Fuck you Joe , Frank, and Sally. Start Drummond!

[BubblesTheLion]

I don't want to hear anymore bullshit about development or earning a spot.
Also, I don't even know who Sally is, but fuck her too. (<- but fuck)

Knight, Drummond, Monroe. That is the core of the team now, everyone else is fucking replaceable worthless garbage juice role playing over the hill wishy washy non-elite nba sludge. Fuck you Max, you play great helpside because no one respects your size and constantly challenges you with garbage , you should be coming off the bench. Who the fuck is Singler? I have no fucking idea, but it sure seems like he would benefit from playing wtih guys who could realistically grab 25 boards all by themselves. As would that Brandon Knight kid, given that his defense is horrendous it would be nice to have opposing guards run into a shitstorm of long and quick. Even purple rain would benefit from the spacing. But hey, this isn't about winning games, or selling tickets, or even coherent development of a youthful core. This is about lowering expectations so far that when this squad inevitably starts playing .500 ball next year you marks will pile into the arena. Could they do that this year? Probably, hell, I bet they could be a 7th or 8th seed if anyone saw fit to give it a shot. But FUCK me right? Fuck my semi-sweet white chocolate emergency exit. Lets watch our future superstar idle in the bench where he is learning the useful skill of sitting on his ass.

Tax the rich, eat the poor, kiss my ass, Will Bynum forever, peace to your mother.

[DrRay11]

no u

[Timone]

How are things with the woman, old friend? It's so cool to see one of us make it.

[BubblesTheLion]

How are things with the woman, old friend? It's so cool to see one of us make it.

She dumped me , so I got a new one, a better one.
WHICH IS HOW JOE SHOULD RUN THIS FUCKING TEAM.

[Kstat]

Sorry. You lost me when you called Brandon knight a horrendous defender. That's a departure from common sense that many of us will never reach in our lifetimes. Not only is knight not horrendous, he's actually very, very good on defense.

Then again, you still seem to be in love with will Bynum...

[Uncle Mxy]

My hunch is that Drummond starts by the trade deadline.

[yargs]

My hunch is that Drummond starts by the trade deadline.

I believe the main reason drummond isn't playing more has to do with conditioning rather than performance and/or a coach's inability to recognize his future value as a starting player. He's been primarily an energy guy during the first month of the season and I believe both he and his body are still trying to adjust to this role and the physical demands. It also looks like he's lost a little weight, especially in the upper body, since entering the NBA which I believe also has to do with him adjusting to this role. Once he gets the physical/conditioning part down there's no doubt he'll be in the starting lineup, perhaps by the trade deadline if not sooner...I'm thinking sooner.

Either way I'm not concerned at all as it's just a matter of time before he will be ready to start against starting-quality NBA bigs. And I keep reminding myself that Dennis Rodman only played 15 minutes a game in his first season (77 games) and you can't say that other guys were keeping him off the floor (sydney green...tony campbell...)

Patience my friends.

[BubblesTheLion]

Sorry. You lost me when you called Brandon knight a horrendous defender. That's a departure from common sense that many of us will never reach in our lifetimes. Not only is knight not horrendous, he's actually very, very good on defense.

Then again, you still seem to be in love with will Bynum...

Bynum love is admittedly irrational, always has been. One of my favorite college players. Horrific NBA player.

Knight criticism is rational.
You say Knight is very, very good on defense? Lets make sure we highlight this as your claim, because that is a very large claim which will require outstanding evidence. So far, I can only find evidence to the contrary. For instance http://www.82games.com/1213/1213DET5.HTM Detroit has the worst PG differential in the NBA and the worst opposing PG PER I've found(correction, Cleveland is worse). Too small of a sample size you say? Here is last year, not all that different. http://www.82games.com/1112/1112DET5.HTM Don't think the results are meaningful? take what you think are the top 10 best, and top 10 worst and see how they compare. It isn't pretty.
Or take Dtrg 303 Brandon Knight out of 420 http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._advanced.html
Or 393 of 478 Brandon Knight the year before. http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._advanced.html

You'll either have to come to the conclusion that there is heavy statistically bias against Brandon Knight, or you're wrong. Caveat being this data does not isolate just Brandon knight or any other starter, so it is not entirely fair (team game). In spite of that, I challenge you to show me anything to the contrary.

So, what do we know about Brandon Knight, we know that he is a fantastic deep threat and inconsistent playmaker, and this is the potential we hope becomes more developed. These attributes are very much accounted for in any statistical analysis of him. Defensively it is harder to gauge a player, but Knight is fairly easy. He is not good in any classic or comparative categories.

To summarize, you replied to my post in a very contentious way. You attacked my credibility on the basis of something I do farcically. You made a counter claim with no evidence, and even went as far to call my analysis a departure from common sense that no one else would make.

What is less explainable, though, is Knight’s dropoff in defense. Knight’s defensive rating was 109 as a rookie and it’s slightly worse at 110 this season. He’s getting significantly fewer steals too (.7 per 36 minutes last season, .4 this season; 1.2 percent steal percentage last season, .7 percent this season), a disappointment considering his quickness and long arms, which should theoretically help him get into passing lanes.

http://www.pistonpowered.com/2012/12...s-complicated/


I look forward to nothing meaningful from you on this topic in the future.

[Kstat]

Of course there's a statistical bias against Knight's defense. There's always going to be a statistical bias against a guard that doesn't accumulate steals or blocks and simply keeps his man from creating offense. The only way a player like that makes an impact statistically is in the team concept. Guess what? The Pistons are a pretty damn good defensive team when Knight is on the floor.

Perimeter defense is almost impossible to quantify with statistics. The opposing PG differential stat is flawed because Knight doesn't play the entire game, and because it factors in offensive production. In addition, steals are the single most misleading indicator of perimeter defense. They're icing on the cake, but if the cake is terrible then they become meaningless.

Knight rarely if ever gets beat off the dribble. He rarely if ever loses track of his man off the ball. Do you know why he rarely gets steals? Because Because he keeps his focus on his man and he doesn't gamble.

The Pistons are the #3 (THIRD) best defensive team in the NBA by FG% at this moment, and the main reason aside from Drummond is Knight. He never allows himself to be broken down by opposing point guards, which forces teams to methodically run offensive sets and work harder to get baskets. That generally relaxes once Stuckey checks in, but Drummond offets that.

Knight has a lot of work to do to be a premier floor leader. At this point, he's probably below average in that aspect. His best attribute, even ahead of his scoring, is his defense. At barely 21, he gets it. He doesn't worry about playing hero ball on defense and gambling all the time. He's too big and too quick for most point guards to get by, and for the most part he plays pick and rolls exceptionally well.

The Pistons have a great chance to be a devastating defensive team in the future with Knight and Drummond. Knight is a brick wall keeping smaller guards out of the paint, and Drummond has the makings of a dominating interior defender, both in the post and off the ball. Teams are going to rack up 24 second violations just trying to get a decent look at the basket.

Oh, and the PistonPowered blog. I'd say the only thing useful for that guy's articles would be toilet paper, but it is in fact an internet site, so it actually has no redeeming qualities at all. It would be nice to let Frank read that crack at Knight's defensive rating just to hear his reaction, because I know Frank is seeing the same thing every night that I am.

BTW, if defensive rating was any factor at all (it isn't), Khris Middleton would be the 7th best defender in the NBA (he's not) one spot above Kevin Love (hilarious) but 3 spot behind Josh Harrelson at #4 (LMAO)

I stand by my departure from logic accusation, by the way. There is no way anyone with a semblance of sanity could watch Knight play for any extended period of time and conclude he is even an average defender. Unless you haven't been watching any Piston games this season and are just reading box scores, in which case I retract my accusation.

[BubblesTheLion]

Of course there's a statistical bias against Knight's defense. There's always going to be a statistical bias against a guard that doesn't accumulate steals or blocks and simply keeps his man from creating offense. The only way a player like that makes an impact statistically is in the team concept. Guess what? The Pistons are a pretty damn good defensive team when Knight is on the floor.

There is no evidence that he is preventing his man from creating offense.

Perimeter defense is almost impossible to quantify with statistics. The opposing PG differential stat is flawed because Knight doesn't play the entire game, and because it factors in offensive production. In addition, steals are the single most misleading indicator of perimeter defense. They're icing on the cake, but if the cake is terrible then they become meaningless.

Steals also show indicate pressure and harassment, which if Knight were this great lock down perimeter defender he would occasionally trip into a few. I'm aware that cherry picking the lane the best way to pad that stat and can make it deceptive. Which is why at no point did I highlight steals , I simply pointed out that he isn't good in any classical category to reinforce the larger point. He doesn't stop anyone.
Also, transitional and help defense exist.

Knight rarely if ever gets beat off the dribble. He rarely if ever loses track of his man off the ball. Do you know why he rarely gets steals? Because Because he keeps his focus on his man and he doesn't gamble.

And Inge doesn't lead the MLB in homers because everyone pitches him like Babe Ruth.

The Pistons are the #3 (THIRD) best defensive team in the NBA by FG% at this moment, and the main reason aside from Drummond is Knight. He never allows himself to be broken down by opposing point guards, which forces teams to methodically run offensive sets and work harder to get baskets. That generally relaxes once Stuckey checks in, but Drummond offets that.

Ok, wow. So statistics that focus on a single position are less valuable to you in evaluating a single position than stats for the entire team? Shut the fuck up, really? REALLY?

Knight has a lot of work to do to be a premier floor leader. At this point, he's probably below average in that aspect. His best attribute, even ahead of his scoring, is his defense. At barely 21, he gets it. He doesn't worry about playing hero ball on defense and gambling all the time. He's too big and too quick for most point guards to get by, and for the most part he plays pick and rolls exceptionally well.

Provide any amount of evidence to support these claims. matchup attempts in the paint and percentages. Mid range attempts and percentages. Distribution of shot selection by opponents. Any of that shit would go a long way towards proving your assertion.

The Pistons have a great chance to be a devastating defensive team in the future with Knight and Drummond. Knight is a brick wall keeping smaller guards out of the paint, and Drummond has the makings of a dominating interior defender, both in the post and off the ball. Teams are going to rack up 24 second violations just trying to get a decent look at the basket.

Redundant ballwashing, moving on.

Oh, and the PistonPowered blog. I'd say the only thing useful for that guy's articles would be toilet paper, but it is in fact an internet site, so it actually has no redeeming qualities at all. It would be nice to let Frank read that crack at Knight's defensive rating just to hear his reaction, because I know Frank is seeing the same thing every night that I am.

I love how in your mind, you are on level with the NBA in evaluation.
I provided that link because you claimed it was an assault against reason to come to the same conclusion I do. I was expecting you to find all these articles heaping praise on his defense.

BTW, if defensive rating was any factor at all (it isn't), Khris Middleton would be the 7th best defender in the NBA (he's not) one spot above Kevin Love (hilarious) but 3 spot behind Josh Harrelson at #4 (LMAO)

#1 every player qualifies
#2 sample size
#3 positional bias. F/C bias for , SF against, Guards Great<100-105<Poor in general.
#4 there are outliers due to pace, injury, supporting cast, but they can usually be explained by other stats in a players line, for Knight, there is no such help.

I stand by my departure from logic accusation, by the way. There is no way anyone with a semblance of sanity could watch Knight play for any extended period of time and conclude he is even an average defender. Unless you haven't been watching any Piston games this season and are just reading box scores, in which case I retract my accusation.

Ok, first of all, I gave up on sanity long ago, but I didn't give up on math and logic. These don't appeal to you, only YOUR SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS is what you provide, because it is the only thing you care about. You love you some you, I get it , you can coach Frank have telepathic pow-wows and shit. Ok. If you won't back your shit up, then keep it out of my toilet.
Baaaaaaaai