:motown owns:Quote:
Glenn, MoTown: The Spurs are so DONE.
David Thorpe: (12:54 PM ET ) Not yet. Had Manu been healthy, I still think they could have won the title.
Printable View
:motown owns:Quote:
Glenn, MoTown: The Spurs are so DONE.
David Thorpe: (12:54 PM ET ) Not yet. Had Manu been healthy, I still think they could have won the title.
Hmm. Wonder what he'd say when asked if the Pistons are done. Would he point to the C-Bill injury?
rogermason. they aint done:cogent:
They went from Michael Finley to Brent Barry to thinking they had Cory Maggette....and then they had to settle for Roger Mason.
Their gift string of quality free agents at bargain prices just got snapped.
If that isn't "done," I don't know what is.
i was trying to be sarcastic, guess it didnt work.
roger mason wasnt the answer to the spurs bench. neither was george hill at #26
They know.
Quote:
2 more depart Spurs front office in shake-up
Web Posted: 07/14/2008 09:35 PM CDT
By Travis E. Poling
Express-News
Two more executives have left Spurs Sports & Entertainment, a month after the sudden departure of Executive Vice President Russ Bookbinder.
The moves are part of an ongoing shake-up of the Spurs front office that could have more repercussions later this summer.
Bruce Guthrie, Spurs vice president, and Paula Winslow, vice president of human resources, left the organization that includes the NBA franchise, the WNBA's Silver Stars, hockey's Rampage and management of the AT&T Center.
Guthrie had been with the Spurs for 26 years. He started as an account executive and moved to director of marketing. He became a vice president in 1992.
Winslow joined the Spurs 15 years ago and saw her department expand as the company grew from 30 to 200 employees and hundreds of part-time workers.
Guthrie and Winslow could not be reached for comment Monday evening.
“Like most companies, there come times when you have to re-evaluate your operations,” said Leo Gomez, Spurs vice president of external affairs. “There's review of every organization just like we do with the team. Now we're doing it on the business side.”
Gomez wouldn't say if there will be more staff changes but said the review of operations was ongoing.
“We're continuing to review, and there's going to be reorganization,” Gomez said. News on those moves will come later in the offseason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN.com
I actually posted on here that I wanted to take him with our original 2nd rounder. But he seemed like a guy worth taking a flyer on, not using a 1st on.
If a rookie guard going 0/16 over two summer league games doesn't mean that you are DONE. then I don't know what does.
A rookie guard you are counting on too. I know Barry left. Udrich has been gone for a year. Is Vaughn still there? Who is their backup to Parker (not counting Manu who plays some point)?
roger mason
I wonder if Roger Mason Jr. will go by Roger Mason Sr. now because he's on the Spurs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross
I don't get it.
BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL OLDQuote:
Originally Posted by Fool
I know one thing, this thread will never be done. Christ.
someone needs to make Glenn a DONES sig. Similar to this (hopefully a better quality):
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...46156878_l.jpg
who is that surprising rookie PG they took in round 1? apparently they have real high hopes for him as parker's backup. i'll believe that when i see it.
See #288Quote:
Originally Posted by Higherwarrior
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Douche Baggins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledezma
Aw, yeah, you know what that means.Quote:
mike, austin, tx: What do you think of the spurs first picks, seems that they are very fundemental sound players, play hard, good defense geist, hill
David Thorpe: (12:05 PM ET ) Hill was, for the most part, awful. Were he an undrafted free agent, he'd be a lock for Europe now, and not that high a level.
NO LONGER DONE.
Quote:
Spurs sign Anthony Tolliver
SAN ANTONIO - The San Antonio Spurs announced today that they signed forward Anthony Tolliver. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed.
The 6-8, 240-pound Tolliver played on the Spurs summer league teams in Las Vegas and at the Rocky Mountain Revue in Salt Lake City. He averaged 12.3 points and 5.0 rebounds in 23.0 minutes while shooting .571 (12-21) from the field and .615 (8-13) from beyond the arc in three games in Las Vegas. At the Rocky Mountain Revue Tolliver appeared in all four games, averaging 11.5 points and 3.5 rebounds in 26.5 minutes while knocking down 53.3 percent (8-15) of his shots form beyond the arc.
Last season Tolliver played for the Iowa Energy in the NBA Development League. He appeared in 25 games averaging, 11.6 points and 6.4 rebounds in 27.4 minutes per game while shooting .509 (112-220) from the field. Prior to joining the Energy Tolliver was in training camp with Cleveland Cavaliers and appeared in three games before being waived.
Tolliver spent four seasons at Creighton University where he averaged 8.1 points and 4.9 rebounds in 124 career games. As a senior, he averaged 13.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.9 assists and 1.7 blocks in 33 games and was named first-team All-MVC after being the league’s only player to rank in the top 10 in scoring, rebounding and blocked shots per game. Tolliver was also named a Senior CLASS Award All-American and a Second-team CoSIDA Academic All-American.
j/k
DONE.
http://dberri.files.wordpress.com/20...naltitle20.jpg
Quote:
Will the Spurs Win in 2009?
August 21, 2008
When we look at past data - specifically past patterns in data — we often hope to glean insights into the future. For example, consider the following past pattern: The San Antonio Spurs won the NBA championship in 2003, 2005, and 2007. One doesn’t need to be a college professor to see what this pattern suggests about the future. Obviously the Spurs are destined to win the NBA title in 2009. In fact, we might as well skip the next season and get to the 2009-10 season.
And with that observation, my post on the Spurs should end. The data says clearly San Antonio is going to win in 2009. So what more needs to be said?
Of course, there is a tiny possibility that more could be said about this team.
Specifically, we could look at the productivity of the individual players and see if we can figure out why the Spurs declined in 2007-08 (other than just the fate of the San Antonio Spurs). And maybe we can even toss out a few thoughts on what this team is doing to win a title (other than just counting on past patterns to perfectly predict the future).
The Championship Spurs
The story of the Spurs decline begins with what happened in 2006-07. Two years ago the Spurs posted an efficiency differential (offensive efficiency minus defensive efficiency) of 9.1. That mark led the NBA in 2006-07, and was also the best differential in team history.
Such a differential translated into a 63.5 Wins Produced for the team, which also led the NBA (not surprising since Wins Produced is based on efficiency differential). When we move from the team’s Wins Produced to the individual players - as we do in Table One (re-printed from 2007) — we see which players were the primary producers of wins for this team two seasons ago.
Of the team’s 63.5 Wins Produced, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Brent Barry produced 51.9 (or 82%). Or to put it another way, everyone else on the Spurs produced fewer than 12 wins. So the productivity of the aforementioned quartet appears to be the driving force behind the team’s success.
The Spurs Decline
When we look at 2007-08, we see that the Spurs efficiency differential was only 5.25. As a consequence, the team’s Wins Produced fell to 53.6, or nearly 10 wins off the production the team offered in 2006-07. So although the team only won two fewer games last season (relative to the prior year), the Spurs were actually substantially worse.
Why did this team decline? Again, we turn to the performance of individual players.
As Table Two reveals, the combination of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and Barry only produced 43.7 wins last year. Much of this decline is not about players performing worse, but rather about players playing less. Specifically, it is about one particular player playing less. And that one particular player is Brent Barry.
To see this point, let’s look at the following numbers from Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker.
Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker in 2006-07: 44.4 Wins Produced
Duncan Ginobili, and Parker in 2007-08: 41.2 Wins Produced
Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker [2007-08 minutes, 2006-07 WP48]: 42.6 Wins Produced.
Now let’s look at Barry. In 2006-07 he produced 7.5 wins. Last season, in 1,077 fewer minutes - but with a very similar WP48 [Wins Produced per 48 minutes] — he only produced 2.5 wins. In other words, about 50% of the team’s decline in Wins Produced can be tied to Barry playing less.
Back in March I posted The Better Barry. This column noted that Brent Barry
- has produced nearly 100 wins in his career
- is easily the best Barry brother (topping Jon and Drew)
- is a more productive player than his hall-of-fame father (Rick)
Obviously this column highlighted the importance of Barry to San Antonio’s success. And I think it is Barry’s decline in minutes played - due to injury and trade - that played the biggest role in San Antonio’s decline.
The Spurs in 2008-09
Unfortunately for the Spurs 2009 title hopes, the Better Barry is going to be playing in Houston in 2008-09. This means the Spurs are going to need to find someone else to supplement the production of Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker.
Although I think there is hope in the front-court, I want to focus first on what the Spurs have done in the back-court. Specifically I want to comment briefly on the re-signing of Michael Finley and the acquisition of Roger Mason.
Let’s start with Finley. When we look at Finley’s career per-minute performance - specifically his WP48 - we see a player who is basically average. An average player posts a WP48 of 0.100. Finley’s career mark is 0.097. And this career matches the expected trajectory. He was below average his first two season. In six of the next seven seasons his WP48 surpassed the 0.100 mark (with a high of 0.145 in 1998-99). And then for his last four seasons, as he has gotten old, he has been below average.
Looking at the individual stats - in Table Three — we can see what Finley does well and where he has declined. For his career he is an above average scorer (in terms of both efficiency and totals), who limits his turnovers and personal fouls. Finley has also been able to get assists across his entire career. When we look at last season, though, we see that Finley has morphed into little more than a scorer. His rebounds, steals, blocked shots, and assists have all declined relative to his career averages. As a consequence, his Win Score - relative to both an average shooting guard and average small forward - is below par. So it doesn’t look like Finley is going to make much difference in the San Antonio’s drive to another title.
What about Mason? Like Finley, Mason is also above average with respect to shooting efficiency.
But Mason doesn’t do much else. Whether you call him a point guard or shooting guard, he is below average with respect to rebounds, steals, assists, and personal fouls. And like Finley, Mason doesn’t get to the line much either. So it seems unlikely that Finley or Mason can make up for the loss of Barry.
If we shift our focus off the back-court, though, we can find some reason for optimism. Fabricio Oberto’s 0.184 WP48 last season suggests that he is a capable fourth member of the Spurs leading quartet. In fact, I think the Spurs could win between 55 and 60 games next year (assuming no major injuries to Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and Oberto). Such a mark isn’t quite as good as the Wins Produced we saw in 2006-07. And it probably isn’t good enough to catch the Utah Jazz (who were quite good last year), the New Orleans Hornets (who I think will be even better next year), or the LA Lakers (who I still think are the favorites to win it all in 2009).
But the Spurs are good enough to give their fans hope. And fans of this team should enjoy this sense of hope while they can. Again, the key players are Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and now Oberto. Although Parker is only 26, the other three members of the quartet are now on the wrong side of 30. As we saw with Finley, age tends to lead to less production. With less production, San Antonio will eventually start to lose more frequently. And no amount of coaching or team attitude (something people often credit for the Spurs success) is going to change this fact.
- DJ
TRANSLATION?
DONEQuote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
Who cares?
Views: 12,229Quote:
Originally Posted by D's Nuts
That makes it the 3rd most viewed NBA thread here at WTF.
Even if 12,000 of those are me.
When's the last time the Spurs started off 0-3?
Remember when the Mavs started off 0-4 and then lost like one game in 68 tries, or something close to that.
Not just that, but they got destroyed on their home court to go 0-3.
Imagine if that was the Pistons that we were talking about.
Paker and TD are doing fine (and Mason is helping nicely). Everyone else is garbage:
KT 1-7, Udoka 3-13, Bonner 5-16, Oberto 2 points
Horryless SA will seriously be in the Dice deal if he comes available.
'76 or something...Quote:
Originally Posted by MoTown
theyre done (until ginobilli comes back, then everyone will be all 'OMG HERE COME THE SPURS' - and then they lose in 1st or 2nd round to lakers/hornets.
Theyre done... Definitely one of the worst teams after their top 3.
I'm marking them down right now as being this year's addition to the Western Conference Playoff Choke Artist list. Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, say hello to San Antonio.
TP rolled his ankle and will be out for awhile.
Stick a fork in them.
DONE.
So is anyone else worried that the Spurs are going to have an injury plagued season, bad luck everywhere and missed opportunities... thus cementing their position as the best team in basketball for the next ten years?
This is exactly how the Spurs got good in the first place - David Robinson gets hurt and they win the draft lottery which turns out to be Duncan.
It's going to happen again this year, just to piss Glenn off.
I'm not worried, the big three are (or soon will be) all starting to decline, health-wise.
All that flopping around is finally catching up to them.
They'll still limp into the playoffs with this group so no worries on getting the next TD IMO. Eventually they'll end up in the lotto (when TD is washed up), but all it takes is a great FA signing (like Brand in Philly) to put them back in the picture at that point. I don't see them being #1 pick bad though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoTown