Republican Presidential thread

[Tahoe]

I'm not sure why Paul didn't run as an Indi. IMO, he would have done much better. Unless running as an Indi it would have been a pain as he is a Rep.

[Uncle Mxy]

I don't get why Ron Paul is a Republican. The era of the fiscally conservative, limited government Republican died 25 years ago, on his watch, with his man at the helm.

[Big Swami]

Here we have to make a differentiation between conservative movements. There is no single conservative movement. There are actually four conservative movements that are under one tent.

Classical conservatism ended with Barry Goldwater desperately waving its flag. It meant small government, fiscal conservatism, low taxes, live-and-let-live type of ideology. It's been dead since the 60s, and even then it was just a longing for a bygone 1920s. Everyone had to face the fact that big government saved the country during the Depression. More importantly, a small government is a weak government and conservatives hate weakness.

Neoconservatism is next. It starts with Irv Kristol in the 50s and takes hold in the young appointees in the Nixon administration. It doesn't mind big government, as long as that government acts strongly and decisively in what it sees as its self-interest. It sees the world in black-and-white: each country has friends and enemies, and you have to be either one or the other. Friends will be allies; enemies will be destroyed. Neoconservatism is effectively empire-building, because the alliances a strong nation seeks with weaker nations are guided only by the self-interest of the stronger nation.

Paleoconservatism came later. It comes mainly out of the 1970s and 1980s, with people like Pat Buchanan. Here's where conservatives take a social stand. It's strongly law-and-order, anti-socialist, pro-tradition, anti-change. Basically it's the idea that whatever was good enough for Grandpa is good enough for us, and this is the movement of the "culture warriors" like Bill O'Reilly. Reagan ran for office on a strongly paleoconservative platform, and it manifested itself in his reaction to the AIDS crisis in 1983 - which is to say, he didn't have one. Work hard! Go to church! Have a passel of kids! Don't be gay! Be a good American! They don't seem to have much of a care for the actual political ideology of classical conservatism, but they sure do like the look and sound of it. It's a very emotionally overwrought bunch of guys. Which is how the next guys jumped on board...

Religious conservatives don't really have much in common with the others. Paleoconservatism appeals to them, but to a religious conservative, the best guiding force to a country isn't tradition at all but rather a tenacious faith in Christianity. They will do anything to further their agenda. They have many ideas that are not actually conservative at all, and many ideas that betray a lack of any confidence or interest in political institutions. But they use their membership in the conservative big tent to peddle their favorite religious movement.

...

I think the whole "limited government" thing died in the Nixon years. There was no turning back after that point. Reagan ran on the platform of being a classical conservative, but there's no way he could actually govern that way once he took office in 1981. The executive bureaucracy was already enormous, and enormously helpful to the Executive who wants to protect himself. Whether he knew that beforehand, I don't know. But people like Ron Paul and the (big L) Libertarian Party are just selling you a dream that can't be achieved anymore. Why would any government reduce its size, when it's exactly that size that keeps it insulated from prying eyes?

[Hermy]

Paul, I presume, will run as the libertarian cadidate for pres. once this bid is over. He's got quite a bit of money raised now. Only reason he wouldn't is if he wishes not to detract from the Lick's choice of candidate and steal votes ala Nader.

And we Libertarians are the fastest growing political organization. We don't dream of a return to frontier living, just slowing this beast down.

[Big Swami]

I'd be interested to see the reaction of Republicans to a Ron Paul Libertarian or Indie bid. Probably something like the reaction of Dems to Lieberman. ...except with more repressed homosexuality.

[Uncle Mxy]

I'd be interested to see the reaction of Republicans to a Ron Paul Libertarian or Indie bid. Probably something like the reaction of Dems to Lieberman. ...except with more repressed homosexuality.

I think it'd be more like Nader in 2000...except with smaller penises.

[Tahoe]

I like the way the Republican race is playing out. I hate it when Iowa, NH and SC pick the nominee.

[Uncle Mxy]

Anything toward a brokered convention can't be good in the short term for Republicans. If Rudy wins Florida and Fred Thompson picks up steam, things could turn radioactive fast.

[Glenn]

Odds On: Who will be named as the Republican Candidate for the 2008 US Presidential Election?

Rudy Giuliani
3/1

John McCain
8/5

Fred Thompson
8/1

Newt Gingrich
20/1

Mitt Romney
4/1

Mike Huckabee
9/5

Tommy Thompson
20/1

Sam Brownback
40/1

Chuck Hagel
30/1

Duncan Hunter
35/1

Tom Tancredo
50/1

Jim Gilmore
60/1

Ron Paul
5/2

Field
40

Paul at 5/2? This is fucked up.

[Uncle Mxy]

Fred Thompson just dropped out. Huckabee would appear to be the biggest benefactor as a Southerner.