Amare + Shaq + Nash + a jumpshooting cast =
That's a nightmare.
Better than Boston in my opinion.
And Shaq would do it just to spite Kobe, believe that.
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Amare + Shaq + Nash + a jumpshooting cast =
That's a nightmare.
Better than Boston in my opinion.
And Shaq would do it just to spite Kobe, believe that.
I'd agree with you if this was Shaq when he isn't washed up.
Hey, if he can stay healthy though, who knows. I still think LA is better.
I don't like it at all for the Suns. How were the Heat able to find a taker for Shaq in the first place, and then get an all-star back in return?
(edit) Wait, maybe I have it figured out.
Is this the answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS News Story
http://www.urbanhonking.com/truefan/...s/shaq-cop.jpg
Bubbles and Karl are the first people I've seen that think this is anything but ridiculous. Shaq can't play Suns ball, period. Huge mistake.
Doesnt have to. He can still force double teams if you dump it to him enough and still rebound. As a team are the suns unselfish enough to involve him as much as they need to in order to get their jump shooters wide open? I think so. But who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
This definitely is a knee jerk reaction to their division rival nabbing Gasol.
LOL. The heat are getting a steal if Marion resigns. Dwade and Marion should be interesting.
The suns are just fucking themselves over. If I was Kerr, Id easily take Prince and a few expirings for Marion. The suns are no longer contenders after this.
There is no way the Suns would be able to slug it out with the real contenders if they limit their offense to half court. No way. Forget how much success they might have dumping it down and then passing it out (and lets just pretend that guys like Hill would still be able to hit threes standing at the ark for 15 seconds waiting for that jumper rather than pulling up at the ark in transition). They will stop no one with Nash and Amare on the court and you HAVE to play defense if you are going to play a half court game.
shaq is still shaq for about 20 mpg.
the suns need toughness and something new. a plow in the middle could work. plus shaq passes well. nash can make any athletic sf pretty badass.
i would definitly do this if i were phx. why not?
Well, "Fool" this is because Bubbles and Karl don't think to the constraints of "suns ball" Obviously with Shaq, you stop playing Suns ball. you play a half court offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
And the possibilities inside of a half court offense with this roster, are PRETTY FUCKING GOOD.
yet, you , like many others you will hear from, don't take the thinking any farther than what the suns do already.
K sweetie? :P
They are improved defensively with Shaq. And they don't have to play great defense, just enough defense. Offensively they should be the most efficient team in the league and one of the better rebounder's at both ends. So it doesn't really matter how great the defense is if they always have the ball, and always score when they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
To be efficient with Shaq on the court you are hoping for 1 of 2 things happening. Either Shaq will make your team efficient or the Suns shooters can still shoot without that transition rythm and free flow because they aren't going to have it while Shaq is on the court.
Miami is shit in terms of offensive efficiency this year with Shaq so I don't think #1 is happening. MAYBE Nash can get Shaq the ball more than Wade, Williams, Kobe, and Fisher have in the past but I think those "they don't get me the ball" cries that were legitimate at one point in Shaqs career have turned into "he doesn't get proper low post position as often as he needs to."
As for option 2. See Quiton Richardson.
Bucher says the Suns want Shaq for defensive reasons. Now sure Shaq is better than Amare defensively, but Mourning has been the Heats' primary defensive weapon in the post the last three years and he had even replaced Shaq on the court in crucial moments because of his superior defensive abilities. Shaq has very limited lateral movement and has the highest fouls/game rate of his career (matched only by his rookie year). Remember when he kept fouling out in the beginning of the year?
As far as rebounding, getting rid of your teams leading rebounder for a guy who brings down 2 less boards a game doesn't scream "improvement" to me.
You think shaq will play more than 25 minutes a game?. I think they can adapt, solely because they still get to shoot the shots they want in the end(jumpers and dunks), but become more wide open. I think Amre/Shaq is a pretty good half court combo (half the time the help out defender will be Amare's defender). And when shaq sits, speed up the tempo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
The Suns will never win a title if they can't battle inside. They almost pulled a Dallas type choke against the lakers the season before last because of the likes of Kwame Brown getting inside on them. Shaq wont play enough minutes to completely slow them down. Again this is just my opinion. I think Amare will look better defensively at PF and that shaq will be a lift defensivesly in the paint which may force a jump shooting match for stretches, a match that the Suns feel they can win.
Also Marion/Wade is a nice combo. But nothing I'd fear anytime soon unless they nabbed a class A Big Man.
Its wierd to think of using the big man (rather than a point guard) to change tempo for only half the game. That's some real discipline to be expected from Nash and co but I've no problem with giving Nash the benefit of the doubt and he ran a more iso oriented offense in Dallas.
I can see the point of this being essentially an upgrade to how they use Skinner but losing Marion would seem to be a high price to pay for doing that.
I can appreciate the philosophy that the Suns have to have a big man presence to get anywhere but they got damn far without that presence last year and the Spurs don't look anything like they did last year so far (and even with Kobe, I don't see Gasol as as much of a threat as Duncan inside). Its all just opinion on my side too. I've been wrong before.
This has nothing to do with the Suns getting better, and everything to do with the Lakers abusing Amare with their big three in the playoffs. Shaq is the Suns 5 spot to Amare's clean up spot... using the ill-fated yet apropos baseball reference.
Stand still shots are easier than moving shots, except for way off the line shots where you need the extra momentum to the basket to just get it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
In addition. That free flow can lead to drives because of the spacing , instead of jump shots More high percentage again.
Miami as a total team is shit, Shaq is still a high percentage man hammer.Quote:
Miami is shit in terms of offensive efficiency this year with Shaq
He is the one being traded ^_-
Shaq protects Amare down low and vice versa. Amare can use his athleticism to play help side defense. Shaq protects dribble penetration to the basket.Quote:
Bucher says the Suns want Shaq for defensive reasons. Now sure Shaq is better than Amare defensively, but Mourning has been the Heats' primary defensive weapon in the post the last three years and he had even replaced Shaq on the court in crucial moments because of his superior defensive abilities. Shaq has very limited lateral movement and has the highest fouls/game rate of his career (matched only by his rookie year). Remember when he kept fouling out in the beginning of the year?
Mourning is a great defender, but he doesn't change the game like Shaq, flaws and all. Zo is a great blocker, Shaq pretty much cuts 33% of the lane off with just his frame. And there isn't even a point of trying to back him down in the post.
I guess statistically it doesn't . But I'll take Shaq in a half court over Matrix in some bugger ass running game any time. That's the problem with stats isn't it though? They are contextual.Quote:
As far as rebounding, getting rid of your teams leading rebounder for a guy who brings down 2 less boards a game doesn't scream "improvement" to me.
Sure, Phoenix's game was never going to win a championship - but why in hell do they pay someone else to take Kurt Thomas, and then go and trade for Shaq?!?
It just makes no fucking sense, and Kerr needs to go back to behind the announcers desk/Their owner needs to open up his god dam wallet, or sell the team.
I'm reserving judgement until I actually see how they play.
Stand still shooting is better for some (see Kyle Korver). Its indisputable that the Suns run offense and free shooting has helped plenty of players with their percentages (see Tim Thomas, Grant Hill, Quentin Richardson) and there are plenty of players to use as evidence of that.
Its contradictory to say Shaq both clogs the lane like no other and spaces the floor for slashers. The Suns have never had a hard time getting layups, getting Shaq doesn't help that.
Its flat wrong to claim that Shaq changes games defensively more so then Mourning. Go ask ANY Heat fan and they will tell you that Mourning was Ben Wallace-esque the last 3 years and that Shaq was pulled for defensive reasons on multiple occasions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
Ha, you have made a fatal error in your argument. Miami Heat fans do not exist.
I have won.
Fuck.
I submit.
Well played.
No matter how badly the Suns might need an inside presence, giving up Marion for a dilapidated Shaq is not going to make them a better team.
The only reason I want to see this trade happen is to give Kobe motivation to bust 100 in a playoff game against the Suns.
I disapprove of this deal from a Suns perspective and as a Heat hater.
The Heat were pretty much doomed being saddled with Shaq's huge contract and declining skills. Steve Kerr just bailed them out, big time.
The Suns with Marion > The Suns with Shaq
WTF is Kerr thinking?
D-WADE certainly lives a charmed life.
Angrily,
Glenn
shaq play good 20 minutes.
shaq devorce need leave miami.
Any other year this would have been huge news. This year, I care less about this than I do about Chris Webber going to GSW.
This is a bad trade for both teams. Plain and simple.
I don't mind it, because it will be fun to watch the Suns start losing games left and right.
Shaq needs to lose about 150 lbs.
Nah, I don't like it and thought it was and still is utter shit. I just said that if he stays healthy, who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool
It depends. Marion could simply walk next year. He could also get a fatter contract and saddle the heat for even longer than Shaq would have. Even if Marion does not get a raise from them, he'll still only be a couple million short of Shaq's money a year. They'll have 49 mil in Marion, Wade, Haslem and Blount. The only other player on the roster is Cook, and Parker with a 2.4 mil option. If the cap is about 57 mil (with a normal increase), they'll have about 5 mil to spend (assuming Parker wants his 2.4 mil) with no SF and only 2 bench players under contract. Suppose they get a starting SF with their pick. They still have no bench and they'll be filling it with vet min players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
If that first rounder turns out to be a good player, they'll have 3 good players, no legit center, and they'll simply be like Washington has been (a middle of the road playoff team).
BUT, if he opts out of his contract then they effectively cleared Shaq off their cap. No one says they HAVE to resign him. And they could always trade him again.
Even if Marion walks, the Heat wins this deal, IMO.
It'd be like trading Shaq for expirings. They get all that money off the cap and they can go out looking for someone to team up with Wade.
Heat could be actually ok....next season.
I don't expect them to be utter shit or something.
They'll be a solid 7 or 8 seed. :)
I agree they win if he walks for sure. I think they lose if they sign Marion long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
I forgot Banks' salary in my figures, which is 4+ mil for 3 more years. That puts the Heat at the cap, and unable to sign anyone worthwhile if they keep Marion.
I really don't see them keeping him at all, because they'll be a two man team and have zero depth (unless they hit it big in the lotto and get a stud).
So who do they persue in FA?
Maybe Banks revives his career as their point guard? He was a hot commodity when he signed with the suns wasn't he?
Jermaine?
Brand?
Maggs?
Artest?
Jamison?
If they could get a big and a wing they could be solid. They could be very good if their pick becomes an all star caliber player. They could sign a backup forward cheap and be a pretty good team:
PG 2008 first rounder/Banks
SG Wade/Cook
SF Artest
PF Haslem
C Brand/Blount
this deal is great for phx.
play shaq 5 minutes at the start of every qrtr (i will be flabergasted if they get him to come off the bench. dont no mvps come off the bench). change of pace type of guy.
face it, bynum could score 100 pts on pre shaq phx. shaq hates bynum, and you know hes got something in the tank for this season. he'll get by on hatred if he has to.
phx suddenly becomes a historically fascinating team. youve got a top 3 center of all time (imo), a sf who was on track to be the best of all time (imo), and probably a top 5-10 pg all time. not that theyre all in their primes... plus amare could have been as good or better than any pf (doubt that happens now).
this deal fucks phoenix' future frautfully, but they went from no chance in hell at winning a championship this year to contender. i love ballsy deals like this.
I'm really pissed off by this deal because I was really looking forward to shaq throwing dwade under the bus like kobe and penny. I don't think that marion will get a huge deal after next season. I see him getting chauncey type money because he will be going into the tail end of his career. (Not every team operates like the magic) Considering the quality of freshmen in the ncaa and miami's shitty season thus far, this shaq trade will set the heat up to build around wade + (rose, beasly, mayo etc.). In phoenix, I don't foresee the nash stoudemire pick and roll working nearly as effectively with shaq cluttering up the middle. Mostly, I was just looking forward to 3 more years of wade/shaq acrimony as they will forever be two of my least favorite players.
This is going to be hilarious.