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Originally Posted by CNN
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Originally Posted by CNN
Looks promising. I bet we can top that tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John McCain
This fall in value is really the ultimate outcome of bogus accounting that sprang from the deregulation of the 90s (starting with repub congress and clinton presidency) and has roots in reagan's 'the bill will never come due budget philosophy'. The deregulation has led to incredible information assymmetry in the investment market. only insiders have any clue about the value of most companies. Creative accounting tricks have been the rule more than the (enron) exception. Quarterly statements have always tended toward the misleading, but statements seem to be almost meaningless at this point. No one knows the true value of many publicly traded firms. markets with information assymetry are NOT efficient.
What has been the precident for prosecuting insider trading from enron? How many people were prosecuted for unethical conduct? There was no punishment for making shit up. eventually, these companies fall beneath the weight of their own incompetence. anyways, once the world realizes how little they actually know about corporate america, the whole system could really collapse at any moment. these financial institutions truely represent the roman leaders partied the night away while rome burned beneath them.
Companies like lehman bros. don't fall over night. their value has declined over the last few months based on when each type of investor learned about the reality: first high placed managers, 2) their friends, 3) high $ investors, 4) mutual funds, 5) index funds, 6) everyone else.
It could be the case that other sectors of the economy have been more truthful and it might be a mistake to pull money out now, but we don't know. Anyways, i stand by what i said in april.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myself in april
I've said this before, but I don't really care about the Dow or whatever. That's not "our" economy. That's the rich people's economy. Their economy can be perfectly fine while ours is in the shitter, so I don't care to hear about it anymore.
But if I did care about the rich people's economy, I'd probably be fascinated with the levels of delusion out there in the media. "Huge banks getting bailed out or sold for parts weekly; everything is fine."
The Dow, bonds, and home equity constitute a lot of regular folks' retirement money. All are under siege.
You know it rebounded yesterday, right?
Blame Chris Dodd.
And it was a great rebound. Go down 500 points, rebound 140 points.
Seems like a solid economy.
This is as much about the failure of U.S. economic principles as anything.
This is socialism at the highest levels, the largest single nationalization of resources the world has ever seen.
Capitalism is pretty much dead.
If you have any skin in the game beyond the cash in your wallet, there's some reason to worry. Mortagages and the financial instruments derived from them have poisoned the entire financial well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Swami
You think its fucked up now, wait till a couple of those ego tripping, thieves up in DC passes some stupid fuckin legislation to make shit worse.
Like the Bush Doctrine so we can fight a 3 trillion dollar war and borrow billions from China?
Yea, I forgot everything is Bush's fault. The Dem Congress handled things magnificently, along with the American consumer.
And that Barney running the Banking committee or whatever it was, did a great job.
But hey, keep those talking points coming. Don't think for yourselves, just repeat those things you read off those 'fair and balanced' websites.
Like the Dem Congress was there for 7 years fucking things up.
No blaming the American overconsumer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
For shame...
Somone up there damn sure should have been telling us something. The Dems are in Congress too even if they didn't have a majority. They still get a microphone as best as I can tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRay11
Actually, McCain deserves his fair share of the blame too for his push to deregulate the banking industry with Phil Gramm. (1999)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
I agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
Would you like to buy more?
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Originally Posted by CNN
Which Joe Biden voted for and I think it passed 92-6 or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
Not sure if this should go into a new thread, but Russia's stock market caved I guess. It went from 300b to 40b in a matter of a week or something????
Puting kept saying don't worry, we are in good shape. Now they're having to dump huge amounts of their recently acquired oil wealth to keep their economy floating.
At least Biden didn't sponsor it :^)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe
And remember, we're not voting for VP here, right?
Just saying if you think that bill was in part responsible for the situation we're going through right now, then both sides supported it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
Agreed, both sides get some blame, but I'm guessing that we disagree on the %'s that each should get.
I certainly don't think that counting on "THE CAREER DE-REGULATOR" to get this shit regulated is a wise move.
We need to throw more pieces of the pie then just our fantastic elected officials. Peeps were taking full advantage of the situation too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
peeps who are stupid with money > peeps taking advantage of the system
There's a LOT of collective stupidity when it comes to money. Since money is how the world keeps score, there's not a lot of really rich people who are very inclined to share (unless you count the "get rich quick" crowd, which is simply taking advantage of stupid people). It doesn't help that most kids are taught by K12 teachers who aren't fixated on money -- they wouldn't be teachers if they were! So, you have stuff like economics taught as a formal subject in 11th-12th grade, "home ec" being more about learning to cook rather than learning to shop, etc. Kids should be learning the formal fundamentals of how money moves at an early age. The parents should get with the program, too. Kids should learn how to play the stock market, eBay etc. with small sums of real money. Economically speaking, Alex P. Keaton had it going on.
The Alex P. Keaton coalition got drummed out of the modern day conservative movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
Let's give a trillion dollar bailout to Wall Street with no oversight to deal with a problem caused by a lack of oversight. How fiendishly brilliant!
You've got everyone from Mike Pence and Newt Gingrich to Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi stating their opposition with the structure of what's proposed.
This one's gonna get fun...
I would seriously rather have Michael Moore speaker than Nancy P. Just one of those peeps that seems USELESS.
I like the proposed restrictions on executive pay (golden parachutes) that the Dems are trying to include in this, but the Licks will probably fight that one tooth and nail.
The way that this is all being pushed along so quickly is kind of similar to what they did with the Patriot Act, I'd like to see this slowed down a bit.
Can't give the Bush administration another blank check on this one.
Paulson and Bernanke made a big promise with our money, but didn't bother to consult with our elected officials beforehand. Never mind the Dems -- the Reps feel just as out of it:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,425693,00.html
This international take on things is sadly amusing. Being compared with Albania-- oof:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,7535469.story
Someone did the math, and its $1.8 trillion of bailout, or roughly $6000 for every man, woman, and child:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26808715/site/14081545/
For some perspective, excluding social security (which is a distinctly separate pile of money), this is more than what all of America pays in income tax in a year (~$1.7 trillion). Personal income tax is about 80% of the federal budget, with corporate income tax providing the other 20% (~$400 million).
Remember, the fundamentals of our banking system are sound.
Paulson said so, not so long ago:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/25764545
Do you trust the man who didn't see the ditch to get you out of it?
Good for Paulson and Bernanke. All the 'elected officials' would do is drag it out (do nothing congress) and then fuck it up anyway. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship
with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country
has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of
800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it
would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my
replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you
may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation
movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the
funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds
in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under
surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a
reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the
funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund
account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to
wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission
for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond
with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect
the funds.
Yours Faithfully,
Minister of Treasury Paulson
^that rules
I wish they had spelled Phil Gramm's name correctly, though.
Sincerely,
R. Federer
Can we put a due to Barney running the Banking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Mxy
Let's Play Wall Street Bailout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds
It is funny how you constantly repeat far right media talking points, but claim not to watch/listen to them. Do you really think that B. Frank is solely to blame, despite the fact that most of the bad mortgages occurred prior to 2007 when the dems took over? The former repub banking chair (oxley) said that he worked with bfrank to write a bill that would have prevented some of this mess. the bill passed the house, but was given the 'one-finger salute' from bushco. in fact the repub majority sec board passed a new rule in 2003 that allowed five dealer-brokers to way over-leverage themselves. They could run a debt to asset ratio of 30-40:1 instead of 12:1. those firms were bear stearns, merrill lynch, lehman bros, goldman sachs, and morgan stanley. was that also bfrank's fault?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahoe