DSC's MSU Football Thread

[detroitsportscity]

The tough thing is you're losing Saint Dic, Caulcrick, Thomas, Davis, Adams and Warrick and replacing them with these guys. It would be one thing if you were replacing marginal talent with marginal talent, but you're not.

I disagree - Adams and Warrick were average B10 players at best. Add in St. Dic(and Baldwin who you forgot) - We have Trevor Anderson who was All Conference in the Big East and would likely have started this year. Brandon Long should be a good starter next year too, but that isn't MD's recruit - we have Ish Johnson and Michael Jordan who MD has brought in. I am really comfortable at that position. Caulcrick should be well replaced by Leggett, and Ingram looks like a full time kid if we can sign him(a mix of both Ringer and Caulcrick). Devin Thomas - Fred Smith and BJ Cunningham.

MD has been pretty good at getting replacements. TE is a question mark for next year though.

My worry lies less in replacements, but more with improvement - we seem to be trying to fill in spots rather than swapping a Diego Oquendo spot for a Devin Thomas type kid.

[Jethro34]

Well, that attitude is what UM hoops fans are trying to buy into, so I understand the logic. There SHOULD be enough talent in this region to make it work.

However, in order to do that they would need to get the MAJORITY of the regional players not going to UM.
So that means in a group of guys like Jonas Gray, Deon'tae Pannell, Mark Ingram, Sam Gaymon, Jonathon Dandridge, Sean Hooey, Corey Johnson, etc - they need to be getting most of those guys. He has 8 top 25 guys from the state. That needs to be 10-15, especially since UM generally only targets 10. MD also needs to take advantage of his old recruiting area and pick up more Ohio recruits. Finally, any coach that wants to be successful in recruiting needs to build a base to bring in a handful of Florida, Texas, and/or California kids each year.
Not recruiting talented guys because of existing players are excuses that will kill your efforts.

[detroitsportscity]

See, his "we're not signing a ___" attitude will kill him. Look at the top teams in football and they sign studs each year at every position. Seriously, why would Sanchez, Booty and Mustain all want to go to USC? Because they know that after Palmer comes Leinart, followed by Booty and so on. They'll try to pump out Heisman candidates at skill positions every year if they can.
How can MD feel content at ANY position unless he has 3 true freshman studs lined up in depth there. And he doesn't have that anywhere.

Fully agree.

Don 't forget about Corp and others at USC either. I don't see how MD can pass on a Rivals250 QB like Gray, even if there were 'concerns' about his grades. If he qualifies, you have a STUD. Even if Foles or Cousins are clearly better overall, you can use Gray in a Tebow of last year role. A RB who can pass on occasion.

I'm contacting every kid in the Rivals250(at least those who I think deserve it, but that should be almost all of them) and checking and double checking if they have interest in MSU. At least this should increase the amount of kids you send to the NFL, which means you are getting more Pub which will help recruiting.

I think part of the reason that MD is doing this is in order to get rid of the discontent and doubt that has plagued MSU in the past. But sorry, his job is to win FB games, not make every kid happy or to be moral guidance(not recruiting other commits).

[detroitsportscity]

Well, that attitude is what UM hoops fans are trying to buy into, so I understand the logic. There SHOULD be enough talent in this region to make it work.

However, in order to do that they would need to get the MAJORITY of the regional players not going to UM.
So that means in a group of guys like Jonas Gray, Deon'tae Pannell, Mark Ingram, Sam Gaymon, Jonathon Dandridge, Sean Hooey, Corey Johnson, etc - they need to be getting most of those guys. He has 8 top 25 guys from the state. That needs to be 10-15, especially since UM generally only targets 10. MD also needs to take advantage of his old recruiting area and pick up more Ohio recruits. Finally, any coach that wants to be successful in recruiting needs to build a base to bring in a handful of Florida, Texas, and/or California kids each year.
Not recruiting talented guys because of existing players are excuses that will kill your efforts.

I think MD's plan for each year is something like:
10 Michigan
5 Ohio
2 Illinois
2 Pennsylvania
2 Texas
2 'Other south'
2 JuCo/Prep/whatever

I don't think MD has been overlooking Texas or Ohio, Illinois has been kicking our ass in Ohio, and we have been working hard in Texas(Darks wanted to commit, but MD wouldn't let him (WTF), Smith, Haynes, quite a few other kids had some interest). So that hasn't helped.

[Jethro34]

Well, here's the deal. Every recruiting class eventually catches up with you. True freshmen aren't often expected to see much time, so generally you have other replacements in place. But right now you're replacing John L Smith players with John L Smith players. His recruiting efforts were ok.
But you can't ignore the fact that recruiting classes are getting progressively worse. It shows as those classes become upperclassmen.
2004 class was 13th in the country.
2005 = 40th
2006 = 43rd
2007 = 51st
2008 = 55th so far
Do you see a trend going in the wrong direction?
Unless MD is a coaching genius and the 54 teams ahead of him are run by fools, it's going to be difficult to "coach them up" to consistently bowl-eligible, let alone more than that.

Bottom line: if MD doesn't start recruiting better his own classes will catch up with him, his record will drop, and he'll be fired with the cupboard completely bare.

[detroitsportscity]

I wonder if there may be an attitude at MSU that they will build with the not so well known players by coaching them up and getting them to stay four or five years. I also wonder how many true Five stars UM even tries hard to get.

I think that is what MD is working with, but Zook has proven that talent is more important than coaching ability.

[detroitsportscity]

Well, here's the deal. Every recruiting class eventually catches up with you. True freshmen aren't often expected to see much time, so generally you have other replacements in place. But right now you're replacing John L Smith players with John L Smith players. His recruiting efforts were ok.
But you can't ignore the fact that recruiting classes are getting progressively worse. It shows as those classes become upperclassmen.
2004 class was 13th in the country.
2005 = 40th
2006 = 43rd
2007 = 51st
2008 = 55th so far
Do you see a trend going in the wrong direction?
Unless MD is a coaching genius and the 54 teams ahead of him are run by fools, it's going to be difficult to "coach them up" to consistently bowl-eligible, let alone more than that.

Bottom line: if MD doesn't start recruiting better his own classes will catch up with him, his record will drop, and he'll be fired with the cupboard completely bare.

MD's freshman class last year outperformed the classes before that. And the 2004 class had no resemblance to the original 13th in the nation class - about 70% of that class left quickly.

We are also signing quite a few kids still, so I expect to end up in the lower 40's on scout and 30's on Rivals. Which isn't a downward spiral.

To remind you - the kids who left include was Thomas, Caulcrick, Freeman-Davis, Masters, Clifford, Shane, Adams, St. Dic, Baldwin, Thornhill, Warrick, Key, Nwagbou, Tabatchnik, Gventai, and Love.

That is 2 walk-ons(Tab and Key)
A host of Juco's(Nwagbou, Thomas, Warrick, St. Dic, Baldwin, Shane)
And a few 4 year kids - Adams, Thornhill, Gventai, Clifford, Masters, Caulcrick, and Love.

We only had 5 of the 2003 class left, and not too much of the 2004 class. So, MD only needs that mid-40's to 'maintain', and he wants us to believe that he can find kids better than JLS. So, theoretically, we should improve from 7-6, which would allow us to recruit better, and so on.

It just doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle room.

MD's recruit evaluation has impressed me - Rucker, Wilson, and Jones all clearly overperformed relative to ranking at this point. And many of the 'sleepers' he has went after ended up with top end interest(DJ Grant - no name 2 star when he got his MSU offer this fall, ended up with Oklahoma, Texas, and many others and is a Rivals250 kid).

I'm hopeful about MD, however I do have some problems with how he seems to be operating.

[Zip Goshboots]

I can't see MD getting fired unless he completely tanks. I've got to believe he has been guaranteed a spot in East Lansing for as long as is reasonable. MSU and their fans have got to be sick of the revolving door.
Now if he starts flailing away, then maybe.
I don't see Dantonio backing down on his standards, though, just to get a few more wins. I think in the long run, if he continues going 8-4 or 7-5 and getting to bowl games, he's got a job. Reasonable expectations.

[Jethro34]

By the way, nice job keeping this thread alive so that it doesn't become "one of the shortest ever".

Hopefully you see my comments as constructive and not as basking in the light of a struggling program.

[Jethro34]

You think MD's job would survive back-to-back seasons without 6 wins? Who knows if that will happen, but I'm guessing it wouldn't sit well for his bosses.

Frankly, I think MD is a good coach and I was one of the first to congratulate MSU for their hire. But if he struggles and guys like Brian Kelly are out there looking for their next step up, it would be hard to sit in the AD's office and not want to make a switch.