Success Next Year?

[Glenn]

Nice post.

[lospistones]

Not to be a Stuckey apologist, which I'm not (since I'm advocating for a role change), but he has had three different coaches in four years, two of which were completely inept and one whose head we were calling for for quite some time (Flip), all three of which have lost the players durign their tenure. When he was playing for the best coach of the three, he was a rookie 8th man. Then he had a shitshow of a backcourt with Iverson and Rip to deal with. Then Gordon was brought in and confused Rip's and Stuckey's roles even further, to the point that nobody's role or position or spot in the lineup was consistent.
Stuckey has hardly developed as a player because he's had to deal with three systems and a revolving door of dominant guards to play alongside (Chauncey, Hamilton, Iverson, Gordon, even McGrady)! All we've done for the kid is say, "hm, you were a combo guard in college...be a point guard in the NBA". That's it. We haven't put him in a situation to excel as a PG, nor have we pushed him to pattern his game in a specific direction. As a result, his instincts kick in, and he's a poor man's Dwyane Wade at the PG position, which leads to tunnel vision, questionable shot selection, and everything but winning basketball. It doesn't help, certainly, when the veteran leadership on the team played selfishly as shit this season.

We don't KNOW if he can play as a "truer" PG because we haven't asked him to.

[Glenn]

Watching Stuckey over these years, I still see Flip Murray/Jerry Stackhouse. Murray actually had better handles and could finish at the rim. But that's who Stuckey is, he wants/needs a high volume of shots, and he wants to get his own, making him a good to average first guard off the bench. Playing him with starters just ends up undermining their ability to contribute. Let him steal shots from the 2nd unit guys, not the starters.

[Koolaid]

Not to be a Stuckey apologist, which I'm not (since I'm advocating for a role change), but he has had three different coaches in four years, two of which were completely inept and one whose head we were calling for for quite some time (Flip), all three of which have lost the players durign their tenure. When he was playing for the best coach of the three, he was a rookie 8th man. Then he had a shitshow of a backcourt with Iverson and Rip to deal with. Then Gordon was brought in and confused Rip's and Stuckey's roles even further, to the point that nobody's role or position or spot in the lineup was consistent.
Stuckey has hardly developed as a player because he's had to deal with three systems and a revolving door of dominant guards to play alongside (Chauncey, Hamilton, Iverson, Gordon, even McGrady)! All we've done for the kid is say, "hm, you were a combo guard in college...be a point guard in the NBA". That's it. We haven't put him in a situation to excel as a PG, nor have we pushed him to pattern his game in a specific direction. As a result, his instincts kick in, and he's a poor man's Dwyane Wade at the PG position, which leads to tunnel vision, questionable shot selection, and everything but winning basketball. It doesn't help, certainly, when the veteran leadership on the team played selfishly as shit this season.

We don't KNOW if he can play as a "truer" PG because we haven't asked him to.

that's a load of shit. Everybody on the fucking team is a scorer basically, so I strongly doubt he was being asked to do that. Why do you think he was getting benched this season? It wasn't just attitude, and people who watched McGrady start know exactly why he got that.


I'm not buying that bullshit about his team playing selfishly either. Ben Gordon hardly ever shoots and the other guys get horrible looks but shoot them anyways.They're shooters though, it's what they're supposed to do. The really funny thing is that even with them not getting spoon fed a god damned thing Tay and Rip were still better options than your boy Stuck.

What I see is a bunch of people blaming everyone but Stuckey even though he's been the only consistent thing. He's played under 3 coaches, and the Pistons sucked under 2 of them (and the first one had him in a reduced role). He's had a shitty backcourt, but every one of those guys has proven himself elsewhere. He's had inconsistent minutes but that's because the kid fucking sucks. It's time to call it as it is, Stuck is a 1 who is better off guarding 2s or 3s. He also is a one man backcourt who doesn't do shit for the other guards on the team. He shoots a low percentage and can't run an offense. His defense on 2s and 3s is his best skill, but considering he's a "1" that doesn't mean much.

[lospistones]

Watching Stuckey over these years, I still see Flip Murray/Jerry Stackhouse. Murray actually had better handles and could finish at the rim. But that's who Stuckey is, he wants/needs a high volume of shots, and he wants to get his own, making him a good to average first guard off the bench. Playing him with starters just ends up undermining their ability to contribute. Let him steal shots from the 2nd unit guys, not the starters.

I mean, yeah. On most good teams Stuckey would either be a starting, slashing SG (Stackhouse) or a combo guard off the bench (Murray), but definitely not a starting PG.
and I actually don't wish him success on this team due to his poor attitude and incidents of insubordination, but I would bet hefty sums that we won't move him. I just don't support making him a SG when Hamilton and Gordon are still on the roster, and they're even more difficult to move. Moving him to the bench would make Will Bynum our starting PG, and that's not conducive to making playoff runs, either.

If he's likely going to stay on the team, as a starter, and as a PG, and with a pay raise that demands increased productivity and usage, we need to make the best of the situation. A change in the offense and play calling will go a long way in reshaping his role into a truer PG, i.e. if we make it CLEAR that Hamilton and Gordon are our primary options, Stuckey will either feed them and we will succeed, or we won't and we genuinely can pin most of the blame on Rodney.

[lospistones]

that's a load of shit. Everybody on the fucking team is a scorer basically, so I strongly doubt he was being asked to do that. Why do you think he was getting benched this season? It wasn't just attitude, and people who watched McGrady start know exactly why he got that.


I'm not buying that bullshit about his team playing selfishly either. Ben Gordon hardly ever shoots and the other guys get horrible looks but shoot them anyways.They're shooters though, it's what they're supposed to do. The really funny thing is that even with them not getting spoon fed a god damned thing Tay and Rip were still better options than your boy Stuck.

What I see is a bunch of people blaming everyone but Stuckey even though he's been the only consistent thing. He's played under 3 coaches, and the Pistons sucked under 2 of them (and the first one had him in a reduced role). He's had a shitty backcourt, but every one of those guys has proven himself elsewhere. He's had inconsistent minutes but that's because the kid fucking sucks. It's time to call it as it is, Stuck is a 1 who is better off guarding 2s or 3s. He also is a one man backcourt who doesn't do shit for the other guards on the team. He shoots a low percentage and can't run an offense. His defense on 2s and 3s is his best skill, but considering he's a "1" that doesn't mean much.

McGrady is an example of somebody whose role can change from a dominant scorer to a playmaker. Stuckey may not have the basketball IQ that McGrady has, though. Then again, I never conceived as Tracy as a cerebral player before this season.
Gordon shoots about as often as Stuckey does. and, if it weren't clear, I'm all for Gordon getting many more shots. Also, and I don't understand how this couldn't have been clear, I'm all for Stuckey concentrating on moving the ball around (and getting his shots via mismatches and transition play) rather than jacking the ball.
Hamilton and Prince were absolute ball-stoppers within this offense. They may have been better individual scorers than Stuckey (which, statistically, doesn't hold up), but they certainly weren't superior in terms of creating for others.
Stuckey's not my boy. In fact, I wanted this thread to be more about Gordon/Hamilton and Villanueva/Monroe expanding their roles and Stuckey diminishing his.

So, wtf.

[Koolaid]

No, Stuckey looks for his shot way more than Gordon even has an opportunity to look for his.

He also looks for his shot more frequently than Tay, although they are supposed to be looking for their own shot. Rip sucked this year, but a lot of that falls on Stuck's shoulders as well. You could still argue that he was better though on account of having a three and not fucking up his team mates rhythms nearly as much.

Statistically, it holds up. Realistically Stuck is going to turn the ball over 2 or 3 times while charging to the rim. He's also going to go to the line a couple times by charging to the rim. that's an extra five possessions dedicated to him scoring a game and it has no impact on his shots per game tally. No other player on this squad has that going on. In all actuality Stuckey is the Pistons first option. When fan boys talk about him being a decent/good scorer they're skewering his stats by highlighting his point per shot, which glorifies his style of looking for a foul more than a basket but disregards his flaws entirely.

[lospistones]

Yes. That's true. and I want Gordon to look for his shot more, and Stuckey to look for his less.

Tay was a ball-stopper and is ideally a 3rd/4th option. He was actually putting up more shot attempts per game than Stuckey. and Gordon. and Hamilton. The most shot attempts of his career, actually. This unselfish veteran should have understood the importance of getting better offense options involved, such as Hamilton/Gordon/Villanueva/Monroe, yet his assists average stayed the same and EVERYBODY else was marginalized on the scoring side of the ball. Let's not forget that this was a contract year for Tayshaun...
Watching Tayshaun play this year was dramatically different than how he played when we were a winning/playoff basketball team.

Rip didn't suck. Rip was underutilized and used improperly when in the game, and his response was to try to create shots for himself if the point guards and offense and coach weren't going to for him. He's not without blame for his poor response to the coaching and role change, but there are mitigating factors.
He's still a good player and still a borderline all-star.

Stuckey averages two turnovers a game. Not three. and I don't think 100% of those game from bullheadedly driving through the lane.
and frankly, I want him shooting as many FTs as possible if he's converting 87% of them. That's a 75% chance that he scores two points per fouled shot attempt. and I don't mind him drawing fouls against opposing point guards when we're in that respective golden age. Rondo, Rose, Jennings, Deron, Billups, Wall, etc. If you told me that we'd donate three possessions a game (i.e. the 6 FTA's Stuckey got) into getting them into foul trouble, I'd take it.

Yes, he is the first option. No, he shouldn't be. Yes, he needs to learn to finish better. He needs to learn to shoot better. He needs to look to his teammates and not his own shot until he can learn to finish and shoot better.

But we can keep arguing about Stuckey like he fucked your mother and taped it over your baby videos. It won't change the fact that our problems are NOT limited to Stuckey. The whole point of my thread is that we have gotten away from utilizing our best players and biggest investments. Gordon, #3 pick, second highest paid player. Hamilton, #7 pick, highest paid player. Villanueva, #7 pick, third highest paid player. Monroe, #7 pick who will undoubtedly make bank when it's time for an extension. It's not Stuckey's fault when all three of them had retardedly low minutes for the season. He doesn't call the plays and he doesn't determine the rotations. Which is why this whole thread was created under the premise that a new coach would be brought in who has a spine!

Imagine that.

[Glenn]

That's pretty cogent.

[Koolaid]

Tay was a ball-stopper and is ideally a 3rd/4th option. He was actually putting up more shot attempts per game than Stuckey. and Gordon. and Hamilton. The most shot attempts of his career, actually. This unselfish veteran should have understood the importance of getting better offense options involved, such as Hamilton/Gordon/Villanueva/Monroe, yet his assists average stayed the same and EVERYBODY else was marginalized on the scoring side of the ball. Let's not forget that this was a contract year for Tayshaun...
Watching Tayshaun play this year was dramatically different than how he played when we were a winning/playoff basketball team.

So Tayshaun needs to be a distributor now? He was passive to the point of being annoying when the team was good, but he wasn't getting teammates good shots or anything. His style of play changed because he's now the best scorer on the team, and if he does pass there's no one to find a better shot. Rip isn't as good as he used to be and if he was he'd be coming off screens for a PG to pass to him, not Tay. The mere idea that you're attacking Tayshaun for the lack of production from those guys shows how fucking dumb you are about this shit.

Rip didn't suck. Rip was underutilized and used improperly when in the game, and his response was to try to create shots for himself if the point guards and offense and coach weren't going to for him. He's not without blame for his poor response to the coaching and role change, but there are mitigating factors.
He's still a good player and still a borderline all-star.

He was used improperly that's why he sucked. The best screwdriver sucks if you're using it as a hammer.I don't see how he could be a borderline all-star though. It certainly isn't going to change with a new coach. That's just crazy talk.

Stuckey averages two turnovers a game. Not three. and I don't think 100% of those game from bullheadedly driving through the lane.

Stuck averages 2.2 turnovers a game. Considering it's impossible to have .2 of a turnover in a game it becomes obvious that in some games the motherfucker is going to have 3. If you don't think a high as fuck percentage of those come from bulldozing the lane I'd suggest you shut the fuck up and watch some games, because that's almost the only time stuck holds a ball long enough to turn it over.

and frankly, I want him shooting as many FTs as possible if he's converting 87% of them. That's a 75% chance that he scores two points per fouled shot attempt. and I don't mind him drawing fouls against opposing point guards when we're in that respective golden age. Rondo, Rose, Jennings, Deron, Billups, Wall, etc. If you told me that we'd donate three possessions a game (i.e. the 6 FTA's Stuckey got) into getting them into foul trouble, I'd take it.

You think those fouls are all going on the points? there's another tell tale sign that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Doesn't matter though because you immediately contradict yourself.

Yes, he is the first option. No, he shouldn't be. Yes, he needs to learn to finish better. He needs to learn to shoot better. He needs to look to his teammates and not his own shot until he can learn to finish and shoot better.

I agree he needs to finish better, shoot better and find teammates better. That would make him an entirely different player though, so why are you stuck on stuck? The dude is way too flawed for me to want to watch him 'develop', and he legitimately seems retarded.

But we can keep arguing about Stuckey like he fucked your mother and taped it over your baby videos. It won't change the fact that our problems are NOT limited to Stuckey. The whole point of my thread is that we have gotten away from utilizing our best players and biggest investments. Gordon, #3 pick, second highest paid player. Hamilton, #7 pick, highest paid player. Villanueva, #7 pick, third highest paid player. Monroe, #7 pick who will undoubtedly make bank when it's time for an extension. It's not Stuckey's fault when all three of them had retardedly low minutes for the season. He doesn't call the plays and he doesn't determine the rotations. Which is why this whole thread was created under the premise that a new coach would be brought in who has a spine!

Hamilton and Gordon can't both have big minutes, that's a roster issue. It has nothing to do with the coach. CV doesn't play defense, so if he's not getting the ball he's useless too. You're talking as if there isn't a clusterfuck of SGs on the roster, and you're speaking as if it's just crazy that Kuester isn't feeding CV minutes. All of these people suck defensively, but they're good scorers. Put them next to Stuckey though, and the offense is shit too somehow. Figure that one out.

Imagine that.

I have, and Stuckey still isn't a PG. CV still doesn't play defense. BG still doesn't get the ball enough. Rip is still old and you're still making excuses for it all.