace went from William Wallace with the Scots and Irish behind him, to simply William Wallace, soldier. Our team’s identity changed drastically from what it has been in the past. Ben is the anchor, we all know that, but lately, he’s been a one man show on the defensive side.

Whenever he seems to get pissed, call the team out or do something like refuse to re-enter the game, it’s for a reason. Ben’s a man that has seen his army go from being a wall, to being a brigade that charges. We’ve gone from sword fighting in the trenches to slinging arrows from bows over 50 feet away. Our team has changed as far as tactics, but we still have the same heart. Ben is dissatisfied when 100% effort isn’t being shown throughout the game and he got sick of it.

Was he wrong to do it the way he did it? Of course! A lot of people have said, he should have at least apologized. He said he’d do it on the court because that’s what he’s about and in my opinion, he did. Ben went out there and handled his business. After the game, he said “I’ve learned from my mistakes and we’ll move on.” I totally agree. I think that his play and that acknowledgement of the fact that he fucked up by doing it the way he did it was good enough.

Well, where to go from here? I think we’ll be tougher and play harder defense, as exhibited against an Indiana team that plays tough and really “goes at us.” I think that when it’s all said and done, these Pistons will not only win it all, but it will be special. It will be dominant and we will collectively scream “DEEEETROIT BASKETBAAAALLL!” at the end of the day.

[Matt]

it was intereting to see Ben get so many touches the following game vs. Indy. for many points, the offense nearly ran through him, rather than Sheed.

i wonder if this was:

a. Ben demanding the ball
b. Flip "throwing him a bone"
c. the team (namely, chauncey, as the PG) deciding that Ben needs to be more involved

regardless, i'm not too worried about this from Ben. Ben's little spats come once in a while, but it's usually from him being upset with the team's toughness and/or focus. the team usually responds positively from it.