Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
I think this has to do with the derth of big men vs. the demand.
Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
I think this has to do with the derth of big men vs. the demand.
Probably. I think a lot is being read into his measurables being better than expected, too.
I can't figure out what Dumars could possibly be doing with three second-rounders (36, 39, 44). All three picks could probably net a decent role player, but this gives Dumars a little flexibility. He could, conceivably, trade up with the first two into, say 29 and grab something like a backup PG for Stuckey. There've been rumors flying about trading Amir; that could be done to get higher into the first round and snag BJ Mullens.
Dumars has some options to work with, but a serious lack of quality bigs in this draft really hurts the Pistons, and by so deeply committing to the cap space plan Dumars isn't exactly operating in a position of strength.
Perhaps I'm seeing this too narrowly--what do y'all think?
If we consider all options Joe could actually be the King on Draft Day.
How many teams aren't happy with their pick slots? Plenty!
How many teams want to trade out of the first round? Plenty!
And yet some other teams want to get into the first round!
Joe could be the go between for all teams - we'll just have to wait until we actually have the cap space before any deals are finalised, since we can't trade Amir + #15 for Haywood + #5 or our seconds for a player and a 1st rounder on Draft Day cause we don't have the space at the time.
It should be the most interesting Draft Day (rumour-wise) in a long, long time for Piston fans though. I for one am hoping I'm not left disappointed again.
well then i'd get prepared P. because while i agree with what you're saying, everything i hear makes it seem like we will NOT be looking to be aggressive like that.
something i would try to do, would be to see if there's someone on the board a team wants early in the 2nd. then trade that 2nd for a future #1.
but yeah it seems we're among those teams who are also trying to move out of the 1st. or at least it seems we would avoid acquiring a 2nd #1 as it would take away from our cap space.
cap space, schmap space. we will have plenty anyway and while i agree this draft is trash overall....there ARE guys in the top 20 who i really like and could be a big part of our future. having another pick or 2 in that range can only be a good things. unless of course you only think of the guaranteed contract and the cap space the pick would take up.
we'll see. i guess i'll have to see what joe does in FA/trade market too before i pass final judgment on his draft day moves. once the full picture is seen, maybe his draft day moves- whatever they may be- will make more sense.
but i'd prepared for disappointment now just in case. last year certainly was that way so i can definitely see this year being similar, with a 'WTF?' move or 2. :o(
Joe Dumars is king!
love dumars- always have and always will. but he has his work cut out for him this offseason. this is probably a more difficult offseason than when we lost hill. will have to see what he does with the assets he's got. i'm curious to see how it plays out.
Well, I am always prepared to be disappointed on Draft Day (it's almost an annual event).
But why couldn't Joe do this:
First Deal Announced on Draft Day:
Detroit trade all 3 of their second rounders to Washington for #5 (Jordan Hill)
The Wizards really don't wanna pony up $3.5 mil for their pick (or so the rumours go). So, they make the trade - grabbing 3 role playing rookies that Flipper can develop around his core of Arenas, Jamison and Butler.
The fact that they save almost $3 mil is a major thing, since it's more like $6 mil cause they're over the tax.
Second Deal on Draft Day:
Detroit trade Amir Johnson to New York for #8 (Stephen Curry?)
Knicks do it cause there is really no star available at #8 and they don't wanna have money tied up in lesser players right now - they wanna clear as much cap room as humanly possible for 2010.
Amir gives them an expiring contract - so BOOM! They love it. Amir's addition could also turn out to be pretty good for the Knicks, if "Super Coach" can help Amir realise his "potential"
We then Draft at #15 and you can pick whoever you want.
Point of this is:
We only use $3.5 mil of our cap space and that's to add Hill. We might even use less than that because I don't think the cap hold on the #8 pick is as much as Amir's salary.
So, we'd have 3 young players (Hill, Curry, Daye) that have potential, Prince, Rip, Stuckey, Kwame, Maxiell, AA, Bynum and approx $15 mil to spend.
That nets us:
Jordan Hill - I stated in this thread or a different one that his measurements were slightly better than Griffin's. I haven't checked his "athletic" measurements, which are up now.
Apparently he is capable of playing some C in today's NBA.
At #8 we could go for Curry and get a shooter (and we now all know how much Joe loves 3 point shooters lol) or grab James Johnson if we think he's gonna be a quality combo F. Right now I'll say we take Curry.
His shooting automatically helps and apparently he's capable of initiating the offense, which is something else Joe has mentioned (2 ball handlers). With Stuckey we have the luxury of picking a smaller SG because on D Stuck can guard the normal SG's while Curry guards the PG.
At #15 we can go for the BPA or take BJ Mullens if he's there and get a big that could help us down the road.
So, those 3 deals net us some young talent and satisfies those fans that are dying for fresh blood on the roster.
With the cap space we can still sign Boozer or another big for $10 mil and then reward Dice for his loyalty and give him the rest of our space.
Team:
C: Dice/Kwame/Mullens
F: Boozer/Hill/Maxiell
F: Prince/**
G: Rip/AA/Curry
G: Stuckey/Bynum
** With Curry and Bynum on board we can expect Stuckey to play SG more than ever before, which shift some of Rip's minutes (and AA's) to backing up Prince.
So, this is Joe hedging his bets. He grabs a "stud" to make us contenders now (Boozer) while getting the youth the team really needs to contend for the long haul.
With Kwame, Dice and Bynum expiring we also free up money for next off-season to re-sign Willy and grab another piece
I don't see NY being that desperate to shed a few million bucks. They'd have to hope they get a star at #8 so Lebron doesn't think the cupboard is bare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFchris
Having the money to sign LeBron and DWade would not be a bare cupboard....but let's see how the next 2 salary caps play out. This year is going to be a slight decrease if any, next year will be the big hit.
Chris - No one at #8 is likely to be an All-Star so if they were relying on getting a good player to show Lebron the cupboard wasn't bare then they fucked up.
I read that they wanna clear as much space as possible. I don't think they really care about the pick - it's not a player they have in their system already.
If anything they are trading a guy that might fit/might not for the expiring contract of a young, athletic PF. Amir can just board and block and run the floor.
They (and every other team in the league) should jump at the chance to add Amir. If he sucks you only paid him for 1 season. If he has a good season you decide if you wanna keep him or not (and you have his Bird Rights)
well, the Magic had money to sign Hill and TD. TD never came. Having space doesn't mean the player thinks that is his best chance to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermy
And if they do feel that way, why not package #8 to get rid of Curry or Jeffries? Then they'd have even more space than just selling the pick.
They may.
And ORL is not NYC. Just as DET is not. Let's not go there.
right. NYC has much more of a draw, I agree. Still, it's a lot to ask a guy to leave a winning situation. Unless Lebron was already signed, then you'd have an easy time finding guys to play with him.
Didn't Chicago have a hard time signing guys too though? I seem to remember a time after MJ was gone that they had major cap space and got nothing for it.
Yeah, I remember T-mac throwing out the first pitch at a Cubs game then never talking to them again.....I think that was a case of no one wanting to follow Jordan there. That was a real, real bad team though. They were one of the 5 worst in history if I remember. NY has something to build and a willingness to spend. That and I think Lebron believes he can do it by himself with a couple of key pieces....you talk to him about adding Bosh or Wade? Whew.
I doubt Wade goes to NYC. I bet Bosh would follow him though.
Other good side kicks:
Joe Johnson
Dirk?
Redd
RJ
Peja
Nash
Shaq
Some of those are on the decline and would command less money. But plenty of other options if Bosh/Wade wouldn't join him.
Discussion topic:
I haven't looked up the NBA draft rules to verify this, but if the rules are similar to the NFL, could we see some teams at the bottom of the first round "passing" on their picks until the top of the 2nd round?
If that's possible, this could be a real mess.
And fun!
No they've got a rookie cap hold unless they trade it... they'd simply trade their pick for a 2nd rounder.
IMO our high 2nd round picks have more league value than late 1st rounders in THIS draft.
Is that always true though, due to the need to guarantee those late 1sts?
In most, but not in a deep draft like 2 years ago where guys like AA were available at the end of the 1st, and you're going to sign them regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl'enn
on a side note- aaron afflalo went right where he should have. or perhaps higher. he is every bit a late 1st to early 2nd round player IMO.
Quote:
Blair (Buffalo, N.Y.): Do you think when the draft comes around, the Pistons might think about picking up DeJuan Blair? I think he’d be a good replacement at power forward for Rasheed. And what’s up with Iverson?
Langlois: Blair has lost nearly 40 pounds, by recent accounts, since getting serious about his conditioning. He’s been impressive in individual workouts and now it looks unlikely that he’ll be around at 15 when the Pistons pick. Iverson will be a free agent on July 1. The persistent buzz is that he’ll probably wind up playing for Larry Brown in Charlotte.
Again, if we move Amir or Max I'd consider him. Right now I don't see how he gets PT.
My question is, if he really did lose 40 lbs, is that too much?
I thought the Knicks had serious interest in Curry. He's not going to cost very much for the next 4-5 years, he's a potential sniper, and if they get LeBron they're going to need guys that can just nail the open 3s that he creates.
Quote:
UNC's Ty Lawson attends predraft workouts with Pistons
By VINCE ELLIS • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • June 5, 2009
Point guard Ty Lawson from national champion North Carolina was probably the biggest name to workout for the Pistons this week.
Director of player personnel George David said this morning that 10 prospects visited the team’s practice facility for predraft workouts and interviews on Tuesday and Thursday. The NBA Draft will be held June 25 in New York.
Among the 10 was Lawson, who was the catalyst of the Tar Heels surprisingly easy march to the NCAA title at Ford Field in April.
Lawson, a lightning quick penetrator that excels in transition, would be a candidate for the Pistons’ first-round pick (15th overall). Lawson’s knock is his 6-foot frame and questions about his ability to play defense at the NBA level.
David described the workouts as a combination of first-round and second-round possibilities. The Pistons having three picks in the second (Nos. 36, 39 and 44).
Gonzaga teammates Austin Daye (forward) and Josh Heytvelt (center/power forward) were also among the visitors. Daye is a first-round prospect; Heytvelt a second.
Other prospects were LSU’s 6-5 combo guard Garrett Temple, USC’s 6-9 power forward Taj Gibson and Texas’ 6-7 forward Damion James.
All are considered second-round choices.
You gotta wonder about guys dropping so much weight.
Maybe teams told him to drop 50 pounds and he's trying to do it?
One would think that if he was potential Lotto pick 40 pounds ago he had no reason to drop the weight.
I hope this doesn't hurt his stock. It shouldn't but you never know.
As for Lawson - my stance hasn't changed: If he's the BPA available when we pick select him and work shit out later.
You could always have AA back up Prince, Stuckey play some minutes behind Rip and that would free up some time at PG behind Stuckey and Bynum for The Law.
(Does he even have a nickname? Is he gonna be good enough to have a nickname? And is he gonna be good enough to have the nickname "The Law" without it being a joke?)
Quote:
New Orleans Hornets take a look at UNC's Tyler Hansbrough
Posted by Jimmy Smith, The Times-Picayune June 05, 2009 2:52PM
Four-time All-American and one-time college player of the year Tyler Hansbrough of the University of North Carolina was among the first eligible draft prospects to work for the New Orleans Hornets on Friday at the Alario Center and left Coach Byron Scott impressed.
"First of all, he is a power forward, he's a rugged, very intense, fierce competitor," Scott said. "He's a much better athlete than I think a lot of people give him credit for. He shoots the ball much better than people give him credit for. So I don't think it'll be a big-time transition period for him as far as adjustment to the NBA style. College is probably more physical than the NBA until you get to the playoffs. I don't think the adjustment is going to take that long."
Several mock drafts have Hansbrough, who led the Tar Heels to the national championship this season, going just before the 21st pick in the first round, where the Hornets are slotted to select.
There is some discussion that the Chicago Bulls, for whom Hansbrough has already worked, could pick him at No. 16.
Some scouts question Hansbrough's jump shooting ability, but he shot mid-ranged jumpers fairly consistently during that portion of the work out that was open to the media, though he struggled outside the NBA's 3-point shooting line.
I don't care if Chicago wants him @ 16, GD.
IF he's the BPA @ 15 then I hope we draft him.
I'm guessing he won't go higher than that, so it should be interesting.
i love the kid's heart and run-through-a-wall mentality. but there's no way i'd want to draft him with a 1st round pick regardless of where his stock says he should go.
he's a 2nd round talent with serious limitations on the court IMO. he can be a nice scrappy 10-12 minute guy but nothing more.
Please note:
What a sad, sad day for the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Scott
College more physical?
the have pussified the nba game, no doubt. but he's still going to be facing players way stronger and more athletic than him. if he gets blocked all the time in college, i can only imagine how much that'll happen in the nba.
maybe he'll surprise me. but i see him as a 9th or 10th man with a very limited ceiling.
Oh, I don't think that today's game works in his favour.
He'd probably be better off if it was the good ol' days.
Personally I don't want us to Draft him at #15. He might have the highest bball IQ in the world, the most mental toughness, the most determination, the most heart and the drive to excel but from all reports his physical limitations will hold him back.
Kind of like Maxiell. I seriously believe that if Max was the most driven person on the team he'd still be nothing more than a role player. His assets just aren't cut out for serious minutes IMO.
Nothing wrong with that - such is life. I only despise Maxiell because we passed on better players that have the ability to start and have long productive careers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DX
nba draft net is saying that jrue holiday is a guy we're thinking long and hard about at #15.
i like the kid. a lot. but only as a PG, not as a 2 guard. he's got a bit of rajon rondo in him with more strength...
Higher - did you see where DX has him Drafted?
IIRC Top 6!
And that's some harsh shit for Blair, Price and Carroll. Here's hoping they make the league and have enough coin to do something/anything about those conditions.
yeah he does go in the top 10 in most mocks. i guess the thinking is that somebody has to slip with all the PGs bunched together.
he probably goes top 10 but you never know. i'm not holding my breath.
Oh, I just thought you might not have seen DX's Draft.
How on Earth are the 2 "premier" sites so far apart on players?
It boggles my mind.
well this draft is part of the reason why. there are a couple of guys that inspire WIDE ranging opinions from scouts/prognosticators.
there's never a consensus on all the players- beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say. but this year above most is a year where a number of players are very hard to get a read on. and that leads to some teams falling in love with a guy or at least rating him a good bit higher than other teams.
it's a pretty sucky draft overall and there could definitely be a lot of busts from this class. but there is definite potential in 20 or so guys who could potentially have pretty good careers. the real question is, how many of them will realize their potential and how many will fall by the wayside....?