OK, this could either be really interesting or a massive shitstorm: Use this thread to talk about your views on a supreme being, in whatever form you happen to observe.
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OK, this could either be really interesting or a massive shitstorm: Use this thread to talk about your views on a supreme being, in whatever form you happen to observe.
Personally, I believe only in science.
And the Easter bunny.
Kelsey is shy at times but really opens up once you get to know her. She's got this cute little smile where the corner of her lip curls up. She's athletic and just clumsy enough to be cute. She's got a great sense of humor.
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I believe in a higher power. I do not believe in destiny however. I believe that higher power presents us with situations and we make choices that we have to live with.
So free will, but I don't believe the things I have seen are all just random coincidences.
Which is to say, not in a supreme being? Come on now, don't mince words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
OK, so no predestination but a higher power. What kind of higher power is it? Like, what does it do?Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Swami
No supreme being. No afterlife. No nothing. Worm food.
Just 70.3 years on this big rock doing the best we can.
Better?
I firmly believe that there is more than what we can see, taste or touch. I fully believe that there is a higher power. Is it a supreme being? Well, I definitely don't believe in an old white dude wearing a white robe and sitting on some thrown looking down at humanity. After that I don't know. Is it God, Allah or Brahma? I believe that the search for the answer to this question is a lifetime project for me. On the intellectual side of it I've read quite a bit of Judeo-Christian texts, studied a lot of Hinduism in college and later have delved into Taoism and other eastern thoughts. I would love to delve into Buddhism but don't know where to start (feel free to suggest anything Swami).
And as religion cannot all be intellect I'll just say that not all my beliefs are merely based on my intellectual assumptions. Don't get me wrong, I've had no out of body experiences or religious epiphanies. But I do believe that there have been moments in my life that have been spiritual and not something to just be quantified and qualified.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zozwqhSjMp...mar%2BTime.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
Very calmly put.
That about sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
I don't see a lot of evidence that contradicts any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
Obama.
Pretty much goes without saying with y'all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
Faith is the choice of ignorance.
Better words have never been spoken in that case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermy
I knew bukdow was a double account.Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitexport
Holy shit asking Swami for spiritual guidance. We're doomedQuote:
Originally Posted by detroitexport
I'm gonna think about this one for a bit. Needless to say, religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity, but it is also the smartest invention by humanity. Any god that we can conceive of falls so far short of any god that might exist that to even try is to fail. Religion is the single most destructive force to humanity, yet somehow, oddly, it could be the thing that saves us. But to think that religion could save us is to sink way too much hope in humanity, and sink too much hope in beings that needed religion in the first place.
If there is a supreme being, it is long gone from this planet, having moved on long ago to other rocks to populate with beings that will fuck them up. God certainly doesn't plan our lives, certainly has no fucking idea how many hairs are on our heads, and to think that "he" or "they" created "us" in "their" image is nothing more than human ego at work. We are ALL accidents; none of us should have ever been born, and the fact that we've made it this far is nothing short of, well, an accident, ssing how many sperm have been wasted to just get this many of us along the way. Any more thought put into it other than trying to be funny about it is wasted energy. But that doesn't mean I believe there ISN'T a god, just that he has a hell of alot more to do than worry about whether I give 10% of what I make to some lying motherfucker that is trying to convince me that if I do, god will love me all the more.
A Zip post is like looking at piece of art. It takes you a lil bit to decide if you are looking at a master piece or a piece of shit...or something in between.
I've had a couple tonight so I can only get through the 1st couple of sentences. Right now, ^, 50/50
The worst motherfuckers I have ever met in my life are all into believeing there is a god.
It does get a lil old when everything can just be explained away with God
Tahoe, you better sober up before you digest that first post on a supreme being. In fact, have a supreme pizza, you'll get better results, and supreme pizzas can often be delivered, whereas supreme beings don't deliver. In fact, supreme pizzas are better for your wallet: You only have to tip if you feel like it, and even then, no more than 20% of the bill. As for supreme beings, well, those fucktards demand 10% of whatever you got. You got 10 grand, they need a thou. You got ten jars of peanut butter, they need one. And what do supreme beings do with your money or you peanut butter? Who the fuck knows, and if they're so fucking supreme, why the fuck do they need money or peanut butter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
I mean, it's like,
"Hey, I'm the supreme being, you got ten bucks I can borrow so I can go to the movies?"
"WHAT THE FUCK? Can't you just sneak in?"
"Uh, well, now, no, er, how about if I just fry your brains and send you to hell?"
"how 'bout if you do? I say go fuck yourself"
"Well tell you what. I'll be back in two thousand years (or more, ya never know), and until then, well, I'll just fuck with ya'll because ya'll are gonna waste so much time wondering
FUCK OFF
"............."
So much for the supreme being. Get a pizza. You can fill up on it, and then shit it out in the morning.
LMAO...From what I can tell, from my drunken state, this is Golden...or renoir'ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip Goshboots
Organised religion is bullshit but surely there must be a supreme being, otherwise all these planets and rocks and stars floating in space would collide on a regular basis?
I do believe that some force "designed" shit.
I don't believe I need to go to a man made building and listen to some dude read from a book a bunch of old Roman dudes put together to unite their troubled empire and line their own pockets.
If I wanna "experience" the "Supreme Being" I can travel via car for an hour and visit the Daintree Rainforest. Or travel via boat for an hour and swim around The Great Barrier Reef.
Those things don't happen by chance - we are not accidents. If you believe we are then you need to do some research on "God", "Supreme Being" or whatever you wanna call it.
The oldest cultures in the world being in a "Supreme Being" and I believe they were not aas fucking arrogant as we are - and all of them can't be wrong...
Right?
I also believe in science and logic. I agree with this statement, "I don't believe I need to go to a man made building and listen to some dude read from a book a bunch of old Roman dudes put together to unite their troubled empire and line their own pockets." I do think church and religion are positive things though that can help people get through tough times or just be a positive influence in general. Extreme thoughts in religion seem to be a problem. For me the idea of giving up meat for lent with the belief that God will respect this is just proposterous. I act on my own morals, I do nothing because the bible says so or the church pastor says so. I could not imagine the mindset these suicide bombers have in the middle east or on sept 11th.
I guess we will all see the day we die or maybe it will be eternal darkness. I dont like the feeling of mortality, it scares me.
And thus, our "hedging my bets" belief in something greater. I'm reminded of DesCartes and his "There is a god because I think there is" argument. Also, the bible (which has all kinds of inherent circular arguments built in) has this curious statement: (Paraphrase): God has set eternity in the hearts and minds of man. Meaning, it is because of god that we think there is a god and can conceive of a future (and supposedly animals can't). Those are two great statements. There's no way to counter them (not that you need to. I mean, really, a person could do a lot worse than to believe he needs to be a good boy so he'll go to heaven).Quote:
Originally Posted by gusman
But of course the problem comes in when people cordon off their beliefs, join groups, go to those buildings, and really convince themselves that their way is the best way, that their god outranks all the others, that their "prophet" is the coolest, and that their interpretation of the Bed Time stories and mythology is the only right one. It isn't a stretch to go from their to lopping off the heads of those who you consider to be infidels spreading fals ideologies to the detriment of the rest of the world.
From almost Day One of any type of civilization, the "leaders" or "rulers" of any particular culture have linked themselves to some sort of deity. Why? Because who better to have put you in charge than some one people can't see, but who can make it rain, get cold, cause famine, etc etc. It's control. Even the "God Bless America" USA. Shit, all the Jews did is follow up all other creation myths, link their lineage to some sort of "god" (and one not terribly opposed to blowing everything up every oncet in awhile)--and for some reason (COUGH**LOBBYISTS AND OIL***COUGH)--we are forever, and probably fatally, linked to their mythology.
And is it me, or does god seem to make the most sense to the least intelligent or most fucked up, and seem more likely to get the least intelligent or most fucked up to act? I mean, why the hell won't Osama Bin Laden strap a bomb to his nuts and run into a shopping mall?
I think it's all lost with this "heaven" thing. What any "god" should accomplish is summed up in the words of the prophet who said, "Love your brother as you would love yourself"--end of story. Fuck all the rest. Of course, I have two brothers and I like one of them but hate the other.
Buddhists say that a Buddha is a Supreme Being, which is to say a being more perfect than any being that lives anywhere in the universe. So there is such a thing as a Supreme Being, but not at the moment.
The universe was not designed or created by any being, it just operates according to natural laws. The Buddha described 31 realms of existence that a being can be born in. They may be more enjoyable to live in, but they are still full of unhappy, sick, dying, and poor beings. The basic facts of life are that stress is pervasive in all life, that everything is impermanent, and that everything is fundamentally insubstantial. These facts apply to all beings, from the Great Brahma down to the dust mite. Basically, if there was such a thing as God, it wouldn't matter. God has nothing to do with freeing yourself from stress.
There is no entity that controls the universe. There's no entity that even controls itself. Buddhists believe that not only is there no almighty God, there isn't any such thing as a soul either.
DXP: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...theravada.html
I hope I never meet any of you in person. If nobody here believes in a higher being/afterlife, etc...then why bother doing anything good in this world?
If I were all of you I'd say fuck it and do whatever I want (as long as I didn't get caught). God/Karma won't catch up to me.
So, why don't you want to do good? Why are "your wants" and "good" so incompatible?Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
THE UNITED CHURCH OF GL'ENN?
Holy shit!Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
This is how y'all make me out to be.
Because you don't believe in a supreme being, or are agnostic, you can't have morals?
give me a break!
Yeah, I'm not following you here Chris.
It's okay to do good even without the expectation of "the big payback".
Trying to leave this place better than you found it can be reason enough.
Somebody is a parrot for a pastor. This is a typically christian argument. Claiming ethics and morals only for the fools who need a pot to drop 10% of their paycheck into to get a cabin on the beach in heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
Lemme axe ya this: Why don't Lions go out and slaughter 100 wildebeests just for the fun of it? They can do it, they're fucking lions, man. And wildebeests are just stupid, stinking dumbass wildebeests.
If animals don't just go out and kill shit for the hell of it--say "Hey, what the fuck, let's kill something"--then why all the sudden would people, if they didn't have some fear of going to hell or didn't know about no heaven, completely abandon everything "good" and run amok like, say, something worse than animals?
And ya know, how about all those societies that were here before Jesus came down and started healing lepers? How about all those societies that didn't have a storybook telling them they were the "chosen people"? How'd they make it? How'd they make it without some big fat-assed guidebook that they ignore 98% of the time?
I think your argument completely backfires.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
Let's take 2 people for example. Person 1 believes in God, and doesn't do bad things just because it might catch up with him regardless of what he thinks on the inside. Person 2 doesn't do bad things because they just don't think that way, and don't need a fear of hell or whatever to prevent them from doing said things.
I'll be friends with person number 2 thank you. I know it's a deeper argument than that, but you just said you'd rather be friends with person 1.
Altruistic behavior in groups provides material benefit. Whether you're talking game theory, sociology, animal studies, economics... there are a great many secular angles to a case for cooperation.Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
Um, Chris - just because someone doesn't believe in a Supreme Being doesn't mean they're an asshole.
I think I speak for many when I say I hate everyone equally. I cope with everyone until they piss me off and once that happens well... it's on.
I don't start the shit, I end it.
But in a normal day I do the decent thing for people, regardless of what I may or may not get back when I die.
Anyone that does "good" in the hope of getting something in return is likely in for a world of hurt when their life ends (assuming there is a Supreme Being)
How is the Supreme Being gonna judge that kind of dude?
In a word: Harshly!
I believe that God does not endorse organised religion, which is used by stupid fucking men to put themselves into a position of power which they will eventually abuse.
Man as a creature is a petty, arrogant fool. We think we know shit cause we're so fucking great at everything. Yet it wasn't too long ago that people thought the world was flat, that the Sun orbitted around the Earth, that no one could build a plane and fly the fucker, that no man could run 100m in under 10 seconds, there was no way we could send a man into outer space and so on and so forth.
Point to that long ass sentence? We don't know shit!
In 100 years from now things could (will?) be completely fucking different than they are now. Will we know more about a Supreme Being? I'd like to think so but who knows?
We'll never know shit about the supreme being. Heck, when the Jews pirated other mythologies and then added it to their own to create the Big Story, the supreme being was fooling around with shit all the time. Then all the sudden, shit gets put down in writing, people start talking, the lame start walking, they nail the one nice guy in the world to a tree, and POOF! SHE disappears. It's been over 2000 years now. People still go up to mountain tops, people walk around shouting "we're in the end times", famine, wars, pestilence, destruction and death keep happening--and yet the supreme being remains silent.
But OH! Satan gets to have a whole lot of fun running around fucking things up and talking to people, making them do all kinds of bad stuff. It's kind of unfair if you axe me.
I recognize that there are some people in the world who can't envision a reason for good behavior without the existence of God and His judgment. That's fine, and it's absolutely not a barrier to whether or not I can be friends with someone.
But beliefs do have consequences. (Of course the Buddhist has to say something about consequences.) Consider the fact that you, as a child, were taught to behave yourself because you were warned there would be punishment. After a while, when you were a teenager, you learned that there was honestly very little a parent could do to meaningfully punish you. Spankings came and went. Santa Claus came and went. You lost your allowance, but you got your own paycheck. You still continued not to steal, rape, or murder. Why? Because you developed a more subtle understanding of morality - that it was about the choices you made, and the implications those choices had for everyone, not just you.
But when you hang all of your morality on God, you're actually taking that sense of choice away. It's automatic. You want the reward and not the punishment, so you don't steal, rape or murder. It's a way to keep you from misbehaving, and that's good, but it's not morality. It's obedience. Some point down the road, you may be in a difficult situation that requires a choice, involving things that the Bible doesn't explicitly talk about, and obedience is not going to be much help.
Then there is the "fundamental" basis of belief in God. To believers, it is all about a basis for good behavior. Therefore there are those who believe in God, and those who don't, and those who don't have no solid basis for good behavior. It divides the world into two types of people and it creates a conflict between those who believe and those who don't. That conflict is irreducible. It cannot be minimized. If the morality of non-believers can not be trusted, then believers and non-believers cannot really come to a firm understanding between them about moral issues. That hasn't been an issue in most of the world throughout history, because almost everyone in the world has believed in God. But this is no longer the case in Europe or southeast Asia, and the numbers of Americans who don't believe in God have shot up in the last 20 years from 3% to at least 15%, according to the latest Pew study. I hope that this conflict is not irreducible, and that a sense of morality can be shared between believers and non-believers, or else this world is in for terrible times.
As for the design issue, I see the universe as being generally indifferent to our existence, and that would probably not be the case if there was design at hand. We've seen entire worlds wiped out by collision and destruction. We've seen our species beset by things like Bubonic Plague and influenza that have nearly wiped us out. There are infectious agents lurking in dark places that are poorly understood or even unknown to us. Our technology has finally reached a point where we can eliminate ourselves. The chances of survival for all beings approaches zero as we age, and there is no reason to believe that the same couldn't be true for the species as a whole. Instead of looking at it as if the world seems amazingly suited to the existence of humans, I think it's probably more correct to look at it as if we are the inevitable results of the way our world has developed, so of course our environment suits us.
I'm sorry this went on for so long, it just really got me thinking.