Fuck you Joe , Frank, and Sally. Start Drummond!

[Kstat]

Subjective analysis is all you can go by when evaluating perimeter defense. I thought we established this already. If you don't like my subjective analysis on his defense, don't throw slop against the wall.

If you want something telling to look for, and I know watching a basketball game for something ther than highlight plays is a big step for you, look at the other team's offensive output at the end of the first quarter. Knight routinely plays the first 12 minutes (unless he gets in foul trouble), and usually the team we play is in an offensive funk early. That's not a coincidence.

[BubblesTheLion]

Subjective analysis is all you can go by when evaluating perimeter defense. I thought we established this already. If you don't like my subjective analysis on his defense, don't throw slop against the wall.

I can find a bunch of great perimeter defenders and show you statistical evidence for it, and vice versa. We can even account for pace , opponents, teammates, days rest, anything you want, just takes effort. But no matter how hard you try, you will not make Brandon Knight look like a very good defender, because stats are just mathematical analysis of reality, its not like we are trying to model intuition, potential, leadership, or any other intangible. You are trying to make defense sound like it is intangible, it isn't. Just a little complicated. Neither one of our analysis are totally objective, I just happen to have facts to back me up, and you'll always be left shitting in your hands.

If you want something telling to look for, and I know watching a basketball game for something ther than highlight plays is a big step for you, look at the other team's offensive output at the end of the first quarter. Knight routinely plays the first 12 minutes (unless he gets in foul trouble), and usually the team we play is in an offensive funk early. That's not a coincidence.

Ah yes, the old if you disagree with me you aren't watching him play nonsense. Well, I do watch him play, hell, I even watched him play Live. That's right, I paid money to watch the Pistons last year, I was one of those 8 people. I watched about 40 games on the tube. I've probably watched 800 games in the past decade. I also play badly 4 times a week. Unfortunately, I'm not some casual asshole, sorry. Otherwise I wouldn't even be here talking about a 2nd year PG for a shitty team. I liked the Monroe and Knight picks and it makes me excited for the team's future. I was even excited for the team to come out strong after the all star break like they did. When these idiots decide to start Drummond, I'll buy the broadband league pass. You still have to go and prove your case against the evidence. I am not going to examine a sample size of 12 minutes in 1 quarter for a guy that is out there for over 30 and the game. If you can show a strong trend in the sample over the course of at least half the year, I'll take it into consideration as potentially useful and discuss any data, but right now, not even worth my time when the burden of proof remains on you.

[Kstat]

I'm sure there could be a comprehensive statistical analysis of perimeter defense. Your problem is, there currently isn't one, and making one would be extremely difficult.

The burden of proof isn't on me. There is no reliable stat saying knight can't play defense, either.

When knight is in the game, the other team's point guard does not get into the lane, and he doesn't get good shots. I don't need a stat to tell me what my eyes are already telling me.

[BubblesTheLion]

I'm sure there could be a comprehensive statistical analysis of perimeter defense. Your problem is, there currently isn't one, and making one would be extremely difficult.

The burden of proof isn't on me. There is no reliable stat saying knight can't play defense, either.

There are plently of metrics that have a very strong correlation between observable defensive ability and statistically analysis. You just refuse to accept them even if they can effectively tell you that Lindsey Hunter was one of the better defnders of 03-04 with a high degreee of certainty. Tell me this, do your own eyes also watch every PG in the league play every other PG in the league? If not, your eyes are watching from only one perspective and could perhaps be (gasp) biased. I call it the Lions QB effect, poor QB play looks amazing in comparision to god awful. A lot of the statistics used to measure defense are based on matchups. Rankings are set by comparison, and so the elite and poor are determined as such. Just as we can tell who is a volume scorer on a bad team, and who is a true scorer, we can also determine who is playing lock down perimeter defense with a reasonable level of certainty.

When knight is in the game, the other team's point guard does not get into the lane, and he doesn't get good shots. I don't need a stat to tell me what my eyes are already telling me.

There are stats that would verify what you are saying, so we don't need to rely on anyone's eyes. Like I said, I've also watched him play, and I agree with what the stats are representing as far as his defensive ability. You still need to bring it to the table or just conceed this is merely your opinion and you are unwilling/unable to provide strong evidence.

[shags]

Or if you want to argue Knight's a bad defensive player, you could show Stephen Curry abusing him in the first six minutes of the third quarter of tonight's game, which was essentially the catalyst for a Golden State win.

[BubblesTheLion]

Or if you want to argue Knight's a bad defensive player, you could show Stephen Curry abusing him in the first six minutes of the third quarter of tonight's game, which was essentially the catalyst for a Golden State win.

Or we can play by Kstat rules and just do the first 12.
Penetration and defensive lapses a plenty.

[Kstat]

Or if you want to argue Knight's a bad defensive player, you could show Stephen Curry abusing him in the first six minutes of the third quarter of tonight's game, which was essentially the catalyst for a Golden State win.

That was the worst game I ever saw knight play. Totally out of character for him. He looked like he didn't even want to be there.

Doesn't change my opinion of knight's defensive ability, but it was certainly discouraging.

[Koolaid]

I was at the game tonight.

Drummond looked amazing in person.

It's actually a bit unreal that he impacts the game as much as he does considering he still gets lost on defense and gambles way too much. He got burned a few times in this game. I hope he's intelligent enough to understand when is a proper time to gamble for a block or a steal in the future, because he'll be a fucking monster if that happens.

Also, as weird as it might sound, he needs work physically too. He's huge, he's heavy, he's quick, but he doesn't really look that strong out there. He doesn't really bang in the post yet. He just leaps and uses his speed for everything right now. He also has a pretty odd posture when he runs, but I'm guessing that's why he has that penguin nickname.

His free throws look much worse in person than they do on TV. His shot has an awkward spin on it sometimes, a bit like Joakim Noah's. He also leans back when shooting like Ben Wallace used to do. It really doesn't look like anyone ever coached him on his shot at all.

He dunked the fuck out of everything, which I hope he does more of. That lay up put back bullshit he was doing before this was dumb as fuck. Dude needs to slam.

[Pharaoh]

How long until Drummond starts? It seems we're to stop a runaway train.

Sure he's raw but who gives a shit? Start him, play him 30 minutes and see what he can do. Worst case scenario seems to be DeAndre Jordan II.

And it hasn't been mentioned here yet but:

Would you be open to trading Monroe for a stud wing player? Would you rather pay Monroe the MAX or do you believe Monroe wouldn't be worth that much?

[Koolaid]

Would you be open to trading Monroe for a stud wing player? Would you rather pay Monroe the MAX or do you believe Monroe wouldn't be worth that much?

I'd trade him for the right package. He isn't a max player, his defense isn't even close to justifying that pay. Who's the stud wing player you think would available?