You would think our economy would be much further along without the war. Who paid for this war? We all did. I just hate stupid spending by the government. Now he is taking money out of other programs to pay for this disaster because he ran out of money. The economic impact of those war has to be in the trillions.
Skelly we need to get you away from the Licks and into Libertarianism. You're too smart for these fuckers to buy your vote. The days of fiscally conservitive republicans are over, now its just a matter of what you want to burn your money, foolish social programs or foolish wars AND foolish social programs.Originally Posted by SKelly
Unfortuntely the economy is going gangbusters right now by any measure. GDP is growing nicely and corporate profits were the highest they been in a long time. I think you're looking at Michigan, that's an auto industry issue laid in the laps of poor management and unions.
Not by he measure where you include govt debt. Its easy to grow the nation when you're injecting it with $ both with increased spending and lowered taxes. I'm all for reducing tax burdens and the inefficientcies that they incur, but replacing the "tax and spend" philosophies of democrats with "don't tax and spend anyway" is going to eventually burn us regardless of immediate gains.Unfortuntely the economy is going gangbusters right now by any measure.
The economy ios growing regardless of hte tax cuts and deficit spending which by the way was needed to come out of the recession. I am not a fan of gov't spending like drunken sailors but don't minimize the growth of the overall economy. Unemployment is low and corporate profits are the highest they been in 20 years. Those have nothing to do with lower taxes or deficit spending, they have to do with consumer demand and productivity utilization.Not by he measure where you include govt debt. Its easy to grow the nation when you're injecting it with $ both with increased spending and lowered taxes. I'm all for reducing tax burdens and the inefficientcies that they incur, but replacing the "tax and spend" philosophies of democrats with "don't tax and spend anyway" is going to eventually burn us regardless of immediate gains.Unfortuntely the economy is going gangbusters right now by any measure.
But I hear your point on spending. You should also throw in the negative savings rate of the country too.
Well, I'd argue that government spending does effect demand and unemployment (temporarily), and I heard that consumer purchases stayed pretty steady throught the recession, but without a doubt corporate investment is up and with it profits. Hopefully its not just a reaction to the tax cut, but real sustainable growth that can pull us clean out the other side of this hole.
Admins - feel free to split this discussion off into a 'Economy" thread if you want.
Hermy, here is some data for you since it seems you are interested in the stuff. I look at this data all day and can appreciate a good ol fashion American Economics discussion.
I will first say that the economy is actually more resilient and better than the numbers suggest. The three critical indicators that can help you evaluate the direction of the economy—the gross domestic product (GDP), the Consumer Price Index (CPI), and the unemployment rate—were little changed in 2005, suggesting a relatively healthy, stable economy, despite devastating hurricanes and price shocks in the oil market.
Consumer prices rose 3.4% in 2005. This suggests small rise in inflation but no doubt helped kept in check by the Fed raising interest rates.
The unemployment rate fell a bit, to 4.9% from 5.5%, at the end of 2004. Economists deem the unemployment rate invaluable to gauging the health of the economy on a monthly basis and to formulating forecasts for almost every other economic indicator. I believe Michigan though is running around 7% and this is where some confuse Michigans economy with the overall economy. Dare I say that unemployment nationally under Bush is lower than it was under Clinton.
Long-term interest rates barely budged in 2005, which was surprising, given the rise in short-term rates. Analysts attributed the flattened yield curve to increased global liquidity and high demand for U.S. fixed-income securities, a more optimistic interpretation than the traditional prediction of a coming recession.
So overall a bang up job. The average American is in a lot of trouble though do to their spending habits. On the negative side. Bankruptcies are at an all time high. Americans spend more than they save which by the way is the lowest of any developed country. The party's over and it's time to pay back those debts. If the consumer stops spending then we are all in trouble.
Couple questions:
was your CPI without energy? I know most costs were kept low thanks to a heavy trade deficit, but petrol and HHO should have pulled the number higher on their own.
The securities thing scares me as China has stated a policy of removing themselves from an oversaturation of US debt. There will always be decent demand as the dollar > all other currencies by a great deal, but a decline at the wrong time could be key in finally slowing consumer spending (coupled with your note on savings).
IMO what we need is a combination of a groundswell in wages (brought on by innovation, not some rise in the min-wage trash), coupled with the flux of spending and worker adjustment that should be brought on by the baby-boom transition into retirement. If this doesn't play out though we could be looking at a bad combination of a worker shortage coupled with declines in actual wages leading to an awful inflation. Gonna be a tough 10 years IMO, but thats why Econ is the dismal science. Everything that happens can be spun as bad somehow, and as you say we are presently trending high. Its a matter of sustaining it though what will be rough adjustments.
Great points. Who would of thought we could get an economics thread going.
"The securities thing scares me as China has stated a policy of removing themselves from an oversaturation of US debt. There will always be decent demand as the dollar > all other currencies by a great deal, but a decline at the wrong time could be key in finally slowing consumer spending (coupled with your note on savings).
This has been a worry for some time, if other countries decide to pull the plug on our treasuries. "
im no economist, but this seems like a double edged sword to me. i dont know where i read this, but in the near future our national debt is about to become more than 50% owned by foreign agencies.
obviously, we need that support to keep going, but letting foreigner's leech off our debt is dangerous too.
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