OST: 2008/09 NBA Playoffs - Round 2, (2) Nuggets vs. (6) Mavs (Nuggs win 4-1)

[WTFchris]

If they don't call them with a simple grab, coaches will start to have their players foul harder and harder. The pussy league doesn't want that.

I disagree. Most of the time players, and fans for that matter, want the officials to swallow the whistle in the closing minutes and let the players decide the game. unless it's a clear foul, you don't want ticky tack shit causing the game to go one way or the other.

To say they should call minor contact down the stretch is stupid. Suppose Rick told him to play D straight up and not foul. Suppose they did blow the whistle and Melo got a shot up (and went to the line for 3 shots). Everyone would be bitching because the refs "bailed the shooter out" with that call.

To me it's all on the player. If you're going to intentionally foul someone you better tell the ref or make it look like a foul. Going for a steal and hitting the guys wrist is not an intentional foul. He's just changing his tune afterward because he screwed up.

[Tahoe]

I disagree. Most of the time players, and fans for that matter, want the officials to swallow the whistle in the closing minutes and let the players decide the game. unless it's a clear foul, you don't want ticky tack shit causing the game to go one way or the other.

To say they should call minor contact down the stretch is stupid. Suppose Rick told him to play D straight up and not foul. Suppose they did blow the whistle and Melo got a shot up (and went to the line for 3 shots). Everyone would be bitching because the refs "bailed the shooter out" with that call.

To me it's all on the player. If you're going to intentionally foul someone you better tell the ref or make it look like a foul. Going for a steal and hitting the guys wrist is not an intentional foul. He's just changing his tune afterward because he screwed up.

I think you are missing my point. I was talking about situations where they want an intentional foul.

[Tahoe]

I'm not saying call ticky tack fouls at all. I'm saying in an instance where everyone in the arena knows there is going to be an intentional foul, if the refs don't call on a simple grab for an intentional, the coaches will start to tell the players to step up the foul. The league doesn't want that.

[WTFchris]

I think you are missing my point. I was talking about situations where they want an intentional foul.

How do you know they want to foul? I understand your point if the team is trailing and has to foul. Dallas was leading by 2 points. How is the ref supposed to know they want to foul? Certainly that is the most common practice (to use the foul to give), but I'm sure not all coaches do it. Some may not think it's worth the risk of getting a shooting foul. How do you know if the coach wants to foul with 5 seconds left, but not with 2 seconds left?

The point is, the ref shouldn't have to get into the head of the coach/player. He should simply call what he sees, and sometimes in late game situations the refs try not to take over a game. Unless the coach or player told him they were going to foul, I don't see how you can view that as an intentional foul. Yes, he got him on the arm. But I have not heard one person that said that looked like the intent to foul.

[Tahoe]

How do you know they want to foul? I understand your point if the team is trailing and has to foul. Dallas was leading by 2 points. How is the ref supposed to know they want to foul? Certainly that is the most common practice (to use the foul to give), but I'm sure not all coaches do it. Some may not think it's worth the risk of getting a shooting foul. How do you know if the coach wants to foul with 5 seconds left, but not with 2 seconds left?

The point is, the ref shouldn't have to get into the head of the coach/player. He should simply call what he sees, and sometimes in late game situations the refs try not to take over a game. Unless the coach or player told him they were going to foul, I don't see how you can view that as an intentional foul. Yes, he got him on the arm. But I have not heard one person that said that looked like the intent to foul.

The coach or player should tell the ref.

[WTFchris]

Agreed. Did they is the question. I highly doubt it because you can bet they'd be telling everyone that would listen now that they said they were going to foul.

[Tahoe]

On this one, I don't think so, I was talking about more general terms of intentional fouling and that the league won't want really hard fouls to make sure the refs call it.

The only thing I remember Carlisle saying is something like "61 fouls called in that game and when we wanted a foul, we could'nt get it"

Thats way, WAY short of saying "I told the ref we were going to foul there"

[Glenn]

I heard someone talking about this yesterday (either on ESPN or ESPN Radio) and whomever it was (escapes me) tied it into Chuck Daly.

He said that he could remember many times when Daly would pull all of the refs together during a timeout and look at each of them in the eyes and say, "Let me be clear, once the ball is inbounded, we are going to foul before the shot".

Did Prick speak up, or did he just snort and cough like he typically does?

[Fool]

It's a no brainer that it's the coaches responsibility.

[WTFchris]

Most of the intentional fouls are two handed (to make sure the ref sees it no matter the angle). They aren't hard, but players usually have a hand on the back too.