The torture thing

[Zip Goshboots]

The Iraq War is about us having an oil stronghold in the middle east while the Chinese re-colonize Africa to make a stunning natural resources grab--and we stay friends with them because they are doing the dirty work the world has wanted for so long: to turn Africa into a giant factory. It's a grand plan if you pause to think about it. Russia is OK--they've got tons of oil. It will be down to China, Russia, Norf America, and of course, Souf America will be the worlds farm field one day. Ho my--it's a coming, the New World Order.

[Tahoe]

presumably me.

You were harmed how?

[Zip Goshboots]

You were harmed how?

By the erosion of the so-called values of being an American. The ideal of being American. The staunch belief that we are better than those who violate the rights of human beings. By seeing that the rights of human beings only apply so far as to protect American business and political interests. By being embarrassed to be American because of the Hypocrisy with which this country is governed. And by seeing so many Americans blindly support things like torture and the abandonment of their own freedoms to support a policy that is dangerous to the world and has made many more people angry with us. And by knowing that it didn't have to be that way.

[Tahoe]

By the erosion of the so-called values of being an American.

One of our first values is to defend this country, imo. Defend our children and families against terrorists.

The ideal of being American. The staunch belief that we are better than those who violate the rights of human beings.

So fucks around the world, and in this country, want to fly planes into building and murder thousands of innocent US citizens and other innocent citizens, and we can be better than them by just asking them nice little questions when we think we have mastermind of attacks on the US?

We want to stop them from murdering us first.


By seeing that the rights of human beings only apply so far as to protect American business and political interests.

We haven't lost any rights, we've lost freedoms caused by the terrorists.

By being embarrassed to be American because of the Hypocrisy with which this country is governed. And by seeing so many Americans blindly support things like torture

There is no blindly about any of my support. And a lot of others too. We faked some guys to think they were being drowned. WITH 2 DOCTORS PRESENT AT ALL TIMES.

Y'all call that torturing someone who orchestrated the murder of thousands of Americans and other innocent citizens on 9 11???


and the abandonment of their own freedoms to support a policy that is dangerous to the world and has made many more people angry with us. And by knowing that it didn't have to be that way.

[DennyMcLain]

By the erosion of the so-called values of being an American. The ideal of being American. The staunch belief that we are better than those who violate the rights of human beings. By seeing that the rights of human beings only apply so far as to protect American business and political interests. By being embarrassed to be American because of the Hypocrisy with which this country is governed. And by seeing so many Americans blindly support things like torture and the abandonment of their own freedoms to support a policy that is dangerous to the world and has made many more people angry with us. And by knowing that it didn't have to be that way.

Pardon me, but that's so fucking self-righteous, my computer almost seized.

We've ALWAYS been that way. Colonizing America. Slaves. Massacres of entire indian tribes (the REAL Americans, BTW), concocting the Spanish-American War, remaining stubbornly neutral through two world wars until the situations suited us (that includes Pearl Harbor.. where our newer Aircraft Carriers were all conveniently out of harbor when the bombing occurred). Korea. Vietnam. The Philippines. Nicaragua. Panama. The Gulf Wars, etc. etc.

I, for one, am not embarrassed to be an American. We've been soft for far too long, afraid what other might think. Well, when you're the top dog for as long as we've been, others are going to despise you no matter WHAT you do.

Violating human rights, huh? Well, how about all of the fucking human relief efforts we put forth, both as Americans and as a government, each year? How about trying to help in Somalia? How about regularly cleaning up the U.N.'s messes due to their unimaginable ineptness? How about global disaster support? I truly don't give a flying fucking shit about some dirtbag accused terrorists. They had weapons. They had those weapons pointed at our men. They were captured. They were interrogated (and perhaps tortured). The Geneva Convention? How about when the fucking assholes tear off the head of a hostage and proudly send the videotape to gawddamn Al Jazeera??? Where's the Geneva Convention then???? Oh, yes.... the Geneva Convention was designed to apply to waring NATIONS.

Can you please point to the area on the map where the country of Hamas is?

How about the nation of Al Queda?

This goes back to the same motherfucking point I made earlier. The school bully doesn't follow the so-called "rules". He feels untouchable, beyond the rules, and no straight talk is going to change him. He MUST be completely humiliated to understand he is NOT the dominant King in that school, and it must be carried out sans caring or mercy. It's Basic Human 101... in fact, it's Basic Animal Kingdom 101.

When you think of it, this is exactly the sort of thinking terrorists utilize, but rather than humiliation, it's fear.

[geerussell]

Violating human rights, huh? Well, how about all of the fucking human relief efforts we put forth, both as Americans and as a government, each year? How about trying to help in Somalia? How about regularly cleaning up the U.N.'s messes due to their unimaginable ineptness? How about global disaster support?

So it's like carbon cap and trade... for our values. If we feed some people in one place, we can torture some in another and it's all good because we come out ahead on the balance sheet.

This goes back to the same motherfucking point I made earlier. The school bully doesn't follow the so-called "rules". He feels untouchable, beyond the rules, and no straight talk is going to change him. He MUST be completely humiliated to understand he is NOT the dominant King in that school, and it must be carried out sans caring or mercy. It's Basic Human 101... in fact, it's Basic Animal Kingdom 101.

Some of us want to live in a country that aspires to more than basic animal kingdom 101. Set your sights higher.

[Zip Goshboots]

Sorry, Denny, but you fail. Because you can't point to any place on the map and call that a country. If you believe in some sort of god--well, he crated a big rock, and it didn't have no fences or flags on it. And what fucking country is fucking Israel" Some made up piece of shit that is based on some made up and pirated mythology--and there we are partnering ourselves with it and there is nothing to prove it ever has or deserved to exist--FAIL EPIC FAIL.

There is no such thing as "terrorists"--there is no such things as countries or nationalities or PHONY FUCKING ASS RELIGIONS that all this shit is based on--it's all a phony funking man made lie--so Hamas has as much a right to any piece of land as America or fukcing Israel or Canada--because America and Canada are a phony fucking man made myth in the first place.

[Comrade]

Sorry, Denny, but you fail. Because you can't point to any place on the map and call that a country. If you believe in some sort of god--well, he crated a big rock, and it didn't have no fences or flags on it. And what fucking country is fucking Israel" Some made up piece of shit that is based on some made up and pirated mythology--and there we are partnering ourselves with it and there is nothing to prove it ever has or deserved to exist--FAIL EPIC FAIL.

There is no such thing as "terrorists"--there is no such things as countries or nationalities or PHONY FUCKING ASS RELIGIONS that all this shit is based on--it's all a phony funking man made lie--so Hamas has as much a right to any piece of land as America or fukcing Israel or Canada--because America and Canada are a phony fucking man made myth in the first place.

You're so smart and literate, Zip. You have it figured all out, don't you?

[Hermy]

You were harmed how?


Russell with a great post.

[Uncle Mxy]

Where's the Geneva Convention then???? Oh, yes.... the Geneva Convention was designed to apply to waring NATIONS.

Can you please point to the area on the map where the country of Hamas is?

How about the nation of Al Queda?

The original Geneva Convention arose from a bloody battle with non-nations like Sardinia/Piedmont/Savoy as principle actors, and was signed by entities such as Saxony that weren't considered formal countries.

I think Ron Paul has the right idea on using the Constitutional mechanism of letters of marque and reprisal to deal with terrorist groups, much as they were used to deal with pirates through the War of 1812. We have a legal framework with historical precedent for pursuing extra-national thugs... let's use it.