The torture thing

[Fool]

We are the most powerful country the world has ever seen. Anyone who says we need to brutalize individuals to keep ourselves safe is insulting US.

[DennyMcLain]

We are the most powerful country the world has ever seen. Anyone who says we need to brutalize individuals to keep ourselves safe is insulting US.

We're dealing with an illogical mindset, here. Sometimes, brutal force is the only option.

As for the terrorists.... I'm sure dropping a 3000 pound laser guided bomb into the window of a hideout and pulverizing 100 men to mere atoms is far less brutal than torturing, under supervision, one terrorist.

We mourn as a media when innocent life is lost due to an errant ordinance drop or incomplete intelligence. It's OK to have a heart and to care, and it's okay to want to free a people and allow them a fighting chance to gain independence from tyranny (last time I checked, I think that's what we're trying to accomplish in Iraq), but understand that in a time of war you must perform necessary functions, and sometimes these functions are questionable at best.

[Tahoe]

We are the most powerful country the world has ever seen. Anyone who says we need to brutalize individuals to keep ourselves safe is insulting US.

Well it worked. Khalied Muhamed didnt' start singing til they faked him out by pouring some water over his head (with 2 doctors present). It saved innocent citizens lives.

[Fool]

If it was clear that it worked, you wouldn't have as big an argument.

Btw, it doesn't matter if it worked or not and if you don't understand that you missed the entire point of my last point.

[Tahoe]

If it was clear that it worked, you wouldn't have as big an argument.

Btw, it doesn't matter if it worked or not and if you don't understand that you missed the entire point of my last point.

I roll like that sometimes...most of the time.

And it did work.

[Fool]

Saying it doesn't make it true.

[Hermy]

it didn't work if we were paying the people who did the torturing. Waste of resources. Same with the bombs.

[Hermy]

Chicago radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller decided he'd get himself waterboarded to prove the technique wasn't torture.

It didn't turn out that way. "Mancow," in fact, lasted just six or seven seconds before crying foul. Apparently, the experience went pretty badly -- "Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop," according to NBC Chicago.

"The average person can take this for 14 seconds," Marine Sergeant Clay South told his audience before he was waterboarded on air. "He's going to wiggle, he's going to scream, he's going to wish he never did this."

Mancow was set on a 7-foot long table with his legs elevated and his feet tied.

"I wanted to prove it wasn't torture," Mancow said. "They cut off our heads, we put water on their face...I got voted to do this but I really thought 'I'm going to laugh this off.' "

The upshot? "It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke," Mancow told listeners. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."

"Absolutely. I mean that's drowning," he added later. "It is the feeling of drowning."

"If I knew it was gonna be this bad, I would not have done it," he said

[Pharaoh]

OK, I'm done reading:

It seems some people are saying that torture is a worthy tool to use in certain situations and when at war shit is gonna happen that normally you wouldn't tolerate.

I think the other side is claiming that torture under any circumstances is not OK. These people are claiming that as "Americans" you guys are better than that, are different to all the crazy fuckers in the world and that your country should "try" to be that beacon of hope for the world.

I guess in the end it comes down to what you guys really feel is important for your country. Do you want the terrorists to get what they "deserve" or do you really wanna try and be the country that the rest of the world looks at and praises for your "enlightenment" (for lack of a better word).

The rest of the world can go batshit crazy, but as that "beacon of hope", that symbol of "greatness" the good ol' US of A doesn't join the fun - it speaks out against that shit, preaches diplomacy and all that stuff.

Is that realistic? Fuck No! But the fact remains that certain Americans do believe that they are "better" than the rest of us regular folk, simply because we're not Americans. If you wanna believe you're better, than act like it.

Don't act like little kids, saying "they attacked us first". That's a cop out and only proves that "America" isn't better, it's just like everyone else.

[Tahoe]

OK, I'm done reading:

It seems some people are saying that torture is a worthy tool to use in certain situations and when at war shit is gonna happen that normally you wouldn't tolerate.

I think the other side is claiming that torture under any circumstances is not OK. These people are claiming that as "Americans" you guys are better than that, are different to all the crazy fuckers in the world and that your country should "try" to be that beacon of hope for the world.

I guess in the end it comes down to what you guys really feel is important for your country. Do you want the terrorists to get what they "deserve" or do you really wanna try and be the country that the rest of the world looks at and praises for your "enlightenment" (for lack of a better word).

The rest of the world can go batshit crazy, but as that "beacon of hope", that symbol of "greatness" the good ol' US of A doesn't join the fun - it speaks out against that shit, preaches diplomacy and all that stuff.

Is that realistic? Fuck No! But the fact remains that certain Americans do believe that they are "better" than the rest of us regular folk, simply because we're not Americans. If you wanna believe you're better, than act like it.

Don't act like little kids, saying "they attacked us first". That's a cop out and only proves that "America" isn't better, it's just like everyone else.

Its not about terrorists getting what they deserve. WTF is that. Its not about vengeance. Its about protecting innocent victims from being murdered. Its about getting info to save innocent peeps lives.

So you can save all the torture(your word) for vengeance stuff.

Also, just by using the word 'torture' describing 'waterboarding' is mistating things in the first place from my pov.

2 fucking doctors and pouring some water over them isn't torture homes.