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Thread: Aks Uncle Mxy a Political Question (Enlightenment Inside)

  1. #21
    NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH Uncle Mxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -NoQuarter-
    Was David Stern behind the September 11th attacks?
    No, it appears he was northeast relative to the September 11th attacks in NY:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?num=20&h...to&iwloc=A&f=d

    Seriously, I don't think of 9/11 itself as simply "political", though certainly our reaction to it has many political components. And somehow, I doubt that David Stern wanted the news of Michael Jordan's comeback to be overshadowed by terrorist nutjobs.

  2. #22
    Mxy...

    What current politician could best shoulder the burden of carrying a "legitimate" third party if the situation presented itself?

    (I do not consider Ralph Nader an answer)

  3. #23
    The Gay Blade Zip Goshboots's Avatar
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    Moxy:
    If I walk around with penis hanging out, will that ensure that in the next presidential primary my Uncle Wilhelm will turn gay?
    Winning breeds confidence. Losing breeds reality.

  4. #24
    NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH Uncle Mxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyMcLain
    Mxy...

    What current politician could best shoulder the burden of carrying a "legitimate" third party if the situation presented itself?

    (I do not consider Ralph Nader an answer)
    My theory is that the only way a "valid" third party comes into being is if it starts near the bottom, takes over some key area's political machinery, and spreads from there. The failure of Perot and the Reform Party convinced me of that, as have the evolution of Canadian national/provincial third parties such as the NDP and Bloc/Parti Quebecois. Ralph Nader's approach is everything that's wrong with third party building, and why the Green Party rejected him. One person being strongly identified with a party shooting for the moon is not the way to sustain.

    Certainly, folks like Obama and Ron Paul have demonstrated great grassroots wherewithal, but they are homed in big states where I doubt they could wrest the machinery. I think the most fertile ground for such a thing are clusters of small states in New England, where you can accumulate a lot of power in a relatively concentrated area. And so, it's perhaps not surprising that the two highest elected politicians in the land that aren't Dems or Reps are Senators Joe Lieberman and Bernie Sanders from New England.

    Joe rushed into the Connecticut for Lieberman party because he couldn't win the Democratic primary, and took advantage of his name and donations from when he was still a Democrat to maintain his Senate seat. Pissed-off people took advantage of Lieberman's lack of planning to co-opt his Connecticut for Lieberman party just to fuck with him. So, that's NOT a good example.

    Bernie Sanders, by contrast, always was an independent socialist sort and rose through the ranks of government as such. Like Lieberman, he wasn't much interested in the mechanics of setting up a third party. Like Lieberman, a third party, the Progressive Party of Vermont, was formed around him by others. UNLIKE Lieberman, it was formed around him not to fuck with him, but to spread his ideals. Vermont Progressives now run Vermont's largest city, and it's only Republicans vs. Progressives in their 2008 governor's race at this point (Democrats are too chickenshit to run a candidate who will likely lose owing to the Progressives). If Bernie Sanders wanted to spend time party building, I bet they'd lock up Vermont and seep into places like Maine and Connecticut.

    So yeah, Bernie Sanders could shoulder the burden, with the caveat that any real third party shouldn't be all about one person.

    Hope that makes sense.
    Last edited by Uncle Mxy; 03-22-2008 at 11:29 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zip Goshboots
    Moxy:
    If I walk around with penis hanging out, will that ensure that in the next presidential primary my Uncle Wilhelm will turn gay?
    Only if someone tattoos an elephant on your penis.

  6. #26
    It makes perfect sense. Basically, gain then maintain control of your backyard, and build power. Then, hop the fence to your neighbor's yard (minimal distance traveled) and control THAT yard. Keep hopping fences on your side of the street until you've gained enough sustainable power to venture across the street and go for those yards.

    Once you've controlled the "block" (say, New England), make a push for a large neighboring state (New York), probably upstate, and work your way down to the heavier populated areas. Even if you fail in New York, you never ventured too far from your neighborhood, so you can continue applying pressure until the next election.

  7. #27
    The Healer Black Dynamite's Avatar
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    damn mxy is kicking ass on this thread like a lil' buddha.
    ^
    Stalked by a Mod who gives 1 percent credence.

  8. #28
    CLEVELAND'S FINEST Zekyl's Avatar
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    Mxy, how long do you think it will be before a viable third party emerges? Not necessarily in the presidential election, but just a general third party that may gain some states, some senate or house seats, and have a legitimate chance to push for the presidency at some point. None of the current "big" third parties seem to have that capability.
    _

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekyl
    Mxy, how long do you think it will be before a viable third party emerges? Not necessarily in the presidential election, but just a general third party that may gain some states, some senate or house seats, and have a legitimate chance to push for the presidency at some point. None of the current "big" third parties seem to have that capability.
    As long as the Presidency and Vice Presidency are voted on a winner-take-all ticket, I don't think it's possible for a third-party to sustain the presidency. I think we'd need a parliamentary system, or something that's otherwise less polarizing, in order to sustain a real third-party presidency. One thing that both parties can agree on is that a third party should not exist. If a Ralph Nader became President, especially with <50% of the vote, he'd find that out like Jesse Ventura ultimately did in Minnesota once the star allure faded.

    Honestly, if there were going to be a third party, I think it'd be a geographic alignment as I described above. Given that TV and the Internet renders us more culturally homogeneous, and no one has seen fit to really "hack" New England as I described before, I think that the biggest thing that might forge a third party would be some geographically-tied resource constraint. The most pressing 21st century geographic need that *might* lead to a third party would be fresh water and the Great Lakes, where both Dems and Reps can be shitty at times. It was a geographically-tied resource constraint, the South and slavery, that paved the way for the two party system.

  10. #30
    Big Swami's Avatar
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    Everyone's like "oh we don't like what China's government is up to but we can't turn the Olympics into a protest moment." Why exactly is that? What the hell is so wrong with actually telling China that they suck?

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