Is it Time for Leyland to Go?

[micknugget]

I have to say that with all of the talent that the Tigers have had, they really are underachieving. There are several reasons for this but Leyland seems to be the primary one.

Leyland has done a poor job of managing the rookies. When Boesch slumped late last season, he should have been sent down to the minors to regain his swing. The same thing is going on this season with Austin Jackson.

Leyland has done a less-than-stellar job of managing the pitching staff. He uses the wrong guys at the wrong times sometimes or pulls out guys doing well too soon.

These issues are not horrible. What is bad and in my opinion the main reason for his dismissal is Leyland's choice of coaches and loyalty to them. Chuck Hernandez was the worst pitching coach ever yet Leyland stood by him and hurt the team. Now the team is struggling with hitting and McLendon isn't getting the job done and never really impressed me. Until recently, all of the coaches were ex-pirates (staff or players) and we deserve better. The fact that players sent down to the minors returned as better players (Porcello, Scherzer, Rayburn, etc.) speaks volumes.

Your thoughts?

[DrRay11]

uhh, this lineup does not have a whole lot of talent.

I think the pitching staff is really close -- but you may be right about his indecision and disability to nurture young players.

[Glenn]

we've got bunch of minor leaguers disguised as major leaguers

I do hate the infamous "Leyland B lineups", though

[Vinny]

We definitely haven't really had a playoff-level talent group in a few years now. I'm still with Leyland but he does seem to have some sort of a grudge against Sizemore and Raburn as both have deserved more chances than they've gotten. Still time this year though.

Really wish we'd used that $10 M spent on Maggs to get a better starter than Penny though. With Porcello and Coke still question marks we really needed more stability out of that last spot.

[Vinny]

we've got bunch of minor leaguers disguised as major leaguers

I do hate the infamous "Leyland B lineups", though

That's the thing, you can use guys like Rhymes and Kelly when they're the last piece on a contender but when they're core parts of your team there's not much you can do.

I do think that the division's bad enough that if a few things go right we can come close to taking the Central. Those few things could be Verlander-Coke-Scherzer being a rock solid trio, Sizemore coming back up and establishing himself, Andy Oliver coming up and having an ROY-level impact (I'd still prefer he stay down the whole year unless he's just lights out in AAA but lots can happen...).

[micknugget]

Another thing that I noticed which I will attribute to coaching is the fact that the Tigers are the best team in the league at not getting hit by pitches. The batters will do all kinds of "Matrix" type maneuvers to avoid getting hit, even in key situations. I'm sorry but these guys are making millions and they need to take one for the team every once in a while. I remember Rhymes being up at the plate with runners on 2nd and 3rd with nobody out. A pitch came at him that would have hit him in a soft spot (his butt). He practically dove out of the way and then hit into a double play with zero runs scored. Hmm.....bases loaded with nobody out or a double play. It's fundamentally bad baseball and i just saw another Tiger (Rhymes again) down 0-2 and again get out of the way of a pitch that would have put him on base. He ended up striking out.

[Vinny]

Rhymes does need to be replaces soon. If Leyland's holding that up, I definitely have a problem with it.

I must say though, most coaching on getting HBPs better be taking place long before anybody gets to the major leagues. It may be a sign of not choosing "tough" enough players but I don't know that it's something generally discussed on a coaching level in the big leagues.

[Vinny]

It's probably a sign of poor discipline and fundamentals too though, which I guess should be attributed to Leyland.

[WTFchris]

Yeah, I don't think there is that much talent here. You've got a half dozen pitchers (total) that you can count on for good production and a couple decent bats (Cabrera and Victor). Outside that the rest are either aging vets that can't stay healthy or very young players that haven't proven anything for more than a year (if even that).

I'm not sure what he's supposed to do. He has them in contention for a division title every year, which is pretty good since they have upper-middle of the road talent really.

The real issue is with the front office. I wouldn't fire DD (he's only made a couple bad moves IMO, and many good ones) but maybe they need to increase their payroll. DD needs to really take advantage of Maggs/Guillen coming off the books and spend that money on young good talent.

They are only 10th in salaries even with those crappy contracts. 2 teams in their division outspend them. So unless they decide to spend a little more you can't expect them in world series all the time. St Louis, Texas and Colorado made the world series once in the last 5 years (same as Tigers) and they are all in the 90-100 mil range with Detroit. What team that spends less than the Tigers is having better success? NY, Boston, Philly are the top 3 spenders and they are always contenders. That is the way it works. Imagine if you just spent another 15 mil on a good bat. That makes a huge difference day to day and still wouldn't put them in the top 5 payrolls. They can basically do that next year without adding any salary.

[Vinny]

I agree for the most part except that they presumably could have spent the extra $15M this year instead of giving 10 of it to Maggs. I haven't completely given up on Maggs contributing but I don't see much of any way he earns that $10.