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To where we were before February 19th, 2004? That is, pre-Sheed. Ever since Dumars stole him for role players, we've been true championship contenders (until yesterday), and Piston fans have been living the spoils that come with that.
Are we worse off? The same? Better? Just curious to see what everyone's thoughts are on this?
Slightly worse off. But we'll be fine. Initially, I was pissed at Ben for being such a greedy little ______. But now I'm glad he's gone. He'll get what's coming to him in Chicago. The league is changing and he won't be the most important guy in Chicago. His ego is just going to take several more hits before his career is done.
I think this year will be slightly worse than last year, and we may bow out in the second round, but we'll manage to improve the following season through the draft, free agency, and/or trades.
Comparing this year to the pre-Sheed 2004, I would've have to say we were in better shape in 2004 than we are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by shags
We would not have been contenders for atleast year or two but with Darko and Okur as our frontcourt, I would suspect our future might have been looking a lot more brighter than what it is now.
This shit just does not make any sense. When Brown left, the idea was our young players would finally be played, especially Darko. Well all the winning prompted Flips rotation to become less and less and it seemed as if every game was a playoff one. Basicallly, our younger players were shunned at the expense of homecourt believing another trip to the Finals was automatic. So basically fuck Delfino, darko, and Maxiel. Our FUTURE.
I always thought it was detroits intention to get rid of Darko to clear space for Ben, and if the idea to win for the next few years was the reasoning, then so be it. They never had the patience to mold him and the whole this guy is dominate in practice shit got old in a hurry. What continues to mind fuck me however, is the fact that if the plan to get rid of Darko was to give us cap space to resign Ben, did the piston brass even consider that it may cost more than the 12 mill they were willing to offer? Did they honestly beleive that his loyalty would make him turn down other offers for more? I mean if they were unwilling to mold our young guys at the expense of winning now, and basically mortagage our future to win and contend now rather than later, then they had to beleive it was possible it may cost them more and that it would be worth it to sign him at what his FA market value could possibly be. This all contingent on the idea to continue to win NOW rather than later. So look at us now: no Darko, no Ben. no molding of young talent, and shit we even signed Sheed to mad cash and basically blew off Okur to contend now, and we know have journeyman Nazr? This shit defies normal logic. And, that well, Ben is deteriorating shit is stupid too. So what we were still a top 3 team with him for the next three years. I mean fuck, it aint like Sheed and Billups arent going to deteriorate. Sheed already is. We were contenders now and regardless would not be in three years any fucking way with guys like Wade, LeBron, Chicago, and D Howard dominating. So, I guess the process starts now rather than later. So why even sign Nazr? Makes zero sense. I hope Dumars knows something we don't.
when we won the championship, we had:
the best coach in the nba
the best starting 5 in the nba
arguably the best bench in the nba
a 5 star blue chip prospect in darko in the nba
the brightest future in the nba.
2 quick years later? lol. the best profit margins in the nba?
I'm talking pre-Sheed though.Quote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
We don't win the championship without him. We'd have lost in the 2nd round to the Nets. So how much worse are we than that?
sheed made us light years better. but i wouldnt count on us losing to the nets in the second round. sheed was pretty damn ineffective in that series. and if you recall, those pre-sheed pistons were some of the grittiest, hungriest players in the league. lots of people, me included, thought we were contenders before we made the deal. that was probably a reach, but we were definitly better than we are now. no doubt about that.
Prior to Sheed we were looking at building a frontline of Darko, Memo and Ben
We got lucky, got Sheed and the rest is history.
Shit changes all the time. You don't put a team together and sit tight for 2 years hoping players will develop. You get players when you can.
This bullshit about Wade, Lebron and Howard being "too good" for anyone else is so fucking funny.
Miami's key players (outside Wade) are as old as dirt and can't go on forever.
Lebron has a decent team around him now, but Big Z, Marshall and Snow are old as dirt too.
Howard? Please! They have a chance to make some noise soon, but they also have to retain Howard, Nelson and Darko. If those 3 eat up all their salary and room under the tax then WTF will Orlando do? Exceed the tax? Doubt it.
Yeah, it's depressing to see us fall from our position of Top 2 in the East. But it ain't the end of the world.
We have 3 promising players (Delfino, Amir, Max), possibly another prospect that could be decent (Acker/Blalock/Samb) and the Magic pick coming soon.
Add them to Sheed, Prince, Rip, Billups, Dice and Nazr and I think we're fine.
Contenders? No - but I don't think winning titles is what we're trying to do
I think the way the East is anybody can win it. Not the Title just the ECF. If we had Nazr instead of Ben during the playoffs this past year we would've still lost to Miami in the Finals. Ben's play didn't do much of anything for us.
I'd prefer to wait till Joe decrees that our roster is set for october before I judge the current roster, but I don't think wer'e nearly as bad as it seems.
which is sadQuote:
Originally Posted by Stealth
which is even sadderQuote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
which is the saddestQuote:
Originally Posted by b-diddy
lol.
yes some people like myself are overreacting to Ben leaving for shit.
We arent doing that bad considering we got a center but what if Dice and Sheed would have done fine at starting...just wasted our MLE.
[QUOTE=Pharaoh]
This bullshit about Wade, Lebron and Howard being "too good" for anyone else is so fucking funny.
Miami's key players (outside Wade) are as old as dirt and can't go on forever.
Lebron has a decent team around him now, but Big Z, Marshall and Snow are old as dirt too.
Howard? Please! They have a chance to make some noise soon, but they also have to retain Howard, Nelson and Darko. If those 3 eat up all their salary and room under the tax then WTF will Orlando do? Exceed the tax? Doubt it.
[/QUOTE/
Guys like Wade/Lebron/Howard come around every 15 years or so. I mean Wade dismantled the Pistons practically by himself and went on to lay an ugly ass whoopin on dallas. So what key players do they need. Oh and I forgot, they play in South Beach I bet it will be real hard to get guys to play out there. Their role players suck and they still kicked the shit out of us.
Same goes for Cleveland. LeBron took us to seven games practically by himself. Cant you see what is going on here? These are superstars that we will speak of in the same breath as Jordan, Zeke, and Magic someday, so yes they will dominate this league and take turns winning championships. You dont think Miami will retool and continue to build around him? With talent like theirs it dont take extraordinary skills, these guys take over. Watch the finals games 3 4 5 and fucking six to see. And Howard? He dominates the post already and carried a sorry team to one of the best finishes in the NBA last year by HIMSELf. Its scary to think what he is capable of when he gets some real talent around him.
...except they all came around within a year of each other.....Quote:
Guys like Wade/Lebron/Howard come around every 15 years or so.
KSTAT you just post to be dick. Go back to school, get your fucking GED, and learn to read. You saying we have seen guys like these in the last 10 plus years? Young guys like Lebron and Wade and what they can do? Other than Kobe? I realize they all came within a year of each other, Before you speak learn to have a point, and quit posting just to trash others and their opinion. Get a life fuckstick.
..and a fine example you set on not trashing others....
I was making a point that you contradicted yourself. You decided to throw a tantrum like a child instead of owning up, which I'm beginning to learn is typical of you.
Oh well. In any case, I'm not going to get into a shouting match with another 15-year old. I've wasted enough of my time with the last one.
I don't know where we are to be honest, but I am not ready to throw in the towel on the team. What I mean by that is the last two years have proven thatexperts don't always know what they are talking about, Dallas lost Nash then Finley and got further than ever, PHX lost Amare and got further than anyone would guessed. Now of course both those teams had great coaching which we likley don't have based on last season. Also Dallas had young guys waiting to replace NAsh and Finley. However in the case of PHX going from Amare to KT is a lot like going from Ben to Nazr, in the sense that the guys they are replacing are irreplaceable so all you are asking the to do is not screw up just be consistent.
There is no reason to believe that as long as Joe can have the cash available to S&T Cato if possible and stay under the lux number Detroit can't contend still. I am not known for my optimism but I refuse to think that the remaining top 5 players on that team won't take Ben's leaving as a insult. I will not under estimate the collect wills of the others, because I want to throw a pitt party because Ben left. Yes the situation is bad I just think it is easy and lame to just quit on the team.
I think if Joe is worth a damn he will prove it. There is no reason that he can't work magic as long as he is given the ability to. Now if Joe is merely a puppet he needs to grow a pair, tell Mr. D in his best Johnny Paycheck voice "take this job and shove it", and expose Davidson for the bad person bad owner he seems to be.
I think for the BAE you can get Rasul Butler or a comparable SF, if you sell the team and system to the player. Let's face it you can tell FA's now we will need you and we will need you big time.
Chris Brousard was on ESPN radio this morning sayig he could see AL Harrington end up here, in a S&T. It's logical to assume that ATL could give us AL for Cato at MLE ( 2 or 3 year deal) with a TE of 1.5 Million with the Magic pick, a future first and a little cash, that would allow us to take back Al for up to 8.125 to start. . As much as that may be a dream scenario and I don't think it is based on basket ball logic. Atl getting back two picks satisfies the Phx JJ deal, they then can use their picks next season to add a another young guy from a deep draft or package it with a bad Contract to get a veteran who wouldn't otherwise goto Atlanta.
No Al IMO. Maybe if they were taking Cato&draft picks and...?
But your right Js, as always:)
A good example is PHx like you mentioned. Amare to Kurt...yikes. Maybe we can turn into something good and be the good ol underdogs.
Um, yeah - Howard/Lebron/Wade come around once every 15 years?
LMMFAO
In 3 years time people are gonna be shooting their loads over OJ Mayo, Greg Oden and Bill Walker (or someone else).
And the media will say:
"Don't worry about competing: If you don't have Oden or Mayo or Walker or Lebron or Wade or Howard or Kobe you can't compete"