The best RB in the Big Ten is...

[b-diddy]

i did know ringer was JR.

when i said they have him ranked as the top, i ment espn INSIDER, not scouts (necessarilly, maybe scouts also).

i think great blocker at the pro level, is what they ment.

the main reason i posted it was the " Hart needs another healthy and productive season as a senior to solidify a spot in the top-two rounds."

[xanadu]

My point lies more along the lines of attempting to determine the best rb based on 2 games. Ringer has 4 runs of 45+ (250 yards in total) in those games. His numbers are gaudy, but what is up with the limted carries? Do you really think the huge plays will continue for the rest of the season? I want to see ringer keep making big plays after defenses have seen and adjusted to the new dantonio offense. Teams know what hart brings and still can't stop him (even with lloyd's extra-predictable playcalling with a true freshman qb). Let's see what ringer does over the long haul. Also, if we are talking skill sets: ringer is faster, but hart is a much better runner in traffic and in "moving a pile". Of course, i've only seen (or remember seeing) ringer in the wisc game, last year's ND game, and the Mich game from 2 years ago, so I don't know a whole lot about him.

edit: besides your (supposedly impartial) beliefs about hart being overhyped, what is an impartial way to determine if hart is indeed a better back than ringer. Hart has already been 1st team big 10 twice and a Heisman finalist. Also, U-M has not been exactly loaded on offense this year. Kraus and Long are outstanding players, but the right side of the line has been mediocre at best and is mostly fresh-soph from center to right tackle. Plus, he's played with a true frosh qb or an injured henne for most of the season. He has run center-left all year vs. an 8-man front most of the year and has 100 yards more than the next highest rusher. Barring injury, he'll most likely be a 1st day nfl pick next year. All the evidence you have that Ringer is better is that he had a better performance vs. NW and that he is a better pass catcher.

Also if ringer is the undisputed best back on his team, how come he only has 10 more carries than caulcrick?

I can't believe you people are really this delusional. Ringer has had a great couple of games, but comparisons to hart are premature at best, even if you hate the guy.

[Zip Goshboots]

I wonder if Tre is keeping track of all the time Hart is missing these days...

I love Hart, but he definitely lacks breakaway speed. That said, he might have a better Oline than Rinegr runs behind, but he also gets it done when teams KNOW he is going to get it. Wouldn't it be nice to see Hart play in an offense that was less predictable than UM. Opposing defenses know when Hart is going to get it, they know where he is going to get it, and they know exactly where he is going to go with it.
If the only complain is that he talks too much, well then, he's right up there with 99.9999% of the people in the world.
Hart and Ringer are different backs, with different styles. Hart is also a great blocker like Ringer, BTW.
Hart will likely go over 5,000 for his career, Hip, and you know you didn't think much of him coming out of high school. I can't see where he is "overhyped".

Without him, UM is 0-6 this year (yes, they might have even lost to Notre Dame).

[MoTown]

I don't want to jump in this quarrell, but the fumble stat needs to be brought up as well.

I don't know how many times Ringer has fumbled, but I can guarantee it's less that Hart. That stat is incredible to me.

[HipDigIt]

I wonder if Tre is keeping track of all the time Hart is missing these days...

I love Hart, but he definitely lacks breakaway speed. That said, he might have a better Oline than Rinegr runs behind, but he also gets it done when teams KNOW he is going to get it. Wouldn't it be nice to see Hart play in an offense that was less predictable than UM. Opposing defenses know when Hart is going to get it, they know where he is going to get it, and they know exactly where he is going to go with it.
If the only complain is that he talks too much, well then, he's right up there with 99.9999% of the people in the world.
Hart and Ringer are different backs, with different styles. Hart is also a great blocker like Ringer, BTW.
Hart will likely go over 5,000 for his career, Hip, and you know you didn't think much of him coming out of high school. I can't see where he is "overhyped".

Without him, UM is 0-6 this year (yes, they might have even lost to Notre Dame).

[HipDigIt]

Zip I hadn't seen any film of Hart in high school but I remember makiing comment on the board that echoed what I'd read on Rivals. "Questionable size, small school, can he take a Big 10 lickin'?" I'd say he's answered those questions in a grand manner.

All I said was that in my opinion, in my critique of the Boffo MSU game that to me Ringer is the best back in the league. I forgot that this is mainly a U-M site and I touched off all this shit. I showed stats for "stat boy" types. I listed skill set attributes. I'm a fucking Ringer guy. So kill me. That said it just might be that Rashad Mendenhall (Illinois) is better than both of them. Hill for Cheezitz is certainly in the conversation.

I rest my case on Ringer with... for my feature guy I want him to be able to go 80....Hart can't do that. Hell last year that hair bag Peku caught him from behind after about 30-40 yards. That is the difference.

Anybody that doesn't think that Hart is not a great back just says that because of his mouth and is not being objective. The guy is tougher than whale shit but Ringer is my guy. I can only hope you saw his 80 yarder to the house. Speed, strength and balance topped with 5th gear. That's what Im talking about.

[HipDigIt]

"Of course, i've only seen (or remember seeing) ringer in the wisc game, last year's ND game, and the Mich game from 2 years ago, so I don't know a whole lot about him." -Xanadu-

Well I can see why you think I'm delusional then???? Look at the statistics posted earlier. You fucking people are a cult!! Mike Hart's really, really good man. Glug, glug, glu....Jesus Fucking Christ...........you win. Hope you can get a bus to upstate N.Y. to catch him in the flag league next year.

[Zip Goshboots]

I have no problem with you being a Ringer guy. It probably boils down to which team you favor.
Those of us on the Michigan side have a deeper appreciation for Hart than stats, BTW.
If he ends up playing in the Albanian Flag Football League, it wouldn;t bother me one bit, and that takes nothing away from what has been a monumental collegiate career. He even had an injury shortened sophomore year that has taken yards out of his all time stats.
He's just damn good talent-wise, and his heart makes him great.

[HipDigIt]

"Those of us on the Michigan side have a deeper appreciation for Hart than stats, BTW."

I get that. I respect that. Again I listed skill set AND stats. I don't care if he plays for Iowa. I was trying to be objective. Note I said Mendenhall who plays for Illinois might be better than both.

[Artermis]

You list one years worth of stats.

You do not even bother with the fact that Ringer shares a ton of his carries.

This is great.

Ringer first 2 years since you already posted this years. 19 for 134 and a 7.3 avg and then 14 for 96 and a 6.9 avg.

Hart in his 1st 2 years was 26 for 237 and a 9.1 avg and then we have 16 for 154 and a 9.6 avg.

Yeah Ringer just blows Mike Hart out of the fucking water according to those numbers.

Now lets look at Hart vs the Big 3 of PSU, MSU and OSU and Ringer vs UM, PSU and OSU.

Ringer had games in 2005 of 16 for 76 in 2005 for 4.8 ypc
Vs Um he was 12 for 31 for 3.1 ypc
Vs PSU 3 for 6 for 2 ypc

In 2006 well he didnt play UM or OSU. That damn injury bugged. Man I wish Mike Hart was as durable as Ringer.
Oh vs PSU he had 3 carries for -0.2 ypc.

BTW Ringer didnt have to play Wisky or Iowa in 2005 or 2006.

Lets look at M. Hart from 2004. He didnt play PSU in 2004 so I will switch that for Iowa that season.
Vs Iowa 26 for 99 and a 3.8 ypc
Vs MSU 33 for 224 and a 6.8 ypc
Vs OSU 18 for 61 and a 3.4 ypc

On to 2005
Vs. MSU 36 for 218 and a 6.1 ypc
Vs. PSU 23 for 108 fand a 4.7 ypc
Vs. OSU 9 for 15 and a 1.7 ypc

2006
Vs. MSU 22 for 122 and a 5.5 ypc (finally shut him down)
Vs. PSU 26 for 112 and a 4.3 ypc
Vs. OSU 23 for 142 and a 6.2 ypc

I can add Notre Dame to the list, which can only help Ringer.

I would also add catches but that doesnt really show much other than Ringer was not thrown to that much.

But thanks for playing the Ringer is better than Mike Hart game. As you can see against each other and the other 2 or 3 "great" defenses in the league year in and year out...Ringer does shit and Hart is above average.

Keep thinking your part time running back is better than Hart. I know you guys need to hold onto something.