F.A. SIGNING: Pistons strike deal with Ben Gordon

[Fool]

Translation: We're idiots for overpaying him.
<groan>

None of the reported totals are that much different from what they offered him in previous years.

[Uncle Mxy]

6 years for $50 million isn't the same as 5 years for $58 million.

could've spent $5-10 million less and had him.

[Fool]

5 years $50 million and six years $54 million were what they are saying he turned down.

[Pharaoh]

So the problem is that we overpaid for Ben Gordon?

Is that why people aren't happy with the signings?

And these are the same people who wanted to sign Carlos Boozer for 5 years or Hedo Turkoglu for 5 years?

I'm laughing my ass off that some are complaining about a few extra million that we just gave a guy that is 26 years old!

And don't look now but OMFG, we gave more millions to a 24 year old!

We're Doomed!

[BIG BEN'S FRO]

So the problem is that we overpaid for Ben Gordon?

Is that why people aren't happy with the signings?

And these are the same people who wanted to sign Carlos Boozer for 5 years or Hedo Turkoglu for 5 years?

I'm laughing my ass off that some are complaining about a few extra million that we just gave a guy that is 26 years old!

And don't look now but OMFG, we gave more millions to a 24 year old!

We're Doomed!

P you'd make a great GM... for the Knicks. 1-2 million dollars means a ridiculous amount to us in this offseason. If you can get that space somehow (especially considering BG didn't get an offer from Chicago as he himself reported), and have even 100K over the MLE, then you are talking about adding a starter rather than a bench player in this offseason. MLE players will probably include Artest, Gortat, maybe even Lamar Odom and Turkoglu and others. Just a couple million would be a huge advantage right now.

That all said, I think the MAX we could have saved on the BG deal was 1 mill per, but at least understand why people feel like overpaying is a bad idea when you are under the cap and bidding against yourself.

[Pharaoh]

P you'd make a great GM... for the Knicks. 1-2 million dollars means a ridiculous amount to us in this offseason.

I'd make a great GM... for the Knicks? Gee, thanks - and let me say for the record that many of you make Larry Brown seem patient by comparison.

Ben Gordon's contract is not yet finalised so before anyone jumps up and down about who paid what to whom y'all need to chill out and take a minute to look at a calendar.

If you can get that space somehow (especially considering BG didn't get an offer from Chicago as he himself reported), and have even 100K over the MLE, then you are talking about adding a starter rather than a bench player in this offseason.

Yeah, I have read 3 or 4 different takes on the "Gordon only got a Pistons offer" story. I don't know which one to believe but I like the one where "The" Raymond Brothers told the Bulls to make an offer and they refused, because Brothers refused to tell the Bulls what Joe offered.

And yes, I am well aware that $100,000 over the MLE will get you a "quality" free agent. I don't know if you get another starter - that depends on who you already have more than who you sign.

MLE players will probably include Artest, Gortat, maybe even Lamar Odom and Turkoglu and others. Just a couple million would be a huge advantage right now.

That all said, I think the MAX we could have saved on the BG deal was 1 mill per, but at least understand why people feel like overpaying is a bad idea when you are under the cap and bidding against yourself.

Artest signing with the Lakers was/is completely unexpected and he likely wouldn't have gone anywhere else for that price. I'm interested in reading more about why he bolted out of Houston, though I have an idea.

A ton of teams are chasing Gortat (according to reports) and while he seems like a great signing at that price (he's a big with potential!) you also have to remember that Orlando can wait 7 days to match.

Odom? Yeah - let's get him! Great idea! Brilliant! Am I the only one who read what Joe said after the season? He wanted guys to compliment Stuckey for the next 3 to 5 years. What's Odom's plan - Don't Retire? (lame but easy)

Same goes for Turkoglu. The guy is 30! Already!

I honestly don't know what you guys expected. We probably got ourselves all worked up with these fantasy line-ups of Bosh/Boozer/Prince/Gordon and Stuckey. All we had to do was get Boozer and Gordon for $9 mil each and then send Rip to Toronto with spare parts and we'd get Bosh.

And how likely was it to happen? But now reality is here and it seems everyone is fuming on July 2nd!!!!

We signed a guy that is 26 years old, All-Star calibre at his position, seems like he could be a reasonable go-to-guy and can go off for big nights offensively. And before we mention money maybe he comes via a sign and trade with someone, too...

Plus we signed a 24 year old combo forward that is also pretty good offensively, can play inside or outside and has improved every season despite playing for Franchises I wouldn't wish on my fellow Aussies (shout out to Bogut and kinda local boy Jawaii)

Maybe I'm optimistic?

[BIG BEN'S FRO]

Hey I am not fuming. In fact, I am fine with the players we got. I just think people are entitled to criticize and its fun to talk about. And its okay for them to be impatient. Even Joe D is impatient and he blew his wad on the first day. Nothing wrong with that.... or maybe there is, and that's the fun.

[Uncle Mxy]

We signed a guy that is 26 years old, All-Star calibre at his position,

So, he's the second coming of Wade, Vince, or Joe Johnson?

AFAICT, Ben Gordon is one dimensional. He's very good at that one dimension, but I think we overpaid nonetheless. We've seen his kind of talent in Detroit before, seen them get overpaid by others and ultimately not be worth the mad money. We're seeing a team whose most expensive player not on the block is similar to Ben Gordon, and their playoff success has been limited. And yes, I'm talking Allan Houston and Michael Redd, respectively.

[Pharaoh]

The thing that gets me is the whole "blew his wad on the first day" thing.

As armchair GM's we sit and post all these different ideas (and I posted more of them than anyone) and very few people were willing to poke holes through those "plans".

Yet the reality of the situation is that you can't allow other teams to court the guys you wanna sign (let's debate why they went after Gordon and Villanueva in the first place?) AND it's highly unlikely you're gonna get a dream line-up that not only looks good on paper but can play as a unit.

Imagine we meet with Gordon and Villanueva on the first day. We preach about our history, our intentions in free agency, our committment to winning and so on.

We then on July 2nd meet with Millsap and Gortat, because it's painfully obvious we need big men. Those 2 guys agree to sign our offer sheets. Sweet! Lucky us! We got some bigs.

Then imagine their current teams taking 6 days to match. That's 6 six days from when the deals get signed - not when they were verbally agreed to.

So from July 2nd until July 13th (or 14th, I forget) Gordon and Villanueva visit with other teams and/or agree to sign and trade deals. Utah and Orlando match our offers for the big men.

Now what? Having lost out on Millsap, Gordon, Villanueva and Gortat who is left on July 14th for us to chase?

And Bubbles might think I'm nuts but I guarantee you that this place would be a complete zoo if Joe did nothing with the cap space. If Joe landed Tyson Chandler for a second round pick and we brought back McDyess on 1 year $6 mil deal this place would have gone big time crazy.

Everyone would have wondered why we didn't sign Gordon, why he was signed and traded for crap when we could have signed him outright for the same price and how come we were stupid enough to chase RFA's in the first place. People would be calling for Joe's head and asking "How stupid is he to think Bosh or Amare are gonna want to come here in 2010".

I guess that's the very nature of message boards - picking things to pieces.

I just wish some people could take a longer view and be a little bit positive about the 2 signings we made.

There was a discussion not long ago and I said I wanted a younger team that worked hard, even if they were not as successful on the floor. It was all about effort - earning their stripes or representing the city of Detroit with pride. And I'm an Aussie!

Many seemed to share the same belief. I guess all that went out the window the moment Gordon and Powder were "signed". Some of you don't really want youth, athleticism or offense. You want what I want: A hard nosed, down and dirty basketball team.

News Flash: That NBA is dead. Deal with it. I have to and I love that kind of basketball more than most. But it's not 1989, it's 2009 and it's about damn time Joe changed things up.

You can't see Maxiell smash Lebron on a breakaway dunk. Max would get 10 games on the suspended list for that. But in 1989 that happened all the time!

Those were the days, but they're gone now. Lost to the pages of history. Like tears in the rain...

[Pharaoh]

So, he's the second coming of Wade, Vince, or Joe Johnson?

AFAICT, Ben Gordon is one dimensional. He's very good at that one dimension, but I think we overpaid nonetheless. We've seen his kind of talent in Detroit before, seen them get overpaid by others and ultimately not be worth the mad money. We're seeing a team whose most expensive player not on the block is similar to Ben Gordon, and their playoff success has been limited. And yes, I'm talking Allan Houston and Michael Redd, respectively.

Are we gonna debate the statement "All-Star calibre"? I went through this the other day. And you're very intelligent, so you know what I meant.

While I agree we overpaid I also don't think the deal is "official" yet as there have been rumours of a sign and trade. Until the deal is official (rumoured new deal is 6 years and $58 mil!) I'm not gonna blast Joe for it.

I'd rather focus on us having 2 more weapons offensively - and that's something we've needed for a long time. While other teams like the Bucks suck because they have too few options to score the ball we (right now) don't seem to have that problem.

I'm reserving final judgement until all this stuff cools down and we see what we do have, what we don't have and what Joe is doing about it.

He must have known he was gonna leave himself short of bigs and must have some things lined up, otherwise we wouldn't have signed who we signed...

Right?