I hate the NBA

[Cross]

I agree with MOLA. It's because of the refs. They are fucking strict and make the players seem like pussies. No contact is allowed. Dice touches a guy in the paint, foul. Ben out strengths Z for the board, foul. Everythings a fucking foul. This is why you'll see players like Wade getting +20 fts a game. It gets fucking annoying. If a hard foul is commited, you'll have some bitch player going crazy and throwing punches and shit. Something like the brawl. Stern doesnt want that shit to happen. Not so much because of the players getting hurt but he doesnt want to fuck up the NBA's image.

[Darth Thanatos]

I could park a car in her ass.


My new lifelong mission is to find this girl.

[Varsity]

Crab people, yeah. But you can basically blame Crab people for anything.

No, the guy I'm talking about wore number 23 for the Chicago Bulls.

Actually, Jordan is the product of the real reason- expansion. The NBA has made two mistakes-

1. Diluting the league
2. Hyping players over teams

Teams scored more in the 80s because each team had more talent and more guys that could make shots. Each team had 2-3 all star quality players (even the bad teams had decent players). The decision to go from 25-29 teams in 4 years killed that and by the mid 90s, teams were lucky to have 2 big players and teams with 3 or more dominated. (Pip, MJ and Rodman for one) Not only is this the time that Jordan truly began to shine, it's also when the NBA made the second mistake and started to die. Viewership in the early 90s had started to decrease a tad from the Magic/Bird era and they needed to do something to keep the exponential growth.

Seeing that Jordan was shining and instead of focusing on teams like they had done before and is one thing that makes the NFL so successful, they put the league on his shoulders and let him be the face of everything for them...and the NBA soared. What they didnt have the foresight to see is that one day he'd retire and now they have a league where it's fan are only interested in big names and big scorers. Since no one scores like MJ and the diluted talent has teams scoring 90 a game instead 105, they've had to change rules to decrease touch and thus the end of physical play and the start of tons of free throws and an attempt to create new stars that the masses would hop on...both have made the NBA a worse game.

So yeah, you can blame Jordan, but I choose to blame those that put him in that position and on that pedestal as the reason the NBA is suffering. Oh yeah and the refs that created the "Jordan treatment" that allowed him to score at will.

[Waydowntownbang]

I don't know, guys.. it just seems elitist to me to have all these reasons to hate something that we all watch. If it was really that bad, wouldn't you actually turn it off?

Sure, I'd like to see 'team' basketball, perfectly called games by refs, and no more 'superstar' vs. 'superstar'.. but it's not going to happen. And when I get a game where Rip turns on a dime with .4 left and buries a team with a 12 footer, I forget all the crap that we have in today's NBA.

I could understand this argument coming out of a city without a team, let alone a successful one.. but let's not get so spoiled by today's Pistons that we become elistists.. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, but try not to lose sight. Personally, I live for the Pistons. The rest is just details. Call me a slappy.

[Varsity]

I don't know, guys.. it just seems elitist to me to have all these reasons to hate something that we all watch. If it was really that bad, wouldn't you actually turn it off?

Sure, I'd like to see 'team' basketball, perfectly called games by refs, and no more 'superstar' vs. 'superstar'.. but it's not going to happen. And when I get a game where Rip turns on a dime with .4 left and buries a team with a 12 footer, I forget all the crap that we have in today's NBA.

I could understand this argument coming out of a city without a team, let alone a successful one.. but let's not get so spoiled by today's Pistons that we become elistists.. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, but try not to lose sight. Personally, I live for the Pistons. The rest is just details. Call me a slappy.

We watch the game because we love the game, I think some of the NBA just bothers us at times and as fans we can complain, doesn't mean we don't want to watch. At least in my case.

[Artis Gilmore]

I could park a car in her ass.


My new lifelong mission is to find this girl.

[DennyMcLain]

Oh yeah and the refs that created the "Jordan treatment" that allowed him to score at will.

Every professional sports league has a "Jordan treatment". You don't think Roger Clemens gets the calls, or Wayne Gretzky's personal thug Marty McSorely the non-calls? Star WR's get the phantom inches on gracious ball spots all the time.

I agree with the player emphasis -- to a degree. A buddy of mine was a huge Pippen fan, ergo, a Bulls fan as well. But, when Scottie shuffled off the Houston, and then Portland, the Bulls became an afterthought. Same with Shaq. Another friend of mine is a Shaq fan -- not a Lakers fan. When he moved to Miami, he became a Heat fan, regardless of the fact that he never cared for the team before.

But it's not like has never happened before.

Reggie Jackson is known throughout the world as a Yankee, but spent more time (including 3 world series titles) as an Athletic. Gretzky is seen as a King to recreational NHL fans, but had far greater success in Edmonton (how many Cups, again?). How about Wilt? Known as a Laker. But how many of his playing days were spent as a Warrior?

When there's big money involved, or players are viewed as iconic by the powers that be, the "team" always comes second. That's what makes college hoops so great -- at the very most you'll have a player 4 years, a core nucleus even less. The teams are always changing, and the anticipation of stud freshmen growing into their own keeps fans coming back for more. So, the team (or "program") has precident over individuals.

This is why, though I'm a Laker fan at heart, the Pistons are such a great team. They don't have the typecast "superstar" -- they have great players who play well together. They are a formula from the days of old. I remember the Laker starting "six" from the mid 80's -- Jabbar, Johnson, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Rambis (had to throw Rambis in there). They all played roles, and excelled at them. A team does not require a handful of superstars to elevate, simply role players who do what they're supposed to do night in and night out and one star who's there for you with the game on the line.

Maybe the problem is HOW the NBA pimps their players these days, with heavy emphasis on scoring and excitement, and less on fundamentals. Duncan is the king of the bank shot, but bank shots are boring. I fully believe if he hadn't won those two titles, the NBA wouldn't give a flying fuck about him. But, as a champion, they cannot ignore him. Same goes for Hakeem. Without those back-to-back titles in the mid 80's, he would not have been placed on such a high pedestal (or, was he ever?). Still, IMO, the best all-around big man in the history of the Association.. but broken English and a difficult name for some to pronounce, as well as a semi-exciting style of play. If Olajuwon (did I spell it right?) played like his potential heir apparent, Amare Stoudamire (another big man with a complete inside/outside game), we'd be speaking of him with the same tone of greatness as MJ.

Oh, and where'd all of those Yao Ming commercials go? Guess his style of play ain't what the Association had in mind.

[Mikey]

Crab people, yeah. But you can basically blame Crab people for anything.

No, the guy I'm talking about wore number 23 for the Chicago Bulls.

Actually, Jordan is the product of the real reason- expansion. The NBA has made two mistakes-

1. Diluting the league
2. Hyping players over teams

Teams scored more in the 80s because each team had more talent and more guys that could make shots. Each team had 2-3 all star quality players (even the bad teams had decent players). The decision to go from 25-29 teams in 4 years killed that and by the mid 90s, teams were lucky to have 2 big players and teams with 3 or more dominated. (Pip, MJ and Rodman for one) Not only is this the time that Jordan truly began to shine, it's also when the NBA made the second mistake and started to die. Viewership in the early 90s had started to decrease a tad from the Magic/Bird era and they needed to do something to keep the exponential growth.

Seeing that Jordan was shining and instead of focusing on teams like they had done before and is one thing that makes the NFL so successful, they put the league on his shoulders and let him be the face of everything for them...and the NBA soared. What they didnt have the foresight to see is that one day he'd retire and now they have a league where it's fan are only interested in big names and big scorers. Since no one scores like MJ and the diluted talent has teams scoring 90 a game instead 105, they've had to change rules to decrease touch and thus the end of physical play and the start of tons of free throws and an attempt to create new stars that the masses would hop on...both have made the NBA a worse game.

So yeah, you can blame Jordan, but I choose to blame those that put him in that position and on that pedestal as the reason the NBA is suffering. Oh yeah and the refs that created the "Jordan treatment" that allowed him to score at will.

Didn't MJ constantly bitch and complain about the tough defense the Bad Boys played on him? I always thought the rules changed because of that. I could be wrong...

[Varsity]

Crab people, yeah. But you can basically blame Crab people for anything.

No, the guy I'm talking about wore number 23 for the Chicago Bulls.

Actually, Jordan is the product of the real reason- expansion. The NBA has made two mistakes-

1. Diluting the league
2. Hyping players over teams

Teams scored more in the 80s because each team had more talent and more guys that could make shots. Each team had 2-3 all star quality players (even the bad teams had decent players). The decision to go from 25-29 teams in 4 years killed that and by the mid 90s, teams were lucky to have 2 big players and teams with 3 or more dominated. (Pip, MJ and Rodman for one) Not only is this the time that Jordan truly began to shine, it's also when the NBA made the second mistake and started to die. Viewership in the early 90s had started to decrease a tad from the Magic/Bird era and they needed to do something to keep the exponential growth.

Seeing that Jordan was shining and instead of focusing on teams like they had done before and is one thing that makes the NFL so successful, they put the league on his shoulders and let him be the face of everything for them...and the NBA soared. What they didnt have the foresight to see is that one day he'd retire and now they have a league where it's fan are only interested in big names and big scorers. Since no one scores like MJ and the diluted talent has teams scoring 90 a game instead 105, they've had to change rules to decrease touch and thus the end of physical play and the start of tons of free throws and an attempt to create new stars that the masses would hop on...both have made the NBA a worse game.

So yeah, you can blame Jordan, but I choose to blame those that put him in that position and on that pedestal as the reason the NBA is suffering. Oh yeah and the refs that created the "Jordan treatment" that allowed him to score at will.

Didn't MJ constantly bitch and complain about the tough defense the Bad Boys played on him? I always thought the rules changed because of that. I could be wrong...

They didn't stop the Pistons from beating up people, they just wouldn't let them beat up MJ anymore.

[MoTown]

I just have the bad feeling that we're in for a repeat performance of the conference finals last year where the refs actually went out of their way to protect Wade.

The time where Wade ran into a stationary Sheed, fell over, the ref started to call a foul on Wade, saw that it was Wade, which would have been his 5th foul and proceeded to reverse the call to a charge on Sheed. That literally made me walk out of the room.