pissed ons vs craptors

[Koolaid]

Toronto has been offering Calderon up for years. They've found no takers for years, despite his gaudy assist numbers every year. The guy is a notoriously bad defender. He just is.

Shit yes I'd love to have him on our team, but the guy has some big weaknesses.

Calderon isn't even a starter for TORONTO. They traded their 1st round pick next season for Kyle Lowry. He's their franchise PG.

Do I think Calderon is under-appreciated in Toronto? Yeah. But the fact remains nobody else in the NBA really appreciates him either, or else he'd have been traded by now.

I kinda remember that he had a really stupid contract. I'm sure that has something to do with it. If he was getting paid Will Bynum money for the last few years there's no way that every team in league would be too dumb to not offer something for him.

Also did Toronto even have another option at the point? I remember Calderon starting for them for quite awhile. where were the rumors of him getting shopped coming from? Teams don't showcase a guy for 5 years typically.

[Kstat]

Yeah, but if a team out there felt he was really that good, they'd have traded an expiring contract for him. They also wouldn't have traded a lottery pick for another point guard if they had any intention of keeping him around.

[Kstat]

I kinda remember that he had a really stupid contract. I'm sure that has something to do with it. If he was getting paid Will Bynum money for the last few years there's no way that every team in league would be too dumb to not offer something for him.

Also did Toronto even have another option at the point? I remember Calderon starting for them for quite awhile. where were the rumors of him getting shopped coming from? Teams don't showcase a guy for 5 years typically.

I remember a game two years ago where we played the Raptors just before the trade deadline, and the raptors TV guys were speaking like he would be a Piston by the next day. As I recall he even got a standing O from the crowd as a pseudo-send off when he checked out of the game. Every trade deadline, theyre shopping the guy.

[Pharaoh]

I do recall from time to time there would be rumours of Calderon being shopped... but is that a case of him having some serious weaknesses or an indication that Toronto foolishly overpaid him and wanted to move him on?

I'm not saying Calderon doesn't have issues as a player - but IMO he was shopped because they overpaid him and wanted to get out from under his contract

Remember when people said Atlanta was stupid to overpay for Joe Johnson? Worked OK for them... and now Brooklyn overpay him

Toronto thought they had a franchise point... and Calderon just didn't get to that level. But they found that out after they gave him huge money. That's on them.

If Calderon was making MLE money he would have been traded years ago. It's that simple IMO.

Anyway, I'm all for signing Calderon this off-season. Him feeding Monroe and Drummond while helping Knight would be awesome! The question is $$$.

Assuming he'll get offers from all over for the MLE how much more would we have to pay for him to choose Detroit over some other location? A starting salary of $6 mil? $7 mil? $8 mil?

At what price point does it stop being worth it? Assuming it's a 3 or 4 year deal... what amount is the limit you'd offer?

[Kstat]

Considering he'll be 32, I stop at the MLE.

[Koolaid]

i wouldn't offer the dude shit unless chauncey billups said no. there might be a few other guys i'd put above him as well. i'd still like him better than the shit i watch on this roster though, but I don't really see how it could be worse so that isn't saying much.

[Kstat]

Chauncey Billups will be 37 next summer, and on top of that he can't stay healthy longer than 5 games.

I'd offer Stuckey for Calderon straight up, though.

[Pharaoh]

Point Guards that might interest some of us here:

Jarrett Jack - He's a Joe Dumars Guy
Jose Calderon - 32 year old = veteran/mentor
Chauncey Billups - the farewell tour
Jerryd Bayless - He's a Joe Dumars Guy
Toney Douglas - almost a Joe Dumars Guy

If you guys don't know what I mean when I say "Joe Dumars Guy": back in the day when we had Chauncey and Big Ben the collective basically coined the phrase (since stolen by CM Punk to praise Paul Heyman). It means players who have bounced around the league but haven't really found a home for whatever reason.... like Chauncey and Big Ben before they arrived in Detroit.

Calderon and Billups would be strictly mentor types... Jack would be viewed as our 3rd guard, likely creating issues with Stuckey. Bayless and Douglas would be viewed as depth signings and cheap options... but could end up being something "more"

[Koolaid]

Chauncey Billups will be 37 next summer, and on top of that he can't stay healthy longer than 5 games.

I'd offer Stuckey for Calderon straight up, though.

I don't care.

1. he deserves to retire a piston.
2. he'll teach the young guys way more.

he can be old and injured and still do those things.

calderon isn't a piece for the future anyways. i'd probably rather have eric maynor over him as well for that reason.

[Pharaoh]

Can someone enlighten me on Maynor? I see his name coming up often when talking about free agents and every time I'm seen the Thunder play he rarely gets off the bench.

Dude played 82 games as a rookie, 9 games last season and so far this season he's played 25 games. For his career he's averaged less than 15 minutes per game!

What kind of money are people thinking of giving him?

In the 25 games he's played this season he's managed to shoot 29 of 94 (30.9%), 12 of 38 from 3 point land (31.6%).

Only played more than 20 minutes twice:

Nov 6 v TOR. Thunder won 108-88 so that explains his big minutes... shot 3 of 9, zero boards, 2 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 steal, 9 points

Nov 26 v CHA. Thunder won 114-69 LMAO. shot 2 of 8, 3 boards, 6 assists, 2 turnovers, 7 points

I realise the numbers don't mean much - it's more about how he plays and how well he'd compliment Knight, Monroe and Drummond...but how can anyone reasonably judge Maynor when the kid has played less than 15 minutes per game over 100+ games and his career shooting percentages are pretty poor?

My "pick" as a Joe Dumars like signing is Bayless....

So far this season Bayless has played 23 games, averages over 16 minutes per... played over 20 minutes 4 times this season (FWIW he's averaged over 20 minutes for a season twice):

Nov 17 v CHA Grizz won 94-87... Bayless went 2 for 5 from the floor, 2 boards, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, 3 BLOCKS, 5 points

Nov 26 v CLE Grizz won 84-78... Bayless started, played 34 minutes, 3 of 11 from the floor, 3 boards, 6 assists, 3 turnovers, 1 steal, 2 BLOCKS, 9 points

Dec 1 v Spurs Grizz lost 99-95... shot 1 for 8 from the floor, 1 board, 3 assists, 1 turnover, 1 steal, 5 points

Dec 7 v Hornets Grizz won 96-89... shot 1 of 2 from the floor, 4 boards, 2 assists, 1 turnover, 5 points

Then on Decmber 14th Bayless hands out 11 assists in 17 minutes (only 1 turnover), Grizz beat Denver in Denver, his +/- stat is +6 and he scored zero points!

Why do I think Joe Dumars would look at Jerryd Bayless (and possibly want to eat him, I mean sign him)? Bayless is 25 years old next August, was picked 11th by Indiana, traded to Portland on Draft Day, traded to New Orleans in 2010... then later traded to Toronto... Raptors withdrew their qualifying offer this past off-season so he signed with Memphis...but he has a player option for next season that pays him slightly less than $4 mil

Assuming he doesn't opt out what would it take to get him from the Grizz? A team over the tax threshold?

The fact Bayless has bounced around the league for so long and has never found a home is a worry... but Joe seemed to love those kind of dudes back in the day. Especially guys who have been through the ringer and haven't even scratched the surface of their talent yet. Bayless also has playoff experience - made it with the Blazers back in 08-09 and 09-10...

his playoff numbers from 09-10 = 27 minutes per, 13.5 points, 2.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 43% FG, 40% from 3 point land, 6 games played, started 2 of them... 6 games ain't much experience but they all count... don't they?

Guys like Jack, Bayless and Dorell Wright used to be what Joe was looking for... maybe he goes back to that after the failure that was Nova and BG? Maybe he doesn't?

Fun Fact: Jerryd Bayless has been traded for Jarrett Jack TWICE! Portland acquired Bayless on Draft Day for Brandon Rush.. Jack was part of the extra shit that went into that deal. Then Toronto acquired Bayless and Peja for Jack, my boy Marcus Banks (old school reference) and Aussie David Andersen!